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mrojas
2010-05-25, 06:30
"Moving away from the update and to look at MeeGo and the Nokia N900. Many of you have been asking whether the new MeeGo platform will be supported on the N900 once it’s device-ready. Although Nokia N900 devices are being used for platform development and testing purposes by those involved in the MeeGo project, we don’t have plans for a full scale commercial MeeGo upgrade on the Nokia N900. The reason? It’s really about ensuring that you have the best possible experience designed for the features on your Nokia N900 device. Nokia realises this news may be a disappointment for some, rest assured that Nokia will continue to support the core Maemo software on your Nokia N900, as evidenced by the PR 1.2 (V10.2010.19-1) update available today."

http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/

Sorry, guys.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 06:31
But there was never going to be a commercial MeeGo release

Geekworld
2010-05-25, 06:35
disappointment

jackie_jagger
2010-05-25, 06:36
true that, but I believe someone in the community will port it to the N900, someone from Nokia said this "If we don't bring MeeGo to the N900, we expect someone from the Community to bring it to the device" !!

MeeGo 1.0 is expected to be released soon, lets see what does that bring !!

j-a-k
2010-05-25, 06:40
What does MeeGo actually give you that Maemo does not? Do apps for MeeGo run on Maemo PR1.2. If so, why is there this over whelming desire to get Meego? -just curious

ysss
2010-05-25, 06:41
That made me a little limp... :(

Rocketman
2010-05-25, 06:42
Although Nokia N900 devices are being used for platform development and testing purposes by those involved in the MeeGo project, we don’t have plans for a full scale commercial MeeGo upgrade on the Nokia N900. The reason? It’s really about ensuring that you have the best possible experience designed for the features on your Nokia N900 device.

What absolute ******** rationale. This is the official line? That may have held true with the 770, where the hardware was truly a limiting factor, but the N900 has absolute state of the art hardware stats comparable to anything released on the market today or in the near future.

"Ensuring the best possible user experience" has become the blanket term used by uncreative PR flacks when they are s***ing someone over.

qwerty12
2010-05-25, 06:42
How is this a surprise? =)

Peter@Maemo Marketing
2010-05-25, 06:42
Let's remember that this all about user experience. Polishing software is a lot of work. Polishing each application for resistive screen (as good as it is) is not trivial considering that we are making the UI for our Nokia product on MeeGo for capacitive screens as we have said already in Maemo Summit 2009.

jakiman
2010-05-25, 06:43
Good and bad news in one day. I don't know how I should feel right now.

But for now, I'll be happy and will update to 1.2 soon. :D

slender
2010-05-25, 06:43
Do you guys check topics what have been made in last 1-2h at all? And thread topic is plain wrong. It will be but not commercial.

..edit
And i should check times. This was first but second thread has right topic :|

jackie_jagger
2010-05-25, 06:43
What does MeeGo actually give you that Maemo does not? Do apps for MeeGo run on Maemo PR1.2. If so, why is there this over whelming desire to get Meego? -just curious

Yes, it does with the coming of PR1.2 its the first device with Pre-installed Qt, and it is future compatible with the MeeGo and its 3rd Party apps !! everything that runs on MeeGo will run on Maemo !

abill_uk
2010-05-25, 06:45
There you go its a bleak story yet again from a company that only cares about money forget people !.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 06:45
Let's remember that this all about user experience. Polishing software is a lot of work. Polishing each application for resistive screen (as good as it is) is not trivial considering that we are making the UI for our Nokia product on MeeGo for capacitive screens as we have said already in Maemo Summit 2009.

Does this mean that, let's say Samsung makes a resistive screen device with MeeGo on it, we can port the Samsung version?

felbutss
2010-05-25, 06:47
yyeee made me limp too. nokia really dont care lol. they know we want it. but dont want to give it. they know people are unhappy but.... dont care. well dont nokia realise every second person has a iphone??? lol nokia might be king BUT king of what... the low-end market????????


:D o well someone will port it.

mrojas
2010-05-25, 06:47
Added "(commercial)" to the title, but doesn't seem to load it yet.

fatalsaint
2010-05-25, 06:50
There will still be flashable versions for the N900 I'm sure for quite some time all. So as MeeGo becomes "mature" you'll still be able to flash it and use it.

Now.. whether there's actually going to be a "user" experience that degrades between the use of capacitive or resistive *shrug*.. but it'll be there for those who want it I'm sure. (They'll just say it's "devel").

(ETA: I am, however, saddened they decided not to official support it.)

HellFlyer
2010-05-25, 06:51
I guess now nobody will dare even to mention flash 10.1 :(

So N900 becomes Holy Grail , IMO MeeGo wil adopt capacitive and mutlitouch screen without hardware keyboard..N900 with Maemo 5 stays the only real pocket computer!!!! :)

afaq
2010-05-25, 06:54
If Meego is being designed for capacitive, does that mean we are likely to loose the physical keyboard? This blows. I dont want meego if it has no keyboard.

thelushlife
2010-05-25, 06:55
to Peter@Maemo Marketing : sure user UI is priority, but it just doesn't seem to be ethical to screw customers who buy the MOST EXPENSIVE and highest-end mobile phone available from nokia, only to have it fall by the way side and become a legacy device.

If MeeGo is seen as an OS for top end nokia phones, then it sounds like nokia was covering the wool over n900 buyers by leaving future maemo support purposely 'open' so that we wouldn't know we're buying a shiny new device that has reached its end-of-life.

but hey, i've got pr1.2 downloading now, i only have myself to blame when i bought the n900. caveat emptor eh nokia? i'm still an n900 fan, regardless of the company shafting us for the sake of 'the future and scalability' that is the meego cashcow.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 06:56
If Meego is being designed for capacitive, does that mean we are likely to loose the physical keyboard? This blows. I dont want meego if it has no keyboard.

For Nokia. There is a possibility that other companies could make resistive screen meego devices

jnwi
2010-05-25, 06:56
You guys have to stop believing everyone is like us. How would the average user feel if they started up the device one day only to find out everything is slightly different?

That leaves Nokia with the unattractive option of supporting two operating systems on one device. Why do you think they owe us this when an unofficial port can do the job and Maemo has Qt anyway?

You're acting like Fremantle is some kind of horrible system when in reality it is excellent with a couple of omissions.

Glasswalker
2010-05-25, 06:57
I've got to admit that it doesn't bother me wether the N900 gets an official port of MeeGo or not. First I'm quite sure that someone will port it over and second I'm quite happy with Maemo as it is. As long as Nokia doesn't stop to support it as soon as MeeGo goes on sale...

It all boils down to: lets wait and see....

Regards,
Glasswalker

nosa101
2010-05-25, 06:59
TBH though, do people want MeeGo because of the apps? If so, the Qt apps should work on Maemo.

benny1967
2010-05-25, 06:59
Does this mean that, let's say Samsung makes a resistive screen device with MeeGo on it, we can port the Samsung version?

not really. the samsung UI, designed for resistive, would most probably be closed source, just like the nokia UI is closed.

there'll be an open "reference UI" though. i wonder if this will be optimized for capacitive or resistive.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 07:01
not really. the samsung UI, designed for resistive, would most probably be closed source, just like the nokia UI is closed.

there'll be an open "reference UI" though. i wonder if this will be optimized for capacitive or resistive.

But doesn't that defeat the openness of it all? I think it should be no different from flashing the Sense UI onto a Nexus 1

madnes
2010-05-25, 07:07
Typical Nokia. And TBH, not just Nokia.

New OS in an existing mobile device? No way.
Despite some "wannabe" inside info claiming Meego MAY be available for N900, it was obviously planned from the first moment, that Meego will be available ONLY for an upcoming new device.
New OS -> New Device -> $$$$$

thelushlife
2010-05-25, 07:08
TBH though, do people want MeeGo because of the apps? If so, the Qt apps should work on Maemo.

I want MeeGo soley for selfish 'me-too' reasons. buying the highest-end most expensive device represents the cutting edge bleeding technology with the inference that any more advanced operating system that is deemed by the company i bought the device from to be 'the most advanced' should be available for my device.

at the very least, an operating system which is the 'successor' to the current o/s should be made firmware upgradeable, a reasonable request considering the less than 1 year age of the n900 since its release date. heck, in my country (singapore), they launched the n900 officially 2 weeks ago.

2 weeks old and it's EOL? doesn't seem to be anything than unethical social corporate responsibility from nokia. not a rant, just a realistic prosumer point of view. i love my n900, but question the actual decision-making and longevity-support from nokia's management.

AlMehdi
2010-05-25, 07:08
It have never been said that MeeGo will be a OTA release for n900. The things that have been said that it might come a dual boot option. But the installation will be manual. So no bad news just great. ;)

tekojo
2010-05-25, 07:11
Sigh. Cool down people. Get up, take a breath of air, and then come back to the thread.

Let's take the facts:
- The N900 will not get a commercially supported MeeGo release
- The N900 is a reference development platform for MeeGo
- MeeGo (an upstream linux distro) is heading for it's 1.0 release

Out of those it is pretty easy to deduct that:
- MeeGo on the N900 is not for the average consumer.
- MeeGo will run in it's default configuration on the N900
- No-one will give any guarantees on how MeeGo on N900 will work

=> If you are a hard core developer, MeeGo on N900 is for you.

toucan murphy
2010-05-25, 07:14
the most important part here is Qt. Meego and Symbian apps can also be targetted to the 900. We should see at least a decent increase in apps now over the next few months.

crown77
2010-05-25, 07:15
Okay so what about the "nokia" news about dual boot for Meego and Maemo i guess this was a lie?

Iam happy about PR 1.2 now for the Moment but how many offical Updates we will see after this?

@madnes why do you say Meego is a new System its mostly from Maemo Components as you can see at some threads here its called a better Maemo 6.

So for me this is really angry i just hope that the next news arent Meego is based now on a higher version of QT or something like this and that we really can use the Apps at the N900.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 07:17
Okay so what about the "nokia" news about dual boot for Meego and Maemo i guess this was a lie?

Iam happy about PR 1.2 now for the Moment but how many offical Updates we will see after this?

@madnes why do you say Meego is a new System its mostly from Maemo Components as you can see at some threads here its called a better Maemo 6.

So for me this is really angry i just hope that the next news arent Meego is based now on a higher version of QT or something like this and that we really can use the Apps at the N900.

You could dual boot but not with "official" firmware

Rocketman
2010-05-25, 07:17
I've got to admit that it doesn't bother me wether the N900 gets an official port of MeeGo or not. First I'm quite sure that someone will port it over and second I'm quite happy with Maemo as it is. As long as Nokia doesn't stop to support it as soon as MeeGo goes on sale.

You act as if porting an OS to a device is an easy task. Maemo, despite a surface appearance of openness, contain quite a few closed source components without which huge chunks of basic functionality are missing and have to be reimplemented. To date, there isn't really a viable community supported release of Maemo for any of the Nokia devices. It is small wonder almost no 3rd party manufacturers have attempted to make a device based on Maemo, while it is hard not to trip on all the new android devices coming out near daily.

felbutss
2010-05-25, 07:18
all i care about is flash 10.1. i want GPU support

saruji
2010-05-25, 07:21
"rest assured that Nokia will continue to support the core Maemo software on your Nokia N900"

So is that going to be like the assurance we got for the n810 platform?.....or more like death in under 9 month and your outdated device gets laughed at. People I'd just like to say from my NOKIA to my wallet: Thanks you for your money and oh yea best wishes, rest assured we gotcha guys! ;)

Nokia is the most pathetic incompetent pack of losers to ever walk into an IT room or get in the market. With hopes of being truely "open" after relying on the market on zero innovation and a 100% reliance on Symbian they are losing market share and running scarred for the hill.

You know what, keep your MeeGo, Intel is going to create their own locked down OS built especially for their Moorestown chip and MeeGo is just going to be a bridge gaper along with Android. Which, might I add, are just about light years ahead of you, at least they support the user who shells out the $500 for your unfinished device. And Apple? They are in a different universe comparing to you. You know as much as I hate em and how much they get bashed by zealot users on this site, you can still install any new app on your very first iphone 8bg that you bought back in 2006 to this day and it runs at near identical speeds.

One more thing, I've had my posts deleted before, posts that were not insulting that were not violating any rules set in place, why were they deleted, because they were not favorable to Nokia. So if any of you folks feel that Nokia is going to be something more "open" in the future, your lying to yourself.

My personal take on the future is that open is going to all close, minus maybe openmoko. And the closes that anyone is going to get to being truely "open" and at the same time competent, it is going to be the Android platform. Currently Nokia cannot satisfy even one of those....

/rant

nosa101
2010-05-25, 07:24
while it is hard not to trip on all the new android devices coming out near daily.

I'm pretty sure those companies obtained a license from Google. There was android before the Nexus 1. WM 7 will be on multiple devices but it isn;t open

kevinm2k
2010-05-25, 07:24
flash 10 support would be good now, can then watch iplayer, tv catchup etc!

I dont care too much for meego as long as we now get the apps on maemo i'll be happy.

switchfiend
2010-05-25, 07:26
I'm pretty sure those companies obtained a license from Google. There was android before the Nexus 1. WM 7 will be on multiple devices but it isn;t open

Yeah, speaking as an Android owner whose phone came out about 4 months before the N900, you guys have now officially gotten 1 more software update than I have (and will likely ever get).

So the grass isn't always greener. Be happy the phone is being improved.

mrojas
2010-05-25, 07:26
Let's remember that this all about user experience. Polishing software is a lot of work. Polishing each application for resistive screen (as good as it is) is not trivial considering that we are making the UI for our Nokia product on MeeGo for capacitive screens as we have said already in Maemo Summit 2009.

While I understand the reasons, I still believe that such non-trivial effort should have been made.

kevinm2k
2010-05-25, 07:27
PeterMeego: Ovi Store switch-over to new version with paid-content when most have upgraded later this week. PR1.1.1 #N900 must update then to access.

Does this mean they have a proper store but they've waited until 1.2 to open it for us????

nosa101
2010-05-25, 07:28
While I understand the reasons, I still believe that such non-trivial effort should have been made.

Then Nokia gets accused of putting out substandard software?

Rocketman
2010-05-25, 07:29
Let's remember that this all about user experience. Polishing software is a lot of work. Polishing each application for resistive screen (as good as it is) is not trivial considering that we are making the UI for our Nokia product on MeeGo for capacitive screens as we have said already in Maemo Summit 2009.

I really question the idea that you can't design a UI that would be equally useful and *ooh, shiny* on resistive and capacitive devices. For the most part, the utility of capacitive multitouch on phone sized devices has been limited to stupid gimmick gestures and slightly better onscreen keyboard input. At the same time, you give up the ability to use a stylus for better precision, cold weather use, edge of fingernail, etc. which IMO is an awful trade off.

I will not buy a next generation Nokia phone that does not offer a stylus as a viable input option and a hardware keyboard, period. The extremely poor treatment of N900 customers in terms of post sale support & failure to honor rebates had me moving towards Android anyways.

crown77
2010-05-25, 07:34
@switchfiend Why dont you get an Android Update there is 2.1 out for long and 2.2 is in work you can download this firmware for near any device at the internet. And 2.2 if a big step away from PreRelease 1.2 you see?

nosa101
2010-05-25, 07:37
@switchfiend Why dont you get an Android Update there is 2.1 out for long and 2.2 is in work you can download this firmware for near any device at the internet. And 2.2 if a big step away from PreRelease 1.2 you see?

I don't think it's that easy

ysss
2010-05-25, 07:37
This is what I paid for N900
|------------------|

This is what I think I would get from it
|-----------------------------------------|

This is how big a fuss I would make, if I don't get what I want from it
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

madnes
2010-05-25, 07:38
@madnes why do you say Meego is a new System its mostly from Maemo Components as you can see at some threads here its called a better Maemo 6.


From a $$$ point of view, Meego is a new OS.
Think about it: How many people will run at the stores when the new device with the new shiny Meego OS shows up in the stores? ;)

spoonbuddy
2010-05-25, 07:40
Maemo 6 was never coming to the N900 so why are you lot expecting Meego. Nokia have been saying all along that the new OS was for capacitive screens (though I think most educated users would prefer to stick with resistive) so this is no suprise. Meego is a long way off being a polished OS and now we have QT the commercial apps will start to appear. I fail to see the problem.

switchfiend
2010-05-25, 07:40
@switchfiend Why dont you get an Android Update there is 2.1 out for long and 2.2 is in work you can download this firmware for near any device at the internet. And 2.2 if a big step away from PreRelease 1.2 you see?

