Brief status of "MeeGo to N900" project

[vielfrass]

fresh news from [MeeGo-dev]@meego.com
:D

Hello MeeGos !

This is brief status update of "MeeGo to N900" project. This project is currently running as Nokia project, and I am Nokia project lead for it. The current closed mode of development is not the target for us at all, but rather transitional condition. As already discussed by Valtteri in TSG meeting, we are looking into going more open mode shortly. One reason why we have done this on this way is that at the same time we have been trying to handle opening of many currenly closed components that are needed in MeeGo and to build feasible MeeGo images for N900.

However, a lot of related work is already done completely open, you can find more info from places like ofono.org, connman.net and meego.gitorious.org . So if you are eager to contribute or want to closely follow whats happening, please work on those.

As you know, we have delivered working MeeGo images for N900 as part of first code drop in the end of March. At that state we were using older kernel version on N900 than on Atom side, as we used the same kernel (.28) than what is used in Maemo 5 based products today. We ended up doing that simply because lack of time to contribute and port all the drivers to the newer kernels.

Now, for the upcoming May release of MeeGo, we are going to use the same kernel version (.33) than Atom based devices are using. For that we need to submit number of ARM-architecture patches to MeeGo as well, because many of the required ones have just been contibuted upstream kernel and were not available in .33 version originally.

We have already enabled most of the main drivers, like LCD, GFX, Wlan and BT. Still, there is a lot to do in order to enable .33 on N900, like audio drivers, and modem subsystem including SSI buss driver, modem data and audio drivers etc. Our adaptation guys are in fact contributing those modem subsystem related drivers as we speak, and if you are following kernel mailing lists you can see how that goes on.

Besides of enabling the new kernel, we are working with number of smaller and bigger issues for N900. Starting from the beginning, we are now based on ARMv7 combiled code, so the code should be better optimised for N900 now. ARMv5 compilation that was in use for code drop will still be there, and it also seems to be used at least by community project that is planning to release MeeGo for good old N810 tablets ;)

Also, we are planning to enable dual booting of Maemo 5 and MeeGo for the upcoming release. So that will be offered as 3rd way to setup MeeGo to N900, including the existing "native" MeeGo only on N900 and chroot based MeeGo on Maemo 5 setups. Taking the dual boot mode into use likely includes upgrade to Maemo5 kernel as well, but that should not be big issue in the process of enabling that.

As I don't want to go ahead of others working on MeeGo architecture and other issues I will stop now, but I will report again when we have more to tell about the subject.

Br,
// Harri

---------------------
copied from the [MeeGo-dev] list

Max

[Texrat]

Thanks for posting Harri's email here Max!

corrected ;)

[me2000]

I saw this on the mailing list too. Great information from Nokia.

I gave them a standing ovation on the list.

[vielfrass]

Thanks for posting here Harri!

Sorry for not making it clear:
I just copied that from the meego developer mailing list.

Max

[Venemo]

So, this is the end of the FUD about the MeeGo on the N900 scheme, then? :)

[bugelrex]

Great news! I just hope this team survives any layoffs that might occur because of the stock being hammered today.

At the end of the day, the share holders own Nokia and they will demand blood today's stock drop!

[sjgadsby]

So, this is the end of the FUD about the MeeGo on the N900 scheme, then?

I was unable to attend this week's meeting. Will this project eventually bring Nokia's own (Harmattan) MeeGo UX and applications (Ovi Maps, etc.) to the N900 or is this project for the reference MeeGo handheld UX?

[Stskeeps]

I was unable to attend this week's meeting. Will this project eventually bring Nokia's own (Harmattan) MeeGo UX and applications (Ovi Maps, etc.) to the N900 or is this project for the reference MeeGo handheld UX?

I think it's closer to the definition of a hardware adaptation team. You need that to work before you bring in the fun things. I have no idea if Nokia will do that.

What is happening is that Nokia's actively upstreaming the patches for the N900 and maintaining a hardware adaptation. Isn't this great?

[twoboxen]

Taking the dual boot mode into use likely includes upgrade to Maemo5 kernel as well, but that should not be big issue in the process of enabling that.

Is there any way that this can be done and still allow custom kernels (e.g. titan's)??

Thanks for the update, too. Actively engaging your community early and often will definitely benefit both your users and your team. (see any PR1.2 thread for a counter-example).

[wmarone]

Is there any way that this can be done and still allow custom kernels (e.g. titan's)?

Undoubtedly, since the source for the kernel will be available.

[Stskeeps]

Is there any way that this can be done and still allow custom kernels (e.g. titan's)??

Thanks for the update, too. Actively engaging your community early and often will definitely benefit both your users and your team. (see any PR1.2 thread for a counter-example).

Part of the patches that was published was kexec patches, which is already in titan's kernel. That'd be the sanest method for dual-booting other kernels.

[Texrat]

I was unable to attend this week's meeting.

Wasn't this week's meeting postponed anyway?

[Stskeeps]

Wasn't this week's meeting postponed anyway?

No, that was last week's, due to LFcollab.

Minutes at http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-04-21-18.58.html - check the logs too, a quite interesting discussion about openness.

[fatalsaint]

Is there any way that this can be done and still allow custom kernels (e.g. titan's)??

Thanks for the update, too. Actively engaging your community early and often will definitely benefit both your users and your team. (see any PR1.2 thread for a counter-example).

As an addition to this: I just really hope the "new" kernels contain the necessary NAT support for things like WiFi Hotspotting. (unless that's already been worked around and my information is outdated... I still have a lot of unread stuff over the past month or so.)

[sjgadsby]

I think it's closer to the definition of a hardware adaptation team. You need that to work before you bring in the fun things.

Understood, and I do not want to give the impression that I'm anything but thrilled by this announcement and the work that is underway. Thank you, Nokia! Thank you, everyone working on this project!

