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larux
2011-05-11, 17:44
Wow! You should really check this! It seems that "santaclaus" is finally coming: wirelessgoodness.com/2011/05/11/nokias-n9-meego-smartphone-hits-the-fcc/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

EDIT: Added smileys: :D:D:D:D:D:D

azkay
2011-05-11, 17:56
Looks like ill be sticking with my N900 for awhile, then.

I think the N9 looks ugly.

tomchiverton
2011-05-11, 18:04
You know what ? I might just buy this. Even as a dead-end end-of-line product, the geek in me *wants*.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/08/10x0819fsn97c2106.jpg

richwhite
2011-05-11, 18:08
It's going to be a tough call for me for sure. I was intending on getting a WP7 Nokia, use the N900 with my work SIM and divert calls to the WP7, so that i have all the benefits of the N900 and a primary phone on top. This confuses the issue no end... i don't really want another unsupported OS but i do want it too. Have to see how good it is hardware wise and what Nokia have to say about supporting it and what people think of it.

ETA: looks like Elop was full of crap when he said MeeGo wasn't far enough along - odds are this will be out before WP7 devices. I know it's not actual MeeGo, but damn, it is a high end OS that presumably can be upgraded to full MeeGo when the time is right

droitwichgas
2011-05-11, 18:09
Have Nokia serously just dusted off a 12 month old device as there first meego phone, which looks just like the E7 anyway? Lets hope the hardware insdie has been updated or otherwise sellig the rumoured 92K units maybe difficult for Nokia.

tomchiverton
2011-05-11, 18:13
Have to see how good it is hardware wise and what Nokia have to say about supporting it and what people think of it.

I expect the design will be awesome - Nokia have always been good there. Why MIcrosoft would let Nokia carry on producing and supporting a non-Microsoft operating system I have no idea.
I can only assume there is a legal reason for producing a MeeGo phone, maybe something between Nokia and Intel. But Nokia have dumped everything else (even QT (to a company noone has ever heard of) and Nokia Maps (to replace Bing maps in Windows mobile) ) like a hot potato.

stickymick
2011-05-11, 18:13
i don't really want another unsupported OS but i do want it too.t

Don't forget, MeeGo is not solely a Nokia venture. We could still have access to updates etc from Intel for example.

Looks like an all metal case to me. Keypad looks a little out of the norm too with the Ctrl key where it is.

Hope they do it in black. Might consider it then.

tomchiverton
2011-05-11, 18:19
It looks a lot like the E7 hardware to me: http://www.nokia.co.uk/search?wsid=1207&charset=UTF-8&GO.y=0&GO.x=0&qt=e7
which is perfectly fine.

wmarone
2011-05-11, 18:21
Don't forget, MeeGo is not solely a Nokia venture. We could still have access to updates etc from Intel for example.

Don't forget that this is not MeeGo. It's Harmattan, which is Maemo with the MeeGo APIs. However they will be porting the MeeGo DE to the device, which could be used as a very good basis for a community supported platform (especially if the MeeGo project has rights to rebuild/redistribute any non-open bits.)

But any buy would happen ONLY if the above were true AND it significantly exceeded the N900's capabilities.

richwhite
2011-05-11, 18:24
Don't forget, MeeGo is not solely a Nokia venture. We could still have access to updates etc from Intel for example.

.

Yes i've wondered about that, so it could be interesting to see how this unfolds. Maybe hear next week?
But as this isn't a true MeeGo phone but is Harmattan, maybe it won't receive the updates. Have to see. If it can do what the N900 can do but with updated hardware and can receive MeeGo updates from Intel, i will want it.

evan
2011-05-11, 18:25
checking those fcc papers, they mention the bl-4d 1200mah battery, while those pics of last summer mentioned an unknown 1320mah bv-4d battery.

wmarone
2011-05-11, 18:28
Though the FCC listing is interesting, as it gives us a date we can actually see things:

Exhibit Type File Type File Size Description Submission Date Permanent
Confidential Short-Term Confidential Date Available
External Photos Adobe Acrobat PDF 537150 external photos 05/10/2011 No Yes 06/24/2011
Internal Photos Adobe Acrobat PDF 1720041 internal photos 05/10/2011 No Yes 06/24/2011

mrsellout
2011-05-11, 18:28
The FCC papers mention the BL-4D battery used in the N8, E7, N97 and E5. But this is a downgrade in terms of capacity from 1320mAh on the n900's BL-5J to 1200mAH. I hope they managed to hone the power consumption on this device.

richwhite
2011-05-11, 18:30
The FCC papers mention the BL-4D battery used in the N8, E7, N97 and E5. But this is a downgrade in terms of capacity from 1320mAh on the n900's BL-5J to 1200mAH. I hope they managed to hone the power consumption on this device.

Well the N8 has far superior battery life to the N900 and N97 and even 5800

jessi3k3
2011-05-11, 18:47
Have Nokia serously just dusted off a 12 month old device as there first meego phone, which looks just like the E7 anyway? Lets hope the hardware insdie has been updated or otherwise sellig the rumoured 92K units maybe difficult for Nokia.
This is exactly how I feel. We're talking about perhaps early 2010-late 2009 hardware in mid 2011. (From the maemo summit in 09, the hardware may have already been finalized after that) The hardware will be outdated upon release, but at the state at which technology improves, what hardware isnt already outdated?

zehjotkah
2011-05-11, 19:00
This is exactly how I feel. We're talking about perhaps early 2010-late 2009 hardware in mid 2011. (From the maemo summit in 09, the hardware may have already been finalized after that) The hardware will be outdated upon release, but at the state at which technology improves, what hardware isnt already outdated?

wait with judging until you see the hardware.

Cthulhu
2011-05-11, 19:08
At one time there were rumors that the N9 had been cancelled, so hopefully they ditched the 2009/2010 internal HW and updated it to current standards and kept the slick casing/external HW. That design with a powerful dual-core CPU, a likewise powerful GPU and plenty of memory would be sweet.

I just can't make up my mind wether I want to give Nokia any money at all out of fear that it goes towards their M$ winblows fail 7 endeavours. Buying their Harmattan/MeeGo phone might send them a signal about customer preferences, though.

cfh11
2011-05-11, 19:12
the following will be necessary for me to consider buying:

1) HW keyboard
2) qHD display
3) A modern processor (pref. dual core) and GPU with plenty of RAM
4) Screen size of at least 4"

tomchiverton
2011-05-11, 19:41
Who cares about how many cores or a discrete GPU ? If it runs smooth and can drive a HDMI display without looking stupid, it's good.

1 and 2 would be a given for the N9 I guess.

As to giving Nokia money... yeah, I worry it'll end up funding MS crap, but otoh if I buy a nice Linux device from them and then never any MS stuff, that does indeed send a message.

cheve
2011-05-11, 19:54
the following will be necessary for me to consider buying:

1) HW keyboard
2) qHD display
3) A modern processor (pref. dual core) and GPU with plenty of RAM
4) Screen size of at least 4"

plus official USB host mode support; otherwise, for my use case, it would be almost no difference than my current N900

RWFarley
2011-05-11, 19:59
The FCC papers mention the BL-4D battery used in the N8, E7, N97 and E5. But this is a downgrade in terms of capacity from 1320mAh on the n900's BL-5J to 1200mAH. I hope they managed to hone the power consumption on this device.

So long as it's user swappable I'm still in the game. I have 3 batteries and if I'm not at work, I'll always use at least two....

richwhite
2011-05-11, 20:01
I would be surprised if this had lower media specs than the N8, which would be HDMI, usb OTG, fm transmitter, outstanding camera, HD recording and so on. I don't care if it's dual core this or that, sure it'll be compared to the SG2 but Nokia excel at having lower processors because the OSs actually run well - if it doesn't need 1.2GHz to run, i'll be pleased with the extra battery life.

I'd like to be as open as Maemo 5 but more mainstream consumer friendly too. Sadly, though, i can't see this getting too much promotion from Nokia

Stonik
2011-05-11, 20:02
From mynokiablog.org:

http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/nokia-n9502-600x584.jpg
http://mynokiablog.com/2011/05/11/nokia-rm-680nokia-n950n9-passes-fcc-looks-like-the-qwerty-n9-leaked-from-last-year/

And also:

http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/n950-600x291.jpg
http://mynokiablog.com/2011/05/11/rumours-meegoharmattan-nokia-n950-4g-smartphone-releasing-this-summer/

RWFarley
2011-05-11, 20:05
the following will be necessary for me to consider buying:

1) HW keyboard
2) qHD display
3) A modern processor (pref. dual core) and GPU with plenty of RAM
4) Screen size of at least 4"

Hear hear! Add a Compass and my check list is almost complete!

wmarone
2011-05-11, 20:16
Who cares about how many cores or a discrete GPU ? If it runs smooth and can drive a HDMI display without looking stupid, it's good.
Lots of people care about those, and now that the market has a number available then releasing old hardware just makes you look bad.

With luck, they've reused the chassis but updated the guts. I hope so, OMAP3 will be a joke otherwise.

jah25
2011-05-11, 20:20
Woohoo, finally! I'm most likely buyin if it's out by July.

tissot
2011-05-11, 20:23
Lots of people care about those, and now that the market has a number available then releasing old hardware just makes you look bad.

With luck, they've reused the chassis but updated the guts. I hope so, OMAP3 will be a joke otherwise.

I'm very surprised that RM-680 is still coming out. FCC talks about RM-680_3. that version was running on the mailing lists about the time the pic of RM-680 leaked. TI workforce where everywhere on the mailing lists just like on the previous versions of RM-680.

Dsmobile from MR forums is saying that he is still certain that we wont see RM-680, but the qwertyless, Lankku.

larux
2011-05-11, 20:26
Found hints abt keyboard:

The device has internal antennas for both cellular and WLAN use. The cellular antenna is located
at the bottom in the back section of the keypad slide. The WLAN antenna is located at the top in
the back section of the keypad slide

GOOD! Keyboard is #1 factor besides community why I still use this excellent piece of technology called N900

:D:D:D

IsaacDFP
2011-05-11, 20:33
One of all, wow, you guys are fast, lol, i just heard about the news and came here.
Secondly, I am confused... what is the (rumored) difference between the N9 (which I thought was originally no longer in existence) and the N950 (which was officially "mentioned") ?
And I believe no matter how good the OS optimization is, it must have a minimum of 64GB storage, dual-core, a great gpu and lots of ram. Because knowing the community, we are gonna abuse this device, lol. I, for one, will research so much into making it run multiple OSes.

charbar
2011-05-11, 20:44
seems so easy to jump on any flaws already!

im just glad something is actually brewing and we're hearing more about an actual device as opposed to rumors. here's to hoping its indeed a meego device

droitwichgas
2011-05-11, 20:44
One of all, wow, you guys are fast, lol, i just heard about the news and came here.
Secondly, I am confused... what is the (rumored) difference between the N9 (which I thought was originally no longer in existence) and the N950 (which was officially "mentioned") ?
And I believe no matter how good the OS optimization is, it must have a minimum of 64GB storage, dual-core, a great gpu and lots of ram. Because knowing the community, we are gonna abuse this device, lol. I, for one, will research so much into making it run multiple OSes.

Sounds like the N9 & the N950 are one and the same device now.

As far as your spec is concerned think about this logically is Elop going to allow the Nokia meego device be far superior to anything running M$ in a few moths time, that would be a marketing disaster for nokia & M$?

Looking on the bright side for any N900 users the nearer the spec to our phones the better as we should then be able to run Meego OS apps etc made for the new device

richwhite
2011-05-11, 20:48
Sounds like the N9 & the N950 are one and the same device now.

As far as your spec is concerned think about this logically is Elop going to allow the Nokia meego device be far superior to anything running M$ in a few moths time, that would be a marketing disaster for nokia & M$?

Looking on the bright side for any N900 users the nearer the spec to our phones the better as we should then be able to run Meego OS apps etc made for the new device

Elop will still want to make returns on the device though, and there is no reason why the above specs cannot be included for a WP7 device i.e. those specs don't have to be superior to WP7 at all

mikecomputing
2011-05-11, 20:51
I expect the design will be awesome - Nokia have always been good there. Why MIcrosoft would let Nokia carry on producing and supporting a non-Microsoft operating system I have no idea.
I can only assume there is a legal reason for producing a MeeGo phone, maybe something between Nokia and Intel. But Nokia have dumped everything else (even QT (to a company noone has ever heard of) and Nokia Maps (to replace Bing maps in Windows mobile) ) like a hot potato.


Wrong OviMaps will MERGE with Microsoft. Thats one of the reason Microsoft was soo desperate. Microsoft needs that.


Sold QT what the hell are you talking about? Link please?

BigBadGuber!
2011-05-11, 20:53
This phone will be the stuff of legends!

mikecomputing
2011-05-11, 21:02
Don't forget that this is not MeeGo. It's Harmattan, which is Maemo with the MeeGo APIs. However they will be porting the MeeGo DE to the device, which could be used as a very good basis for a community supported platform (especially if the MeeGo project has rights to rebuild/redistribute any non-open bits.)

But any buy would happen ONLY if the above were true AND it significantly exceeded the N900's capabilities.

I am sure most of the libs and UI in harmattan willl be released for Meego.

Except those "apps" that is not allowed to be opensourced. But I dont see them as "Harmattan core" anyway.

I am expecting a Nokia:s "Qt-components for Meego" in the GIT repository in about two weeks from now. And that means Harmattan in the most is already merged too meego IF intel(and the community) allows them too add it to Meego 1.3.

mikecomputing
2011-05-11, 21:05
Yes i've wondered about that, so it could be interesting to see how this unfolds. Maybe hear next week?
But as this isn't a true MeeGo phone but is Harmattan, maybe it won't receive the updates. Have to see. If it can do what the N900 can do but with updated hardware and can receive MeeGo updates from Intel, i will want it.

