Frodo C64 Emulator is Here!

[ArnimS]

Somebody asked for a C64 emulator, so I thought I'd put one up.

http://pupnik.de/frodo_c64_emu_on_770.jpg

Download here:

Frodo C64 Emulator for Maemo (http://pupnik.de/Frodo_Nokia_0_01.tgz)

Just untar the package and then copy frodorc to /home/user/.frodorc

Run with ./Frodo from the Frodo directory. Quit the emu with F10. Docs are included.

I don't have time to test it right now, so if anyone wants to give it a whirl on 770 or 800 (might work too), let me know how it works for you!

Cheers!
Arnim

(edit) Apparently Veli Mankinen first compiled it for maemo back in 2005 :P http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2005-June/000211.html

[dcarter]

yeah, it works on an N800.
its been 25 years though, and I can't remember my peeks and pokes...

additionally, when I press space bar on my thinkoutside keyboard it advances 10 spaces.....

Not sure where I would put programs in order to run them,
but sys64738 command resets the box just like before!!!

pretty cool.

on edit: DAMN, that emulator sapped my full battery in about 30 minutes!!!!

dcarter

[Mika73]

Thanks :)

Could someone who knows these things better make install package of it that would add installed Frodo C64 emulator to N770/N800 Extras menu.

I feel shame, but I dont know how to install it. I havent ever done any root level/terminal tricks with my N800.

But if Frodo takes so much CPU power that it does drain battery at 30min then its not very useful ´On The Road´ when you are not plugged to wall.

Great news anyway :)

--

Its not possible make .frodorc directory to memory card and run frodo from there?

It has to be at /home/user/.frodorc directory?

Yes.. I know.. These are dos/windows user questions.. ;)

-> I tryed.. No luck.. Somehow I had that feeling that it wouldnt work.. :D

[Mika73]

Somebody, please help. I would love to try this software :)

[ArnimS]

Thanks :)
Could someone who knows these things better make install package of it that would add installed Frodo C64 emulator to N770/N800 Extras menu.

But if Frodo takes so much CPU power that it does drain battery at 30min then its not very useful ´On The Road´ when you are not plugged to wall.

Its not possible make .frodorc directory to memory card and run frodo from there? It has to be at /home/user/.frodorc directory?


Installable package is forthcoming. This build is just being made available for testing - so please try out various configurations in the .rc conf file and check compatibility against Commodore applications, test sound and disk access (host mode and floppy drives) etc.

Frodo does not consume excessive battery power. I just ran frodo for 60 minutes with no loss of battery power level on a nokia 770. All emulators are cpu-intensive programs, and require more power than a native app that spends most of its' time sleeping. (Edit) There appears to be a bug on Nokia 800 where battery indicator is not accurate when battery is getting low. Reflashing OS to latest version should solve this.

Some things to do:

Mapping of dpad and buttons to joystick
Map home key to exit emu (F10)
Packaging / Menu items, fullscreen/normalscreen
Double size mode.
Native text input methods
Integration into xmaeme?
???


(Edit) Yes commodore disk files can be copied to MMC and loaded with the emu. In principle.

[Mika73]

Thanks :) Sounds good.

Wonder if it would be possible load C64 PRG, T64, D64 files/images from memorycard. Then it would be easy transfer C64 software for emulator.

I have wild imagination.. I was thinking using Playstation 3 bluetooth controller pad as N800 frodo controller. Wonder if there is other bluetooth controllers. Also using USB joystic with USB mini adapter with emulator would be cool.

http://www.speed-link.de/prod.php?lang=en&sys_id=1&pb_id=1&prod_num=SL-6602-TBE

[Mika73]

Any Frodo news? :)

[mlvj]

If somebody wants to lend me a ps3 bluetooth controller pad, I'd be delighted to write the driver.

Writing the driver for that other bluetooth gamepad I did only took a couple of hours.

Or you could wait a year until I buy a ps3 and hdtv of my own!

[ArnimS]

Any Frodo news? :)

... "nice to load images from memory card"


I have been busy with other ports, but if you use frodo, please leave some feedback. What works? What doesnt? Are there problems with Frodo on the n800 or can this version run w/o problems on both?

Frodo most needs scaled graphics. I'm currently looking into faster screen writes for this and other emulators and games.

Xsp pixel doubling seems to be only usable for some apps, unless someone can show us a way to work around the damage detection / undoubling issues.

Barring that, the only way to get fast screen writes is to emulate what ssvb has done for mplayer and write directly to the framebuffer. It would be nice if this could be done with cooperation from X and SDL, but the people who are qualified for this work seem to be otherwise employed or uninterested.

Loading disk images from memory card works fine here. Check the Frodo documentation for instructions.

[Mika73]

I am waiting for install package, course I dont know how to install it manually. :)

Does Frodo fun full screen or small window?

Thanks :)

[ArnimS]

I am waiting for install package, course I dont know how to install it manually. :)

Does Frodo fun full screen or small window?

