E90 versus N800 - Nokia as own competitors ???

[Fidibus]

http://www.symbianwatch.com/nokia-e61i-e65-and-e90-communicator.html

http://www.carrypad.com/journal/2006/12/e90-communicator-800-wide-screen-umpc.html

http://www.symbianwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/e90.jpg

[andymulhearn]

From my experience with the N70 and others with the other Series 60 based machines, I'd hardly call it competition. Embarassment perhaps, competition no.

[SD69]

From my experience with the N70 and others with the other Series 60 based machines, I'd hardly call it competition. Embarassment perhaps, competition no.The Eseries and the Nokia Communicators are defined by more than Series60. Although I have to say wrt the email apps, you've got it backwards, the latest series60v3 devices have a BETTER email app than the 770.

As to the rumored E90 Series60 Communicator, who knows it could be competition, but I think only for those users who don't want to carry both a cellphone and an internet tablet. The historical hindrance to the Communicators was the size. Now that they have gotten a little smaller, WiFi included, and the qwerty form factor has become popular with some users, who knows.

[andymulhearn]

The Eseries and the Nokia Communicators are defined by more than Series60. Although I have to say wrt the email apps, you've got it backwards, the latest series60v3 devices have a BETTER email app than the 770.

Well I never mentioned the email app but I'll give you that.

On the rest, the N70 S60 is junk. It may be better on other devices but no one I know who had a N70 or 73 is still using it; mainly because doing things like making and receiving calls seemed to be beyond them.

And the rep I spoke to today when I was looking at replacing my current phone with something with 3G suggested the 6233 was still plagues with problems.

As to the rumored E90 Series60 Communicator, who knows it could be competition, but I think only for those users who don't want to carry both a cellphone and an internet tablet. The historical hindrance to the Communicators was the size. Now that they have gotten a little smaller, WiFi included, and the qwerty form factor has become popular with some users, who knows.

I think the S60 devices have a lot of work to do to catch up with the N800 when it comes to responsiveness but then I admit I am basing that view on a small sample.

[SD69]

Well, the N73 is a decent phone. But getting back on topic, neither the N73 or any of these phones is a competitor to the N800. The E90 may be a competitor though, as it is MUCH different than any other Nokia phone. If the hardware is boosted, it is likely to run faster than the current Series60.

[sebastian.linux]

I'm currently using N80 3G-phone (that is S60v3) and it's tremendous. It's simply great. It responds simply perfectly. I haven't still got any little problem with it. Smooth, always.

Nevertheless I also use N770, because N770 actually IS a computer, and N80 is ALMOST a computer (with Java, Basic and Python interpreters, SSH and Telnet clients, besides media players and office applications, and so many others Symbian applications). LINUX deserves the N770, but N80 is just cool...

Salut.
Sebas.

[badger]

The e90 and n800 are for different target markets. (The images are wrong :))

Also the e90, when it is announced has a far higher spec than the n800, it includes 3.6mbs HSDPA & GPS & & & & & not to mention that it is a traditional gsm phone.

There is only less than a week to wait for the beast that is the n90 ;)

[SD69]

There is only less than a week to wait for the beast that is the n90 ;) do you mean n90 or e90?

[Chas McG]

I have a 770, an 800, and an E70, so I have a pretty good perspective. And from that perspective, the proposed E90 will be less powerful, less fun, and a good deal more productive than the 800.

Why? Well, after a year of Maemo development, the built-in email program on the 800 is useless with IMAP. The version of Opera is so quirky that the forums generally recommend Minimo -- but Minimo is so unfinished that a single button press can blow up the whole app. Installing software is much easier with repositories, but the forums are still full of users finding "x component not found" error messages. And I've spent days trying to load SdictReader dictionaries, but can never get the dictionaries to show more than a truncated word list. And then there's the whole "it's not a PDA, so we're not going to include decent contact or calendar software" thread, or the challenges of the handwriting recognition, or...

The E70 has a small screen, a relatively slow UI, and limited-to-non-existent video capabilities. Yet day to day, that's the tool I rely on. It has Wi-Fi and 3G/EDGE, so I always have a connection. The email works acceptably well with my office IMAP server. The browser is ok for on-the-fly browsing, which is what I need it for, and Opera Mini is an even better alternative. It syncs nicely with my Mac. Dictionary software is available from reputable sources, like Collins and Oxford. And the keyboard, while mainly limited to thumbs, is still far better than the 800's on-screen version.

Don't get me wrong -- I love the screen on the 800, and the speed, and I love playing around with it, but for every day use, the E70 works, while, more often than not, the 800 doesn't.

I think Walter Mossberg's review from last year still holds true -- the 800 is a marvelous piece of software that is held back by unfinished software.

As usual, this is an opinion, so I'm sure many of you have wildly divergent views :)

Charlie

[Chas McG]

um... should of course be "a marvelous piece of HARDWARE..."

:rolleyes:

[sebastian.linux]

Why? Well, after a year of Maemo development, the built-in email program on the 800 is useless with IMAP.
Why's that? I'm currently using the native email program on the 770 with POP3, and it works fine. Is it different on the 800 or with IMAP?

The version of Opera is so quirky that the forums generally recommend Minimo -- but Minimo is so unfinished that a single button press can blow up the whole app.
It's true that MiniMo hangs a lot. But I'm fully satisfied with the native (Opera-based) browser on my 770 (I suppose it's very similar to that on 880). I think that it was really enhanced with ITOS ver.49-2


Installing software is much easier with repositories, but the forums are still full of users finding "x component not found" error messages.
That's because of not having a complete list of repositories. I think this link could momentarily help those users:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4456

And then there's the whole "it's not a PDA, so we're not going to include decent contact or calendar software" thread, or the challenges of the handwriting recognition, or...
I find GPE-calendar useful as well as the contact native software.