Intel is for sure not intrested to support that one. Remember Intel is a HW manufactor and if this rumors are true Nxx is ARM based so why would Intel bother support Nxx?

droitwichgas
2011-05-11, 21:15
Elop will still want to make returns on the device though, and there is no reason why the above specs cannot be included for a WP7 device i.e. those specs don't have to be superior to WP7 at all

Not sure Elop does want to make a return, if he does why do it so low key, I sense he is just doing it because it is part of the Intel agreement or Nokia insis he does in case they fall out with him & M$.

Assuming Meego os is an improvement on maemo os then I can see it being a far superior os to WP7 running on similar hardware. If not we may as well just by a WP7 device anyway as no doubt it will have far greater support.

larux
2011-05-11, 21:15
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/11/nokia-n9-hits-the-fcc-packs-more-bands-than-a-rubber-tree/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+engadget%2FOzKy+%28Engadget%2 9&utm_content=Twitter

Last we heard, the Nokia N9 rode Stephen Elop's burning platform into the sunset, never to be seen again. Today, there's a FCC filing that begs to differ. Wireless Goodness spotted that RM-680 in the always-helpful government database, where it claims support for six cellular frequencies as well as Bluetooth and 2.4GHz 802.11 b/g/n WiFi -- enough to appear on most any GSM carrier, to say nothing of AT&T and T-Mobile. Will the MeeGo-packing QWERTY-sliding hardware that Eldar Murtazin called "near perfect" appear in the US or Canada one day? We don't think it's terribly likely, but if it comes with a dash of Windows Phone 7 on board, we can't promise not to jump for joy. See the full list of bands after the break.

:D:D
King is back!

MINKIN2
2011-05-11, 21:21
Found hints abt keyboard:



GOOD! Keyboard is #1 factor besides community why I still use this excellent piece of technology called N900

:D:D:D

+1 for keyboard hints. Looking at their Test 1 sheet, they have tested and passed the device in all manner of postitions, even in Flipped/Open state...
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/eas/GetApplicationAttachment.html?id=1462095

mikecomputing
2011-05-11, 21:23
Lots of people care about those, and now that the market has a number available then releasing old hardware just makes you look bad.

With luck, they've reused the chassis but updated the guts. I hope so, OMAP3 will be a joke otherwise.

Yes for the masses and idiots that buys "newest coolest specs" and Androids because of dualcore it "may look bad"

But fact is this handset can be more optimized for the CPU/GPU than new hardware with DualCore and so on. Are we even sure Android is optimized for those DualCores comming atm?

Personally I am perfecly fine with a small upgrade of the CPU/GPU.

As long as it has it has good HWkey, bigger screen and better batterytime and the MeegoHarmattan runs smothly like in the case of N900.

I mean N900 still can compete with some crap Androids released today.

richwhite
2011-05-11, 21:26
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/11/nokia-n9-hits-the-fcc-packs-more-bands-than-a-rubber-tree/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+engadget%2FOzKy+%28Engadget%2 9&utm_content=Twitter



:D:D
King is back!

Holy hell, if the people on Engadget are supporting it, quite simply if this doesn't get promoted and supported, Elop is on another planet

mmurfin87
2011-05-11, 21:26
I know it's not actual MeeGo, but damn, it is a high end OS that presumably can be upgraded to full MeeGo when the time is right

Its Nokia. Don't presume anything or you're going to get f***ed in the a**.

wmarone
2011-05-11, 21:28
Yes for the masses and idiots that buys "newest coolest specs" and Androids because of dualcore it "may look bad"
It doesn't matter. They will be criticized for being behind if it uses a 2 year old single core processor. Personally, I'd like a spec bump beyond a basic clock increase.

But fact is this handset can be more optimized for the CPU/GPU than new hardware with DualCore and so on.
You can only get so much out of optimization, after which you must improve the hardware.

Are we even sure Android is optimized for those DualCores comming atm?
Doubtful. But MeeGo inherently will be from the get-go.

I mean N900 still can compete with some crap Androids released today.
Yes, compete with crap. That's exactly what Nokia wants to do.

Or you could be right, and Nokia could just dump a sad, underpowered device out there and walk away to promise a brighter future for Windows Phone.

richwhite
2011-05-11, 21:36
Seeing this and all the hype about MeeGo/Maemo 6 over on that engadget page really makes me sad all over again that Nokia went WP7. This could have so, so much hype and word of mouth promotion. And even then, i have no problem with them making WP7, but i would like clarification on the situation, because Elop hasn't said whether or not they'll make exclusively WP7, or just replace Symbian with it and also have MeeGo when it's ready. It's all speculated so far.

And of course the other question is that of apps - will the Maemo 5 apps run on it, will the Intel apps run on it, and will big names develop for it?

tissot
2011-05-11, 21:46
Well this spec discussion has been discussed so many times so why not repeat my self like everybody else.

As this will very likely be the last and first MeeGo device from Nokia why not have some real umph inside. If it will have HDMI out(it better have) there's also things like pushing 1080 out of that port that example OMAP36xx simply can't do.

Also while i totally agree that the Android CPU madness isn't keeping up with the software at all at the moment and unfortunately Apple will come behind Android with iphone 5 and again actually got soft that's ready for it. Part of Nokia's receant downfall is this "it's enough" thing. So far it unfortunately just hasn't been enough.

mikecomputing
2011-05-11, 21:47
Seeing this and all the hype about MeeGo/Maemo 6 over on that engadget page really makes me sad all over again that Nokia went WP7. This could have so, so much hype and word of mouth promotion. And even then, i have no problem with them making WP7, but i would like clarification on the situation, because Elop hasn't said whether or not they'll make exclusively WP7, or just replace Symbian with it and also have MeeGo when it's ready. It's all speculated so far.

And of course the other question is that of apps - will the Maemo 5 apps run on it, will the Intel apps run on it, and will big names develop for it?

The opensource community who prefer the most open platform will develop for it. Even if some apps will is closed Maemo/Meego is more open than Android.

Apps writted in Qt(Quick) in Maemo will work from begining. apps written in old Gtk+ API will have problems but it should be that hard for the community to add those libs in extras-devel.

Both OS:es is using X11 and most of the Linux libs are the same as in Meego/Maemo.

I dont see any problems with community not supporting it. Problem is more like: when the hell Nokia will release it? or IF they even will release it?

I mean the FCC seems true but it could be some ****ing WP7 prototype too.

Jedibeeftrix
2011-05-11, 21:48
i really don't understand all the scepticism about whether it will get released.

Nokia's own released documents indicate an ongoing investment into Meego/QT in the region of $200m/year.

Meego hasn't gone, it has just failed to become Nokia's major ecosystem with which it intends to compete with IOS and android.

http://jedibeeftrix.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/nokia-microsoft-and-what-it-means-for-qt-and-meego/

wmarone
2011-05-11, 21:49
Nokia's own released documents indicate an ongoing investment into Meego/QT in the region of $200m/year.

And they've already announced that they'll be getting out of it completely within the next year and a half. Microsoft doesn't want Nokia to have any outs like MeeGo.

This will be released, and they'll support it until it gets EOL'd and walk away.

richwhite
2011-05-11, 21:50
The opensourtce community who prefer the most open platform will develop for it.

Apps writted in Qt(Quick) in Maemo will work from begining. apps written in old Gtk+ API will have problems but it should be that hard for the community to add those libs in extras-devel.

Both OS:es is using X11 and most of the Linux libs are the same as in Meego/Maemo.

I dont see any problems with community not supporting it. Problem is more like: when the hell Nokia will release it? or IF they even will release it?

I mean the FCC seems true but it could be some ****ing WP7 prototype too.

So in other words, it'll be a community effort for apps again?

They'll release it, and as has been said, i see little reason for WP7 requiring such hardware. Nokia has stated it will release a MeeGo device, this is no doubt it. Besides, i'm pretty sure that a WP7 device by Nokia will be called a 'W8' or something

TheLongshot
2011-05-11, 21:57
And they've already announced that they'll be getting out of it completely within the next year and a half. Microsoft doesn't want Nokia to have any outs like MeeGo.

This will be released, and they'll support it until it gets EOL'd and walk away.

They'd be fools for doing it. Just about everyone who has made a Windows phone has eventually moved on to another OS. Betting everything on an OS that you don't own is potential disaster.

richwhite
2011-05-11, 21:58
i really don't understand all the scepticism about whether it will get released.

Nokia's own released documents indicate an ongoing investment into Meego/QT in the region of $200m/year.

Meego hasn't gone, it has just failed to become Nokia's major ecosystem with which it intends to compete with IOS and android.

http://jedibeeftrix.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/nokia-microsoft-and-what-it-means-for-qt-and-meego/

But will they continue to support this one or just release it because they have to?

richwhite
2011-05-11, 22:01
Yes, but actually they say that they wouldnīt be sad if this had Windows Phone 7 on it. So theyīre not jumping out in support of Meego-Harmattan as such. Just a pretty looking device.

We don't think it's terribly likely, but if it comes with a dash of Windows Phone 7 on board, we can't promise not to jump for joy.

Sorry, i meant the comments, not the bloggers

mece
2011-05-11, 22:02
I must say I am very very hopeful after looking at the FCC reports. I feared the keyboardless Lankku was the one nokia "MeeGo" device to be released.

Anyway, here's what I gather are the commonly believed facts:

- To everyone's surprise It's a revision of the N9 we were all drooling over a year ago. (source: FCC report (https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=233837&fcc_id=%27LJPRM-680%27) combined with year old highly detailed leaked photos (http://nokiasaga.com/nokia-n9-leaked-in-wild-hq-pics-video))
- It will run Maemo6 aka Harmattan and not MeeGo (or WP7) (source: maemo community mailing lists (http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2011-May/004793.html))
- It will be announced very soon, possibly 17th of may or during MeeGo conf in San Francisco (source: Zehjotkah's tweets (http://twitter.com/zehjotkah))

I'm very excited. :-)

EDIT: In regards to Nok not going forward with MeeGo in a large scale: It doesn't bother me at all, as long as they keep making these niche, high quality linux devices and release every 2 years or so like they have been doing since 2005. I don't want stuff made for masses, I want stuff made for me. Like the N900. :)

EDIT2: The name of the device is yet to be determined. The Rich Green coined "N950" was, as I understood it, done to illustrate how the device is a natural successor to the N900. He even gestured towards airquotes. Anyway I'm guessing N9, since it was written on the prototype from last year.

Jedibeeftrix
2011-05-11, 22:06
And they've already announced that they'll be getting out of it completely within the next year and a half. Microsoft doesn't want Nokia to have any outs like MeeGo.

This will be released, and they'll support it until it gets EOL'd and walk away.

i haven't read anything that isn't rank speculation which contradicts any of what what nokia said on feb 11th.

what do you know?

mikelima
2011-05-11, 22:13
It doesn't matter. They will be criticized for being behind if it uses a 2 year old single core processor. Personally, I'd like a spec bump beyond a basic clock increase.

Why should this matter? Nokia is not competing on Meego devices.

This device is not going to be promoted at all.

The only question is if it is interesting on its own.

Personally, if it is at least as open as the N900 and if it gets cheap enough it could be an interesting replacement if my N900 dies.

But hopefully there will be alternatives...

Rugoz
2011-05-11, 22:14
I really hope the N950 will still run meego. I fear they put WP7 on it and recycled the old N9 design for meego...

sony123
2011-05-11, 22:18
Nokia support is useless... QT support is more important.
With continued QT support, I see no problem for CSSU on Harmattan, maybe even a merged effort with Meego DE on RM680.

Jedibeeftrix
2011-05-11, 22:24
But will they continue to support this one or just release it because they have to?

given that their own documents indicate a continued invested to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars a year i am not too worried.

AndyNokia232
2011-05-11, 22:44
I'm excited. And if this does actually get released this year but doesn't stand up to my hopes and dreams (and of everyone here), I'll happily return it and keep using my N900. But I AM excited...! :)

droll
2011-05-11, 22:46
EDIT: In regards to Nok not going forward with MeeGo in a large scale: It doesn't bother me at all, as long as they keep making these niche, high quality linux devices and release every 2 years or so like they have been doing since 2005. I don't want stuff made for masses, I want stuff made for me. Like the N900. :)

finally, someone who makes sense! yes!!!! i want something made for me. not made for the masses. who cares about the latter? i buy a phone because it works for ME!!! :)

maxximuscool
2011-05-11, 22:49
My hardware prediction:

Processor: Ti 36xx 1Ghz + PowerVGR540
RAM: 512MB
Camera: 5MP-Rear-LED flash (720p 25fps) + 0.6Mp-Font
Screen: Capacitive touch 4" 800x400
Internal: 16GB or 32GB
OS: Harmattan MeeGo transition
Supported media: 720p
WLAN: b/g/N
Bluetooth: 2.1
Extention: MicroSD


Here is the link: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277330

kolos
2011-05-11, 22:58
If you check this photo (http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277330) and this one (http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277342), you will notice that keyboard cover (white part) is not the same shape.

EDIT: It is the same, just turned around (back and front) :rolleyes:

maxximuscool
2011-05-11, 23:02
If you check this photo (http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277330) and this one (http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277342), you will notice that keyboard cover (white part) is not the same shape.

EDIT: It is the same, just turned around (back and front) :rolleyes:

What not the same shape about it? Looks the same to me.

Here I made a bit of change to the picture and now see how is it not the same.

Dragoss91
2011-05-11, 23:05
If you check this photo (http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277330) and this one (http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277342), you will notice that keyboard cover (white part) is not the same shape.