Thanks :)

Currently Frodo is not scaled to fullscreen.

to assign disk images to frodo drive a edit ~/.frodorc and assign image type and name, for e.g.:

DriveType8 = D64
DrivePath8 = /home/user/Frodo-4.1b/games/1942.d64

To learn more about C64 and disk images, see

http://www.df.lth.se/~ola/c64-dummies.html


I am working on the GUI now so that you don't have to edit frodorc to load disk images. Also several games require swapping disks during the game,

GUI

- Packaging tcl and tk for Nokia for GUi. done
- Modifying TK preferences window so that it can be hidden (currently hides the frodo window) and fits on screen

http://www.linuxsoft.cz/img/emulators_2/Frodo_pre erences.png

This requires...
- Learning tcl/tk programming

(edit 03:41) Frodo 4.1b does not support swapping of disk images during execution. According to one source, writing to disks without 1541 hardware emulation is said not to work. According to gui menu, mounting of multiple disks is not possible with 1541 hardware emulation turned-off.

(edit 05:04) Frodo Author Christian Bauer appears to have been working on an internal SDL GUI, which would avoid the problems with TK gui (creating a seperate window not registered with hildon), but no changes apparent since 2005

(edit 06:06) CVS access to frodo source with SDL menu appears to be blocked.
(edit 06:21) 10th try with given password and now checkout works.

(What? does he think that will keep me from getting his source?) :D

Looking at CVS now it appears the Frodo authors have a zaurus and that the sdl gui is in current development. It appears that a port with builtin gui features will be available fairly soon.

I have built a cvs version that runs now, but the fullscreen and arrow keys / dpad arrows do not work yet, so there is no user benefit over the previous release.

[jethro.itt]

Just out of curiosity: When you decided to port a C64 emulator, did you investigate VICE? it has an optional GTK2 GUI, already runs on some embedded targets (GP2X) and quite likely has a different set of porting issues compared to Frodo.

You can find VICE at http://www.viceteam.org/

[ArnimS]

Just out of curiosity: When you decided to port a C64 emulator, did you investigate VICE? it has an optional GTK2 GUI, already runs on some embedded targets (GP2X) and quite likely has a different set of porting issues compared to Frodo.

You can find VICE at http://www.viceteam.org/

Yes, but vice has a *lot* of unmet dependencies in scratchbox. I've been slowly hacking away at them. Currently it wants automake 1.9 but scratchbox only has 1.8 support. I managed to build an automake 1.9 deb but it conflicts with x-build.

dpkg -i automake1.9_1.9.6+nogfdl-3_all.deb
dpkg: regarding automake1.9_1.9.6+nogfdl-3_all.deb containing automake1.9:
x-build conflicts with automake1.9

i've contacted the x-build maintainer and asked if it's safe to force an overwrite, or if he could release an updated x-build. no response yet.

(edit) Also see this forum for info on Frodo for the 770 - seems one of the real develoeprs 'blachner' has a 770
http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?act=Search&nav=au&CODE=show&searchid=6f6dac57933995235d366f7297cfeab2&search_in=posts&result_type=posts


cheers

[psjobe]

Yes, but vice has a *lot* of unmet dependencies in scratchbox. I've been slowly hacking away at them. Currently it wants automake 1.9 but scratchbox only has 1.8 support.

I compiled VICE for 770 some time ago, but I don't remember having that much difficulties doing so (Maemo 2.0, Vice 1.20). The gnome gui (use --enable-gnomeui in configure) had only a few gnome function calls which had straightforward gtk equivalents, so it became gtk-only gui.

It worked, but was unusably slow (2-5 fps in games), so I just scrapped the whole project. Maybe it runs better in N800.

[ArnimS]

I compiled VICE for 770 some time ago, but I don't remember having that much difficulties doing so (Maemo 2.0, Vice 1.20). The gnome gui (use --enable-gnomeui in configure) had only a few gnome function calls which had straightforward gtk equivalents, so it became gtk-only gui.

It worked, but was unusably slow (2-5 fps in games), so I just scrapped the whole project. Maybe it runs better in N800.

Strange, frodo runs nice and fast. - Not sure about fps since it's easily above 20 (edit on a 770(. Turning off speed limiting shows frodo running at 330% of C64 speed.

For Vice 1.20 i still have:

Unmet build dependencies: bison++ | bison flex libasound2-dev libbonobo2-dev libbonoboui2-dev libcairo2-dev libgnomecanvas2-dev libgnomeui-dev libieee1284-3-dev libpcap0.8-dev xaw3dg-dev libtwolame-dev libxmu-dev libxxf86dga-dev libxxf86vm-dev libxaw7-dev libxaw-headers

I haven't found out how to reduce those in the rules, configure and automake files.

[psjobe]

Strange, frodo runs nice and fast. - Not sure about fps since it's easily above 20 (edit on a 770(.

Vice is slower than Frodo in general, not just on 770. I guess the emulation is more accurate in Vice.

I haven't found out how to reduce those in the rules, configure and automake files.

I downloaded vice-1.21.tar.gz and it compiled without modifications with ./configure --enable-gnomeui ; make. Those few gnome functions I mentioned before have already been replaced with gtk equivalents in version 1.21.

