How will meego pull it off

[bayernhan]

Nokia's marketing management should realize their is nothing promising in the future of meego.I mean we have seen the ui and there is nothing unique about it.I don't see meego increasing in popularity when it is released.Overall I don't see a reason for nokia to go with meego on next devices.After the nokia n97 failure they managed to make a good os maemo 5 and it is lost in popularity

So how will meego pull it of?How will it be a success.We all know by now it won't gain the average popularity of the iphone os, but will it gain a close margin to android?

your thoughts..........

[ysss]

1. iPhone and Android is neck to neck in terms of worldwide marketshare. Judging by the rate of adoption, Android is going to overtake iPhone for good once iPhone 4 fever is over.
By 'popularity' and 'mindshare', iPhone may still lead for a longer period of time.

2. The late comer usually has the advantage of learning from its predecessor's mistake... and they don't have the 'backward compatibility' baggage that their opponents (with significant existing userbases) have, so they're more free to incorporate new designs into their platform.

How will MeeGo pull it off? I'm hoping Intel will modularize and commoditize the handheld market... but I don't think anyone else (beside Intel) wants that to happen.

[dantonic]

Not sure why you're so quick to dismiss meego.

The UI looks pretty amazing and unique to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4vv7yFaqxw

and this is only the "pre-alpha"
Looks much better than the apple iPad UI already.

Hopefully they can incorporate this same feel in the smaller screen devices as well.

I personally think it will be a hit.

[acou]

Just wait and see...

[bergie]

This may answer some of your questions: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bergie/4757094432/

[gerbick]

I'm starting to think that MeeGo, even with Qt will not do well. My reasoning? The similar Linux based WebOS even had a better documented SDK and tools and a flashier UI and seems to be treated like a second class citizen.

I want be wrong, willing to see how things play out.

[Dave999]

Don't think meego will be so much better than maemo 5(sales). What is going to give me reaseon to still believe in meego is. if/when i see other vendnors using meego. Otherwhise, It's DOA. Will probably still buy one just to see what Intel and nokia are up to.

[wmarone]

I'm starting to think that MeeGo, even with Qt will not do well. My reasoning? The similar Linux based WebOS even had a better documented SDK and tools and a flashier UI and seems to be treated like a second class citizen.

When you're the only player in the market with a given toolkit, you have to be on the top in your marketing and reach critical mass quick. webOS faltered for this reason. On top of that, it's toolkit (unless I'm looking at it wrong) seems centered around HTML, CSS, and Javascript which strike me as not being terribly -fast-. Anything beyond that forces you into their Plugin Development kit, which isn't (easily) portable.

It's for this same reason I think Bada and whatever Motorola is planning will falter. Yet another API, yet another toolkit, and only one vendor backing it. Too much fragmentation, which is what Nokia and Intel moved to avoid.

Whereas with Qt, MeeGo is deploying a toolkit that's in wide use already, and available on pretty much every platform in existence. MeeGo is not bound to Nokia, either, which means that (like the Kernel itself) third parties can pick it up and use it without appearing to be playing second fiddle to Nokia.

[quipper8]

it is basically taking the same model as android so it will probably do pretty well.

also meego, clock cycle for clock cycle will be faster than android

also with intel backing and hopefully some new killer chip, it will be easy to spread far and wide into every kind of device possible.

look at something like the nokia n8 coming out now as a predecessor of things to come, especially for appliances or vehicles that are already plugged in, you can put a moorestown cpu in there and have hd playback with surrond, usb otg support, keyba,oard and mouse support over bt in something smaller than a deck of cards.



you can put that into ANYTHING, cars tvs refrigerators whatever.

meego will be way more adaptable to this kind of stuff in the future than android will be.

it is about way more than the ui

[Mr. Ben]

I too have my doubts. I like Meego, I think the "total crossplatform" philosophy is a good one and it looks like developers could easily work with it. Plus you could build an app once and it could work on phones, netbooks, etc with minimal alterations (this seems to be Apple's philosophy as well.)
Unfortunately I think Android and Apple have the market pretty well locked up. Nokia is not a "cool" company in the public's eye, nor is intel. Unless they can strike some amazing deals withe AtT, or verizon, I don't see Meego getting too far.

[BatPenguin]

I think that particular video of the tablet is actually very nice. Since they're showing the video already, the "alpha" part pretty much probably means that the UI is ready, so I don't expect it to change much from that.

So yeah, if the marketting is done right (which, in reality, will decide the fate of these devices, not Qt or any other acronym), I don't see why people wouldn't want devices like that. I certainly think it looks pretty cool, even compared to any other OS I can think of. It really isn't "spectacular" in any way, but it doesn't fail in any way either. It doesn't appear to have the Symbian ugliness or the Maemo inconsistent clunkiness to it, so yeah, I think it might work on a tablet for the mass market too IF it came with the same sort of services you can get for the Ipad and the armada of Android tablets soon coming, meaning magazine subscriptions, ebooks, video services, etc, whatever people will want. Of course, I'm also supposing that the Meego devices will be clearly cheaper than the Ipads and that there's a lot of choices between them, not just one or two Nokia tablets available, vs. Apples one device (works for them) and Android's 40.

I think the main point for why it just might succeed on tablets is that it's not yet late to the game, really: the Ipad is here, but the competition (Android tablets) is not. The whole "what are these types of computers used for" idea is still in the process of forming, it's not very established yet. So if the Androids don't come out (too much) before the Meego tablets/pads/whatever, and they seem to match up pretty evenly in terms of "what you can do with it" (forget 10% speed differences or Qt, tools don't matter, success does), I don't see why these Meegos couldn't, if properly marketted, compete.

For phones, I frankly don't believe in Meego one bit. When you strip that video there into "how it must look on a phone", it'll be pretty much Android minus the 100,000 apps, Google-hookup and marketting. If we think about what Nokia does with phones, there's going to be some god-awful Nokia email program, calendar that supports nothing, and horrible Ovi services slapped to that, so yeah, fail.

My guess: a minor phone OS but one of the major tablet OS's.

Somebody should bookmark this thread and check in two years time who was right :)

[n900faniam]

I'm confident meego is going to be a huge hit. the preview we've had so far is very positive stuff. Don't knock this os till it's had its day

[Odd_gunnic]

I'm starting to think that MeeGo, even with Qt will not do well. My reasoning? The similar Linux based WebOS even had a better documented SDK and tools and a flashier UI and seems to be treated like a second class citizen.

I want be wrong, willing to see how things play out.

I think part of the reason webOS has had a hard time is largely due to hardware

[bayernhan]

I agree but the mobile version looks like its from 2006 and not so much better ui than maemo 5

[bayernhan]

Well intel is dominant in processor manufacturing, at least not in mobile devices.Unless nokia does something revulutionary in hardware specs they will never return to how they were and stay in the n97 era

[BatPenguin]

I agree but the mobile version looks like its from 2006 and not so much better ui than maemo 5

Is there some new pics or reviews etc. about the mobile UI? I seem to remember that something was supposed to be released in June, is there an actual video of a "Meego phone" somewhere?

