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cdstrand
2007-05-12, 02:25
you know, i had a nokia phone once, and it was the worst assembled electronic product i had ever owned, it never worked, and no one at cingular (the company) could ever get it to work. the replaced it, and there was a whole different set of problems, the phone still wouldn't work, but the problems were all different. i got a motorola phone, and all the problems went away.

i bought this nokia N800 with the expectation the company had improved. i seem to have been very, very wrong.

i have had problems connecting this device to the internet, which is a different thread. this evening i decided to try and update the operating system...another thing that, like wifi, doesn't work. i downloaded the tool for my windows xp system, and installed it per the instructions on the website. when i hook the usb cable to the computer and turn the device on, the little usb logo comes up in the upper right hand corner, windows xp recognizes that a nokia n800 has been connected, but the update tool can't find the device...nokia seems to have done it again, and i am in defective product hell with another of their crappy devices. what a beating.

euchreprof
2007-05-12, 02:33
Plug the Nokia N800 into your computer... THEN... just before you turn the Nokia N800 on... you need to HOLD DOWN the "little house" button on your Nokia N800 as you turn the Nokia N800 on... of course have the Nokia Update Wizard running... this is how they pair together.

cdstrand
2007-05-12, 12:05
what a beating.

this inferior hardware teamed with microsoft windows. can there be a worse combination?

your info helped, to a point, but i still can't update the device. it seems one needs to be able to synch the time which, in lieu of doing things like giving decent error messages, etc. nokia has wasted resources carefully checking whether you windows time has been synched before "allowing" the update to run. this sounds pretty trivial, but it is not. with the new daylight savings time rules, there is a windows fix which must be installed before you can hit a time server. that's ok except to get it you have to install "windows genuine advantage" to your operating system, thereby opening your computer up to microsoft.

if nokia had told the truth about what was required to use this device, i never would have bought it, but then they wouldn't have my money unless they used fraud, so, oh well, we can lie about the device, we can lie about its operating system, we can lie about what is required to use it, and somehow, some way we can, if look is with us, steal the money of another unsuspecting customer.

what a beating.

klohmann
2007-05-12, 13:38
Use Linux on your desktop instead - you can then download the linux flash tool from maemo and update without "opening your system up to microsoft".

For what it's worth, I also think that it is unfair to blame the n800 for microsoft's predatory policies.

Just one man's opinion. K.

cdstrand
2007-05-12, 14:37
why require that the time be synched to update the device? That's the problem, not anything microsoft did.

Linux, and I say this as a user for seven years, is like this device, the only difference being Linux is free, and you get what you pay for. Unfortunately, with nokia that is not true, instead you get the full Linux experience *and* you pay for it.

Had I known that the device would be of such general poor quality, (Linux is *not* poor quality) and have the total lack of documentation, along with the unusable software, I would never have bought it. In other words, had Nokia told the truth about the device

1. It is going to take several man days and perhaps man months to get the device up
2. No documentation exists worthy of the name (a single sheet of paper which is 75% graphics is not documentation and the pdf user manual is a total joke, with no instructions how to do anything.
3. No sort of error reporting system exists, the buyer must, on their own, evidently, go onto third party web sites (so long as they have, like Nokia requires, windows genuine advantage installed) and follow some sort of convoluted schedule for getting the basic applications required to troubleshoot the device

I cannot imagine anyone, without virtually unlimited funds and time to fiddle, buying this device.

Now I have to go explain why the thing doesn't work and try to get my money back.

Nokia has proved to me that they are not a quality organization. Essentially, what they have done is what Linux has always done, throw a piece of crap out there and let the users clean it up, again, the only difference being Linux is free.

What a beating.

Reggie
2007-05-12, 14:41
If it's not for you, I suggest you just return it and move on.

brendan
2007-05-12, 14:52
simply because you are too arrogant to learn doesnt mean the device is the trash you purport it to be.

it is not without its faults and shortcomings, but as with most things new-to-market there are growing pains to deal with and improvements to implement. one of the improvements in the works happens to be an OS update without needing to reflash the device and lose settings and data.

admittedly, many of the users on this board are of the advanced user persuasion, but we all had to learn what has to be done to get the device working to our satisfaction. we all have our gripes and desires for the product, but we arent here to bash Nokia or M$ or Linux.

Texrat
2007-05-12, 15:19
If it's not for you, I suggest you just return it and move on.

Wiser words were never spoken.

Bernard
2007-05-12, 15:28
I don't have any of these problems. And I'm not an advanced linux user.

I bought it because it is the N800 and 770 are the ONLY devices currently on the market that you can put in your pocket and browse the Internet on in a normal good-working way. It IS an internet tablet and it does that very very well. (all those UMPC's are way to big to fit in a pocket)

The latest mobile phones are getting better at browsing the net, but once you browsed on a 800 pixel wide screen with a fairly complete webbrowser (Opera like the N800 has), you will never want to go back to a smaller screen (320x240 or 640x480 is very annoying), or use an incomplete browser (pocket internet explorer is crap)

YoDude
2007-05-12, 15:54
Re: ...what a beating.

Yup, sounds like your taking a beating but I bet by now you're used to it.
Based on your preamble about something that has nothing to do with the task at hand, it may be you that is beating up on you.

Nokia didn't lie anymore than Microsoft lied about Windows v1.0 ~ 3.0. In both cases a promising new interface was presented.
It took Windows 5 years to achieve anything approaching usability. If you count the N770, Nokia did it in less than than 1.5 and some would argue that they use the 770 just fine.

The point is, there was plenty of web info about the Nokia interface because of the 770. You could have known what you were getting into well before you purchased it and that may very well be your "problem".
You may be misplacing your anger over not doing your homework and are transferring your aggression to the device and this forum.