I guess you are trying to make a deb package. The official tarball doesn't contain any debian/ directory. Anyway, I think you could just check that configure gets only the --enable-gnomeui switch in the rules file, and you could remove all package dependencies in the control file. That way you get it compiled to have a test run. Worry about the package dependencies sometime later.

[ArnimS]

Ok tested vice 1.21 and got keyboard+sound working.

When it's idling, and expensive options are turned off, it reports up to 21 fps on the 770. When running graphics intensive programs framerate drops to 2-3 fps, regardless of options i try.

[Mika73]

Any Frodo news? :)

[Mika73]

Still hoping to hear something new of C64 emulator.. :)

[ArnimS]

I'm waiting for the Frodo authors to reply to my email questions about their plans. Looking at the CVS, they are revising the menu system to make it much more usable.

Until that gets done, i don't see Frodo being user-friendly enough for tablet owners who are shy of the linux shell.

[Grue237]

for those who mentioned a bluetooth ps3 controller, heres somethign more portable.
http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=reviews&id=651

[Jelly-0]

Im going to wait untill the full GUI verson comes out- lo I hope it aint like the NES emu for 770 which is very slow.... :(

[Mika73]

Is there flash support for N800?

http://codeazur.com.br/stuff/fc64_final/

Runs with flash. :)

[blachner]

Hi, I just found this thread about Frodo. I'm the developer of the Frodo Zaurus port and I work also on a port for the Nokia 770.

You can found information of the Zausus port on:
http://lachner-net.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3&Itemid=5&lang=en

There is also a GUI application for Frodo on Zaurus:
http://lachner-net.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=5&lang=en

But this is based on Qt (embedded) and not useful on the Nokia devices. Fore some reasons it is also not the best solution on the Zaurus, so a SDL GUI would be the better way.


(edit 05:04) Frodo Author Christian Bauer appears to have been working on an internal SDL GUI, which would avoid the problems with TK gui (creating a seperate window not registered with hildon), but no changes apparent since 2005Yes. In my opinion SDL GUI would be the best solution for this problem. AFAIK Christian works on this for Frodo 5, but I think he don't work anymore on Frodo 5 or he don't have time to work on it.

So I decided to start SDL GUI development for Frodo 4 which is now in CVS as a first alpha version.

You can find some screenshots of Frodo with SDL GUI and a short description here:
http://lachner-net.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9&Itemid=16&lang=en


Looking at CVS now it appears the Frodo authors have a zaurus and that the sdl gui is in current development. It appears that a port with builtin gui features will be available fairly soon.

Yes I have a Zaurus and also a Nokia 770. And I'm working ont the port. Unfortunately, because we building our house, I haven't much time this year to develop on it. So I think it will take some time till the Nokia 770 port is finished.



I have built a cvs version that runs now, but the fullscreen and arrow keys / dpad arrows do not work yet, so there is no user benefit over the previous release.
Yes, it allready runs on the N770. But it is not really useful, because a on screen keybord is missing. I work at the moment on this in my spare time. I will implement it also as a SDL on screen keybord and use not the meamo on screen keyboard, because it should work on other devices like the Zaurus or OpenMoko phones too.

Nevertheless I plan also to make some packages for maemo soon. At the moment mainly for testing. I set up a garage project for this: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/frodo

[ArnimS]

HOO-RAY! :) Thanks for the work blachner :)

It might be possible to launch xkbd from frodo via system() call and thus bind the input to frodo.

http://pupnik.de/xkbd_m_bottom.gif

http://pupnik.de/xkbd.html

Ottertal looks pretty.

[blachner]

HOO-RAY! :) Thanks for the work blachner :)

It might be possible to launch xkbd from frodo via system() call and thus bind the input to frodo.

http://pupnik.de/xkbd_m_bottom.gif

http://pupnik.de/xkbd.html

Looks interesting. Maybe it is usable as an interim solution until the SDL on screen keyboard is finsished. I will have a closer look at this.

[fanoush]

Also since Frodo is 320x200+borders it would make sense to have pixel doubling enabled at least in fullscreen mode. Too bad Xsp nokia extension is unstable by design (you can't turn pixel doubling off quickly enough if system pops up some dialog ==> screen is messed) . I have somewhat working version of SDL Frodo build with pixeldoubling enabled via Xsp.

Best would be to write some generic code snippet to update screen via framebuffer ioctl like mplayer does it. One could just add such code to project and replace SDL_UpdateRect with such call. ioctl has non-sticky pixeldoubling flag valid only per specific screen update so it will not mess the screen.

Regarding the on-screen keyboard - than would be really nice. If you could code it in modular way so is can be used as a filter after calling SDL_PollEvent (i.e it would translate SDL mouse events to sdl key events) it would be really great and reusable also for many other sdl based projects.

[Mika73]

PSP version of Frodo has keyboard like this. Anyway BT keyboard support would also be nice.. And still dreaming of BT joystic / PS3 controller support. N800 control pad is not good for gaming :)

http://perso.numericable.fr/ckckck/C64_PSPVice.html

[mlvj]

Hiya, I now have a PS3 (yay!)