[Dave999]

Is there some new pics or reviews etc. about the mobile UI? I seem to remember that something was supposed to be released in June, is there an actual video of a "Meego phone" somewhere?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW5wpg5epMs

Pre-alpa...

[BatPenguin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW5wpg5epMs

Pre-alpa...

Thanks for the link. And, hmm, yeah...even if I ignore the lag (the alpha part is very visible there), that really doesn't show anything at all impressive. It's like Android 1.5 with uglier icons. It's of course missing all widgets etc. but wow, I'm really trying here and cannot think of anything impressive about that video.

The best I can say is that when finished, it might look close enough to Android/Iphone to keep the Symbian users from moving to those systems from Nokia when they upgrade their old Symbian phones next year. That's probably the whole point of Meego on the phones, anyway. They better get that out way before Android 3 makes it look even more out of date.

Not impressed at all, totally just strengthens my feelings about what I wrote before.

[ndi]

Sigh... Must be alone.

I don't like the MeeGo UI with the scrolls over there. Who thought it would be a good idea to put all my pictures and videos on the base screen? And web pages. And recents. This is the kind of thing that only looks cool in a demo. WTH.

I don't Twit, nor do I have nor want Facebook, because I have no desire to plaster my face all over the net. A whole band to social networking? Where every twit's tweet is displayed? How long until you finally match a bad photo with a bad moment?

I hope it has something better to show for itself. That UI has nothing new other that the silly idea we want everything we have on the phone largely and prominently displayed. Other than that, it's a bunch of headers consisting of JPG or a PNG or whatnot. The rest of the colors look nice because all that dude has are demo pictures.

Replace the shiny color splashes with your dull camera-shot images and screenshots, the models with actual people, and it starts to seem like less of a good idea.

Also, is it me or are some things insanely fast? Either Maemo 5 is wet toilet paper, or they use a better CPU than the 600 we run. OTOH, N900 is dull as a watermelon on stock speed. I don't think I ever saw a non-amateur demo of N900 at stock.

Oh well. We'll see.

ETA:
The best I can say is that when finished, it might look close enough to Android/Iphone

It will never look like IPhone because it will never have the polished UI look. We all thought N900 will look polished once the ball gets rolling.

Even with more than I expected from the community, you simply can't match the design dept of a massive corp with a community effort.

I expect, as with M5, for the default themes to remain the the top 5. Meaning, it will look pretty much how it ships.

I hope I'm wrong.

[gerbick]

I think part of the reason webOS has had a hard time is largely due to hardware

Palm Pre Plus specs:
500 MHz Texas Instruments OMAP 3430 (ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX)
512mb RAM
16gb internal storage
Only the screen and CPU clockspeed is really lesser than the stock N900.

I'm sure there are other differences, but the hardware between the N900 and Palm Pre Plus is rather similar. There's been a few other folks around here that's stated the same.

The move of their SDK to HTML/CSS/JavaScript means that a lot of webdevs could have picked it up. It's the lowest common denominator in terms of development.

Palm had a lot of gaffes though, lack of software from the start, lack of games, and some other things. But the point is though that they had the marketing - weird marketing in the US, but they were marketed.

Nokia and marketing do not belong in the same sentence in North America and Japan. To see them pull just that part off (marketing), I'll be surprised.

[imperiallight]

Palm Pre has been overclocked to 1GHz too.

[lwa]

every day i wonder more and more if nokia can pull it off....i hope they can but my gf just moved fom an iphone to a htc desire. 2 days ago android wasnt on my radar, as the last time i saw it was on the G1.. it is scary how far it has come in that time, and how much further it will be by the time we see the n9...

Meego is already too fragmented to create one seemless ux from device to device... ovi store, appup store, then when we get suse meego we will see 'suse store powered by app up', then linpus will want their own... at least android has a central marketplace for all devices...

the only really impressive demo we have seen so far was running on top of windows 7 (the tablet ui) which probably explains why it looks NOTHING like the netbook and handset versions that are both simiarly themed...

hm... this post came out more negitive than i expected, in short i want meego to do well and i know they have until october to get 1.1 up to scratch, but the odds arnt completely in their favour and i dont think they have convinced me yet it can be a viable mass market ptoduct....

[NvyUs]

geek's and power users will most probably not like meego UI but its not that genre they are trying to please any more so lets wait until there is devices with it on and then the mass market will decide.
i honestly think it will do very well b/c there is already multiple vendors and carriers on board and its not even out, that's more support than Maemo as had in 4 years

[imperiallight]

Nokia's latest advertising strategy for the n900 seems pretty desperate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_3VHN8Q_xA&feature=related

[daddeddad]

Nokia's latest advertising strategy for the n900 seems pretty desperate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_3VHN8Q_xA&feature=related

What, how, when?
I's not getting its.

[imperiallight]

I don't know, I just found it typing in n900 into youtube!!

[mmurfin87]

I'm starting to think that MeeGo, even with Qt will not do well. My reasoning? The similar Linux based WebOS even had a better documented SDK and tools and a flashier UI and seems to be treated like a second class citizen.

I want be wrong, willing to see how things play out.

Another thing to consider is that WebOS may not be dead. HP acquired it and we have yet to see what HP will do with it.

WebOS is too early in its life to call.

[bayernhan]

like gerbrick I hope I too am wrong about this and I hope that I am suprised

Every year nokia moves away from the company once I knew to something a bit stranger.Meego will still be opensource how ever, I just hope they improve their ui in mobile phones from something like a android wannabe masscot to something unique

I also think moving to meego is a big risk,and it might have bigger cost than the n97

[geneven]

I think that Nokia has been running on bluster for some time and will not be able to make anything substantial out of step 5 out of 5 even with the help of Intel. I think that the next really big thing is very possibly coming from someone we haven't heard of yet.

[maxximuscool]

My thought for MeeGo is pretty much the same to Maemo5 OS. If they want to make their phone selling at a good rate then OS alone will not take them anywhere.

I believe if they redesign and make their device as slick as possible, eliminate any ugly duckly pastic cosmetic and thickness of the design, and much superior Hardware(s) atleast 30% better than it's competition. Then they might have a really good chance of winning the game. My hope is Nokia will risk a ittle and bringing out an:

Optical Zoom phone, Xeon flash + Dual LED + dual core cpu + atleast 600MB RAM + 3D graphic + Keyboard + resistive multi-touch + THIN

This will instantly won me over every device out there :) (i'm dreaming)

For example: The new MeeGO device will have to be future proof hardware. Lowering down the production version and everytime the new version coming out, there will be hardware upgraded onto it as well.

OS + Hardware + design = SELLING POINT!