EDIT: It is the same, just turned around (back and front) :rolleyes:

Actually in the second photo it's same keyboard cover but turned upside down :D:D:D

maxximuscool
2011-05-11, 23:08
Forgot the link. I alter the top right a little
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/nokian9502600x584.jpg/

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9577/nokian9502600x584.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/nokian9502600x584.jpg/)

richwhite
2011-05-11, 23:13
finally, someone who makes sense! yes!!!! i want something made for me. not made for the masses. who cares about the latter? i buy a phone because it works for ME!!! :)

agreed, but some app support would be nice i must admit

maxximuscool
2011-05-11, 23:20
This device will have worst support than Nokia N900. Nokia will drop its balls 6months after the release date. Will only be used by geeks, linux guru and fanboys. Though, the OS will be opened, but not everything else like applications will be partially just like N900. Hardware wise this device will always be closed and don't even dream of Flash10 or downloadable applications

Those are my predictions

whayong
2011-05-11, 23:28
I really just need turn by turn voice navigation and pentaband on m N900.

jflatt
2011-05-11, 23:37
This device will have worst support than Nokia N900. Nokia will drop its balls 6months after the release date. Will only be used by geeks, linux guru and fanboys. Though, the OS will be opened, but not everything else like applications will be partially just like N900. Hardware wise this device will always be closed and don't even dream of Flash10 or downloadable applications

Those are my predictionsPerfect !

quipper8
2011-05-11, 23:37
money waiting.

dear nokia/warehouse/shipper employee,

put a few on ebay early for ridiculous price, I will buy one.

gabby131
2011-05-11, 23:38
uhhh?? yey??? well im gonna get this one instead of any android device.....(almost purchased one).

i hope...well i wont hold my breath that this would be at least like an N900 with upgraded hardware.....or different :)

maxximuscool
2011-05-11, 23:46
I would only buy it if Nokia allowing the equal value trade-in of my N900.
Got my N900 for $479USD and If they want me to buy this then I'd swap. Not because I don't like N900 but I want something abit up to date.

Oh what the heck, N9 will be like a cheapy android :) I doubt it will worth more than $500USD at launch. Since all other Android (LG and SONY) dual cores are about that price. With all the rubbish hardware blast from the past, it will probably hard to take a flight.

Edit: My heart still set with SGSII

mscion
2011-05-12, 00:25
It will be Sisyphus all over again!

I just love it!

richwhite
2011-05-12, 00:37
I really just need turn by turn voice navigation and pentaband on m N900.

Pentaband? This is hexaband

aironeous
2011-05-12, 00:44
Didn't intel say as soon as Nokia said they are dropping meego the other manufacturers changed their minds about not making meego phones and started showing interest?
I think they didn't want to get involved with meego because of fear Nokia would have too much control over the OS.
If that's true then releasing this device and then dropping meego and standing back and watching where the other manufacturers are going to take meego and coming back into the game 2 years later if they have to drop microsoft or even start making dual boot phones would seem like a "keep your options open" strategy.

olympus
2011-05-12, 00:49
I'm just afraid that it'll come with that idiotic EDoF camera.

Mike Fila
2011-05-12, 00:59
Anything about an IR port?

sevla
2011-05-12, 02:55
Don't forget that this is not MeeGo. It's Harmattan, which is Maemo with the MeeGo APIs. However they will be porting the MeeGo DE to the device, which could be used as a very good basis for a community supported platform (especially if the MeeGo project has rights to rebuild/redistribute any non-open bits.)

But any buy would happen ONLY if the above were true AND it significantly exceeded the N900's capabilities.

THis is incorrect. Quim has said that although the code is not entirely Meego it is also no where near Maemo. In reality it is more meego then maemo5. People need to just accept that.

Also,. Nokia plans to make it compatible with the official Meego builds so that it will get updates, etc..

onethreealpha
2011-05-12, 03:05
Pentaband? This is hexaband

I think the pentband reference is to umts.
If the n900 had 850/2100, I wouldn't be looking for a new device for another 5 years

richwhite
2011-05-12, 03:10
I think the pentband reference is to umts.
If the n900 had 850/2100, I wouldn't be looking for a new device for another 5 years

According to the Engadget post, this is hexaband while others haven't even done pentaband yet.

richwhite
2011-05-12, 03:11
THis is incorrect. Quim has said that although the code is not entirely Meego it is also no where near Maemo. In reality it is more meego then maemo5. People need to just accept that.

Also,. Nokia plans to make it compatible with the official Meego builds so that it will get updates, etc..

So even if Nokia drop support for this it'll still get updates as MeeGo develops?

Pillum
2011-05-12, 03:39
I see no references to an FM Transmitter...does this mean this wont have some or isn't it the task of the FCC to check this too?

olighak
2011-05-12, 04:07
I see no references to an FM Transmitter...does this mean this wont have some or isn't it the task of the FCC to check this too?

FM transmitters are tested as well, and would be mentioned.

See the test reports for the N900:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=829132&fcc_id=%27LJPRX-51%27

So if thereīs a chip in there that can transmit on FM then there are no drivers for it and no intentions to make it usable at all.

railroadmaster
2011-05-12, 04:12
Wow it Nokia this long, finally a MeeGo device to sink my teeth into.

daperl
2011-05-12, 04:15
Who cares about how many cores or a discrete GPU ?

Those of us that follow and have a solid understanding of technology do. We're multitaskers and we need multitasking monsters that are very responsive while running a desktop-quality OS.

Multicores, DSPs, GPUs, oh my!

richwhite
2011-05-12, 04:28
FM transmitters are tested as well, and would be mentioned.

See the test reports for the N900:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=829132&fcc_id=%27LJPRX-51%27

So if thereīs a chip in there that can transmit on FM then there are no drivers for it and no intentions to make it usable at all.

So basically this won't have an FM transmitter? Damn...

BigBadGuber!
2011-05-12, 04:44
It will be the stuff of legends. Period. Whoever doubts it is a major loser!

jo21
2011-05-12, 05:13
qwerty good camera + xenon class :< i will jump on a dead platform again.

never on wp7 though

Pillum
2011-05-12, 05:29
what if its able to run MeeGo with all functions and features?

tirtawn
2011-05-12, 05:31
It will be the stuff of legends. Period. Whoever doubts it is a major loser!

Hm............we shall see about that. You will be surprised with Nokia. Sometimes I am not sure what are they thinking. lets see whether they are going to give "better processor", memory and better LCD. Otherwise will stick with n900.

geohsia
2011-05-12, 06:00
qwerty good camera + xenon class :< i will jump on a dead platform again.

never on wp7 though

I agree. The possibility of RAW with a decent camera (no weird vignetting issue like we have with the N900) would get me back on the platform.

IcyMoustache
2011-05-12, 06:34
for all you know the Elop bi@ch might have intended this for his Microsoft dickOS...

Dont get ur hopes too high for this shitnokia..

zehjotkah
2011-05-12, 06:41
for all you know the Elop bi@ch might have intended this for his Microsoft dickOS...

Dont get ur hopes too high for this shitnokia..

won't run WinPhone7

OVK
2011-05-12, 06:50
(source: Zehjotkah's tweets (http://twitter.com/zehjotkah))

There are some interesting pieces of information...

blipnl
2011-05-12, 06:56
My hardware prediction:

Processor: Ti 36xx 1Ghz + PowerVGR540
RAM: 512MB
Camera: 5MP-Rear-LED flash (720p 25fps) + 0.6Mp-Font
Screen: Capacitive touch 4" 800x400
Internal: 16GB or 32GB
OS: Harmattan MeeGo transition
Supported media: 720p
WLAN: b/g/N
Bluetooth: 2.1
Extention: MicroSD

Here is the link: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokias-qwerty-slidin-n9-shows-up-in-the-wilds-of-china/#3277330

If that is (close to) truth, I feel almoast no urge to update my thrustworthy n900 for this.

CPU @1GHz? done that.
5Mpix? You kidding me right?
Bigger screen is better, but the pixel density is noticalby worse, not to mention the awekward precision of capacitive screens..
The rest is somewhat comparable and therefore outdated, but I still can't jump to conclusions yet, gotte see how and if MeeGo will fit in this picture.

Stonik
2011-05-12, 06:58
Mark Guim (the Nokia Blog) says, that the new device will be given to devs first and won't be available for consumers until some time after. Their 'tipster' has said that Nokia won't announce it at the MeeGo Conference, but he - as we all - hope the tipster is wrong.

Personally - I probably wouldn't buy N9/N950 if it was using single core processor. Dual core A9 + SGX543, thank you.

maakoi
2011-05-12, 07:09
Does anyone actually have any facts that dual-core processors are necessarily any faster or energy-efficient than single core? I personally think that there's more to hardware than just "easy-to-compare" numbers, and drooling over a quad-core just tells that one understands less than he thinks he does.

I still think the N900 is close to perfect, if it just had an even better camera and ovi maps navigation.
-Ok ok, I admit that some hardware aspects could be tweaked.

slender
2011-05-12, 07:19
What apps are optimized for dual ARM processors? Is Android or Meego optimized for dual processors? Is there real-life benchmarks on identical systems except on CPU?

I also would like to have dual-core as must-have feature if my daily usage of N900 consisted packing/extracting of Large OS images and files. Also doing some encoding of audio/video could be boosted with high power cpu. Of course Desktop PC would do all that in 1/1000 of time but still... /sarcasm

What we need is optimized bug free code. Moreover taking advantage of all instruction sets that are already in CPU and GPU. Without doubt horsepower is also needed, but quality of code and moreover memory handling are probably key issues.

anonymous
2011-05-12, 07:20
http://i.imgur.com/KqW33.gif

snubmoggy
2011-05-12, 07:49
won't run WinPhone7

Is that 100% for sure? - that this phone can't run WP7?

While I would love to see meego I do fear that this could be the first WP7 phone.

Also, (what seems to be) an EDOF camera and no FM transmitter are starting to harness my excitement levels...

zehjotkah
2011-05-12, 07:55
Is that 100% for sure? - that this phone can't run WP7?

While I would love to see meego I do fear that this could be the first WP7 phone.

Also, (what seems to be) an EDOF camera and no FM transmitter are starting to harness my excitement levels...

Im repeating myself^^
No WP7 phone.
No EDOF camera
No FM-Transmitter only for dev-device (afaik)

edit: even if I wouldn't know some informations:
WP7 can't run properly in landscape atm. RM-680 is a landscape device.

snubmoggy
2011-05-12, 08:11
Im repeating myself^^
No WP7 phone.
No EDOF camera
No FM-Transmitter only for dev-device (afaik)

edit: even if I wouldn't know some informations:
WP7 can't run properly in landscape atm. RM-680 is a landscape device.

Repeating yourself isn't healthy...

Yes, no WP7 landscape at the moment. But there can be no doubt that Microsoft are working hard on a landscape orientation for future.

sony123
2011-05-12, 08:16
I'm confused reading zehjotkah's tweets.
The plan sounds so familiar with Maemo5, when originally we were hinted there would be two devices running M5. The 2nd device was said to be launched about half a year later than N900.

I am purely speculating.... seems like the plan is:
RM680: developer device, hw-wise not necessarily the same as N950 (no FM, maybe lesser CPU)
N950: Summer? Fall?
Second commercial device: Early 2012 depending on sale of N950?

Anyway, we'll know better the closer we get to the conference.

geohsia
2011-05-12, 09:07
What apps are optimized for dual ARM processors? Is Android or Meego optimized for dual processors? Is there real-life benchmarks on identical systems except on CPU?


Dual core is beneficial not just for multi-core optimized apps. How many people have / had the problem when the phone won't answer there are too many apps open and the phone rings but the interface doesn't respond. When I am driving, I use OVI maps (w/ GPS ), have Google Maps in the background because OVI Maps isn't always right, and am also streaming music in the background. In that state, any input is incredibly slow and difficult. Would dual core help? hope so. Dual-core is helpful for power users, which I thought was this group. I could be wrong.


What we need is optimized bug free code. Moreover taking advantage of all instruction sets that are already in CPU and GPU. Without doubt horsepower is also needed, but quality of code and moreover memory handling are probably key issues.

Sure, but how long did it take for the community to do that? As far as I know OVI maps is still a resource hog.

By your last statement you've probably given the greatest argument for dual-core. The fact of the matter is that Nokia does not plan on spending tons of resources on MeeGo. Right? Having said that Nokia once they get the checkmark (OVI Maps, web browser, and etc.) isn't going to spend a ton of time writing and re-writing code to make it super efficient. For what, 90k+ users? Give me a break. Until things get worked out, the software will likely be buggy and not optimized. You'll be glad for ever extra Megahertz you can get your hands on.

maakoi
2011-05-12, 09:22
Doesn't N900 actually have two separate cpus? The main one at 250-600 MHz and one at 400 for handling radio communications?

I have tried overclocking and must say that it doesn't speed up the device as much as expected. Possibly the the other components are optimized together with the cpu at 600, so when you overclock, other things become a bottleneck?

Sorry this was a bit off-topic

Jedibeeftrix
2011-05-12, 09:27
what i want from the n950

1. dual-core A9 - this may be all we get for a while, it needs legs!

2. 4" qHD screen - rockin like its 2007 with an 800x480 screen is not good enough.

3. oh yeah, it needs to run MeeGo - not interested in WP7

Prozac786
2011-05-12, 09:29
N9 prototype got fully developed and released as the E7. Nokia just changed the name.

It is no coincidence they looked very similar in the early N9 videos and they look exactly the same in the more recent 'N9' videos (before E7 release) where an unbranded 'N9' was actually running symbian as well, advertising everything the E7 could do, but because it had no name, the testing guy assumed it was the N9, which is true, Nokia just released it as an E7.

So whatever the 'N9' looks like in those videos, is actually the E7. If Nokia chooses to release an official N9, it wont look like the above image or videos because those videos of the 'N9' prototype are actually of the E7.

I'm surprised most people didn't work this out already.

mrsellout
2011-05-12, 09:46
N9 prototype got fully developed and released as the E7. Nokia just changed the name.

It is no coincidence they looked very similar in the early N9 videos and they look exactly the same in the more recent 'N9' videos (before E7 release) where an unbranded 'N9' was actually running symbian as well, advertising everything the E7 could do, but because it had no name, the testing guy assumed it was the N9, which is true, Nokia just released it as an E7.

So whatever the 'N9' looks like in those videos, is actually the E7. If Nokia chooses to release an official N9, it wont look like the above image or videos because those videos of the 'N9' prototype are actually of the E7.

I'm surprised most people didn't work this out already.