Has anybody written a PS3 driver for n800/770? Has anybody got the two to pair at all? I would hope there's no encryption or anything.

Anyhow, if nobody has done anything in this area I'll have a stab

[blachner]

Also since Frodo is 320x200+borders it would make sense to have pixel doubling enabled at least in fullscreen mode. Too bad Xsp nokia extension is unstable by design (you can't turn pixel doubling off quickly enough if system pops up some dialog ==> screen is messed) . I have somewhat working version of SDL Frodo build with pixeldoubling enabled via Xsp.
Yes I tried this XSP extension with Frodo after I read about it, on the mameo developer mailing list. It worked, but I think it is not really a good solution. So I decided not to use it.

Also this Xsp solution is device specific. The best way, I think, would be to implement some kind of scaling or pixel doubling directly in the Frodo code. But maybe on some devices this is to slow and device specific code is nevertheless necessary. But for me this is not the first goal for Frodo. First it should be useable than such things like a better screen resolutions on some devices would be nice.


Regarding the on-screen keyboard - than would be really nice. If you could code it in modular way so is can be used as a filter after calling SDL_PollEvent (i.e it would translate SDL mouse events to sdl key events) it would be really great and reusable also for many other sdl based projects.
My solution I work on, is not an universal SDL keybord it is an on screen keybord with a C64 keybord layout.

But you are right, a generic SDL on screen keyboard would be nice. At best with changeable keybord layouts. But this would be more work to do. So I personally will concentrate on a C64 on screen keyboard.

[blachner]

PSP version of Frodo has keyboard like this. Anyway BT keyboard support would also be nice.. And still dreaming of BT joystic / PS3 controller support. N800 control pad is not good for gaming :)

http://perso.numericable.fr/ckckck/C64_PSPVice.html

Thank you for the link. This keyboard looks nicer than the solution I work on at the moment. Maybe I can use some parts of it (the graphics ;) ), if the license allows it and if is useable on higher screen resoultions (At the moment I draw the keyboard and don't use a bitmap which scales better on different screen resolutions but didn't look very nice).

Btw. Pocket Hobbit (Frodo for Pocket PC) have design study for a similar keyboard as PSP Vice. Homepage at http://www.nibbleandbit.net/PocketHobbit/ but seems unreachable at the moment.

[Mika73]

Thank you for the link. This keyboard looks nicer than the solution I work on at the moment. Maybe I can use some parts of it (the graphics ;) ), if the license allows it and if is useable on higher screen resoultions (At the moment I draw the keyboard and don't use a bitmap which scales better on different screen resolutions but didn't look very nice).



Nice hear that it did help :)

I can hardly wait that C64 comes to N800 :)

[hordeman]

Hiya, I now have a PS3 (yay!)

Has anybody written a PS3 driver for n800/770? Has anybody got the two to pair at all? I would hope there's no encryption or anything.

Anyhow, if nobody has done anything in this area I'll have a stab

Can you give it a stab? This may be provide some tips:
http://www.pabr.org/sixlinux/sixlinux.en.html

[gemniii42]

Can you give it a stab? This may be provide some tips:
http://www.pabr.org/sixlinux/sixlinux.en.html
Did you give it a stab?

[Hedgecore]

I installed it and tried it out with my brand spankin new Stowaway BT keyboard. Works awesome, though a littler cumbersome editing the config file to point to a different disk image each time I want to play a different game.

I was also at work so I couldn't take the time to map the joystick to the keyboard... so all I could do in Kickstart II was jump (and consequently fall off of a lot of fences and logs.)

Cheers for bringin the oldschool back.

[dashiad]

Hello...Is this project still being developed?

I was porting it from the latest Frodo version, and then discovered this thread.
The new version does include SDL menus for managing the the disk drives, and includes compilation directives for maemo.

I've been thinking in an SDL on-screen keyboard for it, but my approach now is just assign a key to type in the command to load & run the disk in drive #8, as many games just need this.(yes, i know, f keys are widely used too...)

OTOH, the emulator runs at a fairly quick speed by just refreshing the small emulator window.When i've increased the window size (and fixed buffer-misalignments), the emulation began to slow down by a 50%.Anyway, i'm pretty new to SDL, so maybe there's a smarter way to refresh the screen.

I've also had bad results with full-screen & pixel-doubling.

Is this port still in the works?If so, can i help you in any way so we get this done?

[ArnimS]

My solution I work on, is not an universal SDL keybord it is an on screen keybord with a C64 keybord layout.

But you are right, a generic SDL on screen keyboard would be nice. At best with changeable keybord layouts. But this would be more work to do. So I personally will concentrate on a C64 on screen keyboard.

The xkbd sources could be used for the generic sdl keyboard. This would allow

editable keyboard layouts
save coding time
imported xkbd layouts created by smothermunchie, myself and others

[qole]

I would really appreciate a good C64 emulator with a GUI disk image chooser, running fullscreen and using the D-Pad as a joystick.

