Alien Dalvik, run android apps on non android phones (Like N900) [Archive] - maemo.org

mece

2011-02-08, 07:58

Bumped into this on twitter:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/myriad-announces-alien-dalvik-enables-android-apps-to-run-on-non-android-phones-115540194.html
http://www.myriadgroup.com/Media-Centre/News/Myriad-Announces-Alien%20Dalvik-Enables-Android-Apps-to-Run-on-Non-Android-Phones.aspx <- original source

FTFA:
Myriad Alien Dalvik will be commercially available later this year on the MeeGo platform. Other platform support will be announced in the coming months. Alien Dalvik will be demonstrated for the first time on the Nokia N900 at this year’s Mobile World Congress in Barcelona from February 14th-17th at the Myriad hospitality suite located at The Avenue, Stand AV91.
Quite interesting :)

E: There's a video too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWEyKjwk2g
E2: A little bit more information can be found in this pdf: http://www.myriadgroup.com/Myriad/Device-Manufacturers/Android-solutions/~/media/D42B513FB5114FF2B4CA13A2D8CE313E.ashx (thanks toxaris)

sansar95

2011-02-08, 08:04

Bumped into this on twitter:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/myriad-announces-alien-dalvik-enables-android-apps-to-run-on-non-android-phones-115540194.html

Quite interesting :)

Great news !!!

If truly possible we can run FRING, NIMBUZZ and many more and there will be no complaint for application like i mentioned above for maemo5

Can we directly install or need to changed to .deb

Thanks for such news

Creamy Goodness

2011-02-08, 08:04

well that picture of an n900 better not be an accident, like those guys that made skyfire :)

Switch_

2011-02-08, 08:06

Now that's what I'm talking about, cross platform application availability!

mece

2011-02-08, 08:08

I'm not sure it's for Maemo though. Perhaps demoed with MeeGo on N900. We'll see. But the news is quite exciting regardless.

Here's the original source: http://www.myriadgroup.com/Media-Centre/News/Myriad-Announces-Alien%20Dalvik-Enables-Android-Apps-to-Run-on-Non-Android-Phones.aspx

Dancairo

2011-02-08, 08:11

Looks very interesting, the only thing that worries me is that if it's going to be demoed on the N900, does that mean we'll still be waiting for a release a year later and have a thread with thousands of replies screaming "where's my dalvik"?

maluka

2011-02-08, 08:20

So it will be like a VM inside a VM

mece

2011-02-08, 08:22

So it will be like a VM inside a VM

Why? I don't think the VM needs a VM, It is already a VM.
It's just rewritten to fit I guess.

E: The video claims it's just as fast

maluka

2011-02-08, 08:26

Why? I don't think the VM needs a VM, It is already VM.
It's just rewritten to fit I guess.

Lets hope so. :D

Dancairo

2011-02-08, 08:38

toxaris

2011-02-08, 08:41

Hmm, as I understand it you have to get hold of the Android package and repack/port it with Alien Dalvik and then you can install it on N900. And lets hope you dont need the source.

I hope the application wont cost a fortune. Eather way I guess ported Android apps for N900 will start to popup, hopefully.

mece

2011-02-08, 08:41

The youtube clip shows it running on maemo...I really don't want to get my hopes too high but I just can't help it :o

Yes, you're right. I hadn't seen the video I wrote that. I'm cautiously hopeful now :)

videohese

2011-02-08, 08:42

OMFG! :) Great news indeed! Thanks for the info-pick Mece \o/

festivalnut

2011-02-08, 08:56

not that i would encourage piracy on here, but anyone at the onference fancy swiping the demo model and reverse engineering so we actually see it on maemo rather than meego?

toxaris

2011-02-08, 08:56

Dancairo

2011-02-08, 08:57

I thought why not ask them, so I've emailed and pointed them to this thread...contents of email:-

Dear Sir/Madam

Your announcement about Alien Dalvik has caused quite a stir on the talk.maemo forum this morning:- http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=69492
I notice that the youtube demo shows Alien Dalvik running in maemo on the N900 and I'd like to ask if you can confirm that it will be made available for this platform. I understand that you may be unwilling to confirm anything at this time but an indication of your intent would create a lot of goodwill toward you from all the users of the N900.

Thank you for your time

Sincerely

Dan *********

I'll let you know if I get a reponse

ysss

2011-02-08, 08:58

Hmmm... the longer MeeGo gets delayed, the more likely they'll release this on maemo? XD

Stskeeps

2011-02-08, 09:01

Check last page in this pdf:
http://www.myriadgroup.com/Myriad/Device-Manufacturers/Android-solutions/~/media/D42B513FB5114FF2B4CA13A2D8CE313E.ashx
Says it will run on MeeGo as the first paltform.
Wounder if they talk Maemo or MeeGo. Lets hope for both.

Now this is interesting:

"Most Android applications can run unmodified as
the vast majority of Android APIs are supported and
tight integration with the QT framework leads to a
seamless user experience."

They use Qt as backend.

Dancairo

2011-02-08, 09:09

Now this is interesting:

"Most Android applications can run unmodified as
the vast majority of Android APIs are supported and
tight integration with the QT framework leads to a
seamless user experience."

They use Qt as backend.

and this from the same page...

First implemented on the Meego/Maemo platform,
Myriad Alien Dalvik can support other platforms, to
be developed depending on customers needs

NOMOS

2011-02-08, 09:09

Holy Sh*t. This is some "catalysing an ecosystem"... Holy Sh*t

ejasmudar

2011-02-08, 09:13

OMG!OMG!OMG!OGM?OMG!

a. I hope this doesn't tear a hole in my pocket.
b. I hope we wont still be "Where's teh Alien DAlvik?" in 2012

jeroenqui

2011-02-08, 09:18

Really looking forward to this. This way we combine the great OS we already have, and the lots of applications available for the 'popular OS' android :)

toxaris

2011-02-08, 09:20

Really looking forward to this. This way we combine the great OS we already have, and the lots of applications available for the 'popular OS' android :)

Yepp, the best of two worlds :)

jeroenqui

2011-02-08, 09:26

Alien Dalvik enables the majority of Android applications to run unmodified, allowing application store owners to quickly kick start services by simply repackaging the Android Package (APK) files.
For applications that are very device-dependent, the modification process is simple and straightforward through Myriad’s plugin to Android SDK.

So it seems the files will need to be repacked to .deb (or maybe another format) just like it's the case with the Palm emulator..

ericsson

2011-02-08, 09:31

And all for the sake of a LightSabre. It certainly shows the power of The Force :)

NOMOS

2011-02-08, 09:45

So it seems the files will need to be repacked to .deb (or maybe another format) just like it's the case with the Palm emulator..

Is that a major impediment to current Android devs, you think?

ammyt

2011-02-08, 10:01

Well if this happens then bye bye Nitdroid, I'll miss you :(

joppu

2011-02-08, 10:17

It's a commercial piece of software, aimed at software publishers to "port" their software. Don't expect to get your hands on it anytime soon.

sansar95

2011-02-08, 10:36

Have checked the video and it is using MAEMO 5 and applications are being run directly from application menu

This is great

Same like Web OS game

ammyt

2011-02-08, 10:42

What about gaming? Most android games (gameloft) require multitouch...

u2maemo

2011-02-08, 10:43

It's most important step. Now Meego already have all Android apps before it is released. :D

New technology solution lets Android apps run on non-Android phones
http://thefonecast.com/News/tabid/62/EntryId/3805/New-technology-solution-lets-Android-apps-run-on-non-Android-phones.aspx

joppu

2011-02-08, 10:44

Late. (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=69492)

gowen

2011-02-08, 10:47

At last we might get a descent Audible player on the N900.

gruik

2011-02-08, 10:52

The Android Apps will be available on Android Market, Ovi Store?? Incredible. I hope this is the big bang from Nokia.

maxximuscool

2011-02-08, 10:53

When can we buy this app :)

ysss

2011-02-08, 10:55

Some will like it (FOSS, companies that sell apps/clients for their services, social apps, etc).

Those that don't like it (apps with commercial content, games, etc) will look for ways to limit their target market; and/or find ways to monetize this new 'market'.

[DarkGUNMAN]

2011-02-08, 11:05

Mailed them a few questions of my own...

> I observed that the applications were running in Portrait mode - is
> there an option to run them in Landscape, and in full screen mode
> without the title bar?
>
> I also observed on the video that the Menu and Back buttons appear
> on-screen, would you consider maling these re-mappable to physical
> buttons on the device itself?
>
> Will it allow the use of desktop widgets downloadable from
> the google marketplace?

u2maemo

2011-02-08, 11:14

Can I think Meego device will have all Android apps, but Android device only have Android apps run on it.

So Meego will win.

The best is Meego also have all GNU library and tools.

ysss

2011-02-08, 11:17

Can I think Meego device will have all Android apps, but Android device only have Android apps run on it.

So Meego will win.

The best is Meego also have all GNU library and tools.

That's the obvious outcome.

Google and their OEM partners will avoid that (MeeGo supremacy) by positively differentiating Android based products.

Don't underestimate them.

jeroenqui

2011-02-08, 11:21

Is that a major impediment to current Android devs, you think?

As i can see it, it won't be needed to be done by the devs. You can just repackage the original binaries. And if not, I guess if you point the developers to the easy solution, many of them are willing to coöperate.

jakiman

2011-02-08, 11:34

If they don't release it for N900, I hope it gets leaked out somehow........