This is what Apple do best by the way. Their device is slick and very easy to manage. But lack of multi-taskings (older version) and lack of open-ness. Otherwise I agreed that iphone 4 is very slick indeed.

[Laughing Man]

The thing that will determine Meego's success is how many manufactuers they can get on board. And how many platforms they can get on (netbooks, tvs, car systems, etc...)

[kryptoniankid17]

Nokia's marketing management should realize their is nothing promising in the future of meego.I mean we have seen the ui and there is nothing unique about it.I don't see meego increasing in popularity when it is released.Overall I don't see a reason for nokia to go with meego on next devices.After the nokia n97 failure they managed to make a good os maemo 5 and it is lost in popularity

So how will meego pull it of?How will it be a success.We all know by now it won't gain the average popularity of the iphone os, but will it gain a close margin to android?

your thoughts..........

u do realise that this is an alpha release. Its like comparing batter to a baked cake relax. Start complaining when we have an actual official non beta, non alpha release.

[Odd_gunnic]

There's certainly alot of speculation here but the truth is we technically haven't seen Nokia's offerings...

[bayernhan]

u do realise that this is an alpha release. Its like comparing batter to a baked cake relax. Start complaining when we have an actual official non beta, non alpha release.

im not complaining, I just know that nokia has a tendency to release products without the firmware or os mature enough or with bugs.I want to be wrong about this I hope meego will become a big sucess but I just dont see it

[kryptoniankid17]

im not complaining, I just know that nokia has a tendency to release products without the firmware or os mature enough or with bugs.I want to be wrong about this I hope meego will become a big sucess but I just dont see it

but i can certainily feel your frustration towards nokia. But lets waite for a beta at least.

[kureyon]

also with intel backing and hopefully some new killer chip, it will be easy to spread far and wide into every kind of device possible.

Intel doesn't know how to do low power. If you're looking for a portable device with long battery life then forget whatever wonder chip Intel comes up with.

[dchky]

After the nokia n97 failure


I think Nokia's marketing group know a thing or two more about selling phones and operating systems than you do. MeeGo will do okay for itself - while I feel the interface is boring right now, obviously each manufacturer is going to code up their own stuff to make it interesting and worthwhile.

Now, seems like nobody else called you out on this, so I will.

In which universe do you live that you can say 3 million odd units (talking about the N97 here) shipped amounts to a failure? You, sir, have no clue what you are talking about. 10 million 5800's sold.

If you believe the stats, it appears Nokia are shipping about 300 million handsets each year, give or take a handful of millions or so. I think their bank account is pretty healthy myself.

[daddeddad]

im not complaining, I just know that nokia has a tendency to release products without the firmware or os mature enough or with bugs.I want to be wrong about this I hope meego will become a big sucess but I just dont see it

Just like any company in tech then? :D

Think of n900 as vista and next meego-phone as win7?

[qgil]

How do operators,chipset vendors and device vendors fit in your pronostics? They are relevant stakeholders, factors of success. How happy are they about Apple, Google etc and how could MeeGo make them more happy than these competitors?

Not an easy question but just as relevant as good UI, good developer offering and good apps.

[Kangal]

My thoughts on mobile OS's.

There are 3 outstanding competitors; iOS (v4+), Android (v2.1+) and MeeGo.

Obviously iOS is cross-compatible (iPhone, 3G, 3GS, 4, iTouch, iTouch3, iPad) but not across different standards (ARM, x86, RISC) and only supports hardware manufactured by Apple, which is a big disadvantage and I don't support it.

Android is everything I like; its touch-based OS for underpowered devices, cross-compatible and multi-platform (x86 & ARM). It is average complexity (has its limits), has a great UI, already available widespread and very popular. It is java-based so Apps are relatively easy to write. All the big plus'es, but it is much reliant on the VM so Apps run "slower" and basically to make a port you need to start from scratch.

MeeGo is "smarter" than Android in some aspects. It is exactly like the Android platform (touch OS, great UI, cross-compatable, multiplatform) with two exceptions. This exception is in its solution to cross-compatability. Instead of java/dalvik, it uses Qt, making it possible to keep its cross-compatability even across platforms. Qt allows the software one step closer to the hardware, so it can run "faster" than java-based software. In addition, Qt makes it possible to port existing Linux apps (and there's many) to the MeeGo base. The second exception is that MeeGo has strict rules on UI, you may apply skins/themes but each version will require the same UX. This is a good thing, you can customize things but there is a limit, so if you used MeeGo on X device you know how to use Y device. And this potentially prevents fragmentation. There will be several MeeGo versions, each like each other (kernel etc) but offer different UX (eg Smartphone vs Netbook) for obvious reasons. And all Apps will work on all versions.

So MeeGo is "potentially" the best OS available out there (truly, even against Win7) but it has many ways to go before it can compete with Android, and an eternity longer if it were to compete against Microsoft in the high-powered (laptops, desktops) devices sector.
With MeeGo its possible, you may only ever need to know two OS your entire life: a high-performance OS (eg Windows7) for high-powered devices and MeeGo for all other computers.

[ndi]

[...]substantial out of step 5 out of 5 even with the help of Intel.

The what? Maemo has been deviated from upgrading from 5 to 6, .deb, to a new monster, half-transitioned to RPM, half melded with Moblin, half chicken (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=giant%20half%20chicken%20half%20sq uirrel) half squirrel.

It takes more work to meld M5 to MeeGo ALPHA than it takes to make M6.

They are renaming constants. Because, you know, this is the kind of stuff you need to get out of your way before releasing an OS.

u do realise that this is an alpha release. Its like comparing batter to a baked cake relax. Start complaining when we have an actual official non beta, non alpha release.

M5 never exited Alpha, kid. Not will it ever. And if MeeGo will exit Alpha, or even Beta, it will be way, way after the device you own or buy with MeeGo 1.0 will die of shame.

It's incredibly easy to fix a broken gene. The problem is, the whole system must survive the transition. Humans aren't an extraordinary thing because we eat and go to the bathroom, but because all the stages we went through from cell to now are all viable life forms.

As well, if MeeGo will (would?) be great in 10 years matters not if it dies of a childhood disease. All mutations up to final must live, and if it can't digest users until it's 5.0, it will die of starvation.


Android is everything I like; its touch-based OS for underpowered devices, cross-compatible and multi-platform (x86 & ARM).

And that's a problem. The rate at which the OS is ported down, simplified, or built from the ground up is slower than how hardware progresses. I don't want an OS built for underpowered devices. I want an OS that can scale UP.

An OS that can run in low animation mode and in slide-everything mode. If you build it to eat half the power others eat, by the time of your adoption you'll be ugly and simplistic.

Portable tablets gain in power like nuts.
2005, 250 MHz, N770
2007, 330 MHz, N800
2007+, 400 MHz, N810
2009, 600 MHz, N900
2010, 1000 MHz, IPhone 4

Tell me, how long before an OS that moves fine on a device becomes too small?