My point was that there is no official update for my phone past Android 1.6. There are numerous custom ROM images created to port newer releases, but they are homebrew.

I was talking about the fact that a phone which has been out for only four months longer than the N900 has been abandoned by it's manufacturer.

Listening to people on here complaining that they aren't going to get a port of Meego strikes me as a similar situation. Meego's core functionality (the base platform minus whatever Nokia is going to do to it to ship on their next device) will be available, and I'm sure industrious hackers can put together a similar custom ROM.

I'm just saying, be happy you guys got two actual updates (and there still could be more, just not an official update to Meego).

switchfiend
2010-05-25, 07:44
I don't think it's that easy

It's not incredibly difficult, it just involves rooting your phone and reflashing to one of the custom ROMs. Oh, and then reinstalling all your apps that aren't able to be included in the ROM (although some of the newer Cyanogen updates do this for you).

It is more effort than I've been willing to do, however; which is why my Android phone is still stuck at 1.6.

I was just trying to draw attention to the fact that folks on here who are talking about how much better it is on the Android side of the fence aren't necessarily correct. Android has it's own bureaucratic nonsense (like coordinating updates between Google, the handset manufacturer, and the carrier).

crown77
2010-05-25, 07:48
@switchfiend and @nosa as far i know for the g1 the really first android device it is able to get a 2.1 android too?

look here sorry i only have a german link maybe you can translate it by yourselve.

http://de.engadget.com/2010/05/03/android-2-1-auf-g1-und-mytouch-installieren/

so have fun i hope i was able to help you.

*edit* sorry just saw your last comment to late switchfiend.

Rocketman
2010-05-25, 07:48
I'm pretty sure those companies obtained a license from Google. There was android before the Nexus 1. WM 7 will be on multiple devices but it isn;t open

Actually, Android is released under an Apache style open source license. Anyone can build a device around it. There are just a few nice google provided applications for Android that aren't released under the same license and have to negotiated for separately. There are quite a few community provided android releases for existing devices which have not received official upgrades to newer versions, or which (not legally) add back the google apps.

A lot of Android phones are getting officially provided upgrades to newer versions of the platform. There are a few which aren't, such as the G1, which can't be upgraded for technical reasons (not enough flash storage to hold the rom image, etc.).

The standard that is emerging for both Android and Iphone platforms is of a fairly long term support window on the order of 5 years. Applications are forwards compatible over that time frame. New OS releases are back ported to older hardware while introducing new functionality and API exposure for hardware features found in newer phones.

Nokia is still thinking in terms of a 1-off device mentality and with the N900 the window of support compared to previous devices has shrunken remarkably, with few seasoned users expecting any substantive development / fixes for the platform past a year from initial release. If we are lucky, we will have some degree of compatibility with QT applications released for Meego, but there are tons of core functionality issues with the N900 that will never be fixed/addressed by Nokia & are unlikely to be addressed by community releases or impossible to do so due to closed source components.

switchfiend
2010-05-25, 07:50
@switchfiend and @nosa as far i know for the g1 the really first android device it is able to get a 2.1 android too?

look here sorry i only have a german link maybe you can translate it by yourselve.

http://de.engadget.com/2010/05/03/android-2-1-auf-g1-und-mytouch-installieren/

so have fun i hope i was able to help you.

No worries. ;)

That article references Cyanogen mod (which is one of the more popular homebrew mods floating around).

It isn't an official update; which isn't to say it isn't useful, just that it requires all the hoop jumping I outlined in my last post.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 07:52
@switchfiend and @nosa as far i know for the g1 the really first android device it is able to get a 2.1 android too?

look here sorry i only have a german link maybe you can translate it by yourselve.

http://de.engadget.com/2010/05/03/android-2-1-auf-g1-und-mytouch-installieren/

so have fun i hope i was able to help you.

*edit* sorry just saw your last comment to late switchfiend.
After how many years? The g1 JUST got 2.1 unofficially

superg05
2010-05-25, 07:55
It's not incredibly difficult, it just involves rooting your phone and reflashing to one of the custom ROMs. Oh, and then reinstalling all your apps that aren't able to be included in the ROM (although some of the newer Cyanogen updates do this for you).

It is more effort than I've been willing to do, however; which is why my Android phone is still stuck at 1.6.

I was just trying to draw attention to the fact that folks on here who are talking about how much better it is on the Android side of the fence aren't necessarily correct. Android has it's own bureaucratic nonsense (like coordinating updates between Google, the handset manufacturer, and the carrier).
wrong its the handset manufactures and carriers not Google they make it put it out its up to handset manufactures to implement it as Google said we make it and release it it not our job to hold peoples hands (http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/22/entelligence-is-android-fragmented-or-is-this-the-new-rate-of-i/)

nosa101
2010-05-25, 07:56
A lot of Android phones are getting officially provided upgrades to newer versions of the platform. There are a few which aren't, such as the G1, which can't be upgraded for technical reasons (not enough flash storage to hold the rom image, etc.).

.

But the MeeGo is a "new" OS. And other Android phones have to wait a bit to get the update. The Cliq is fairly new and it doesn't have 2.1 yet and 2.2 is out.

Even Motorola doesn't have a set date for the Droid's 2.2 update

The grass isn't so green on the other side

benny1967
2010-05-25, 07:56
But doesn't that defeat the openness of it all? I think it should be no different from flashing the Sense UI onto a Nexus 1

There's no "openness of it all". The operating system is open. The operating system even comes with an open UI (that you'd have to compile and adapt for your device yourself, though). - Then there's somebody else who puts the operating system on a piece of hardware, does not use the open UI though but replaces it with some closed bits and pieces.

That's what you get in the end.

License-wise, that's still more open than Android for example.

gerbick
2010-05-25, 07:57
So... does this make PR1.2 on the N900 pretty much like Diablo (Maemo 4.1) for the N810... a dead end? Or are their more updates scheduled for Maemo5 after PR1.2?

Oh well. I wonder if that means that the price for the N900 will drop even faster now. It's not getting the next OS officially.

Ouch. You almost got me three times, Nokia. Almost.

taril
2010-05-25, 07:58
This is a sad day. My N900 read this topic, after it simply killed itself. :(

http://www.pikipimp.com/pp/pimped_photo/s/image/52/871/48/SNC00016.jpg?ts=1274771746048

:D

nosa101
2010-05-25, 07:59
So... does this make PR1.2 on the N900 pretty much like Diablo (Maemo 4.1) for the N810... a dead end? Or are their more updates scheduled for Maemo5 after PR1.2?

Oh well. I wonder if that means that the price for the N900 will drop even faster now. It's not getting the next OS officially.

Ouch. You almost got me three times, Nokia. Almost.

Pr 1.3 brings Qt Mobility

switchfiend
2010-05-25, 08:02
wrong its the handset manufactures and carriers not Google they make it put it out its up to handset manufactures to implement it as Google said we make it and release it it not our job to hold peoples hands

Right.... So Meego is putting out a version of their software, and it is up to the "handset manufacturers" (in this case Nokia) to do the work to implement it for their specific device.

The situation isn't any different.

johnel
2010-05-25, 08:05
After reading the post at the beginning of the thread I was gutted.

However, two things spring to mind:
(1) Nokia has never announced an official MeeGo port to the n900
(2) MeeGo is more open source than maemo will ever be.


If we assume that Nokia's "No MeeGo for the n900" means no commercial apps (e.g. skpe, facebook, OVI maps) or Nokia livery (e.g. Nokia logo on startup) then maybe it is not as bad as it sounds.

Maemo's underpinnings is not open source in the slightest. GPS, phone and battery management software is closed-source. You cannot even write a new "phone" app because the "driver" and application are the same thing(?). Not as if you can link your custom phone app to a library and make phone calls.

Non-offical MeeGo seems to be progressing well. As far as I know the MeeGo team are having problems with the battery management and I think they have developed an open source phone library. Most of the work is done. When the foundation is complete any UI can be installed on the top of it.

As long as all the hardware of the n900 is working with MeeGo then there is a good chance a community-based "n900 Linux distro" can be developed and maintained.

If this is the case then Nokia have just "shot themselves in the head" and removed their relevance from MeeGo and any decent chance of a proper "smartphone".

The key thing here is as long as there is an open sourced stack that enables the hardware for the n900 then we can use the device as we see fit.

When Nokia do release a new device based on MeeGo would you seriously recommend it to anyone based on your experiences with the n900?

I would say no and would be unlikely I would buy a "premium" device from Nokia again.

Arpa
2010-05-25, 08:16
Or are their more updates scheduled for Maemo5 after PR1.2?

If I correctly read between the lines there's more updates coming to Maemo5.

I also don't understand why everyone (almost) expected that there should be Maemo6/MeeGo for N900?

1) MeeGo apps will work on N900 whatever OS it's running
2) Maemo is going to have updates and enhancements
3) there's probably going to be unofficial port of MeeGo for the adventurous anyway

I don't deny that I would have been happier if Nokia made end user MeeGo for N900 also, but in the end it's really not that important considering the reasons above. First MeeGo HW is coming out in the end of the year, so N900 is 1 year old already, surely geegs need a new HW fix every year anyway.

S0urcerr0r
2010-05-25, 08:34
No Meego for the N900?

ok. i can put up with that - AS LONG as we will keep getting new Driver updates for a long time to come (or maybe even open source drivers) AND also OS optimizations (speed, reliability and features) for Maemo.

If it turns out that Meego will be blazingly fast (with lower overhead) and total eyecandy with high framerate and NO VSYNC display problems on hardware with the same SoC as the N900 (OMAP3430)... then we should expect equal improvements and speed optimizations for Maemo. Otherwise it will be a big dissappointment.

i remember vividly how the previous tablets got big updates year after year.

qgil
2010-05-25, 08:46
Please notice this thread:

N900 community support for the future MeeGo based release from Nokia (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53551)

geneven
2010-05-25, 08:52
It seems to me cycles are speeding up and obsolescence is coming faster. The N810 was darned near drowned in the N900 hoopla. I would expect there to be even more hoopla over the first MeeGo devices, so I would expect more drowning.

AlMehdi
2010-05-25, 08:55
If I correctly read between the lines there's more updates coming to Maemo5.

I also don't understand why everyone (almost) expected that there should be Maemo6/MeeGo for N900?

1) MeeGo apps will work on N900 whatever OS it's running
2) Maemo is going to have updates and enhancements
3) there's probably going to be unofficial port of MeeGo for the adventurous anyway

I don't deny that I would have been happier if Nokia made end user MeeGo for N900 also, but in the end it's really not that important considering the reasons above. First MeeGo HW is coming out in the end of the year, so N900 is 1 year old already, surely geegs need a new HW fix every year anyway.

Because Nokia have said that Harmattan will be released but not under the name Maemo6.

kojacker
2010-05-25, 08:55
Ahh .. the old "bury a bit of bad news" (MeeGo) "with some good news" (1.2), the oldest trick in marketing ;)

Speaking of marketing..
Let's remember that this all about user experience. Polishing software is a lot of work. Polishing each application for resistive screen (as good as it is) is not trivial considering that we are making the UI for our Nokia product on MeeGo for capacitive screens as we have said already in Maemo Summit 2009.
Riiight.. so what's going to stop every other developer taking the same attitude. I mean, if polishing software is too much work for Nokia with their huge workforce and $$$, how is Joe Bloggs going to manage it with his Qt app? All Im saying is, that from a n900 owners standpoint, it does make a difference if Nokia takes the lead in this.

Sure we have Qt, but the developer of the app still needs to target and compile it for Maemo5. Fast forward, how long will it be before the standard Qt app starts off as a capacitive screen targeted app?

We've seen MeeGo on TVs, netbooks, shopping kiosks and heard it mentioned even for things without a screen. The only difference is it was Intel showing those off :rolleyes:

Please notice this thread:

N900 community support for the future MeeGo based release from Nokia (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53551)
Go Go Gadget Community! :)

nosa101
2010-05-25, 08:57
Ahh .. the old "bury a bit of bad news" (MeeGo) "with some good news" (1.2), the oldest trick in marketing ;)

Speaking of marketing..

Riiight.. so what's going to stop every other developer taking the same attitude. I mean, if polishing software is too much work for Nokia with their huge workforce and $$$, how is Joe Bloggs going to manage it with his Qt app?

Sure we have Qt, but the developer of the app still needs to target and compile it for Maemo5. Fast forward, how long will it be before the standard Qt app starts off as a capacitive screen targeted app?

We've seen MeeGo on TVs, netbooks, shopping kiosks and heard it mentioned even for things without a screen. The only difference is it was Intel showing those off :rolleyes:

Compiling is as easy as clicking a checkbox

johnel
2010-05-25, 08:59
I think many people's problems is that Nokia are very, very bad at communicating with their customers (e.g. until recently the "uncertainty" with "PR1.2").

Maemo is not really open source (e.g. a few closed components).

Also it appears that the n900 will not get the "free" version of OVI maps. It's really frustrating watching the Nokia adverts on the t.v. knowing all Nokia customers can get OVI maps except you.

At least with MeeGo on the n900 I have a chance to own an open source device (in the true sense of the word).

When Nokia abandon the n900 then at least MeeGo will still be developed within the community.

QT will really help too. I can write a python-based QT app and run it on my LInux desktop, MS Windows and my n900 running maemo - without modification.

pelago
2010-05-25, 09:02
Added "(commercial)" to the title, but doesn't seem to load it yet.

Unfortunately users cannot rename their own threads, only moderators can.

horus
2010-05-25, 09:06
With Silverlight & XNA and some guaranteed support, hello Windows Phone 7.

kojacker
2010-05-25, 09:07
Compiling is as easy as clicking a checkbox
Im sorry nosa, what part of my post were you replying to? About the Qt of the future? Are you one of the developers on the Qt project or can just see into the future? :)

An application designed heavily around a capactive screen with multi-touch features, etc etc does not get auto-magically converted to something usable on the n900 by clicking a checkbox. It takes a bit more thought than that :) Simple push a button on the screen uis, maybe.

I guess we'll have to wait and see, time will tell. In the community we trust :)

Helmuth
2010-05-25, 09:07
Let's remember that this all about user experience. Polishing software is a lot of work. Polishing each application for resistive screen (as good as it is) is not trivial considering that we are making the UI for our Nokia product on MeeGo for capacitive screens as we have said already in Maemo Summit 2009.

So, never again a accurate resistive screen from Nokia? :(

nosa101
2010-05-25, 09:11
Im sorry nosa, what part of my post were you replying to? About the Qt of the future? Are you one of the developers on the Qt project or can just see into the future? :)

An application designed heavily around a capactive screen with multi-touch features, etc etc does not get auto-magically converted to something usable on the n900 by clicking a checkbox. It takes a bit more thought than that :)

I'm talking about the compiling issue. I don't know about the future but as it stands, the current Nokia SDK allows you to compile for Symbian or Maemo by clicking a checkbox,

The N8 is a capacitive screen with multi touch and using the current SDK, I can compile the same app for the n8 and n900.

If this is possible, I don't see why it should be so hard when meego comes along

linuxeventually
2010-05-25, 09:13
No surprise here.

I hope Stskeeps and co. are being paid to work on the Meego port (or else why bother).

Lack of and crippled drivers are going to kill the community port of Meego, sorry to say, just like Mer (well that was also lack of focus and direction).

Nokia plays the same bait and switch every time and I'm personally not falling for it. "Open source" except not. Can't call a project truly open source if it's not platform independent.

Partially-open with binary blobs isn't cutting it and I don't know when Nokia, Google, Intel, etc will get this through their heads. Releasing only enough proprietary code to allow your enthusiasts to make a crippled OS is just cruel. This is the software equivalent of carbon credits.

Nokia, Google and [previously] Sony gloat about supporting Linux...yadda yadda yadda, but they simply dangle the carrot, forever out of reach.

The revolution in the mobile OS industry is marketing shenanigans - it's all about keeping a closed loop environment between the handset makers, telecos and the chip manufacturers.

Someday we'll get what we deserve from them, but until then don't keep your hopes up, they just get crushed. =[

Stskeeps
2010-05-25, 09:16
No surprise here.

I hope Stskeeps and co. are being paid to work on the Meego port (or else why bother).

Lack of and crippled drivers are going to kill the community port of Meego, sorry to say, just like Mer (well that was also lack of focus and direction).