If you look at the endgadget post from last year they mention the RM-680 model number - the same one plastered all over the FCC docs. The backplate is near enough the same as that on the FCC doc. This is that device, no doubt about it.

mece
2011-05-12, 10:13
No FM-Transmitter only for dev-device (afaik)

Care to clarify this?
Does it mean:
a) it doesn't have fmtx, and there is a different developer device that has fmtx
b) it doesn't have fmtx, but it (being the device you have seen and/or used) is a developer device so we don't know if the final product has fmtx
c) it doesn't have an fmtx, nor will it or any special version of it, ever have one?

benny1967
2011-05-12, 10:29
I'm confused reading zehjotkah's tweets.

+1. ;)

(OTOH, this may have been part of his wicked plan. *LOL*)


The plan sounds so familiar with Maemo5, when originally we were hinted there would be two devices running M5. The 2nd device was said to be launched about half a year later than N900.

Yep. Still remember the "Maemo 5 lead device" and talk about software designers shouldn't take a hardware keyboard for granted and all that stuff. I was absolutely certain then there'd be a choice of Maemo-powered devices. Thank good there wasn't. I would have bought them all. :)

I am purely speculating.... seems like the plan is:
RM680: developer device, hw-wise not necessarily the same as N950 (no FM, maybe lesser CPU)
N950: Summer? Fall?
Second commercial device: Early 2012 depending on sale of N950?

Given that until now, I thought the official wording was "one more MeeGo-compatible device, then WP7 only", at least there's new hope. It could still be that there's only one last GNU/Linux based device from Nokia... but, hey!, at least there's fresh speculation!

blipnl
2011-05-12, 11:00
Need dual coar! Massiv multitasking FTW! Heavy distros, emulation, responsiveness under higher load etc! What fun is OC'ing a single 1GHz core? Titan knows what I'm saying.. ;) Oh and more RAM in the van for this man.

slender
2011-05-12, 11:05
Dual core is beneficial not just for multi-core optimized apps. How many people have / had the problem when the phone won't answer there are too many apps open and the phone rings but the interface doesn't respond.
We have had devices for ages that handle this kind of situations much better. It's more of optimized code issue than just "lets use bigger engine for that" issue.

When I am driving, I use OVI maps (w/ GPS ), have Google Maps in the background because OVI Maps isn't always right, and am also streaming music in the background. In that state, any input is incredibly slow and difficult. Would dual core help? hope so. Dual-core is helpful for power users, which I thought was this group. I could be wrong.
You belong to minority. Without doubt dual-core would benefit _you_ and also _me_. Stuff what you are doing is just way off "regular" usage.

Using bigger engine is just one part solution. I would put much much more emphasis on code optimization rather than "braindead" way of gazing just specs.

Sure, but how long did it take for the community to do that? As far as I know OVI maps is still a resource hog.

If you think that any of default apps on n900 are optimized to top then you should use other devices. For example composition is disabled. Test nitdroid and see that this device is able to deliver smooth experience. Try cloud gps and see how mapping sofware should behave on this device.

By your last statement you've probably given the greatest argument for dual-core. The fact of the matter is that Nokia does not plan on spending tons of resources on MeeGo. Right? Having said that Nokia once they get the checkmark (OVI Maps, web browser, and etc.) isn't going to spend a ton of time writing and re-writing code to make it super efficient. For what, 90k+ users? Give me a break. Until things get worked out, the software will likely be buggy and not optimized. You'll be glad for ever extra Megahertz you can get your hands on.


hmmm looks like we are talking about different pictures. I'm speaking in generally.

They will ship harmattan that should be Meego API compatible. Do you understand what meego stands for.

What I would emphasis is amount of memory and code quality over cpu speed which is of course also important. Actually I would gladly buy cheap medicore HW and pay monthly for support after some period of time. Bit like virus/gps software houses and more importantly I want to be able to choose software company that provides support.

vivmak
2011-05-12, 11:13
if it is as open as Maemo and contains features that Nokia omitted out of Maemo are included I would buy it else there is no point spending $$$ I would imagine it will upwards of $500 if at all released.

geohsia
2011-05-12, 11:27
We have had devices for ages that handle this kind of sitsuations much
better. It's more of optimized code issue than just "lets use bigger
engine for that" issue.

I don't disagree that we need optimization. Since that has not yet happened for the N900 why do we think it will happen for the N950?

For heavy users, how many are using Titan? Just so I can get smooth scrolling? Not to mention all of the other slowness issues.

You belong in minority. Without doubt dual-core would benefit _you_ and
also _me_. Stuff what you are doing is just way off "regular" usage.

This is the difference between Linux based multi-tasking vs iPhone multi-tasking. In OVI Maps if I want to surf the web, listen to music while tracking my location I just keep OVI Maps running. In the iPhone, Maps, closes but because it is context / state aware, when I switch back to it it returns back to my previous state. If I closed OVI Maps, I have to re-enter all of the addresses again and start from step 1 wheras the iPhone jumps back to where I was. I was on a roadtrip and frustrated as heck trying to get OVI back to the same spot whereas my iPhone friends could track location in seconds. I would then have to keep OVI maps on at all times thus my battery disappears in less than 2 hrs. Where as iPhone friends had not a care in the world. So because of Maemo / MeeGo's lack of state awareness (continuation) it is not unreasonable to expect to keep apps open a long time especially when you have a device that is specifically for that.

Using bigger engine is just one part solution. I would put much much
more emphasis on code optimization rather than "braindead" way of gazing just specs.

I would agree with you but facts are facts. Nokia is not investing so do you think they're going to optimize? I don't work for Nokia but I know the answer will be "NO." Haven't done it for the N900 and don't see them changing that tune.

If you think that any of default apps on n900 are optimized to top then
you should use other devices. For example composition is disabled. Test
nitdroid and see that this device is able to deliver smooth experience.
Try geeps and see how mapping sofware should behave on this device.

Read again what I"m saying I don't think the N900 apps are optimized at all which is why the N950 won't be either.

=hmmm looks like we are talking about different pictures. I'm speaking
in generally.

They will ship harmattan that should be Meego API compatible. Do you
understand what meego stands for.

I do and MeeGo has even less life than Maemo. At least when the N900 released they thought Maemo was the future, we know from Nokia's public statements that they're not investing much in MeeGo. What is it you don't understand about their statements toward their intentions?

What I would emphasise is amount of memory and ocde quality over cpu
speed which is of course also important. Actually I would gladly buy cheap medicore HW and pay monthly for support after some period of
time. Bit like virus/gps software houses and more importantly I want to
be able to choose software company that provides support.

I agree with you and would love to see that for MeeGo. If that's your deciding factor WP7 is for you. I don't want WP 7 and since there won't be any support for MeeGo like they WILL have for WP7, we need to gear up and load up on the cores. As many as will fit that's what I say.

slender
2011-05-12, 11:50
@geoshia
WTF. WP7 for me? Are you kidding me or did you not understand my last paragraph. Only way to get support from where ever you want is to use Open Source. Also I do not want Phone OS.

daperl
2011-05-12, 11:52
Even though these guys can't seem to get their packaging right, if you want to see a good example of developers that know how to program for devices like the n900, install mbarcode-core.

Bad code is bad code, but even great code can't always make up for lackluster hardware. The n900 is excellent, but it's time for the next step: More cores, more RAM. Oh yeah, and a compass.

vi_
2011-05-12, 12:11
I don't disagree that we need optimization. Since that has not yet happened for the N900 why do we think it will happen for the N950?

For heavy users, how many are using Titan? Just so I can get smooth scrolling? Not to mention all of the other slowness issues.



This is the difference between Linux based multi-tasking vs iPhone multi-tasking. In OVI Maps if I want to surf the web, listen to music while tracking my location I just keep OVI Maps running. In the iPhone, Maps, closes but because it is context / state aware, when I switch back to it it returns back to my previous state. If I closed OVI Maps, I have to re-enter all of the addresses again and start from step 1 wheras the iPhone jumps back to where I was. I was on a roadtrip and frustrated as heck trying to get OVI back to the same spot whereas my iPhone friends could track location in seconds. I would then have to keep OVI maps on at all times thus my battery disappears in less than 2 hrs. Where as iPhone friends had not a care in the world. So because of Maemo / MeeGo's lack of state awareness (continuation) it is not unreasonable to expect to keep apps open a long time especially when you have a device that is specifically for that.



I would agree with you but facts are facts. Nokia is not investing so do you think they're going to optimize? I don't work for Nokia but I know the answer will be "NO." Haven't done it for the N900 and don't see them changing that tune.



Read again what I"m saying I don't think the N900 apps are optimized at all which is why the N950 won't be either.



I do and MeeGo has even less life than Maemo. At least when the N900 released they thought Maemo was the future, we know from Nokia's public statements that they're not investing much in MeeGo. What is it you don't understand about their statements toward their intentions?



I agree with you and would love to see that for MeeGo. If that's your deciding factor WP7 is for you. I don't want WP 7 and since there won't be any support for MeeGo like they WILL have for WP7, we need to gear up and load up on the cores. As many as will fit that's what I say.

I WANTZ TETRATION P4 PREZCOTT CORZ AND 8 SNAPDRAGOONZ GPUz. SO ICAN MICRO TWEET ON MI FACEBLOG IN FLASH11 TO FASTER. ALSO GALLIUM NITRIDE PLATED QWERTIZ AN A PONI.

Stonik
2011-05-12, 12:21
1 GHz A8 core + PowerVR SGX540 is not a bad SoC at the moment, but the raw cpu power is just too close to OMAP3430 - even though stock N900 runs @600MHz. A smartphone is a long term investiment for me, and if I pay more than 500 euros for N9, a dual core SoC means it's proabably still usable in 2013 as dual core cpus have become mainstream.

I'm not going to buy an Android device because of Tegra 2 or OMAP4 chipsets; if N9 is single core, I'll stick with N900 - which is still a great device.

daperl
2011-05-12, 12:39
It's this simple for me: If you're gonna ask me to give up my built-in stylus, you better be bringing me an extra core, extra RAM, and of course, a compass in a pear tree. I would even let you forego the FM and IR transmitters, but that's it! :)

zehjotkah
2011-05-12, 13:45
N9 prototype got fully developed and released as the E7. Nokia just changed the name.

It is no coincidence they looked very similar in the early N9 videos and they look exactly the same in the more recent 'N9' videos (before E7 release) where an unbranded 'N9' was actually running symbian as well, advertising everything the E7 could do, but because it had no name, the testing guy assumed it was the N9, which is true, Nokia just released it as an E7.

So whatever the 'N9' looks like in those videos, is actually the E7. If Nokia chooses to release an official N9, it wont look like the above image or videos because those videos of the 'N9' prototype are actually of the E7.

I'm surprised most people didn't work this out already.

completely bull$hit.

the leaked photos of the "N9" on engadget were photos from a hardware mockup. you know, a device to let the management decide about materials and size and so on.
management decided it looks too much as an E7 and shouldn't be released in the same timeframe as the E7. (at least this is what I was told by Nokia)
the leaked video of techbuffalo was, well, a leaked E7.

Care to clarify this?
Does it mean:
a) it doesn't have fmtx, and there is a different developer device that has fmtx
b) it doesn't have fmtx, but it (being the device you have seen and/or used) is a developer device so we don't know if the final product has fmtx
c) it doesn't have an fmtx, nor will it or any special version of it, ever have one?

As far as I know (and we haven't talked a lot about fmtx) the dev-device won't have fmtx but the consumer device will have it. But I'm not sure regarding this point. maybe I'll know more about this later today -> Nokia meeting

shady
2011-05-12, 13:59
hdmi type-d ????

rm42
2011-05-12, 14:14
It's this simple for me: If you're gonna ask me to give up my built-in stylus, you better be bringing me an extra core, extra RAM, and of course, a compass in a pear tree. I would even let you forego the FM and IR transmitters, but that's it! :)

Not here. Well, the IR transmitter is not critical. But, the FM transmitter is sweet. I don't think I want to do without. Unfortunately, I doubt there will ever be another device that allows one to have an FM transmitter and is open enough to be able to boost its frequency as the N900 does. That is why I now have a second N900 in storage for when my current one dies. ;)

larux
2011-05-12, 14:19
hdmi type-d ????

Type D
A Micro connector defined in the HDMI 1.4 specification[52][55] keeps the standard 19 pins of types A and C but shrinks the connector size to something resembling a micro-USB connector.[56] The type D connector is 2.8 mm Ũ 6.4 mm, whereas the type C connector is 2.42 mm Ũ 10.42 mm;[57] for comparison, a micro-USB connector is 2.94 mm Ũ 7.8 mm and USB Type A is 11.5 mm Ũ 4.5 mm. Source: Wikipedia

geohsia
2011-05-12, 14:28
@geoshia
WTF. WP7 for me? Are you kidding me or did you not understand my last paragraph. Only way to get support from where ever you want is to use Open Source. Also I do not want Phone OS.

And if you think you're going to get fully optimized code like Android or iOS you're deceiving yourself. I stand by Dual core as a minimum.

richwhite
2011-05-12, 14:33
And if you think you're going to get fully optimized code like Android or iOS you're deceiving yourself. I stand by Dual core as a minimum.

Why? Unlike Maemo 5, MeeGo isn't just Nokia, and if this device really will get updates from MeeGo as we're told, then it'll be much more long term than Maemo 5 turned out to be.

geohsia
2011-05-12, 14:47
Why? Unlike Maemo 5, MeeGo isn't just Nokia, and if this device really will get updates from MeeGo as we're told, then it'll be much more long term than Maemo 5 turned out to be.

Lots of IF's. I'm not looking for Quad-core Octo-GPU like poni-boy over there. I just want a dual-core competitive with what is currently on the market, with RAM to match.

And let's be frank. The N950 is supposed to be what, 90k+ in unit volume? What about the others? A few hundred thousand. Let's just say a few million just for grins. Are you seriously going to say that that's going to be on the same level software wise as iOS and Android which is in the hundreds of millions?