AndyNokia232

2011-02-08, 11:35

Very interesting news, I just hope it's going to be easily available and installable for the noobs like me (I'm pretty sure there are a few of us). The youtube vid deffo seems to show the N900 running Maemo5 - be nice to get some of those sexy Android apps - I'm pretty hopeful for 2011 now! :)

ceaboust

2011-02-08, 11:44

I didn't see this posted in this thread so I figured I'd do it:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/myriad-alien-dalvik-runs-android-apps-on-any-phone-starting/
With the youtube video showing it running on the N900:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWEyKjwk2g&feature=player_embedded

The android apps do seem to be integrated, they use the launcher to start them up etc.

I think google likes this development. They're in it for the ads.. and if the android apps run like they are supposed to, they'll have those admob ads which means google profits.

edit: I just saw the first post had been edited to add the youtube link. sorry.

To add a little more content to my post I thought I'd add a video showing the myriad dalvik software running 3D stuff faster than googles dalvik implementation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-qvyHhd0ao&NR=1
I guess that means 3D android apps work on maemo+meego+symbian devices :)

Frappacino

2011-02-08, 11:51

ceaboust

2011-02-08, 11:54

.... believe NOTHING until the code is in ur n900 and running ...

remember ? there was this OTHER youtube video demo that had a highly anticipated n900 software....

we all know what happened to that one

These people are presenting at Mobile World Congress(in a couple days), Its not just a random youtube video out there. With that said, skepticism is good.

colm.smyth

2011-02-08, 12:03

This will be running on Maemo, clearly visible on the video, its also going to be a paid app, but you should be able to use the android market from what I have heard.

Due to fragmentation id imagine this app will only work with 2.2 for the moment.

ammyt

2011-02-08, 12:04

I agree that this is more of a problem for Nokia than a win. Android secretly eats symbian/meego from inside.
The guy has got a point...

ysss

2011-02-08, 12:16

I think google likes this development. They're in it for the ads.. and if the android apps run like they are supposed to, they'll have those admob ads which means google profits.

ad is not Google's sole revenue.

To add a little more content to my post I thought I'd add a video showing the myriad dalvik software running 3D stuff faster than googles dalvik implementation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-qvyHhd0ao&NR=1
I guess that means 3D android apps work on maemo+meego+symbian devices :)

That video is of Dalvik Turbo vs (Google's) Dalvik 1.5/1.6. There's a huge speed up on the current version (2.1+), if I'm not mistaken.

gerdich

2011-02-08, 12:24

The next thing will be a VM for iPhone applications with maemo :D

ammyt

2011-02-08, 12:26

Maemo users, prepare for tonnes of fart apps!

Boemien

2011-02-08, 12:28

I guess that It works a little bit like Javispedro's PreEnv.
I wonder if the N900 will be able to handle multitouch games?
Will it be able too to manage 3D rendering of Android Games?

In my Opinion, This App will maybe be a proof of concept for the Nokia N900. It will be more implemented with future Nokia's High end Phones. (N8, N9)
Anyway, we will all be happy if we could install tons of Android Apps. The only problem will be memory available for Apps. But Here again, with the amazing hidden power of our N900, I'm sure that somebody will find a way to transfer Applications space to the Memory card or whatever!!! :D

ammyt

2011-02-08, 12:30

babyshamie

2011-02-08, 12:30

this is awesome,,but are we gonna be able to run big apps like games,.isnt mentioned in the video

Boemien

2011-02-08, 12:34

The last issue I could think of is running out of memory. Repartitioning or custom emmcs are treats.

Hahaha! Choose between apps/Games and Music/videos....:rolleyes:

kyllerbuzcut

2011-02-08, 12:36

As long as it doesn't take up much rootfs space then there is no problem with space.Just repartition /home and you have loads of space in there.

cferrism

2011-02-08, 12:42

Playstation suite on Maemo...could be all kinds of awesome!

mikec

2011-02-08, 12:43

Now check this out

http://www.myriadgroup.com/About-Myriad/Management/Benoit-Schillings.aspx

this guy comes from Nokia then trolltech :D

shutdown

2011-02-08, 12:48

LAST UPDATE: http://www.myriadgroup.com/Media-Centre/News/Myriad-Announces-Alien%20Dalvik-Enables-Android-Apps-to-Run-on-Non-Android-Phones.aspx
:D:D:D:D:D

we need wait 14 February for the congress..

javispedro

2011-02-08, 12:50

Nowhere says this is going to be available to the general public.

(And the probable reason is that they know it is usually a comercial suicidal... just look at the preenv thread... )

shutdown

2011-02-08, 12:54

ammyt

2011-02-08, 12:55

Hahaha! Choose between apps/Games and Music/videos....:rolleyes:

If I were to choose between Maemo 5 and apps/Games, I would choose apps/Games. Screw you Maemo 5! :p
I'm just joking, please don't sue me for such stuff :)

andrewfblack

2011-02-08, 13:04

Well we have seen it run on Maemo5 so even if they only release it on Meego, I think we could get it to run on Maemo5. Also since they are using a N900 I hope they understand this community and understand they might as well release it for Maemo5 its going to happen with them or without them.

Capt'n Corrupt

2011-02-08, 13:21

Haha.. I love the sudden enthusiasm for something related to Android...

So I guess APK/DalvikVM portability is good afterall, nay?

kojacker

2011-02-08, 13:22

Nowhere says this is going to be available to the general public.

(And the probable reason is that they know it is usually a comercial suicidal... just look at the preenv thread... )
I'm trying to get more information about how this application is to be used and distributed but being behind a work filter isn't helping. Ive seen it reported that this is a FOSS project, others say commercial. Is it an app that runs a repackaged Android application, or is it a porting tool for the application developers? I mean, some commerical tools like Pyxis cost large sums of money for a license.. I can't imagine many Android developers paying $120,000 for a license so they could repackage their code to run on Maemo5. Is it something available to everyone to run from the PC at home?

I think there's a lot of details we need to wait for before getting too excited about this project.

Let's say it's free and available to the home user to repackage Android applications and upload them to their N900. That's great for us, but it's an interesting problem for Nokia too. Do Nokia want it's users purchasing and using Android applications for their handset? Not only would Google be picking up a cut of anything through the Android Market, but what incentive does it give to developers to list their apps for sale through Ovi? Nokia want to be selling these applications and services to us directly.

Anyhow if anyone has more info on how Alien Dalvik is planned to be distibuted and sold/used under license please post - else we'll have to wait til Feb 14th and see I guess :)

Capt'n Corrupt

2011-02-08, 13:30

3D Android games are generally developed with the Android NDK, and as such are coded in C/C++ and not Java. If Alien Dalvik includes support for the NDK, you'll get 3D games as well, but it doesn't seem to be mentioned.

sophocha

2011-02-08, 13:32

v13

2011-02-08, 13:37

MeeGoid ? :D

jsa

2011-02-08, 13:45

Already posted this on other forum, but I'll post it here too.. have been itching to get this off my chest. :)

I'm impressed if it works half as well as Myriad claims it does. To this date I haven't really seen solutions that transparently and flawlessly run applications from other OS's unless the applications themselves were originally written to be cross platform.

I can also find videos of Windows applications running just fine on Linux with Wine which doesn't mean they don't have to maintain a mile long compatibility list with a myriad (pun intended) of compatibility levels ranging from "hey, perfect" to "works if you tinker hard enough" to "can kind of use it if you're crazy enough" to "no go".

And to me personally seamless integration means a bit more than that I can launch it like a native application. It includes things like look and feel, hooks to platform specific services like unified accounts management etc., hooks to OEM specific stuff like Ovi Store or Maps etc. and stuff like that.

I'm hoping we'd see the space evolving to a more integrated experiences like Maemo's unified messaging, MeeGo's unified account management, or application extensions/plugins, Nokia Social etc. IMHO there's so much unused potential in this area and I'd rather see that potential realized instead of just a flood of thousands and thousands of stand-alone applications I'm not likely to ever use.

That said, I'm not meaning to rain on anyones parade, I'm just advising caution with expectations wrt. Myriad. There's a lot between "all works great" and "it doesn't work at all".

Capt'n Corrupt

2011-02-08, 13:47

No android device supports ALL apps, and I seriously doubt it would be the case here.

It's a subtlety, but apps coded using the NDK are not portable like the Dalvik ones, and are limited to the architecture they were compiled for. I also do not see mention of the NDK support in the Myriad literature, though I suspect it wouldn't be hard to implement.

I think it's safe to say that *most* apps will work (thanks to Dalvik's portability), which is a huge plus for the Maemo/MeeGo community.

Now if only someone would return the favour, and create an environment in Android in which MeeGo apps could run!

Capt'n Corrupt

2011-02-08, 13:53

That's the obvious outcome.

Google and their OEM partners will avoid that (MeeGo supremacy) by positively differentiating Android based products.

Don't underestimate them.

On the flip side, I'm not sure that officially supporting Android binaries in MeeGo would be a good tactical decision. Based on the popularity of Android, I forsee developers forgoing MeeGo entirely and concentrating on the larger market, thus subverting QT development further.

If it is about differentiation as a source of attraction, Android on MeeGo would make a MeeGo device just another Android device.

gerdich

2011-02-08, 14:05

At least there IS android integration.
If you have only nitDroid your apps are completely separed from maemo.