Yes, I am and others are too. http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900#The_team_and_the_work isn't a small team. Skilled Nokia kernel guys there too. It's a reference implementation, has to be top notch ;)

benny1967
2010-05-25, 09:17
So, never again a accurate resistive screen from Nokia? :(

hopefully some other company will step in and provide decent hardware for a meego device. ;)

Odeh
2010-05-25, 09:17
i think that's better, first we sure to get meamo updates all the time

second we will able to install meego on n900 unofficially

we will get both

johnel
2010-05-25, 09:19
No surprise here.

I hope Stskeeps and co. are being paid to work on the Meego port (or else why bother).

Lack of and crippled drivers are going to kill the community port of Meego, sorry to say, just like Mer (well that was also lack of focus and direction).

Nokia plays the same bait and switch every time and I'm personally not falling for it. "Open source" except not. Can't call a project truly open source if it's not platform independent.

Partially-open with binary blobs isn't cutting it and I don't know when Nokia, Google, Intel, etc will get this through their heads. Releasing only enough proprietary code to allow your enthusiasts to make a crippled OS is just cruel. This is the software equivalent of carbon credits.

Nokia, Google and [previously] Sony gloat about supporting Linux...yadda yadda yadda, but they simply dangle the carrot, forever out of reach.

The revolution in the mobile OS industry is marketing shenanigans - it's all about keeping a closed loop environment between the handset makers, telecos and the chip manufacturers.

Someday we'll get what we deserve from them, but until then don't keep your hopes up, they just get crushed. =[

There is progress in open versions of the closed components.
In fact We'll know what state MeeGo will be in when it is released end of May:

4. Upcoming Release (qgil, 19:47:02)
1. on the releases.... the 1.0 Release will happen around end of May and will include the Netbook user experience (ImadSousou, 19:49:45)
2. The relase has been branched and is being matured now (qgil, 19:50:30)
3. and from here on out, there will be a release every six months... (ImadSousou, 19:50:40)
4. We are targeting to also ship the Handset UX soon after the May release (qgil, 19:51:36)
5. That won't be part of the 1.0 release but comes on top of that (qgil, 19:52:11)
6. The handset UI framework and key applications (qgil, 19:52:46)
7. and ofcourse with parallel to the software platform development, there is also the SDK development and releases (ImadSousou, 19:53:29)
8. Our next TSG meeting will be May 12 at 19:00 UTC (same time every Wednesday) (DawnFoster, 19:55:23)

woussie
2010-05-25, 09:23
Yeah, speaking as an Android owner whose phone came out about 4 months before the N900, you guys have now officially gotten 1 more software update than I have (and will likely ever get).

So the grass isn't always greener. Be happy the phone is being improved.

I see what your point is, and i agree, the Android grass isn't any greener, the OS does have the same problems in terms of upgrading. However, just because android doesn't supply that feature, doesn't mean that nokia should not try to create an OS which is upgradable. In my opinion, it's wrong to make the assumption "our competitor doesn't have it, so it's ok if we don't have it too". A dedicated company should always try to be AHEAD of it's competitor. Creating an upgradable mobile OS which isn't tied to certain hardware, is one of the biggest challenges in the industry, i think, and it would be wrong to just ignore this challenge. But well, branding an OS to a certain phone is the mentality from the beginning of mobile phones, so it would require a big change in terms of mentality. I know we can't expect that to happen in the near future, but it's a distant goal to look forward to. I really hope for Nokia, that MeeGo will be the next step towards that goal (i'm a bit pessimistic about that though, since in my eyes they are just trying to copy Android on that part - i don't know the exact bits and pieces so i might be wrong though).

Anyway, i didn't expect that my n900 would get an upgrade, after all i bought a "maemo" phone, not a "meego" phone. The only thing i hope is that nokia won't drop support after PR1.2, and that they support Maemo as much as they support Symbian. I hope for one last big gesture, like giving us Ovi Maps and/or Flash10.1, and then my n900 can die happily. Just a gesture, to give us the feeling that Nokia didn't abandon us. Because i think the feeling of abandonment is one of our biggest let-downs, no?

Robb
2010-05-25, 09:23
So is it true to say then, that Nokia is moving away from ARM and into the arms of Intel?
Or are they having 2 (user) OS'es - Meego for Intel based devices and Symbian for ARM devices?

RenegadeFanboy
2010-05-25, 09:28
Let's remember that this all about user experience. Polishing software is a lot of work. Polishing each application for resistive screen (as good as it is) is not trivial considering that we are making the UI for our Nokia product on MeeGo for capacitive screens as we have said already in Maemo Summit 2009.

So, why is this NOT in the NokConv post? Nokia seems to be working as 101 little companies, no harmony whatsoever in marketing.

"The Nokia MeeGo products will be based on capacitive screens, while the N900 has resistive touchscreen, therefore official support is not provided. However, to support our current N900 users and developers, we already released MeeGo 1.0 core for N900 on day/month and we will be releasing MeeGo 1.0 w mobile UI developer release for the Nokia N900 on 1st June. We will be releasing at least 3 more minor and one major Maemo 5 update in 2010." - clear, factual, positive, forward looking, committed

vs.

"It’s really about ensuring that you have the best possible experience designed for the features on your Nokia N900 device. Nokia realises this news may be a disappointment for some, rest assured that Nokia will continue to support the core Maemo software on your Nokia N900, as evidenced by the PR 1.2 (V10.2010.19-1) update available today." - soft, mishmashing, burning in the negative part, avoiding commitment (but claiming it).

linuxeventually
2010-05-25, 09:37
@Robb

Intel is involved as far as the OS goes. As yes there is a split AFAIK.

Meego x86 maintained by Intel with atom processors for UMPCs, tablets and large MIDs.

Meego ARM maintained by Nokia with ARM processors for their small MIDs/Internet Tablets, phones and netbooks.

Nokia isn't naive enough to put x86 chips in their phones, that's battery life suicide. While x86 arch is much more powerful than ARM, it's also much more power hungry. The battery life on the atom processors is a joke, the power and battery drain of a celeron processor. It's the equivalent of putting desktop components into a laptop (a "desktop replacement") get ~1 hour of battery life.

If you don't believe me, there are several x86 phones and you'll notice they advertise 1-2 hours of battery life (and as always, expect less time than they advertise).

Oh and it looks like Nokia is currently developing for Symbian, Meego and Maemo (but phasing out Maemo I imagine).

BLIZZARD
2010-05-25, 09:43
THEN WHY THEY HAVE N900 PICTURE IN THEIR HOME SITE ????
http://meego.com/

johnel
2010-05-25, 09:44
THEN WHY THEY HAVE N900 PICTURE IN THEIR HOME SITE ????
http://meego.com/

Because Nokia Management do not know their arse from their elbow.

acou
2010-05-25, 09:44
I knew it, the same psychological trick as before. When Meego was announced, they quickly released a FW update to calm the waves. Now the same. Looks like they think their customers are r3tard3d.

Hey qgil, remember my post (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=590792#post590792) and they way you brushed it off?

The Nokia schedules for Maemo 5 releases are totally independent from the MeeGo project schedules.

Luckily i never had any illusions about the smelly, rotten world of corporate politics, but i'm sure you will get a ton of thanks for the next "official" bs-pretext.

Never trust a Nokia drone.

jsa
2010-05-25, 09:46
THEN WHY THEY HAVE N900 PICTURE IN THEIR HOME SITE ????
http://meego.com/

Because Nokia Management do not know their arse from their elbow.

Or maybe because it'll be the official reference platform for MeeGo on ARM?

Glasswalker
2010-05-25, 09:48
You act as if porting an OS to a device is an easy task. Maemo, despite a surface appearance of openness, contain quite a few closed source components without which huge chunks of basic functionality are missing and have to be reimplemented. To date, there isn't really a viable community supported release of Maemo for any of the Nokia devices. It is small wonder almost no 3rd party manufacturers have attempted to make a device based on Maemo, while it is hard not to trip on all the new android devices coming out near daily.

I didn't say that it will be just a recompile. But as the N900 is ATM the developmentplatform for MeeGothe essential drivers and binary blobs should be there....

Regards,
Glasswalker

johnel
2010-05-25, 09:50
Or maybe because it'll be the official reference platform for MeeGo on ARM?

But not an official Nokia MeeGo device!
:)

On a serious note, can the ARM-based MeeGo images run in a QEMU virtual environment?

kaz911
2010-05-25, 09:53
If Nokia was google:

1. N900 would be the first platform to get upgrades and features (Like Nexus One)
2. We would have an APP market and developers who gave a s***

now since Maemo is "cancelled" who will develop commercial software for the N900 (a single device)

If I had a blender I know where my N900 would be right now. But for you US guys who have bought a phone on a new platform - that has been discontinued even before the platform is 7 months old - I do think you have "legal" options to get a full refund.

But that was my last Nokia device - now Nokia can go and jump in an ocean somewhere.

qgil
2010-05-25, 09:58
Hey qgil, remember my post (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=590792#post590792) and they way you brushed it off?

Of course I do, and I will repeat it again:

The Nokia schedules for Maemo 5 releases are totally independent from the MeeGo project schedules.

This I know well.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 10:01
If Nokia was google:

1. N900 would be the first platform to get upgrades and features (Like Nexus One)
2. We would have an APP market and developers who gave a s***

now since Maemo is "cancelled" who will develop commercial software for the N900 (a single device)

If I had a blender I know where my N900 would be right now. But for you US guys who have bought a phone on a new platform - that has been discontinued even before the platform is 7 months old - I do think you have "legal" options to get a full refund.

But that was my last Nokia device - now Nokia can go and jump in an ocean somewhere.
So what happens to Qt apps?

GEONXT
2010-05-25, 10:11
This is a very sad outcome. I was on the fence reg my next phone. thanks you for helping me make up my mind.

NeoPain
2010-05-25, 10:18
This is the stupidest move of Nokia they ever did, so many People got this Phone, so why will they not support Meego for this Device.

Fact is, when Meego will be released and the first Device for it, the support for Maemo will slowly drop to null.

Maemo will be forgotten and the focus of Nokia and Intel will be Meego, thanks Nokia, I paid 600€ for a dying Device.

I will never buy a Nokia Device again, In fact my next Phone will be IPhone.

Jack6428
2010-05-25, 10:19
Let's remember that this all about user experience. Polishing software is a lot of work. Polishing each application for resistive screen (as good as it is) is not trivial considering that we are making the UI for our Nokia product on MeeGo for capacitive screens as we have said already in Maemo Summit 2009.

I somewhat expected MeeGo not to be officialy on the N900. I am fine with that as long as you bring Flash 10.1 and portrait conversations in future updates, along with the assurance that most MeeGo apps will run on Maemo 5. I hope I don't expect too much. Still, thanks for finally releasing PR1.2, I'm glad it is finally out :)

qwerty12
2010-05-25, 10:19
So what happens to Qt apps?

What about them?

Qt does make running a program on a different device a whole lot easier (I mean, I had the time of my life bringing some GTK applications from Diablo to Fremantle; having to use the hildon_gtk_* functions just so that I could get properly styled buttons etc. for one) but:

a. You're fooling yourself if all Qt apps are going to be linked to libraries that have equivalents under Fremantle;
b. If (commercial) Meego's UI is going to be designed for cap. screens, what's to stop people making their own apps for Meego from doing the same?
c. Qt is not magic. Whilst it does a much better job than GTK+ ever did (and I prefer GTK programming a hell of a lot more to Qt programming) in terms of cross-platform compat., it is not magic. Changes will still have to be made. And, let's face it, with this announcement, who the **** is going to buy the N900 now compared to the shiny, new Meego device they could get?

AlMehdi
2010-05-25, 10:21
I knew it, the same psychological trick as before. When Meego was announced, they quickly released a FW update to calm the waves. Now the same. Looks like they think their customers are r3tard3d.

Hey qgil, remember my post (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=590792#post590792) and they way you brushed it off?



Luckily i never had any illusions about the smelly, rotten world of corporate politics, but i'm sure you will get a ton of thanks for the next "official" bs-pretext.

Never trust a Nokia drone.

What are you talking about? The situation is the same now as before. You will be able to install MeGoo on the n900 but it will not be an OTA. So nothing needs to be calmed down and nothing have changed. This is the only thing nokia have said. So quit the BS.

johnel
2010-05-25, 10:23
So what happens to Qt apps?

QT apps are the only constant in this whole affair.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 10:32
The addition of qt 4.6 is supposed to extend the n900's life. The n900 should get ports of the apps that come with the n8

Rocketman
2010-05-25, 10:46
And, let's face it, with this announcement, who the **** is going to buy the N900 now compared to the shiny, new Meego device they could get?
[/LIST]

No, the question is who the **** is going to buy anything for $600 from Nokia given the poor treatment users have received time and again? The 770 situation sucked, but was justifiable, but there is really no excuse for abandoning the N900 this early in its life-cycle.

harrihakulinen
2010-05-25, 10:46
THEN WHY THEY HAVE N900 PICTURE IN THEIR HOME SITE ????
http://meego.com/

Please check the thread "MeeGo hardware adaptation for N900"

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53571

Br,
//Harri

Frappacino
2010-05-25, 10:52
hahaha - at least they gave a proper answer this time

so n900 officially a dead end device now, only get token support from now on. If you think otherwise I got a big bridge in Sydney I would like to sell you.

community port ? hah - 10 to 1 I bet you the paid app market will not work on the n900 Meego port. There will be theoretical "compatibility", but good luck getting it in practice.

why will ANYONE recommend the n900 to anyone but a hardcore linux geek ? hah

no wonder they didnt give a straight answer earlier, they wanted it released with PR1.2 to "soften" the blow.

what a joke. F you Nokia

daemonfin
2010-05-25, 10:53
so n900 officially a dead end device now.

No it isn´t because of QTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!"

nosa101
2010-05-25, 10:58
Do you want MeeGo because it brings new apps or because it is new and shiny?

ysss
2010-05-25, 11:00
hahaha - at least they gave a proper answer this time

so n900 officially a dead end device now, only get token support from now on. If you think otherwise I got a big bridge in Sydney I would like to sell you.

community port ? hah - 10 to 1 I bet you the paid app market will not work on the n900 Meego port. There will be theoretical "compatibility", but good luck getting it in practice.

why will ANYONE recommend the n900 to anyone but a hardcore linux geek ? hah

no wonder they didnt give a straight answer earlier, they wanted it released with PR1.2 to "soften" the blow.

what a joke. F you Nokia

Hahah... although I don't look forward to the inflamatory responses you may get with that tone, I agree with *95% of your post;

*Margin of error is ±5 percentage points.

stonda
2010-05-25, 11:02
so n900 officially a dead end device now, only get token support from now on.

why will ANYONE recommend the n900 to anyone but a hardcore linux geek ? hah

If you actually think this twice, no other Nokia handset device has had the opportunity to actually upgrade the OS. Why they should even provide this option in any case if there are serious QA issues to be considered to ensure smooth transition to MeeGo/Maemo 6?

If you want your MeeGo on N900, support the community behind it instead of spreading the FUD. Even if it takes some extra steps to perform a OS upgrade on development snapshots. Embrace what we have now, Stskeeps, Harri and rest of the folks are doing a tremendous job on ensuring compatibility with N900 for MeeGo. Be sure to thank them later on.

AlMehdi
2010-05-25, 11:04
No, the question is who the **** is going to buy anything for $600 from Nokia given the poor treatment users have received time and again? The 770 situation sucked, but was justifiable, but there is really no excuse for abandoning the N900 this early in its life-cycle.

Who have said anything about abanoning the n900 early except trolls like you? Not Nokia anyway..

myeyegooogles
2010-05-25, 11:07
You have to remember that the N900 is an internet mobile device and nothing more. If you wanted apps and games to spend your money on then you bought the wrong device.

Whether or not Meego comes to N900 doesn't really matter that much to me. My N900 serves its purpose as the best internet mobile device, nothing out right now can beat its experience.

The only thing I'm waiting for is Flash 10.1, then we might have a problem, lol!

tissot
2010-05-25, 11:09
I can't say i care the least. We will actually have more applications than MeeGo from the start and all applications working on MeeGo will work on Maemo 5 because of PR1.2.

MeeGos home screen alone is build for multitouch because of the big "canvas" so i'm not sure how that would look on N900.

Frappacino
2010-05-25, 11:10
hey mate its only reality. Anyone who disagrees with my "tone" is a naive fool - corporations ONLY respond to the bottom line. Thats how capitalism works. Nokia will NOT provide proper support as long as customers are willing to pay for vapor support. Those who "believe" that Nokia will do the "right thing" are destined to be the sheeple of this world.