This would be far more interesting to me than all the other emulators, like DosBox or Basilisk. As I have said to many people, I've had more fun on my N800 than any computer I've owned since my C64. I would love to have the C64 back on the N800. The tiny screen and other problems (edit a text file to change disk image??!) make it not-very-usable at the moment. Getting a nice big screen is more important to me than an on-screen keyboard.

PS: No luck with FC64 (the flash-based emulator). Oh well.

[ArnimS]

Xsp extension exists and works for 770, N800 and N810.

By using Xsp and an 8-bit SDL surface, you can get 60fps screen updates. Software scaling through sdl will be lower than that, as will higher bpp SDL surfaces.

There exist other options for faster screen updates, but these are also 'device specific'. While I understand that blachner is working on the main cvs tree and does not want to pollute it with device-specific hacks, I do not see this as a valid reason to reject Xsp for tablet builds of Frodo. Indeed I do not see an alternative.

Thanks for working on this
Cheers,

[Grunchy]

First of all, Thanks!!! This is something I dreamed of having, so many years ago....

I had a hell of a time getting this to work in this beta state. I had much experience with C64 dos but not a lot with Linux, so I am unafraid to try but it took me awhile.

You have to get X Terminal for Nokia 770:
http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationCatalog/#870a05b0dd86f9380dc30048342d156c

Install that and download Frodo to your memory card and you're ready to try it.
http://pupnik.de/Frodo_Nokia_0_01.tgz

Fire up X Term and command this:
tar -zxvf /media/mmc1/Frodo*

This will uncompress the first file starting with "Frodo" on your memory card. You could type the whole filename on your Nokia 770 virtual keyboard but this works just as good.

Next, bring up file manager and rename the folder it just created to something easy, like "F".

Go back to X Term and command:
cp -r /media/mmc1/F .

That copies the entire "F" folder to your current directory, which is /home/user.

Next, rename it:
mv F .frodorc

You'll see it is gone if you command "ls". Try "ls -a" instead, and scroll up to see all the listings.

Change into the new folder:
cd .frodorc

Lastly, start the emulator:
./Frodo

As I say, it took me awhile (like, 7 months) to get it started. PLEASE continue with Frodo. I don't have a bluetooth keyboard so that is as far as I got, but it is SO close, it would be a real shame to stop now.

I hope this inspires a couple more 'old neophytes' to give it a shot & post a word of encouragement.

Best of luck!

[Grunchy]

Btw. Pocket Hobbit (Frodo for Pocket PC) have design study for a similar keyboard as PSP Vice. Homepage at http://www.nibbleandbit.net/PocketHobbit/ but seems unreachable at the moment.

Try this link, it is the last known saved page (from June 26 2007):
http://web.archive.org/web/20070626155156/http://www.nibbleandbit.net/PocketHobbit/

[ArnimS]

Achhaa! and it contains der older pockethobbit source (not the exact cycle one).

http://pupnik.de/PocketHobbit_src.zip

(edit) and there's always gp2x-land for closer ports than winCE
http://gp2x.org/gp2x/frodo/frodo2x-0.9.9-src.tar.gz

[blachner]

Xsp extension exists and works for 770, N800 and N810.

By using Xsp and an 8-bit SDL surface, you can get 60fps screen updates. Software scaling through sdl will be lower than that, as will higher bpp SDL surfaces.

There exist other options for faster screen updates, but these are also 'device specific'. While I understand that blachner is working on the main cvs tree and does not want to pollute it with device-specific hacks, I do not see this as a valid reason to reject Xsp for tablet builds of Frodo. Indeed I do not see an alternative.

Yes I'm working on the main cvs tree, but there is already device (platform) specific code, because it works on many platforms, not only Linux.

So I will also add specific code for Maemo (and probably Qtopia). There is already a configure option for this in the Frodo CVS.

[blachner]

Is this port still in the works?If so, can i help you in any way so we get this done?
Yes, I still work on this port. A short status update:

- I added necessary things to create Frodo Maemo packages. So I now can create a Frodo package that is installable via the Maemo Software Manager and Frodo can start from the menu.

This means I can start Frodo on my N810 from menu now and it works because of the N810 hardware keyboard, but:

- It is not really usable, because the C64 screen is to small. So this is the strongest problem which I must solve. After this is done and some bugs are fixed in the SDL GUI, Frodo should be usable on the N810.

- For other devices a onscreen keyboard is missing. I think I will work on this after it is usable on the N810.


The goal is to extend the original Frodo that it can work on many embedded Linux devices (not only Mamo based but for example also on Qtopia and OpenMoko based devices). So I try to find a solution for screen scaling and onscreen keyboard which is not device specific. At the moment I work on the screen scaling problem, but unfortunately I have not much time so this may take some time.

[fms]

Please, excuse my ignorance, but what is Xsp extension and where can I find documentation on it?

[blachner]

Achhaa! and it contains der older pockethobbit source (not the exact cycle one).

http://pupnik.de/PocketHobbit_src.zip

(edit) and there's always gp2x-land for closer ports than winCE
http://gp2x.org/gp2x/frodo/frodo2x-0.9.9-src.tar.gz

I have the latest sources of PockeHobbit. The PocketHobbit author sent it to me some time ago. Maybe some parts are usable.

