View Full Version : Elop on Helsingin Sanomat: Nokia not returning to Meego, even if N9 is succesful
Hate to be bringer of bad news, but as the title says, Elop says in interview on todays "Helsingin Sanomat" that N9 will be the last Meego phone even if its succesfull.
Released only to be excuse for killing Meego.
Google translation (propably gibberish) (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtv3.fi%2Fuutiset%2Ftalous.shtm l%2F2011%2F06%2F1350419%2Fhs-n9-jaa-nokian-ainoaksi-meego-puhelimeksi)
Frappacino
2011-06-23, 05:48
can someone who can read in the native language confirm ?
if so, lol a mass market phone with now officially no support from the vendor - this means 0 commercial apps post release and no buy in from 3rd party devs.
and with no geek factor appeal - alot of the community support flies out the window
hey at least Elop has the decently to say up front there is no support lol thats an improvement up from the n900
Fellfrosch
2011-06-23, 05:49
I can't say why, but i'm not really surprised.
Ministeri
2011-06-23, 05:49
Yeah,
Remember that Elop chosed to jump into icy waters from the burning platform. Even when there is helicopter ready to save him.
can someone who can read in the native language confirm ?
I can confirm this. It's all over the Finnish webzines which all quote Helsingin Sanomat -interview. Though I don't find this Elop's direct declaration from the original Helsingin Sanomat -article. Maybe it's in the paper version. Gotta check.
I can confirm this. It's all over the Finnish webzines which all quote Helsingin Sanomat -interview. Though I don't find this Elop's direct declaration from the original Helsingin Sanomat -article. Maybe it's in the paper version. Gotta check.
On-line articles of HS are allways very truncated. I'll check the print version on my lunch break, but MTV3 is very reliable source. I'm basicly sure that they are quoting the print version reliably.
Frappacino
2011-06-23, 05:55
conspiracies abound lol
wonder if the n9 was forceably moved towards a mass market direction by Elop with him knowing he will make this annoucement
if the n9 was kept in its n950 form factor, then it will live on as a geek device with community support
in this mass market form factor, geeks are not interested and its much less likely it will get critical mass community support.
Ministeri
2011-06-23, 05:56
I believe that Elop gave this statement now, because he saw that N9 is gathering huge amounts of support behind it.
He was a Microsoft Man and he still is. He saw that Meego would threaten the Windows Phone. Meego being a marginal platform and still probably would sold more. Even without proper ecosystem.
Nokia's Board of Directors should use its powers to turn back Elop's strategies proven to be a huge failure.
fcking elop sh*t bit8ch w*nker! he was probably worried about all the positive feedback N9 is getting from all over the internet. To kill all the enthusiasm, he said this but damn! how can Nokia let this guy fck up big time. I mean come on Meego_Harmattan is Nokia's own creation. WHY PUT IT DOWN THIS WAY? when millions of people are craving for it. FCK ELOP n MSFT with their shitty tiled blocky text riddled never ending panoramic scroll OS.
GRRRRRR!!!!!!! ELOP probably scaring away all the developers who might be interested in creating apps for N9 :(
Great.
I may not have liked the phone hardware (could be little better, have FMTX and stuff), but the software looks beautiful.
I can't see why any SANE person would drop that for WP7... I think it is too much to ask the trojan horse that is Elop. He is trying so hard to keep the shares low so Microsoft can buy Nokia.
mobiledivide
2011-06-23, 05:57
Anyone not expecting this was/is fooling themselves. The talk from Nokians and the blog posts etc all pointed clearly to winding down of the project. I will buy the N9 personally just to fulfill the fifth step and as a thank you to maemo people who really helped me learn about the idea of FOSS. (proud owner of N800, N810 and N900)
choufleur47
2011-06-23, 05:58
he really is just a ****in ****** to kill a product that is financially profitable or they have a deal with MS to do ONLY wp7 phones in the future and nothing else which is very probable
I believe that Elop gave this statement now, because he saw that N9 is gathering huge amounts of support behind it.
He was a Microsoft Man and he still is. He saw that Meego would threaten the Windows Phone. Meego being a marginal platform and still probably would sold more. Even without proper ecosystem.