So from now on, do not ever buy Nokia on promises EVER, only buy Nokia if you are satisfied with that device NOW. Tell your friends Nokia = 0 support, and that if they want proper customer service with their high end smart phone buy an Android or Apple.

On the other hand if they are after a low end commodity phone that needs no support, or if they are geeks who can DYI, then Nokia is definitely an option.

Thats they only way Nokia will ever learn, if they totally and utterly fail in the smart phone arena where support and the ecosystem is important.

Oh well, sometimes it sucks to be proven right.

Crashdamage
2010-05-25, 11:13
...there is really no excuse for abandoning the N900 this early in its life-cycle.
I'm just about to get a major OTA update and no doubt lotsa new apps will be available. I'm happy with the situation.

No, I don't feel 'abandoned' at all. And after all, what will MeeGo offer in the next couple of years I don't have with Maemo, especially after PR1.2?

AlMehdi
2010-05-25, 11:14
hahaha - at least they gave a proper answer this time

so n900 officially a dead end device now, only get token support from now on. If you think otherwise I got a big bridge in Sydney I would like to sell you.

community port ? hah - 10 to 1 I bet you the paid app market will not work on the n900 Meego port. There will be theoretical "compatibility", but good luck getting it in practice.

why will ANYONE recommend the n900 to anyone but a hardcore linux geek ? hah

no wonder they didnt give a straight answer earlier, they wanted it released with PR1.2 to "soften" the blow.

what a joke. F you Nokia

They didn't say anything they haven't said before. The MeGoo will not be a OTA upgrade for n900. But it will still be possible to do it manually. Also.. i would recommend it as the n900 is the best device out there right now. And will probably be a great device in the future too. So stop the BS please.

tissot
2010-05-25, 11:16
hey mate its only reality. Anyone who disagrees with my "tone" is a naive fool - corporations ONLY respond to the bottom line. Thats how capitalism works. Nokia will NOT provide proper support as long as customers are willing to pay for vapor support. Those who "believe" that Nokia will do the "right thing" are destined to be the sheeple of this world.

So from now on, do not ever buy Nokia on promises EVER, only buy Nokia if you are satisfied with that device NOW. Tell your friends Nokia = 0 support, and that if they want proper customer service with their high end smart phone buy an Android or Apple.

On the other hand if they are after a low end commodity phone that needs no support, or if they are geeks who can DYI, then Nokia is definitely an option.

Thats they only way Nokia will ever learn, if they totally and utterly fail in the smart phone arena where support and the ecosystem is important.

Oh well, sometimes it sucks to be proven right.

Thought neither are the ones using Android phones getting the updates to the newest Android. Some do some don't. Apple is not updating the first iphone while Nokia still updated N95 3 months ago.

The thing is you will have all the same applications than MeeGo, plus the appliations that Maemo 5 got that MeeGo can't even run after PR1.2. PR1.2 is the most important support Nokia can give because it brings Qt4.6 and that's the whole Nokia smartphone future on Harmattan/MeeGo and on S^3, S^4.

Sometimes especially in the net people sink too much to the feelings rather than actually thinking what the names and stuff people throw actually mean.

johnel
2010-05-25, 11:16
As long as Meego fully supports the n900 hardware and ideally the device drivers are open source then MeeGo and n900 have a long future.

AlMehdi
2010-05-25, 11:22
Oh well, sometimes it sucks to be proven right.

The only thing you have been successful at is to have been proven wrong.. lol! So stop the trolling please.

AlMehdi
2010-05-25, 11:24
As long as Meego fully supports the n900 hardware and ideally the device drivers are open source then MeeGo and n900 have a long future.

As the n900 is the "test" device for MeeGo this has already been proven. Also Nokia got a squad working at it.

Blackbagz
2010-05-25, 11:24
I've said on many occasions, i'm not overly worried about not having meego on my n900. i'm more than happy with this handset as it is (even more so now i've successfully received pr1.2!!). when my contract is due up for renewal, i will consider what device to get next, and no it's not the n8 which to me is a backward step from maemo. more than likely it will be the new meego device...i'm patient! :)

johnel
2010-05-25, 11:28
A new thread has been started:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=675362#post675362

Unfortunately it seems the 2 stumbling blocks are the battery manage software and openGLES drives are closed source.

Without working implementations then MeeGo is a NoGo.

Frappacino
2010-05-25, 11:41
i shake my head at you guys. Do you actually work in a business where there is a bottom line ? It is clear the line of thought that went into these decisions.

do you really think the ecosystem they build for meego will work for the n900 ?

qt is not the most important support (nobody but a geek gives a toss about qt). Qt compatibility means nothing to a non-power user. It is access to apps in the official ecosystem that matters. Apple taught EVERYONE that. Goog is following them with android.

The most important support is an assurance that the n900 will be able to participate in the official ecosystem that they will build for Meego, PERIOD. Nothing else matters. And only an official release of Meego OR an explicit statement from Nokia (hah if you believe them) is any assurance of this.

What you will get is more unsupported apps through Qt compatibility if the vendors are kind enough. And some more apps from the community who are kind enough to port them, thats it.

But official support from the big vendors ? lolers. That is GONE with no Meego.

No new version of flash (watch as the n900 loses access to websites as they upgrade to v10), no google maps, no official games.

I will eat my words if Qt compatilibty causes the big vendors to release official versions of their apps for the n900.

Trolling ? BS ? Fear mongering ?

I shake my head at some of you. If you are a geek who wants to tinker then the n900 is the uberchoice. But you cross the line to fanboy if you think the n900 at this stage is good for anything else.

But those who believe Qt compatibility will make the n900 even a vague shadow of the other eco

AlMehdi
2010-05-25, 11:56
i shake my head at you guys. Do you actually work in a business where there is a bottom line ? It is clear the line of thought that went into these decisions.

do you really think the ecosystem they build for meego will work for the n900 ?

qt is not the most important support (nobody but a geek gives a toss about qt). Qt compatibility means nothing to a non-power user. It is access to apps in the official ecosystem that matters. Apple taught EVERYONE that. Goog is following them with android.

The most important support is an assurance that the n900 will be able to participate in the official ecosystem that they will build for Meego, PERIOD. Nothing else matters. And only an official release of Meego OR an explicit statement from Nokia (hah if you believe them) is any assurance of this.

What you will get is more unsupported apps through Qt compatibility if the vendors are kind enough. And some more apps from the community who are kind enough to port them, thats it.

But official support from the big vendors ? lolers. That is GONE with no Meego.

No new version of flash (watch as the n900 loses access to websites as they upgrade to v10), no google maps, no official games.

I will eat my words if Qt compatilibty causes the big vendors to release official versions of their apps for the n900.

Trolling ? BS ? Fear mongering ?

I shake my head at some of you. If you are a geek who wants to tinker then the n900 is the uberchoice. But you cross the line to fanboy if you think the n900 at this stage is good for anything else.

But those who believe Qt compatibility will make the n900 even a vague shadow of the other eco

Lol!.. you are still writing even when you already have been proven wrong.

This thread could be useful for you to read: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=675362#post675362

Read this too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Apple are for kids.. the only thing might be as good as MeGoo/Maemo is Android.

h3llraz0r
2010-05-25, 12:30
Nokia has done it again.

Another POS phone in my hands. I guess this will be the final major update.

Goodbye Nokia

russo_br
2010-05-25, 12:33
For me that's not a surprise, but now I can say for sure I will avoid Nokia devices for the rest of my life!!!

Maemo 5 is just 6 months old and it is being abandoned, no matter what Nokia or fanboys say about getting incremental upgrades.... PR1.2 was so late because it is the last big update, from now just critical bug corrections!! We already can see that now by Flash 10.1 support... only for Meego...

Even if Meego is the better OS out there, I will be sure to buy it from some other supplier like HTC. I've been a Nokia fan for a long time but now I just can't see any advantage compared to competitors...

StOoZ
2010-05-25, 12:44
does it mean that we are not going to see flash 10.1 as well??

jsa
2010-05-25, 12:46
What way too many people here miss is that "not commercially supported" does not negate "fully working".

woussie
2010-05-25, 12:55
Maemo 5 is just 6 months old and it is being abandoned, no matter what Nokia or fanboys say about getting incremental upgrades.... PR1.2 was so late because it is the last big update, from now just critical bug corrections!! We already can see that now by Flash 10.1 support... only for Meego..

Please note that your words are nothing more than pure speculation. As a matter of fact, all we can do now is speculate. But please don't act like your words are facts!

switch2ux
2010-05-25, 13:22
First of all I want to state that I do like the Maemo desktop a lot more than all I have seen from Meego till now but ...

as a matter of fact NOKIA promised to release Meego on the N900 during the Nokia developers forum (Nokia Mobile Monday) at FH Hagenberg on the 5th of march.

It doesn't bother me that Meego will not be released on the N900 because I do not like it anyway but I'm REALLY disappointed about the lie.

Venemo
2010-05-25, 13:30
Although Nokia N900 devices are being used for platform development and testing purposes by those involved in the MeeGo project, we don’t have plans for a full scale commercial MeeGo upgrade on the Nokia N900.

Okay, we knew this for 3 months already.
What's new?

ysss
2010-05-25, 13:36
Community support is fine and dandy, but as we can see from the previous attempt; they're not the speediest release around.

I can understand this, given there's not much incentive to put effort into it and a generally shrinking userbase don't help either.

jsa
2010-05-25, 13:38
First of all I want to state that I do like the Maemo desktop a lot more than all I have seen from Meego till now but ...

as a matter of fact NOKIA promised to release Meego on the N900 during the Nokia developers forum (Nokia Mobile Monday) at FH Hagenberg on the 5th of march.

It doesn't bother me that Meego will not be released on the N900 because I do not like it anyway but I'm REALLY disappointed about the lie.

It will be released on the N900! What it won't be is commercially supported. If you flash MeeGo on it, Nokia Care won't be holding your hand through it.

Kajko
2010-05-25, 13:56
One word: disappointment.

I have supported Nokia for years. No more.

Jack6428
2010-05-25, 13:59
What pisses me off more than the fact that MeeGo won't be on the N900, is the attitude and approach of Nokia - full of lies, if and maybe - or no communication at all. I loved Nokia for many years, but this just I simply hate, with any manufacturer.

ysss
2010-05-25, 14:02
Commercial MeeGo?
Or Official?

jsa
2010-05-25, 14:02
What pisses me off more than the fact that MeeGo won't be on the N900, is the attitude and approach of Nokia - full of lies, if and maybe - or no communication at all. I loved Nokia for many years, but this just I simply hate, with any manufacturer.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53551

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53571

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50763

AlMehdi
2010-05-25, 14:14
Are some people purly stupid or do they not read what other people say. Seams like some just vent their dissapointment regardless what have been said in the thread. These thing have also been pointed out for a month or so already. That MeeGo will not come as an OTA to n900. If you want it you will need to flash it manually. Nokia are working on it matter of fact. There will also maybe be a dual boot solution though nothing is pomised. So what is all the fuzz?

switch2ux
2010-05-25, 14:16
It will be released on the N900! What it won't be is commercially supported. If you flash MeeGo on it, Nokia Care won't be holding your hand through it.

This was also a question from one of the people (developer?) at the conference and the answer was ... "FULL OFFICIAL SUPPORT for Meego on the N900" - I was there!!

DrSteve
2010-05-25, 14:18
I have no doubt that there will be a perfectly usable version of MeeGo for the N900. And community-supported may be better than Nokia-supported after all.

The idea that it might be more difficult to find a fresher distro for my N900 than for my Zaurus (for example) even years after product launch is laughable. Heck, there will probably be 3-4 specialized versions available. They're using the N900 as the ARM reference platform for MeeGo, for goodness' sakes.

fatalsaint
2010-05-25, 14:23
Do you want MeeGo because it brings new apps or because it is new and shiny?

I want it because no matter how long Nokia promises support for Maemo.. the fact is MeeGo will be supported long after Maemo is dead (assuming, of course, that PR1.2 wasn't the final nail in the coffin).

Granted, ultimately, if my phone receives periodic updates for the next 1.5 years or so before dying then it probably won't matter as I'll be in the market for a new phone then anyway as I'm sure the new phone will control my shiney new flying car while starting my toaster from home and I can press the "record" button to automatically start recording my DVR at home.

But, MeeGo will still be alive longer than Maemo, so I would have liked to have received the MeeGo OS on my N900 prior to having to buy a new device.

Of course... I most likely will be running MeeGo anyway.. because "devel" and "community" doesn't scare me. I am awaiting at least a rudimentary Handheld UX release from the Linux Foundation, free, MeeGo that I was hoping was coming in the next short while but recent posts have suggested I might have a few more months. Once I see the direction of the UX, I'll decide if it's worth flashing my phone with it.

range
2010-05-25, 14:35
Let's remember that this all about user experience. Polishing software is a lot of work. Polishing each application for resistive screen (as good as it is) is not trivial considering that we are making the UI for our Nokia product on MeeGo for capacitive screens as we have said already in Maemo Summit 2009.

Well, not staying with a resistive screen was the other bad decision. Even back then.

No1cromo
2010-05-25, 14:38
well now lets hope that they do continue to support maemo and not turn round at the next release and go "you know what narrr we can't be arsed with it anymore"

Crashdamage
2010-05-25, 14:44
This was also a question from one of the people (developer?) at the conference and the answer was ... "FULL OFFICIAL SUPPORT for Meego on the N900" - I was there!!
What Nokia has said several times is that there will be full official support for developer-only versions of MeeGo on the N900 because the N900 is the official ARM development platform.

They have never promised, nor should anyone who actually read information provided in many places many times have ever expected, to provide a commercial - i.e. fully finished end-user-ready version of MeeGo for the N900.

Nokia has promised the N900 will not be forgotten and support will continue, though they have not specified just how long. They have kept that promise as the release of PR1.2 shows. And with the N900 just being released in more major markets such as India, no doubt support will continue for quite a while to come.

As I've said here several times, getting MeeGo is of no concern as far as the usefelness of the N900 is concerned. Qt 4.6 is what really matters.

range
2010-05-25, 14:54
Do you want MeeGo because it brings new apps or because it is new and shiny?

Because of the ofono stack which supposedly is in there, would be one "want" for me.

Dak
2010-05-25, 15:02
Nokia have serious business concerns related to the finite assets they have to maintain OS/app products across platforms.

If their new devices offer significantly different hardware, and usability features, then deciding to not officially support MeeGo (loathe the crappy name btw) on earlier devices is hardly unreasonable.

I'm not discouraged. Porting such things to alternate platforms has never been a problem for a determined open source community. If the most significant change is the capacitive/multitouch screen, I doubt it'll be too much of a problem - we can virtualize multitouch on the N900 and the underlying MeeGo OS will not know the difference.

Other hardware features...digital compass, perhaps...may simply have to be disabled and let those chips fall where they may, with respect to app behavior.

One way or another, if MeeGo is worth porting, it'll happen.

dagger
2010-05-25, 15:03
Because of the ofono stack which supposedly is in there, would be one "want" for me.


There's NOTHING stopping you from installing ofono on maemo!

range
2010-05-25, 15:42
There's NOTHING stopping you from installing ofono on maemo!

Well. Except the closed source phone stack which is already there?

Brock
2010-05-25, 15:49
Hello,

i dont know if everybody is informed about a new (bad) news about the future of our n900...

Today i have read a german article that nokia will NOT support meego on the n900!

Here is the link
http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/
-------------------------------------------------------
here is the important part of the text:
Moving away from the update and to look at MeeGo and the Nokia N900. Many of you have been asking whether the new MeeGo platform will be supported on the N900 once it’s device-ready. Although Nokia N900 devices are being used for platform development and testing purposes by those involved in the MeeGo project, Nokia doesn’t have plans for a full scale commercial MeeGo upgrade on the Nokia N900. The reason? It’s really about ensuring that you have the best possible experience designed for the features on your Nokia N900 device. Nokia realises this news may be a disappointment for some, rest assured that Nokia will continue to support the core Maemo software on your Nokia N900, as evidenced by the PR 1.2 (V10.2010.19-1) update available today.
-------------------------------------------------------

What the f*** is nokia doing with us. we have bought a very expensive device and now we can search for another device with support for meego??

I think that this is one of the most bad things nokia could do, becuase now a lot of people who are creating apps wont do it anymore if nokia always cant do what they said they will...