I want an OS with potential. You know, until x86 hits.

So MeeGo is "potentially" the best OS available out there (truly, even against Win7)

Which is to say, Windows 7 is potentially the best OS out there, too. They all are. Potentially best gives me no new info, and ads no new trust not hope.

I'm not pointing this at you, just saying that optimism is better when has a base to it. No OS ever developed by Nokia ever fully matured. Partly because by the time they mature the hardware passed it by (Symbian) or they never mature by design (Maemo).

[bayernhan]

I think Nokia's marketing group know a thing or two more about selling phones and operating systems than you do. MeeGo will do okay for itself - while I feel the interface is boring right now, obviously each manufacturer is going to code up their own stuff to make it interesting and worthwhile.

Now, seems like nobody else called you out on this, so I will.

In which universe do you live that you can say 3 million odd units (talking about the N97 here) shipped amounts to a failure? You, sir, have no clue what you are talking about. 10 million 5800's sold.

If you believe the stats, it appears Nokia are shipping about 300 million handsets each year, give or take a handful of millions or so. I think their bank account is pretty healthy myself.


I am not talking about units shipped, I am talking about the design failure where the lenses of my n97 was scracthing constantly in every slide of the lense cover, and from what I know everyone I know who owns a n97 had the same issue.It is unacceptable for such a flagship phone to have a silly design mistake.Quality over quantity...

[bayernhan]

i hope so :D

[gerbick]

How do operators,chipset vendors and device vendors fit in your pronostics? They are relevant stakeholders, factors of success. How happy are they about Apple, Google etc and how could MeeGo make them more happy than these competitors?

These are the things that Nokia should already know and I think that they probably do know that stuff but need a helping hand in the areas that have been left out - namely Japan and North America.

But to answer for the North American crowd; it's rather important in some cases due to location about the carrier, the vendor (accessibility to retail)... the rest isn't about how happy people are with Apple, RIM or Android (Google, HTC, Motorola, Samsung)... but more or less how happy they are with the integration with the pieces of software they already use quite heavily.

The Nokia/Yahoo deal, MeeGo needs to talk that up. Millions of people use Yahoo Mail - imagine if they knew that a phone was coming with an OS that syncs their e-mail of their provider in a fashion that is... painfree and easy.

It's not about much more than that. If I can use the software that I use on my desktop(s) and continue that usage away from my computer on my phone(s)... that would be a good thing. I'm aware that's already in place; but I'm not your average user. I'm an established Maemo user.

But the average joe user in North America doesn't know much more than "I need access to my e-mail" - POP versus IMAP won't ever come up, they don't know what it is for the most part.

Carrier subsidies - it matters in North America. A lot. Not in Europe (as much), not in Asia (as much)... but North America? Until Nokia N-series is sold in more than just two stores (one is closing or closed, so I might be wrong here) and just not online... then the likelihood of buying a N-series phone blindly goes way down.

And stop bringing up Apple. People are happy with them because they were told to be happy. Sounds horrific, but that's closer to the truth than the people are probably willing to admit. I have an iPhone - have had them all, will be getting an iPhone 4 in less than a month. My company gives them to me. Do I like them? Not really.

But I can check a few things without firing up a browser - Google Analytics, stocks, e-mails, IM's et al. And receive regular updates for those apps. Skype's been updated 4 times on Apple iOS in the same amount of time that Skype has been updated twice on the Maemo platform. Fring has seen 4 major revisions since the release of Maemo, it's yet to show up on Maemo (as of June, I believe) and it's been updated thrice on Android (one is in beta now).

I know that MeeGo means "freedom" and "openness", but if it looks like a wide open plain with no trees, no rivers, just... a wide open space and not much more, **** running around in that freedom and wait for little pieces of stuff to come together. People have been in holding patterns, waiting for features on smartphones since 2006. We're tired of it... deliver a more solid experience upfront, or get immediately ignored. For that, see WebOS, OpenMoko. Solid offerings that lacked things people wanted in one form or another.

Again, your (Nokia) brick and mortar retail distribution is so damn lacking in North America and Japan. I don't want to drive 12 hours just for one store to get my hands on a $500+ phone that I might not like and if I return it, I will not get my full amount back due to restocking fees. Sell your stuff at Best Buy for goodness sake.

Not an easy question but just as relevant as good UI, good developer offering and good apps.

Giving developers proper tools, giving users the apps they want... it's as relevant as the above.

[etuoyo]

I think Nokia's marketing group know a thing or two more about selling phones and operating systems than you do. MeeGo will do okay for itself - while I feel the interface is boring right now, obviously each manufacturer is going to code up their own stuff to make it interesting and worthwhile.

Now, seems like nobody else called you out on this, so I will.

In which universe do you live that you can say 3 million odd units (talking about the N97 here) shipped amounts to a failure? You, sir, have no clue what you are talking about. 10 million 5800's sold.

If you believe the stats, it appears Nokia are shipping about 300 million handsets each year, give or take a handful of millions or so. I think their bank account is pretty healthy myself.

Not sure we can judge success simply by units sold. N97 was meant to take a huge chunk of the iphone market and failed to do so woefully. If BMW released a 5 series that happened to sell alot of units but was completely crushed in sales by E Class would you consider it a success even though it went from clear market leader to seriously lagging behind? On that basis it has to be labelled a failure. Also of that 3 million you mention how many are disappointed customers who will probably never buy another Nokia device or seriously think twice about getting one?

[tredlie]

What i find interesting/odd in this discussion is the focus on the OS. I am a Linux guy, so for me indeed it matters but likely not for the mass market. Here it takes two things:
1. a nice user interface. Here meego may be ok. I have not really looked into it but I presume I can live with it.
2. this is applications/applications/applications, about which nobody seems to talk. I dont a user interface, its applications that get the job done. And for the highend user there is a standard set, about which Nokia should by now have clue of what they need to look like: these are calendars,todo, and mailing, together with sync capability.
I would love to keep the skype/sms/mailintegration of the contacts in Maemo and have the lacking parts filled in (they just need to copy the capabilities from the symbian line, I am sure they have proper stuff there).

Meego as such is a kernel some middleware and 4 applications about which I have not heard a thing.

Am I missing something somewhere?

[tomster]

Not an easy question but just as relevant as good UI, good developer offering and good apps.

And there's a point to nail it to.

How the hell do you think you get good developers when the rules are changed quicker than the first lines of code are writen? Nokia's been warping through different OS's quicker than I could change my underwear. It's been from December 09 up till today that we saw or heard of Fremantle, Harmatten, Moblin, Meego and various versions of QT with more or less working SDKs available. But even if you did catch up with this rat-race Nokia wouldn't provide a simple online-shop to buy these apps from.