What is happening is that Nokia's actively upstreaming the patches for the N900 and maintaining a hardware adaptation. Isn't this great?

Yes!

I simply foresee this news being read by many as "Harmattan is coming to the N900". Then, later, if Nokia doesn't provide the Harmattan UX and proprietary applications for MeeGo on the N900, I can see angry cries of "Nokia lied to us!"

I just wanted to know if Nokia has as yet clarified their intentions as to the UX layer and applications. If they haven't, that's understandable. If they have, then I'd like to know so I'm able to supply the correct information when questions arise.

Either way, I'm very, very happy about this project.

[cjp]

That was an interesting read. Thank you!

Sounds like there are plans to enable MeeGo for Maemo5 after all, and with double boot and everything! I'm impressed!

[me2000]

As an addition to this: I just really hope the "new" kernels contain the necessary NAT support for things like WiFi Hotspotting. (unless that's already been worked around and my information is outdated... I still have a lot of unread stuff over the past month or so.)

What does Harri mean by the "atom", .28 and .33 kernel references ? How are these related to the PC based kernels ?

What is the full version number and name of these kernels ?

Do they build the same ? Can one enable the same kernel options ?

Thanks

[russo_br]

I just wanted to know if Nokia has as yet clarified their intentions as to the UX layer and applications. If they haven't, that's understandable. If they have, then I'd like to know so I'm able to supply the correct information when questions arise.


All the clues indicates that Nokia has made a decision whether to support Meego on N900 officially or not. @qgil even told that users could decide to stay on Maemo or upgrade to Meego, but I agree with you that there should be a clear statement since the information now is all spread through this forum and Meego mailing lists. A couple of days ago I checked the wiki about "What we can realistic expect from Meego on N900" and there was no update regarding this Meego to N900 project.

[johnel]

....As already discussed by Valtteri in TSG meeting, we are looking into going more open mode shortly. One reason why we have done this on this way is that at the same time we have been trying to handle opening of many currenly closed components that are needed in MeeGo and to build feasible MeeGo images for N900.
...
Max

This is great news and thanks for posting the status here.

Just one question. When you talk about opening closed components are we talking about stuff like functionality of the phone app and battery management?

With this kind of commitment hopefully we will be rewarded with an open and active platform.

I think Nokia have earned major brownie points with this.

Now I am excited.

Definitely time for cake.

[harrihakulinen]

All the clues indicates that Nokia has made a decision whether to support Meego on N900 officially or not. @qgil even told that users could decide to stay on Maemo or upgrade to Meego, but I agree with you that there should be a clear statement since the information now is all spread through this forum and Meego mailing lists. A couple of days ago I checked the wiki about "What we can realistic expect from Meego on N900" and there was no update regarding this Meego to N900 project.

Looks like I should have been little bit more specific. I did not announce any new activity, we are still talking about the same project that we announced way back, see

http://wiki.maemo.org/What_can_we_realistically_expect#The_MeeGo_project _has_announced_support_for_the_N900.__What_does_it _really_mean_for_my_N900_.3F

Please remember that MeeGo is about open source os, and product decisions for Nokia will be made by another people / scope.

Personally I feel that it is too early now to talk about MeeGo as productized platform for N900.

Br,
//Harri

[Crashdamage]

...I did not announce any new activity, we are still talking about the same project that we announced way back...I feel that it is too early now to talk about MeeGo as productized platform for N900.
Exactly. I didn't read into this that there was any decisions or commitments made beyond what's been said before. Still, it's nice to get an update that lets us know that work is progressing and just what that work is. Thanks!

[agogo]

you made my day :D

[ZShakespeare]

This is fantastic news.

I don't see why everyone is concerned about a "productized" version of meego on the N900. We don't have any sort of OVI services that work with the n900, and if the reference apps that are provided by the base meego distribution are any less functional than the ones we have now they would be unusable. I don't see how a vanilla smartphone OS could do any less and expect to compete with the likes of Android and iPhone.

[No1cromo]

I was just thinking yesterday "i wonder when nokia are gonna speak up about MeeGo" it's been intel with most of the, well, intel recently.

Thanks Nokia.

[nMIK-3]

Great news but for me its still not 100% clear if the official N900 MeeGo release will be Nokia branded. Meaning that will include all the Nokia services and Ovi ecosystem.

For example is great to have MeeGo officially on the N900 but for a true Nokia user it will be a pain to have it without Ovi Maps, Ovi Contacts, Ovi Sync and the rest of the Nokia services.

But even if thats the case we will finally get portrait mode for the whole thing, MMS hopefully a decent call log and more other goodies :)

I guess time will tell how this will turned out to be.

[Laughing Man]

I wonder if Nokia will seperate the Ovi store and Ovi Maps from the Meego OS (or if they will only bundle it with their Meego provided devices). It would be a great tool to leverage users if they had a QT based version of Ovi Maps running on any Meego device.

Especially since Nokia seems like they want to join in on what Apple and Google are doing now (ads and location based services).

[ZShakespeare]

It seems unlikely to me that Nokia would bundle any Ovi services with MeeGo as manufacturers other than Nokia will be deploying it. It's more likely that each manufacturer will need to implement their own replacements.

I wouldn't be suprised if MeeGo had it's own maps, and Intel has it's own store. I would be suprised if these vanilla meego apps didn't measure up to the current Nokia ones.

[vkv.raju]

It seems unlikely to me that Nokia would bundle any Ovi services with MeeGo as manufacturers other than Nokia will be deploying it. It's more likely that each manufacturer will need to implement their own replacements.

I wouldn't be suprised if MeeGo had it's own maps, and Intel has it's own store. I would be suprised if these vanilla meego apps didn't measure up to the current Nokia ones.