For help with this issue try this link >> CLICK HERE (http://www.drphil.com/articles/category/6/)

Have a nice day! :)

BTW, I am glad Newbie is shown before the misleading title of this thread on the main page.

Karel Jansens
2007-05-12, 20:03
why require that the time be synched to update the device? That's the problem, not anything microsoft did.

Linux, and I say this as a user for seven years, is like this device, the only difference being Linux is free, and you get what you pay for. Unfortunately, with nokia that is not true, instead you get the full Linux experience *and* you pay for it.

Had I known that the device would be of such general poor quality, (Linux is *not* poor quality) and have the total lack of documentation, along with the unusable software, I would never have bought it. In other words, had Nokia told the truth about the device

1. It is going to take several man days and perhaps man months to get the device up
2. No documentation exists worthy of the name (a single sheet of paper which is 75% graphics is not documentation and the pdf user manual is a total joke, with no instructions how to do anything.
3. No sort of error reporting system exists, the buyer must, on their own, evidently, go onto third party web sites (so long as they have, like Nokia requires, windows genuine advantage installed) and follow some sort of convoluted schedule for getting the basic applications required to troubleshoot the device

I cannot imagine anyone, without virtually unlimited funds and time to fiddle, buying this device.

Now I have to go explain why the thing doesn't work and try to get my money back.

Nokia has proved to me that they are not a quality organization. Essentially, what they have done is what Linux has always done, throw a piece of crap out there and let the users clean it up, again, the only difference being Linux is free.

What a beating.

I understand your main beef (in this thread at least) is that the OS update via Windows XP didn't work. It's probably a bit too late to say this, but I've never used Windows to update my 770 and N800. And I don't have a Linux computer in the house!

I simply downloaded and installed VMWare Player and the most recent Ubuntu image from the site and went ahead updating. I've never encountered any problems with the USB connection (and my system has some weird USB sh*t shoved into it) or with the flasher.

And if you had read through the forum (again: probably a little late for me to say this now), you might have learned that the Windows update route is riddled with slippery spots and that many people advize to either use a live Linux CD or install virtualisation software for flashing a 770 or N800. This invariably works well.

Lastly, you haven't paid for Linux on the N800. Trust me. And if you don't trust me, have a look at prices for comparable Windows systems.

barry99705
2007-05-12, 20:18
What's Windows? :D

Karel Jansens
2007-05-12, 20:24
What's Windows? :D

It's a bit like Linux, only less secure. And it costs money, but you get spyware in return so that's okay then.

Rider
2007-05-12, 20:40
I used a "puppy linux" CD to do the upgrade. Puppy Linux is a small but powerful distribution which works just everywhere. No harddisk needed. You can also boot it from a USB stick. Then I burned the upgrade image and flasher onto another CD-RW. I flashed directly from CD, and everything went very smooth.

Recommended to everyone who does not use Linux on his normal PC.

barry99705
2007-05-13, 04:27
It's a bit like Linux, only less secure. And it costs money, but you get spyware in return so that's okay then.

Sweet!! Free software! :rolleyes: So far I've flashed my 800 with an Ubuntu machine and a G5. No problems with either. The only thing I've ever really found windows good for is games. It also has some pretty descent mapping programs.

Karel Jansens
2007-05-13, 13:35
Sweet!! Free software! :rolleyes: So far I've flashed my 800 with an Ubuntu machine and a G5. No problems with either. The only thing I've ever really found windows good for is games. It also has some pretty descent mapping programs.

And if you have a tablet pc and like handwriting, Windows is your only option... :mad:

JKolstad
2007-05-13, 18:39
that's ok except to get it you have to install "windows genuine advantage" to your operating system, thereby opening your computer up to microsoft.

Show me an article somewhere that says WGA "opens up your computer to Microsoft" in some involuntary way -- I doubt you can.

It sounds much more likely that you have a pirated copy of Windows.

if nokia had told the truth about what was required to use this device

No one's forcing you to update the N800's operating system, and even if you do choose to, you don't have to use Windows to do it.

i never would have bought it, but then they wouldn't have my money unless they used fraud...

If you don't like your device, return it for a refund. If you were cheap and purchased it from somewhere that doesn't offer refunds, sell it on eBay.

For the record, I had a Nokia cell phone once and it worked fine. And my N800 works fine too. I'm not suggesting yours isn't defective -- ALL companies have some finite incidence of shipping lemons -- but you're making the classic mistake of extrapolating from 2 bad Nokia experiences into *millions*.

---Joel

JKolstad
2007-05-13, 18:44
I don't have any of these problems. And I'm not an advanced linux user.

Same here. I starting reading this board to see what an N800 would be like, and only after doing so for a couple of weeks and having some expectations as to what it'd be like did I purchase one. So far I've been quite pleased...

I did find the "Getting Started with the N800" thread quite useful.

IMO, the N800's documentation is spartan but adequate for the "basic functionality" that the device is sold for -- Internet connectivity, e-mail, and a bit of multimedia. Anything beyond that heads rapidly into the "advanced user" arena, where on pretty much *all* platforms one is expected to be able to do a little digging to find information.

---Joel

geneven
2007-05-13, 19:24
It seems as if some people are saying that one shouldn't use a Windows computer to update the N800.

Nokia said that you can use a Windows computer to update the N800, so I think that a user is entitled to believe that is true.

Someone said that this user isn't forced to update his N800. True, especially if he wants a computer that crashes and freezes all the time, as mine did before I flashed it.