Nokia's Board of Directors should use its powers to turn back Elop's strategies proven to be failure.
exactly! that's what I concluded by the timing of F*lop's statement when N9 is garnering such massive praise from everywhere
theonelaw
2011-06-23, 06:04
with all due respect,
PLEASE change the title of this thread
N9 is the final (or only) NOKIA Meego phone ever
Hate to be bringer of bad news, but as the title says, Elop says in interview on todays "Helsingin Sanomat" that N9 will be the last Meego phone even if its succesfull.
Released only to be excuse for killing Meego.
the linked article does not have Elop saying that N9 was the last /only meego phone. gthat phrase is an addendum from the journalist himself and i think he is just using the general "rumor" going around in all the online blogs / forums / news as his source.
unless the print version has a direct quote from elop this is not any more reliable than hearing it in a random blog
Frappacino
2011-06-23, 06:06
agh - this is why i asked someone who reads the native language to confirm this.
can someone 100% confirm as a quote from elop's lips ? or is it a vague quote/insinuation ?
romanianusa
2011-06-23, 06:07
Releasing N9 and N950 is an example why Nokia management failed. They have no vision of the future and that's why they join Microsoft. Releasing these devices is like showing their last breath before they die and venture into NEW Windows 8 phones. That's why they called the devices DEAD before they even announce. SO why would you buy a dead unsupported phones?? A waste of investment imo.
FYI: in business, you can assume that anything that has not been inked in contract are still in constant negotiation.
It seems to me that Elop is as selfish as any professionals would be; he may have used MS as a stepping stone otw to where he is right now (top guy of the biggest mobile phone producer out there), but I doubt that his allegiance to MS is as blind as a fanboy's.
N9 and MeeGo, could be his bargaining chip against MS. If N9+MeeGo is successful, he will use it to gain more favorable terms in his dealings against MS (Since Nokia is gasping for breath/cash right now); and may use MeeGo on its own when Nokia is able to stand on its own again.
Well the more successful N9 become the more pressure will be on Elop to convince shareholders his strategy. Of course Elop can always delay the releasing of N9 to the market till a Windows Phone come out to fade out N9 existent.
Ministeri
2011-06-23, 06:16
After reading the original Helsingin Sanomat -newspaper article, I can confirm that it says Nokia dumping the Meego. But without a direct quote. It says something like this: "Regarding Elop, Nokia will not continue with Meego even if it would prove to be a success"
I don't get why he is still not fired
It seems to me that Elop is as selfish as any professionals would be; he may have used MS as a stepping stone otw to where he is right now (top guy of the biggest mobile phone producer out there), but I doubt that his allegiance to MS is as blind as a fanboy's.
I wouldn't be so sure. From my experience working in and with US-based IT companies, they are pretty good at brainwashing people to be loyal to the brand forever. I have seen it time and time again.
After reading the original Helsingin Sanomat -newspaper article, I can confirm that it says Nokia dumping the Meego. But without a direct quote. It says something like this: "Regarding Elop, Nokia will not continue with Meego even if it would prove to be a success"
I read it too. I would translate "According to Elop, Nokia will not continue with Meego even if it proves to be a success."
The title is "Elop sulkee pois Meegon paluun", "Elop rules out the return of Meego"
Frappacino
2011-06-23, 06:24
Thats not ambigious at all - the quote is attributed to Meego... and I assume this newspaper is not one that will make up **** is it ?
Good enough for me.
Ministeri
2011-06-23, 06:26
Thats not ambigious at all - the quote is attributed to Meego... and I assume this newspaper is not one that will make up **** is it ?
Good enough for me.
It's the main newspaper in Finland. Largest of it's kind.
mikecomputing
2011-06-23, 06:26
Releasing N9 and N950 is an example why Nokia management failed. They have no vision of the future and that's why they join Microsoft. Releasing these devices is like showing their last breath before they die and venture into NEW Windows 8 phones. That's why they called the devices DEAD before they even announce. SO why would you buy a dead unsupported phones?? A waste of investment imo.
Oh shut up with your american ******** perspective.
Elop is the one to blame!
Creamy Goodness
2011-06-23, 06:26
Good thing Nokia isn't the owner of MeeGo then, or I might have to actually worry. Intel will bring us MeeGo phones... if not, we are doomed to use crappy chinese knockoffs. At least those would be cheap.