MeeGo is open to all. Various manufacturers would be able to put their own suite/software bundle on top of MeeGo and distribute it through their plethora of devices.

For instance, Nokia's brand of MeeGo which might include the Ovi suite and stuff could be possibly called the Harmattan.

It is definitely likely and very much possible that Nokia would include their Ovi softwares on top of MeeGo for IT'S devices. The real question is "but what and when"?

[buurmas]

Please remember that MeeGo is about open source os, and product decisions for Nokia will be made by another people / scope.
I'm pretty sure that people will NOT remember this, and every announcement that doesn't reiterate this &/or make it clear that we're not exactly talking about Nokia's Harmattan will get confused responses. The nature of MeeGo and the MeeGo brand is still pretty confusing.

[buurmas]

ARMv5 compilation that was in use for code drop will still be there, and it also seems to be used at least by community project that is planning to release MeeGo for good old N810 tablets ;)
Hey, this was news to me! This is very exciting!

[daperl]

I think we might have a new Nokia motto:

Speak rarely and carry a big stick.

Or if that's too boring, how about:

Speak rarely and swing a big...

Great news.

[twaelti]

if the reference apps that are provided by the base meego distribution are any less functional than the ones we have now they would be unusable.
:D this one is timeless.

[Kajko]

Like I said in the other thread. This is awesome news.

I'm liking my N900 even more and more every day.

Thank you!

[thelushlife]

DAMN! and i thought i could switch to the dell lightning in Q4 2010!

great news, the n900 is becoming less of a faceless device and more of a passion each and every day!

[qole]

I hope they slap a desktop environment on there as a placeholder until the official UIs are finished. I suggest LXDE; it is the one we use from Debian and it is lightweight enough for handhelds, and it also works nicely on netbooks.

Is there a lightweight QT-based desktop environment out there? Or is there only KDE?

[fatalsaint]

Is there a lightweight QT-based desktop environment out there? Or is there only KDE?

I just found this ('http://qt-apps.org/content/show.php/Antico?content=93778') (main site ('http://www.antico.netsons.org/index.html')).. maybe that could work?

[qgil]

The MeeGo project is putting every single minute in the trunk tasks e.g. releasing the Handset UX.

However, there is probably nothing stopping you from going for an unofficial MeeGo UX category "Netbook in Handset UX" ;)

[DoctorA]

I am just noob but seems future may become more interesting:

http://maemoarena.com/2010/03/meego-now-available-for-download-for-nokia-n900/

Probably sages here know all about this and I apologize for posting in advance.

Doc

[kingoddball]

@ above - I think that the download is mostly just a promt (CLI) with not much more.
I remember people here flashing then flashing back.


Edit: If we (N900 users) get a working release, will it be just a working OS or a fully working OS with support for our GPS, GSM, 3G, Fm Transmitter and all other goodies?

[qgil]

The idea to remember is that the N900 has been selected by the MeeGo project as a hardware platform to test the ARM support for MeeGo. In order to test you need the hardware enabled, and this is why the goal of Harri's project is to make MeeGo fully working in the N900.

[kingoddball]

Awesome news!
I can't wait to have a play with it (Dual Boot from SD).

[resplendent2209]

The idea to remember is that the N900 has been selected by the MeeGo project as a hardware platform to test the ARM support for MeeGo. In order to test you need the hardware enabled, and this is why the goal of Harri's project is to make MeeGo fully working in the N900.
This is music to my ears.

[bunanson]

meego pics on N900, http://bbs.dospy.com/thread-7273492-1-315-1.html, I know you cant read Chinese, just enjoy the pics. Ah, you can read the meego roadmaps, it is not in any lanaguage :) meego v.1.0 release in may (?!)

bun

[ZogG]

meego pics on N900, http://bbs.dospy.com/thread-7273492-1-315-1.html, I know you cant read Chinese, just enjoy the pics. Ah, you can read the meego roadmaps, it is not in any lanaguage :) meego v.1.0 release in may (?!)

bun

old pictures, as i know they are prototype. and it's not even sure if they are on n900. as i understand meego is only base and any company can make it's own UI. so if intel wants to make one UI it doesn't mean nokia wouldn't do it's own

[shockr]

I was wondering, what happened to the planned May 1st release?

[Chrome]

I was wondering, what happened to the planned May 1st release?

It's planned for May (1-31), not May 1st.

[mikec]

I was wondering, what happened to the planned May 1st release?

I think they now said its the end of May for the netbook UX, and after that for the handset UX,so.... set your expectatons

[russo_br]

The idea to remember is that the N900 has been selected by the MeeGo project as a hardware platform to test the ARM support for MeeGo. In order to test you need the hardware enabled, and this is why the goal of Harri's project is to make MeeGo fully working in the N900.

@qgil, I suggest you to always remember "Meego to N900" project doesn't mean yet a full support commitment from Nokia, maybe using the wiki link for further explanation. I know you already answered this on the past, but every post about this subject generate false assumptions for newer or less informed members...

[daemonfin]

@qgil, I suggest you to always remember "Meego to N900" project doesn't mean yet a full support commitment from Nokia, maybe using the wiki link for further explanation. I know you already answered this on the past, but every post about this subject generate false assumptions for newer or less informed members...

Not his fault, people should know what MeeGo is when asking this kind of questions.

[kingoddball]

Have there been any updates on MeeGo (and/or N900), yet?
Does the downloadable version have a working GUI or still CLI?

I won't test it until I can get an OS to boot from SD (I have failed each try).

[mnaveed]

Any Updates ???????????????????????

[TheBootroo]

maybe could you try to compile DuiHome
on Meego Preview Release
and get running on N900,

look here :
http://qt.gitorious.com/maemo-6-ui-framework

then you'll have an OS with Qt Handset UI from Nokia running on your N900 !!!

PLEEEEEEEASE do it !!

