View Full Version : What Will Make MeeGo Succeed
railroadmaster
2010-08-09, 22:40
What will make MeeGo be adopted be successful in the smartphone market where the Nokia n900 wasn't. What will make average smartphone users adopt Meego not just users who want to tinker there device. Here is a series of open ended questions any answer is welcome.
There are already so many platforms out there. Many people would say oh MeeGo is just another Linux based platform. Why would developers want to develop for MeeGo?
What killer feature does MeeGo have that will make people want to use it. For example Android has integration with Google services, iPhone has Apple's ecosystem, Webos has its superb multitasking and notifications, and Blackberry has excellent email and messaging services.
Why would OEMS want to adopt MeeGo?
Why would network operators want to sell phones using
MeeGo?
Does MeeGo really have a future?
Will MeeGo have basic applications such as facebook, foursquare, Skype, twitter, Adobe Flash etc?
So just some simple questions. Feel free to answer.
1. developers that already develop for linux will find it interesting,
2. we'll see, for now - large community sick off apple's ecosystem (?), new kid on the block, sick of giving your data to google, curiosity ?
3. corporate strategy, marketing, intel, nokia,
4. because they want to 'sell' thus gain profit,
5. we will know in few years...
railroadmaster
2010-08-09, 22:49
1. developers that already develop for linux will find it interesting,
2. we'll see, for now - large community sick off apple's ecosystem (?), new kid on the block, sick of giving your data to google, curiosity ?
3. corporate strategy, marketing, intel, nokia,
4. because they want to 'sell' thus gain profit,
5. we will know in few years...
Well thanks keep the answers coming.
attila77
2010-08-09, 23:03
There are already so many platforms out there. Why would developers want to develop for MeeGo?
People will not develop for MeeGo - they will develop for Qt. MeeGo is just the best vehicle for platforms on high-end devices. It's not MeeGo for MeeGo's sake. Via Qt, developers can target hundreds of millions of users, MeeGo ones will just be the coolest ones :)
What killer feature does MeeGo have that will make people want to use it. For example Android has integration with Google services, iPhone has Apple's ecosystem, Webos has its superb multitasking and notifications, and Blackberry has excellent email and messaging services.
One major difference is that MeeGo is not a smartphone OS. It is a mobile OS, for everything from mobile phones through cars to netbooks, giving a potential for a vastly larger ecosystem. All competing platforms OTOH are islands, with their own very specific technologies and walled gardens, with minimum spread to non-phone form factors. On top of that, MeeGo IS continuing the computer-in-your-hand paradigm (hopefully better executed than some aspects of earlier Maemos :) ). You wrote what current OSes are known for, but that doesn't mean a new guy can't best them at their own game, i.e. offer better multitasking than webOS, grow a bigger ecosystem of their own, etc.
Why would OEMS want to adopt MeeGo?
This is probably the biggest advantage, though - MeeGo is the only OS that is (when fully rolled out) not controlled by a single company and can be applied to ANY mobile device, no royalties or strings attached like in the case of Google. OEMs were mighty angry when the Nexus came out because that hurt their strategies badly - nobody complained publicly though, as you don't want to get the top dog angry.
Why would network operators want to sell phones using
MeeGo?
This is more a vendor question - they will sell whatever popular phone a vendor they have a good deal with offers. No OS has an advantage in that sense.
Does MeeGo really have a future?
The strategy is there, it's still way too early to tell if it will play out. Considering it's the most open OS on offer today, I sure hope it does :)
Will MeeGo have basic applications such as facebook, foursquare, Skype, twitter, etc?
No, but probably not it in the sense you ask. MeeGo is an OS foremost and not the end product most people will actually use, it's like asking will Windows have facebook or twitter ? It's almost certain some vendor implementations will include all that, but it's not a MeeGo question per se.
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 00:14
Well keep the answers coming I'm liking what I see.
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 00:18
Well lets hope MeeGo doesn't fail like WebOs.
Russianhaxor
2010-08-10, 00:46
Support and constant updates from Nokia. Marketing. Developer Support.
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 01:03
Support and constant updates from Nokia. Marketing. Developer Support.
How do we know Nokia's support will be any better than Htc's or Motorola's.
H3llb0und
2010-08-10, 01:09
Nokia not stopping development and support just 8 months after release would be a good start.
Crashdamage
2010-08-10, 01:20
How do we know Nokia's support will be any better than Htc's or Motorola's.
We don't. But because Meego is an open source OS hosted by the Linux Foundation and so not dependent on any one company, it will matter much less.
Devices, devices, devices.
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 01:28
Devices, devices, devices.
OEMS need to manufacture devices that people want and market them. Thens apps people want need to be able to run on these devices.
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 01:33
Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers!!
...Thens apps people want need to be able to run on these devices.
With Qt, that should be no problem.
One N900 does not a platform make...
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 01:42
With Qt, that should be no problem.
One N900 does not a platform make...
Even with qt that might be a problem. Of course with any platform it needs to users for developers to make applications for a platform. Whether MeeGo has qt doesn't change that fact.
Even with qt that might be a problem. Of course with any platform it needs to users for developers to make applications for a platform. Whether MeeGo has qt doesn't change that fact.
I'm not sure I'm getting your point. If it is that developers are important, then I agree. But I still feel that the bottleneck is availability of devices that run the OS.
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 01:49
I'm not sure I'm getting your point. If it is that developers are important, then I agree. But I still feel that the bottleneck is availability of devices that run the OS.
My point is no matter how many devices out there or how good qt is people need to actually own devices running MeeGo in order for developers to create applications.
...no matter how many devices out there ...
... people need to actually own devices running MeeGo...
If by "out there" you mean "in the hands of people", then the miscommunication problem is not on my end. If people need to own MeeGo devices then it does matter whether they do, and they can only own devices which are available. Or did you mean something else?
I am sorry, I don't mean to offend you, I am just puzzled. Maybe we should post slower :D
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 02:02
If by "out there" you mean "in the hands of people", then the miscommunication problem is not on my end. If people need to own MeeGo devices then it does matter whether they do, and they can only own devices which are available. Or did you mean something else?
I am sorry, I don't mean to offend you, I am just puzzled. Maybe we should post slower :D
I mean devices need to be in the hands of people for developers to create applications for MeeGo. You can put a bunch devices on the market but unless people buy it then it is meaningless for those devices to be on the market. Essentially MeeGo needs to have a good user base before we start seeing applications.
...Essentially MeeGo needs to have a good user base before we start seeing applications.
Gotcha :)
Well, I see no reason why this should not happen... The only reason people aren't buying MeeGo phones, tablets, you name it, is well, because no one is selling them yet :)
So we're back to
devices, Devices, DEVICES!
:cool:
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 02:17
Gotcha :)
Well, I see no reason why this should not happen... The only reason people aren't buying MeeGo phones, tablets, you name it, is well, because no one is selling them yet :)
So we're back to
devices, Devices, DEVICES!
:cool:
Having a bunch of devices on the market doesn't mean that people will use them :rolleyes:.
bandario
2010-08-10, 02:27
Most of this argument is null IMHO.
What we are all talking about is almost akin to limiting software or format proprietary, which has killed many good devices over the last 30 years. Sony shot themselves in the balls with the minidisc and this kind of closed thinking is almost exactly the same thing.
What really needs to be the focus (again, only my opinion) is a variety of quality handsets assembled from quality materials which are seen as computers rather than a 'nokia phone' and 'apple/iphone' an 'android phone' or a 'HTC phone'.
I would have serious hesitations purchasing a device in the near future which does not allow me to choose if I would like to run MeeGO, Android, Windowsphone7 or all 3 and provide a reasonable amount of storage space to do so.
And I am not talking about having to hack and slash at the thing and wait months for community developer projects, I am talking out of the box support for whatever operating system you would like to install, just like on any PC.
Trying to limit competition through the use of heavy marketing and a 2 year captive audience cycle is so counter productive it isn't even funny.
Why are we so prepared to accept the free market and embrace competition on the surface, but so afraid to let the power of these forces work towards better outcomes for all users?
Clarification: Mobile manufacturers need to concentrate on producing the BEST HARDWARE in all regards from look and feel to raw power, battery life, input/output quality and longevity whilst leaving hardware and software documentation completely accessible to both in house and homebrew/ commercial developers.
I know there are problems with DRM content and people getting paid with this sort of model but I would rather see these issues addressed directly than watch another doomed push by nokia still barking up a 10 year old business model tree. In my opinion they are still one of the best mobile manufacturers in the world as far as hardware quality and input/output quality goes, but for ****s sake get it together with the delivery.
maxximuscool
2010-08-10, 02:44
To make MeeGo Suceed the company has to have a vast amount of free good apps and good app store. App store is a killer feature for Apple Iphone at the moment. Google Android app store is nowhere near it's peak as the Apple app store.
So if Nokia and Intel wants to see MeeGo a success then they will have to start thinking about App store and connection with big app developer companies.
No app = No future!
Maemo 5 No apps => No big future! =>Not many sold => Abandoned by Nokia !
1. Devices
2. Users
3. Developers
4. Applications
5. Goto [1]
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 05:02
1. Devices
2. Users
3. Developers
4. Applications
5. Goto [1]
I think your right on target.
Nokia sticking to MeeGo for more than one iteration and dropping the notion that each iteration of the OS means a new phone purchase.
Third party support and getting Ovi in shape at launch.
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 05:05
With lots of devices and a good amount of support from Nokia it shouldn't do too horribly in the marketplace. The reason why WebOs failed lack of compelling hardware, lack of applications, poor marketing, and lack of network operator interest. If MeeGo manages to avoid all of those things it will succeed.
railroadmaster
2010-08-10, 05:10
Nokia sticking to MeeGo for more than one iteration and dropping the notion that each iteration of the OS means a new phone purchase.