Now you can boot nitDroid and go to google market place. Every application you install and every document you work on is also available in maemo.

Now you can restart maemo and use everything from android together with the (better performing) native applications from maemo.
You can even communicate with android users and the documents they work on. And you can transform everything you give and get by maemo applications.

gerdich

2011-02-08, 14:13

There is a big difference in quality of android applications and maemo.
Maemo native applications perform much better and are better designed.
They integrate in the whole systems.

Android applications are like idiots.
They are not necessary and after a time replaced by real native applications.

Google apps are a nice decoration not more and not less.

...And if you have them you can communicate with much other users outside the little but effective n900 world.

sjgadsby

2011-02-08, 14:16

"ALL Android apps will run on Meego OS soon, what will happen?" (8 posts) has been merged into this thread.

MeeGoExperts

2011-02-08, 14:17

its about time nokia pay for their mistakes concerning the n900.its going to bite them in the a*** just because they abandoned this wonderful phone.lets hope that this app will be available commercially.now if nokia does something to bury this project i will be pissed!

This App will be available to OEMs, operators and application stores. So as long as its taken up by them, then end users will be able to use it.

gerdich

2011-02-08, 14:25

"ALL Android apps will run on Meego OS soon, what will happen?"

If Meego doesn't accelerate its progress anything else will happen:

"All Android apps will run on Maemo and Meego won't happen"

I'm waiting for a new version of meego for the n900.
I've told to myself: "If meego 1.2 is out I'll finally install it on my SD!"

volt

2011-02-08, 14:28

About time there were some good news for our platform :)
Let's hope this isn't an air castle.

raghavmurali

2011-02-08, 14:59

I am also awaiting for the day where we have many apps to run on maemo. But if this can be acheived by someone why can't someone from the community do it. I am not aware of the technicalities but that would be really great like the community ssu.

pinsh

2011-02-08, 15:08

Good news! I have been saying for a long time that someone should port dalvik and adapt the library bindings to maemo/meego (maybe I should sue them and claim they stole my idea, like in the facebook movie ;)).

It seems "Alien Dalvik" will be commercial, closed source. First I was surprised by this but it seems the Apache 2 license allows you to make changes and distribute binaries without having to publish your changes (?).

rmerren

2011-02-08, 15:31

It doesn't look like this is an end-user android layer, but a way for developers to repackage apps written for android to run on Maemo and Meego (and, if it uses Qt correctly, on symbian). I wouldn't expect an app that lets you download and run android apps, but I would look for apps to come out more quickly for multiple platforms (hopefully including ours).

Rovio has shown a willingness to produce apps for multiple platforms, including N900. I hope this might convince others to do this as well. It could also get app developers to consider Android as their first choice instead of iOS because they could more quickly roll out to about 2/3 of the world's smartphones and then port to iOS later. And I would expect this to be targeted at (and priced for) big app writers like banks and adobe and qik and not Joe Schmo in his parents' basement.

In short: great news, cool technology, but not an app we will be installing and using.

stlpaul

2011-02-08, 15:45

gerdich

2011-02-08, 16:03

mikec

2011-02-08, 16:13

The OS2/Analogy is quite good, and painful for those of us who remember it, but there are differences to todays market.

Maybe another analogy is the success of VMWare, which is more directly comparable to what Myriad are proposing here.

gerdich

2011-02-08, 16:19

There is no OS2 analogy.
OS2 asked more memory than usual.
The performance was miserable because of the virtual memory on harddisk.

Applications use more memory with Dalvik than without.
The performance of maemo is better.

Many people were willing to switch to OS/2 if OS/2 had offered the same application and nearly the same performance.
But the performance was miserable and the application unusable.

mrojas

2011-02-08, 16:19

Nokia should work an agreement with this guys to make their Alien Dalvik tech part of the Qt suite. Maybe Nokia pay them a huge, annual, flat fee so Alien is included as part of Qt. Would make life a lot easier for devs.

Capt'n Corrupt

2011-02-08, 16:29

Applications use more memory with Dalvik than without.
The performance of maemo is better.

You should really consider reading through:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68730

There's a gripping debate on VM performance vs. Native.

maluka

2011-02-08, 16:31

Android on MeeGo would make a MeeGo device just another Android device.

Not necessarily. MeeGo is native Linux so it has way more power. If MeeGo comes with the same free OVI Maps as Symbian then I can see someone choosing free offline satnav over an Android phone that only has online nav. When you travel outside your country's borders a lot, free offline nav becomes a big deal.

Capt'n Corrupt

2011-02-08, 16:43

Not necessarily. MeeGo is native Linux so it has way more power.
Debatable. You can install Ubuntu in Android, you know.

If MeeGo comes with the same free OVI Maps as Symbian then I can see someone choosing free offline satnav over an Android phone that only has online nav. When you travel outside your country's borders a lot, free offline nav becomes a big deal.

Indeed, this is a true out-of-the-box point in MeeGo's favour. There are Android apps that do the same, but not out of the box.

I'm not sure if this would be major selling feature, though. IMO, Google maps for Android looks far more impressive at first glance.

In all likelihood, Google will release its apps (including maps) for MeeGo if/when it achieves a critical mass.

Rauha

2011-02-08, 17:07

Now this is interesting:

"Most Android applications can run unmodified as
the vast majority of Android APIs are supported and
tight integration with the QT framework leads to a
seamless user experience."

They use Qt as backend.

"Benoit Schillings is Chief Technology Officer of Myriad Group AG. In this role he is responsible for the company’s technology strategy and focus on innovation.

Prior to joining Myriad, Schillings held the position of Chief Technologist at Nokia. There he was responsible for Nokia’s cross-device technology as well as Technology Advisor to Nokia’s CEO, Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo. Schillings joined Nokia following their acquisition of Trolltech, where, as Chief technologist, he was responsible for leveraging Trolltech’s existing technologies and services"

http://www.myriadgroup.com/About-Myriad/~/link.aspx?_id=98171BA153DC4AD495AC90942351C323&_z=z

Laughing Man

2011-02-08, 17:21

As a former OS/2 user who saw developers use Windows support as an excuse to not making native OS/2 applications, and users who realized there was no point in using OS/2 if all the apps they used were Windows apps, please excuse me if I refrain from celebrating and sit back and watch with a skeptical eye...

The answer to that is to heavily push QT development then. And show how easier (if not then it should be made easy enough) to create an application in QT that runs on any QT based platform (PC with QT support, Meego based smartphones and tablets, Meego based car systems, Meego based entertainment systems, etc..)

Turkishflavor

2011-02-08, 17:38

and where can I download the deb? Will it ever come out on maemo? or only on meego?

i know THEY showed it on MAEMO, but u know, flash 10 was also previews first on MAEMO, but never came out officialy LOL like Myriad Alien Dalvik i guess! :(

Dave999

2011-02-08, 17:41

great news indeed. But do you remeber the flash 10 demo or the rollercoaster demo way back. It still no garantuee you ever see this or i can take years...

ericsson

2011-02-08, 17:47

The funny thing is that no american blogs or analysts saw this coming :) Anyway, what is this really, it is only Java on smartphones. Hardly more exciting than Java on PC or J2me.

How heavy is Nokia involved in this? do they have a solution on their own? Somehow I don't think this is the end of the story.

mece

2011-02-08, 17:49

great news indeed. But do you remeber the flash 10 demo or the rollercoaster demo way back. It still no garantuee you ever see this or i can take years...

Yeah, I remember the rollercoaster demo...
http://store.ovi.mobi/content/38556

The game is quite nice too. There's also a free demo version. :)

Helmuth

2011-02-08, 17:51

In opposite to the OS/2 disaster we've got at Maemo/MeeGo native support for many Linux Libraries, GTK+, Qt and last but not least full Python (PyQt) support!

Many Linux applications are more easier to port to Maemo/MeeGo instead to rewrite them to a JavaVM. (Pingus, OpenDUNE, OpenOffice, Gimp, Widelands, SSH, VNC, all the Emulators for SNES, MegaDrive, Playstation, GameBoy, C64, CPC, Amiga...)

And don't forget the Linux shell with all his scripting capabilities...

...in the end we have the most of the Android applications, and Android has none of ours?

arnoldux

2011-02-08, 17:52

i want that sh*t on my phone, period

LOL

looks promising, the sad thing is that if it gets released freely, it may destroy the nitdroid proyect

bust still its an AMAZING APP

attila77

2011-02-08, 18:11

OS/2 didn't die because of Windows applications.
OS/2 died because of the bad marketing and the bad performance.
They didn't have ENOUGH applications for the normal user.
When they begun to use Windows Applications it was already to late.
Many hated Microsoft and were willing to swith to OS/2.

Hah, that's a funny story. OS/2 was in good part developed by Microsoft and in 1.x it shared plenty of APIS. IBM took over when they realized Microsoft is preparing for a coup capitalizing on the success of Windows 3.x, but it was too late. Microsoft cut OS/2 at the legs by leaving it on Windows 3.x (cutting it off from the upgrade paths), they controlled the ecosystem (OS/2 is windows compatible, right ?) and what MS originally developed as OS/2 3.0 became known to the world as... Microsoft Windows NT (the first versions of NT even supported OS/2 filesystems and vestigial APIs). Realizing they are being ****d big time, IBM did a last-ditch effort with their own OS/2 3.0 Warp, even tried to combat the lack of native apps by embracing Java (getting on-topic, woo !). Now, with the performance of Java at the day, this did not help the slightest bit (I pity everyone who tried JavaOffice on a 386), and the lack of apps, drivers, and MS striking deals for having MSDOS/Windows being sold in bundles meant a nasty death-spiral for OS/2.