It's not just as good developers and a nice UI would do the trick. It's the whole infrastructure that has to be well thought of. And exactly this is where I doubt that Nokia got the whole picture right. Everything seems to be stuck in some sort of pre-alpha status. And it even might have been wiser not to release any screens or specs of Meego at such early stage with a half-baked OS.

As many of my fore-posters said: The confidence in Meego and it pulling things off big time is losing ground. Sad to admit it, but that's the way I see thing lately.

[Kangal]

I want an OS with potential. You know, until x86 hits.

Which is to say, Windows 7 is potentially the best OS out there, too. They all are. Potentially best gives me no new info, and ads no new trust not hope.

I'm not pointing this at you, just saying that optimism is better when has a base to it. No OS ever developed by Nokia ever fully matured. Partly because by the time they mature the hardware passed it by (Symbian) or they never mature by design (Maemo).

I see. But here's what people miss, they are looking at MeeGo the wrong way. I could say that glass is half empty: look that company makes no real smartphones although they sell the most mobiles worldwide and their software/hardware offerings are clearly behind, just look at their track record.

But here's a way to look the half full glass:
We have seen dramatic increase in mobile hardware in the last 2 years. If you asked someone (even a dev) 2 years ago if N64 would work on a phone they'd just laugh :D What MeeGo is doing is paving the way for tomorrow, not focussing on today. iOS and Android have basically reached their limits, they have either a lack of cross-compatability or a lack of an effecient software stack (java).

Just like how Apple came to be, they just did what others did (Apps, UI) in a better package and stole WinMobile's market ... MeeGo could do the same. It must use the weaknesses of the other platform to its advantages. Against Apple, it must show that MeeGo is sexy and what you need to buy (refer to Futurama episode) with great offerings and aggressive advertising.

It will be harder against Android, it must release something to the caliber of the Nexus One and show that Apps (like an emulator) really do run "faster" (than java).
Next it must also release another phone that's cheaper and weaker (like G1) and show that the same App also runs (not as fast though) regardless of the processor difference (ARM11 vs A8) and another MeeGo device on another platform (x86) that also supports the Apps.

Once they really polish the whole package (software/hardware), demonstate its advantages (against Android) and give it an equal sex-appeal it will sell. First Nokia, then other OEMs like LG, Samsung etc could enter the fray.
We may even find those first-gen netbooks (replace XP/Ubuntu) useful.

[ndi]

We have seen dramatic increase in mobile hardware in the last 2 years. If you asked someone (even a dev) 2 years ago if N64 would work on a phone they'd just laugh :D

Then with all due respect to the said dev, they are lacking perspective. Look at those speeds up there. With ARM being roughly one-on-one as computing power per MHz with x86, I dare say it's ready to be upgraded.

Sure x86 isn't power efficient, but many of us just want a full day out of the device, and by full day I mean 9 to 18, that's 9 hours. As for power, trust me, 600 MHz is nough to run XP if you forgo the eye candy. I have compact PCs that run XP on a Geode at 500 MHz and, while gaming isn't great, it fulfills its role as a viable PC, with full-on browsing, Office, minigames, installable software and an app base the size of China.

And if the fact that mobile phones (tablets, whatever, as long as they fit a pocket can can make calls) are only growing better isn't a mystery. Preparations are in order.

What MeeGo is doing is paving the way for tomorrow, not focussing on today.

What exactly are they paving? Portable Linux is Linux slimmed down, not the other way around. As power grows, it will be slimmed down even less. effectively reversing what MeeGo does. I can't see this future thing you speak of.

Just like how Apple came to be, they just did what others did (Apps, UI) in a better package and stole WinMobile's market ...

Apple came to be quite a while ago. If you mean iOS, then they had a few (huge) advantages:

a) iOS only runs on their devices, that is one device (at first) No drivers, no misc hardware, no scalable interface.

b) No baggage. Not backwards compatible, no app base or devel base to ruin, no expectations to break. At that time, it was a brand new rewrite. Nobody else has rewritten at this scale since. They are all rip-offs of other work.

c) New design. All other OSs are hereditary. They inherit strengths and weaknesses of previous OSs. Maemo is bound by Debian guidelines, with strength and weakness. WinMo was slimmed from Windows and was bound by it.

d) No disappointment, no expectations, no comparison. It Just Worked, and once people liked it, they started adding. MeeGo doesn't have the luxury to not fully implement bluetooth.

Against Apple, it must show that MeeGo is sexy

That's nice, but unattainable. You can't out-sexy Apple devices because they were built in reverse from style up.

Once they really polish the whole package (software/hardware), demonstate its advantages (against Android) and give it an equal sex-appeal it will sell.

Let's just say easier said than done. That's your plan, out-sexy the Apple, out-feature Android and out-support WinMo? If they could do ANY of that we wouldn't be having this discussion.

We may even find those first-gen netbooks (replace XP/Ubuntu) useful.

I have no idea what Ubuntu users will do, but there's no way in hell you can displace XP while offering no Office (easydebian is not MeeGo and OOo for Arm is no MS Office x86) , no commercial apps (all 4 of them), no app base (compared), an everchanging UI and an Alpha software. XP is closing on 10 years. If it's been writtten it either runs on XP or has a clone onto it.

I have no idea how anyone thinks this will work. If it would, Debian (since it's full) would be displacing XP (also full) and it's not really how it goes.

And finally, even of MeeGo has the magical fairy dust needed to push away Android, iOS (which is wishful thinking with their dedicated hardware base) and even WinMo, let's not forget that while MeeGo is pushed halfheartedly by Nokia, the rest are pushed full-heartedly by even bigger players. I doubt Nokia has the horsepower, let alone the fact that they seem to be conserving fuel and running several things at once.

[YoDude]

How do operators,chipset vendors and device vendors fit in your pronostics? They are relevant stakeholders, factors of success. How happy are they about Apple, Google etc and how could MeeGo make them more happy than these competitors?

Not an easy question but just as relevant as good UI, good developer offering and good apps.

Now that's scary. :eek:

One of the reasons the smartphone market was not as big as it could have been in the US earlier may have been because manufacturers were making US service providers happy. The service provider is the device vendor for most US customers.

Enter the iPhone and now any Android device and look over in the corner, grandma seems to have a smartphone too!

In the US this seemed to come about once Apple had a product that was compelling enough so that their terms could be dictated to the service provider in exchange for exclusivity. Google then created free services that the service providers customers want but for an exclusive period of time, are only available on the Android OS.

I really hope I am misreading the intent of your post, because it sounded like to me that MeeGo is being designed to give these service providers the ability to lock out selected services until additional fees are paid by the user.

WAP, J2ME, and MMS are examples that come to mind of that approach and they were all designed by "device vendors" to make their true customer, the service provider happy. :)

EDIT: I also just realized that you could be talking pure hardware and in that case new development could be stifled by the limitations of these existing OS's. That is, a new technology could wither on the vine if Apple or Google do not plan to support it.
In that case an OS that is modular and can be scaled up or down depending on a vendors needs would be a huge advantage.