After reading the original Helsingin Sanomat -newspaper article, I can confirm that it says Nokia dumping the Meego. But without a direct quote. It says something like this: "Regarding Elop, Nokia will not continue with Meego even if it would prove to be a success"
Sometimes I do feel like Elop is doing his best to kill Nokia. He wants instant success so he decided on Windows Phone instead of Android. In house they have a great product that can be a success and rule their own f* ecosystem but no let's dump it even before it get to consumers and start from the beginning. He said many great features found in N9 will be available on WP, does he mean the lack of HDMI or the swipe UI that got praised all over the web? Seriously, what the hell ??
PS. I need some coffee
That's another reason not to buy :(
1SnapMusic!
2011-06-23, 06:34
Elop is a Microsoft guy through and through. Therefore, I'm not too surprised he'd take this stance.
However, if the N9/950 do prove to be a hit, I suspect the Board may push him in another direction and force him to reconsider.
From what I've seen on the Tech websites, the N9 is generating many positive reactions. And, I'm sure Nokia's Board will take notice of this and if Elop doesn't comply with their wishes he will be forced out.
Nokia have the makings of a beautiful 'eco system' with MeeGo, if they choose to drive it forward.
Metsämies
2011-06-23, 06:35
It's the main newspaper in Finland. Largest of it's kind.
It's a trash paper like The Sun. More accurate news comes from newspapers like Uusi Suomi or Kaleva.
Eflop is a terrible disaster for Nokia, I think he should go after WP flops.
I wouldn't be so sure. From my experience working in and with US-based IT companies, they are pretty good at brainwashing people to be loyal to the brand forever. I have seen it time and time again.
Unfortunately we won't know the answer for quite sometime, and only if NOK+MS strategy fails :)
I realize (after rereading my post) that my post may have sounded like Elop is a closet MeeGo fanboy; but I think he's just playing a good chess game (for himself) so far.
Frappacino
2011-06-23, 06:37
LOL this is so bloody confusing
look - is this quote firm or not ? i.e. is it being picked up by all newspapers and treated as truth ? has elop/nokia issued other statements confirming ?
It's a trash paper like The Sun. More accurate news comes from newspapers like Uusi Suomi or Kaleva.
Eflop is a terrible disaster for Nokia, I think he should go after WP flops.
That does not make sense, if the N9 is a big success it will not be the last one, even if they are already using those expensive robots to make phones for WP7. Don't forget Elop does not own Nokia.
The N9 can only really be a success if another device using Meego is at least announced. If Intel can secure any other maker at all....then the N9 is not a dead end, then only Nokla is a dead end.
Everyone making money out of branding smart phones is a platform (e.g apple) or an actual manufacturer with their own factories (e.g. HTC). Nokia, as neither cannot make money without an ecosystem/platform, as their simply isnt a third profit to be made.
Ministeri
2011-06-23, 06:39
And, I'm sure Nokia's Board will take notice of this and if Elop doesn't comply with their wishes he will be forced out.
I'm afraid that it's not enough as Elop is intentionally sabotaging the N9 sales with his statements.
This means that Nokia won't use money in marketing and probably will provide only limited amounts of this phone. Then it will probably sell every piece they made and still be declared as a failure. That's what happened with N900.
But I'm glad that at least Finnish carriers (Elisa/Saunalahti, Sonera, DNA) are already advertising N9. Elop won't probably like it though.
EDIT:
LOL this is so bloody confusing
look - is this quote firm or not ? i.e. is it being picked up by all newspapers and treated as truth ? has elop/nokia issued other statements confirming ?
I disagree (though HS is biased in some ways). Article is made on the basis of interview with Mr. Microsoft (Elop).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helsingin_Sanomat
BatPenguin
2011-06-23, 06:40
Yeah, I can confirm that that's what the article says too, very clear. But why is this a surprise to anybody? Most of the people that make Meego have been laid off already or will be at the end of the year, they've stated this is the only Meego product now for a long time. Even if they wanted to make another Meego phone, at this moment, they'd have to hire back people they've already fired. A lot of important people (management and coders) have also left on their own, so yeah, Meego's gone. This was clear in February already. It's actually impressive that they managed to get this out at all with the chaos since February, in my opinion, good job, Meego team!