The implication seems to be made that everyone should have to have a Linux computer to upgrade the N800 with. If so, that should have been made part of the system requirements. It wasn't. My main computer (the one I'm typing on now) is a Linux computer, but I have never used it to reflash the N800, which I have had to do at least 6 times. Oh, I wasn't forced to do it; I could have sent it back to Nokia instead, since it was totally inoperable, but since I used Windows to flash it, it has worked great.

The style seems to be to meet hostile statements about the N800 with hostile statements about Windows. I don't see how that benefits anyone or how it proves anything. When mud slinging, everyone participating gets dirty.

But if someone will explain to me how I was mistaken to use Windows to reflash my N800, please do. My N800 works great and does everything I want to do with it.

jpj
2007-05-13, 20:07
Nobody who's read my diatribes about Nokia service could accuse me of being a fanboy. But having said that, I've followed the documented Windows-based flash procedure twice to obtain OS upgrades. I've also reflashed the kernel with the SDHC patches. Everything has worked exactly as advertised. And I've been relatively adventurous with trying out new apps and hacks, with no fatal side effects so far.

I understand this is little consolation to those who experiences have differed, but I think it's inaccurate to convey the impression that the entire platform is fraught with peril. At least not to the extent that I would want to scare potential users away. This is a great little device. Of course it could be better, and I'm sure many of the enhancements I'd like will have to wait for the next generation. But in the meanwhile, I take it nearly everywhere I go, and keep finding new uses. And this is from a guy who likes to travel light.

YoDude
2007-05-13, 20:11
Windows works fine to reflash the N800...

End of report.


The Windows problems I believe were purported by the original poster and not as retorts.

I maintain that the dude has other issues that pre-existed. :)


BTW...

...It sounds much more likely that you have a pirated copy of Windows.

^ this makes the most sence.

Texrat
2007-05-14, 02:13
The problem with this thread began with the initial hostility. I don't know what kind of reactions people are looking for when they start off that way, other than responses in kind.

It's kind of sad to see us talking past each other though. Geneven is correct that Windows-based updating is advertised and made available-- but by the same token, the points made regarding updating via Linux are equally valid. So the net sum = 0.

It was good (to me) however to see JKolstad's remark about the common mistake of extrapolating one experience to assume many. I can see both sides though, as much as I harp from my angle. It's hard for an individual to look beyond his personal experience and he assumes his bubble represents the world. On the other hand, it's difficult for a community to suffer that very long.

Umm... if I had a point I forgot it. Never mind. :p

TA-t3
2007-05-14, 09:32
The OP's problem seems to me to be that he didn't bother to carefully read and follow Nokia's upgrade instructions. They are not difficult, and there are only about five or six steps or so if I remember correctly. In that order or magnitude, at least.
To be fair, lots of people seem to have the tendency to skip seemingly (to them) unimportant points, like where in the sequence you're supposed to plug in the AC adaptor.. (or they skip that part entirely). And it doesn't work, and they get a bit angry.

speculatrix
2007-05-14, 11:07
(this might seem slightly off-topic but stay with me).

I bought a guitar a little while ago, and I accessorized it with a nice carrying case. I tried it out in the shop and it seemed fine, the salesman demonstrated it. However, when I got home, I couldn't make it work properly, instead of nice music all I got was discordant sounds, no music at all! There were virtually no instructions with it, apart from general care... I've played with it for a few hours and still no luck.

Never having owned a guitar before, I asked a friend and he says I should buy a book about learning to play, and would probably need to take expensive lessons if I want to become any good at it.

Well, I was pretty annoyed, I thought the price of the guitar was all inclusive! I went back to the shop, had to argue with the salesman and eventually got a refund - he treated me like an idiot!

~~ just change "guitar" to "computer" and this is a common theme across the world, change it to "nokia n800" and you get the original post.

Rider
2007-05-14, 11:31
Actually, when I bought the N800, I already had done some reading. So I was not too surprised about the "maintanance" I had to do when it came.

The first day I was reading across the internet, tried this and that, installed this and that SW. Fortunately, the first thing I did was reflashing. Read somewhere to do flashing first before any other configuration or installation.

While this was all fun to me, and part of the first N800 experience, I thought that for a real newbie without much knowledges, this gadget would certainly not be the right thing to buy. Just imagine, there was no handbook, just a paper how to insert the battery and how to connect to internet.

So would I recommend the N800 to my computer illiterate neighbour? Certainly not.

Would I recommend it to my hacker friends? Certainly yes!

speculatrix
2007-05-14, 11:42
Fortunately, the first thing I did was reflashing. Read somewhere to do flashing first before any other configuration or installation.


consider windows before XP service pack 2 - no firewall by default, so most people connecting up their shiny new computer to the internet would be 0wned within minutes!

the lesson here is that computers of most types are simply unsuitable for use by noobs without supervision by competent person!

barry99705
2007-05-14, 16:43
Actually, when I bought the N800, I already had done some reading. So I was not too surprised about the "maintanance" I had to do when it came.

The first day I was reading across the internet, tried this and that, installed this and that SW. Fortunately, the first thing I did was reflashing. Read somewhere to do flashing first before any other configuration or installation.

While this was all fun to me, and part of the first N800 experience, I thought that for a real newbie without much knowledges, this gadget would certainly not be the right thing to buy. Just imagine, there was no handbook, just a paper how to insert the battery and how to connect to internet.

So would I recommend the N800 to my computer illiterate neighbour? Certainly not.

Would I recommend it to my hacker friends? Certainly yes!


I wouldn't recommend any computer to my computer illiterate neighbor.

Karel Jansens
2007-05-14, 16:54
I wouldn't recommend any computer to my computer illiterate neighbor.