[Stskeeps]

For those wanting updates, we now work in the open for most issues. Just had our first public synchronisation meeting as well.

Our primary page is http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 with agendas and meeting minutes.

Keep in mind our work is hardware adaptation and we don't really have much to do with the user experiences and nothing to do with productization. However, those into kernels on N900, drivers, how to port MeeGo, we're a good thing to follow :)

[johnel]

Intro/ working mode (Hah, 06:05:10)

1. As you know from some of my emails, we are now operating as open project (Hah, 06:05:37)
2. That means everybody can join, propose and do some work related to N900 hw adaptation (Hah, 06:06:06)
3. We don't have to do list yet, that is one of the first things of course tbd (Hah, 06:11:02)
4. Testing of course makes more sense after 1.0 relase next week (Hah, 06:12:03)
5. we haven't really discussed dividing out tasks in a open manner - one way could be the bugtracker, but not sure where we belong there (Stskeeps, 06:12:36)
6. So far we have mostly contributed Fremantle sw towards upstream/meego (Hah, 06:13:40)
7. Now we are approacing the point where we have enough functionality for others to join and help (Hah, 06:14:51)


Fingers-crossed this happens (my nipples itch just thinking about it)

However:
# May Release blockers ? (Hah, 06:15:26)

1. There will be MeeGo release in may, likely on next week (Hah, 06:16:33)
2. waiting to be merged is sgx, audio, bluetooth, watchdog and battery charging suppotr (Stskeeps, 06:23:12)
3. IDEA: we need to have a N900 kernel package maintainer on board the kernel package maintainers group. this should speed up N900 related merge requests. (quadros, 06:23:51)
4. IDEA: or alternatively, the ARM platform maintainer role being put into place (Stskeeps, 06:24:19)
5. As we are very late with N900 adaptation, some kind of hack is maybe needed for 1.0 (Hah, 06:25:04)
6. There has been some discussion going on about these maintainer roles (Hah, 06:26:50)
7. for N900 example. I hope TSG will come up with some nominations at some point (Hah, 06:27:40)


Yikes!

Status update (Hah, 06:42:11)

1. Kernel support for BME ? (Hah, 06:42:52)
2. IDEA: , shouldn't bme be disabled till this cpu hogging issue is fixed? (quadros, 06:45:30)
3. There is a problem with BME eating 95% of CPU .. (Hah, 06:47:54)
4. Some internal work on that is needed, as BME is closed component (Hah, 06:49:58)
5. and at this I don't expect that it will be opended as such (Hah, 06:50:56)
6. Potential open version of BME needs project of it's own, if someone is interested (Hah, 06:51:43)
7. there has been some community rumblings from former openmoko people who know the battery charging chip well in regard to open charging, but that's a thing to be discussed how to deal with if it turns out to work (Stskeeps, 06:51:58)

Booohhhh!

At last a proper open n900 is looking more likely.


(Huge thanks to everyone that is making this possible)

[tissot]

Can't wait!

[Stskeeps]

Fingers-crossed this happens (my nipples itch just thinking about it)

<comment about hack>

<comment about BME being 99% CPU>


(Huge thanks to everyone that is making this possible)

Regarding hack, we've moved to a full mainline 2.6.33 kernel and upstreamed things - I'm personally not surprised we're a bit late to have it integrated, enormous effort.

At least we're noting something is wrong and we need to fix it ;)

However, please set your expectations right:

08:10:54 <Hah> UI for N900 will not be part of May release

This is part of TSG decision to move Handset UX release to a little after May release, it was mentioned and indicated at the previous TSG meeting.

However, as you can see, in our little part of the world, a lot of effort is going in.

[johnel]

Regarding hack, we've moved to a full mainline 2.6.33 kernel and upstreamed things - I'm personally not surprised we're a bit late to have it integrated, enormous effort.

At least we're noting something is wrong and we need to fix it ;)

However, please set your expectations right:

08:10:54 <Hah> UI for N900 will not be part of May release

This is part of TSG decision to move Handset UX release to a little after May release, it was mentioned and indicated at the previous TSG meeting.

However, as you can see, in our little part of the world, a lot of effort is going in.

This is fair enough. It makes sense to get the foundation right before releasing the gui.

Will the "May" release be functionally "complete" (using the term very loosely!)?

E.g. The foundation has call-making software and BME support.

If that is the case the UI - to a certain extent is "not that important".

If a "fully" functional foundation is released then will there be an ability to install your own gui and possible write your own gui apps for n900 MeeGo.
In theory could you write a phone app similar to what is available in maemo now?

However, as you can see, in our little part of the world, a lot of effort is going in

Absolutely, considering the time it took to get this far is impressive and an enormous achievement.

You should be proud of yourselves!

[Stskeeps]

E.g. The foundation has call-making software and BME support.

If that is the case the UI - to a certain extent is "not that important".

If a "fully" functional foundation is released then will there be an ability to install your own gui and possible write your own gui apps for n900 MeeGo.
In theory could you write a phone app similar to what is available in maemo now?


Provided the ofono stack is up to par, then yes. BME is kinda needed, a OS without charging is annoying to work with.

[Optln]

Correct me if I'm wrong: What we're getting is a vanilla MeeGo release with Harmattan UX. But unlike next MeeGo-Harmattan phone, our OS will be using RPM instead of DEB right?

[Stskeeps]

Correct me if I'm wrong: What we're getting is a vanilla MeeGo release with Harmattan UX. But unlike next MeeGo-Harmattan phone, our OS will be using RPM instead of DEB right?

Regarding the what the MeeGo release with Handset UX contains, you'll have to look at sources otherwise than the hardware adaptation here. This project deals with making MeeGo Core + an eventual UX work great on the N900.

You're right however, that it's RPM based.