Too bad, I think the N9 looks like way more interesting phone than the N900 (please note that I said "phone", spare me the mobile computer rants...). Looking at the videos of this thing, a strategy based on Meego would've looked pretty good to me, I don't understand how anybody can get excited about MS's silly blocks UI. Oh well. And by the way: any dreams that this phone will be some major huge hit everywhere are just silly: it doesn't even look like they're releasing this in the UK and USA...
whaaaat? I understand that MeeGo now does not have the ecosystem necessary for large scale market share, and WP can provide that for several years until MeeGo is ready. thats is why I gave Elop the benefit of the doubt since Feb.
if it his real intention what the article says, he is a certified trojan horse now.:mad:
Elop is a Microsoft guy through and through. Therefore, I'm not too surprised he'd take this stance.
However, if the N9/950 do prove to be a hit, I suspect the Board may push him in another direction and force him to reconsider.
From what I've seen on the Tech websites, the N9 is generating many positive reactions. And, I'm sure Nokia's Board will take notice of this and if Elop doesn't comply with their wishes he will be forced out.
Nokia have the makings of a beautiful 'eco system' with MeeGo, if they choose to drive it forward.
well Elop made sure that it won't by announcing the death of Meego from Nokia part, like he did with Symbian even though the support will last till 2016 and they still have handsets in labs to be released running Symbian.
It's a trash paper like The Sun. More accurate news comes from newspapers like Uusi Suomi or Kaleva.
This is off-topic, but that's just insane. Comparing quality newpaper to to a trash tabloid. Helsingin Sanomat is a daily newspaper of the highest quality.
Metsämies
2011-06-23, 06:43
LOL this is so bloody confusing
look - is this quote firm or not ? i.e. is it being picked up by all newspapers and treated as truth ? has elop/nokia issued other statements confirming ?
It is not said in http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/Stephen+Elop+on+vuorenvarma+Windows-puhelimien+menestyksest%C3%A4/1135267134292
I don't read the paper version. But Eflop tries to destroy Meego and make WP7 success. I hope that he will be fired as soon as possible.
Heh, there's a related article titled "N9 phone not expected to be a hit product" where an analyst says
- Jos tästä N9-puhelimesta tulisi menestys, Nokian pitäisi harkita uudelleen toimitusjohtaja- ja strategiavalintaansa ja ottaa ehkä puhelu Anssi Vanjoen suuntaan, että tulisiko hän takaisin, naurahtaa Rautanen.
Translation:
If this N9 phone becomes a success, Nokia should reconsider their ceo and strategy choices, and perhaps make a phonecall to Anssi Vanjoki, if he might come back, says Rantanan [some analyst] jokingly.
Good thing Nokia isn't the owner of MeeGo then, or I might have to actually worry. Intel will bring us MeeGo phones... if not, we are doomed to use crappy chinese knockoffs. At least those would be cheap.
Unfortunately, Harmattan is owned by MeeGo so other MeeGo phones may not be as nice as the N9's GUI... Maybe they can take the Cordia (http://codex.xiaoka.com/wiki/cordia:start) project and use that instead! I'll be happy... :)
1SnapMusic!
2011-06-23, 06:47
That does not make sense, if the N9 is a big success it will not be the last one, even if they are already using those expensive robots to make phones for WP7. Don't forget Elop does not own Nokia.
That's exactly right! Elop doesn't own Nokia and he has a Board of Directors to report to.
As someone else just said, it does appear that Elop maybe trying to sabotage the Nokia-MeeGo effort and bolster the MS-Nokia alliance. It wouldn't surprise me if he was, as these 'corporate' types can and do play dirty to promote their agendas.
Also, considering the amount of money that's involved in the Nokia-MS deal, and I'm sure that Elop was one of the chief negotiators, he's got to make himself look as if he can deliver. What better way to do that then effectively kill Nokia-MeeGo?
Heh, there's a related article titled "N9 phone not expected to be a hit product" where an analyst says
Translation:
If this N9 phone becomes a success, Nokia should reconsider their ceo and strategy choices, and perhaps make a phonecall to Anssi Vanjoki, if he might come back, says Rantanan [some analyst] jokingly.
Sweet dreams are made of these.
Heh, there's a related article titled "N9 phone not expected to be a hit product" where an analyst says
Translation:
If this N9 phone becomes a success, Nokia should reconsider their ceo and strategy choices, and perhaps make a phonecall to Anssi Vanjoki, if he might come back, says Rantanan [some analyst] jokingly.