Third party support and getting Ovi in shape at launch.
Essentially Nokia needs to get there **** together.
Essentially Nokia needs to get there **** together.
Well.... yes and no. They already manufacturer world class phones - in terms in build and quality - but they need to get the software and UI/UX to a point where it's a good balance of "hacker" and "consumer"... Maemo 5 still hands down was the step in a right direction after looking at Maemo 4.1 (Diablo) and so forth. I mean, seriously... even I can admit that Maemo 5 is leaps and bounds above Maemo 4.1.
But to be honest, the biggest problem(s) for Nokia is their perception in a few markets; namely Japan and North America. Their culture goes great in Europe, it's understood there. But here? Not so much. It's much like if Willcom were sold outside of Japan.
I don't think that Nokia needs to get their **** together. They just need to get their message coherent and not based on what's coming out new, but supporting what's already out better.
Just my opinion.
You're already holding the first MeeGo-compatible phone in your hands: the N900 with PR 1.2. It is not MeeGo OS yet, but it can be used to develop MeeGo-compatible applications.
Try beating Apple and Google’s silver tongue in their image-building game, going to be difficult though.
Win the opinion leaders’ heart.
They shouldn’t be too defensive. Less talk, and deliver products faster after announcement. Leave the image that they’re ruled by corporate businessmen lustful for money and think every technical problem can be handled with sweet talk. Words are cheap.
Instead, try starting image of company ruled by altruistic young generation engineers who prefer personal growth, future and self-discovery while getting profit as a bonus, instead of the other way around.
They’re friends, good guys, anti-establishment. :D
GIve new toy quick and give better price/value (e.g: longer software update support).
attila77
2010-08-10, 11:30
I would have serious hesitations purchasing a device in the near future which does not allow me to choose if I would like to run MeeGO, Android, Windowsphone7 or all 3 and provide a reasonable amount of storage space to do so.
As much as I hate to admit this is not realistic. Even if embedded industry practices regarding drivers changed overnight, the breakneck pace of mobile development makes this unfeasible. Ten years ago we were playing Counterstrike on Pentium 4s in 1024x768. Now we have Core i3/5/7s, HD and Modern Warfare or Starcraft 2 - significantly stronger, but not OMG differences. Do you know what mobile gaming meant 10 years ago ? Snake II, on a 96x64 green mono display.
So in mobile space you have almost dog years and it overperforms Moore's law by a long shot. Imagine if Microsoft did a major windows version EVERY year and you had processor power doubling in less than 12 months. That makes cross-platform HW compatibility and support a nightmare.
techngro
2010-08-10, 11:56
People will not develop for MeeGo - they will develop for Qt. MeeGo is just the best vehicle for platforms on high-end devices. It's not MeeGo for MeeGo's sake. Via Qt, developers can target hundreds of millions of users, MeeGo ones will just be the coolest ones :)
In the immortal words of Sir Paul...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
He wrote that song just for you, my friend.
Iphone is big and all, but Android is really something that can eat pretty much all of the empty space from MeeGo before it really even starts.
Key points for the normal users IMO would be:
- Nicely executed multitasking. This is something that makes me scratch my head coming from N900 and using my Galaxy S(Android) weird multitasking that feels like something from 10 years back with the task killers and all. If MeeGo handheld UX ever comes something it could be one the special things that keep people using MeeGo.
- Make the MeeGo handheld UX, netbook UX and tablet UX a one big "family"(gotta get them all). Make syncing between these intuitive and effortless.
What Android got now is really a nice phone OS, but example MeeGo tablet UX kills the current Android one. Thought we have yet to see Android 3.0 and that might change things.
- Make it look good. At least Nokia's Harmattan/MeeGo seems to be doing this. Tablet UX looks brilliant already. This is again one of those things that helps hugely on the more than important initial push of MeeGo.
- Great hw. MeeGo isn't of course all about Nokia, but Nokia is still crucial on the handheld UX side. Since OPK came in charge in Nokia with his service talks the hw on Nokia phones have gone from amazing to bad.
Services are the future no doubt, but people at least for now buy hw, OS and services are something that makes them stay on that brand or OS after they have bought the device. More buyers/users and we will see more steps taken on the service side too.
- Apps. That's a no brainer so i leave it there.
In the immortal words of John Lennon
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
He wrote that song just for you, my friend.
FIFY
(the kids of today!)
In the immortal words of Sir Paul...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
He wrote that song just for you, my friend.
Ok that was a bit odd..? And those lyrics are by Lennon, bro. 8)
What MeeGo needs to succeed:
* It must attain an air of being a long-term and supported platform.
* Supported in terms of: updates, applications
* Attractive devices that serve many needs.
And here I'm assuming we're talking mostly about the Mobile OS version of MeeGo.
Andrew_b
2010-08-10, 12:46
To succeed, MeeGo needs top notch PR and marketing for both the OS and any devices running it. That's all.
You spend more money on advertising than you do on R&D. It doesn't matter how good anything is, consumers just need to feel good about themselves. You tell them your product is fantastic, you tell them they are smart if they buy it. You show them how attractive and smart all the people who own your product are. You don't talk about competing products, there are no competing products. Your product is unique. You turn every owner of your product into a salesperson for your product.
Why would developers want to develop for MeeGo?
Why are there so many apps for an exotic environment such as iPhone? Because developers can make money from it. I don't know how it has been done in Android, but as the world leader of advertisement, I guess Google has put some thought into it.
What killer feature does MeeGo have that will make people want to use it.
I can't think of any. Maybe if my car and phone would both be MeeGo and there was some sort of integration, but what good would that do? My car already has an iPod dock and USB, the handsfree works via Bluetooth on any kind of phone. It doesn't have an integrated GPS navigation, but if it did, what kind of cell phone integration would it benefit from except for online access via bluetooth?
Why would OEMS want to adopt MeeGo?
I can't see a reason for cell phone manufacturers. For other devices, perhaps if the price, customizability, hardware requirements etc are fine. But then again, Linux is already free. I guess android is equally fit for that and that WP7 will bring MS back into the game.
Why would network operators want to sell phones using
MeeGo?
If it is interesting to the masses and can be efficiently operator locked.
Does MeeGo really have a future?
I have hard time believing that. Why not just any Linux. Take a look at Asus EEE Pc. It's hardly larger than a cell phone, it has 1.6ghz cpu, bigger display, runs normal linux distros and gets 3-7h of battery life. My guess is that these devices are getting powerful enough to require little more than a customized gui on top of a desktop OS.
Will MeeGo have basic applications such as facebook, foursquare, Skype, twitter, Adobe Flash etc?
Of course.
imperiallight
2010-08-10, 12:53
It's much like if Willcom were sold outside of Japan.
They had their own UMPC phone, the d4:
http://www.pocketables.net/2008/09/willcom-d4-ver.html
I would have got one if it was GSM!
As much as I hate to admit this is not realistic. Even if embedded industry practices regarding drivers changed overnight, the breakneck pace of mobile development makes this unfeasible. Ten years ago we were playing Counterstrike on Pentium 4s in 1024x768. Now we have Core i3/5/7s, HD and Modern Warfare or Starcraft 2 - significantly stronger, but not OMG differences. Do you know what mobile gaming meant 10 years ago ? Snake II, on a 96x64 green mono display.
So in mobile space you have almost dog years and it overperforms Moore's law by a long shot. Imagine if Microsoft did a major windows version EVERY year and you had processor power doubling in less than 12 months. That makes cross-platform HW compatibility and support a nightmare.
I think, in another article... the OEM is also avoiding falling in the same pitfall as in the desktop, hardware become commoditized and they have to slash profit to survive competing with each others as the top line hardware specs are drawn.
Allowing the users to switch from one OS to another means releasing the obsolescence control to users and the OS makers.
Besides, even if the hardware maker does, with AppStore, the OS has become different from desktop OS like Windows, Mac or Linux. The OS maker also had a stake on locking peoples to their platform because money now flows not from selling OS itself but commission from selling apps.
And maybe from monitoring behaviour of the users.
Making peoples jumps ship easily doesn't sound feasible on their side.
my thoughts...
sexy end devices. the volume mover is in the consumer space and these people dont care what os is on the phone. if the entire experience of using and owning a meego device is sexy, people will buy. buying a device is a statment about yourself. are you cool? are you hip? are you popular? are you rich? are you the only guy in town with the coolest phone?
it's when you whip the device out and don't feel shy about showing it off.
then you have the geeks who know what they want but there aren't enough of such buyers to make a difference. a lot of iphone users used to be feature phone users and the iphone was/is their first smartphone device. a geek would find the iphone fascinating for about 15 minutes as an end user ...unless u offer him/her a green xterm session. :)
just my 2 cents...
btw, how does nokia or intel make money out of meego if it is open sourced with no licensing fee? i dont get that operating model.
is ovi the only repository for meego apps to make money? and if so, how would nokia or intel lock this? somehow it doesn't sound correct...
Gundogan
2010-08-10, 15:29
Devices with MeeGo would be a start ye. Would be cool if Intel would release like a 'Nexus One'-like phone to promote MeeGo and even their Moorestown hardware.
An AAVA mobile (http://www.aavamobile.com/specs.php) for example running MeeGo with an Intel stamp on it could sell well imo. And ofc you have the N9 series from Nokia as wel (with hopefully better marketing than the N900). Those 2 could give MeeGo a nice start.
fatalsaint
2010-08-10, 15:33
btw, how does nokia or intel make money out of meego if it is open sourced with no licensing fee? i dont get that operating model.