Look, I'm all for giving the MeeGo community the benefit of the doubt. Why can't the N950 be competitive hardware wise? If you give it some juice if the software isn't 100% that's no problem. When it is it'll be that much better. Underpowered hardware will only make it look worse at a time when it's trying to build momentum. I don't know why this is even being debated.

richwhite
2011-05-12, 14:58
Lots of IF's. I'm not looking for Quad-core Octo-GPU like poni-boy over there. I just want a dual-core competitive with what is currently on the market, with RAM to match.

And let's be frank. The N950 is supposed to be what, 90k+ in unit volume? What about the others? A few hundred thousand. Let's just say a few million just for grins. Are you seriously going to say that that's going to be on the same level software wise as iOS and Android which is in the hundreds of millions?

Look, I'm all for giving the MeeGo community the benefit of the doubt. Why can't the N950 be competitive hardware wise? If you give it some juice if the software isn't 100% that's no problem. When it is it'll be that much better. Underpowered hardware will only make it look worse at a time when it's trying to build momentum. I don't know why this is even being debated.

Simple: all that processing power will affect the battery. Your argument seems to be (and correct me if i'm wrong) give us crazy power to compensate for shoddy coding because Nokia will drop it after the 24 month legal period they need to support it - which is a fine assumption after Maemo 5. But MeeGo isdevelped by multiple sources and companies, not just Nokia, and the N9/50 will receive the future updates, which, one would assume, will iron out the bugs.

Now, i totally agree that it should have great hardware and high RAM etc, but I don't want MeeGo to be an Android situation where, to differentiate from everyone else, the hardware manufacturers can only compete by jacking in more and more specs, so the average ***** thinks 'oh look, a high number, that's better!' with no recourse on, for instance, the battery life. The N8 is a bad example but the C7 isn't, it has a modest processor and works smooth and quickly. Maemo 5 out of the box runs very snappy too. Point being it's not all about the processor, but optimisation, as we all know. I, and i think most others, would like it more if MeeGo were built well enough so it could advertise the fact (for teens to understand) that "hey guys, we build our OS so it runs as well as Gingerbread but on a lower processor, meaning you get more battery life" or whatever. One of the biggest gripes about Android is the appalling battery life, jacking it up with a 1.2GHz dual core processor won't help that in any way. As has been said already, fix it at the foundation rather than using this band-aid approach

SD69
2011-05-12, 15:03
It's this simple for me: If you're gonna ask me to give up my built-in stylus, you better be bringing me an extra core, extra RAM, and of course, a compass in a pear tree. I would even let you forego the FM and IR transmitters, but that's it! :)I'd still rather have a stylus. Lack of stylus implies the touch screen will be the less accurate capacitive type, the UI is going to be of the pure "finger friendly" sort, and the zoom +/- is going to be some multi-finger gesture.

richwhite
2011-05-12, 15:09
I'd still rather have a stylus. Lack of stylus implies the touch screen will be the less accurate capacitive type, the UI is going to be of the pure "finger friendly" sort, and the zoom +/- is going to be some multi-finger gesture.

I'd be surprised if this isn't a capacitive screen. Having played angry birds on capacitive, i'd rather resistive even if only for touch games, and things like mypaint. But it's about balancing it out and i'd rather have other things at this point.
As for finger friendly icons, agreed, although if there's a Theme Customizer for MeeGo then we can reduce them again

Lullen
2011-05-12, 15:36
And let's be frank. The N950 is supposed to be what, 90k+ in unit volume? What about the others? A few hundred thousand. Let's just say a few million just for grins. Are you seriously going to say that that's going to be on the same level software wise as iOS and Android which is in the hundreds of millions?

I am currently an android user and from my perspective maemo 5 was more complete and with less bugs then android. So yes I really think that :P

Might be wrong thread to ask but from what I've recall there was someone saying that harmattan will have a hw accelerated ui a year ago or something. Is this a fact by now?

richwhite
2011-05-12, 15:41
I am currently an android user and from my perspective maemo 5 was more complete and with less bugs then android. So yes I really think that :P

Why are you using Android then?

Lullen
2011-05-12, 15:47
Because I did not want to buy a new N900 when I lost my phone a year ago because harmattan was comming in the autumn and now I am still waiting. Once a maemo user it's hard to use anything else :)

richwhite
2011-05-12, 15:48
Because I did not want to buy a new N900 when I lost my phone a year ago because harmattan was comming in the autumn and now I am still waiting. Once a maemo user it's hard to use anything else :)

ah ok, i was just curious. When my N900 broke i bought a new one, as you said, hard to use anything else

daperl
2011-05-12, 15:51
and the zoom +/- is going to be some multi-finger gesture.

Not for the browser. PR 1.3 brought a big improvement for double-tap zooming. And as an iPod touch 2G owner, I can attest that double-tap zooming is near perfection in iOS Safari. Multi-finger gestures are unnecessary 99.9% of the time.

But don't get me wrong, the above is no excuse for not having a stylus. (Did I just use a quadruple negative?)

geohsia
2011-05-12, 16:01
Simple: all that processing power will affect the battery. Your argument seems to be (and correct me if i'm wrong) give us crazy power to compensate for shoddy coding because Nokia will drop it after the 24 month legal period they need to support it - which is a fine assumption after Maemo 5. But MeeGo isdevelped by multiple sources and companies, not just Nokia, and the N9/50 will receive the future updates, which, one would assume, will iron out the bugs.

Sounds great, except MeeGo community has no access to closed source content like OVI maps, browser and etc. Are you saying LG will support their version of MeeGo on the N950? Unlikely.

Let's stop pretending that commercial MeeGo is the same as community MeeGo, plus do know for a fact that ALL MeeGo binaries will be fully backward compatible onto Harmattan? I mean we sure have A LOT of assumptions here.

Maemo sounded great until Nokia changed their mind. Just because other people will join MeeGo doesn't mean that LG or whoever else is going to fix Nokia's code if / when they decide that it's not worth their time anymore just like Maemo.

Now, i totally agree that it should have great hardware and high RAM etc, but I don't want MeeGo to be an Android situation where, to differentiate from everyone else, the hardware manufacturers can only compete by jacking in more and more specs, so the average ***** thinks 'oh look, a high number, that's better!' with no recourse on, for instance, the battery life.


The difference between Android and MeeGo is that Android you have choices. I don't see too many choices for MeeGo, so what do yous start with? Weak and outdated or current and competitive? Doesn't have to be the absolute fastest on the market but it's got to be competitive.

If battery is a concern, buy an extra and leave your charger in your car / desk / home. What's the big deal? It's not like you live in the Amazon and generate power by water wheel.

The N8 is a bad example but the C7 isn't, it has a modest processor and works smooth and quickly. Maemo 5 out of the box runs very snappy too. Point being it's not all about the processor, but optimisation, as we all know. I, and i think most others, would like it more if MeeGo were built well enough so it could advertise the fact (for teens to understand) that "hey guys, we build our OS so it runs as well as Gingerbread but on a lower processor, meaning you get more battery life" or whatever. One of the biggest gripes about Android is the appalling battery life, jacking it up with a 1.2GHz dual core processor won't help that in any way. As has been said already, fix it at the foundation rather than using this band-aid approach

Look, we're just preparing for version 1.0. We're not talking 2.0 or 3.0 here folks. Here's a newsflash, 1.0 products have problems. BTW, as a corollary to your point, someone in software can also figure out how to optimize battery life and squeeze more out of each GHz.

richwhite
2011-05-12, 16:17
Sounds great, except MeeGo community has no access to closed source content like OVI maps, browser and etc. Are you saying LG will support their version of MeeGo on the N950? Unlikely.

Let's stop pretending that commercial MeeGo is the same as community MeeGo, plus do know for a fact that ALL MeeGo binaries will be fully backward compatible onto Harmattan? I mean we sure have A LOT of assumptions here.

Maemo sounded great until Nokia changed their mind. Just because other people will join MeeGo doesn't mean that LG or whoever else is going to fix Nokia's code if / when they decide that it's not worth their time anymore just like Maemo.



The difference between Android and MeeGo is that Android you have choices. I don't see too many choices for MeeGo, so what do yous start with? Weak and outdated or current and competitive? Doesn't have to be the absolute fastest on the market but it's got to be competitive.

If battery is a concern, buy an extra and leave your charger in your car / desk / home. What's the big deal? It's not like you live in the Amazon and generate power by water wheel.



Look, we're just preparing for version 1.0. We're not talking 2.0 or 3.0 here folks. Here's a newsflash, 1.0 products have problems. BTW, as a corollary to your point, someone in software can also figure out how to optimize battery life and squeeze more out of each GHz.

According to zehjotkah, we'll be able to upgrade to full MeeGo if we want to. It won't be a community effort because MeeGo will continue to be developed. Ovi Maps may be an exception, but so what? If we get a decent version of it with turn by turn navigation, not many people will mind sticking with that.
And if you are concerned about Nokia but not MeeGo, get a different hardware manufacturer's one

mikecomputing
2011-05-12, 16:18
It was on a released Nokia memo that support for Meego will be through June 2012. Then itīs lights off.

Can someone really confirm this is the case? Link please!?

tissot
2011-05-12, 16:26
History of RM-680.
http://nokiagadgets.com/?p=663

mikecomputing
2011-05-12, 16:28
I really hope the N950 will still run meego. I fear they put WP7 on it and recycled the old N9 design for meego...

If they run WP7 on that phone Elop will burn.

geohsia
2011-05-12, 16:29
According to zehjotkah, we'll be able to upgrade to full MeeGo if we want to. It won't be a community effort because MeeGo will continue to be developed. Ovi Maps may be an exception, but so what? If we get a decent version of it with turn by turn navigation, not many people will mind sticking with that.
And if you are concerned about Nokia but not MeeGo, get a different hardware manufacturer's one

All fine and dandy but no reason we need to settle for subpar hardware. As for other manufacturers, I've always preferred Nokia hardware / design. My N900 is getting old enough I don't want to wait until the other guys get their act together.

richwhite
2011-05-12, 16:32
All fine and dandy but no reason we need to settle for subpar hardware. As for other manufacturers, I've always preferred Nokia hardware / design. My N900 is getting old enough I don't want to wait until the other guys get their act together.

Make your mind up, are we discussing hardware or software? When the N900 came out other phones had faster processors, but unlike Android, Maemo is optified well. Yes it could have done with say 800MHz not 600, but it wasn't as slow as Android would be. I want a nice balance between performance and battery life, and if it's well coded there may not be a difference between 1GHz and 1.2Ghz or dual core etc. If there is a noticeable difference then yes, i'll want it. But i won't want it for the sake of a spec orgasm.

But none of this has anything to do with Ovi Maps

richwhite
2011-05-12, 16:33
Can someone really confirm this is the case? Link please!?

Apparently it's European law that they must support a device for 24 months, so no, June 2012 would be at most only 12 months

Jedibeeftrix
2011-05-12, 16:42
i want my dual-core and qHD screen because i am a gadget geek and don't invest in yesterdays antiques.

if that isn't a good enough reason, tough, i'm not very interested in buying anything lesser.

:)

mikecomputing
2011-05-12, 16:43
So even if Nokia drop support for this it'll still get updates as MeeGo develops?

yes in the same way as CSSU on Maemo5 and MeegoDE for N900.

Personally thats why I will buy this new handset.

I dont give a **** what Nokia will do with support as long as we have a community and I can tweek it.

If I want "support" I would go for some crappy Iphone or WP7.

N900 and Nxx is for the community who prefer "as open as possible" :-D

shady
2011-05-12, 16:48
i wasnt asking what hdmi type-d was but rather if they would include it in this model, and if zehjotkah would be so kind as to ask during his meeting? if he were to also wonder about the FMTx

ceroberts75
2011-05-12, 16:53
i wont get it unless it has a hw kb. :/

hope it does.

mikecomputing
2011-05-12, 16:55
Mark Guim (the Nokia Blog) says, that the new device will be given to devs first and won't be available for consumers until some time after. Their 'tipster' has said that Nokia won't announce it at the MeeGo Conference, but he - as we all - hope the tipster is wrong.

Personally - I probably wouldn't buy N9/N950 if it was using single core processor. Dual core A9 + SGX543, thank you.

well could be because it will already be announced BEFORE conference. My hope is 17 May.....

geohsia
2011-05-12, 17:02
Make your mind up, are we discussing hardware or software?

Dual core is a hardware feature.

When the N900 came out other phones had faster processors, but unlike Android, Maemo is optified well

Not sure how being optified compensates for a slower processor.

Yes it could have done with say 800MHz not 600, but it wasn't as slow as Android would be. I want a nice balance between performance and battery life,

Seriously. Do you remember life BEFORE Titan? It sucked Big-TIME.

and if it's well coded there may not be a difference between 1GHz and 1.2Ghz or dual core etc.

Again, all fine and dandy, how long will that take. With the N900 performance and battery life was one of the main drivers for Titan and other optimizations. Innovation born out of frustration. Why not start with good hardware and save ourself the frustration? I'll pay more for a device if that means less frustration for the first year or so.

If there is a noticeable difference then yes, i'll want it. But i won't want it for the sake of a spec orgasm.

You're saying there would be no difference between a single 1 Ghz process and a 1GHz dual core processor? Hmm.... I think there is.

But none of this has anything to do with Ovi Maps


Except everyone keeps saying that all optimization problems will be addressed by the MeeGo collective and OVI Maps, one of the worst offenders on the N900 can only be addressed by Nokia and not anyone else. So if there is any chance OVI Maps for N950 will be as resource intensive as on the N900 then dual core would again be beneficial.

mikecomputing
2011-05-12, 17:04
Need dual coar! Massiv multitasking FTW! Heavy distros, emulation, responsiveness under higher load etc! What fun is OC'ing a single 1GHz core? Titan knows what I'm saying.. ;) Oh and more RAM in the van for this man.

Personally I think more RAM is far more important then DualCore.

mikecomputing
2011-05-12, 17:10
And if you think you're going to get fully optimized code like Android or iOS you're deceiving yourself. I stand by Dual core as a minimum.

Are you saying Android/IOS has fully optimized coide for DualCores hahaha you have to be kidding...

larux
2011-05-12, 17:12
i wont get it unless it has a hw kb. :/

hope it does.