It was many summers ago, but that is how I remember that story.

OS/2 tried to gain traction from an existing ecosystem through compatibility not once, but twice, and both times failed horribly, exactly because of lack of native 'killer application' momentum.

Dave999

2011-02-08, 18:27

i can see that nokia wont allow this to be release for n900/maemo. If they have any influance here. This is a good sales aspect(meego/n9?) as well for nokia even though i cant recall any application I would use.

qole

2011-02-08, 18:47

A well-written Dalvik VM on top of MeeGo could be a real game changer. I can see OEMs being very attracted to the "Android" VM running on a real Linux stack, as opposed to the minimalist Android infrastructure. This is especially appealing for tablets, which live in that weird gray area between laptops and handhelds.
And if MeeGo continues to develop its locked-down security model allowing DRM and operator control, it will be an OEM's dream combination.

Vaskinn

2011-02-08, 18:57

i can see that nokia wont allow this to be release for n900/maemo.

Nokia doesn't get a say in that. They could deny it access to the ovi store but there is nothing Nokia could do to prevent this from being downloadable from somewhere else.
If they do refuse it for the ovi store they run the risk of myriad (or someone else) making an alternate store (or the android market if it can work directly with that) taking money and control away from Nokia.

So what do I think of the idea?
If this will be available for end users, and will enable me to run spotify with offline playlists I'm willing to pay for it. Cant't think of any other killer app that would sell it to me at this moment.

But I have one question. How are android applications and multitouch? Do they require it or will most of them work with a singletouch.screen?

zimon

2011-02-08, 19:02

I wonder if Elop is now reconsidering his speech for Friday?
Seems like everything has changed now.

Dave999

2011-02-08, 19:06

Nokia doesn't get a say in that. They could deny it access to the ovi store but there is nothing Nokia could do to prevent this from being downloadable from somewhere else.
If they do refuse it for the ovi store they run the risk of myriad (or someone else) making an alternate store (or the android market if it can work directly with that) taking money and control away from Nokia.

You dont now how the ownerchip looks like. If their are any deals or how the structure looks like. Im sure nokia have a say even if they dont have the final decition.

Infact I think its enough if nokia say: Ignore maemo, we dont support it anymore. just a very limited number of users. But look at this graph of meego users a year from now and think of the profit your app would generate.

vvaz

2011-02-08, 19:13

I wonder if Elop is now reconsidering his speech for Friday?
Seems like everything has changed now.

I think that from beginning this is what Elop's speech was about.

Add to this recent announcements about MS apps on Symbian and Nokia becomes hub for mobile activity maintaining control about every aspect of their portfolio.

In short to middle term this may hurt Qt but with potential big immediate financial gains with Ovi.

Now, it still needs perfect execution of two elements:

- *timely* release of kick-*** MeeGo device
- *working* Ovi

And past Nokia record is far from perfection in those two areas...

Edit: well, I was kinda stupid, weren't I?

ysss

2011-02-08, 19:17

I wonder if Elop is now reconsidering his speech for Friday?
Seems like everything has changed now.

You mean he gets his information from tech blogs and forums like us?
That's so cute :)

tolgapaksoy

2011-02-08, 19:18

If ANY Android application is possible with Alien Dalvik, the Dolphin HD browser will be possible too. So there might be a possibility for Flash 10.1

zimon

2011-02-08, 19:33

You dont now how the ownerchip looks like. If their are any deals or how the structure looks like. Im sure nokia have a say even if they dont have the final decition.

Infact I think its enough if nokia say: Ignore maemo, we dont support it anymore. just a very limited number of users. But look at this graph of meego users a year from now and think of the profit your app would generate.

Most likely anyway we need FOSS version of Dalvik, FOSS Dalvik.
It is doable.

sjgadsby

2011-02-08, 19:34

So, as others have pointed out, this doesn't appear to be a stand alone environment, à la Wine, but instead a wrapper applied to individual applications by the developer or the app store. The "by the app store" option is intriguing though, as it implies the translation layer doesn't require recompilation of the application, as winelib does.

Given that, I wonder how likely is it that the wrapper, once installed normally in conjunction with one Android application, could be copied out and applied to other, not yet Alien Dalvik-atized Android apps.

It would be interesting if Amazon took an interest in this for their own Android store. At a glance, it would appear to be a good fit for them.

It would be even more interesting if Ovi Store began accepting the submission of straight Android apps, applying this wrapper in exchange for a higher cut of the profits than for native Qt applications.

zimon

2011-02-08, 19:36

In short to middle term this may hurt Qt but with potential big immediate financial gains with Ovi.

Since Alien Dalvik is build top of Qt, I am not surprised to know soon it is coming also for Symbian and WP7.

arnoldux

2011-02-08, 19:41

ill just wait patiently to feb 15, to see if this thing is going to get releases and start praying for a leak

Vaskinn

2011-02-08, 20:09

You dont now how the ownerchip looks like. If their are any deals or how the structure looks like. Im sure nokia have a say even if they dont have the final decition.

That's correct, and I didn't really take ownership into account. If Nokia owns (enough shares in) Myriad then they could block this. But then I'd expect them to have blocked even the announcement.

A little searching reveals Nokia hasn't dealt in Myriad shares directly for the last few years. Though they could have a controlling interest in one or more of the companies that did.

Infact I think its enough if nokia say: Ignore maemo, we dont support it anymore. just a very limited number of users. But look at this graph of meego users a year from now and think of the profit your app would generate.

Nokia could say that, but I don't see why it would change anything. Myriad already have a working version on maemo (for demo purposes atleast), Selling/giving away that version shouldn't affect sales on meego. And withholding it increases the chance of a competing (commercial or open) solution beeing developed and taking over the market.

OTOH if "nokia meego" is to be locked down so that you couldn't install anything withoud nokias blessing then they could threaten to block myriads apps if they release this. But if that happens lots of the hardcore users/developers that Nokia needs would move to competing meego devices once they're released.

attila77

2011-02-08, 20:14

Since Alien Dalvik is build top of Qt, I am not surprised to know soon it is coming also for Symbian and WP7.

There is no Qt for WP7. Symbian is not really a that attractive target because of the limited hardware it usually runs on.

Laughing Man

2011-02-08, 20:22

If ANY Android application is possible with Alien Dalvik, the Dolphin HD browser will be possible too. So there might be a possibility for Flash 10.1

I doubt it considering Flash 10.1 would still be a plugin for an Android OS (I think) What this allows (if I am correct) is the ability to run applications coded with dalvik. If the application makes a call for the Flash plugin built into the Android OS and the OS is Maemo then Flash content wouldn't work.

vvaz

2011-02-08, 20:32

Since Alien Dalvik is build top of Qt, I am not surprised to know soon it is coming also for Symbian and WP7.

Hah, and there is genius in it :)

Porting Qt to WP7 or Android gives Nokia nothing. Zero. Null.

But making Android apps running on Symbian and MeeGo is big coup for Nokia. Why? Because best way for developers to get to Symbian/MeeGo users is through Ovi store where Nokia will get its percentage.

stickymick

2011-02-08, 20:33

I doubt it considering Flash 10.1 would still be a plugin for an Android OS (I think) What this allows (if I am correct) is the ability to run applications coded with dalvik. If the application makes a call for the Flash plugin built into the Android OS and the OS is Maemo then Flash content wouldn't work.

TweakFlash Plugin?

maxximuscool

2011-02-08, 20:50

With this app, I will never leave my Maemo5 device :)
Why use Android? if you can use Maemo5 and still be able to take advantage of the Android apps :) without having to switching over.

esiravegna

2011-02-08, 20:54

Any toughts on supporting some low level hardware layers, suchs as GPS? I know on the video they showed Google Maps, but I didn't see any satellite lock...

Dave999

2011-02-08, 20:55

With this app, I will never leave my Maemo5 device :)
Why use Android? if you can use Maemo5 and still be able to take advantage of the Android apps :) without having to switching over.

only one problem. You need to put your hands on it. How are you going to to that?

GreatGonzo

2011-02-08, 21:44

Funny that all these developments like flash 10.1 and now this happen on this apparently "crap" phone with a "crap" OS...

geneven

2011-02-08, 22:22

Impressive video, especially since it specifically mentions a chess app. No one has managed to create a decent chess app for the N900 despite promises and support from the highest levels.

But if I saw the video correctly, the chess program had the king on f2 early in the opening. Not very promising, that.

Corso85

2011-02-08, 22:22

It's the little frankenstein nokia mobile that could. Palm OS games. Android Apps......anyone need anything from wp7 or iOS? I'm sure something will work out.

:D

leetnoob

2011-02-08, 23:58

Hmm.. from their website it seems to repackage android apps so they look and run as native apps. I'm not convinced it's going to be for end users or cheap. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is more of a mating call aimed at nokia.

jakiman

2011-02-09, 00:06

Wish Nokia just made a newer version of N900 with 4.5" screen, dual core ARM, 1GB RAM and keep using Maemo5....

gmuslera

2011-02-09, 00:18

What if they repackage top open android apps as "demo" of the technology, and then sell to commercial devels to port their apps to this new markets? We could win a lot of new free apps there, and they will do a good sale point to commercialize their product. We all win.