And this could be my last nokia phone either, the phones of htc (desire) are much better then anything nokia has created since now.

wmarone
2010-05-25, 15:51
Nokia has -never- promised an official upgrade path to MeeGo. PR1.2 introduces Qt 4.6, which MeeGo's UI is based on, as a compatibility point between the two OSes.

There will likely be an unofficial developer and community supported release (I hope) of MeeGo on the N900, but time will tell how that pans out.

sachin007
2010-05-25, 15:52
I dont have time to read all the previous posts. But i understand nokia cannot give us the commerical release but what about:

1 Adobe 10.1
2. Skype updates
3. Gtalk updates

Will we atleast get commercial backing for licensing these stuff for furture meego community releases?

Dave999
2010-05-25, 15:54
who wants to use the n900 in 1,5 years time when nokia is done with meego?

Hopefully you can test meego on n900 before and see if you really like it or not. chill ;)

silvermountain
2010-05-25, 15:57
"Moving away from the update and to look at MeeGo and the Nokia N900. Many of you have been asking whether the new MeeGo platform will be supported on the N900 once it’s device-ready. Although Nokia N900 devices are being used for platform development and testing purposes by those involved in the MeeGo project, we don’t have plans for a full scale commercial MeeGo upgrade on the Nokia N900. The reason? It’s really about ensuring that you have the best possible experience designed for the features on your Nokia N900 device. Nokia realises this news may be a disappointment for some, rest assured that Nokia will continue to support the core Maemo software on your Nokia N900, as evidenced by the PR 1.2 (V10.2010.19-1) update available today."

http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/



As an N810 owner I feel much closer to you N900 users today.

Welcome to the world of unsupported and officially dropped [read: forgotten and ignored by Nokia] legacy devices.

sjgadsby
2010-05-25, 15:57
The thread "no official meego for n900 users :( (loved Nokia before, now they suck!!)" with three posts has been merged into this thread.

atilla
2010-05-25, 15:58
Finish nokia!!!!!!!!!!!

sjgadsby
2010-05-25, 16:03
Finish nokia!!!!!!!!!!!

You're one "n" short.

wmarone
2010-05-25, 16:09
As an N810 owner I feel much closer to you N900 users today.

Welcome to the world of unsupported and officially dropped [read: forgotten and ignored by Nokia] legacy devices.

Yeah because this totally proves your point. Except it doesn't.

imperiallight
2010-05-25, 16:11
Tragic, kind of thing that made me never want to touch a Win Mo 7 handset based on their treatment of Win Mo 6.5 users.

Same thing happened on the upgrade path with the HD2 to Win 7.

Apple excels in this regard and anyone who doesn't agree can ....

silvermountain
2010-05-25, 16:22
Yeah because this totally proves your point. Except it doesn't.

I like your style of debating. I give it 10/10 !

cyeung
2010-05-25, 16:25
I'm hoping that Nokia would at at least provide a "binary blob" that would make the phone functionality and hardware work for MeeGo. After that, I want to see what the community can do.

wmarone
2010-05-25, 16:26
I like your style of debating. I give it 10/10 !

I'm just tired of hearing people proclaiming that "you N900 users are now unsupported, just like us" constantly. Or worse yet, as Nokia actually releases updates.

I'll agree with you when Nokia stops selling the N900, the warranty period for the last N900 passes, and Nokia kills a PR release in its tracks.

Otherwise it's just needless fearmongering on a topic that Nokia has -never- claimed to support.

Patroclo
2010-05-25, 17:20
Why Nokia should give Meego to the n900 owners?
Who wants MeeGo shall buy the new phone (hardware) with MeeGo.
Nokia is a company, so has to sell, sell, sell, and not to give, give, give (free).

Laughing Man
2010-05-25, 17:35
This thread really demonstrates who reads and who doesn't.

NvyUs
2010-05-25, 17:45
why are people saying that Google and Apple offer updates to existing phones but nokia dont.
they are just updating a existing OS same as nokia do with PR 1.1 and PR 1.2.
no mobile device as ever had an official update to a completely different Operating System, they just fix bugs and add new features to the one existing on the devices, NOKIA have been doing this for years but it seems to made into a big deal if your google or apple

slaapliedje
2010-05-25, 17:58
Wow, I can't seriously believe how much like little children most of you are.

Those who are saying "Oh, PR1.2 was SO late!", obviously you have never waited for any other software before. Especially Linux Distributions.

Anyone who has ever followed the progress of a Linux Distro, especially one like Debian which Maemo is based upon, will know that when they switch toolkits or even major version upgrade of the same toolkit, it takes time to re-compile everything, and to get it all working right.

I specifically mention Debian because they are a 'release when it's ready' distribution.

Honestly, Qt 4.6 itself hasn't been out that long, we've gotten 3 updates to the N900 within 5 months. Do you even remotely realize how often most other phones get updates?

Really, the only reason to want MeeGo at all was for Qt 4.6. It's RPM based, so any of the nice apt-get stuff will not be possible, yum has slightly different commands, so you'll be learning new things. Not to mention that apt has been historically faster than yum. Apt on the N900 is really slow in comparison, so I could only imagine the pain of using Yum....

From what other posts have said, the hardware support is already done or very close to being finished for MeeGo on the N900.

There is already the Meego Image Creator under Arch Linux. I haven't gotten it to install yet because the repos are empty, the option is certainly there to play around with it!

So stop all your whining, and hope that Nokia will port over Flash10.1, which really is the only other thing I expect them to do at this point.

slaapliedje

resplendent2209
2010-05-25, 18:11
Flash and Ovi Maps is all what I want.

lpotter
2010-05-25, 18:38
There you go its a bleak story yet again from a company that only cares about money forget people !.

Actually, the people in Nokia DO care about people.

Just because Meego on n900 may not be "officially supported upgrade" does not mean it won't run on it.

But, besides, that did you ever think that Meego might not be ready yet? and it might not be ready in the near future? Are you really ready to wait that long?

lpotter
2010-05-25, 19:00
"rest assured that Nokia will continue to support the core Maemo software on your Nokia N900"

So is that going to be like the assurance we got for the n810 platform?.....or more like death in under 9 month and your outdated device gets laughed at.

hmm. I'm pretty sure my n770, my n800, and my n810 are still running fine and did not magically stop when I got a n900.


Nokia is the most pathetic incompetent pack of losers to ever walk into an IT room or get in the market.

huumm.. ok. Then why are you here, posting on that "pathetic incompetent pack of losers" forum?



With hopes of being truely "open" after relying on the market on zero innovation and a 100% reliance on Symbian they are losing market share and running scarred for the hill.

Actually, the n900 is the worlds first mobile phone that does video skype calls. I even accidentally found out when my brother called on on skype several weeks ago. (yes, I was using a testing version)


You know what, keep your MeeGo, Intel is going to create their own locked down OS built especially for their Moorestown chip and MeeGo is just going to be a bridge gaper along with Android. Which, might I add, are just about light years ahead of you, at least they support the user who shells out the $500 for your unfinished device. And Apple? They are in a different universe comparing to you.


Wow, you must not know the history of the iPhone if you think it wasn't released as an unfinished product. *cough* bluetooth.


You know as much as I hate em and how much they get bashed by zealot users on this site, you can still install any new app on your very first iphone 8bg that you bought back in 2006 to this day and it runs at near identical speeds.


That's because they haven't changed the OS at all.


One more thing, I've had my posts deleted before, posts that were not insulting that were not violating any rules set in place, why were they deleted, because they were not favorable to Nokia. So if any of you folks feel that Nokia is going to be something more "open" in the future, your lying to yourself.


all I can say is, 'wait for it'...


My personal take on the future is that open is going to all close, minus maybe openmoko. And the closes that anyone is going to get to being truely "open" and at the same time competent, it is going to be the Android platform. Currently Nokia cannot satisfy even one of those....

/rant

and how far did Openmoko get?
Apparently, you do not know how open qt development is, or that Symbian was open sourced.

Sarcastic_Twit
2010-05-25, 19:10
hmm. I'm pretty sure my n770, my n800, and my n810 are still running fine and did not magically stop when I got a n900.


Why did you upgrade from n770, n800, n810 to n900?

ZShakespeare
2010-05-25, 19:15
Is this really a bad thing? Oh boy, I'm sure going to miss that wonderful ovi services integration I currently enjoy, and the feature rich Nokia applications that come on the device!

If vanilla meego on the n900 is any LESS functional than maemo, Intel and Nokia might as well throw in the towel right now.

lpotter
2010-05-25, 19:19
What pisses me off more than the fact that MeeGo won't be on the N900, is the attitude and approach of Nokia - full of lies, if and maybe - or no communication at all. I loved Nokia for many years, but this just I simply hate, with any manufacturer.

Well, possibly, just possibly, Meego is still a work on the [black/white]board and is still being planned out. Which would explain not having anything to communicate about. "Oh this week we decided that the messaging app would have menu system on it with nice little icons. Next week we'll decide on which icons" <- is this type of thing news to communicate?

Work is just starting on Meego. Do you think it's going to magically appear out of nowhere, fully spit polished and ready for your grandma's use? Are you willing to just wait that long for your Meego powered n900?

lpotter
2010-05-25, 19:23
No, the question is who the **** is going to buy anything for $600 from Nokia given the poor treatment users have received time and again? The 770 situation sucked, but was justifiable, but there is really no excuse for abandoning the N900 this early in its life-cycle.

ehhh.. didn't you just get an update?

lpotter
2010-05-25, 19:30
hahaha - at least they gave a proper answer this time

so n900 officially a dead end device now, only get token support from now on. If you think otherwise I got a big bridge in Sydney I would like to sell you.

wow, there's a few here in Brisbane that need to be sold, too...
Did your n900 magically just stop working with this news?


community port ? hah - 10 to 1 I bet you the paid app market will not work on the n900 Meego port. There will be theoretical "compatibility", but good luck getting it in practice.

nice supposition, but probably wrong. Ever heard of Qt?


why will ANYONE recommend the n900 to anyone but a hardcore linux geek ? hah

no wonder they didnt give a straight answer earlier, they wanted it released with PR1.2 to "soften" the blow.

what a joke. F you Nokia

Yep, it's all a big conspiracy. Against you.

resplendent2209
2010-05-25, 19:33
Any idea when the update comes to US people, I mean what time?

mikecomputing
2010-05-25, 19:34
Sorry for my poor english but I must say something about this endless discussion about Meego not official supported by Nokia :-)

I dont get why people complaining that mush about Meego not official supported on N900 :-S We should be glad that N900 atleast has SOME support! Cause I am sure Nokia doesnt do that mush money on this phone. The fact is this phone is for linuxgeeks. It already IS the best geekphone so far :-) Android has not a chance if you prefer openess, and not a broken Linux as in the Android case.

Imho, I dont care at all if Meego will be officially released. I love maemo OS :-) There is no big difference between Maemo and Meego both are Linux only different "dists".

* Mostly the same UI toolkit (QT/Gtk)
* Linux kernel and probadly most of the backend librarys like DBUS and so on is probadly the same. Except Maemo version of linux is optimized for ARM.
* The OSS community will for sure release a version for N900 cause thats how the OSS works...

Difference:

I think (but not sure) that the linux kernel for meego is heavy optimized for the new embedded Intel CPU:s atm. and that maybe a reason why Meego will not be official supported on N900 cause it is ARM based. And again it costs alot of money to support it by Nokia. Ofcourse Apple can support phones that is old but there is a BIG difference why they can support it:

* They for sure make more money on every sold Iphone. The volume is alot bigger than in the N900 case. The HW on Iphone is not that good that makes even more income for Apple.
* Theyr making money on appstore.

* In the case of N900 most of development is OpenSource. And yes I no another reason is Ovistore still sucks to and I dont know i nokia make money on it?

Another reason could be: Maybe Nokia has already decided to only make tabletbased Meego products in the future and dropped the plans for more Meego based "smartcomputers with integrated phone" and instead continue on Symbian on that segment (which ofcourse is bad but still bussiness is bussines :-( For this reason they want to use as much code as possible for future devices. I they alkreadyu has decided to drop ARM on more advanced computerproducts there is no reason for them to make "useless code" based on old arm arch.

Another reason to drop geekphones is the operators dont like phones that is "hackerfriendly" like N900 soo that could be one of the reason we will never see a fully supported Open Source based smartphone like N900 in the future :-( (I really hope I am wrong!!!

And dont forget the fact, that many people here complains like childs and dont have a clue how bussines works. Infact all this complains also may scare away Nokia employers working with the OSS community and thats more sad than if wee will se bloated crap flash 10.1 or similar on N900.

Ofcourse we should complain but still we should do it in a good way :-)

One thing for sure Nokia should support on N900 is a good OviMaps! (I dont know why this is a problem isnt OviMaps written in QT? would be that hard to backport from symbian phones :-S

gerbick
2010-05-25, 19:40
I think the bitterness of some of the posters in this thread should be equally listened to as much as the happy owners.

The fact that this sounds like the prior iterations which lead to spotty community support - Mer? Despite knowing why, it never happened - or just plain lack of developments and for such an "open source" project, there's enough closed bits that will be either never be opened (BME) or will remain closed enough to cause problems for future support is also sounding like prior iterations.

To sit back and say "Nokia never said MeeGo will be on the N900" actually justifies this type of treatment and Nokia will do it again and again until it stops.

770, N800, N810, now N900. When will it stop with the dead ends and the excuses?

ZShakespeare
2010-05-25, 19:45
I think the bitterness of some of the posters in this thread should be equally listened to as much as the happy owners.

The fact that this sounds like the prior iterations which lead to spotty community support - Mer? Despite knowing why, it never happened - or just plain lack of developments and for such an "open source" project, there's enough closed bits that will be either never be opened (BME) or will remain closed enough to cause problems for future support is also sounding like prior iterations.

To sit back and say "Nokia never said MeeGo will be on the N900" actually justifies this type of treatment and Nokia will do it again and again until it stops.

770, N800, N810, now N900. When will it stop with the dead ends and the excuses?

When the Euro market starts replacing their old symbian phones with iPhones and Android phones.

Kajko
2010-05-25, 19:45
Sad day. I was on the #maemo freenode IRC channel earlier today and people were being banned and kicked out for speaking their mind on this topic and being upset (rightly so) at Nokia. Others were being ridiculed and laughed at by the so called "senior" members of the community.

I thought this was an open community that nurtured a debate? What a joke, next they'll start deleting threads on here.

wmarone
2010-05-25, 19:52
Sad day. I was on the #maemo freenode IRC channel earlier today and people were being banned and kicked out for speaking their mind on this topic and being upset (rightly so) at Nokia. Others were being ridiculed and laughed at by the so called "senior" members of the community.

I thought this was an open community that nurtured a debate? What a joke, next they'll start deleting threads on here.

Oh oh, you mean the wonderful commentary by N900killa who decided to roll up and just pointlessly bash Nokia and everyone in the channel who was actually trying to do something? He wasn't so much as voicing his opinion as blathering with two braincells and taking his frustrations out on random people.

You've gotta work -real- hard to get kicked from there I've found.

Yeah I can't see why such a useless tool was removed.

slender
2010-05-25, 19:57
S... speaking their mind on this topic and being upset (rightly so) at Nokia. Others were being ridiculed and laughed at by the so called "senior" members of the community.
I could look logs but let´s just ask that why they were upset? Was it that Nokia Conversations told what has been known for last 3-4 months (wiki here, threads about, nokia employees blogs)?

TheLongshot
2010-05-25, 19:58
I think the bitterness of some of the posters in this thread should be equally listened to as much as the happy owners.

The fact that this sounds like the prior iterations which lead to spotty community support - Mer? Despite knowing why, it never happened - or just plain lack of developments and for such an "open source" project, there's enough closed bits that will be either never be opened (BME) or will remain closed enough to cause problems for future support is also sounding like prior iterations.

To sit back and say "Nokia never said MeeGo will be on the N900" actually justifies this type of treatment and Nokia will do it again and again until it stops.

770, N800, N810, now N900. When will it stop with the dead ends and the excuses?

How does this differ from most phone OSs? WinMo has been doing it for years. Android has similar issues, where owners are at the mercy of the manufacturers if they are going to get updates.

Now, I bought my N900 with the full understanding that Harmanhattan/Meego might not come for it. I was fine with that, since the OS runs fine for me for the most part. As long as most major bugs are taken care of, I'm not too worried about my device. As you continue to use your N810, I expect I will continue to use my N900 for a while, particularly if capacitive screens are the future.