Intel and Nokia are both notoriously known for their hardware... their software/os.. not so much.
So Intel and Nokia are not going to get money directly from MeeGo.. what they'll get money from is releasing hardware that is running MeeGo. Now, motorola, samsung, whatever could decide one day to give a MeeGo device a try and go grab MeeGo, make some drivers for it, and put it on a phone and Intel and Nokia won't see a dime from that.
From Intel and Nokia's perspective.. they have a hand in MeeGo so they can make some decisions regarding how it's managed (something they couldn't do if they went the Android Route).. and with making it truly open they have the possibility of dipping into thousands of experiences Linux dev's beyond their own small pool.
Somewhat like Dell selling computers with Ubuntu on it... Dell doesn't get any money from Ubuntu - and Ubuntu didn't get any money from Dell - but Dell got its money from it's hardware, and Ubuntu gets free advertising and broader user base (because it was cheaper when they (customers) bought it than the windows counterpart). The only difference in this case, would be that Nokia and Intel have direct say in MeeGo, Dell doesn't have the same for Ubuntu.
bandario
2010-08-11, 01:11
As much as I hate to admit this is not realistic. Even if embedded industry practices regarding drivers changed overnight, the breakneck pace of mobile development makes this unfeasible. Ten years ago we were playing Counterstrike on Pentium 4s in 1024x768. Now we have Core i3/5/7s, HD and Modern Warfare or Starcraft 2 - significantly stronger, but not OMG differences. Do you know what mobile gaming meant 10 years ago ? Snake II, on a 96x64 green mono display.
So in mobile space you have almost dog years and it overperforms Moore's law by a long shot. Imagine if Microsoft did a major windows version EVERY year and you had processor power doubling in less than 12 months. That makes cross-platform HW compatibility and support a nightmare.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps not realistic right now but as you said, the pace of development is frantic.
Give it two years or so and I think the Chinese will force the hand of the major western players.
If you upgrade the hardware and storage on something like this and add 3G capability it would sell volumes. It already is selling volumes and it is just an open tablet that needs memory cards for storage.
(If link is parsed, google SmartQ V7 linux, android, winCE)
http://mp4nation.net/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_27&products_id=364&zenid=455b23e7ad3e3946343dc0777e30279e
I have owned a no-brand chinese windows mobile device with GPS and TV tuner before and it was fairly impressive, especially for $200AUD.
This was more than 2 years ago and the west is only just coming close to catching up.
Once you take the headache of a badly translated custom OS out of the equation you are just dealing with hardware + platform.
Exciting times.
One of the main reasons I bought an N900 was the number of different operating environments in the works.
Russianhaxor
2010-08-11, 01:20
How do we know Nokia's support will be any better than Htc's or Motorola's.
If they want it to be SUCCESSFUL, it has to be. They have to show that there is a reason to switch to Nokia. Otherwise, they're just maintaining the status quo and people will be given no more reason to switch. ;)
...
Allowing the users to switch from one OS to another means releasing the obsolescence control to users and the OS makers.
...
Making peoples jumps ship easily doesn't sound feasible on their side.
That is exactly why users should refuse to buy into schemes that lock them in. Spend your money supporting those who give you most choice. Root for the underdog to prevent monopolies.
railroadmaster
2010-08-11, 03:46
If they want it to be SUCCESSFUL, it has to be. They have to show that there is a reason to switch to Nokia. Otherwise, they're just maintaining the status quo and people will be given no more reason to switch. ;)
Knowing Nokia's track record it will be worse than HTC, Motorola, or Samsung.
That is exactly why users should refuse to buy into schemes that lock them in. Spend your money supporting those who give you most choice. Root for the underdog to prevent monopolies.
Problem is, there’s also the now-and-here requirement.
Take example, I want to buy PC and want to use Photoshop, but I don’t want to use Windows. Yes, there’s Gimp and other alternative, but assume nobody write the software yet. Does that means I had to bear for years waiting for someone to think it worth the trouble writing that image editor. Imagine if the need is professional.
For now, the new platform need to have the value too. They can’t just play underdog, or give promise. Well, Google can, but they have big name and good record on delivering recently so they’re a better bet. If Nokia and Intel want to give MeeGo a better traction, they better get try to get more (vocal and influential) geek credit than stockholder credit.
PS: since one of the value is about applications, what if they conduct a survey to see which applications users needed from other platform, then aggresively help those software authors to port their code (rather than merely asking them, which they might not bother the unfeasible touble) and help maintaining it.
Yes, that will be enormous cost to gamble.
nwerneck
2010-08-11, 04:51
Developers are not only driven by materialistic 'carrot objectives'. They are also stimulated by the availability of good development tools. Qt is bringing that too, and not just the ability to work cross-platform. Developing for Symbian and Maemo wasn't great, and that was one poin iPhone and Android were ahead.
On the other hand, iOS and Android are too restrictive, while Maemo and MeeGo are hacker friendly. People shouldn't consider Android a 'Linux based system'...
I feel too little people here have tried MeeGo already! Please dowloaad and test the pendrive live image ! You boot it and you are tweeting in seconds. It comes with media player and all. Lots of 'apps' that any other linux distro has.
MeeGo can become the great distro for ARM machines and specific netbooks...
One thing is not clear to me is how much Ovi store and other Nokia stuff will be available for MeeGo devices in general. But it's a good thing they are starting with the open part, and not making like Google, letting people wanting to have more than the 'public' part of Android actually is.
maybe exporting to space(for Predator or aliens perhaps)? our earth is too crowded for another NewOS.
Problem is, there’s also the now-and-here requirement.
Take example, I want to buy PC and want to use Photoshop, but I don’t want to use Windows. Yes, there’s Gimp and other alternative, but assume nobody write the software yet. Does that means I had to bear for years waiting for someone to think it worth the trouble writing that image editor. Imagine if the need is professional.
I understand perfectly well your premises. Well, if the need is professional, then the investment should be made by the company. Which explains the ubiquity of Windows. I only tolerate Windows for my work needs because it came practically for free with my new laptop, and 7 turned out pretty good. All software that I use comes form the Linux world, and I love it. The second I find anything annoying about Windows, it's gone...
For now, the new platform need to have the value too. They can’t just play underdog, or give promise. Well, Google can, but they have big name and good record on delivering recently so they’re a better bet. If Nokia and Intel want to give MeeGo a better traction, they better get try to get more (vocal and influential) geek credit than stockholder credit.
Well think also that something of great value today may leave you completely dependent and robbed tomorrow.
PS: since one of the value is about applications, what if they conduct a survey to see which applications users needed from other platform, then aggresively help those software authors to port their code (rather than merely asking them, which they might not bother the unfeasible touble) and help maintaining it.
Yes, that will be enormous cost to gamble.
I have made a similar, perhaps more naive suggestion in the past: why not find out how many copies of a popular application a certain developer sells, and then buy from the developer the ones for the first three or six months -- not the copyright to the app, but individual copies (which could even be resold to end users). That should be incentive for some at least to port their code, since it would guarantee them a start on the new market.
My interest is actually, 1st party developers for web services I already used on desktop and want to bring to mobile. Those, I think, is the developers driven by “carrot objectives”.
But that’s just me.
There’s words back then when Linux is still used to be pitted against Windows as the underdog champion. Windows users wait for applications they need, Linux users write applications they need.
As great as it sounds, average peoples can’t and don’t want to write software, they want it ready.
Well… something to get credit besides the developer. Better company image (suggested this before the apps topic).
Combining the voices in the community council topic as well as topic about Froyo update to the Milestone in XDA Devs… they should open about everything.
What they’re doing, when it’s planned to be finished. If any suggestion is in review and a date when it will be answered (and quick). A straight to the point yes/no answer, not being ambiguous. Keep contact, make the audience know that their demand reached open ears in the higher ups and is answered with action (or rejected clearly without trying to be nice so we can go on) instead of marketing peoples trying to fix technical trouble with sweet words.
Will MeeGo have that ? And have it published more koudly in places where average consumer can see and understand what it means ?
Sopwith: hasn’t thought that deep yet :D
As long as they don’t acquire the software company instead.
Russianhaxor
2010-08-11, 05:20
Knowing Nokia's track record it will be worse than HTC, Motorola, or Samsung.
Yes, I agree. But that's the thing... they need to change that.
[QUOTE=attila77;780916]People will not develop for MeeGo - they will develop for Qt. ...
I have seen this argument several times, but I still don't get it technically. If you write for Qt for the desktop, you may e.g. make clever use of the third mouse button. You may make interesting applications based on hovering. You may save and load your data in application specific places. You can popup lots of sub windows (e.g. like gimp does). You can make heavy use of read/write cycles to the hard disk. And I'm sure lots of other decisions that work just fine on the desktop, but don't scale to a mobile device with its different constraints. How does Qt take care of that? E.g. an Android application is supposed to automatically store its entire state on close. How does Qt/MeeGo do that, or doesn't it? Is it up to the application programmer to decide whether he wants to store the state, or popup a window asking whether to save the data?
don't forget the basics in making a successful mobile OS, a good PIM is with search capability, 2 fundamentals the n900 has missed.
fatalsaint
2010-08-11, 14:31
I have seen this argument several times, but I still don't get it technically. If you write for Qt for the desktop, you may e.g. make clever use of the third mouse button. You may make interesting applications based on hovering. You may save and load your data in application specific places. You can popup lots of sub windows (e.g. like gimp does). You can make heavy use of read/write cycles to the hard disk. And I'm sure lots of other decisions that work just fine on the desktop, but don't scale to a mobile device with its different constraints. How does Qt take care of that? E.g. an Android application is supposed to automatically store its entire state on close. How does Qt/MeeGo do that, or doesn't it? Is it up to the application programmer to decide whether he wants to store the state, or popup a window asking whether to save the data?