Btw, Google could regret putting Dalvik under Apache License instead of GPL or another copyleft license, as it enables others (like Myriad) to repackage their software as something propietary.

Laughing Man

2011-02-09, 00:23

TweakFlash Plugin?

That still wouldn't help view real Flash 10 content though.

Hah, and there is genius in it :)

Porting Qt to WP7 or Android gives Nokia nothing. Zero. Null.

But making Android apps running on Symbian and MeeGo is big coup for Nokia. Why? Because best way for developers to get to Symbian/MeeGo users is through Ovi store where Nokia will get its percentage.

It would give Nokia developers that are working primarily on WP7 and Android. I'd say the other way around is a greater weakness. Sure Ovi store might be pre-installed on Nokia sold Meego/Symbian devices. But they might not be on other devices. And there's nothing stopping anyone from opening another store like on Android.

Maruzko

2011-02-09, 06:18

What about gaming? Most android games (gameloft) require multitouch...

Yea, I guess even if it could run Android games, the multi-touch wont work.
At least with Preenv it can be customised with scripts to make the games work with the keyboard.
But Dalvik may not be that flexible.

sansar95

2011-02-09, 07:26

Yea, I guess even if it could run Android games, the multi-touch wont work.
At least with Preenv it can be customised with scripts to make the games work with the keyboard.
But Dalvik may not be that flexible.

Buddy have faith in the community some one will find alternative for it

devil prince

2011-02-09, 08:01

well here comes da nooooob :p
i like da comment MeeGoid he pretty smart its better than Alien Dalvik Faiilian
and nokia sux dix i regret buyin nookia n900 (no offense) but what was nokia thinking making a device and not supporting it :p with some silly applications just for developers no games no cool and funny applications like iOS dats such a shame
and then poof they announce meego and it has been a decade we are all waiting and its still under development
i would suggest every1 shud buy himself a new fone :D hehheheh

P@t

2011-02-09, 09:11

So seems to be a repackaging of an app so that it becomes a 'normal' maemo/meego application!?
Then what is the difference with something like https://build.phonegap.com/ ? I believe this kind of service will grow up fast because there is a need to decrease the cost of development while the number of platform is increasing.
Ok a difference is that it may target Maemo but if this is costly for developpers (and it will probably be), then the chance to have anything available for Maemo is small.

My conclusion: this is just advertisement of a new service and they want to use the growing interest in Meego to benefit from it.

rash.m2k

2011-02-09, 09:49

Wicked - thats perfect! Meego with adroid apps!

Nokia N9 will kick ***.

volt

2011-02-09, 10:01

Growing interest in MeeGo? Where? My image of the media world is that everybody with access to a keyboard expects MeeGo to never happen, and Nokia to for no apparent/sane reason drop the world's biggest phone OS for Windows Phone 7 and/or Symbian, within a month.

P@t

2011-02-09, 10:13

@volt:
You can be attracted or interested by rumors. I am not.

Myriad is convinced that Meego will succeed at least !! Otherwise they would not work on this ;)

Rob1n

2011-02-09, 10:57

So seems to be a repackaging of an app so that it becomes a 'normal' maemo/meego application!?
Then what is the difference with something like https://build.phonegap.com/ ?
That requires applications to be written entirely in HTML/CSS/JavaScript, so is basically just packaging websites up as applications.

I believe this kind of service will grow up fast because there is a need to decrease the cost of development while the number of platform is increasing.
Ok a difference is that it may target Maemo but if this is costly for developpers (and it will probably be), then the chance to have anything available for Maemo is small.
That'll depend on their licensing terms. The usual method for this sort of technology is a flat license fee (either one-off or annual) plus a per-unit royalty. If the license fee itself is low enough then we could soon see developers interested.

v13

2011-02-09, 12:32

Realizing they are being ****d big time, IBM did a last-ditch effort with their own OS/2 3.0 Warp, even tried to combat the lack of native apps by embracing Java (getting on-topic, woo !).
...
OS/2 tried to gain traction from an existing ecosystem through compatibility not once, but twice, and both times failed horribly, exactly because of lack of native 'killer application' momentum.

I remember this to be somehow different: IBM never targeted end users. Instead, IBM was an old-fassioned company that used to shell "computers" (using the term just like it was in 1980's) to large organizations and enterprises like banks, governments etc. They almost always used to shell both the hardware and the software.

OS/2 failed mostly because IBM never cared about end-user adoption. They did not consider end-user bugs (like the infamous single-message-queue problem). Technologically-wise, OS/2 was far superior to windows, providing true multitasking, great VM management, pure object-oriented interface and other great things that were later adopted by other OSes and became the de-facto. For example: OS/2 supported windows applications, it had most GNU libraries, there was a native X-server (making it possible to run linux apps) and the then-famous 'bochs' emulator was ported to it, making it possible to run MS Windows in a window under X under OS/2 (yes... they irony).

However, since IBM never supported end-users and since they were selling their own hardware, they never had drivers as a priority. Supporting foreign hardware was not an issue (after all, in their minds, they were the old great IBM) since they were providing the hardware as well. When windows 95 came out with 'plug-and-play' every user's life was made easier and every hardware manufacturer jumped in. No more user-based IRQ, DMA and I/O port configuration.

OS/2 Warp was just the dying breath because IBM only cared about its own world and its own customers. When their customers started using other hardware, OS/2 died. In fact, they were very very lucky because windows supported their platform. Else IBM could have died a quick death when windows were adopted, just like famous unix manufacturers (digital, sun, etc) did.

carlon

2011-02-09, 15:56

Anyone has any idea as to when Myriad plans to launch alien dalvik? and when will it become available to n900 users?

carlon

2011-02-09, 15:59

Hello Dancairo,

Have they responded to your e-mail as yet? I think it's obvious that i'm excited about this lol

s@kke

2011-02-09, 16:02

meego??
http://megaobzor.com/Nokia-N9-sovershen-no-syrovat-MeeGo.html

Dancairo

2011-02-09, 16:04

Hello Dancairo,

Have they responded to your e-mail as yet? I think it's obvious that i'm excited about this lol

Hi..

No, no reply as yet, I've been checking regularly and got the N900 to check every 30 mins.. If and when they do, i'll be straight on here :)

volt

2011-02-09, 19:44

@volt:
You can be attracted or interested by rumors. I am not.

It is no rumor that there's no increased interest in MeeGo. There has always been some interest in MeeGo.

Not that much MeeGo interest whitin Nokia management itself, either.

zimon

2011-02-09, 20:33

Who are the owners of the Myriad, does someone know?
Maybe it has been "clear" to them from the beginning, Nokia will license Alien Dalvik to every Meego-phone. There has been "dubious" spin-off companies from Nokia before also.

The first Meego-phone would have critical mass of working applications at once. Later then time and evolution mechanisms would tell if Android- or Qt-platform would dominate, or both.

park

2011-02-09, 20:38

Video reminded me of the one where Flash 10.1 is running on our n900.....

stlpaul

2011-02-09, 20:40

Who are the owners of the Myriad, does someone know?
From the press release:

Myriad was created from the combination of industry leading companies, Esmertec and Purple Labs. It operates worldwide, with offices in Switzerland, France, UK, USA, Mexico, China, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan and Australia. Headquartered in Dübendorf Zürich Switzerland, Myriad is listed on the SIX Swiss Exchange (SIX Symbol: MYRN). For more information, please visit www.myriadgroup.com.

twaelti

2011-02-09, 20:52

It's the "new" name of a long standing Swiss mobile software company, after they acquired a french company.

sachin007

2011-02-09, 21:13

garen

2011-02-10, 03:03

Is there any idea of what the ETA of this is?

[DarkGUNMAN]

2011-02-10, 08:25

For me this is a welcome addition..
While I like some of the apps that are available for android, I don't like the user interface and the lack of true multitasking.

In the N900 we have a superior operating system and back catalog of linux applications, as well as the full debian catalog through easy debian, full java j2se support and partial webos support through preenv, the addition of the occasional dalvik app (or j2me app running on dalvik) is useful too, which makes the N900 the perfect device for me - its all about choice!

nfuel900

2011-02-10, 08:54

rock on!!!

bubbbbbz

2011-02-10, 14:40

Is it the 14th well hea whats going on?? when will it be available to us alsohow easy will it be for us newbies

cfh11

2011-02-10, 14:51

Guys dont get your hopes to high. I distinctly remember the No Bounds project. I assume this will either go that way or if it comes to the end user it will end up as the palm applications which were never useful because of lack of integration with the rest of the phone/tablet

The difference here is this is a real project from a real company - not just an experiment is someone's "beta lab". They claim that this will be "commercially available later this year" on Meego. I would expect that we will get some more details at MWC when they do their demonstration there.

Dancairo

2011-02-10, 16:38

Interesting quote from Stephen Elop:-

"Our competitors aren't taking our market share with devices; they are taking our market share with an entire ecosystem. This means we're going to have to decide how we either build, catalyse or join an ecosystem," wrote Elop.

Alien Dalvik seems like the perfect way to join an ecosystem to me!