[gerbick]

In the US this seemed to come about once Apple had a product that was compelling enough so that their terms could be dictated to the service provider in exchange for exclusivity. Google then created free services that the service providers customers want but for an exclusive period of time, are only available on the Android OS.

Then MeeGo needs to do the same. Be compelling enough to avoid having stuff ripped out of it.

I really hope I am misreading the intent of your post, because it sounded like to me that MeeGo is being designed to give these service providers the ability to lock out selected services until additional fees are paid by the user.

If this is true, then MeeGo will fail.

[YoDude]

Then MeeGo needs to do the same. Be compelling enough to avoid having stuff ripped out of it.



If this is true, then MeeGo will fail.

I'll copy over my edit to the post you quoted for continuity...

EDIT: I also just realized that you (qgil) could be talking pure hardware and in that case new development could be stifled by the limitations of these existing OS's. That is, a new technology could wither on the vine if Apple or Google do not plan to support it.
In that case an OS that is modular and can be scaled up or down depending on a vendors needs would be a huge advantage.

[gerbick]

Thanks. Didn't see your edit.

Call me odd, but I think they're just situating themselves to be a handheld/tablet distro that can accept a KDE/Gnome type of UI replacement scheme (think HTC Sense UI on top or/really replacing Android's UI) and go from there. If that's the case, that'll work just fine, will limit the fragmentation somewhat...

Regardless. I'll have to resort to patience and see how this will all play out. I don't think MeeGo will hit the gate running... Android didn't, WebOS didn't... Moblin didn't, Maemo didn't.

But a slow start might prove to be what they need to do for some hardware to fall right into place; namely CPU/GPU refinements (no telling what that really means... just that current hardware is too even across the board now).

Just treat as speculation. Nothing I said above it probably even close to the truth. Just thinking aloud.

[qgil]

Sorry, I thought my short post was clear but you read many other things.

You agree that MeeGo's success will be based not only on Nokia's steps but also on the involvement of sevedral device vendors and sedveral operators in several countries including the USA. This is what most of the posts of this thread imply.

Alright, for this to happen MeeGo needs to convince those device vendors and operators. Most of this thread discusses the user point of view, also the developer point of view. But what about the point of view of these few but very powerful players? Ask yourselves how happy are they with other platforms, how good are the MeeGo competitors for their businesses. And ask yourselves whether MeeGo has more or less chances to fit in their business strategies.

[Kangal]

Then with all due respect to the said dev, they are lacking perspective. Look at those speeds up there. With ARM being roughly one-on-one as computing power per MHz with x86, I dare say it's ready to be upgraded.

You failed to see that Cortex A8/A9 was not commercially available/in retail so it makes great sense. What we had was ARM11 and only upto 800MHZ speeds and partnered with GPU chips that gave something like 4M polygons/sec. So the computer your refering to is in comparison to the A8/A9 or is just a really really old (Pentium 2?) PC.

Sure x86 isn't power efficient, but many of us just want a full day out of the device, and by full day I mean 9 to 18, that's 9 hours. As for power, trust me, 600 MHz is nough to run XP if you forgo the eye candy. I have compact PCs that run XP on a Geode at 500 MHz and, while gaming isn't great, it fulfills its role as a viable PC, with full-on browsing, Office, minigames, installable software and an app base the size of China.

Actually x86 architecture has some "extras" that aren't necessary or used for mobile scale devices. Intel has made great improvements over the last 5 years. For instance, N450's are same/slightly better than the N270's but increase battery life from a previous 5hours to now 8hours average (6cell 5000mAh) on a netbook. My SU7300 runs Win7 smoothly and offers some gaming potential and I get 6hours of average use, just enough for an entire day. The new and upcoming Z-series brings a blimmer of hope (>99fps Quake3 reported), but I rather look forward to Dual core (28nm) 2GHz A9 with new PowerVR graphics (say SGX543MP8).

What exactly are they paving? Portable Linux is Linux slimmed down, not the other way around. As power grows, it will be slimmed down even less. effectively reversing what MeeGo does. I can't see this future thing you speak of.

Well Linux has a whole lot of legacy behind it. I havent heard that it would be a slimmed down Linux, only that it would be made to boot within the magical minute time and be light of its feet to work on lower-powered devices (ARM11, <1Ghz Celeron/Atom, RISC etc). I think we have made some great advances in CPU & GPU technology but these advances are actually old. For instance, Cortex A8 was probably designed several years ago and is only new to commercially. My point is that, somewhere this growth sprout will end and we will be using the current generation architecture for some more years until the next growth sprout. So the field will be to support MeeGo if maturity occurs and its resources (slimming down) may be put to use on other things such as the RISC architecture (one of the slowest evolving when compared to x86 and ARM). Just an example, the N64 emulators out there were optimized many times over the years and those efforts are the same reason you can have it working on a mobile device or fullspeed on the "slow" Atom processor.

That's nice, but unattainable. You can't out-sexy Apple devices because they were built in reverse from style up.
Can't out-sexy Apple? Impossible is Nothing. And there's no need to out-sexy, you just need to be on par with them but also have something they don't to attract customers/developers like cross-compatability.


Let's just say easier said than done. That's your plan, out-sexy the Apple, out-feature Android and out-support WinMo? If they could do ANY of that we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Always is easier said then done. But what you need is to come to par on the sexy (hardware & software attributes) and come to par with features (multiplatform cross-compatability) against Android. This ensures people will buy and adopt so it won't be a failure. But making it a great success (Borat!) will require one step further with OEM support, carrier support and probably something else special. Right now MeeGo has one thing extra to offer and that's native applications. Sure Android has NDK but even that is limited, to certain standards that its still half java-half native meaning the performance gain was not worth the economical effort.



I have no idea what Ubuntu users will do, but there's no way in hell you can displace XP while offering no Office (easydebian is not MeeGo and OOo for Arm is no MS Office x86) , no commercial apps (all 4 of them), no app base (compared), an everchanging UI and an Alpha software. XP is closing on 10 years. If it's been writtten it either runs on XP or has a clone onto it.
MeeGo is a brand new OS platform and I think the basics such as Office, Web browser, Media Player, File Manager will be supported. Again you don't need MS Office (x86) if you have a worthy alternative for instance OpenOffice (just an example I know that requires significant processing power). They've come public that an App base will be ready out-of-the-box be it based on the OEM or Intel's AppUp (which would probably be the primary MeeGo App base). Again the UI is not ever changing, infact its tightly locked and Apps must follow withing UI guidlines. The different versions of MeeGo will have the different UI, and I still think there would be enough resemblance between them later on.


And finally, even of MeeGo has the magical fairy dust needed to push away Android, iOS (which is wishful thinking with their dedicated hardware base) and even WinMo, let's not forget that while MeeGo is pushed halfheartedly by Nokia, the rest are pushed full-heartedly by even bigger players. I doubt Nokia has the horsepower, let alone the fact that they seem to be conserving fuel and running several things at once.