Well... maybe a Mac -- without its power plug.

cdstrand
2007-05-14, 18:49
first, the title is not misleading. the hardware doesn't work. when people buy something they should have an expectation it will work, and if it doesn't work, have some sort of way, in documentation, to figure out what is wrong with it.

Expending resources on the trivial, like making sure the clock on the host computer is synched is one of, if not the single, stupiest thing i have ever seen a program attempt, it has nothing whatever to do with the application, it's just something some incompetent put in the system because he couldn't write the code he needed to write to make the device work.

Second, i've used linux for seven years, i have installed every redhat between release six and nine, debian and ubuntu each of which had problems but, as noted, each of which cost me not one dime. i knew that i was getting into when i got into it, though, to be honest, on many occasions the lack of documentation on linux caused problems. that said it ran and still runs and i got it up.

this is a device bought in a store for a retail price, and, to be perfectly honest it is a piece of junk. there is no documentation (for $400 a manual would be nice) and no customer for any product ought to be obliged to spend any effort whatever much less the effort you seem to think is normal for customers. i'd dare say if you bought a car which didn't run and gave you an error message "the car isn't running" and everyone thought you ought to have to learn out to be a mechanic to use it, you might be a little put off...or your toaster, or a radio, or a computer.

it's shoddy workmanship, poorly documented with limited support (nokia has never acknowledged the email i sent requresting support, but sent a nice customer survey form, asking what i thought of their non-existant customer service).

perhaps my experience, for those of you who had that comment, will be a part of the "homework" others who might expect a device which works when they buy this (without a couple of hundred hours personal research....can't you see apple expecting this with ipods?) can have the benefit of my experience. i bought the device, it didn't work, included with what i bought there is nothing which will help troubleshoot the problem, and nokia has no available resources to help get a defective device working, or even identify the problem.

their customer service email (as i quoted later, i got a message from them as soon as i got off this forum, what a coincidence) has technical issues (why am i not surprised. According to them you may experience "longer than normal" waiting times for their phone support, and the forum they listed in the documentation as a place to go for help is full of folks who are defensive about their purchase (and one nokia employee, evidently if that fellow gave accurate info) and have no idea either what may be wrong. i did learn, though, that my problem seems to be unique, and no one else seems on this forum seems to have had the same problem, though no resources are available to exactly identify what is wrong.

if someone asked me (and people do), i'll tell them to avoid nokia equipment, and i'll have this experience to point to so that they will know why i make i am making the recommendation.

cdstrand
2007-05-14, 19:07
(this might seem slightly off-topic but stay with me).

I bought a guitar a little while ago, and I accessorized it with a nice carrying case. I tried it out in the shop and it seemed fine, the salesman demonstrated it. However, when I got home, I couldn't make it work properly, instead of nice music all I got was discordant sounds, no music at all! There were virtually no instructions with it, apart from general care... I've played with it for a few hours and still no luck.

Never having owned a guitar before, I asked a friend and he says I should buy a book about learning to play, and would probably need to take expensive lessons if I want to become any good at it.

Well, I was pretty annoyed, I thought the price of the guitar was all inclusive! I went back to the shop, had to argue with the salesman and eventually got a refund - he treated me like an idiot!

~~ just change "guitar" to "computer" and this is a common theme across the world, change it to "nokia n800" and you get the original post.

this is one of the sillier things i read...just change "ipod" for guitar and you will have a similar example.

if your guitar made no noise at all (an "internet tablet" which doesn't connect to the internet would seem to be closer to what my experience with the n800 has been) that would be somewhat similar, but an internet tablet is not a guitar, it should connect to the internet without any problem whatever, just like an ipod should play music, right out of the box.

coming to a forum of "fans" of a device is a mistake.

a couple of other comments i would like to make as i paged through this thread.

my copy of windows, like almost everyone else's, came on my computer, before there was anything like "windows genuine advantage", so i am sort of stuck with it, unless i want to go through the effort to install linux on another computer (i don't).

second, that is not the main issue, the main issue is that the n800 doesn't work. it won't connect to the internet, it says it is connected, it sends data (according to it) but the two routers i have administrative priveleges on don't see it, and the free networks and other secured networks i tried to get on all have the same symptoms. i thought flashing the operating system (which i did, finally, after being very inconvenienced) had no effect on the problem at all, the same symptoms recur.

the device, in short, doesn't seem to work, now i have to drive 50 miles to return it.

it's a beating, and everyone who thinks this device ought to work, whether they know linux or not, is making, from my experience a mistake buying one.

i'd have a lot more sympathy for you all if someone at the comp usa had told me that this thing was going to take dozens, if not hundreds, of manhours to get working, in addition to the $400 i already spent.

last, the issue i have with the damned thing not synching up with their tool on my computer is that making sure the time was synched on my computer is totally unecessary for the proper working of the application. Updating the operating system has nothing to do with what some bozo at microsoft time server thinks the time is.

Rider
2007-05-14, 19:12
the device, in short, doesn't seem to work, now i have to drive 50 miles to return it.

It's not "the" device, it's "your" device.

Ours does work very well. So stop wining, return it and get your money back.

cdstrand
2007-05-14, 20:21
the device, in short, doesn't seem to work, now i have to drive 50 miles to return it.

It's not "the" device, it's "your" device.