Yes, it's up to the developer to decide how their app works.. I don't see a problem with that?
If a Developer designs something with Desktop, AND Mobile devices as their target.. then as they are designing it they will avoid such things as the third mouse button. If the developer designs it for Desktops only then they might add things that would be non-optimal for mobile devices.
This is not a bad thing.. Developers decide for themselves how their app works. Besides, it's not like most desktop UI's are very efficient on small touchscreens. So when a Developer designs their application they take all this into account.
As far as saving state, all MeeGo is, is Linux. There is no "saving state" like in android, Maemo doesn't have it, so what's the question? If a Dev wants their app to save state, they make it, otherwise they make it work like every other application for Linux and Windows. Android is a separate beast because it thinks for you. It decides which apps you want running when and it decides which apps gets backgrounded/sleeped/or saved out. So therefore the applications on Android have to maintain a state or people will soon realize how annoying it is to go to an app you were just using only to find out it restarted itself.
On Maemo/MeeGo, you have to manually close the application, if you don't it'll sit there running constantly until you do - therefore no need for "save states".
Again, the power here resides with the Developer to decide their target audience, design their application accordingly, and code it.
railroadmaster
2010-08-12, 01:22
Ouch MeeGo doesn't seem to have a lot going for it.
Failed to name why MeeGo is more than just another Linux based mobile platform and why developers should create applications for MeeGo. No qt doesn't change the fact that MeeGo is immature.
Failed to name a killer feature for people who aren't Linux nerds.
Failed to name why OEMS should adopt such an immature platform. Neither Nokia or Intel is neutral.
Sorry don't mean to hate just I need reasons for people who aren't Linux nerds to use the platform and real reasons to create applications. Also Intel or Nokia are not neutral by any stretch of the imagination sure Linux foundation is but MeeGo was the creation of Nokia and Intel.
railroadmaster
2010-08-12, 03:57
Yes, I agree. But that's the thing... they need to change that.
They probably won't change that.
Yes, it's up to the developer to decide how their app works.. I don't see a problem with that?
:
Ok, thanks for explaining. This dismisses the notion that you can take any Qt program and just recompile it and run it under MeeGo. I.e. there has to be an active concern for the developer to make sure it is cross platform.
I can see the advantages and disadvantages with this approach. What's nice about it is all the freedom it leaves the developer. On the other hand applications will have less infrastructure in common, which means that they may behave differently, as well as each application needs to reinvent the wheel.
It is interesting to note the difference in a draconian approach that Apple takes for the ipad/iphone vs the "on our Windows 7 tablet you can run any of 3 million windows application" approach of Microsoft. I think that users prefer the Apple approach, as it will ensure that the user interface has been tested and works for the tablet platform.
But perhaps the same advantage can be achieved for MeeGo by some kind of voluntary assertion. E.g. an icon indicating that "this application has been tested to adher to the MeeGo style guide version 3.5.2".
fatalsaint
2010-08-12, 21:39
Well that is actually going to be a problem with almost any infrastructure once you separate the hardware manufacturers from the OS developers.
The better comparison is Android. Where "theoretically" you can write an android app on any Android.. and just deploy it across the market and everyone with Android can now use it right?
Not quite. Anyone that uses Android will know when looking through the Market comments they get people *all the time* reporting "Force Closes Device X", "Won't launch on Device Y", "Keyboard doesn't work on Device Z".. etc. Because even an Android app that is portable still has to adhere to the hardware capabilities (and the different OS versions and manufacturer customized tweaks) across platforms.
Switching this to QT and your first sentence:
Ok, thanks for explaining. This dismisses the notion that you can take any Qt program and just recompile it and run it under MeeGo. I.e. there has to be an active concern for the developer to make sure it is cross platform.
That's not entirely true. For the most part... you can take any QT app and pretty much just compile it for whatever you want. The problem comes in to will it work? Take for example the N900. There was a few Mail programs written in QT that people have ported over, and I myself recompiled one for the N900. It compiled fine, launched on the N900 fine. The problem was the UI was not optimized for a tiny screen, and all the options menu's and stuff go off the screen. Making it unusable.
But, the app itself "worked", and was cross-platform compatible, but because the original developer had no intention of a Mobile device using their product - they did not code it to be usable on them.
Apple maintains both their hardware and their software. So they can ensure that every app written for a specific OS version will work the same on their hardware because all of their hardware is very similar in performance. They don't have to play a mix and matching game of some hardware vs others.
So anyway, the point is, the disadvantage here is the same as the advantage here: Multiple peoples hands in the Pot. MeeGo (should be) no different than Android in this case.
I'm sure this has been answered and I either missed it or can't get my head around it, but...
Symbian and MeeGo are open source. Use Qt to develop a UI/UX for each. Use Qt to develop apps that run on either.
Now... how are they differentiated?
EDIT: from end user standpoint, for marketability.
fatalsaint
2010-08-12, 21:55
Now... how are they differentiated?
(I think you are asking about development so I will answer as such, if I missed your point let me know..)
By Hardware capabilities.
Theoretically I could write a QT app that uses hardware keys to navigate things or drive a car.
Problem: Half our MeeGo devices don't have a hardware keyboard! They can't play my game! (I believe this actually happened a bit in Androids infancy when the G1 was the only device. When the MyTouch came around I seem to recall people complaining that hardware keyboards were required to use the app and they didn't have one.)
Or, QT is also on my desktop and as dov said earlier: I could code my app to be a Desktop app in QT with a Desktop-style UI (or require left, right and middle mouse buttons for example) and then someone tries to port it to MeeGo or Symbian (because it's QT). Unfortunately the UI will be unintuitive at best, unusable at worse on the smaller devices.
Also, there is likely to be at least some internal differences between Symbian and MeeGo.. so if I code my QT app to rely on something that only exists within Symbian, then porting it over to MeeGo is not a straightforward process. It will need to be fixed/worked around to get it to work.
Etc.
QT (or any platform that I've seen) is not 100% "Code once, deploy anywhere" when you actually talk about 'usability'. Sure, if it's in QT we can likely make it run on our devices... but whether we can use the App or not is a different story.
Actually asking from an end user (ie, marketing) standpoint, sorry.
attila77
2010-08-12, 21:57
I'm sure lots of other decisions that work just fine on the desktop, but don't scale to a mobile device with its different constraints. How does Qt take care of that? E.g. an Android application is supposed to automatically store its entire state on close. How does Qt/MeeGo do that, or doesn't it? Is it up to the application programmer to decide whether he wants to store the state, or popup a window asking whether to save the data?
That is not exactly what I was talking about :) The point is that, naturally, you will have to adapt to a mobile use-case. BUT. You will do that in Qt. You're not doing it 'in/for MeeGo'. The same stuff is applicable to Symbian, WinMo, UMPCs and even Android/webOS (should you want to use the unofficial ports). In those terms there is nothing specific in MeeGo (unlike when you develop for iOS or Android, where your tools and code are only good for THAT particular platform). Thus, the bottom line for a developer is "I'm making apps for Qt compatible platforms (of a given form factor)", and not "I'm making apps for MeeGo".
attila77
2010-08-12, 22:09
Actually asking from an end user (ie, marketing) standpoint, sorry.
Fatalsaint is right, there is no(t much) difference from a user standpoint apart from more high-end hardware coming with MeeGo and 'modest' ones coming with Symbian (and their UIs of course tweaked accordingly). This part of Nokia strategy I don't quite get. Personally, I think that it's this Qt strategy that needs to be pushed, that's the thing that can and should be made cool (I actually blogged about this). Samsung got this right - what they call Bada is in essence their (puny ;) ) equivalent of Qt with all the extra APIs/libs (even though they got two different OSs under the hood depending on device class). Symbian as a brand value is just in freefall. MeeGo is pretty much an unknown. What is your supercool secret weapon that actually has a pretty good reputation and solid (and marketable !) name ? Qt. Well, what's the holdup then ?
Good points attila77 (and I read and liked your article). Qt makes it easier for Nokia to flat out drop the OS that winds up lacking bang for the buck, and no average end user need be the wiser.
mikecomputing
2010-08-12, 22:31
So if Nokia and Intel wants to see MeeGo a success then they will have to start thinking about App store and connection with big app developer companies.
Dont agree, We dont need a appstore cause it stops development if company takes control the way apple do it.
We have already seen this kind of problem in nokia OVI store who doesnt grant access for those developing in python and thats a "apple way of doing it" and not a solution.
Meego will not fit for all people but for those who prefer openess and core linux and alot programminglanguage alternatives, Meego is the winner :-)
After reading through the bulk of this thread I am encouraged. What could have rapidly devolved into a "chuck rocks at Nokia for how they have abandonned us" sort of thread it actually has some clear foward looking thinking. Not all the clear thinkers think alike, but that is another reason I love being in this community.
What will make Meego succeed? Limiting my remarks strictly to the telephone end of the OS I ask "What made Symbian60 such an 800 pound gorilla?"
The "Gotta Haves"
1- Consistency across devices
2- Reliability on each device
3- A wide range of price points for devices
4- One click installation of applications
5- Emergency reset procedure
6- Full suite of PC/Mac/Linux tools to manage device and information on it
These, excepting the last point which had only part of that going for it, are what made Symbian60 my UI of choice since I bought a Nokia 6290 in 2007. It is what cemented me as a person who looked at Nokia first, then all others, when considering a handset upgrade. Five of the six requirements are device oriented. The last is external to the hardware but as important as, oh, let's say, antenna design, when it comes to givng the end user the "gee-whiz" experience. Get these six correct and the end user will not be thinking about what is running their phone, they will be using it instead.