[S0urcerr0r]

i have a question about the Meego project for the N900...

will u use emulation for multi touch?

with that i mean for example using:
1.one finger to cover the "Proximity Sensor" and with the other finger swipe left and right - to zoom in and out. ...a mirror swipe is emulated on the opposite side of the screen when the proximity sensor is covered
2. """"" "Proximity Sensor" and with the other finger tap - to make a double finger tap (at the position u tap).
3. """"" "Proximity Sensor and with the other finger swipe "up+left" at the same time - to rotate.
4. """"" "Proximity Sensor and with the other finger swipe up for etc....
5. """"" "Proximity Sensor and with the other finger swipe, starting in the center of the screen - emulates 2 fingers swiping in the same direction for scrolling.
6. covering the Proximity Sensor (and uncovering it again) without tapping the screen enters custom mode and records up to 3 taps/swipes and activates them simultanously next time the sensor is covered...

i guess u've already thought about this idea... but maybe there are some problems im not thinking of... maybe the proximity sensor is dependent on proper light levels in the room???

the advantage is that u wont need to rewrite every single program to get them 100% compatible with single-touch. but i guess it will be complicated creating a feature like this (drivers and such).


god bless nokia for adding a proximity sensor to the n900 - its like they've thought about the multi touch possibilities before hand. but i guess a hardware key would do the trick as well (but no need to sacrifice one now). :)

[harrihakulinen]

About MeeGo 1.0 Core release for N900

It does NOT include

- Mobile UI/UX (N900 will boot to Xterm)
- Reference Applications

It is intended for MeeGo developers for development purposes, and

- has practically NO value for end users
- has little value for MeeGo application developers.

Please do NOT install it if you don't know what you need it for.

For mor in formation, pls. see
http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900

Br,
//Harri

[harrihakulinen]

[QUOTE=S0urcerr0r;681468]i have a question about the Meego project for the N900...

will u use emulation for multi touch?
with that i mean for example using:
...

Frankly, we are not there yet, and have not discussed about this as far as I know. If you are willing to implement something like that please join to project.

Everybody should understand, that the whole MeeGo project has practically just started and we have to play catchup to even get to same level than Maemo 5 and Harmattan.

We have lot's of code that we can reuse from both of those, and we are trying to do that in as intelligent and efficient way than we can, but still it takes lots of time and energy.

Br,
//Harri

[S0urcerr0r]

Harri:
Thanks! excellent answers!
do u know where we stand from a Drivers perspective?
1. will the unofficial release of Meego for N900 be able to use all hardware incl powervr graphics, sound, wlan, bluetooth and phone hardware - or are there some closed source drivers that this project will be unable to utilize?
2. will nokia provide the Meego project (N900) with newer driver revisions for the SGX535? i guess drivers are developed behind closed doors so it will probably decide quite a bit about N900 performance if these drivers become available.

[harrihakulinen]

Harri:
do u know where we stand from a Drivers perspective?
1. will the unofficial release of Meego for N900 be able to use all hardware incl powervr graphics, sound, wlan, bluetooth and phone hardware - or are there some closed source drivers that this project will be unable to utilize?

2. will nokia provide the Meego project (N900) with newer driver revisions for the SGX535? i guess drivers are developed behind closed doors so it will probably decide quite a bit about N900 performance if these drivers become available.

Some of the drivers use/load closed firmware blobs to chips, and we are currently figuring out what is best way to re-distribute those for MeeGo purposes.

For now those are provided from Nokia owned prepository in tablets-dev.nokia.com

We are already using latest possible SGX drivers (from Harmattan project). The same will apply for many other drivers as well, like modem stack/ audio drivers.

Br,
//Harri

[zimon]

i have a question about the Meego project for the N900...

will u use emulation for multi touch?

with that i mean for example using:
1.one finger to cover the "Proximity Sensor" and with the other finger swipe left and right - to zoom in and out. ...a mirror swipe is emulated on the opposite side of the screen when the proximity sensor is covered
2. """"" "Proximity Sensor" and with the other finger tap - to make a double finger tap (at the position u tap).
3. """"" "Proximity Sensor and with the other finger swipe "up+left" at the same time - to rotate.
4. """"" "Proximity Sensor and with the other finger swipe up for etc....
5. """"" "Proximity Sensor and with the other finger swipe, starting in the center of the screen - emulates 2 fingers swiping in the same direction for scrolling.
6. covering the Proximity Sensor (and uncovering it again) without tapping the screen enters custom mode and records up to 3 taps/swipes and activates them simultanously next time the sensor is covered...


Very good ideas btw!

You could start a new thread to [Brainstorm] to suggest someone implementing these, like Fennec folks.

[S0urcerr0r]

thanks harrihakulinen and zimon for the answers :)

zimon:
yes. its also good that u mentioned it here so that developers knows that it is a big request (...and maybe other ppl can click thanks on mine or harri's reply post so it doesnt hog the thread too much). i really hope thats how it will be done to preserve compatibility with as many Meego apps as possible.

the proximity sensor acts a little bit laggy in some games/phoneapp. but maybe its due to the game itself. or maybe it have a little delay in updating its state, to limit "noise" (so the state doesnt jump back and forth)...
anyway, this feature is almost a must, no matter of a little lag, for a fully compatible meego distribution...

im gonna check out that brainstorm and see if i can make a more proper post :)

even though im a really bad programmer atm i will also check out the Meego SDK and see if it is something i could pull out with time.
although i think it must be done at "Driver level" to ensure full compatibility with apps/games communicating directly with the driver, bypassing the OS default inputs - and that will probably require coding ARM assembler, an area where im currently totally lost...

[Geekworld]

excellent thread,,God bless you all developers who are trying to pull Meego on N900

[maxximuscool]

horay! I'll help with the language pack if possoble. I can provide a whole UI translation to Khmer

[cb22]

We are already using latest possible SGX drivers (from Harmattan project). The same will apply for many other drivers as well, like modem stack/ audio drivers.