Ours does work very well. So stop wining, return it and get your money back.

actually "the", in english, is a definite article, it refers, therefore, to one specific device.

if i can get my money back i'll be happier, but that doesn't change anything at all. nokia, rather than allocate the resources to provide customer service, listed this forum as a resource. "change the operating system on your computer" isn't really helpful, though from what i have read here why that is so probablyisn't apparent to most of the authors here.

also "my device works fine" isn't really helpful when someone has a problem. venting against windows because the author of the software written for this device wrote a particular routine isn't helpful. windows is windows, but, bill gates nor microsoft nor anyone at microsoft wrote the routine which installs this software on the nokia n800, i'd wager. i do know that, from time to time, i do install software on all of my microsoft boxes, and this is the first time i've run across anything that stupid.

in fact, while nokia lists this forum as some sort of replacement for actual customer service (which is what i thought it was and what nokia represents it as in the limited literature they provided with the device) that isn't what it is either. given nokia's other misrepresentations that isn't a surprise.

Texrat
2007-05-14, 20:26
first, the title is not misleading. the hardware doesn't work.

What hardware? Yours? Everyone's?

It would sure be nice to avoid the hyperbole...

actually "the", in english, is a definite article, it refers, therefore, to one specific device.

Um-- not exactly.

You're omitting one important factor: context. You're using "the" in conjunction with overly broad statements. Retreating to a specific definition of the article doesn't excuse you from the error.

Shoot a wide load, and you're gonna get dumped on in return. Specifics are sweet. They tend to limit the volleys to targets.

cdstrand
2007-05-14, 20:38
What hardware? Yours? Everyone's?

It would sure be nice to avoid the hyperbole...



Um-- not exactly.

You're omitting one important factor: context. You're using "the" in conjunction with overly broad statements. Retreating to a specific definition of the article doesn't excuse you from the error.

Shoot a wide load, and you're gonna get dumped on in return. Specifics are sweet. They tend to limit the volleys to targets.

my dear illiterate friend, the device doesn't work means what it says, just like "internet tablet" and "connect to the internet using wifi" each has a meaning. anyone reading this thread can decide for themselves what i wrote, no need to excuse me at all.

the device doesn't work. it's a piece of crap because not only does it not work, but nokia doesn't provide any support for the n800 worthy of the name.

Texrat
2007-05-14, 20:44
Lol... he called me illiterate. That's one for the record books.

I stand by my accurate assessment, O Malcontented One: your remarks are overly broad. Your indictments scatter all over the map. You don't speak for the majority.

I'll agree that the support needs vast improvements, but only a truly illiterate person would agree that your grammar is appropriate. But blather as you will. We'll see how successful you are at it, eh? Meanwhile I'll keep using my fully-functioning N800.

cdstrand
2007-05-14, 21:29
Lol... he called me illiterate. That's one for the record books.

I'll agree that the support needs vast improvements, but only a truly illiterate person would agree that your grammar is appropriate. But blather as you will. We'll see how successful you are at it, eh? Meanwhile I'll keep using my fully-functioning N800.

actually my grammar is impeccable. and surely i'm not the first to note your obvious deficiencies.

successful? at what? My only intention, at this point, is to take this piece of crap back for refund, if possible (and leave you groupies to your grop).

YoDude
2007-05-14, 21:55
actually "the", in english, is a definite article, it refers, therefore, to one specific device...

...also "my device works fine" isn't really helpful when someone has a problem.


Dig upon "my device works fine" notice it wasn't "the device works fine". :)



...in fact, while nokia lists this forum as some sort of replacement for actual customer service (which is what i thought it was and what nokia represents it as in the limited literature they provided with the device) that isn't what it is either. given nokia's other misrepresentations that isn't a surprise.

This forum (or should I say "the forum" ;) ) is a resource. It is not a call center or on-line help desk. Had you used this resource by reading posts that were relevant to your problem you would have found plenty of "N800 can't connect" or "problems using WiFi" threads. Perhaps your issue would have been handled better had you posted in one of those threads instead of starting a new, INACCURATELY titled thread.

From what was/has been posted so far; it sounds like you have a connectivity issue and you blame it on hardware because you had hardware issues before with a Nokia product???
Your thread title appears on this (the?) forum's main page and suggests that this is another N800 hardware problem. I wasn't aware of many hardware problems other than the touch screen issue on some of the first units released. However, a casual viewer may be misled by your choice of words.

Reading is fundamental but context means everything.

Texrat
2007-05-14, 22:30
context means everything

Now THAT really is impeccable. Worthy of framing, and words to live by... as opposed to the misguided, pretentious blather. ;)

euchreprof
2007-05-14, 23:29
Now THAT really is impeccable. Worthy of framing, and words to live by... as opposed to the misguided, pretentious blather. ;)


Mr. abuser is at it again with the newbies I see. He is alwyas the one who fuels the fire while thinking he is intelligent and mature... he never knows when to quit... in TOTAL DENIAL... except when he got put in his place by this newbie.

YoDude
2007-05-15, 00:02
Mr. abuser is at it again with the newbies I see. He is alwyas the one who fuels the fire while thinking he is intelligent and mature... he never knows when to quit... in TOTAL DENIAL... except when he got put in his place by this newbie.



Correction... "The" newbie. :D

BTW, I responded to this thread because of the tone and generalizations used by the OP. I have been frustrated by some of the same issues but every time I am about to give up on it, I learn something new in this forum that redeems the dang thing for another 2 or 3 weeks. (If I was to rant on re-flashing, I would have gone off about my initial frustration with the re-flash directions referring to a "home" key. I couldn't find in the scant documentation provided by Nokia a mention of the "Home" key let alone a simple illustration pointing it out.)

In any event the ideas and information in this forum usually are free flowing and not encumbered by off topic or inaccurate banter. I truly wish the best for the OP with "the" device and believe that if he had used another approach this forum would have been as useful to him as it has been for me.

What was the purpose of your post?

klohmann
2007-05-15, 00:10
Well, in my case, I've had two 770's (I wore out the screen on the first one) and I just upgraded to an 800. No major complaints, all things considered.