I understand the uses of Meego will extend far beyond the smartphone/pda with phone realm. But for it to be at hand and in hand for the average user it has to meet the six items I list above.
Leaving behind the S60 comparison there are other areas where Meego will have to shine to succeed.
Support
I see a lot of mentions of supporting the devices after launch. I see support = new releases of firmware in some people's minds. My 6290 got all the way to v3.xx in firmware and was never heard from again. This was okay because it ran like a top on that firmware.
I think more than wanting support people do not want to have to need support. They want their devices optimised and running smoothly from product #001 to the end of production.
Applications
If you build it they will come. We've seen that over and over again with the Nokia tablets, the iPhone, Android devices, Java, etc. Having Qt as the basis is supposed to make device specific applications easier to create from the "Proto-Application" developed in Qt.
If a clear roadmap of the changes required for specific devices arrives, hopefully before the device pre-order period, then Qt developers will be able to deliver. If there is murkiness as to the correct path to take to make your application device specific then there is going to be a slow walk to having the applications people crave and need.
I'm hoping Meego succeeds. I get a great deal of enjoyment from my N900. It won't last forever. I hope when I get a different device it is an upgrade from the N900, not only in specifications but in OS as well. Meego could be that OS.
Good question. My points:
- Great multitasking implementation (better than Android and WP7). UI as smooth as iOS (hopefully).
- No buttons on the front :-)
- Good development tools with Qt SDK.
- Limited to high-end hardware. Means less fragmentation.
- Nokia likely to be the only manufacturer in the beginning (similar to apple).
Cited as a disadvantage by many, but also limits the amount of different hardware used and therefore fragmentation, which is good.
- Nokia Hardware with nice design and great cameras.
- Nokia brand.
- Ovi Maps.
Why I am still skeptical:
Lack of commitment by nokia. Qt everywhere sounds nice (and will work for most things) but the UI and hardware requirements still have to be tweaked for symbian/maemo seperately.
Nokia needs to sell a lot of meego devices, which they will if they want to.
Symbian and MeeGo are open source. Use Qt to develop a UI/UX for each. Use Qt to develop apps that run on either.
Now... how are they differentiated?
no(t much) difference from a user standpoint apart from more high-end hardware coming with MeeGo and 'modest' ones coming with Symbian (and their UIs of course tweaked accordingly). This part of Nokia strategy I don't quite get. Personally, I think that it's this Qt strategy that needs to be pushed
The answer is actually pretty simple, imho: if your app doesn't require MeeGo's capabilities, you don't differentiate. Despite Qt being awesome, Symbian will never be a Unix-like operating system. End users will just see that cheaper phones don't run as much stuff as more expensive phones.
Qt only needs to be pushed to developers. Right now, it can even be promoted to users, but when there's enough software, they won't need any convincing about developers being present.
Despite Qt being awesome, Symbian will never be a Unix-like operating system.
I'm only to read this article as it's very interesting topic and from the first look a nice discussion took place.
But answer for this is simple. You forget S^4 will be completely rewritten using QT. It will be something like light version of MeeGo at first for non high-end phones at the market at first. Later,probably MeeGo would be used on phones in almost all price range. But we have to wait to see=)
captainqtp
2010-08-18, 00:09
A little different approach from an average user -
MeeGo won't work if it is MeeToo (sorry couldn't resist)
Uniqueness gets people interested. I think one the things that really kicked off the iphone revolution was that it was one of the first devices to make browsing the web really easy and intuitive. It offered something unique and different that got people excited.
So what can make MeeGo unique? One thing that already sets it apart is that it is running a full Linux distro. What are some things there that MeeGo can take advantage of?
1- For the first time, MeeGo gives us the chance to "live" an OS. There is potential to turn MeeGo into an "everything" device. Imagine this commercial- guy wakes up morning, turns off his MeeGo device alarm clock, gets online, checks into his flight, eats breakfast, reads the news on his device, goes to work, hooks up his to device to his monitor keyboard and mouse and starts using open office, prints a few reports, creates a presentation for his sales pitch that afternoon, unplugs, uses navigation system in his car that is already synced with the customers address on his mobile device, hooks his device up to a projector via hdmi, and lands the deal. Then he goes into his amazon/netflix movie app and starts downloading a movie over his 4g connection for that night. He gets home, hooks his mobile device up to his big screen tv (or streams it) and watches a movie with his family.
If nokia/intel does it right they can build devices that do absolutely everything and go with you everywhere.
2- Build a strong enterprise management system. Devices should be very secure, able to be provisioned remotely and automatically, screen and control sharing should be simple, corporate application controls etc, should be top notch.
Right there you have a direct competitor with RIM and WinMo in the enterprise space, a space that is badly in need of another player.
Then, take that system and make it friendly for families, allow parents total control of their children's devices, and make troubleshooting simple, but make it fun too. Make games that the whole family can join together. Family friendly will sell big in many places... it is segment that is seldom targeted directly in the smart phone space.
3 - leverage some older techs to get things rolling. Offering the N-Gage library for free would be a great selling point.
4 - I live in the US so I'll tell you right now that Nokia's marketing here is a major fail. The euro centric marketing only appeals to a narrow segment here. Family centric marketing or business centric marketing will go further, in my opinion (which probably isn't worth much).
I think if MeeGo effectively does at least a few of those things I mentioned, it could really improve its standing wrt to its competitors.
automagic68
2010-08-18, 00:30
September 15th is the day when Nokia better lay all their MeeGo/N9 cards on the table so to speak. If HTC steals the show with their rumored announcement of Desire HD....It could be the most EPIC FAIL of a Nokia World Conference for years to come. Sadly I am holding my breath as Nokia's marketing is just soo bad.
Meego will work as long as phone companies are willing to provide non-hamstringed drivers for their closed components. E.g. every iteration of the nokia tablets has had closed video drivers that do not work to their full potential. Even the n900 drivers are terrible. I used to own an Touch HD (awful phone) and watched development of android progress to the point of drivers for the cellular radio and graphics, but these were extremely difficult to reverse engineer (maybe they succeeded)....the same is likely with the NITdroid project as well. So to me, if Megoo will work is dependent upon whether the phone manufacturers are willing to provide current, working drivers for their closed components (either os or binary). It can easily be done...nvidia has been doing it for years with their linux drivers. The rest is easy and I would bet the community would jump on it but nobody wants to develop for a hamstringed product.....
attila77
2010-08-18, 07:56
The answer is actually pretty simple, imho: if your app doesn't require MeeGo's capabilities, you don't differentiate. Despite Qt being awesome, Symbian will never be a Unix-like operating system. End users will just see that cheaper phones don't run as much stuff as more expensive phones.
It has nothing to do with the unicity (is that a word?) of Symbian. Hell, Qt supports Win and WinMo which were pretty far from Unix.
Qt only needs to be pushed to developers. Right now, it can even be promoted to users, but when there's enough software, they won't need any convincing about developers being present.
I think there is a miscommunication. It's not about the developers, it's about tech and brand. Symbian has suffered serious brand damage and will be hard to push when most people discard it offhand (even if ^3 and ^4 are a completely different story). MeeGo is a 'whatsthat' for now, way below the radar of most phone users. So what is the tech that is available now, which automatically affect both Nokia OSes, already has a good brand recognition and can be expanded ? Qt. It's like the killer feature thing - apparently for this target audience you need to be able to say 'but X doesn't have Qt' just as people say 'Y doesn't have Flash' or 'Z doesn't have iTunes', etc.
It has nothing to do with the unicity (is that a word?) of Symbian. Hell, Qt supports Win and WinMo which were pretty far from Unix.
Of course it does. If MeeGo wouldn't be closer to a full desktop operating system, there would be no point to it, since Symbian is much lighter. Some functionality will be easy to implement on MeeGo and very hard on Symbian. Qt can't abstract away the things that a lighter operating system will inevitably be missing, and in many cases people will want and need to use other libraries than Qt.
MeeGo is a 'whatsthat' for now, way below the radar of most phone users. So what is the tech that is available now, which automatically affect both Nokia OSes, already has a good brand recognition and can be expanded ? Qt.
Anyone who thinks MeeGo is a 'whatsthat' will most likely understand Qt even less. If the objective is to work around the Symbian brand, the best solution might be to start pushing Orbit and DirectUI branding, not Qt.
What Will Make MeeGo Succeed?
A Customers who buy a Smartphone is Answer.
Looking back what's make iPhone Success, it's 2 new things.
1. New Device ==> iPhone
2. New Market ==> Apple Store(Mobile Software).
Now and Next Year iPhone is dropped and Android Devices come up,
Everything look like sunrise and sunset.
Intel And Nokia would make New and Difference to challenged Buyer and Developer. It's mean... No New Devices, No New Market, .. No New OS(Android won now).
I think Meego is not Success in Smartphone, Vehicle or Any devices Market coz Meego followed a Java Footprint (Java OS for Any-devices) and less of device partner.
What new from Intel and Nokia?
A Customers who buy a Smartphone is Answer.
Not really. See below.
Looking back what's make iPhone Success, it's 2 new things.
1. New Device ==> iPhone
2. New Market ==> Apple Store(Mobile Software).
[...]
What new from Intel and Nokia?
Good points.
In case of MeeGo this are:
1. New Device ==> pocketable microcomputer, in-car computer, set-top-box computer, etc.
2. New Market ==> "put a full blown microcomputer everywhere"
You see the key point here? MeeGo is not targeted at smartphones. This is dying breed.