Yes I doubt it too, Google to Nokia is a bully to a nerd. Which is ever more important that they really put effort in. If they make MeeGo magical then combine it sexy-hardware of many forms (smartphones, handhelds, GPS, tablets, TVs, netbooks etc). Also Nokia is still #1 phone provider, and realistically HTC #1 smartphone provider, so 2011 will be the boxing-match and they need to come with big guns before other competitors rise (RIM, HPWebOS, WinCE6, WinPhone7).
Good Luck MeeGo, you will be needing it.


edit: As a consumer I really would settle for Froyo on decent hardware (Moto Milestone level) but as a nerd I look for a Mobile Console/Phone/UMPC device with MeeGo.

[Wichall]

UI looks like iPhone OS with a different theme....

I'll stick with Maemo.

[gerbick]

Sorry, I thought my short post was clear but you read many other things.

Miscommunication seems to be par for the course in these parts.

You agree that MeeGo's success will be based not only on Nokia's steps but also on the involvement of sevedral device vendors and sedveral operators in several countries including the USA. This is what most of the posts of this thread imply.

By "several" device vendors and "several" operators in several countries; do you mean that you're looking for which hardware manufacturer is unhappy with the status quo and can become a partner with Nokia?

Let's be honest. There's you, Intel and LG that's known right now. LG GW990 already canceled the only MeeGo confirmed device (http://www.gsmdome.com/lg/lg-gw990-meego-phone-gets-cancelled_15236) that's been shown mere days/weeks after it was announced. That looks worse than it probably is due to nothing else coming out and being shown beyond the handset UX - which runs on a device we don't have access to or the N900 - and that build we didn't expect much more than a developer's build.

But as it stands, let's think about running off what you do know. Most carriers are looking at ways to either lock a person in or keep them on their network by any means necessary - and that means either removing features (boo!) or subsidizing (in some cases, yay!) or by having compelling features that make folks want the phone something fierce.

Let's start there. What does MeeGo have that the average owner would want? Freedom? Pfft, most people are sheep. Linux? Pfft... most people don't care what's OS is running on their phone as long as it works. But let's think about it... why did Samsung bring out an Android phone? Don't they have Bada? What about Motorola? Didn't they invest into SavaJe? They did so because those OS's didn't shape up, congeal into a mainstream offering either fast enough (Bada is still coming, SavaJe is long dead) and they didn't deliver an UI experience that's scalable from the cheapest phone to the most expensive phones.

Now, approach them. Show them they can still deliver Android and MeeGo enabled phones. Let the sales dictate what they should do after the introduce a MeeGo phone. It worked for Android and Motorola. From Droid, to Droid X, to upcoming Droid 2.

Alright, for this to happen MeeGo needs to convince those device vendors and operators. Most of this thread discusses the user point of view, also the developer point of view. But what about the point of view of these few but very powerful players? Ask yourselves how happy are they with other platforms, how good are the MeeGo competitors for their businesses. And ask yourselves whether MeeGo has more or less chances to fit in their business strategies.

Until you can say without a fact that you will be able to fit better into the corporate world - FULL Exchange support and provisioning among other features - then what will you offer them instead? I mean, seriously... from your perspective what do you think you guys need to do? We're mainly developers and fans here. Tell us more than we know at the moment and a large percentage of these folks will follow. If you need to ask us about what needs to be done to gather more information about what your vector of attack should be... what are you considering?

[ndi]

You failed to see that Cortex A8/A9 was not commercially available/in retail so it makes great sense.

I did not. Nor did I mean they were available, but that it would have been obvious that they would become available soon. I see no reason 2 years ago to not foresee today's hardware today. I, for example, foresee 1.5 GHz for 2011. They already exist, but are not available. With OSs becoming increasingly clunky, it's bound to go up.

Let's not forget N900 has a 1GHz CPU, throttled down for thermal and live expectancy reasons.

but increase battery life from a previous 5hours to now 8hours average (6cell 5000mAh) on a netbook.

Which is, IMO, enough. Let's not forget N900 doesn't have a full day autonomy. When used, it expends its useful battery lifetime (starts at 80% with overnight drop and ends at about 30%, as I want to make calls until the night).

but I rather look forward to Dual core (28nm) 2GHz A9 with new PowerVR graphics (say SGX543MP8).

I rather look forward to that, too :)

My point is that, somewhere this growth sprout will end and we will be using the current generation architecture for some more years until the next growth sprout.

OMAP3430 was demoed in Feb 2007. I'm thinking end of sprout rather than beginning.

Always is easier said then done. But what you need is to come to par on the sexy (hardware & software attributes) and come to par with features (multiplatform cross-compatability) against Android. This ensures people will buy and adopt

This may work for you. And me, it would work for me too. But this is a thread about MeeGo making it, and by making it it has to do more than cause a few nerds to go wild. It needs to sell en-masse, and it will never outshine Apple not because it's not as sleek or as nice, but because people will keep upholding IP4 as the pinnacle of design as a matter of principle and history.

Also, IP4 is quite simplistic. That's their key, simplistic and elegant. Be more simplistic and you look like stone age displaced.

To beat the fruit you need not one device, you need a name to rival Apple in design, and Nokia couldn't do this in its glory years. Frankly, it still can't. They're ugly. They have their charm and their Nokia look, but the devices themselves are ugly.

E.g., N900 is thick and bulky. Also, the plastic kickstand and cam cover makes it look like a copy. I like bulky because I want the keyboard and battery+keyboard+screen don't get much thinner. I love it, as bulky as it is. But let's not kid ourselves. Beauty contest it's not. And same goes for UI.

MeeGo is a brand new OS platform and I think the basics such as Office, Web browser, Media Player, File Manager will be supported.

Yes, when? Maemo can't edit a spreadsheet. And it's not a new affliction, either.

Yes I doubt it too, Google to Nokia is a bully to a nerd. Which is ever more important that they really put effort in. If they make MeeGo magical then combine it sexy-hardware of many forms (smartphones, handhelds, GPS, tablets, TVs, netbooks etc). Also Nokia is still #1 phone provider, and realistically HTC #1 smartphone provider, so 2011 will be the boxing-match and they need to come with big guns before other competitors rise (RIM, HPWebOS, WinCE6, WinPhone7).
Good Luck MeeGo, you will be needing it.

IMO, an optimistic view. I don't see MeeGo in any boxing matches, unless you count Muhammad Ali vs The Nerd a match.

You see MeeGo spreading like the plague of small devices, but Maemo had years and has spread to precisely what had no choice. I'm closer to seeing my next TV run iOS than MeeGo. Actually, my next TV will probably run a slim Linux, that's open, free, non-animated and fast. Actually, that's what my TV runs now, if you believe the about box.