Source:- http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Nokia-burning-platform-CEO-afp-1364783901.html

I recommend reading the whole article...very interesting stuff with paragraphs like:-
Even so, speculation has been frenzied that Elop would choose some kind of co-operation with Android particularly in the North American market where Symbian is on shaky footing.

BTW..They've still not replied to the email I sent (and re-sent yesterday)

EDIT...I see that there is a thread about something similar that I've just found...http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=69057
but I think it's relevant enough to post it here...

cloudstrife1ph

2011-02-11, 00:21

i'm just a consumer type with a bit to no knowledge porting and developing something...

i remember someone answered my question about the main problem porting android's flash 10.1 is because it's dalvik. if alien dalvik get released, will it be possible to port it for microb? or how about ripping android's stock browser and installing the flash?

Creamy Goodness

2011-02-11, 02:08

it could probably run an android web browser complete with flash 10.1, although it's also likely the gps won't work and the video won't be as smooth.

Catacylsm

2011-02-11, 10:25

I have a feeling if this works Nokia will seriously have to think about their options,

As well as happily acknowledging that the N900 was far more successful then Nokia had realised, the amount of stuff i'm seing people do on this mad device now is way beyond impressive, i hope this gets released, soon preferably.

Good luck Dalv (Y)

TimusEravan

2011-02-11, 14:36

With MeeGo dead, we have to petition the company to release a Maemo version.

Brian_7

2011-02-11, 16:35

With MeeGo dead, we have to petition the company to release a Maemo version.

You can make it in the petition site: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/

zimon

2011-02-11, 17:05

stlpaul

2011-02-11, 17:28

Today RIM announced Dalvik support in some of their future Blackberry devices. Wonder if they're using this.

gerdich

2011-02-11, 17:39

An "Ecosystem" is the typical apparition of closed software.
They want not only to sell their product but they want more money and financial implications.

What we need is a phone without ecosystem.

The center of Nokia should be the hardware and the software of smart phone.
In the other buisnesses (rights of music, videos, pictures, apps ... ) Nokia will not win. Other will make much more money out of that (e.g. music publishers.) They are themselves depending on the phone producers. They will come for free, if the phone sells.

The most smart phone would be a phone that's free from such implications but offers only hardware and main software.

stlpaul

2011-02-11, 17:59

They have changed the press release.
http://www.myriadgroup.com/Media-Centre/News/Myriad-Announces-Alien%20Dalvik-Enables-Android-Apps-to-Run-on-Non-Android-Phones.aspx

Before it was talking about bringing it to Meego devices soon. Now they are talking "non android phones"

It still says the same thing:

"Myriad Alien Dalvik will be commercially available later this year on the MeeGo platform. Other platform support will be announced in the coming months. Alien Dalvik will be demonstrated for the first time on the Nokia N900 at this year’s Mobile World Congress in Barcelona from February 14th-17th at the Myriad hospitality suite located at The Avenue, Stand AV91. "

cheve

2011-02-11, 19:56

I remember VMware had also demo VM running on Nxxx before but it did not make it out the door. With N900 being the 'dead' end product; there is not much incentive to make anything available commercially where the potential rate of return is limited

geojoking

2011-02-11, 22:50

Okay, now that MeeGo is pretty much out of the picture, they'd better release this for Maemo since it's already running !

bull81

2011-02-12, 08:09

I would actually pay for this... and wouldn't hesitate to spend some good $$$ so I can't wait.... maybe there is someone here who workes for the company and can at least give us a hope or something?!

TimusEravan

2011-02-13, 12:13

I have dropped them a message at http://www.myriadgroup.com/Contact-Us.aspx asking about Alien Dalvik on N900 and quite a few people will be interested in purchasing it.
They may do it, if they get more requests.

maxximuscool

2011-02-13, 12:19

i'll pay for that app :) PLEASE GIVE US NEW HOPE

festivalnut

2011-02-13, 12:44

maxximuscool

2011-02-13, 12:53

if this work on meego then i can see that i might buy the last and first meego device and then buy this app then run all android apps on it.

adhrie

2011-02-13, 12:58

contacted myriad also

i'm also willing to pay for this software

maxximuscool

2011-02-13, 13:00

emailed them too

windows7

2011-02-13, 13:17

At last we might get a descent Audible player on the N900.

i missed coreplayer :)

Tensuke

2011-02-13, 13:20

Contacted them as well. I made the point that, as meego's future is so uncertain, why wait to bring this to market when they already have software running on already released hardware--by not releasing it for maemo/n900, they're practically throwing money away. That said, I don't know the specifics regarding just how well it works on the n900 and how complete it is, but it looks to me like with a bit more polishing, it would run just fine. And it would sell.

danielpublic

2011-02-13, 13:31

I contacted them as well! Writers block?

Well, then... here you go! :D
Hi!

I saw your very, very promising Myriad Alien Dalvik software on youtube! Wow! I couldn't help seeing that this lovely piece of software ran on a Nokia N900!

I can tell you right now, please, by all means email me straight away when a product that can run on a N900, is about to leave the front door! I would gladly pay 30€ for this!

Cheers! /Daniel, Sweden.

Do us all a favour and get in touch with them five minutes ago!
Contact link: http://www.myriadgroup.com/Contact-Us.aspx

lsolano

2011-02-13, 14:54

I have dropped them a message at http://www.myriadgroup.com/Contact-Us.aspx

Count one more here...

Edit: I also posted a comment on their youtube video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWEyKjwk2g

bull81

2011-02-13, 15:22

Count one more here...

Me to

If half of the users of this forum will drop them an email it will be VERY HARD to ignore it.

windows7

2011-02-13, 16:07

Here is an interesting related web page but for java apps to android
http://www.netmite.com/android/

law138

2011-02-13, 16:37

Does anyone think that this will work with symbian ?

Shinigamijim

2011-02-13, 16:57

Does anyone think that this will work with symbian ?

it is supposed to work in different OS so symbian should be include later on

SalmanAbbas

2011-02-13, 18:04

lets not get our hopes too high...anyone remembers igelle?

lsolano

2011-02-13, 18:54

I've just got an answer:

[...]
Alien Dalvik, like the rest of Myriad’s portfolio is sold directly to operators and device manufacturers. We are currently in discussions with a number of our customers regarding Alien Dalvik and future deployments will be determined by market demand.
[...]

I don't think that "sold directly to operators and device manufacturer" is a good thing for us, at least, for those who wanted to buy Alien Dalvik without Nokia being involved.

festivalnut

2011-02-14, 00:03

I've just got an answer:

I don't think that "sold directly to operators and device manufacturer" is a good thing for us, at least, for those who wanted to buy Alien Dalvik without Nokia being involved.

i got the same reply, and no, i cant imagine we're going to see this...

unless... palm get it and someone ports it? theres always hope with the n900! :)

king Ralphred

2011-02-14, 00:29

Same reply here. I guess the customer is nokia, not us. Maybe we should be bombarding them, like they could give a phuk. Anybody know someone working for myriad who could let it slip onto megaupload?

maxximuscool

2011-02-14, 00:59

Hello Sopheak,

Thank you for your interest.

Alien Dalvik, like the rest of Myriad’s portfolio, is sold directly to operators and device manufacturers. We are currently in discussions with a number of our customers regarding Alien Dalvik and future deployments will be determined by market demand.

All the best,

Jaime Tero on behalf of Myriad Group

From: no-reply@myriadwebserver.com [mailto:no-reply@myriadwebserver.com]
Sent: 13 February 2011 13:00
To: Marketing
Subject: Contact Us Form

Hi,

A new user has filled in the contact form for your department. The details are as follows:
Salutation: Mr
Firstname: sopheak
Lastname: hean
Email: xxxxxxxx
TelephoneNo: +64212698899
CompanyName: N900 user and MeeGo
Position:
Comments: Dear Myriad, I am genuinely and sincerely interested in buying the Alien Dalvik application for my Maemo5 N900 and my Future MeeGo device. This app give all N900 users new hope and as well as MeeGo future. You can save us by release this wonderful app to our community and save us from Nokia's evil plan with MS. For the sake of the Maemo Community, I beg of you to sell it and we all would be more than happy to pay for it. Thank you for your consideration. Regards, Sopheak Hean talk.Maemo.org

HtheB

2011-02-14, 01:55

Got the same reply.....

I mailed them back again asking for a more proper answer, since (I know that) Nokia wouldn't "buy" this...

Edit:

Damn, just got an auto reply from them:
Hello,

Thank you for your message. I will be out of the office overseas attending a conference (MWC 2011) from Feb. 14th-Feb. 22nd. Should you have an urgent PR query please contact my mobile on 001 415 755 8639 or my colleague Jill Tsugawa 001 415 989 9803, otherwise I will respond to your request upon my return.

Thank you and have a wonderful day!

All the best,
Jaime Tero
onechocolate communications

Let's call/sms them ! :D

xur17

2011-02-14, 02:07

I just sent them an email. The responses other people have posted don't look very promising, but we can hope. The more people that email them the better.

HtheB

2011-02-14, 02:09

I already sent an sms to the numbers :p

Though it's 3AM already over here..... Thinking about it, they are in Barcelona now... which means it's the same time as over here (3AM) :D I hope I didn't wake them up :D heheh

adhrie

2011-02-14, 02:39

is it possible to ask the council to communicate with myriad for the release of available version of alien dalvik for n900?

or, learning from the past experience on flash 10.1 for n900, that our council/community is not that powerful afterall

Daneel

2011-02-14, 03:02

Maybe we can give you a seat on the council and you can shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars for this piece of software, what do you say?