MeeGo is targeted for normal microcomputers, like you are used on your desktop, but in a tiny form factor.
I'm scared to open the refrigerator. ;-)
Not really. See below.
Good points.
In case of MeeGo this are:
1. New Device ==> pocketable microcomputer, in-car computer, set-top-box computer, etc.
2. New Market ==> "put a full blown microcomputer everywhere"
You see the key point here? MeeGo is not targeted at smartphones. This is dying breed.
MeeGo is targeted for normal microcomputers, like you are used on your desktop, but in a tiny form factor.
I'm scared to open the refrigerator. ;-)
HaHaHa,You can Open Web Browser to Search Everything and watch your videos/photos and play MP3 in some SAMSUNG refrigerator now. :p
marktold
2010-08-18, 09:56
1) usability
2) keep it pure - no much Nokia intervention which will make updates lag for about 5 month
3) take Maemo and add all the good ideas from brainstrom and you sure have a go
4) Full fetched browser - OperaMin looks good but no flash
5) adjust to competitors - Take whats good from others
Markus
danramos
2010-08-18, 09:59
September 15th is the day when Nokia better lay all their MeeGo/N9 cards on the table so to speak. If HTC steals the show with their rumored announcement of Desire HD....It could be the most EPIC FAIL of a Nokia World Conference for years to come. Sadly I am holding my breath as Nokia's marketing is just soo bad.
And Motorola. Don't forget they have an Android 3.0 tablet called the STINGRAY coming out later this year. I have no idea what the specs are, but considering there's a new 1280x768 profile in Android 3.0 and nVidia are singing the praises of how the Motorola STINGRAY will use their new Tegra graphics chips, and this looks like a pretty big tablet, this might give Nokia and MeeGo a black eye and a far more difficult time trying to catch up.
attila77
2010-08-18, 10:16
Of course it does. If MeeGo wouldn't be closer to a full desktop operating system, there would be no point to it, since Symbian is much lighter. Some functionality will be easy to implement on MeeGo and very hard on Symbian. Qt can't abstract away the things that a lighter operating system will inevitably be missing, and in many cases people will want and need to use other libraries than Qt.
Care to share some examples of such functionality (except the dbus thingy, which is already being tried to get rid of) ? The whole point of QtMobility is to abstract away those gritty details, and while being able to use other libs is a huge boon, (for better or worse) it's a sideeffect, not something encouraged.
Anyone who thinks MeeGo is a 'whatsthat' will most likely understand Qt even less. If the objective is to work around the Symbian brand, the best solution might be to start pushing Orbit and DirectUI branding, not Qt.
I would agree with that, but I also think making it clear that the actual platform is Qt, not MeeGo or Symbian, brings more benefit on the long run, exactly because it spans the whole Nokia smartphone ecosystem (=can provide synergy). And then, within that, those who care enough to know what Unix means can go for MeeGo. On a similar note - take the Bada thing - do you know how the constituent OS-es (one Linux, one some proprietary RTOS) are called ? Does anyone ? Does it matter ?
automagic68
2010-08-18, 14:53
Will MeeGo + QT allow for the release of Office Software for the OS? Office Software + a 4 row keyboard would be a big improvement over Easy Debian + 3 row keyboard!!! Also hope if Nokia's MeeGo handset has 3.7in or 4.0in touchscreen that the resolution will be greater than 480x800 pixels. I'm sure this isn't too much to ask lol.
Oracle may well make Meego succeed if everyone gets nervous about Java in Android.
attila77
2010-08-18, 15:33
Will MeeGo + QT allow for the release of Office Software for the OS? Office Software + a 4 row keyboard would be a big improvement over Easy Debian + 3 row keyboard!!! Also hope if Nokia's MeeGo handset has 3.7in or 4.0in touchscreen that the resolution will be greater than 480x800 pixels. I'm sure this isn't too much to ask lol.
Well, there is nothing preventing Office software from being released now, either (we even have a few of them), MeeGo gives no inherent advantage over Maemo in those terms. The screen was announced as a 800x480 (size wasn't specified).
fatalsaint
2010-08-18, 15:39
Well, there is nothing preventing Office software from being released now, either (we even have a few of them), MeeGo gives no inherent advantage over Maemo in those terms. The screen was announced as a 800x480 (size wasn't specified).
Huh?? When was a real MeeGo device's anything announced? I didn't know Nokia already announced their next->next device?
I know they announced some stuff about their Maemo/MeeGo hybrid.. but not a MeeGo device?
What will make MeeGo be adopted be successful in the smartphone market where the Nokia n900 wasn't. What will make average smartphone users adopt Meego not just users who want to tinker there device...
What Will Make MeeGo Succeed?
Women and Windows. Simple azat.
The average smartphone user hasn't been fully realized yet. The driving force that has put Android over the top vs. the iPhone has been women.
Traditional smart phone users are road warriors that rely on secure e-mail and company served information and white collar geeks exploring smartphone possibilities. Both groups are mostly men.
The first group uses RIM and this wont change over night. The second group is fickle as all hell and their next desire is hard to predict.
The smartphone as a consumer device will be adopted most by women.
What will attract the trend setters are specific "killer" apps that cater to their needs and the service sectors that they most often work in. After that, they will explore other uses and these alpha women using the product will attract the beta's to it.
Real Estate, Health Care, Education, and Travel are 4 of these sectors that 3rd party apps could reach the alphas.
***
A full set of Windows tools should be available to developers and developers who use them exclusively should be groomed as some of the leaders in the MeeGo community.
"Just install Linux on your desktop." should be avoided as the default answer to any problems that they encounter and Windows specific solutions should be developed instead.
Prior to Maemo5 this community was Linux centric. In fact, Maemo was looked at by some as a means to convert Windows users over to the other side... but that was before Apple entered the smartphone picture and introduced a third desktop OS into the mix.
Soon Google will also have it's own desktop OS. Hoping everyone converts to a particular desktop OS because the smartphone it's based on is so dang great would now be a fools mission and resources better spent elsewhere.
One of this communities problems IMHO after Maemo5 dropped was its inability in dealing with the Windows users the N900 attracted.
As MeeGo matures and more devices are offered, alternatives to RIM will develop. Rugged, less expensive devices will attract the blue collar geeks, and the white collar geeks... Who knows? They may then be on to something completely different. :eek:
More immediate success will come by attracting new smartphone users. These new users will most likely be women and Windows users as well.
The smartphone as a consumer device will be adopted most by women.
What will attract the trend setters are specific "killer" apps [...]
Sudoku and Mahjong? :rolleyes:
pagesix1536
2010-08-18, 16:53
Compiz Fusion!! I want the Maemo swipe to be a 3D cube.
Care to share some examples of such functionality (except the dbus thingy, which is already being tried to get rid of) ? The whole point of QtMobility is to abstract away those gritty details, and while being able to use other libs is a huge boon, (for better or worse) it's a sideeffect, not something encouraged.
It may not be encouraged, but a lot of software will be ports with mobile optimized GUIs. Even with new apps, if you religiously try to stick to Qt, you'll end up reimplementing Unix in the end.
I agree, though, that most of the time Qt will be enough. But if you can save time by using existing Linux libraries, and you're ok with sacrificing Symbian support, why limit yourself? Here's something most of us probably use, and it depends heavily on other libraries:
mad-developer
Depends: openssh-server
Depends: libfuse2
Depends: fuse-utils
Depends: libqt4-core
Depends: libqt4-gui
Depends: usb-network-modules
Depends: gdb
One major difference is that MeeGo is not a smartphone OS. It is a mobile OS, for everything from mobile phones through cars to netbooks, giving a potential for a vastly larger ecosystem.
MeeGo is not targeted at smartphones. This is dying breed.
MeeGo is targeted for normal microcomputers, like you are used on your desktop, but in a tiny form factor.
This is what I wonder about: are iOS and Android going to look rinky-dink in two years? Are people going to have fabulous hardware for mobile devices and find that the software capabilities are not expanding at nearly the same rate?
quipper8
2010-08-18, 18:42
This is what I wonder about: are iOS and Android going to look rinky-dink in two years? Are people going to have fabulous hardware for mobile devices and find that the software capabilities are not expanding at nearly the same rate?
I hear news that google's tablet offering will be with chromeOS, not android, so this line of thought seems to be playing out
attila77
2010-08-18, 18:54
Huh?? When was a real MeeGo device's anything announced? I didn't know Nokia already announced their next->next device?
I know they announced some stuff about their Maemo/MeeGo hybrid.. but not a MeeGo device?
I believe the OP referred to the hybrid device.
attila77
2010-08-18, 19:02
It may not be encouraged, but a lot of software will be ports with mobile optimized GUIs. Even with new apps, if you religiously try to stick to Qt, you'll end up reimplementing Unix in the end.
...
Here's something most of us probably use, and it depends heavily on other libraries:
mad-developer
Jokers will tell you Qt already reimplemented unix :) Now, system stuff will obviously be OS dependent, but standalone apps much less. And since Qt is your only stable point that spans all systems, it really is a serious hit to depend on specific libs. If you take a look at Ovi, they already work like that, denying apps that use external libs, no matter how popular.
RevdKathy
2010-08-18, 19:33
OK, I'll bite. Here's my two penn'orth.
If Meego is going to really stand on its own paws and present a serious market competitor to IOS, RIM and Android is needs to be bipedal.
On the one hand, as a truly open OS, Meego needs to remember where its roots are - on one level it needs to remain a geek toy, a develepment device, a member of the linux family. The version of Meego which removes the X-terminal in the name of 'making it simple for punters' will have lost its way.