Texrat
2007-05-15, 00:15
BTW, I responded to this thread because of the tone and generalizations used by the OP.

Bingo. Same here.

I have zero problems, personally or otherwise, with people expressing frustration over a bad experience. That is well within everyone's rights (I won't get into the deeper issue of free speech in private fora... lol).

The problems occur when posters are antagonistic, ill-tempered, hyperbolic or willfully vague. I don't understand what they hope to accomplish with such ranting. Surely not a solution! If it's just venting, fine- spew and move on. But don't defend such an absurd approach further! Cripes, that's disingenuous beyond belief.

Rank complainers could learn from EwanG's example. He expressed righteous anger and disappointment, but he also stuck to facts and methodically described his experiences for everyone here. He NEVER succumbed to the juvenile baiting that's been going on lately. Nokia may have lost him as a customer, but the company had every opportunity to do right by him based on his diligence so he is well within his rights.

Now, back to the useless "contributions" of the trolls. ;)

euchreprof
2007-05-15, 00:27
Bingo. Same here.

I have zero problems, personally or otherwise, with people expressing frustration over a bad experience. That is well within everyone's rights (I won't get into the deeper issue of free speech in private fora... lol).

The problems occur when posters are antagonistic, ill-tempered, hyperbolic or willfully vague. I don't understand what they hope to accomplish with such ranting. Surely not a solution! If it's just venting, fine- spew and move on. But don't defend such an absurd approach further! Cripes, that's disingenuous beyond belief.

Rank complainers could learn from EwanG's example. He expressed righteous anger and disappointment, but he also stuck to facts and methodically described his experiences for everyone here. He NEVER succumbed to the juvenile baiting that's been going on lately. Nokia may have lost him as a customer, but the company had every opportunity to do right by him based on his diligence so he is well within his rights.

Now, back to the useless "contributions" of the trolls. ;)



Guess what Texrat... everytime you start bashing the newbie and fueling the fire on here while pretending to be a mature and intelligent man... I am going to point out what you are really doing. I get a kick out of your long winded TOTAL DENIAL posts anyhow. It's as simple as that. You want to bash new people then I will be right behind you... lay off the newbies and I will mind my own business and quietly suffer reading your posts with the smilies at the end.

Arjun
2007-05-15, 00:32
I think that some people (there sure are enough of them) who appear frequently in this Forum. Their main reason for being here is, lamenting about some or the other problems without really trying to find the solution to it. As of today, I am using the same old Nokia 770 IT. It simply works well for me. I know well that there are so many others who have had a lot of problem with it. But honestly they never lamented so much as someone here did.

Now, it is a fact that there are many people who own the latest Nokia N800, which of course is more updated, faster and better in many ways than the Nokia 770. This too, has its own problems and issues. But these problems and issues are the ones that can be solved. The reason for the existence of this Forum is the exchange of ideas, troubleshooting steps, clues, even hacks to make these two Internet Tablets work the way we want them to work.

Nokia simply gave us this Hardware with its basic OS, now it is up to us to make it work the way we want to. I don’t see the complainer ever trying to ask as to how he can get network connectivity or how he could make it work better. So without doing that he decided to flash it with the latest OS hoping that it will make the Device work. Unfortunately the way his computer is setup or assembled does not allow him that option.

I have a 7-year-old, P3 computer installed with Windows 2000 SP4. When I first tried to update the Nokia OS on the 770 it did it easily. But to update the final Official OS, I had to update my computer first. How difficult is this? How come so many Computer experts, Linux experts and all the great people find it difficult to do this?

As for Windows Genuine Advantage Utility, my Computer is 7 years old so is the Windows 2000 that is installed on it and yet I do not have the issue that this gentleman is facing. No time issues or anything as such. How come the Genuine Advantage thingy works for me? I think there is something more rotten in the state of Denmark.

euchreprof
2007-05-15, 00:45
I think that some people (there sure are enough of them) who appear frequently in this Forum. Their main reason for being here is, lamenting about some or the other problems without really trying to find the solution to their problem. As of today I am using the same old Nokia 770 IT. It simply works well for me. I know well that there are so many others who have had a lot of problem with it. But honestly they never lamented so mush as someone here did. Now, it is a fact that there are so many people who own the latest Nokia N800, which of course is more updated, faster and better in many ways than the Nokia 770. This too, has its own problems and issues. But these problems and issues are the ones that can be solved. The reason for the existence of this Forum is the exchange of ideas, troubleshooting steps, clues, even hacks to make these two Internet Tablets work the way we want them to work.

Nokia simply gave us this Hardware with its basic OS, now it is up to us to make it work the way we want to. I don’t see the complainer ever trying to ask as to how he can get network connectivity or how he could make it work better. So without doing that he decided to flash it with the latest OS hoping that it will make the Device work. Unfortunately the way his computer is setup or assembled does not allow him that option.

I have a 7-year-old P3 computer installed with Windows 2000 SP4. When I first tried to update the Nokia OS on the 770 it did it easily. But to update the final Official OS, I had to update my computer first. How difficult is this? How come so many Computer experts, Linux experts and all the great people find it difficult to do this?
As for Windows genuine Advantage Utility, my Computer is 7 years old so is the Windows 2000 that is installed on it and yet I do not have the issue that this gentleman is facing. No time issues or anything as such. How come the Genuine Advantage thingy works for me? I think there is something more rotten in the state of Denmark.