PartyboyXP

2011-02-14, 03:18

Somebody call him please, Im from Argentina and my english is not good :(

Tensuke

2011-02-14, 09:04

Well we're all "operators" of a device which already has the JVM coded for it, and we're willing customers...Again, even if we don't buy licenses in the volume that device manufacturers would, the code is already there and frankly it seems like a waste not to, they don't need to market it or promote it--if one of us sees it, we'll all see it.

planetf1

2011-02-14, 13:05

Just emailed them about maemo support too

faximan

2011-02-14, 13:17

The Dalvik Idea is good... but hey guys it would be nicer if the best maemo developers should come togehther and take a look on nitdroid may be thats the best way to show nokia that we are not interested on blue screens or to develop a death system! freedom for nokia phones - develop nitdroid!

retsaw

2011-02-14, 13:31

I think I'll hold off on emailing them until after MWC, they are probably quite busy with it at the moment. I certainly don't think we should be SMSing them about it because although some of us here desperately want it, it isn't really urgent and it might piss them off and end up being counter-productive to getting what we want.

Although everyone who is interested in this should send them an email to let them know. I don't think it will be enough to change their business plan, they could be looking for an exclusive deal with a major manufacturer which may end up being worth more than the sales they'd get from us Maemo users, but still worth at least an email just in case.

arnoldux

2011-02-14, 18:52

any news on this app?

geojoking

2011-02-14, 19:49

Hasn't anyone been to their stand at the MWC?

m_philip

2011-02-14, 20:06

Hasn't anyone been to their stand at the MWC?

That's what i wanna know too - been googling to see further developments on this as they said they would have a demo on MWC, looking forward to this with so many hopes. Hope they don't let us down :(

esiravegna

2011-02-14, 20:09

Folks, so far they've stated that this product is intended to carriers or handset manufacturers. Do not keep your hopes soo high.

NiQ

2011-02-14, 21:40

great news indeed. But do you remeber the flash 10 demo or the rollercoaster demo way back. It still no garantuee you ever see this or i can take years...
Actually, the flash 10.1 from that demo was leaked about a month ago to the Internet so if you take that case as an example, in a year or so you may be able to find this tool on RapidShare.

P.S.
For any of you guys/gals who are now interested in the leaked Flash 10, that version (which is the same one demonstrated a long time ago) is a beta version which does not have any hardware acceleration, making it painfully slow and is therefore not suitable for everyday use.

arnoldux

2011-02-15, 00:07

im ztill wondering about aline dalvik and their fully functional demo at mwc2011!!

wth where are they!

lol :(

colm.smyth

2011-02-15, 00:35

Hey all,

New video from today of this http://www.irelandstechnologyblog.com/post/3300116212/myriad-dalvik-running-android-on-nokia-n900-maemo#disqus_thread

HtheB

2011-02-15, 08:27

Direct source to the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yp-1MdxfT8

Crom

2011-02-15, 08:55

Looks great!
Let's hope we can get it soon..

haffid

2011-02-15, 17:03

another video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzPCidP89Xs

rodrikiss

2011-02-15, 17:14

Last night I send a mail to myriadgroup to come out of the n900.

Bratag

2011-02-15, 17:16

Sigh - me want. The term "deployed in the field" does not bode well for end users getting it however

e-yes

2011-02-15, 17:18

The same application on all videos?

You kidding me??? :)

HtheB

2011-02-15, 17:22

another video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzPCidP89Xs

"So it's around 20 MB to install Alien Dalvik to the device and then you're able to enjoy any apk file!"

Then why do they only sell to "providers" and not also the end-users?!

I really don't understand this....

esiravegna

2011-02-15, 17:50

"So it's around 20 MB to install Alien Dalvik to the device and then you're able to enjoy any apk file!"

Then why do they only sell to "providers" and not also the end-users?!

I really don't understand this....

I guess it is a business model thing...I bet for the money they expect to make out of it, there are not enough N900 users to reach that figure...

However, my opinion, given the current state of the union (Nokia moving away from MeeGo full support, Intel encouraging developers), I'd try to cut my losses and sell to the general public now.

I'td be a wet drea for Nokia trying to get the OpenSource love, buying this and making it freely available via OVI store...heh...one can dream...

mbo

2011-02-15, 20:04

Perhaps it's not ready for distribution now.

esiravegna

2011-02-15, 20:32

Perhaps it's not ready for distribution now.

It is possible, as it was pointed out that only one app was showed (Photoshop).

Considering the state of things, I wonder if wever will be :(

MyNokiaN900

2011-02-15, 21:00

One app demo. This application has not convinced me in the slightest. The first video, the guy look quite alarmed that the camera was still rolling, almost to the point he didn't want us to see something!

If I were wanting to show off something amazing, I would show it off in all it's glory.

mece

2011-02-16, 07:10

I have to agree, I'm starting to be a little suspicious of this. Perhaps someone who is at mwc could ask them to show another application. The guy in the video mentioned google maps.

s4br0s0

2011-02-17, 14:11

Another video at Mobile World Congress.

Alien Dalvik in action at Mobile World Congress (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx0OjCD5pVs)

Grettings.

N900L

2011-02-17, 14:27

The just have shown it on the mwc,
they cant release it now.
Of course it will take some time.
But i doubt that they are going to release it for end users of Maemo since Nokia doesnt support maemo.

arnoldux

2011-02-17, 19:40

ill gladly pay for it

abill_uk

2011-02-17, 19:57

this guy is no way to be trusted i think.... AND Nokia should have snapped him up lol.

droitwichgas

2011-02-17, 20:03

Another video at Mobile World Congress.

Alien Dalvik in action at Mobile World Congress (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx0OjCD5pVs)

Grettings.

Hardly the most impressive demo at the MWC!!

maxximuscool

2011-02-17, 20:34

If only they release to end users

mastac

2011-02-17, 21:30

zimon

2011-02-17, 21:34

I think what this video shows us is that it is possible to run android apps on maemo... if Dalvik have figured out how to do it, can't the community have a go?

I would happily pay for this, Dalvik's or a community effort... I myself have zero knowledge of development for maemo but would be willing to be a tester :-D

A FOSS Dalvik VM could be a winning strategy to Meego also.
But maybe Samsung's Meego phone will have Alien Dalvik and if the hardware is like in Samsung Galaxy S2, I think we all would be satisfied.

maxximuscool

2011-02-17, 21:35

A FOSS Dalvik VM could be a winning strategy to Meego also.
But maybe Samsung's Meego phone will have Alien Dalvik and if the hardware is like in Samsung Galaxy S2, I think we all would be satisfied.

Where did you hear about Samsung Meego phone? Source please.

zimon

2011-02-17, 21:40

Where did you hear about Samsung Meego phone? Source please.

From this forum, it was a link to this one blog, so must be taken with salt. Also we all know Samsung already has Meego tablet.
Now when Nokia has given up Meego, I am sure some of the big players will try with recent high-end hardware. Samsung may know, a real Linux-OS like Meego would sell better than Bada.

ericsson

2011-02-17, 22:04

From this forum, it was a link to this one blog, so must be taken with salt. Also we all know Samsung already has Meego tablet.
Now when Nokia has given up Meego, I am sure some of the big players will try with recent high-end hardware. Samsung may know, a real Linux-OS like Meego would sell better than Bada.

Oh the ignorance is just so thick and slimy. First, Bada is not an OS, it is a platform, more like Qt. Bada can run on several different core OS'es. On the Wave S8500 it runs on OpenBSD. It is not meant for high end, not yet anyway, although the Wave with 1GHz processor and super amoled is not exactly low end. Version 2.0 is coming in June, also for the first Wave. 2.0 will have full multitasking, NFC, HTML5 and so on.

It has sold 5 million last year (since June), and they predict sales of 10 million in the first half of 2011. The most selling Android phone ever, the Galaxy S, "only" sold 10 millions during all 12 months of 2010. I think it is safe to say that Bada is a success, and hell of a lot more so than MeeGo. Bada may very well use the MeeGo core, but why? it seems that OpenBSD is doing fine.

Mike Fr

2011-02-17, 22:47

It would be a nice added value to have the Android apps on the N900. I would also pay for this app.

rodrikiss

2011-02-18, 05:48

http://www.myriadgroup.com/Device-Manufacturers/Android-solutions/~/media/D42B513FB5114FF2B4CA13A2D8CE313E.ashx

LagunaCid

2011-02-18, 05:50

Oh the ignorance is just so thick and slimy. First, Bada is not an OS, it is a platform, more like Qt. Bada can run on several different core OS'es. On the Wave S8500 it runs on OpenBSD. It is not meant for high end, not yet anyway, although the Wave with 1GHz processor and super amoled is not exactly low end. Version 2.0 is coming in June, also for the first Wave. 2.0 will have full multitasking, NFC, HTML5 and so on.

It has sold 5 million last year (since June), and they predict sales of 10 million in the first half of 2011. The most selling Android phone ever, the Galaxy S, "only" sold 10 millions during all 12 months of 2010. I think it is safe to say that Bada is a success, and hell of a lot more so than MeeGo. Bada may very well use the MeeGo core, but why? it seems that OpenBSD is doing fine.
To be fair, it *is* marketed as "Bada OS".

ericsson

2011-02-18, 06:20

To be fair, it *is* marketed as "Bada OS".