On the other hand, Meego needs the sort of intuitive, KISS, and frankly whizzy UI that will excite bloggers, commentators industry experts. It needs to be perfectly usable to the average bear who doesn't know a single command line: she shouldn't need to unless she chooses. A wide range of smooth, flowing Qt apps easily accessible in a limited number of locations will facilitate this, but the basic UI needs to stand alone and excire people.
What makes an OS successful? It requires a certain critical mass of popularity within a user group. Then people start buying the 'cool device' their colleague has, or the device that's the next model up because it's even cooler. That's what Meego needs.
Here is my opinion:
It sounds real great the MeeGo will power the future "mobile computers" and that it will replace Symbian in the high end devices... but...
There _should be_ also cheap MeeGo devices. Very cheap ones that will really make it have a good market share.
Here is my opinion:
It sounds real great the MeeGo will power the future "mobile computers" and that it will replace Symbian in the high end devices... but...
There _should be_ also cheap MeeGo devices. Very cheap ones that will really make it have a good market share.
Nothing stops other manufacturers shipping cheap MeeGo phones. As far as Nokia goes it's pretty clear that they wont bring Meego to the under 400 euros range in a near future at least and why should they?
Imo in a best case scenario that price will set some kind of hw standards for Nokia MeeGo phones. Android just like Symbian back in the days is starting to get quite fragmented.
IINexusII
2010-08-18, 19:53
if they could get valve to give full support with steam, able to chat to steam users then its a WIN
Imo in a best case scenario that price will set some kind of hw standards for Nokia MeeGo phones.
Price is a very good way to achieve better market share. An average person will never pay this much for any mobile device.
I dunno why don't they "get" this.
attila77
2010-08-18, 19:55
On the one hand, as a truly open OS, Meego needs to remember where its roots are - on one level it needs to remain a geek toy, a develepment device, a member of the linux family. The version of Meego which removes the X-terminal in the name of 'making it simple for punters' will have lost its way.
Yes, I'm very afraid this is a real possibility, with already a tendency to profile people into separate user and developer communities. I really really hope it doesn't become another jailbreak/root type of thing.
There _should be_ also cheap MeeGo devices. Very cheap ones that will really make it have a good market share.
In Nokia's case they cannot go too low as it would cannibalize Symbian (which IS more efficient on cheaper devices). MeeGo needs to keep it's top-of-the-line image if it is to compete in brand-name sense. Note that we're not talking about niche stuff, just a healthy measure of 'premium smell' - not unlike what the iPhone does brand-wise.
Price is a very good way to achieve better market share. An average person will never pay this much for any mobile device.
I dunno why don't they "get" this.
If anything it's Nokia that uses this most. Just compare Symbian market share and device prices to anything else out there.
If we are talking about Nokia, not us customers it's profits that Nokia is after, they got the market share already and have had that for long time.
Qt while not the savior here it's the one that ties Symbian Foundation and Meego together and when you got the software(hopefully) and userbase for it where do you need market share with MeeGo? Again this is looking it from Nokia's perspective.
In Nokia's case they cannot go too low as it would cannibalize Symbian (which IS more efficient on cheaper devices). MeeGo needs to keep it's top-of-the-line image if it is to compete in brand-name sense. Note that we're not talking about niche stuff, just a healthy measure of 'premium smell' - not unlike what the iPhone does brand-wise.
It would cannibalize Symbian - yes, but why care?
MeeGo needs to keep it's top-of-the-line image - perhaps
what the iPhone does brand-wise - completely disagreed
Having MeeGo in the cheaper segment would mean more market share, which would result in more interest from application developers. (Eg. if there is a huge user base, there is more chanche that one's app will make more money, thus it is more worth to develop for that platform.)
A thought about Qt:
Currently it is hard to do anything serious without platform-specific hacks. I think this will change in the future, but most of the so-called "multiplatform" Qt apps are full of #ifdefs... Some stuff simply doesn't work, without any reason.
attila77
2010-08-18, 20:55
It would cannibalize Symbian - yes, but why care?
Because it would allow them to offer comparable functionality on weaker (=cheaper) hardware, which gives them more headroom, either via higher profits, or market share via lower prices.
Having MeeGo in the cheaper segment would mean more market share, which would result in more interest from application developers. (Eg. if there is a huge user base, there is more chanche that one's app will make more money, thus it is more worth to develop for that platform.)
Again, if you're a professional developer, the platform is Qt - in which case whether it is 10% MeeGo or 50% MeeGo (opposed to 90 or 50% of Symbian) changes very little in terms of userbase. This is a huuuge advantage over Android or the iPhone where your tools are limited to products that themselves are just a small part of the overall market (no matter how popular on blogs).
Currently it is hard to do anything serious without platform-specific hacks. I think this will change in the future, but most of the so-called "multiplatform" Qt apps are full of #ifdefs... Some stuff simply doesn't work, without any reason.
I agree, but this stuff is fairly new and the Maemo5 specifics have been added solely to be able to make apps that look and feel like the Hildon ones. Expect that to go away or at least be minimized when Qt becomes the 'native' toolkit of MeeGo and Symbian.
I agree, but this stuff is fairly new and the Maemo5 specifics have been added solely to be able to make apps that look and feel like the Hildon ones.
Except for the cases when they simply don't work, and the widgets that look ugly on Maemo, etc.
Also note the many undocumented "features", and the other stuff that simply misses a Qt-based abstraction. In these cases, dependencies on other native Maemo 5 libraries are necessary.
Expect that to go away or at least be minimized when Qt becomes the 'native' toolkit of MeeGo and Symbian.
Oh, really?
I can already see the "future" - thanks to MeeGo touch (aka. DUI)
#if defined(Q_OS_MEEGO) || defined(Q_OS_SYMBIAN)
#include <Dui>
#endif
...
#if defined(Q_OS_MEEGO) || defined(Q_OS_SYMBIAN)
DuiButton myButton = new DuiButton("Click me!", this);
#else
QButton myButton = new QButton("Click me!", this);
#endif
So... Portability between desktop and mobile applications is out of the window from the start, unless writing _very_ ugly code.
This was a very unwise decision from whoever invented it.
attila77
2010-08-18, 22:57
Except for the cases when they simply don't work, and the widgets that look ugly on Maemo, etc.
Okay, the ugly widgets are the ones that simply have not been reimplemented because people on it are focusing on MeeGo related stuff, it's not an inherent flaw of Qt.
I can already see the "future" - thanks to MeeGo touch (aka. DUI)
Yes, that Duibutton thing is awkward, no need to rub it in, I do that to Qt people all the time :D However, workarounds do exist and hopefully QtQuick (well, QML mainly) will minimize that ifdeffing.
So... Portability between desktop and mobile applications is out of the window from the start, unless writing _very_ ugly code.
This was a very unwise decision from whoever invented it.
Well, TBH that is out the window anyway as you UI is bound to be different on a 3-4" touchscreen and a 22" mouse based one. So straight ports would be out of the question, BUT, I agree ifdeffing is the wrong way to solve that. Let's just hope they don't go as far as making another AVKON :)
Okay, the ugly widgets are the ones that simply have not been reimplemented because people on it are focusing on MeeGo related stuff, it's not an inherent flaw of Qt.
So, the fact that some things are simply not working are not a flaw? How do you mean?
Yes, that Duibutton thing is awkward, no need to rub it in, I do that to Qt people all the time :D However, workarounds do exist and hopefully QtQuick (well, QML mainly) will minimize that ifdeffing.
Yes, hopefully QML will bring us salvation.
Still, I see no reason why they invented yet another lanugage. They could go with an XML-based approach (or they could just adapt XAML with their own schema).
But nooo, let's reinvent the wheel again... :(
Well, TBH that is out the window anyway as you UI is bound to be different on a 3-4" touchscreen and a 22" mouse based one. So straight ports would be out of the question, BUT, I agree ifdeffing is the wrong way to solve that. Let's just hope they don't go as far as making another AVKON :)
Yes, you are right, the UI layout should not be shared across these platforms, but the general UI logic and the general business logic of an application should be. (And fortunately can be.)
attila77
2010-08-19, 08:47
So, the fact that some things are simply not working are not a flaw? How do you mean?
bugs != structural flaws. Caveats apply, of course and not much fun when you get a "wontfix" in your face but as said - keep in mind that Maemo is shoehorned into Qt while MeeGo and the new Symbians will be native, so far less prone to such outcomes. Also, development momentum is on 4.7 - they are keen on fixing stuff that isn’t right in 4.7, 4.6 issues are more difficult to push.
Yes, hopefully QML will bring us salvation.
Still, I see no reason why they invented yet another lanugage. They could go with an XML-based approach (or they could just adapt XAML with their own schema).
But nooo, let's reinvent the wheel again... :(
I’m sure a puppy died there. Oh well. On the Labs blog someone said:
we tried a couple of syntaxes. The biggest trouble with XML is that everything is a string, whereas logically in QML, everything is a JS expression. This makes it rather ugly, as you either have to always dual-quote:
or otherwise mark javascript:
one obvious problem with the latter arises with i18n:
so rest assured, we carefully examined the syntax issue
bugs != structural flaws. Caveats apply, of course and not much fun when you get a "wontfix" in your face
Did you know that QMenuBar::show() doesn't work?
One has to restort to a dirty hack (http://qt.pastebin.com/MYBiLmmA) (which involves manually "sending" an X event (or rather making the app think it was sent)).