My problem is that I'm not all that optimistic even of MeeGo would be magical. And, let's face it, thus far Nokia has managed to get less out of OSs this far, not more.

To be frank. I'm hoping to skip this whole puberty of mobile platforms and by the time I upgrade N900 I'd get an x86 and install whatever I want. Man that'd be sweet.

[Dave999]

well, when it comes to meego and vendors. There is a lot of vendors, But few with real power and customer base. If you look at the market. The fact that there is almost as many OS as vendors, Meego must be good enough to convince some of the vendors without "its own OS" to move to meego.

Meego will work on other sorts devices with alot of vendors, However, from my part of view, noone choose a phone after what software you have in your tv or car(will be several years before that software here is more importent than the phone).

So again, I'm looking forward to see some real vendors join meego. As you can see I'm sceptical. But really hope meego will be a success.

[quipper8]

as far as hardware vendors go, I think meego could be attractive to all the same ones that android is attractive to now, motorola, samsung, LG, HTC

they will take meego core and slap on some chrome, decals, and a few value addedd integrated apps and call it meegoblur or meegosense ui, etc. I think these vendors will also appreciate a little more the ease of adaptation to hardware vs android. I think winmo probably has the easiest hardware adaptation.

as for the carrier situation in the US, what a horrible situation. CDMA probably will not die for at least 2 more years as everyone transitions to LTE hopefully, so I don't think Nokia is going to go after the locked in Sprint/Verizon market and they are #1 and #3or4 in US subscribers. perhaps some of the other manufacturers might do cdma hardware though so as long as meego spreads wide and Nokia sticks to its unlocked guns, I will be happy.

Where intel fits in this, i don't know. Either tablets or other direct powered devices(car nav entertainment, TV) or they have a great mobile chip in the works. IMO intel would be wise to get a serious chip out there with all the requisite mobile feature set. I have got to believe they are working on it. If they can make a winner, they will blow ARM out of the way with their scale.

worldwide if you combine the scale of intel+nokia+(some other large device manufacturer like samsung or LG)

I think the future for meego is good. they are taking the track of android which is blowing by iOS as we speak, only more open and more adaptable.

[TheLongshot]

they will take meego core and slap on some chrome, decals, and a few value addedd integrated apps and call it meegoblur or meegosense ui, etc. I think these vendors will also appreciate a little more the ease of adaptation to hardware vs android. I think winmo probably has the easiest hardware adaptation.

I think this is the place where Meego could potentially make inroads. Android has turned out to be a difficult OS to customize. If a vendor wants to make their own customizations (Motoblur, Garminfone for example) they end up behind the curve and it makes it hard to sell. Customers also get frustrated that they can't get the latest updates.

Now, whether Meego can meet that dream is a question, but it does seem that it is going to a place where the UX can be customized and separated from the lower layer that does the heavy lifting.

[Dave999]

Quipper8...If that come true. Meego would be a success, apps and services would grow fast and the competition within "different" meego would gain the customers as well as the vendors in the same way compatition against other os does.

[quipper8]

Quipper8...If that come true. Meego would be a success, apps and services would grow fast and the competition within "different" meego would gain the customers as well as the vendors in the same way compatition against other os does.

and with a qt ui framework somewhat separate from meego-core they will be able to reduce fragmentation across device types and across vendors. Of course there will still be some, but hopefully less than android.

Customers are starting to get unsettled about the android fragmentation situation. Same manufacturer they bought a phone with 1.6 is releasing a phone with 2.1 and yet 2.2 is out. Crazy situation.

it remains to be seen whether all of this wil happen, but I think it is a good plan and I think it is possible, just comes down to execution, timing, and luck

[Texrat]

This is very general but it's what I see as necessary: http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2010/07/06/the-mobile-arms-race/

[nilchak]

This is very general but it's what I see as necessary: http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2010/07/06/the-mobile-arms-race/

Did i get the idea that beter power consumption and long lasting battery will be the main differentiator in the smartphone mobile space ?

Either I read it wrong, or your usual analytical process simply petered out too soon at the battery level Texrat.

The iPhone has shown to some extent that many people (if not most) learn to live with short battery life. While that is certainly not where mfrs want to go - and a longer battery will be a differentiator - I don't think that will be a BIG differentiator.

The real difference must be in how well a service the phone provides and how well it integrates the different aspects of mobile computing. Integration is the key. Do I know what that well integrated process looks like - no idea at all. Thats where I am looking for to these companies to come out with a brilliant or well executed idea.

[bayernhan]

If meego with intel cpu is adapted to run Framework 3.0/x86 applicitations, This will make it much more easy for devs to quickly learn and make apps plus the best mobile os

[chfyfx]

I think Meego is going to do well. There is no question.
1. It is the right direction - mobile computing
2. It is new. It is the opposite of symbian. It is for the future hardware and integration of the hardware.
3. It is built for touch. We all know the story about symbian, and the experience between E71 and N97. It is hard to convert a non touch OS to a touch OS. Symbian is probably the best OS, but worse for touch screen.
4. Maemo/Meego is actually liked by Eldar. This means everyone has a chance to like it, even non Nokia supporters. I think it is hard to have iphone people to like a Nokia OS. This is very important and it is the proof that meego has something different yet also something better.

The current UI is bad, especially when comparing to Windows Phone 7 software, simply heaven and hell. However, it is the right direction, and it is still better than the first iOS. The right direction is above everything.

Eldar also said that the actual Nokia version of Meego is better than the tablet version. For me, Maemo 5 is not there yet, but so very close to the best mobile OS. All nokia needs to do is make a more complete version of Maemo into Meego, together with Qt, it will be the best. Let's wait and see.

[rainmaster]

http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/MeeGo-doing-Java-faster-than-Android-2.2-Nokia-rejoices-article-a_12322.htmlMeeGo seems quite promising already :) check this

[lpotter]

I'm starting to think that MeeGo, even with Qt will not do well. My reasoning? The similar Linux based WebOS even had a better documented SDK and tools and a flashier UI and seems to be treated like a second class citizen.

I want be wrong, willing to see how things play out.

better API docs than Qt?

http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:SDK

http://doc.trolltech.com/

[Kangal]

http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/MeeGo-doing-Java-faster-than-Android-2.2-Nokia-rejoices-article-a_12322.htmlMeeGo seems quite promising already :) check this

One thing that article mentions;
the Sunspider Java benchmark scores better than Nexus One (Froyo), but is this the doing of Intel's Z600 or "better" software from MeeGo or both?

Actually that question is very very easily and conclusively answerable. The Aava mobile was designed for the Android platform and later considered adding MeeGo to the equation, the 2.2AOSP could be compiled (like 2.1 was) and the same test could be run to see what the effect each OS has on java performance.

Though this benchmark would be quite useless, just think about it.

[Diph]

better API docs than Qt?

http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:SDK

http://doc.trolltech.com/
I think the Qt API is the best I've used.