I know about the gp2x port, because I heard about the gp2x related Open Pandorra device (http://www.openpandora.org/).

Unfortunately no one from other "embedded" Frodo ports tried to get its code to the original Frodo source tree and add some configure options. I hope that the extended Frodo Version I work on, will also work (with no or small modification) on devices like the gp2x or the OpenPandora if it comes to market. At least if the sdl is running on these devices.

[blachner]

Please, excuse my ignorance, but what is Xsp extension and where can I find documentation on it?

You can find informations about it here:
http://maemo.org/community/wiki/gamedevelopment/

[fanoush]

You can find informations about it here:
http://maemo.org/community/wiki/gamedevelopment/

There is one problem with Xsp. It is inherently unsafe. You turn pixel doubling on and off and it has global effect but you're not guaranteed to be the only one updating the screen. Any random system screen update (even in full screen - infoprint, task navigator menu, ...) can mess up the screen to the point you need to reboot to see anything again. Otherwise it mostly works :-) In OS2006 it was enough to turn it on, blit the rectangle via SDL and then turn it off again, in OS2007 it didn't work for me and output was not pixel doubled until I turned it on and left it on. One can then check SDL focus lost event to turn it off but it was not fast enough for me, the menu popped up by home key was faster when I tried :-(

The safe way is how mplayer does it, use direct framebuffer ioctl for screen update. This update has pixeldoubling flag which is valid only for that specific screen update.

Would be nice to have optimized SDL for current line of tablets with such direct framebuffer stuff. Sadly there is no time, only ideas.

[fms]

I guess I would be more interested in how to access the frame buffer directly: right now, I am going through GtkImage and it may not be the optimal way of doing things. Xsp appears to provide interface to schedule screen updates, but not direct frame buffer access.

[fanoush]

I guess I would be more interested in how to access the frame buffer directly


https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libvo/?root=mplayer
see vo_nokia770.c and omapfb.h


Xsp appears to provide interface to schedule screen updates, but not direct frame buffer access.
Really? I though it is only related to pixel doubling, touchscreen raw data and pressure sensitivity.

[fms]

see vo_nokia770.c and omapfb.h
!!!

Really? I though it is only related to pixel doubling, touchscreen raw data and pressure sensitivity.
There is a pair of XSPRegisterDSPArea()/XSPCancelDSPArea that I've understood as having something to do with display rather than input.

[fanoush]

!!!

If you will look into it for your emulators, maybe you could think about hiding all that stuff into hacked SDL so all SDL apps could benefit from it? Adding direct framebuffer driver as SDL video driver should be doable.


There is a pair of XSPRegisterDSPArea()/XSPCancelDSPArea that I've understood as having something to do with display rather than input.
Forgot about that one. I think it is used only on 770 for synchrinization with dsp when playing video in stock media player, some video codecs are done as dsp tasks. This is no longer true for N8x0 so these are probably just empty stubs now.

[fms]

If you will look into it for your emulators, maybe you could think about hiding all that stuff into hacked SDL so all SDL apps could benefit from it? Adding direct framebuffer driver as SDL video driver should be doable.
I do not really use SDL, but may add direct frame buffer access to EMULib, if I have enough time.

[st5150]

This emutor is off to a great start. I added the lines to frodorc to mount a D64 image as drive 8, but how can I type LOAD "*",8,1 ? Can't figure out the "*" part.

[Den in USA]

Don't know

[ArnimS]

This emutor is off to a great start. I added the lines to frodorc to mount a D64 image as drive 8, but how can I type LOAD "*",8,1 ? Can't figure out the "*" part.

XVKBD

http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18621&highlight=xvkbd

[Grunchy]

Hey I finally got a deal on an N810! How is this Frodo project yet? :)

[st5150]

Seems pretty dead :(

Anyone played with C64 maemo emulation lately?

[hordeman]

I want to know too!

[blachner]

I have not done as much as I want to do on the Frodo Meamo port in the last years, because for different reasons I haven't much spare time.

Things I have done:
- On screen settings dialogs. In my opinion this is in early beta state.
- Beginning packaging for N810. Works well, but I never released it.

What is really missing for a good maemo port for devices without keyboard, is a integrated on screen keyboard.

What are my plans in the near term (Hopefully ;) ):
- I try to restart my maemo development and release Frodo beta packages for N810. Why not already done see problems below. ;-)
- Solve the problems with on screen settings dialogs and release a final version for N810.

Problems:
- Unfortunately I have some trouble with scrachtchbox installation on openSUSE 11.2 64 Bit. You can read about this in another thread here.
- An other problem I have, is not a technical problem. Because I don't know 100% about the C64 ROM copyright situation I will remove the integrated ROM code in Frodo before I release packages. Or can someone tell me who is the current copyright owner of the C64 ROMs and if free usage is allowed?

Maybe someone can hale with this problems?