About the handwriting recognition... I prefer to use directly my fingers. When you rab the screen, a big enough virtual keyboard full screen opens up.

Don't get me wrong -- I love the screen on the 800, and the speed, and I love playing around with it, but for every day use, the E70 works, while, more often than not, the 800 doesn't.
At this point I completely agree with you. I rely more on the always-working-perfect software of my little N80 than on that of the 770. But it's what the linux thing is about.

There also are some advantages with the 770. Besides the wider screen, there's an application: OCTAVE (a free version of MatLab), that would be almost impossible to find in any other device. There are other advantages, like NMAP, or KISMET, and other NET tools, that you'll hardly find in Symbian or non-Linux devices. With 770 you're even able to recompile the kernel (what other "PDA" is able to do that?). I mean that with 770 you have COMPLETE CONTROL over the machine (that's also the linux thing again). That deserves a little bit of weird behaviour in some apps, I think. The premium is that you really have a mini-LAPTOP. With all that implies: good or bad.

With an N80 you have what you have (and it's really very GOOD). With an N770 the limit is your imagination...


I think Walter Mossberg's review from last year still holds true -- the 800 is a marvelous piece of hardware that is held back by unfinished software.
Surely I think it's partly true. But it's the linux thing again all about.

Salut.
Sebas.

[Milhouse]

First E90 pictures... http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/09/nokias-e90-communicator-first-pics/

The 800x352 internal screen isn't a touchscreen :( - unofficial "review" here (http://www.whatmobile.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=412817#412817).

I understand the E90 *will* have built-in GPS, so take the Engadget specs with a pinch of salt, they're not the most reliable source at the best of times.

[rr0123]

That looks promising, even without the touchscreen, so long as it has a way to quickly scroll through links.

[Karel Jansens]

Is it running Series 80? I never liked it, although it's the closest a modern PDA comes to the old Psion Series 3XX. It's probably that, after my 5MX, I got spoiled with touch screens.

[badger]

The e90 run "s60 version 3 feature pack 2" s80 has been dead for sometime now.

[Milhouse]

The E90 seems to be destined to use feature pack 1 not feature pack 2, which is odd as FP2 has just been released and the e90 isn't going to be available for another few months.

[Karel Jansens]

The e90 run "s60 version 3 feature pack 2" s80 has been dead for sometime now.

OK. I don't know much about S60 (being a UIQ man myself :cool: ). Isn't the ill-fated S90 mainly what was incorporated in that version?

[andras]

As someone who uses a 9300 as their daily phone, and also has a 770 and an 800, I have to say that I can't wait for the e90. Granted, I'm a gadget freak - my list of daily phones going backwards is: 9300, 6682, HTC Wizard (Cingular 8125), Blackberry (don't remember the model), 9500, Sony 910, then it gets a bit fuzzy. Add to that the 800, 770, Sony Mylo, various iPaqs, palms, etc, and you get the idea.

Anyway, I have to say that for straight productivity in a mobile environment, using my normal tasks as a benchmark for productivity, the 9300 is hard to beat. Its messaging app (my most used tool) simply blows away anything that I can find for the tablets. The ability to easily manage several accounts, using IMAP, is truly a godsend. The next feature that I use on a regular basis is actually the phone portion of the device (3 to 4 hours a day on the mobile is the norm, with 5 to 6 not being unusual - and that's just for work). From there the phone devices go a bit downhill. Internet access, used for some web browsing, SSH, Telnet and VPN are the next in line application wise. The 9300 can handle most of those fairly well, but the s80 platform and anemic processor leave a bit to be desired when online.

On the other hand, having access to a Tablet, with the addition of some minor software packages, allows me much greater ease of use once I get the the Internet access portion of my tasks. Being able to connect to either my handset or a WiFi access point and handle the tasks I need to deal with is great. The browsers on the tablet (any flavor) really do blow away the phone based browsers. The fact that I have unix underpinnings and basic apps is great.

But, even though I usually have both the 9300 and the 770 (the 800 is only a couple of days old and I haven't had a chance to play with it much but I have high hopes for it) near me when I'm out and about, the Communicator is still the device that I go to for most tasks. The 770 is what I go to for either Web browsing or fun. And I anticipate that will remain the same for a while, hence my excitement over getting an e90. I can't wait. Paired together with my 800, I think that I'll have a great combination of tools for my daily work.

[SD69]

The E90 is quite impressive. It actually is going to allow people to duplicate 90% of laptop functionality in a handheld device, plus HSDPA. I think it competes more with an OQO or UMPC than the N800. This may also explain why Nokia took the internet tablet the way of the enthusiast N series.

[cintra]

There is an excellent review of the E90 (probably my next purchase..) here http://tinyurl.com/yvsep5

mvh

[Seb Per]

Which ever way you take it: you don't take either the N800 or the E90 on the beach or skiing, or clubbing. Whereas you still need a small, light phone in those precious moments (would it be to call a cab).

Which means that you have to leave your dear device at home /office. If you belong to these families of clients that can't get 2 sim cards for the same number, then why not take the N800 and a small 3G phone with HSDPA and decent camera.
Otherwise, you have to get 2 phones (the E90 and whateverelse). The total price gets high...

Of course and this is where the problem arises: IF you can you use the N800 for minimum business applications (PIM etc, there is a 10 mile long thread on this).

So in a way yes the N800 would become a competitor to the E90.

[geneven]

For me, the fact that the N800 isn't a phone is a selling point, because I don't want a monthly charge and I already have an emergency cellphone anyway. People say they can't get useful work done on the N800, but I have had several jobs that depended heavily on reading web pages and sending email. I can do them just fine with my N800.