Having support for QT 4.6 is bigger for me, since at least we will have a common framework to develop applications between OSs and making the effort for releases more trivial for these OSs. It isn't any guarantee that applications will come, but it does make it more likely, especially from the community level.

If Meego does come, I'll be happy. If it doesn't come, it is likely I'll still be happy, since I'm mostly happy with the phone as it stands now.

gerbick
2010-05-25, 19:58
Sad day. I was on the #maemo freenode IRC channel earlier today and people were being banned and kicked out for speaking their mind on this topic and being upset (rightly so) at Nokia. Others were being ridiculed and laughed at by the so called "senior" members of the community.

I thought this was an open community that nurtured a debate? What a joke, next they'll start deleting threads on here.

Posts have already been removed supposedly already. I haven't seen it, but it's been oft stated by some of the more... "angry" type of poster here.

As far as speech goes, it's always been rather free around here. Just don't lash out in some curse-laden tirade that looks more like a tantrum than opinion and all should be fine.

Regardless. I think this settles that I'll continue to enjoy the new revival on my N810, thank my stars I avoided the N900 - lack of want to switch to T-Mobile was the biggest problem for me honestly - and see what happens around this.

I hope MeeGo will not become the next Mer, Mer^2 or NITDroid (read: never completed) and that something comes out of this more than nothing.

Anger... oh, I get it. Part of me wants to just say "What did you expect from Nokia?" - they never answered a damn thing directly about it, thus leading me to think everybody was out to get a step 4 out of 5 product that won't get support past the current iteration of software.

I bet PR1.3 will be the last major revision, then that's it.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 20:03
I hope MeeGo will not become the next Mer, Mer^2 or NITDroid (read: never completed) and that something comes out of this more than nothing.



isn't NITDroid still a WIP

gerbick
2010-05-25, 20:07
isn't NITDroid still a WIP

So is Mer^2, so is the MeeGo implementation for N900. Simply put, the community in all of its goodness does a lot of big, huge projects that are years later a work in progress.

Mer? Dead.

Mer^2? Dead.

MeeGo for N900? Might as well be dead.

NITDroid? No movement in a while that warrants full replacement of the current OS.

OS2007HE? It was slow.

OS2008HE? It was even slower.

Besides applications, the OS support from the community - Community SSU excepted - just plain sucks for the last 3+ years.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 20:13
NITDroid? No movement in a while that warrants full replacement of the current OS.


I think saying that is completely unfair to dj_steve. He's made a **** load of progress. From the videos I saw, it looked as fast as Maemo 5 on the n900. Also, he is doing it alone so I wouldn't expect development to be super fast.

Look at the videos here (http://www.youtube.com/user/djsteve1030?feature=mhw5). I think progress is being made

jsa
2010-05-25, 20:13
Sad day. I was on the #maemo freenode IRC channel earlier today and people were being banned and kicked out for speaking their mind on this topic and being upset (rightly so) at Nokia. Others were being ridiculed and laughed at by the so called "senior" members of the community.

I thought this was an open community that nurtured a debate? What a joke, next they'll start deleting threads on here.

NOKIA BETRAYED US!!! TRAITORS!
No freaking meego on the n900 - FAIL
YES
i dongt
i dont want an os put together by a bunch of pimple faced hackers. i want official release !!!!
nokia give me my money back
huge huge huge fail nokia
pexi: toy your nokia never
I'm freaking disappointed nokia - never again am I buying nokia
stskeeps: open your fanboy blinders suckers
nokia needs fools that continue buying into their junk - fools
all I'm saying is all N900 buyers got their money stolen by nokia

That was the only person banned today, does that look like debate worth nurturing to you? Seriously?

wmarone
2010-05-25, 20:15
MeeGo for N900? Might as well be dead.
Well we can make absolutely sure of that. We're already on track, that's for sure. A community effort like none other.

Besides applications, the OS support from the community - Community SSU excepted - just plain sucks for the last 3+ years.

Well if apathy and a subtle antagonism towards those who are trying to put forth effort is what can be expected of the community, I can see why so few people bother to try and help. I wouldn't be shocked if the total number of people who have actually tried to contribute are a tiny, tiny minority of the people who frequent these forums and rarely those who yell at Nokia the loudest.

Indeed, MeeGo for the N900 probably is already dead and it is this community and cynically pessimistic commentary from all sides that will kill it.

andrewfblack
2010-05-25, 20:15
Don't know if you guys know it or not but there is a group of paid professonal programmers working on Meego on N900. It is being done my people just like the people who are making Meego for the next device. Just because there are is no Offical Shinny Nokia Stamped update doesn't mean that there is not a professonal update being paid for by Nokia.

gerbick
2010-05-25, 20:18
How does this differ from most phone OSs? WinMo has been doing it for years. Android has similar issues, where owners are at the mercy of the manufacturers if they are going to get updates.

Most people would expect a company to have learned from prior mistakes. It's 2010, not 2000.

Now, I bought my N900 with the full understanding that Harmanhattan/Meego might not come for it. I was fine with that, since the OS runs fine for me for the most part. As long as most major bugs are taken care of, I'm not too worried about my device. As you continue to use your N810, I expect I will continue to use my N900 for a while, particularly if capacitive screens are the future.

I don't think you quite get what I mean. I'm merely asking when will it stop? 770, N800, N810, N900. So many bugs were left in Diablo (Maemo 4.1) that still persist and they're around closed bits in an "open source" OS. Irony withstanding; when will it stop?

Most people knew that Harmattan was not going to make it to the Fremantle device; however read the threads around here and you'd see that hope was still alive.

Hope is now fully dead. Stabbed in the heart by a protracted, 6 month delayed answer from Nokia that finally, and clearly stated what most people had assumed to be true already - the N900 was a dead end. The early adopters largely knew; the new users, or the people in Hong Kong did not - it just got launched there.

If Meego does come, I'll be happy. If it doesn't come, it is likely I'll still be happy, since I'm mostly happy with the phone as it stands now.

I'd honestly have to say that you have the healthiest outlook of anybody about this situation. I don't disagree with your stance; I just wonder how many times will people continue to support Maemo/MeeGo when each device is a dot-revision away from obsolescence based on whatever whim Nokia comes across.

The decision for resistive screen was basically a bad decision - capacitive is their future now. Multi-touch (which we all knew was never coming to the N900) will be the new drive forward.

I get the cost of advancement; I don't have to actually like it nor fully go along with it. Nor do other upset Nokia NXXX owners.

gerbick
2010-05-25, 20:20
I think saying that is completely unfair to dj_steve. He's made a **** load of progress. From the videos I saw, it looked as fast as Maemo 5 on the n900. Also, he is doing it alone so I wouldn't expect development to be super fast.

Look at the videos here (http://www.youtube.com/user/djsteve1030?feature=mhw5). I think progress is being made

Progress, indeed. I think you're overlooking what I actually said.

There is not enough advancement that it will not replace the main OS at the moment. Progress? Hell yes. Enough to convince me to drop Maemo? Not yet.

Please don't mince my words yet again.

quipper8
2010-05-25, 20:21
Don't know if you guys know it or not but there is a group of paid professonal programmers working on Meego on N900. It is being done my people just like the people who are making Meego for the next device. Just because there are is no Offical Shinny Nokia Stamped update doesn't mean that there is not a professonal update being paid for by Nokia.
the way i understand it , yes there is a team working on hardware adaptation of Meego, but there is only a community effort for the Nokia Meego instance known as harmattan.

technically, meego runs on the n900 right now...

gerbick
2010-05-25, 20:27
Well we can make absolutely sure of that. We're already on track, that's for sure. A community effort like none other.

The problem is that the other community efforts yielded no fruit. I'm not jaded because I want to be. I've become jaded because of prior experience.

Can't blame me for not having high hopes at this moment.

Well if apathy and a subtle antagonism towards those who are trying to put forth effort is what can be expected of the community, I can see why so few people bother to try and help. I wouldn't be shocked if the total number of people who have actually tried to contribute are a tiny, tiny minority of the people who frequent these forums and rarely those who yell at Nokia the loudest.

I'm not yelling at Nokia nor yelling at the kind folks that will grant my device years after Nokia has forgotten me.

I just have very little faith that things will happen in a grand manner; it will be like the Community SSU which is a gradual fix to quite a few things that were bothersome some 2 years after the fact. It's not a full OS upgrade or replacement; but you know, I do like what's being done.

But it required faith for me to stick around and hope that it would have happened. That faith is now lacking in anything else that comes out. Who knows... I might be pleasantly surprised.

Or I might be let down again.

Indeed, MeeGo for the N900 probably is already dead and it is this community and cynically pessimistic commentary from all sides that will kill it.

It'll be dead because nothing before pertaining the entire OS from the community just has never come to fruition. Developers are used to pessimism, cynicism and apathy. I know, I am a dev (not of the quality of some of the devs here) and some people are able to create magic. But the closed bits are indeed in the way.

And the commentary is of no consequence. They're getting paid to do something. It happens, I'll eat my words gladly. But past endeavors haven't amounted to much more than talk.

TheLongshot
2010-05-25, 20:32
Most people would expect a company to have learned from prior mistakes. It's 2010, not 2000.

Point being, such "mistakes" continue to this day. Nokia isn't alone in this. (See the HD2)

Most people knew that Harmattan was not going to make it to the Fremantle device; however read the threads around here and you'd see that hope was still alive.

Hope is now fully dead. Stabbed in the heart by a protracted, 6 month delayed answer from Nokia that finally, and clearly stated what most people had assumed to be true already - the N900 was a dead end. The early adopters largely knew; the new users, or the people in Hong Kong did not - it just got launched there.

I'll disagree with you that hope is dead for the N900 simply because there won't be an official MeeGo build for the N900. The hope shifts now to applications, which is the lifeblood for any platform, and that gets a boost with pr1.2 with QT 4.6 and the opening of Ovi Store. With a compatible framework and a commercial store, that opens things up for more applications, potentially. If we didn't have that, I'd have to agree with you.

I'd honestly have to say that you have the healthiest outlook of anybody about this situation. I don't disagree with your stance; I just wonder how many times will people continue to support Maemo/MeeGo when each device is a dot-revision away from obsolescence based on whatever whim Nokia comes across.

Considering it seems the average phone user changes devices at least every couple of years, if not more often, I think that's less of an issue than those used to the tablet market.

The decision for resistive screen was basically a bad decision - capacitive is their future now. Multi-touch (which we all knew was never coming to the N900) will be the new drive forward.

I don't think it was a bad decision at all. Until they allow me to use a stylus on a capacitive screen, I'll probably never feel comfortable with it. I also prefer a h/w keyboard as well over touch screen.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 20:38
Progress, indeed. I think you're overlooking what I actually said.

There is not enough advancement that it will not replace the main OS at the moment. Progress? Hell yes. Enough to convince me to drop Maemo? Not yet.

Please don't mince my words yet again.

I hate when people bring this up but you don't own an n900. If you don't an n900, wouldn't that make convincing you to drop maemo even harder.

My stupidty aside...

MeeGo and NITDroid are at the same stage right now: WIP

There's not enough advancement in MeeGo to convince you to drop Maemo either

geohsia
2010-05-25, 20:40
why are people saying that Google and Apple offer updates to existing phones but nokia dont.
they are just updating a existing OS same as nokia do with PR 1.1 and PR 1.2.
no mobile device as ever had an official update to a completely different Operating System, they just fix bugs and add new features to the one existing on the devices, NOKIA have been doing this for years but it seems to made into a big deal if your google or apple

When iPhone 3.0 OS came out it was supported across ALL iphones, including the original, more than 2 years after the original.

For Android, its been taking a long time on some devices but many are moving to 2.xObviously there are hardware issues. Older hardware can not support features in newer hardware. Fair, but the OS still worked.

Do N900 users have an entitlement attitude? You may think so but we bought into a Maemo world where we were promised many thing that have yet to be delivered. Flash 10.1 being one example.

While I applaud the 1.2 release the fact of the matter is that the N900 is still very much behind in terms of stability and maturity of the OS. We want it to be matured and if that means Meego that means Meego.

Now, you say that Meego is a New OS but you and I know its not. Harmattan is not a complete overhaul of the OS. Harmattan is closer to being binary compatible to Maemo than MeeGo.next (Maemo / Moblin).

If you look at bug database it is clear that many bugs were deferred to Harmattan which is Maemo + bug fixes. If I have to pay $20 or $30 for a stable and mature version of the OS I'm happy to do so but right now from what I see 1.2 is a step in the right direction but it is certainly no Android or iPhone OS when it comes to maturity.

So Maemo users feel left out to dry because we have heard lots of great words from Nokia about how wonderful and important Maemo is and months after people bought in they dumped it and have moved on to something else.

If they say they will continue to iterate Maemo to 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 and so on to the point where pound for pound it is as functional as Meego equivalents then no one would care. Give us OVI maps, give us Flash. Keep iterating the phone so that communication functionality works well. Video Skype is a great first step but its still version 1.0 functionality.

If they do this no one would care about MeeGo (Harmattan) but I'm not holding my breath. By their actions they are fast tracking the EOL of the N900 and moving on to MeeGO and we're just left with broken promises which is why so many people are up in arms.

gerbick
2010-05-25, 20:49
Point being, such "mistakes" continue to this day. Nokia isn't alone in this. (See the HD2)

Oh, trust. The lack of proper updates is what got me to abandon WinMo when HP released the iPaq 2210, then said it would support the upcoming Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition update, then they retracted it right after my company purchased 500 of them.

I've not been a WinMo user since. Guess what's about to happen to Maemo?

I'm not blind that it happens. But it doesn't mean that I have to support it.

I'll disagree with you that hope is dead for the N900 simply because there won't be an official MeeGo build for the N900. The hope shifts now to applications, which is the lifeblood for any platform, and that gets a boost with pr1.2 with QT 4.6 and the opening of Ovi Store. With a compatible framework and a commercial store, that opens things up for more applications, potentially. If we didn't have that, I'd have to agree with you.

To be honest... I truly hope I am 100% wrong. Would love to see MeeGo in a truly usable form come out of this, full utilization of Qt 4.6 and a PR1.3 that fixes the persisting bugs in PR1.2.

Considering it seems the average phone user changes devices at least every couple of years, if not more often, I think that's less of an issue than those used to the tablet market.

I tend to not change per 18-20 or so months. Give or take a few changes due to faulty phones, but that's about my average in the last 11 years.

I don't think it was a bad decision at all. Until they allow me to use a stylus on a capacitive screen, I'll probably never feel comfortable with it. I also prefer a h/w keyboard as well over touch screen.

It was a decision that stopped the current gen from becoming the next gen. "Bad" decision, or just limited planning. That's my take.

Thanks for being civil. It's much appreciated.

gerbick
2010-05-25, 20:56
I hate when people bring this up but you don't own an n900. If you don't an n900, wouldn't that make convincing you to drop maemo even harder.

I am a two-time prior Maemo customer, and I was a potential customer... until now.

Feel free to bring up I don't own a N900. Just understand that I would have been one of the owners that could have been distraught about it if I felt like I was "betrayed" by Nokia and left with little to know options in terms of future iterations.

Ownership in this case, I've invested enough into this Maemo forum and I've done what has become a mantra for owners here "Do your research first" - where's the fault in that? I'm doing research.

Are you against me doing that?

And are you stating that I don't know enough about Maemo to have any say?

MeeGo and NITDroid are at the same stage right now: WIP

Yes, they are. But the likelihood of them getting out of that status is rather low. Case in point... Mer, Mer^2.

We'll see. But as it stands, this whole "you don't own a N900" cannot be held against me when I'm doing research to avoid becoming one of the very angry "NOKIA HAS *#$@(&*@&#($&*@ ME" rhetoric.

geohsia
2010-05-25, 21:23
the way i understand it , yes there is a team working on hardware adaptation of Meego, but there is only a community effort for the Nokia Meego instance known as harmattan.

technically, meego runs on the n900 right now...

What MeeGo core? It's like buying an engine off of CraigsList and saying that you have a brand new car. Technically it might run, but without a body, drive train, wheels and everything else you need to get from point a to b you ain't going nowhere.

Technically that engine could drive you from LA to SF but practically you're no where closer than from where you began.

geohsia
2010-05-25, 21:33
Don't know if you guys know it or not but there is a group of paid professonal programmers working on Meego on N900. It is being done my people just like the people who are making Meego for the next device. Just because there are is no Offical Shinny Nokia Stamped update doesn't mean that there is not a professonal update being paid for by Nokia.