My future plans:
- I have decided for me, not to work on an on screen keyboard on current Frodo/SDL base.
- I think it would be better to port Frodo to Qt and use Qt GUI elements for settings dialog and use the system On screen keyboard if needed.
- Nevertheless a real C64 on screen keyboard with C64 layout based on Qt would be nice too.

What are the benefits of this plan:
- GUI is easier to develop.
- Frodo/Qt should work on future Maemo and Symbian devices which offer Qt.
- Frodo/Qt also could work on Windows Mobile.

I hope I have time to do this, but Help is welcome. ;) A garage project to work together already exists. At the moement there is no code because I use the Frodo CVS from the original author of Frodo. But I think the code of a Frodo Qt port should move to this project when development starts.

[ArnimS]

I have not done as much as I want to do on the Frodo Meamo port in the last years, because for different reasons I haven't much spare time.

And yet, it appears that you have done more than anyone else in the world, in that time!


Things I have done:
- On screen settings dialogs. In my opinion this is in early beta state.
- Beginning packaging for N810. Works well, but I never released it.

What is really missing for a good maemo port for devices without keyboard, is a integrated on screen keyboard.

The way maemo / N800 integrates on-screen keyboard with apps is simply not applicable to emulators, because the host OS does not know (can not know, really) anything about the programs runninng in the emulator. We fall back to lower-level X input (xkbd, xvkbd) for this reason. Addison's tireless work making this better is perhaps under-appreciated here.


What are my plans in the near term (Hopefully ;) ):
- I try to restart my maemo development and release Frodo beta packages for N810. Why not already done see problems below. ;-)
- Solve the problems with on screen settings dialogs and release a final version for N810.

If you need fast answers on basic sdk/dev issues, stop by #maemo irc channel on freenode. T.M.O isn't much of a dev hangout anymore.


Problems:
- Unfortunately I have some trouble with scrachtchbox installation on openSUSE 11.2 64 Bit. You can read about this in another thread here.
- An other problem I have, is not a technical problem. Because I don't know 100% about the C64 ROM copyright situation I will remove the integrated ROM code in Frodo before I release packages. Or can someone tell me who is the current copyright owner of the C64 ROMs and if free usage is allowed?

I found three companies that have distributed these ROMS commercialy since the demise of Commodore in 1964.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QVC
http://www.c64forever.com/
http://www.amazon.de/C64-Classix-Gold-Software-Pyramide/dp/B000QGDWX0

The last link is to a CD of C64 games distributed in germany. Cheap and legal, plus you get a nice set of games.


- I have decided for me, not to work on an on screen keyboard on current Frodo/SDL base.
- I think it would be better to port Frodo to Qt and use Qt GUI elements for settings dialog and use the system On screen keyboard if needed.
- Nevertheless a real C64 on screen keyboard with C64 layout based on Qt would be nice too.

What are the benefits of this plan:
- GUI is easier to develop.
- Frodo/Qt should work on future Maemo and Symbian devices which offer Qt.
- Frodo/Qt also could work on Windows Mobile.


Well whoever does the work, gets to pick the path.

A SDL-keyboard has been written, but there may be no good way to integrate it in such a way to work for any SDL program.


I hope I have time to do this, but Help is welcome. ;) A garage project to work together already exists. At the moement there is no code because I use the Frodo CVS from the original author of Frodo. But I think the code of a Frodo Qt port should move to this project when development starts.

Perhaps a look at the hildon-games framework is in order. I think a frontend in native-OS style (hildon or qt) is much preferable to in-screen UI.

Thanks Blachner, and frohe Weihnachten

btw a coder named Manomio apparently got therights. But apple rejected the emulator --- because it was an emulator that could run other code!

http://toucharcade.com/2009/06/20/full-commodore-64-emulator-rejected-from-app-store/
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/06/22/legal-c64-emulator-rejected-from-app-store/1

[st5150]

Thanks for the update and your contributions blachner! We're eagerly waiting for the next release.

[ArnimS]

http://pupnik.de/transp_keybd_Nokia_770.jpg

no reason to not have a full keyboard in sdl games

[st5150]

Wow, looks great. What game is that?
Can't wait to load "*",8

[fabbro]

no reason to not have a full keyboard in sdl games

The game could be Ultima "something".
But the keyboard... I've never seen that: cool.
Is it just a customization of the game, or something runnable on top of any app?

[Baron]

Sorry for being idiot, but does Frodo emulator work on n900?

[ArnimS]

The game could be Ultima "something".
But the keyboard... I've never seen that: cool.
Is it just a customization of the game, or something runnable on top of any app?

It's just a mockup I did, showing what i want.

"Why hasen't aneyone done it yet!?!11 Oh yea caus >>>I<<< dint do it!"

I is you ...

[hordeman]

Somehow I missed the update to this thread. Looking forward to the update! Sounds like you've done a lot of work already that we will one day see! :)

[AloxeCorton]

Sorry for being idiot, but does Frodo emulator work on n900?

That makes 2 idiots :p
No really...I'm seriously interested....especially with the TV-output of the N900, you can have a C64 in box.

-=AC=-

[toucan murphy]

any update on qtc64 or n900 runnable version?

