Is silent mode really silent. [Archive] - maemo.org

sachin007

2010-02-25, 16:23

Yesterday in class i got bored and opened a youtube video.... considering that the phone was already in silent mode. But to my horror the audio blared in full volume and everyone looked at me.... so i had to rush out of the class.

So how to get full silent mode when we put it on silent? I know reducing the volume on the status bar is one way.... but i thought silent mode was supposed to be completely silent.

Is this a bug or a feature request?

Thanks

torpedo48

2010-02-25, 16:28

Yours is basically a feature request, since there are many apps that can't output any sound while in silent mode and that is considered a bug (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6694).

You can file an enhancement request in Bugzilla for adding a "complete silent profile", but it will be INVALID IMO :)

R.Habrat

2010-02-25, 16:37

Incoming e-mail is also signalled by sound in "silent" mode.

ToJa92

2010-02-25, 16:38

I think silent mode means that all kinds of ringtones(as in when someones ringing) are inactivated, not system-wide silence. For that you have to slide the volume to 0(in the status bar). It's probably up to each app to detect if silent mode is activated and output sound accordingly..

torpedo48

2010-02-25, 16:39

Incoming e-mail is also signalled by sound in "silent" mode.

This is not true, at least it has never happened to me. Regarding system notifications and most of its not-multimedial apps, silent profile is a true silent profile.

Matan

2010-02-25, 16:42

mplayer is also silent in silent mode.

slender

2010-02-25, 16:47

So I think that for silent profile it should set volume also down. It would make sense. Silent is mute not half mute.

R.Habrat

2010-02-25, 17:02

torpedo48: "This is not true, at least it has never happened to me."

To be precise, you have never noticed the sound of incoming e-mail in silent mode.

I have noticed it many times.

Pfuh3z

2010-02-25, 17:35

torpedo48: "This is not true, at least it has never happened to me."

To be precise, you have never noticed the sound of incoming e-mail in silent mode.

I have noticed it many times.

That's odd... I've never experienced that. My phone has never made a sound when it received an email while in silent mode. And it receives quite some emails in this mode on average... I just tested it out by putting it in silent and awaiting some mails, when it received them it vibrated but never made a sound.
(I also checked my "general volume" - the one that's modified by the volume keys - and it's somewhere half way, so that can't be the reason it's silent either...). In my experience too the phone really is silent for system notifications when it's put in 'silent' mode (but not in games or most multimedia apps, for example).

Dries

ysss

2010-02-25, 17:38

Most other smartphones completely silence the device in this mode. Optionally passes some types of sound to vibrate (alarms, ringtones, system warnings).

This behavior makes more sense, as you want the profile to control your device depending on the (real life) situation you're in; not just the phone portion of your device.

Silence = cinema, shows, meetings, etc.

fatalsaint

2010-02-25, 17:41

It also apparently silences pianobar ('http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=543778#post543778').

Since mplayer and pianobar silence with silence mode it's gotta be setting a system volume down.. but the official media player apps such as Youtube and Music use a different volume area that gets around the "silencing".

I guess the logic would be that if you open a Media App, whether in silent mode or not, you probably want to listen to media?

This makes me curious where the sound output levels are stored..

Pfuh3z

2010-02-25, 17:52

I agree with that, but at the same time I think that at this point (for me) it's not bad at all how the silent mode works. My phone is silent for all the things I can't control (for instance I don't know when I might get a phone call, receive a text, ...) so if I put it in silent mode, none of these things would bother me (whether you're in a meeting or in class or whatever). What's NOT silenced by the silent mode are all (or so it seems to me) user initiated actions. If you start watching a youtube video, start playing music, ... it's something you start yourself, so you can anticipate it.
I think it would be best to have the option for a "semi silent mode" like the current silent mode, and a "full silent mode" like you guys suggest. For instance I might want to play a song or present a movie in class, but I don't want the sound of a text message disturbing this, in this situation the current silent mode would be just fine.

That's also why I think it's probably a "feature request" and not a bug :)

ysss

2010-02-25, 17:58

You can't always know when/how a program would make audible output, especially when you're trying out new programs or going to new sites, or even if a site that you're on pops up an audible advertisement.

Yes, you can say 'but this is your own initiated actions, you should know blah blah blah'. So it all goes back to the primary reason that the silence mode is there. What is it for?

The common usage is to ensure that your device is silenced for the situation/event that you're about to enter:
- meetings
- shows/cinemas
- churches, wakes, etc

The 'normal' behavior of silenced profile in this situation is to:
- silence ALL audio via speakers out
- outputs the sound via earphones normally
- optionally offers vibration feedback for 'important' events (call/sms ringtones, alarms, system warnings).

Psy-Clone

2010-02-25, 18:11

hmm.. interesting point I think.. this happened to me accidently in work. I had silent profile activated, and I have a media player widget on one of my desktops. - Through accidental tapping of th play button whilst trying to chnage dekstops, it started blaring full volume music out.. Was very surprising, and forced me to panic (not knowing the phone well yet) and turn it off!

I would be interested in a mod to maybe allow complete silence - could this be done? I know theres a mod for more profiles.. so could this maybe be enhanced to include this?