From what I can gather what is being discussed those professional developers are developing MeeGo and right now they can only run on the N900. They're not developing MeeGo so that N900 users have a MeeGo experience.

If they were intending on unleashing the MeeGo experience on the N900 they would have said so. They haven't.

When the MeeGo device is available I'll bet you those professional developers will no longer be on the N900. They happened to develop ON the N900 now. They're NOT developing MeeGo FOR the N900. That's a big difference.

TheLongshot
2010-05-25, 21:34
Oh, trust. The lack of proper updates is what got me to abandon WinMo when HP released the iPaq 2210, then said it would support the upcoming Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition update, then they retracted it right after my company purchased 500 of them.

I've not been a WinMo user since. Guess what's about to happen to Maemo?

Again, tell me what phone platform doesn't have this problem? Probably just the iPhone, and that's likely because all iterations are pretty similar hardware-wise. Even so, I hear that iPhone programmers code to the LCD anyways.

To be honest... I truly hope I am 100% wrong. Would love to see MeeGo in a truly usable form come out of this, full utilization of Qt 4.6 and a PR1.3 that fixes the persisting bugs in PR1.2.

As long as applications continue to come out, I don't much care if MeeGo comes out for the N900. As for fix persisting bugs, as a software developer by trade, I know you never get all of them. ;)

I tend to not change per 18-20 or so months. Give or take a few changes due to faulty phones, but that's about my average in the last 11 years.

I haven't owned that many phones, and until this one I pretty much was using them until they died. Course, I'm probably unusual in this.

It was a decision that stopped the current gen from becoming the next gen. "Bad" decision, or just limited planning. That's my take.

I don't look at it like that. I like that the hardware seems to be progressing, rather than the rather homogeneous hardware that is the iPhone. Then again, as I said, a capacitive screen with no keyboard would have been a non-starter to me.

Maybe the real answer is to have OSs which are optimized for whatever phone they are running, but a common framework which everyone can develop against. Certainly that's Android's approach. While it isn't the plan with Maemo, it is certainly the compromise to keep the N900 relevant until it does reach EOL.

Thanks for being civil. It's much appreciated.

I understand where you are coming from. At the same time, I knew what I was getting into when I bought this phone. Most here knew that Harmattan was coming down the pipeline when this phone was released and that the possibility was always going to be there that the N900 wasn't going to get it.

That being said, we are still a long way from Harmattan/MeeGo being in a real device. While we expect an announcement to happen sometime this year, it hasn't happened yet. We have few clues about what the UI is going to look like, since the OS isn't completed yet.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 21:38
Yes, they are. But the likelihood of them getting out of that status is rather low. Case in point... Mer, Mer^2.

We'll see. But as it stands, this whole "you don't own a N900" cannot be held against me when I'm doing research to avoid becoming one of the very angry "NOKIA HAS *#$@(&*@&#($&*@ ME" rhetoric.

But Mer and Mer^2 and completely different animals from NITDroid. The motivations for the projects are different.

The owning thing was a joke

gerbick
2010-05-25, 21:47
Again, tell me what phone platform doesn't have this problem? Probably just the iPhone, and that's likely because all iterations are pretty similar hardware-wise. Even so, I hear that iPhone programmers code to the LCD anyways.

The original iPhone got 3 iterations of the OS. Apple has gone on record to state that all of their phone will get 3 major revisions of the OS.

Android, some phones have received updates from 1.0 to the upcoming 2.2. Not all, but most. That is a minefield in itself though navigating which ones will receive support. Thus, research...

As long as applications continue to come out, I don't much care if MeeGo comes out for the N900. As for fix persisting bugs, as a software developer by trade, I know you never get all of them.

Historically, once a new OS is announced by Nokia, the apps start trickling out and slow down to a crawl.

I don't look at it like that. I like that the hardware seems to be progressing, rather than the rather homogeneous hardware that is the iPhone. Then again, as I said, a capacitive screen with no keyboard would have been a non-starter to me.

To me, the "advancement" of the iPhone platform is finally getting their first upgrade in years with the iPhone 4G. The iPhone, iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS were more "evolutionary" than true updates imho.

I understand where you are coming from. At the same time, I knew what I was getting into when I bought this phone. Most here knew that Harmattan was coming down the pipeline when this phone was released and that the possibility was always going to be there that the N900 wasn't going to get it.

Like I said... not many people know that in the recently released areas. And here, 6 months after the release of the N900; you have a seriously dead end phone. That's a new record in any potential phone I was interested in.

That being said, we are still a long way from Harmattan/MeeGo being in a real device. While we expect an announcement to happen sometime this year, it hasn't happened yet. We have few clues about what the UI is going to look like, since the OS isn't completed yet.

I'm patient enough to wait; I just have a right to have very little expectation.

gerbick
2010-05-25, 21:50
But Mer and Mer^2 and completely different animals from NITDroid. The motivations for the projects are different.

Agree fully. But as it stands - and I hate to overly simplify things - is that I have only one question in regards to all of the above: "Are any of them finished yet?" and the answer is invariably "No."

But that's to be understood with works in progress. I just can't say that they will ever be finished - such as was the case with Mer and Mer^2.

The owning thing was a joke

Bah, no worries. I figured as much. I'm getting used to it by now.

nosa101
2010-05-25, 21:53
Agree fully. But as it stands - and I hate to overly simplify things - is that I have only one question in regards to all of the above: "Are any of them finished yet?" and the answer is invariably "No."

But that's to be understood with works in progress. I just can't say that they will ever be finished - such as was the case with Mer and Mer^2.


But you could say the same about MeeGo. Nokia could scrap it tomorrow and make Symbian the one true OS

Sarcastic_Twit
2010-05-25, 22:15
But you could say the same about MeeGo. Nokia could scrap it tomorrow and make Symbian the one true OS

That's the 2012 business plan. But we're set for Armageddon then so it's cool.

A QT 4.6 Meego 1.0 app that doesn't run well, or run at all on Maemo 5 1.3 will prove which side is right.

msa
2010-05-25, 22:22
well, saying "no commercial meego" for the n900 sounds like we may get some kind of "meego lite" or "basic" that will run on the n900, but only comes with the very basic functions needed to operate a n900 as a phone. for everything else, we have to look after ourselves.

well, sounds like maemo to me.

if you want everything served on a silver tablet, you'd buy apple anyway.

realceday
2010-05-25, 22:25
new meego 1.0 release very soon. look that.

http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900

MeeGo 1.0 for Nokia N900, released at DD/MM/YYYY

gerbick
2010-05-25, 22:32
new meego 1.0 release very soon. look that.

http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900

MeeGo 1.0 for Nokia N900, released at DD/MM/YYYY

That's for devs, will not have the MeeGo UX.

geohsia
2010-05-25, 22:46
But you could say the same about MeeGo. Nokia could scrap it tomorrow and make Symbian the one true OS

That's the problem. Too many OS'es to manage. Multiple Linux and Symbian variants and Harmattan was dead before it was even released.

Nokia's stated goal has always been to move toward the mix of Maemo / Moblin. Where Fremantle.next was Harmattan, there will be no Harmattan.next. Unclear if work on Harmattan will work toward to MeeGo proper, which means less maturity as a platform.

So if we're counting which has the least shelf-life, what does Harmattan have, -4 months?

Brock
2010-05-25, 22:50
i think the reason why most of us are so disapointed about this news is that nokia told us, that the nokia n900 will be the first device of many following in the future with the (new) os maemo 5 which will be THE os for the next high end devices... that was an official statement before the n900 was released... and that is a lie! meego will be the new os and without the support of meego for n900 it is still a lie...

and THAT is the problem!

now, after this news is official, what makes meego different to maemo? in a year, nokia could say that meego wont be supported anymore, because symbian will be the only platform supported by their fture touch phones? no one knows... and that makes me scared because i loved nokia phones since they exists...

If you guys think that nokia will still support maemo, that they will bring out more updates, believe me, it wont be more, it will be less... ask the guys in the other device-threads... its some kind of poor for nokia imho...

nokia always says, that they listen to the community... but i donk think so... and maemo.org will be... in the near future... never be the same... like every time when nokia stopped supporting a nxxx devices (and 770) in the past...

for me, this will be a big lesson. never buy a nokia nxxx... it wont be supported long... maybe, my next device will be something that talks moore@home... if feel this kind of desire... or again a nokia? i dont know... :(

just my 2 cents

maxximuscool
2010-05-25, 23:17
Apple OSX Mobile released on June 29 2007, still on going support (updatable)
Nokia Maemo 5 released on November 2009, No longer support after PR1.2 (The End, GG)

lol Horay!!

Blinde
2010-05-25, 23:26
Who said that there is no support for N900 after PR 1.2?
Besides, so what. I was gonna buy the meego device anyway later. No point for keeping the same phone for over a year since technology advances so fast these days :D

sjgadsby
2010-05-25, 23:28
i think the reason why most of us are so disapointed about this news is that nokia told us, that the nokia n900 will be the first device of many following in the future with the (new) os maemo 5 which will be THE os for the next high end devices... that was an official statement before the n900 was released...

No, Nokia clearly, publicly laid out plans that included Maemo 6 (Harmattan) following right behind Maemo 5 (Fremantle) when details of Maemo 5 were first introduced. Maemo was to be the high end platform, yes, but Nokia never said they were halting development at version 5 of the OS. You misunderstood.

EDIT: In fact, more than a year ago, well before the release of the N900 and Maemo 5, qgil was publicly searching for an "i" wind name for the Maemo release after Harmattan (http://qgil.jaiku.com/presence/52078129).

GeraldKo
2010-05-25, 23:51
sjgadsby is correct. N900 was associated with Maemo 5 and there were expressly no guarantees that it would support the successor to Maemo 5. Maemo 5 was always the penultimate step in getting to the real crowd-worthy Maemo. Yes, things changed in that now Nokia is heading onto the MeeGo track. But all along, the N900 was still part of a sort of long-term beta program that began with the 770. The next step in the Maemo evolution was the one that was to have real longevity. (Which is one reason why I stayed with the N8x0 series.)

SirMuttley
2010-05-26, 00:45
Wow, hardly surprising news.

I for one am glad.

It means nokia can concentrate on giving the best support for future hardware, not wasting time supporting legacy hardware that already has it's own OS to start with.

Everyone wants something for free these days.

SirMuttley
2010-05-26, 00:51
i think the reason why most of us are so disapointed about this news is that nokia told us, that the nokia n900 will be the first device of many following in the future with the (new) os maemo 5 which will be THE os for the next high end devices... that was an official statement before the n900 was released... and that is a lie! meego will be the new os and without the support of meego for n900 it is still a lie...

Nokia never said that the N900 would get Maemo 6, so what difference does it make if it doesn't get Meego?

The only OS Nokia promised for the N900 was Maemo 5.

I still don't get why people are getting so upset about this.

Grok
2010-05-26, 01:04
Once upon a time, I purchased a computer with Windows 98se installed and it came with a coupon for free copy of Windows ME (when released).....:eek:......I didn`t use the coupon.

Time passed, and I purchased a shiny new note book with a copy of Windows XP installed it too came with a coupon, this time for Windows Vista! Nope didn`t get that either.:cool:

I`m not putting MeeGo in the same class as those other clunkers, but I am skeptical of the unreleased OS. I always like to give new OS`s a chance to be digested by the public at large before I jump on them. If by chance, it is the best thing since sliced bread, then I`ll re-visit MeeGo. In the meantime I will continue to enjoy maemo`s strengths.;)

TheLongshot
2010-05-26, 01:40
Like I said... not many people know that in the recently released areas. And here, 6 months after the release of the N900; you have a seriously dead end phone. That's a new record in any potential phone I was interested in.

Given your logic, the N900 was dead in the water before it was released, considering that work on Harmatten was known at that time. I wouldn't be shocked if that was a big reason why you decided to pass on the N900.

That being said, a Meego device isn't all that close to being released. In the meantime, apps need to be written for the device. With Maemo having the same framework and strongly related to the core of Maemo, it makes a good starting platform for these applications.

Until a comporable Meego product is announced, the N900 isn't "dead". Even when that does happen doesn't mean that the device is useless.

In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy my device. When a new device comes out, I may consider it. But it won't be because the N900 is "dead".

ed00
2010-05-26, 01:42
AAVA will be next device that will fully support MeeGo http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Aava-Mobile-Aava/

Blinde
2010-05-26, 01:51
When this Aava is expected to be released? Looks much better than Nokia's designs.

nosa101
2010-05-26, 01:59
When this Aava is expected to be released? Looks much better than Nokia's designs.
Nevuary 1st?

Looks like vapourware to me

geohsia
2010-05-26, 02:05
Nokia never said that the N900 would get Maemo 6, so what difference does it make if it doesn't get Meego?

The only OS Nokia promised for the N900 was Maemo 5.

I still don't get why people are getting so upset about this.

True, Harmattan was never promised. What was disconcerting was that a large number of legitimate bugs / issues that were prevalent in Maemo 5 were pushed to Harmattan. You can track the bug submissions. Disappointing. Usually people do that at the end of a product cycle of at least a year or two. This was done after months.

Not a good track record for support.

While at the same time MeeGo gets announced that will superceed Maemo 6 / Harmattan / (soon to be called MeeGo 1.0).

So while the world only had Maemo 5 and 6 there was some potential that the support life of Maemo 5 would extend more than just a few months. With the advent of MeeGo (Maemo + Moblin) and them just renaming Maemo 6 to MeeGo 1.0 the likelihood of support for Maemo 5 for the next year is just wishful thinking at this point.

I don't know if this was speculation but we were told that a lot of people on the Maemo team have moved to MeeGo. Not a surprise really. Great, for MeeGo. Sucks to be us.

I hate harping on this but Adobe 10.1 which was promised so long ago and was a huge selling point is still not available and there is no indication that Nokia will deliver it. I think that is a good indication of the level of commitment they have for Maemo 5. We knew that Maemo 5 was rough around the edges but the goal was to iterate it and make it better. Now they're just putting it on life support.

If Nokia said, "Don't worry we will continue to support Maemo 5 with updates and feature enhancements for the next year or two" I think many would not be so concerned about having Harmattan (MeeGo 1.0). But that's not going to happen. Nokia is trying to get out Symbian ^3 and ^4 AND also going to support Maemo 5 and 6 (MeeGo 1.0) and MeeGo (Maemo + Moblin)? Nokia is a big company but not that big and not in todays competitive world.

Short of Nokia re-dedicating publicly to the Maemo product the only option left for us to make sure that we have support that lasts more than a few months and so Maemo 6 / MeeGo 1.0 is our shot at lasting support.

If the delays in 1.2 are any indication, Nokia has deprecated the N900 and Maemo 5 and put it on the back burner of support. I can go on all day about how hard it is to make these releases but I would bet you good money if people hadn't left for MeeGo the delay would surely not have been a long.

I'm not saying that focusing on MeeGo is a bad decision. I just want to make sure that we get the right level of attention and right now jumping on the MeeGo bandwagon is the only way we'll get a little love from Nokia. I'd love to be proven otherwise.

Sarcastic_Twit
2010-05-26, 03:15
True, Harmattan was never promised. What was disconcerting was that a large number of legitimate bugs / issues that were prevalent in Maemo 5 were pushed to Harmattan. You can track the bug submissions. Disappointing. Usually people do that at the end of a product cycle of at least a year or two. This was done after months.

Not a good track record for support.

While at the same time MeeGo gets announced that will superceed Maemo 6 / Harmattan / (soon to be called MeeGo 1.0).

So while the world only had Maemo 5 and 6 there was some potential that the support life of Maemo 5 would extend more than just a few months. With the advent of MeeGo (Maemo + Moblin) and them just renaming Maemo 6 to MeeGo 1.0 the likelihood of support for Maemo 5 for the next year is just wishful thinking at this point.

I don't know if this was speculation but we were told that a lot of people on the Maemo team have moved to MeeGo. Not a surprise really. Great, for MeeGo. Sucks to be us.

I hate harping on this but Adobe 10.1 which was promised so long ago and was a huge selling point is still not available and there is no indication that Nokia will deliver it. I think that is a good indication of the level of commitment they have for Maemo 5. We knew that Maemo 5 was rough around the edges but the goal was to iterate it and make it better. Now they're just putting it on life support.