According to FCC raport it does. Don't worry. I think that people even at Nokia read these forums and know how important hw keyboard is for people ;)

mikecomputing
2011-05-12, 17:15
I am currently an android user and from my perspective maemo 5 was more complete and with less bugs then android. So yes I really think that :P

Might be wrong thread to ask but from what I've recall there was someone saying that harmattan will have a hw accelerated ui a year ago or something. Is this a fact by now?

Could be atleast halftrue the QtQuick team is working hard to optimize nextgen QtQuick and use OpenGL and replace QPainter with QSceneGraph if I remember correct.

zymo
2011-05-12, 17:17
you guys heard of the „rumor“ that the meego device which you can buy hasn’t got a KB. The Candybar one is for the public.

richwhite
2011-05-12, 17:17
Dual core is a hardware feature.



Not sure how being optified compensates for a slower processor.



Seriously. Do you remember life BEFORE Titan? It sucked Big-TIME.



Again, all fine and dandy, how long will that take. With the N900 performance and battery life was one of the main drivers for Titan and other optimizations. Innovation born out of frustration. Why not start with good hardware and save ourself the frustration? I'll pay more for a device if that means less frustration for the first year or so.



You're saying there would be no difference between a single 1 Ghz process and a 1GHz dual core processor? Hmm.... I think there is.




Except everyone keeps saying that all optimization problems will be addressed by the MeeGo collective and OVI Maps, one of the worst offenders on the N900 can only be addressed by Nokia and not anyone else. So if there is any chance OVI Maps for N950 will be as resource intensive as on the N900 then dual core would again be beneficial.

1) Yes, dual core is a hardware feature, you went on to talk about Ovi Maps and stuff.

2) because it's less resource hungry...

3) Yep, got a new N900 last month and was completely amazed at how fast it was. When you take up 70%+ of root space, it's gonna slow down.

I think you're missing my point on all this. I'm not suggesting Nokia give us subpar hardware, i want big upgrades from the N900.All i'm saying is i don't want the band-aid approach - if we have an OS that runs nice and fast and smooth with a lower processor, great. If they put a 1.2GHz processor in anyway, great. But don't have a bloated OS that needs a huge processor. That's all i mean. This is like the difference between Windows XP and Windows Vista.

geohsia
2011-05-12, 17:24
Are you saying Android/IOS has fully optimized coide for DualCores hahaha you have to be kidding...

No, but at least it will have support for years to come. Who knows what MeeGo will bring.

richwhite
2011-05-12, 17:29
No, but at least it will have support for years to come. Who knows what MeeGo will bring.

Do you even know what your last post was before you make a new one? You said Android and iOS are optimised for dual core, then said no but they have support for years. Android isn't optimised for much of anything, it runs like crap on single core, people are now ejaculating over the spec sheet of the SG2 and it isn't optified for dual core. It's just this endless circle of ********. I don't know about you, I want MeeGo to be different, i want it to stand above Android by being able to claim that it's not fragmented, that it works well, and it's optimised.

If something is chasing Android, it might as well pack up and go home

retsaw
2011-05-12, 17:35
Apparently it's European law that they must support a device for 24 months, so no, June 2012 would be at most only 12 monthsThat just means that they have to fix it if it breaks within 24 months, it doesn't mean they have to keep developing the OS for 24 months.

geohsia
2011-05-12, 17:35
I think you're missing my point on all this. I'm not suggesting Nokia give us subpar hardware, i want big upgrades from the N900.All i'm saying is i don't want the band-aid approach - if we have an OS that runs nice and fast and smooth with a lower processor, great. If they put a 1.2GHz processor in anyway, great. But don't have a bloated OS that needs a huge processor. That's all i mean. This is like the difference between Windows XP and Windows Vista.

Whether or not MeeGo is like XP or Vista remains to be seen, but it will be because of the engineers decide that's what they want to do and can do not because of the processor in the N950.

Historically software has been the long pole in the N900 and N8. Do you really think with Nokia's lack of support they're really going to get ahead of this one? I respect Nokia engineers for what they can do but let's be real. Harmattan won't be optimized. And if I had to wait for MeeGo proper to give me the fully optimized MeeGo experience, when will that be?

The Wizard of Huz
2011-05-12, 17:37
I was about to go with the HP Veer but I think I will hold out for this. This is what I've been waiting for. Hardware keyboard and bigger screen than the 3.5" the n900 has. Hope the N950 will have the camera of N8 or better.

richwhite
2011-05-12, 17:39
Whether or not MeeGo is like XP or Vista remains to be seen, but it will be because of the engineers decide that's what they want to do and can do not because of the processor in the N950.

Historically software has been the long pole in the N900 and N8. Do you really think with Nokia's lack of support they're really going to get ahead of this one? I respect Nokia engineers for what they can do but let's be real. Harmattan won't be optimized. And if I had to wait for MeeGo proper to give me the fully optimized MeeGo experience, when will that be?

Ok, seriously, buy the LG MeeGo if you're already sure you'll hate Nokia's

xerxes2
2011-05-12, 17:41
Yet another Harmattan device rumour thread. :D Ok I reiterate my whishes once again:

1ghz single-core Armv7, TI Omap will do fine.
4" OLED
Hardware keyboard

That's it. If the first device will not have a hardware keyboard I really think Nokia should make another one with, like N8 and E7.

Brock
2011-05-12, 17:41
i want it!

thats all what i have to say...

geohsia
2011-05-12, 17:48
Do you even know what your last post was before you make a new one? You said Android and iOS are optimised for dual core, then said no but they have support for years.

Apparently my point wasn't clear. My point was that we are more likely to get a fully optimized experience from Android than we are from MeeGo.

Android is far from perfect but they have choice, they can choose from single core to dual core. They also have an OS that has proven marketshare and a customer base (which means they will have a future). MeeGo is still waiting to get to the starting blocks.

Android isn't optimised for much of anything, it runs like crap on single core, people are now ejaculating over the spec sheet of the SG2 and it isn't optified for dual core. It's just this endless circle of ********.

Nice and mature. Well, given that MeeGo is still unreleased, from my point of you are doing your share of "fantasizing" about how good MeeGo is or will become, so right back at ya buddy.

I don't know about you, I want MeeGo to be different, i want it to stand above Android by being able to claim that it's not fragmented, that it works well, and it's optimised.

Great. It can be dual core and do all those things.

If something is chasing Android, it might as well pack up and go home

It hasn't left the house yet.

olighak
2011-05-12, 17:50
Can someone really confirm this is the case? Link please!?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/nokia_cuts_memo/

European 24 month warranty only applies to the device new, hardware wise as is.

So the 24 month warranty is for faulty hardware. Meego lights will be turned off June 2012.

geohsia
2011-05-12, 17:54
Ok, seriously, buy the LG MeeGo if you're already sure you'll hate Nokia's

I would but have never been impressed with LG phone designs. Who knows what they'll produce in terms of SW.

The sad reality is that the N950 will likely have single core, not because Nokia thinks it is the right blend of performance / power usage but because Nokia management has no faith in MeeGo so they will only spend the minimum required to get the platform up and running. Maybe the only chance the N950 has to succeed is through software.

Hopefully the camera is at least decent like the N8.

richwhite
2011-05-12, 17:59
Apparently my point wasn't clear. My point was that we are more likely to get a fully optimized experience from Android than we are from MeeGo.

Android is far from perfect but they have choice, they can choose from single core to dual core. They also have an OS that has proven marketshare and a customer base (which means they will have a future). MeeGo is still waiting to get to the starting blocks.



Nice and mature. Well, given that MeeGo is still unreleased, from my point of you are doing your share of "fantasizing" about how good MeeGo is or will become, so right back at ya buddy.



Great. It can be dual core and do all those things.



It hasn't left the house yet.

I'm not fantasising, talking about what would be best

geohsia
2011-05-12, 18:05
I'm not fantasising, talking about what would be best

So am I, so what's the big deal?

richwhite
2011-05-12, 18:13
So am I, so what's the big deal?

You're basing it on how Maemo is, I'm basing it on a starting from scratch project.

geohsia
2011-05-12, 18:17
You're basing it on how Maemo is, I'm basing it on a starting from scratch project.

I'm basing it on my experience with Nokia.

slender
2011-05-12, 18:24
Lot of memory, good display with low energy consumption, high capacity battery, good gpu with low energy consumption, good cpu with low energy consumption. That's my preference. Emphasis on low energy consumption and big part of that is optimized code.

Meaning that dual core would be nice but is it major/must-have to me? Nope. Nowdays when I read some smartphone conversations I feel like I'm in the middle of 3Dmark score nerd fest .

sjgadsby
2011-05-12, 18:28
According to zehjotkah, we'll be able to upgrade to full MeeGo if we want to. It won't be a community effort because MeeGo will continue to be developed. Ovi Maps may be an exception, but so what? If we get a decent version of it with turn by turn navigation, not many people will mind sticking with that.

This isn't new information zehjotkah is presenting. Nokia employees have been saying all along that (unlocked versions of) the Harmattan device will have a developer mode that allows for the flashing of the fully open version of MeeGo from MeeGo.com.

In doing so though, you'd be giving up the ability to install and use any applications that require DRM. Indications are that the Ovi Store will no longer be a viable source of software for you, and proprietary Nokia applications such as Ovi Maps will likely be off-limits also.

Plus, this trip is one way. Once you switch your Harmattan device into "developer mode" to install MeeGo.com Meego, there's no way of switching back into closed, proprietary software-loving, DRM mode.

richwhite
2011-05-12, 18:35
I'm basing it on my experience with Nokia.

Or in other words, your experience is Nokia doesn't satisfy your needs. So why get another Nokia device?

mikecomputing
2011-05-12, 19:02
Yet another Harmattan device rumour thread. :D Ok I reiterate my whishes once again:

1ghz single-core Armv7, TI Omap will do fine.
4" OLED
Hardware keyboard

That's it. If the first device will not have a hardware keyboard I really think Nokia should make another one with, like N8 and E7.

I want NFC support but if HW is from 2010 I guess it will not have :-(

tissot
2011-05-12, 19:26
Not directly related to RM-680 but i'm not going to open new thread just for this.
Some not before seen Nokia phone in a trailer for movie called Real Steal.
http://www.fonearena.com/blog/37323/unknown-futuristic-nokia-phone-featured-in-real-steel-trailer.html
http://nokiagadgets.com/?p=815

http://images.fonearena.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Real-Steel-Nokiars.jpg

Like mentioned on Nokiagadgets the top bar got some Maemo feel on it.

mikecomputing
2011-05-12, 19:29
This isn't new information zehjotkah is presenting. Nokia employees have been saying all along that (unlocked versions of) the Harmattan device will have a developer mode that allows for the flashing of the fully open version of MeeGo from MeeGo.com.

In doing so though, you'd be giving up the ability to install and use any applications that require DRM. Indications are that the Ovi Store will no longer be a viable source of software for you, and proprietary Nokia applications such as Ovi Maps will likely be off-limits also.

Plus, this trip is one way. Once you switch your Harmattan device into "developer mode" to install MeeGo.com Meego, there's no way of switching back into closed, proprietary software-loving, DRM mode.

Well are u saying thats BAD :-D

Personally I dont mind if DRM apps will not work.

Real Linux users doesnt want to use that kind of crap anyway.

But I guess many here is comming from a world full of garbage apps and closed ****. Hint: WINDOWS!

The Wizard of Huz
2011-05-12, 19:47
This isn't new information zehjotkah is presenting. Nokia employees have been saying all along that (unlocked versions of) the Harmattan device will have a developer mode that allows for the flashing of the fully open version of MeeGo from MeeGo.com.

In doing so though, you'd be giving up the ability to install and use any applications that require DRM. Indications are that the Ovi Store will no longer be a viable source of software for you, and proprietary Nokia applications such as Ovi Maps will likely be off-limits also.

Plus, this trip is one way. Once you switch your Harmattan device into "developer mode" to install MeeGo.com Meego, there's no way of switching back into closed, proprietary software-loving, DRM mode.

Well it sucks that it is not flashable to the Harmattan state. What if you just want to try out meego?

I am sure (hope) the community will find out a way to do it.

Since I bought the N900 and started reading this TMO I appreciated the open source community more and more. Now I always want a device with wich I can do whatever I want. Don't want to be a slave to the manufacturer. I pay for it and I want to decide what I am going to do with it.

sevla
2011-05-12, 19:51
Well are u saying thats BAD :-D

Personally I dont mind if DRM apps will not work.

Real Linux users doesnt want to use that kind of crap anyway.

But I guess many here is comming from a world full of garbage apps and closed ****. Hint: WINDOWS!

Professional development firms will be releasing their (paid) apps with drm. So yes, you could be missing out on quality apps sans drm.

TheLongshot
2011-05-12, 19:56
The sad reality is that the N950 will likely have single core, not because Nokia thinks it is the right blend of performance / power usage but because Nokia management has no faith in MeeGo so they will only spend the minimum required to get the platform up and running. Maybe the only chance the N950 has to succeed is through software.

Reality? To be honest, neither you or me really know what the goal of them releasing the "N950" (or whatever they decide to call it), so making such comments are premature.

mikecomputing
2011-05-12, 20:00
Professional development firms will be releasing their (paid) apps with drm. So yes, you could be missing out on quality apps sans drm.

Well so what? Same goes for Android and IOS if you root/jailbreak them?

You cant expect ANY company to release both and fully open device at the same time expect them to have closed apps on it. You have too choose.

"Open or closed" simple is that.

Thats how bussines works. Same goes for Android and IOS.

sjgadsby
2011-05-12, 20:48
Well are u saying thats BAD

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying that if the information presented thus far turns out to be true, then switching to "developer mode" on a Harmattan devices will be a more lasting choice than we've had with Maemo devices.

Well it sucks that it is not flashable to the Harmattan state. What if you just want to try out meego?