When I asked on #qt-maemo why it doesn't just work, they said that this by design. How can something be flawed by design?
but as said - keep in mind that Maemo is shoehorned into Qt while MeeGo and the new Symbians will be native, so far less prone to such outcomes. Also, development momentum is on 4.7 - they are keen on fixing stuff that isn’t right in 4.7, 4.6 issues are more difficult to push.
This is good news, I hope 4.7 will be available on the N900 (and not necessarily as a part of an FW upgrade).
About the "native" argument... Qt if AFAIK a native C++ library. "native" as in "not managed".
I mean, the meaning of the term "native" is often misinterpreted...
Also, the fact that Qt is not part of the OS by default doesn't mean that it shouldn't work.
I’m sure a puppy died there.
I feel sorry for that puppy.
Why does it seem like when people ask questions about what the future may hold, others just come out and knock that down?
What happened to general curiosity about what may come in the future? Wouldn't we rather know what's coming instead of assuming? Or should we just idly sit back and let the people with blind faith assume that they know what's best for us, allow the silence to continue and allow accountability and future plans reside in the realm of the unknown?
Makes... no sense to me.
The above is totally rhetorical. Just thinking out loud, somewhat exasperated that I would like to know what will come down the pipe and others are... well, from my point of view, against it for some damn reason.
attila77
2010-08-19, 10:36
What happened to general curiosity about what may come in the future? Wouldn't we rather know what's coming instead of assuming? Or should we just idly sit back and let the people with blind faith assume that they know what's best for us, allow the silence to continue and allow accountability and future plans reside in the realm of the unknown?
Hey, you're preaching to the choir. The problem is that there is no such knowing on any platform (what upgrades will the Galaxy S get ? Will the iPhone 3GS get iOS 5 ?), only speculation based on precedents (which is better in the case of recent iOS history and worse in case of Nokia Maemo history). But knowing ? We're sadly far, far from that.
...what upgrades will the Galaxy S get?
Froyo 2.2, end of September.
Will the iPhone 3GS get iOS 5?
Yes. But that's the end of its road.
But knowing ? We're sadly far, far from that.
True. Thus the questions.
ivgalvez
2010-08-19, 10:53
don't forget the basics in making a successful mobile OS, a good PIM is with search capability, 2 fundamentals the n900 has missed.
You can use Scout and Extended Contacts Search to solve that missing bits.
railroadmaster
2010-08-21, 01:23
Ok I have some new questions
Will MeeGo be user friendly? Not a huge thing but important.
Will the user interface be mostly consistent? I'm not saying have the same user experience on every form of device but rather that the each hardware platform has it's own consistent user experience.
Will MeeGo be suitable for geeks and manage to be consumer friendly?
Again more questions keep the answers coming. Any answers are welcome.
RevdKathy
2010-08-21, 16:32
I'd give my eye teeth for meego right now if it looked like this (http://mynokiablog.com/2010/08/21/meego-tablet-ui-concept-by-velvet/). I could play with a UI like that for hours just opening and closing things!
frostbyte
2010-08-21, 16:46
or, you could just by some curtains... :)
I'd give my eye teeth for meego right now if it looked like this (http://mynokiablog.com/2010/08/21/meego-tablet-ui-concept-by-velvet/). I could play with a UI like that for hours just opening and closing things!
You can read others reactions about that in here (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=793403#post793403). ;)
IMO that's prime example of UI that's very nice looking and all eye candy, but something i would get mad in a day after that UI shine have started to fade.
Iphone is great with the transitions as they actually underline the action you just did with not much of extra.
automagic68
2010-08-21, 17:57
I believe the goal of the whole MeeGo project is to have a VERY similar interface on all devices. For example if someone has a MeeGo handset and they meet their friend who has a MeeGo tablet, the average user should be able to easy navigate the through the tablet's interface simply because of previous experience of learning it on their handset. Same goes with Netbooks and Nav systems all functioning with the same basic interface.
Will MeeGo be user friendly? Not a huge thing but important.
Yes.
Look at the MeeGo Tablet UX videos.
Will the user interface be mostly consistent? I'm not saying have the same user experience on every form of device but rather that the each hardware platform has it's own consistent user experience.
In theory, yes it will.
Will MeeGo be suitable for geeks and manage to be consumer friendly?
(OMG, I'm starting to sound like some marketing guy...)
Yes, MeeGo will (in theory) be geek-friendly like Maemo. It will have an X Terminal, and all sorts of stuff...
I'd give my eye teeth for meego right now if it looked like this (http://mynokiablog.com/2010/08/21/meego-tablet-ui-concept-by-velvet/). I could play with a UI like that for hours just opening and closing things!
Check out the MeeGo tablet user interface on YouTube. It looks even better (IMHO) than that. ;)
I believe the goal of the whole MeeGo project is to have a VERY similar interface on all devices. For example if someone has a MeeGo handset and they meet their friend who has a MeeGo tablet, the average user should be able to easy navigate the through the tablet's interface simply because of previous experience of learning it on their handset.
Well.... Urm...
See for yourself:
Handset:
http://meego.com/sites/all/files/users/u3/meego-handset-home-l.png
Netbook:
http://meego.com/sites/all/files/users/u3/meego-netbook-myzone.png
Possible ways for meego to succeed.
1-Port Dalivik VM thus instantly have access to all the development happening for Android.
2-Port Meego to many many handsets and change forever the way people look at mobile phones. If every mobile can be dualbooted to meego, people will see mobiles the way they see computers and that could be very disruptive.
3-Give money outright to developers. Long shot but my 2 cents worth.
fatalsaint
2010-08-21, 19:45
(OMG, I'm starting to sound like some marketing guy...)
Yes, MeeGo will (in theory) be geek-friendly like Maemo. It will have an X Terminal, and all sorts of stuff...
Not so fast. Current releases of MeeGo (handset) actually do not have X-term in the default apps list. You have to mess with it in a chroot first to gain access or SSH in to it.
Now.. There is a current (unless it was fixed in a more recent build than I tried) problem with the X-term that's its actually unusable anyway.. so: I'm not sure if the lack of X-term is left out by "design" (making the device "user" friendly).. or if they just moved it out until they get it working properly.
Either way.. the lack of the X-term being in the apps was/is somewhat disconcerting.
I think there's room for MeeGo, as it seems to be the most open and neutral platform. Google already has it's tentacles everywhere, Apple is becoming the new evil (Microsoft) and Microsoft... Well, it's not going to be easy for them either as it was seen with... er... Kin, was it?
However, I also think Nokia and Intel do have to push it hard from the beginning. They need EA to do FIFA and NBA11 to MeeGo smartphones, they need celebrities to go to late night talk shows to show off their latest MeeGo-überphone. They need to have huge coding competitions and be the ultimate super device in a Hollywood (and Bollywood as well) blockbuster movie (like Matrix a few years ago). And of course, queues, stolen prototypes, bloggers, free giveavays based on Twitter messages et cetera.
They just have to make open source the sexiest thing on Earth. Which it is, obviously. We wouldn't be here otherwise, would we? :)
Scoring EA right now would be seen as a win over Microsoft - EA is holding out on the Windows Phone 7 series OS right now, actually.
The comparisons of the tablet UI versus the handset UI shouldn't be happening. Tablet UI is based on Intel Moblin, handset is based on the continuation of Maemo. Not exactly the same.
WP7 is kind of interesting. If you would have asked me ~5 months ago about WP7 i would have said it will fail horribly. Now they actually do seem to be getting some okish selection of hw out for the WP7 launch and Microsoft is finally tying some of it's other products to WP7.
It still seem quite USA centric and WM was never much of anything outside of North America... then that might only be good thing for them. ;) Out of the Android, Symbian, Iphone, MeeGo bunch it's not the one i want, but i can see the appeal it might have for some.
I really am not sure how will MeeGo handset ux fight against Android that's growing by the day. If MeeGo can produce this brand image of family of products(netbooks, tablets, phones) where Android has failed that could be big advantage.
Qt is still probably the key and before that MeeGo needs to have lots of appeal to get that initial push. Just hopefully Symbian is also able to gather devs for the Qt side.
Stskeeps
2010-08-22, 06:52
Either way.. the lack of the X-term being in the apps was/is somewhat disconcerting.
I think it was from the point of view the compositor had a bug that made all non-libmeegotouch apps show as white screens :)
fatalsaint
2010-08-22, 23:38
I think it was from the point of view the compositor had a bug that made all non-libmeegotouch apps show as white screens :)
Well like I had said.. I wasn't sure if it was left out because of the bug, which meant it was useless, or by design. Half the other apps in the list don't work either.. so it didn't make much sense that they hid just this one till it worked and not the rest.
But.. if that was the case.. that's good :D. I was nervous for my X-term loving future ;)
railroadmaster
2010-08-23, 00:37
Well like I had said.. I wasn't sure if it was left out because of the bug, which meant it was useless, or by design. Half the other apps in the list don't work either.. so it didn't make much sense that they hid just this one till it worked and not the rest.
But.. if that was the case.. that's good :D. I was nervous for my X-term loving future ;)
Well as for X-Term I don't see the big it would probably not be preinstalled just like the terminal emulator under Android isn't preinstalled. X-Term would probably just be a third party app. Even if X-Term isn't preinstalled let's hope the capability remains.
Scoring EA right now would be seen as a win over Microsoft - EA is holding out on the Windows Phone 7 series OS right now, actually.
i guess its a win over microsoft then b/c EA announced support for MeeGo back in april :)
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/node/6144
arora.rohan
2010-08-23, 03:46
http://dailymobile.se/2010/08/23/meego-running-on-the-nokia-n900-video-demo/ has this video been posted before..sorry f it has been.
holy cow : The amount of customisability!! amazing..and from video ti seems Vsync is there >< utterwin.
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