If Nokia said, "Don't worry we will continue to support Maemo 5 with updates and feature enhancements for the next year or two" I think many would not be so concerned about having Harmattan (MeeGo 1.0). But that's not going to happen. Nokia is trying to get out Symbian ^3 and ^4 AND also going to support Maemo 5 and 6 (MeeGo 1.0) and MeeGo (Maemo + Moblin)? Nokia is a big company but not that big and not in todays competitive world.

Short of Nokia re-dedicating publicly to the Maemo product the only option left for us to make sure that we have support that lasts more than a few months and so Maemo 6 / MeeGo 1.0 is our shot at lasting support.

If the delays in 1.2 are any indication, Nokia has deprecated the N900 and Maemo 5 and put it on the back burner of support. I can go on all day about how hard it is to make these releases but I would bet you good money if people hadn't left for MeeGo the delay would surely not have been a long.

I'm not saying that focusing on MeeGo is a bad decision. I just want to make sure that we get the right level of attention and right now jumping on the MeeGo bandwagon is the only way we'll get a little love from Nokia. I'd love to be proven otherwise.

Flash 10.1 probably won't be "... about ensuring that you have the best possible experience designed for the features on your Nokia N900 device". Steve Jobs would be proud.

qgil
2010-05-26, 03:16
Please ask questions to be posted or updated at http://wiki.maemo.org/What_can_we_realistically_expect and I will do my best answering them. Hopefully this will save some of the confusion and repeated arguments seen in this thread.

nosa101
2010-05-26, 03:29
So nobody wants to ask questions?

nosa101
2010-05-26, 03:32
What will be the difference between official MeeGo and community MeeGo?

gerbick
2010-05-26, 03:33
Will Flash 10.1 land on Maemo 5?

nosa101
2010-05-26, 03:40
Will MeeGo on the n900 have flash 10.1?

Texrat
2010-05-26, 03:41
Is it possible that an official, unique name can be given to a hybrid Maemo/MeeGo OS to distinguish it from pure instances of either?

resplendent2209
2010-05-26, 03:48
Yeah give it a name :D It will avoid confusions in the near future.

How about MeeMo? :D

geohsia
2010-05-26, 04:12
Please ask questions to be posted or updated at http://wiki.maemo.org/What_can_we_realistically_expect and I will do my best answering them. Hopefully this will save some of the confusion and repeated arguments seen in this thread.

Can we first address nomenclature and at least try to be more clear what we are running when we speak of MeeGO?

Are we referring to the platform MeeGo(non-release specific), including core, hw adaption, UX and 3rd party software.

Or are we referring to Harmattan / MeeGo 1.0 that's just MeeGo compatible only

Or are we referring to the Post Harmattan release of Maemo 6 + Moblin 2.x instance which is the first real bonafide version of MeeGo.

Can we also say that when we refer to anything that runs any version of MeeGo we mean the full stack, otherwise we specify that it runs the MeeGo 1.0 Core or the MeeGo 2.x UX and etc.

As for the questions:

Is there a codename for the Maemo 6 + Moblin 2.x version of MeeGo?

What is the expected support duration for Maemo 5. 1 more month? 6 more months, 2 more years?

How many more dot releases can we expect for Maemo, and in what interval?

Can we expect bugs being pushed out to Harmattan to be brought back into Fremantle?

Why are many of the bugs in Maemo 5 deferred to be fixed in Harmattan and not addressed in Fremantle?

Will OVI Maps 3.x be available for Maemo 5 natively or via some version of QT that is supported in Fremantle

And of course the favorite, when will Nokia make good on its promise to release Flash 10.1 HW accelerated on Maemo 5

TheLongshot
2010-05-26, 04:15
If the delays in 1.2 are any indication, Nokia has deprecated the N900 and Maemo 5 and put it on the back burner of support. I can go on all day about how hard it is to make these releases but I would bet you good money if people hadn't left for MeeGo the delay would surely not have been a long.

I scratch my head about this one, because the wait really wasn't that long.

Time between initial release and 1.1 - 2 months
Time between 1.1 and 1.1.1 - 1 month
Time between 1.1.1 and 1.2 - 3 months

The "delays" in 1.2 (if there were really delays or if it took that long to write or test everything. People talk like there was a release date to hit that everyone knew about) doesn't say anything either way about Nokia's support of Maemo.

qgil
2010-05-26, 04:26
What will be the difference between official MeeGo and community MeeGo?

"official MeeGo" = the release of an open source platform by the MeeGo project at meego.com. A community effort, including (soon) the tools to make all kinds of customizations.

If you mean "What will be the difference between the MeeGo-Harmattan release from Nokia and the MeeGo-Harmattanm release from the community", the answer is: nobody knows today. At this point nobody knows what will and will not work. Technical discussion, R&D experimentation and official MeeGo-Harmattan releases need to come first in order to tell.

The main points to watch are: hardware adaptation for the N900, impact of hardware differences between the N900 and the new target device from Nokia, software performance, possibility to redistribute Nokia binaries and possibility to redistribute 3rd party binaries (being each 3rd party a different story). Probably another piece to look at is the security framework and what can or can't be done with devices that didn't have it originally installed.

mobiledivide
2010-05-26, 04:30
Nokia never promised Flash 10.1, it was demoed on an N900 and actually if you go to that same TBS site shown on the demo on your n900 you will see that is works with flash 9.4.

qgil
2010-05-26, 04:34
There are questions about future releases of Flash. Skype and other 3rd party components with "consumer brands":

Regular Nokia employees are not supposed to speculate or even announce any news about third party software being supported or not in future releases. The initiative corresponds to the companies owning that software or, alternatively, to an official Nokia channel well in sync with those companies. Due to these reasons, please understand if Nokia guys like me will systematically bypass these questions.

qgil
2010-05-26, 04:40
Is it possible that an official, unique name can be given to a hybrid Maemo/MeeGo OS to distinguish it from pure instances of either?

Yes! Give us some time to come up with the official name. In the meantime, and for the sake of simplicity in these discussions, let's just use

"MeeGo-Harmattan" = released by Nokia, open+closed components, deb based.

"MeeGo" = released by the MeeGo project, 100% open, rpm based.

geohsia
2010-05-26, 04:47
The "delays" in 1.2 (if there were really delays or if it took that long to write or test everything. People talk like there was a release date to hit that everyone knew about) doesn't say anything either way about Nokia's support of Maemo.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Probably doesn't mean anything in and of itself, but the fact that they're tacking the No MeeGo support onto its release I think indicates the direction they're headed.

Apple has indicated that for each device they will be supported for 3 releases. The original iPhone has had OS updates up until 4.0 which is releasing soon. 2+ years of software updates. Not bad by any measure.

Will Nokia do the same?

What hope do we have that Nokia will continue to make updates to our product even a year from now. Isn't MeeGo our only option?

nosa101
2010-05-26, 04:48
what's the difference between rpm and deb?
why isn't MeeGo deb based?

qgil
2010-05-26, 04:53
Questions about further updates of Maemo 5:

The Fremantle program is working and busy preparing a next update. I'm not the person to give more details, sorry. http://conversations.nokia.com/ is the default channel for such announcements and asking there might be more effective.

If you have questions about specific bugs please ask them in those bugs. CC me if you expect my answer there.

This thread and this forum is about MeeGo & MeeGo-Harmattan, and this is the area where I hope to be more useful.

Texrat
2010-05-26, 05:02
Yes! Give us some time to come up with the official name. In the meantime, and for the sake of simplicity in these discussions, let's just use

"MeeGo-Harmattan" = released by Nokia, open+closed components, deb based.

"MeeGo" = released by the MeeGo project, 100% open, rpm based.

Quim you have made me a very happy (and relieved) man with that reply, in more ways than one.

:)

qgil
2010-05-26, 05:08
Yeah, you're absolutely right. Probably doesn't mean anything in and of itself, but the fact that they're tacking the No MeeGo support onto its release I think indicates the direction they're headed.

The idea was to address the persistent question about MeeGo and/or MeeGo-Harmattan official updates from Nokia for the N900. Another approach would have been just to wait for the MeeGo-Harmattan announcement, a logical spot to explain the N900 support plans. Any day scratched from that deadline indicates (at least to me) more transparency from Nokia to N900 potential and actual customers. This extra time is also useful for the MeeGo-Harmattan community edition effort.

qgil
2010-05-26, 05:12
what's the difference between rpm and deb?
why isn't MeeGo deb based?

deb and rpm are different package systems that offer virtually no differences to end users.

The MeeGo project has done plenty of technology decisions, one of them being choosing rpm for packaging.

No matter what, the fact is that MeeGo is rpm based and MeeGo-Harmattan will still be deb based since its development when MeeGo was announced was in a no-return point in terms of packaging.

nosa101
2010-05-26, 05:17
As Qt develops, will Qt on s^3, s^4, Maemo 5 and MeeGo/MeeGo-Harmattan be updated simultaneously?

For instance, if there is a Qt 5.0 release, will all OSes receive such upgrades?

dbl2010
2010-05-26, 05:25
Why Nokia does not support OS upgrades (not meaning OS patches) on existing devices, and keep the old "If you want new OS, buy the new Hardware" strategy. I know this mean more revenue but obviously last 2-3 years cell phone market is changed. More people will leave after they realize their 5 month old device is not new anymore. Developers are getting confused too. While they are getting used to this OS, with available libraries, suddenly new OS with different support libraries comes. Should they take the risk to keep development on old OS?

Stability and consistency is the key in software world. But Nokia like to keep releasing demo OS on new shiny devices.

PS. I ordered N900 5 days ago, still waiting the package. I am not a hater but thats how I see.

qgil
2010-05-26, 05:32
As Qt develops, will Qt on s^3, s^4, Maemo 5 and MeeGo/MeeGo-Harmattan be updated simultaneously?

For instance, if there is a Qt 5.0 release, will all OSes receive such upgrades?

Qt is developed openly both for stable and unstable releases. The Qt team usually decides what platforms *they* target to stabilize and benchmark their releases but it is not their responsibility to decide when platform X will ship a new version of Qt. Also, any OS can contribute to the development of Qt supporting their own platform.

It is Nokia's interest to have a cross-compatible Qt layer and API available both in MeeGo and Symbian, but it's the MeeGo project and the Symbian Foundation who ultimately decide what version of Qt goes on every release and also the timing of each release. And it is up to device vendors to choose the MeeGo/symbian release that suits better for their plans.

Even if the explanation sounds complex, in practice I don't see this becoming an issue. Do you have a specific concern?

geohsia
2010-05-26, 05:39
The idea was to address the persistent question about MeeGo and/or MeeGo-Harmattan official updates from Nokia for the N900. Another approach would have been just to wait for the MeeGo-Harmattan announcement, a logical spot to explain the N900 support plans.

And I'm glad you guys did answer the question. A "no" at least removes ambiguity and lingering false hope.

Any day scratched from that deadline indicates (at least to me) more transparency from Nokia to N900 potential and actual customers. This extra time is also useful for the MeeGo-Harmattan community edition effort.

Fair enough. Sounds like what you're saying it "it is what it is, so take it or leave it". Direct and honest. I like that.

So what is the point of the MeeGo-Harmattan community edition? Is it just a testbed for QT? Does no support mean no effort? That if it requires any effort to get the UX to work on the N900 that you won't do it?

nosa101
2010-05-26, 05:42
Do you have a specific concern?

I don't want a situation where consumers have to purchase new Nokia phone because a qt upgrade wasn't delivered to the n900.

qgil
2010-05-26, 05:43
Why Nokia does not support OS upgrades (not meaning OS patches) on existing devices?

To be fair about this jump from Maemo 5 to MeeGo/MeeGo-Harmattan, it is a big step that end users and developers might well consider a brand new OS. Qt is being really useful bridging the gap with its cross-compatible API.

Are there precedents in the industry of a device vendor supporting officially such radical upgrade?

The MeeGo project will have an evolutionary open source platform with regular and public release plans. There will be different vendors shipping MeeGo devices, and users will be in a better position when choosing the purchase that will give them the vendor software and support they are looking for. Nokia is a core promoter of this plan.

qgil
2010-05-26, 05:52
I don't want a situation where consumers have to purchase new Nokia phone because a qt upgrade wasn't delivered to the n900.

Qt 4.6, the current stable release, is official for Maemo 5 since yesterday and the Qt team has shown already active interest pushing Qt 4.7 (http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/05/06/new-experimental-qt-47-packages-for-the-n900/).

The first MeeGo release targets Qt 4.6. More when the MeeGo project announces the plans for the 2010 Q4 release.

The last news about MeeGo-Harmattan is that it will be based on Qt 4.6.

All in all it looks like the N900 is currently one of the best mobile devices when it comes to Qt support.

gerbick
2010-05-26, 05:56
Why won't the BME be open-source?

qgil
2010-05-26, 06:05
Why won't the BME be open-source?

I honestly believe at this point this question is more technical and more related about project resources than anything. But don't quote me on this one because I honestly don't know the details and latest status.

If you want to get a meaningful answer and even contribute to your desired scenario, I recommend you to move away from a busy end-user focused thread like this one, go to the meego-dev mailing list and formulate the question in constructive terms like:

What is the plan to handle power management in the MeeGo stack? Will there be an open component available or is this supposed to come as binary blobs for specific hardware/vendors? This question is specifically relevant to the current N900 support (apparently relying totally on Nokia's closed BME to charge the battery) and the ARM architecture in general. Thank you.

;)

gazza_d
2010-05-26, 06:10
So is Mer^2, so is the MeeGo implementation for N900. Simply put, the community in all of its goodness does a lot of big, huge projects that are years later a work in progress.

Mer? Dead.

Mer^2? Dead.

MeeGo for N900? Might as well be dead.

NITDroid? No movement in a while that warrants full replacement of the current OS.

OS2007HE? It was slow.

OS2008HE? It was even slower.

Besides applications, the OS support from the community - Community SSU excepted - just plain sucks for the last 3+ years.

2007HE and 2008He were released by Nokia for the 770, not the community.

I disagree with your last sentence. I think that a lot of work and effort has been put into the community OS efforts - Mer and Nitdroid in particular.

The issue is the number of people (or lack of)with the skill and motivation to get involved in a serious way to make these projects come to completion, and building a new OS able to compete and replace Maemo4 or Maemo5 is a massive task, and there are lots of bits still closed and kept by Nokia.

While the N900 will still work perfectly well, like my N800 and N810 do, I do think that it is now a dead end. I would not expect to see any more major updates. I also do would not expect to see a fully polished version of meego for it able to replace Maemo5.

Deja Vu.

resplendent2209
2010-05-26, 06:21
Not only Qt, It has -

-More codec support
-Highly customisable Home screens
-Very good 3D graphics
-The BEST browser among all the devices.

The things which an ideal mobile user looks in a device are -

-Facebook/Twitter, N900 has the best browser to experience the social networking making the apps for FB/Twitter redundant.
-IM client , N900 has it integrated which is an additional compliment. Skype video call/Google video call. N900 is the first device to have it natively.
-Browser, I am sure that this is where every N900 user agree that It is the best among all of the devices.
-Audio/Video, As i said above, IMO N900 is the only device to support so many codecs.
-All basic phone features. MMS comes with fMMS so no longer an issue.
-File sharing through OVI, flickr, FB etc.
-Koffice for Documents. third party like docs to go is also available. Also there is open office.
-Exchange support.

I dont know what else a person look for in a device but that is pretty much what I look for in a device and N900 has it.

N900 is the best piece of Hardware around and whatever apps are in the repositories, each and every one makes sense in pure logical terms (Not like fart and boobs apps). Did anyone ever noticed, How useful apps like Simple brightness, Led notification changer, Health check, CPU usage etc are.

Neither the Android, nor the Apple have them and that is why Nokia is the Leader in Innovation and i mean it :)


No company out there has ever made OS upgrades available to their users. Nokia atleast is trying to do that and we blame them for silly reasons. Plans for Harmattan has been clear since 1.5 years back and even if Nokia plans to drop Meego-Harmattan support for N900, they can do it because they never promised it ;)

Lets stop whining. Play with your N900 and be prepared to be amazed every day as it teaches a new thing everyday.

N900 is complete in all respect IMO.

And the credit goes to Nokia (Qgil, Harri)and those guys in the community like stskeeps (I dont know the names exactly) who are working day in and day out for making our beloved N900 hardware compatible to Meego as I think getting a UX wont be that diifficult as compared to getting the necessary hardware to copmliment that UX.

Three cheers to the Nokia and their Hardware adaptation team!

Thank you Nokia!

Quite a long post :D
Sorry