Buy two!

cfh11
2011-05-12, 20:59
Not directly related to RM-680 but i'm not going to open new thread just for this.
Some not before seen Nokia phone in a trailer for movie called Real Steal.

It looks like an N8 or E7 with Android photoshopped onto the screen to me.

tissot
2011-05-12, 21:12
It looks like an N8 or E7 with Android photoshopped onto the screen to me.

Top bar is way too fat.

Personally i think it's just a "movie phone" that wont be released for the consumers.

sts1976
2011-05-12, 21:34
N950 to launch next week....


http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/05/12/nokia-n9n950-rm-680-developer-device-will-launch-next-week/

jflatt
2011-05-12, 21:40
N950 to launch next week...That's quite a stretch of the imagination

vivmak
2011-05-12, 21:41
N950 to launch next week....


http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/05/12/nokia-n9n950-rm-680-developer-device-will-launch-next-week/

Article says that it will be a development model, damn! they have gotten a taste of free developers !!

BigBadGuber!
2011-05-12, 21:43
Beautiful. cant wait to buy two!!

pelago
2011-05-12, 21:43
Plus, this trip is one way. Once you switch your Harmattan device into "developer mode" to install MeeGo.com Meego, there's no way of switching back into closed, proprietary software-loving, DRM mode.
Woah, hang on. We knew that there would be a DRM-mode, and a non-DRM mode (for devices that haven't been locked by a carrier), but last I heard we would be able to switch between the two, maybe by reflashing. This is the first I've heard that the change is one-way only. Source?

shady
2011-05-12, 21:58
^^ probably a one way tunnel that UPS would be proud of ..

sjgadsby
2011-05-12, 22:38
Source?

It was a topic of hallway discussion at MeeGo Conference 2010. Several Nokia employees confirmed it. According to the Nokia employees, a device can never again be fully trusted once it leaves locked down, DRM protected mode, so "developer mode" was seen as a one way trip. I believe there was discussion of the news in a thread or two here.

If there's to be a developer Harmattan device followed by a consumer Harmattan device, I could imagine the second being the only one with a non-reversible developer mode switch. Or perhaps the developer device won't support DRM at all. It will be interesting to see what Nokia releases.

zehjotkah
2011-05-12, 22:58
okay, some good and bad news.
bad first:
I can't comment on any hardware details.

good:
the preinstalled version of Ovi Maps is exactly the same as the one found on Symbian devices.

edit: and to stop with some speculation:
who would be damaged if Elop really would want to make MeeGo look crappy?
It's only Nokia who would get a damaged brand image, because the end consumer won't distinct between MeeGo or Windows Phone (that doesn't mean that the UI is similar!), just because he doesn't care. he would just see a crappy Nokia phone - brand image damaged. so we can clearly say, that we won't see any crippled down crappy OS.

Rugoz
2011-05-12, 23:37
good: the preinstalled version of Ovi Maps is exactly the same as the one found on Symbian devices.


hopefully with a new fancy qml ui...

tissot
2011-05-12, 23:46
RM-680 has had long road (http://nokiagadgets.com/?p=663) and i'am at least very surprised it's still alive.
If true the whole RM-680 dev phone and the mass market "lankku" released later sounds a bit weird. Where is the RM-680 exactly needed? As the RM-680 is old as hell did they have 100 000 of them in storage and had to come up a away to sell them? :D

kojacker
2011-05-12, 23:48
edit: and to stop with some speculation:
who would be damaged if Elop really would want to make MeeGo look crappy?
It's only Nokia who would get a damaged brand image, because the end consumer won't distinct between MeeGo or Windows Phone (that doesn't mean that the UI is similar!), just because he doesn't care. he would just see a crappy Nokia phone - brand image damaged. so we can clearly say, that we won't see any crippled down crappy OS.
I think you're right, zehjotkah, but allow me to play Devil's advocate a little.. :p What if Elop wanted a really crappy MeeGo device to be released? One that would be poorly reviewed, sell badly - why would he want that? Well wouldn't that make his decision to drop MeeGo for Windows Phone 7 look like a great decision?! Strengthen his reputation with investors, and give him more power in the boardroom?

A poor MeeGo handset would enable him to say "I told you so" and move full steam to MicroSoft. The released MeeGo device could be put to one side as just fulfilling a contractual obligation to Intel as part of the MeeGo partnership, on a limited volume run to keep costs down and keep it away from consumers.

Just saying :p It won't be long before we know for sure ;)

In any case Im really looking forward to hearing more about the device, after Elopocalypse isn't it heartening to have some good news from Nokia regarding MeeGo for a change? :) Last rumours were that it was dropped, it was based on 2009 technology anyway, plus there were only 2 men and their dog working on the UX. However MeeGo was supposed to be at the power end of the products, so hopefully we'll be pleasantly surprised when the spec sheet is unveiled :cool:

And hopefully the devs on here will be eligible and able to get their grubby hands on one through a developer device program/similar mechanism, so we can all benefit when the commercial device is released :)

Rugoz
2011-05-13, 00:24
What if Elop wanted a really crappy MeeGo device to be released? One that would be poorly reviewed, sell badly - why would he want that? Well wouldn't that make his decision to drop MeeGo for Windows Phone 7 look like a great decision?! Strengthen his reputation with investors, and give him more power in the boardroom?


A great meego device puts him in a better bargaining position with MS.
There's a chance other manufacturers will use meego if the noka phones are a success. I think there's a lot at stake here for the future of meego.

geohsia
2011-05-13, 01:37
Or in other words, your experience is Nokia doesn't satisfy your needs. So why get another Nokia device?

Again, SW vs HW are two different things. Give the HW the right performance and that addresses a multitude of SW problems.

Reality? To be honest, neither you or me really know what the goal of them releasing the "N950" (or whatever they decide to call it), so making such comments are premature.

True, but it is just a guess on my side based on their current stated position. I hope MeeGo succeeds and Nokia changes their tune.

Frappacino
2011-05-13, 01:57
You dont care what Nokia will do ?

Hint for the clueless - who do you think PAYS for Maemo.Org and the repositories at the moment ? What do you think will happen to N900 "community support" if TMO forums and the code repositories went away ? The admins here have admitted of Nokia pulled the plug community support will be in BIG trouble as the code repos will not be easily replaceable.

The ecosystem for this new Nokia phone AFAIK does NOT exist yet. Who will pay for the infrastructure to support the community support ? Do you know that yet ? How do you know it can exist independently by itself ?

As with most "head in the clouds" idealists, the issue of who pays the $$$ and practical realities seem to have escaped your attention.

Duh.

yes in the same way as CSSU on Maemo5 and MeegoDE for N900.

Personally thats why I will buy this new handset.

I dont give a **** what Nokia will do with support as long as we have a community and I can tweek it.

If I want "support" I would go for some crappy Iphone or WP7.

N900 and Nxx is for the community who prefer "as open as possible" :-D

aironeous
2011-05-13, 01:59
I'm getting a headache listening to all of your developer type speak.

I have a LG G2X now and it's very fast and I am very happy with how it performs on this thing called android and I'm watching guys making new roms that are faster than stock and they are also modding the crap out of it making it faster and better.
LG is coming out with some meego phones next month so lets see what that is all about
This N950 better be dual core and a gpu and a nice big screen and have flash or I'm not buying.

zehjotkah
2011-05-13, 04:10
hopefully with a new fancy qml ui...

the application is based on qt, yes. it's exactly the same as the one found in symbian. they haven't done an extra version for maemo.

What if Elop wanted a really crappy MeeGo device to be released? One that would be poorly reviewed, sell badly - why would he want that? Well wouldn't that make his decision to drop MeeGo for Windows Phone 7 look like a great decision?! Strengthen his reputation with investors, and give him more power in the boardroom?

A poor MeeGo handset would enable him to say "I told you so" and move full steam to MicroSoft. The released MeeGo device could be put to one side as just fulfilling a contractual obligation to Intel as part of the MeeGo partnership, on a limited volume run to keep costs down and keep it away from consumers.

he would simply decide that Nokia won't release a MeeGo device. there are no contracts between Nokia and Intel. Nokia is not forced to release that device. They release it because they think it's a great device (and I think so, too).
A poorly reviewed device won't help Elop, because the reputation of whole Nokia would suffer. For the end-consumer there is no difference between a Symbian-, maemo-, MeeGo- or Windows Phone-Nokia. It's us who know a lot about that and who care about that. 99% of the customers don't care. They just see the brand. In this hypothetical case a crappy Nokia device. This is the reason why the late 2010-maemo-Nokia device wasn't released - because it wasn't ready - for the clueless end-consumer.
Nokia want to get away from the "poorly-designed-UI-brand-image".
Nokias Harmattan device will be amazing. Different.

LG is coming out with some meego phones next month so lets see what that is all about

Source?
LG is interested in MeeGo, yes. But currently they're developing an IVI system.

gleydsonpr
2011-05-13, 05:06
I was about to go with the HP Veer but I think I will hold out for this. This is what I've been waiting for. Hardware keyboard and bigger screen than the 3.5" the n900 has. Hope the N950 will have the camera of N8 or better.

In my case am tempted to get SGS2 with its dualcore 1GB Ram, 4.3 super amoled+...

Like most of us I wish at ( least ) :

- 1.2 GHz single core, maybe 1.4 like some new android, can't remember wich. Dual A9 would be wondeful, but I doubt knowing Nokia.

- 4'' amoled wvga or fwvga (better), qhd would be wonderful again, but doubt again...

- A good gpu the one 'PowerVR 540' , better 543 model, wonderful...

- 4 rows HW Kb.

- Option to overclock, then we could get 1.8, maybe 2.0 GHz.

- Ram expected 1 GB for smooth multitask, 768 would be nice, but ...knowing Nokia would be 512. An idea, could be 512 + 1 GB virtual, awesome I think.

- HDMI feature and USB on the Go.

-It must feel like a upgrade from my since September, 2010 N900.

Sorry for the long list, but I am as excited as most here for this N9 950 and wishing these specs get trough REALLIFE .

xenkof
2011-05-13, 05:37
According to this: http://mynokiablog.com/2011/05/11/rumours-meegoharmattan-nokia-n950-4g-smartphone-releasing-this-summer/

An advertising agency has been hired to do commercials for a Nokia N950 device with 4G and touchscreen (not a lot details but they were the only things stated), that launches this summer.

Mc_mice
2011-05-13, 06:55
Saw this baby in action yesterday.

It was amazing, wonderful and pretty much the thing that has been circulating the net for the last year or so.

Those Nokia engineers should really pay attension where they use these prototypes. :)

gleydsonpr
2011-05-13, 07:00
One more joke... N9 Promotional track

I got a feeling
That it's not going to be a good device
That's not gonna be a good device
Let's hope it, let's hope it, let's hope it
I got my money
To spend on it
Let's get it, let's get it, let's get it
Oh oh oh, it's not gonna be a good device.

It is only a joke, here am really hoping it is going to be a great device. So let's hope it, let's hope it, let's hope it...

Sorry, nothing to do at 4 AM, here, good night fellas, tomorrow I check the comments again, btw this thread is probably going to grow very fast until Tuesday, 17th.

gleydsonpr
2011-05-13, 07:18
Saw this baby in action yesterday.

It was amazing, wonderful and pretty much the thing that has been circulating the net for the last year or so.

Those Nokia engineers should really pay attension where they use these prototypes. :)

Can you tell us more details? Like how was the speed, maybe CPU, screen res, GPU, Cam res etc.

Mc_mice
2011-05-13, 07:35
Can you tell us more details? Like how was the speed, maybe CPU, screen res, GPU, Cam res etc.

The speed had improved from the earlier versions of the phone, canīt say this was because of the better firmware or the hardware changes ( which I could not verify).

The cam resolution was 12mpix and the screen resolution was 800x460. The latter is just quessing, but compared to my wonderful N900, it looked pretty much the same.

Sorry for not giving exact specs, as I was only viewing the usage, not actually using it.myself :)

Frappacino
2011-05-13, 07:36
did you see any apps on it ?

i.e. aside form sat nav, what else is available ?

Mc_mice
2011-05-13, 07:44
Nothing special, saw only the basic programs.

I have knowledge of few cool apps but it might be too early to even mention them :)

geohsia
2011-05-13, 07:48
Nothing special, saw only the basic programs.

I have knowledge of few cool apps but it might be too early to even mention them :)

Anything to suggest HW acceleration of video? 720p playback perhaps?

Mc_mice
2011-05-13, 07:59
I actually did see some video played, but the resolution was not shown.
But I might make an educated quess and say it manages 720p playback.
Donīt shoot me if it actually canīt . :)

The screen itself was wonderful and 4". The GUI had the same elements as the Nokia Anna , round(er) icons with candy flavored colors ( donīt like).

The application manager was horrible, hopefully they fix it. Swipe gestures where working kinda eratic, there was no clear logic ( at least to me) :p

gleydsonpr
2011-05-13, 08:07
Just a couple more questions, xenon led both??? 12MP looks great if not .@?!&(u8+* Edof, ridiculous 12MP Edof, 720p video recording & playback is the LEAST we are all waiting for. But as you haven't get the media details, it could be just a mp4 file at 2000 kbps rate like the loaded videos of N900 ( O trailer and N900 Official Video . OS? Meego, Harmattan or .@?!&(u8+* Symbian??? Thanks.

geohsia
2011-05-13, 08:19
Just a couple more questions, xenon led both??? 12MP looks great if not .@?!&(u8+* Edof, ridiculous 12MP Edof, 720p video recording & playback is the LEAST we are all waiting for. But as you haven't get the media details, it could be just a mp4 file at 2000 kbps rate like the loaded videos of N900 ( O trailer and N900 Official Video . OS? Meego, Harmattan or .@?!&(u8+* Symbian??? Thanks.

Do you know if it has AF. Was it the same camera module as is on the N8?

Mc_mice
2011-05-13, 08:23
There was dual-flash but was it led or xenon was not shown.

OS was not clear, donīt know what they call it. It was clearly not the same as the Meego I have seen on N900. But then again, Nokia will make there own look of the Meego, the one seen on N900 is the base version.