Dancairo

2010-02-25, 18:26

I'm glad i stumbled on this thread!!! I'm an actor and you should see the faces of directors when someone's phone goes off during a rehearsal! I've even seen one well known film/theatre actor throw someone's phone across the room! So Thanks :-)...mind you, if he tried that with my N900 i'd chin him.

donsaibot

2010-02-25, 18:44

Except for the Music Player my device doesn't make any sounds in Silent Mode. Even Games (Angry Birds, Scummvm) don't play sounds.

Psy-Clone

2010-02-25, 18:50

Except for the Music Player my device doesn't make any sounds in Silent Mode. Even Games (Angry Birds, Scummvm) don't play sounds.

Yeah, but the music player, and websites will.. Im concerned about them.. Im not completely used to the phone yet, and have often found it browsing the net from my pocket (i tend to just put it in my pocket after sliding it closed.. which doesnt lock it (so it seems anyway))..

In this state, it could find its way onto youtube (which I have as a desktop shortcut), or play music from the widget on th desktop..

I fel that, although not everyone would want it, I and im sure some others would love something they could 'rely' on to make the phone completely silent, no matter wat.. :)

rivierakid

2010-02-25, 18:52

torpedo48: "This is not true, at least it has never happened to me."

To be precise, you have never noticed the sound of incoming e-mail in silent mode.

I have noticed it many times.

I personally can say with 100% certainty that I experience no system sounds when the silent profile is activated. The phone does however vibrate, as it should when emails or SMS' are received. I've also just tested, and Youtube does in fact play sound while in silent mode, though I can't say I've noticed any other apps play sound while in silent.

In my opinion, silent mode should be a global mute/unmute button. It's plain ridiculous to activate what most people would assume is a mute, and then have it not enforced by the system. It's even more egregious that this is how every phone has worked since forever.

I think the devs are wrong - you are setting the phone to silent mode, not just system sounds.

Alarms however, do override the silent mode - again, it's an alarm so I think it's right that it should.

ysss

2010-02-25, 18:57

@rivierakid: you'd want the alarms to sound, until you make use of repeating alarms to remind you of recurring events. AFAIK no other phones make any pips when they're put in SILENT mode. They may convert those alarms to vibration, but not sound...

From a design viewpoint and compliance (to existing practice and common sense), I'd say the SILENT mode shouldn't make any unannounced exceptions. Any exceptions should be optionally and manually set by the users from the profile settings..

Then again, the N900 is a mobile computer FIRST...

Psy-Clone

2010-02-25, 18:59

I personally can say with 100% certainty that I experience no system sounds when the silent profile is activated. The phone does however vibrate, as it should when emails or SMS' are received. I've also just tested, and Youtube does in fact play sound while in silent mode, though I can't say I've noticed any other apps play sound while in silent.

In my opinion, silent mode should be a global mute/unmute button. It's plain ridiculous to activate what most people would assume is a mute, and then have it not enforced by the system. It's even more egregious that this is how every phone has worked since forever.

I think the devs are wrong - you are setting the phone to silent mode, not just system sounds.

Alarms however, do override the silent mode - again, it's an alarm so I think it's right that it should.

- Thing is, I can also see a need for having some things with volume ven though its on silent.. so I guess really, we need an other profile. Make th silent one SILENT, and create a new one fo silent systm sounds only..

velox

2010-02-25, 19:10

I have put the following into my /etc/systemui/systemui.xml after seeing this thread to add a 'Shut Up.' command to the power buttons menu. It might reduce the touchscreen-awkwardness when everybody is looking at me trying to silence my phone ;)

<menuitem priority="600" name="Shut Up.">
<callback service="com.nokia.xterm" path="/com/nokia/xterm" interface="com.nokia.xterm" method="run_command" bus="session" autostart="true">
<argument type="string">/usr/bin/amixer set Master 0%</argument>
</callback>
</menuitem>

It's not very fast and also leaves an XTerminal window open.
That's because I am way to tired to (have the desire to try to) figure out how to translate this (http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showpost.php?p=508115&postcount=3) to the format used in the xml.
I think I'll keep it in there for now, though, so it might be of use to someone else as well...

Obligatory word of caution for non-powerusers:
Editing your system files is dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. You might brick your device, quite badly. Also, you need to be root to do this. (If you didn't know that, don't do it :) )

LondonBenji

2010-02-25, 19:13

Yeah the YouTube one has got me a couple of times, quite embarrassing, though I'd guess far less embarrassing than if it was youpo...... well anyway.

slender

2010-02-25, 19:24

This is really embarrassing on behalf of maemo developers. Should we make bug report or maybe have a little brainstorm session about what is the right thing to do (even we know how all the other phones and devices work but lets have a nice little chat about principles and many many different point of views from developers and lots of conversation.....saatanan tunarit (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uy4vuBbsXMk/SrJWMV1PcbI/AAAAAAAABzE/6bEUvCM2nRE/s320/urho+kekkonen.bmp)*) :P

*Ignore this, Stupid finnish joke.

tape_ape

2010-02-25, 19:38

to add an additional wrinkle to this discussion, i would like a mode where im and email (4 + 2) notifications are silent but the phone would still ring. this is so i could have the fone on the bedside table and be woken only by fone calls.