I can understand the guys frustration who started this post... and I can understand everything you said here... you might even be correct on the final statement... perhaps it is just a guy messing with everyone... but maybe not... I don't know for sure... but I do know you didn't use 1 putdown word in your answers... Texrat would have used 5-6 putdown words in a post this large... the man is clearly an educated guy but emotinally unstable and really really annoying when he tries to stir the pot on here by attacking the single newbie knowing everyone is gonna go on his side. Texrat = Newbie Bully and has nothing intelligent to add to these type of conversations althought he pretends like he does and in his own mind he actually believes he does.

euchreprof
2007-05-15, 02:04
TEXRATS JUST SENT ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE BELOW... ENOUGH SAID...


I'm ignoring you publicly because you have nothing worth reading, but I will tell you this: if you persist in stalking my posts, I will take action. Rest assured if it comes down to you or me, it will be your account banned.

So make your choice right now: grow up and act responsibly, or soon find yourself gone. I don't pretend to speak for Reggie, but if you want to test my assumption, be my guest.

I don't expect you to grasp the difference between what I post (or my motives) and what you mistakenly perceive. Your inability is obvious by now. That being the case, you'd be best off avoiding further embarassment and banning by just avoiding my posts. Put me on ignore, as I have you, and maybe you'll be a little happier... unless you truly are the sociopath you present yourself to be.

Think about it. Try.

euchreprof
2007-05-15, 02:08
Now i am replying to Texrats abusive private message... LLOLLOLOLOLOLOL... like i said if u attack the newbies expect to be exposed by me what you are truely doing... if you stop it then u r safe. Enough Said.

jnack95
2007-05-15, 02:28
I think maybe Nokia should not refer to this website AT ALL in their literature or website in order to avoid complaints. This is not a COMPLAINT website...please call Nokia and complain/whine to them. If you have a technical questions, post the question...you don't even have to be nice, just don't be an *** and you may or not get the answer that suits you. This is a RESOURCE base, not a complaint forum. Maybe too difficult of a concept for some to handle....but it's sometimes entertaining enough... although by the end of reading this crap I feel like I'm back in 3rd grade (which is fun too). Flame on.

mobiledivide
2007-05-15, 03:00
As the N800 trickles into the mass market this forum, previously a peaceful place where one could seek advice on how to fix problems etc, is going to become like the rest of the internet forums filled with trash and spam and which I (mostly) try to ignore. I think that the mod needs to start policing users little heavier in order to keep these flamers out and the quality high. At the very least create a "Complaints and Rants" subforum to stick all this stuff into.

Texrat
2007-05-15, 03:03
Look at it this way: out of almost 7000 members, so far there are a mere handful of troublemakers. That's really not so bad. ;)

EDIT: there are official channels for providing feedback to Nokia. Here's one--

http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/

Milhouse
2007-05-15, 03:27
Now i am replying to Texrats abusive private message... LLOLLOLOLOLOLOL... like i said if u attack the newbies expect to be exposed by me what you are truely doing... if you stop it then u r safe. Enough Said.

Give it a rest dude, you're just embarrassing yourself.

YoDude
2007-05-15, 03:33
Now i am replying to Texrats abusive private message... LLOLLOLOLOLOLOL... like i said if u attack the newbies expect to be exposed by me what you are truely doing... if you stop it then u r safe. Enough Said.


I'll ask you again in case you didn't see it the first time. What was your original purpose for posting in this thread?

If it was just to bait another member over something unrelated you certainly are taking the fun out of my participation in this forum.

I apologize to all for taking this off topic but I am at a loss in determining what value posts like that (or even this one) have in any thread.

***

To the original poster: I hope you can get your money back because the N800 sounds like it wasn't what you expected.
BTW, you never really made clear what you expected and why though.

As for the time sync; Nokia obviously wants to keep track of who downloads their proprietary code. They ask for the mac addy don't they? A time check sum may be boiler plate security that they use for all their firmware installers.

Most OEM's frown on "rolling back" to previous versions that may contain "holes" that they have closed in subsequent versions.

euchreprof
2007-05-15, 03:55
Give it a rest dude, you're just embarrassing yourself.


And having fun just like you did with SAP. The guy is cracking and I think it's funny... he deserves it though cuz he likes to mix it up but when someone bigger comes to play he runs like a coward. Why was it ok for you to enjoy your torture of SAP and I can't enjoy a Texrat meltdown?

Milhouse
2007-05-15, 03:56
As for the time sync; Nokia obviously wants to keep track of who downloads their proprietary code. They ask for the mac addy don't they? A time check sum may be boiler plate security that they use for all their firmware installers.


Or it may be that the Nokia software accesses a secure server, and to avoid expired (or not yet valid) certificate issues the software probably attempts to ensure the local time is reasonably up to date. I personally see nothing wrong in this and I'm at a loss as to why having an accuate time on the users PC is a problem, or even a big deal. Or have I missed something? I don't recall the Nokia updater hasseling me to sync time on my install of XP - but then it was already up to date...

The fact that a patch is needed on Windows to fix DST and that this requires - shock horror - a legally licenced version of Windows before it will install is not Nokias problem. For all we know, the time sync issue could be a requirement of the .net framework whenever it establishes a secure connection and it recognises the local time is way out of whack. Whatever the reason for the time sync issue, the fact the OP is unable to install a patch from Microsoft is *not* Nokias problem - the OP should blame the correct guily party and blame Microsoft (or himself, for not having a licenced copy of Windows...)



It's disappointing to see how this thread has turned out, but not really surprising. If the OP had been a little more constructive in his complaints the reception would have been more sympathetic, but to come on this forum and blame Nokia and the device for all his problems is hardly the wisest thing to do particularly when the blame for some of those problems almost certainly lie elsewhere.

Everyone on this forum wants to help other IT users resolve their issues, but if users just come here to whine rather than address the issues then they should expect a less than polite reception.