So if I understand correctly, the Meego base release should have 3D acceleration, and these newer drivers should expose Vsync?

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7459
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7459#c3

[S0urcerr0r]

So if I understand correctly, the Meego base release should have 3D acceleration, and these newer drivers should expose Vsync?

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7459
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7459#c3

great idea i hope there are some really skilled graphics programmers in the crew - and that this issue gets high priority... this will lay a good ground to let the community take over (in time), and add eyecandy effects on par with htc desire...

the community seems to be well suited to customize and add applications - and the only thing that will hold the community coders back, is if the final Meego release turns out to be too heavyweight for the hardware... it should be as lightweight as possible so it leaves room for additional weight (eyecandy and apps).

for comparisson, i remember using something called XSOS2.0 (a stripped windows xp version) on a old computer. it really gave some serious performance boost (compared to stock WinXP) and eliminated most background tasks that is usually hogging in the background (...services that most people dont use anyway). XSOS had fullblown drivers and 98% compatibility with apps and left plenty of resources for eyecandy and a lagfree experience.

this approach may also be needed to get full framerate while using the N900's camcorder. and if virtual memory can be disabled by the user i think this issue will dissappear.

there could be a menu called "advanced settings" where the user can decide which background tasks they find useful, and can disable the other ones to maximize possible achievable speed.

[felbutss]

how about just fake multitouch. lets put some more maths into this multitouch on a resistive screen thing

[S0urcerr0r]

if fake multi touch works well it may be a good idea.
however i think the accuracy drops if that approach is used. the screen would in worst case autodetect a one finger operation as a "multi touch operation", if the finger follows a certain pattern.
but im too inexperienced with it to make a accurate judgement... if the "PRESSURE sensitivity" can be activated on multiple parts of screen simultaneously fake multitouch could work really well.

[mokkey]

lovly stuff!

[S0urcerr0r]

Meego project team:

dont forget this thread with more information if any major news comes along... :)

[tom047]

yeah im interested to hear what the last 2 and a half weeks or so have produced, keep us updated team :) thanks for the good work!

[Dave999]

Who is running the show?

[buurmas]

Who is running the show?
According to the official wiki page (http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900), Nokia is contributing people, but it's not just a Nokia project. Since this is a MeeGo project and not solely a Nokia endeavor, I think they are trying to have much of the discussion be on MeeGo turf. The Handset subforum for MeeGo is here (http://forum.meego.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7) -- there's a little bit of activity there.

[S0urcerr0r]

any news??? i suppose theres nothing new to tell us about since there are no updates here. but it would still be nice to see some kind of update.

[Stskeeps]

We usually participate in this thread over at forum.meego.com and do announcements and such:

http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=7906#post7906

[slender]

btw.
What are downsides of using mmc for running meego. Reason for this is, that if there is some performance issues e.g. program zyx loads too long etc. then should people write bug report or should they first try to install it to nand? Something maybe to add here:
http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC

[S0urcerr0r]

We usually participate in this thread over at forum.meego.com and do announcements and such:

http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=7906#post7906thanks alot for the quick answer! :)

[johnel]

[MeeGo-dev] MeeGo 1.1 Development Release 1.0.80.16.20100824.1 is availabe

MeeGo has been updated

Status summary for supported hardware
=====================================

Handset, Aava:

* Bluetooth works, pairing is possible, but shows up as a audio
rendering device in the paired phone.
* Virtual keyboard works.
* Lack of space in ‘/’ partition is causing a bunch of regressions
(BMC#5644, BMC#5645, BMC#5646, BMC#5648, BMC#5649, BMC#5660).
* Screen re-alignment does not work based on accelerometer inputs. (BMC#4872)
* Touch screen calibration is still a bit skewed (BMC#4287)
* Screen calibration application turns the whole screen blank (BMC#5127)
* Phonesim doesn't launch (BMC#3706)


Handset, Netbook-Mtf:

* The screen remains blank when the system is up, tapping on the touch
pad reveals the home UI (Bug 3916)
* The image doesn't takes full net-book screen (Bug 4068)
* Clicking on the editable area blanks the whole screen (Bug 5606)
* Lot of icons show up a red blocks (Bug 3935)
* X-term blanks the whole screen (Bug 3551)
* MeeGo Music continues to play even after closing the application (Bug 2356)
* Phonesim doesn't launch (Bug 3706)


Handset, N900:

* A refreshed home UI with newer set of icons are in use.
* WLAN icon, Battery icon, Phone icons on the status bar visible.
* The device’s performance is initially a bit slow, most likely due to
tracker running in the BG.
* The virtual keyboard shows up and works.
* Music player is missing from the application grid (Bug 5292).
* BT option shows up in setting, but is unusable.
* WiFi is still unusable on the device.
* Fennec does not launch (Bug 4021)


Netbook, generic ia32 netbook:

* No new regressions.
* Image quite stable.


Detailed test reports
=====================

Core N/A
Handset http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/HandsetTestReport/UXWeekly20100825
Netbook http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/NetbookTestReport/NetbookSanity20100824


Available images
================

Core
http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.16.20100824.1/core/images/meego-core-armv7l-madde-sysroot/
http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.16.20100824.1/core/images/meego-core-armv7l-n900/
http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.16.20100824.1/core/images/meego-core-ia32-madde-sysroot/

Handset
http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.16.20100824.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-aava-mtf-devel/
http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.16.20100824.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-aava-mtf/
http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.16.20100824.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-mtf-devel/
http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.16.20100824.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-mtf/
http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.16.20100824.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-netbook-mtf/

Netbook
http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.80/1.0.80.16.20100824.1/netbook/images/meego-netbook-ia32/


Bugs fixed:
===========

http://bugs.meego.com/buglist.cgi?bug_id=2048,2806,3016,3234,3284,3710,3 917,4282,432,5016,5196,5199,5204,5223,5226,5257,52 97,5306,550,5614,5701,2656,3015,3022

[N3d0]

Where can i find/buy an "Aava" Handset?