NvyUs
2011-05-13, 08:24
It is Maemo 6 Its Not MeeGo, no matter how nokia try and spin it

Pillum
2011-05-13, 08:27
but i will still try to install meego de to install on it

Mc_mice
2011-05-13, 08:28
One funny thing he said, that how can you make a linux-based operating system without a terminal.... :eek: This was kinda worring to me.
And no, it was not a symbian , thank god. So might be the harmattan/maemo 6/ what-ever-they-call-it. :p

NvyUs
2011-05-13, 08:51
I read Nokia was thinking about hiding terminal and it only being accessible via a KB shortcut, Not sure how this was going to work with a Keyboardless Device though or if they even went with the idea.

Mc_mice
2011-05-13, 08:53
Looks like they havenīt though of many other things as well, but letīs hope they manage to get a good mobile computer out to challenge N900.

maxximuscool
2011-05-13, 09:10
Let's be honest with yourself for once guys.
Since when did you ever see a Nokia device have better RAM and CPU power than competitors? Not a time that Nokia device have more RAM that I can think off.

Nokia N95-8G has 128MB while competitors has more than 256MB in the same year. N97 released in 2009 still only packed with 128MB while others has 368-768MB RAM. lol

Nokia hardware has always behind others after the N95.
Why did Nokia never made a sufficient enough RAM and Processor device? and yet it selling at higher price or equal to competitors.

I would scratched my head.
Some pixel density to share:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density

Jedibeeftrix
2011-05-13, 09:16
the screen resolution was 800x460. The latter is just quessing, but compared to my wonderful N900, it looked pretty much the same.


shame. :(

i was so hoping for qHD!

benny1967
2011-05-13, 09:18
I read Nokia was thinking about hiding terminal and it only being accessible via a KB shortcut, Not sure how this was going to work with a Keyboardless Device though or if they even went with the idea.

I remember this, too. OTOH, a "terminal" as we have on the N900 is just another application. I don't care much if they have it installed out of the box... Some say it confuses end users, so it'd be better to drop it. As long as you can easily install it from a repository, what's the difference?

NvyUs
2011-05-13, 09:21
You have a short Memory b/c N95 8GB was way ahead of the competition but its been all down hill ever since for Nokia. They even dropped GPU from S60 after it and its only just made a comeback with S^3 devices.
They had been trying to build devices on the cheap for highend market did a lot for profit margins did that :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Let's Hope the New Nokia as more vision and aims to be on par or better with comp specs in the future

geohsia
2011-05-13, 09:25
Let's be honest with yourself for once guys.
Since when did you ever see a Nokia device have better RAM and CPU power than competitors? Not a time that Nokia device have more RAM that I can think off.

Nokia N95-8G has 128MB while competitors has more than 256MB in the same year. N97 released in 2009 still only packed with 128MB while others has 368-768MB RAM. lol

Nokia hardware has always behind others after the N95.
Why did Nokia never made a sufficient enough RAM and Processor device? and yet it selling at higher price or equal to competitors.

I would scratched my head.
Some pixel density to share:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density

They may be a bit behind in cpu / memory but the N8 has one of the best cameras ever on a mobile.

Nokia has always been segment driven, that's why there are so many different version, business vs multimedia vs whatever....

I have no idea how they're positioning the N950 so I don't know what they will put into it.

tissot
2011-05-13, 09:37
There was dual-flash but was it led or xenon was not shown.

OS was not clear, donīt know what they call it. It was clearly not the same as the Meego I have seen on N900. But then again, Nokia will make there own look of the Meego, the one seen on N900 is the base version.

The most interesting question to me is, is there a HDMI out?
There have been some rumors going on that RM-680 would not have it.

geohsia
2011-05-13, 09:49
The most interesting question to me is, is there a HDMI out?
There have been some rumors going on that RM-680 would not have it.

Then there would be no point in having 720p playback and if that was the case then no need for a good GPU and etc. I hope it's not true.

Mc_mice
2011-05-13, 10:20
The earlier version had HDMI and the latch which hides the port is present. So the port was not shown, but I recon itīs there.

tswindell
2011-05-13, 10:37
There is certainly a Harmatten Terminal application, as it's being open sourced for N900 MeeGo Developer Edition in order to replace the current standard xterm we use, that doesn't work very well with the VKB. There is a possibility that the Terminal program isn't installed by default (though I find this unlikely) but it probably will be hidden away. I also here it's quite good. So lets see :)

tissot
2011-05-13, 10:42
There is a possibility that the Terminal program isn't installed by default (though I find this unlikely) but it probably will be hidden away. I also here it's quite good. So lets see :)

Exactly. This is what i have heard as well.
While things can change i remember some pretty old presentation by Nokia worker that said terminal being there.

Don't find this a problem at all. If it's not there in default i'm sure we can bother to take 5 secs to download it.

anapospastos
2011-05-13, 10:59
@Mc_mice

Did you notice anything else that is worth saying?

strongm
2011-05-13, 11:04
>ovi maps ... the application is based on qt

Does this mean that there might be a chance of us seeing a proper version of Ovi maps on N900/Maemo 5?

tswindell
2011-05-13, 11:05
It also goes to show, if you target N900 MeeGo DE, your apps will run fine under Harmatten because Harmaten uses the same UI toolkit (MeeGo Touch Framework) albeit deprecated in MeeGo 1.3. So the recommendation is to stick with QtQuick/QML. There are other APIs that are the same in Harmatten and MeeGo, like ofono. So hopefully my dialer application for MeeGo written in QML will work under Harmatten.

Naughty
2011-05-13, 11:10
@Mc_mice

Capacitive or resistive screen? I pray for resistive, can't use capacitive with my long nails. If it's capacitive i have to pass.... :'<

Jedibeeftrix
2011-05-13, 11:12
@Mc_mice

Capacitive or resistive screen? I pray for resistive, can't use capacitive with my long nails. If it's capacitive i have to pass.... :'<

i don't imagine any mass-production consumer oriented phones will come with resistive any more, from any manufacturer.

Faustino
2011-05-13, 11:25
It's easy to build up expectations but I feel people should be a little more realistic about what will most likely happen.

Nokia only tends to surprise people in a negative way.. bear this in mind.

The N900 was a great device and still is.. it was just poorly supported, 3 firmware updates in 2 years is bad by any standards. The device was capable of so much more.

So now we may have a new device imminent.. i'm obviously excited too, but all i'm really expecting is something that will look similar to the E7 and that will probably have very similar specs under the hood.. it would be foolish to think Nokia is going to release a beast..

Is this an improvement on the N900 though? Of course it is..

Is it worth lashing out another €500 for? I don't know yet...


I'm glad it won't be full MeeGo in any case.. I liked the feel of Maemo so when it comes out i'll try it out before deciding on commiting to a purchase.. then if i do, maybe in a year when there is a stable usable version of MeeGo to download i'll make the jump.. but i certainly won't be making any blind decisions like I did with the N900..

Last year I bought into the Nokia PR about how Maemo was the next generation platform for years to come.. and i think like every other N900 user, we were burnt by false promises

Now we all have some choices.. do we jumo brand, start using HTC, LG, Samsung.. whatever.. OR.. start using the Nokia WP7 which is sure to have great support..

OR..

Stick with something just a little different?

Mc_mice
2011-05-13, 11:37
The screen was capacitive.

Comparing it to the E7, it is much more mediasexy. The E7 was like a tank, you could club a dozen applefanatics with it and wouldnīt make a dent to itīs casing.

This one had a lighter feel to it. But it didnīt look cheap or anything. I liked it, only wish the would have made the screen without the elevation.

Hope that they fix lot of the problem I saw( the touchscreen not working fluently, the task manager been a total letdown)

Sorry that I couldnīt answer all the questions with exact detail, but as I said, I was only a looking over the shoulder of the usage of this thing.

Stonik
2011-05-13, 11:57
The N900 was a great device and still is.. it was just poorly supported, 3 firmware updates in 2 years is bad by any standards. The device was capable of so much more.

Not just the device, I really like Maemo 5 UX too. It's nowhere near perfect, but basic things like multitasking with dashboard and status bar are nicely done. Hopefully MeeGo-Harmattan makes things even better.

Mc_mice
2011-05-13, 12:09
One more thing.

I didnīt see any widgets or shortcuts on the homescreen.
Yep, homescreen, not homescreens.

Everything was started from the main menu, like iPhone. Well almost everything. The settings where accessed from the top of the screen Donīt know if this is the only way, but sure gonna miss the editable homescreen(s) if that is the case.

sevla
2011-05-13, 12:23
One more thing.

I didnīt see any widgets or shortcuts on the homescreen.
Yep, homescreen, not homescreens.

Everything was started from the main menu, like iPhone. Well almost everything. The settings where accessed from the top of the screen Donīt know if this is the only way, but sure gonna miss the editable homescreen(s) if that is the case.

did the interface look anything like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INVlmjJKXjk

Mc_mice
2011-05-13, 12:53
did the interface look anything like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INVlmjJKXjk

Nope, the N9 image that have been on the net for a long time
( this one http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQs6ntnvHt3Gp4eGXpuNaxTXD0SGV4R8 HSOt7yA2YjTk28p85q_Ig)
, and thats it. You just press the "button" on the middle of the screen and that opens the main menu.... like in iPhone.... :mad:

Might be that it was on itīs default settings, so might have gotten wrong impression from it. :p

kojacker
2011-05-13, 13:28
Nope, the N9 image that have been on the net for a long time
( this one http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQs6ntnvHt3Gp4eGXpuNaxTXD0SGV4R8 HSOt7yA2YjTk28p85q_Ig)
, and thats it. You just press the "button" on the middle of the screen and that opens the main menu.... like in iPhone.... :mad:

Might be that it was on itīs default settings, so might have gotten wrong impression from it. :p
Hmm.. is that a physical button?

Edit: Nope, thanks Zymo for the reply below :)

zymo
2011-05-13, 13:44
there is no physical button on the front. Look here is another Image showing the device in potrait-mode.

eMiL
2011-05-13, 13:58
i don't imagine any mass-production consumer oriented phones will come with resistive any more, from any manufacturer.

If you want resistive, go China:

http://www.techrockstar.com/2011/05/09/chinese-dell-streak-7-knockoff-packs-newer-android-2-3-os/

nman
2011-05-13, 14:17
Let's be honest with yourself for once guys.
Since when did you ever see a Nokia device have better RAM and CPU power than competitors? Not a time that Nokia device have more RAM that I can think off.

Nokia N95-8G has 128MB while competitors has more than 256MB in the same year. N97 released in 2009 still only packed with 128MB while others has 368-768MB RAM. lol

Nokia hardware has always behind others after the N95.
Why did Nokia never made a sufficient enough RAM and Processor device? and yet it selling at higher price or equal to competitors.

I would scratched my head.
Some pixel density to share:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density

On the flip side, what if any competitors have 32GB of storage, even now?

Faustino
2011-05-13, 14:33
Nokia don't go all out on specs because up until the last year or so, they've had the market.. they could release average products and people would lap it up.

Leopards don't suddenly change spots..

Anyone expecting the new N9 or N950 to be significantly more powerful than the E7 are going to be very disappointed.

Stonik
2011-05-13, 14:57
Anyone expecting the new N9 or N950 to be significantly more powerful than the E7 are going to be very disappointed.

N900 already has a faster CPU as Cortex A8 is 1.5X to 2X as fast as the ARM11 in S^3 devices. Broadcom's GPU is on par with PowerVR SGX535 which is a bit quicker than SGX530 (N900). Broadcom chip is really good only at media encoding / decoding, as processing 12mpix cmos sensor data in a fraction of a second requires plenty of number crunching.

So if N9/950 was using only single core 1GHz A8 core with SGX540 gpu, it would be quite a lot faster than E7. Of course I'd still rather see N9/950 using TI OMAP4 SoC. More horse power, more possibilities. :D

Bernard
2011-05-13, 15:26
Broadcom's GPU is on par with PowerVR SGX535 which is a bit quicker than SGX530 (N900).

I don't agree, the Broadcom GPU may be fast when it comes to actual rendering, but it is a LOT less capable than any PowerVR SGX core because of memory issues.

On Symbian^3 devices the broadcom chip only has 32 MB video memory, and because of the hardware accelerated GUI of Symbian^3 some 10 MB is permanently in use, leaving only 22MB for actual textures that can be used inside games.

A PowerVR SGX core has shared memory with the RAM, and is MUCH better suited to play games. The Broadcom was chosen as a cheap solution to make a relatively underpowered phone do video and image processing well. It was never chosen for its gaming/OpenGL capabilities, and that is the whole point of the PowerVR core. For video acceleration maemo uses a different DSP core on the Omap3, that is not PowerVR related.

I would prefer the PowerVR core in the N900 to the Broadcom chip used in Symbian^3 devices.

tissot
2011-05-13, 15:41
I personally don't care about games the least. I want most of all great 1080 video playback thru HDMI out and as smooth UI as you can get.

My expectation are at OMAP36xx and everything above that is a surprise to me, unfortunately because OMAP36xx isn't at least really cutting that HDMI part.

I'm getting Asus Transformer the day it's available here so i could potentially use that device to put out my media. Still hoping for a surprise from Nokia.

The Wizard of Huz
2011-05-13, 16:00
On the flip side, what if any competitors have 32GB of storage, even now?

None. Not with a combination of 32Gb + microsd card. I searched for it. The only thing that comes close is iPhone which comes without a sd card slot, no usb OTG and all the drawbacks of a closed system.

geohsia
2011-05-13, 16:12
On the flip side, what if any competitors have 32GB of storage, even now?

The only one that comes to mind immediately is the iPhone with 32GB of storage.

marxian
2011-05-13, 16:17
32GB of RAM.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

tissot
2011-05-13, 16:20
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

http://fsb.zedge.net/content/6/3/3/2/1-1350354-6332-t.jpg

You heard it first from here. Iphone is just that amazing.

:D

geohsia
2011-05-13, 16:21
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Hahaha. Getting late over here. 32GB of Storage.