What a beating. :(

Milhouse
2007-05-15, 03:59
And having fun just like you did with SAP. The guy is cracking and I think it's funny... he deserves it though cuz he likes to mix it up but when someone bigger comes to play he runs like a coward. Why was it ok for you to enjoy your torture of SAP and I can't enjoy a Texrat meltdown?

Nobody "tortured" Sapporobaby, and you're not torturing Texrat. You're beginning to post in the same style and thus appear much like Sapporobaby however, which is quite depressing for us all.

euchreprof
2007-05-15, 04:01
Everyone on this forum wants to help other IT users resolve their issues, but if users just come here to whine rather than address the issues then they should expect a less than polite reception.

What a beating. :(



OMG Milhouse who whines more than you when it comes to the way Nokia operates... I wouldn;t know where to begin... I use windows for 20 years... i reformat my hard drive minimum 2 times per year for 20 years = 40 times... it used to take 2 hours to reformat and insall all the stuff... now it's like 16 hours... you have 1 automatic reboot and you on on here posting about it and threatening Nokia that your money will go elsewhere next time if this doesn't get corrected. Most of the time your posts are a good read though I give you that BUT U DO WHINE QUITE A BIT!

euchreprof
2007-05-15, 04:04
Nobody "tortured" Sapporobaby, and you're not torturing Texrat. You're beginning to post in the same style and thus appear much like Sapporobaby however, which is quite depressing for us all.

Texrat and U tortured SAP. If you deny this then you are in the same denial as he is. you knew he was BSing and instead of letting it go you hammered him into submission... just like i am doing to Texrat. But if Texrat stops being a newbie basher I will not bother him... he never stops once he gets on these types of threads and neither did u on SAP.

Milhouse
2007-05-15, 04:06
OMG Milhouse who whines more than you when it comes to the way Nokia operates... I wouldn;t know where to begin... I use windows for 20 years... i reformat my hard drive minimum 2 times per year for 20 years = 40 times... it used to take 2 hours to reformat and insall all the stuff... now it's like 16 hours... you have 1 automatic reboot and you on on here posting about it and threatening Nokia that your money will go elsewhere next time if this doesn't get corrected. Most of the time your posts are a good read though I give you that BUT U DO WHINE QUITE A BIT!

I think you have me confused with someone else!

What are you blathering on about? (As if I cared...)

EDIT: Adding quote for context - can't keep up with all these replies... :)

Milhouse
2007-05-15, 04:10
I only asked Sap one question - the fact he went off the deep end wasn't my problem, and I didn't push him nor did I goad his reaction. I merely asked him a straight question which only required a straight answer. No "LOOOOOLLLL" bullsh1t, no name calling, no derogatory references - just a straight question. I didn't "hammer him into submission", and I very much doubt you'll have much success with Texrat.

Really, this sort of discussion is not worthy of this forum. If you want to take your internet thug attitude out on someone, please do it elsewhere.

euchreprof
2007-05-15, 04:12
I think you have me confused with someone else!

What are you blathering on about? (As if I cared...)


Well... you sent me a private email laughing about SAP having a meltdown. You forgot that? These are facts man... just cuz I did "LLOLOLOLOL" publically after getting a meltdown email from Texrat doesn't give u the right to give me the "mature speech" now Milhouse... not after we exchanged 5 emails each with u telling me how u did a google search on SAP and found out his real name and how funny it all was to you... now you are speaking in Texrat mentality. You & Texrat bullied him off this board no question about it AND YOU LOVED IT... fine I too am the same like you. We are practically brothers man and don;t you think otherwise.

euchreprof
2007-05-15, 04:13
I only asked Sap one question - the fact he went off the deep end wasn't my problem, and I didn't push him nor did I goad his reaction. I merely asked him a straight question which only required a straight answer. No "LOOOOOLLLL" bullsh1t, no name calling, no derogatory references - just a straight question. I didn't "hammer him into submission", and I very much doubt you'll have much success with Texrat.

Really, this sort of discussion is not worthy of this forum. If you want to take your internet thug attitude out on someone, please do it elsewhere.


Textra posts towards me have 5-6 name calling insults each... don;t tell me you are going to defend yourself with his mentality. Tell texrat to stop jumping on the bandwagon to insult the frustrated newbies and I willnever say another word about it.

Milhouse
2007-05-15, 04:20
Well... you sent me a private email laughing about SAP having a meltdown. You forgot that?

Given what was written, I have no issues of remorse - it's not my responsibility what grown adults write in public forums and I merely laughed at a lame attempt to use a multi-handle to post another rant. Anything I wrote to you in a private message is hardly evidence of me publicly goading Sap, now is it?

As for what you wrote about formatting a hard disk - you totally lost me there.

This is so seriously going OT...

euchreprof
2007-05-15, 04:26
Given what was written, I have no issues of remorse - it's not my responsibility what grown adults write in public forums and I merely laughed at a lame attempt to use a multi-handle to post another rant. Anything I wrote to you in a private message is hardly evidence of me publicly goading Sap, now is it?

As for what you wrote about formatting a hard disk - you totally lost me there.

This is so seriously going OT...



Forget it man you can't compete with me. I use facts and you pretend you weren;t publically embarrassing SAP and LOVING IT... when he tried to sell his Nokia N800 you were still gloating over the beating u did give him PUBLICALLY! Guess what though... u r weak to me for denying this stuff and running away from these facts.

Reggie
2007-05-15, 04:27
It's pity that another thread needs to be locked again.

Just to remind everyone, please remain on topic. Personal attacks are against the site's policies. Please don't force me to start banning members and IPs.

Thanks for understanding.