[wmarone]

Where can i find/buy an "Aava" Handset?

http://www.aavamobile.com/

They'll only cost you ~$2K USD per handset though.

[Stskeeps]

[MeeGo-dev] MeeGo 1.1 Development Release 1.0.80.16.20100824.1 is availabe

MeeGo has been updated

You don't want to use core- images. Get them from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php, new release up.

[BluesLee]

You don't want to use core- images. Get them from http://tablets-dev.meego.com/meego-codedrop.php, new release up.

meego<>nokia, you mean

http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php


Blues

[Stskeeps]

meego<>nokia, you mean


We're working on fixing this situation.. first one is BME for RX-51 appearing as redistributable for non-commercial use in non-oss section, then the rest should fall..*

(* It's quite annoying to deal with closed blobs, but at least it's going in the right direction)

[fatalsaint]

We're working on fixing this situation.. first one is BME for RX-51 appearing as redistributable for non-commercial use in non-oss section, then the rest should fall..*

(* It's quite annoying to deal with closed blobs, but at least it's going in the right direction)

He means your URL is wrong..tablets-dev.meego.com doesn't load.

[giannoug]

He was talking about the domain on your latest post :p

http://tablets-dev.meego.com/meego-codedrop.php
should be
http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php

[Stskeeps]

Only one word fits that:

D'oh!

[johnel]

Just got this update on Meego:

Status summary for supported hardware
=====================================


Highlights and Issues:


Handset, Aava:

* Music player crash reported in the preview release are no longer seen.
* Email icon is still unavailable (now a red block is seen in its
place) (Bug 7003)
* Logical strings appear on the settings applications (Bug 7612)
* Screen is blank on start up, tapping on the screen once shows up
the home screen (Bug 5705)
* VKB has issues launching and operating. VKB launching is not
consistent, the user is unable to see characters getting entered in
the text area. (Bug 6047)
* Email, social networking applications present in the application
matrix but they are not fully useable. It’s usage is blocked due to
the VKB issue.
* Touch screen calibration is still a bit skewed. (Bug 4985)
* The typed content not displayed unless VKB is closed. (Bug 6047)
* Certain applications have missing icons, red blocks are shown
instead. (Bug 3921)
* Calibration application is broken, on exiting turns the screen
blank, recovering to the home screen is very difficult. (Bug 5127)
* Audio still does not work on Aava, though the default media is visible.


Handset, Pinetrail:


* Email icon is not appearing in the quick launch area. (Bug 7003)
* Logical strings appear on the settings applications (Bug 7612)
* Screen remains black after boot up, tapping on the touchpad reveals
the home UI (Bug 3916)
* Tapping on text entry blocks out the whole screen. (Bug 5606)
* Applications that require configurations (Chat, Social Networking,
Email) is blocked due to this.
* Default videos still unavailable.
* X-term is not working correctly. (Bug 3551)
* Trying to open the status area by clicking and dragging down the
top area of the screen blacks out the screen (Bug 3561)


Handset, N900:

* Browser launching is still broken (Bug 4021)
* Most applications launch and work normally
* Battery charging does not work, bug listed as fixed (Bug 2260)


Netbook, generic ia32 netbook:

* Image found to be quite stable.
* No major issues spotted.

[attila77]

Note that these reports are about the weekly development builds. They are expected to be (occasionally and somewhat) broken.

[johnel]

The state of the meego project is constantly changing and like any software project may work one week but may break the next - it's the nature of software development..

I usually post these reports now and again just to give people here a general idea of the state of the meego project - it seems to be pretty good.

I imagine many people here on maemo.org are getting pretty excited about the next release.

[attila77]

The state of the meego project is constantly changing and like any software project may work one week but may break the next - it's the nature of software development..

I usually post these reports now and again just to give people here a general idea of the state of the meego project - it seems to be pretty good.

I imagine many people here on maemo.org are getting pretty excited about the next release.

Certainly - I was just noting it to people who might not be that familiar with development practices so we would avoid jumping to conclusions. Seeing development actually happening in the open might be slightly disorienting for users, too ! :)

[lma]

Software is a bit like sausages in that respect. If watching it being made makes you squeamish, just don't and wait for the final product instead.

[johnel]

Software is a bit like sausages in that respect. If watching it being made makes you squeamish, just don't and wait for the final product instead.

Especially under tight deadlines. Some truly ugly code has been written as a consequence.

Sausages made with mashed-up cow sphincters doesn't seem so bad.

[champus]

The state of the meego project is constantly changing and like any software project may work one week but may break the next - it's the nature of software development..

I usually post these reports now and again just to give people here a general idea of the state of the meego project - it seems to be pretty good.

I imagine many people here on maemo.org are getting pretty excited about the next release.

This is definitely NOT the way good software is being developed!
Regressions have to be avoided strictly (!). No commitment into the main development pool without doing specified unit tests. Everything else is (sorry Meego-Devs) foolish.

[johnel]

This is definitely NOT the way good software is being developed!
Regressions have to be avoided strictly (!). No commitment into the main development pool without doing specified unit tests. Everything else is (sorry Meego-Devs) foolish.

Generally you're right but with low-level hardware programming it isn't always the case.

[attila77]

Remember that much of the MeeGo work is integration related - and upstream stuff itself is a fairly moving target. Murphy usually makes sure you have a circular issue-dependency somewhere so if you don't commit until it's without regressions chances are you'll end up with nothing ever committed.