I know. As one of the very few here who actually own a Bada phone, I know. But in context, talking about MeeGo instead of Bada, makes no sense. Bada could very well run om MeeGo, and the Bada OS is OpenBSD.

Kenny1001

2011-02-18, 21:14

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/18/myriad-alien-dalvik-hands-on-video/

tadaa

geojoking

2011-02-18, 22:15

Oh well. Since it won't be released to the end-user and they only address manufacturers and operators, it seems to me that eventhough the application is demo'ed on a N900, it will never be released to the N900.

Nokia, as a manufacturer, will never buy this application. If they rejected Android as their primary OS, why should they buy this app to run Android apps? :(

lsolano

2011-02-18, 22:45

geojoking

2011-02-19, 00:20

zimon

2011-02-19, 00:26

I know. As one of the very few here who actually own a Bada phone, I know. But in context, talking about MeeGo instead of Bada, makes no sense. Bada could very well run om MeeGo, and the Bada OS is OpenBSD.

OS is more than just the kernel, includes UX.

I'd look forward Samsung Galaxy II hardware with Meego + Bada also if they have no interest to do Qt-GUI.

nightfire

2011-02-19, 03:50

And they probably chose it, to rub it in Nokia's face.

But still, I have to ask something. Is this software concept legal? Meaning, let's take the Adobe Photoshop app they're showing off. Is it legal to "port" an app without the developer's consent? What if Adobe does not want its software to reach all phones? How can a developer control the penetration and revenue stream from an app that can/could be ported to other category/categories of phones etc. ?

I understand that the porting itself is very practical and has many advantages, but I have many reasons to believe it's borderline legal.

Probably this is the main reason why Alien Dalvik won't be released to the end-user. Because we'd be able to install whatever we want and just ... "skip" all the restrictions created or imposed by the developers. Whereas, if sold only to manufacturers and/or operators, they would be able to choose/buy which apps to port. It's all about restrictions. My guess is that Myriad does not have, at the moment, the authority to port just any app they want.

Depends on the country, and in some cases, state.

In Canada your right to use (execute) software is derived from copyright law, and not the license that comes with the software.

If you legally acquired Photoshop, I don't believe Adobe would have cause for redress if you executed it under a VM/emulator, regardless of whatever their license stated.

In the US, the DMCA complicates things; they could claim the emulator was a circumvention device to get around their copyright protection.

There's also the issue of patents, despicable as they are.

If this software violates any patents held by Google, they could certainly go after the developers.

Let's hope patent reform comes sooner rather than later on that one.

jprobichaud

2011-02-19, 05:22

I would probably be ok to work on this task (at least, the easy stuff!), but right now, with my 2nd child coming, time is a very rare resource.

Why not try ourselves?

http://source.android.com/porting/build_system.html
http://code.google.com/p/dvk/
http://www.android-x86.org/

We need to understand first where to cut the line between the full android port and what's needed for a decent integration with maemo environment. We do not want the full "desktop/home menu" UI pieces, but I'm do not know the actual Android internals so I can't even tell where to start looking...

My first guess would be to look at the kernel part and "merge" what android needs in term of config (and probably extra code/patches as well) into Titan's kernel. That should be relatively easy.

I think that the harder parts will be the actual hardware integration layer. As we all know, the telephony maemo part is closed, so is the battery controller and other random stuff. Let's just hope that the single-touch screen won't be a total mess to deal with...

What do you think? Anybody really interested in getting rolling? Ideally, we shouldn't rely on your courageous CSSU team for this as their precious time is already more than well spent on fixing/improving native stuff/bugs. This thing is less than assured to workout correctly in the end.

ymartin59

2011-02-19, 05:44

My second child just born too !

Here is my "project page" http://ymartin59.free.fr/wordpress/index.php/2010/06/12/android-hacking-target-n900-maemo/

For kernel, you're right - it should be easy: configure cgroups and include OpenBinder.

In fact, the aim of a port is to avoid hardware specific code. So the idea is to map Android API to the corresponding Maemo libraries/methods thanks to the Dalvik JIT.

Hardware layer is a big trouble for Nitdroid team... because battery management and phone must be implemented there.

In my opinion, a Dalvik port is relevant for high level applications which needs to use only Screen, Mouse, Keyboard, Network, SMS, GPS... I guess at the point, it will already be considered as almost perfect.

nono63

2011-02-19, 06:55

it would be necessary to make an emulateur as preenv

rodrikiss

2011-02-20, 16:52

any news about this program??

geojoking

2011-02-20, 17:33

any news about this program??

The situation is pretty clear to me. Myriad has said many times before the application will NOT be available for sale to the end-user, because Myriad targets only device manufacturers and operators.

So it's pretty obvious this application will not be available for the N900 (eventhough it was previewed on the N900) because Nokia will probably NEVER buy it and offer it as an update to us.

zimon

2011-02-20, 17:50

The situation is pretty clear to me. Myriad has said many times before the application will NOT be available for sale to the end-user, because Myriad targets only device manufacturers and operators.
.

The reason could be, that if they sell it to person base, they are afraid it gets just copied to everyone without them getting paid. Isn't Dalvik with open source license, so they have to give the source if they sell it. When they have a contract, so every device in some category has that VM, they'll get paid for every device out there for that specific version. For example lets say Samsung Galaxy S2 Meego-version.

It may be possible, if they say and set some price and then we gather as many people who are interested in Alien Dalvik and then make an offer to buy the product to all N900s out there. If the price is right, I am sure they will play ball.

rodrikiss

2011-02-20, 18:01

if Myriad found the way, because the n900 users can not find. Developers layers as possible.

N900L

2011-02-20, 18:36

android runs already on n900.
The apps run also via nitdroid but it would be much better to have them running on maemo cuz nitdroid doesnt have any call function.

StocChr

2011-02-21, 14:53

android runs already on n900.
The apps run also via nitdroid but it would be much better to have them running on maemo cuz nitdroid doesnt have any call function.

nitdroid froyo & gingerbread dont have any call function?

jsomby

2011-02-21, 14:55

nitdroid froyo & gingerbread dont have any call function?

They do, but voice codec doesnt work so its useless.

flydeep

2011-02-21, 14:56

Yep, they don't. The only reason I have not spent time setting up nitdroid on my n900.

nitdroid froyo & gingerbread dont have any call function?

StocChr

2011-02-21, 14:59

Yep, they don't. The only reason I have not spent time setting up nitdroid on my n900.

i thought nitdroid froyo can make phone calls and gingerbread don't can?! hmm

flydeep

2011-02-21, 20:25

folks - correct me if I am wrong in saying I 'still' cannot make or receive calls with nitrdroid, I will be happy to try nitdroid.

i thought nitdroid froyo can make phone calls and gingerbread don't can?! hmm

lucas777

2011-03-28, 13:23

Do people not read these days?

There is no voice calling in Nitdriod 0.0.9 and Gingerbread, its to do with the voice codecs or whatever that n900 uses either way its being worked on but at this time in your life you have no calling in nitdroid.

garen

2011-04-10, 22:39

What's the news on the progress of this? :o

shazosbourne

2011-04-10, 23:28

What's the news on the progress of this? :o

Probably none. This is the reply I got from when I asked about it. You can come to your own conclusions based on what Nokia have done to/for Maemo.

Thank you for your interest.

Alien Dalvik, like the rest of Myriad’s portfolio, is sold directly to operators and device manufacturers. We are currently in discussions with a number of our customers regarding Alien Dalvik and future deployments will be determined by market demand.

2beers

2011-04-14, 08:42

Probably none. This is the reply I got from when I asked about it. You can come to your own conclusions based on what Nokia have done to/for Maemo.

Hmmmm - i mean i don't wanna talk about N*#§ and certainly not with it.
But - i would like to use the Device some more time.
Unfortunately though it still lacks - and always will lack - some essential native apps.

In my case that's a calendar, someone else might miss Shazam, a third one might miss some fingerfriendly excell replacement...

So - how about we (users) buy the app? I'd prefer not to buy it via OVI Store - as i don't wanna give N*#§ even another cent.
If Myriad *really* has an installable Version of their machine - they could simply sell it directly to us (like i.e. Sygic does).

I can't imagine ANY programmer or company spending cash, so an application can run on maemo as well.
Maemo is dead. There wont be new users - as there aint no devices. When my device breaks/gets stolen i know one thing for sure - never again a N*#§ Device.

Long story short - whom but us users are willing to pay for Myriad's software? Besides google maybe - as they will earn cash when we buy android apps.

azkay

2011-04-14, 08:53

When my device breaks/gets stolen i know one thing for sure - never again a N*#§ Device.

When mine breaks/gets stolen, if there isnt a new maemo/meego that I can afford then ill buy another used N900. I bought mine for 260AUD, well worth the money.

bakry2003

2011-04-14, 20:12

waiting for alien dalvik for this imaginary project

zdanee

2011-04-14, 20:23

I kinda understand why they would not even consider selling this to us. They have a technology that needs to be bought only 3-4 times by the major manufacturers, and no more. If they make it avaible to a community like TMO, they risk that their technology gets copied or ignored. For example if WebOS apps works on Maemo this would work the other way around. So if TMO makes a bargain and gets AD for some thousand $s, HP would not buy it, as Pre users would be able to use the Maemo version.