[scorpio16v]

Vice runs fine on N900 under easy debian. :)
I hope qole gets sound running in later images, :(
Is an onscreen keyboard possible under Vice ?
C64 specific keys and return don't work, but it is possible to map hardwarekeys for directions and fire.

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7237/screenshot11w.th.jpg (http://img121.imageshack.us/i/screenshot11w.jpg/) http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6880/screenshot13x.th.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/i/screenshot13x.jpg/) http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/747/screenshot15fb.th.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/screenshot15fb.jpg/) http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8683/screenshot14i.th.jpg (http://img688.imageshack.us/i/screenshot14i.jpg/)

[dread123]

qole has got sound working in new release of easy debian

[toucan murphy]

sorry for being a total n00b but how can i install this? do i have to install easy debian first and if so how and then how do i install vice?

[scorpio16v]

sorry for being a total n00b but how can i install this? do i have to install easy debian first and if so how and then how do i install vice?

Yes :)

If you've installed easy debian, you can install Vice.
You need to copy the folders C64, DRIVES and PRINTER from Windows version of Vice.
Paste it under usr/lib/vice in easy debian image and start it with debian-chroot " x64 " or under LXDE with the menue entry.
I'm trying the new image from qole, to get sound running, but I have no luck yet. :o

[Zelig87]

I used to love David's Midnight Magic pinball game on my C64.

I would play that for hours on my N900 if I could get it up and running.

[whaleyboy]

Any updates on Frodo for the N900? I know you can run vice in easy debian but that is a little too complex a procedure for most users. Seems like the C64 is the only missing emulated machine on the N900...would be nice to fill that particular hole! :)

[Bazza]

Dont forget amstrad, atari linx and amiga (especially amiga) plenty of mouse games to be played and all those public domain demo's.:D:D

[kav]

Dont forget amstrad, atari linx and amiga (especially amiga) plenty of mouse games to be played and all those public domain demo's.:D:D

+1 for Amiga emulator :)

I've got my a1200 here and a ton of floppies but emulated is always fun.

Where is the C16 love? Don't think I've ever seen an emu for it.

K.

[whaleyboy]

Dont forget amstrad, atari linx and amiga (especially amiga) plenty of mouse games to be played and all those public domain demo's.:D:D

yeah thinking about there are quite a lot of holes to be filled! A lynx emu would be awesome! Still, it seems like Frodo should be easiest as there is already a working maemo version.

[Bazza]

+1 for Amiga emulator :)

I've got my a1200 here and a ton of floppies but emulated is always fun.

Where is the C16 love? Don't think I've ever seen an emu for it.

K.

Very true,

The only game i can remember for the c16 was kickstart.;)

I had an amiga 500 upgraded to 1mb but gave it to my bro, for some reason though i kept hold of all the floppies which are no use to me now.:mad:

[Bazza]

yeah thinking about there are quite a lot of holes to be filled! A lynx emu would be awesome! Still, it seems like Frodo should be easiest as there is already a working maemo version.

Lynx would be good

Thanks for spelling Lynx correctly unlike me.:rolleyes:

[badboyuk]

cmon what is with zelda?! such a crappy game. Someone should load up golden eye or something proper to really test the emulator out :-P

[Bazza]

cmon what is with zelda?! such a crappy game. Someone should load up golden eye or something proper to really test the emulator out :-P

Wrong thread pal :D:D:D

This is a thread on commodore 64 emulation.:)

[Maemish]

I would really like to have Frodo to run on Nokia N810. I was playing for a while with Nokia E90 in this autumn and contacted the developer who ported the Frodo emulator with Bilbo library with audio to symbian. He sent me all his files concerning Frodo for symbian for different symbian versions, keyboard configs etc. etc. to share. If there is someone willing to hassle with this to get it work on N810 I can sent all those files. Or was this already ported as a working model on N900 which could be used on N810?

[Maemish]

The Bilbo library had been since now only for donators but the links to download had been gone for a long time. But the developer was a finnish guy and I looked for his number and called and he made everything freeware/shareware and searched all the stuff from his old backups.

[Maemish]

The reason I need Frodo is to watch C64 demos which I have many gigas to watch. N900 has too small screen and E90 screen and sound is nothing compared to N810.

[clort]

The reason I need Frodo is to watch C64 demos which I have many gigas to watch. N900 has too small screen and E90 screen and sound is nothing compared to N810.
Hi Maemish,

I don't have an N810 to test but the original binary is archived at web.archive.org:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090216132831/http://pupnik.de/frodo.html

P.S. Archive.org needs your support!

I also downloaded vice Commodore emulator from devuan repos to droid4.
Copied the 'kernal' into /home/user/.config/vice/C64
then ran 'x64' and got running emulator.
Cpu use is high, possibly due to the shaders providing scanlines.

[EDIT] disabling "CRT" emulation in video settings, and changing audio resampler to "Fast" took x64 from 120% cpu to 70-74%.

also a plug must be made for the most awesome PETSCII game ever
https://csdb.dk/release/?id=173193
https://csdb.dk/gfx/releases/173000/173193.gif