[ScottishDuck]

Alrighty folks, we should hopefully see phone working in the next weekly build. It happens to be good timing as well, because code freeze is very soon.

[damnshock]

Alrighty folks, we should hopefully see phone working in the next weekly build. It happens to be good timing as well, because code freeze is very soon.

That means it's not working already? :S

Well, as I may reflash my device I might give meego a try first...

Let you know if I do ;)

[noobmonkey]

That means it's not working already? :S

Well, as I may reflash my device I might give meego a try first...

Let you know if I do ;)


nitroid isn't far off either :) good to see boths teams doing really well :)

[SD69]

Alrighty folks, we should hopefully see phone working in the next weekly build. It happens to be good timing as well, because code freeze is very soon.
Sounds good.

Sorry to be off-topic*, but does anyone know the possibility of successful MeeGo adaptation to N8x0?

* I would post in the N8x0 thread, but it was closed. :(

[lma]

Sorry to be off-topic*, but does anyone know the possibility of successful MeeGo adaptation to N8x0?

It's possible, but realistically the chances aren't that great because it depends on working GL drivers. Besides, even if hw adaptation is eventually successful, neither the netbook (tuned for 1024x600 displays) nor handset (phone-oriented) UX seem like a very good match for these devices.

[SD69]

It's possible, but realistically the chances aren't that great because it depends on working GL drivers.
Yea, unlikely.

Besides, even if hw adaptation is eventually successful, neither the netbook (tuned for 1024x600 displays) nor handset (phone-oriented) UX seem like a very good match for these devices.I'm thinking of putting a different UX on top of core MeeGo.

[lardman]

How did Stskeeps get on with having the N8x0 PowerVR drivers opened up?

[mikec]

For those that want to keep track of the Overall Handset UX program here is the link to the wiki page

Including features and progress

http://wiki.meego.com/Handset_Program

[SD69]

How did Stskeeps get on with having the N8x0 PowerVR drivers opened up?My understanding is that what was opened was not in a good state. Challenges still ahead.

[NvyUs]

I've heard that in the latest MeeGo handset release (this weeks release 1.0.90.4.20100924.1) calling and SMS is working On N900.
I might give it a try later if i find the time

[ironm8]

wait another 3 more days and get the RC1 ver. :)

[chaoscreater]

Just got this update on Meego:

Status summary for supported hardware
=====================================


Highlights and Issues:


Handset, Aava:

* Music player crash reported in the preview release are no longer seen.
* Email icon is still unavailable (now a red block is seen in its
place) (Bug 7003)
* Logical strings appear on the settings applications (Bug 7612)
* Screen is blank on start up, tapping on the screen once shows up
the home screen (Bug 5705)
* VKB has issues launching and operating. VKB launching is not
consistent, the user is unable to see characters getting entered in
the text area. (Bug 6047)
* Email, social networking applications present in the application
matrix but they are not fully useable. It’s usage is blocked due to
the VKB issue.
* Touch screen calibration is still a bit skewed. (Bug 4985)
* The typed content not displayed unless VKB is closed. (Bug 6047)
* Certain applications have missing icons, red blocks are shown
instead. (Bug 3921)
* Calibration application is broken, on exiting turns the screen
blank, recovering to the home screen is very difficult. (Bug 5127)
* Audio still does not work on Aava, though the default media is visible.


Handset, Pinetrail:


* Email icon is not appearing in the quick launch area. (Bug 7003)
* Logical strings appear on the settings applications (Bug 7612)
* Screen remains black after boot up, tapping on the touchpad reveals
the home UI (Bug 3916)
* Tapping on text entry blocks out the whole screen. (Bug 5606)
* Applications that require configurations (Chat, Social Networking,
Email) is blocked due to this.
* Default videos still unavailable.
* X-term is not working correctly. (Bug 3551)
* Trying to open the status area by clicking and dragging down the
top area of the screen blacks out the screen (Bug 3561)


Handset, N900:

* Browser launching is still broken (Bug 4021)
* Most applications launch and work normally
* Battery charging does not work, bug listed as fixed (Bug 2260)


Netbook, generic ia32 netbook:

* Image found to be quite stable.
* No major issues spotted.


battery charging does not work huh?? I wonder how they can even unbrick or fix this once the battery dies. If u can't charge it then that's as good as dead........they must have like 9000+ N900s to test this, either that or they probably have an external battery charger or multiple spare batteries.......coz afaik, i couldn't find any external chargers on the net.

[maxximuscool]

battery charging does not work huh?? I wonder how they can even unbrick or fix this once the battery dies. If u can't charge it then that's as good as dead........they must have like 9000+ N900s to test this, either that or they probably have an external battery charger or multiple spare batteries.......coz afaik, i couldn't find any external chargers on the net.

Bro, external charger is on Trademe, just search for the battery model and it will come out. I got one from TradeMe as well.

[chaoscreater]

Bro, external charger is on Trademe, just search for the battery model and it will come out. I got one from TradeMe as well.

ya i did ages ago, and did a search just then and still can't find it.

[maxximuscool]

ya i did ages ago, and did a search just then and still can't find it.

I'll dig out my TradeMe dealer for you. I got mine from there.

That was easy lol. You just don't have a clue what to search for.

Anyway here it is.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Mobile-phones/Accessories/Chargers/Nokia/auction-320109479.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Mobile-phones/Accessories/Chargers/Nokia/auction-320320802.htm

This is what I got back then:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=261431633

[Radicalz38]

also if you are that techy enough you could make your own handy external charger. Dealing with amperes, voltages and step down transformers and diodes isn't hard if you know how they work.

[Ele-Mental]

also if you are that techy enough you could make your own handy external charger. Dealing with amperes, voltages and step down transformers and diodes isn't hard if you know how they work.

I was thinking of hardwiring a old charger.