I always said that Vanjoki should have been CEO, and some US guy (maybe even Elop) should have been his right hand, go-to man to get stuff done.
I always said that Vanjoki should have been CEO, and some US guy (maybe even Elop) should have been his right hand, go-to man to get stuff done.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/26/nokia-chairman-wanted-vanjoki-for-ceo-american-investors-forced/
ste-phan
2011-06-23, 06:59
SO why would you buy a dead unsupported phones?? A waste of investment imo.
I would buy it because it does what I need on that very moment.
Keep using it 2 years or longer till it falls apart. It is not a waste of investment.
I need a full browser multitasking , adblock, noscript, and nospy.
Waste of consumer investment and resources is happening due to people buying stuff they don't need then rely on ecoshops full of apps to download enhanced entertainment value for their untill they are relieved out of their boredom with a next quarterly iteration of their "favourite platform" .
Elop seems incompetent to lead Nokia to a well deserved victory. If any , it will be a bought one. I fear it will be rather a bought downfall though.
But let's see. Maybe he is a visionary and testing a new strategy
Soon after N8 release Elop has announced the dead of Symbian and the putting on hold of Meego as primary platform.
Now we have 10 more Symbians coming and support till 2016.
What is next , 5 x Harmattan from here till 2013 with support till 2017?
N9 and MeeGo, could be his bargaining chip against MS. If N9+MeeGo is successful, he will use it to gain more favorable terms in his dealings against MS (Since Nokia is gasping for breath/cash right now); and may use MeeGo on its own when Nokia is able to stand on its own again.
I can't really compute that. Doesn't his bargaining position become helluva lot weaker, if he rules out Meego in an interview even before it gets released?
He should do just the opposite, if he wanted to have advantage with Microsoft negotiations. Hint that Meego isn't dead and that Nokia could very well release more models.
Frappacino
2011-06-23, 07:02
I would buy it because it does what I need on that very moment.
Keep using it 2 years or longer till it falls apart. It is not a waste of investment.
I need a full browser multitasking , adblock, noscript, and nospy.
This is the best reason to buy this phone - it does what you need on release.
That being said - you will need to try it first to check that the are those plugins availab.e
Ministeri
2011-06-23, 07:10
Elop truly is completely incompetent to run a company like Nokia.
His views are too one-sided and he still seems to take orders from Microsoft.
In this situation a good CEO would praise the device like N9 and re-think his strategy (which crashed Nokia's stock value) after all this positive feedback and response from the customers. But no, let's bash this device and declare it's death!
Nokia Board of Directors, do something before it's too late!
My biggest wish is to read headlines like "Elop sacked as Nokia CEO - now sweeps floors at the warehouse" in the near future. It could be possible if the Board is not full of fools. Well, maybe not the last part of the headline.
There's also another story circulating Finnish news sites this morning: a Nokia engineer Felipe Contreras writes in his blog post that Elop is using false arguments to justify why there are so few Meego-phones coming out. (I tried the search here but couldn't find if this had been posted already.) It seems that Elop just doesn't care about any other OS's than WP inside Nokia.
http://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/my-disagreement-with-elop-on-meego/
Previously it's been rumored that Microsoft is paying Nokia a considerable amount of money for the WP-deal. It's likely that Elop and the board are getting a huge bonus too. For Microsoft, MeeGo is just another competitor staying in their way and they'll do whatever it takes to get rid of them. Bribe the right people, and that's it - MeeGo turns into NoGo.
No wonder why Rich Green left. Dirty business.
Edit: Nokia shares have started falling again.
Metsämies
2011-06-23, 07:43
This is off-topic, but that's just insane. Comparing quality newpaper to to a trash tabloid. Helsingin Sanomat is a daily newspaper of the highest quality.
That's not true. It's a local paper for people inside Kehä III (in Helsinki). People outside don't like it and it's left wing/green opinions.
There's site to unsubscribe HS: http://eroaerkosta.tk/
mikecomputing
2011-06-23, 07:52
That's another reason not to buy :(
Why not!? Who cares what that idiot says. We already knows this since long so people should stop cry.
I buy this device cause I know the Linux engineers inside Nokia are great people. I also know this is the most open platform and real Linux.
Personally I dont give a **** if its no supported by Nokia in a year.
We have Meego N900CE and we will soon have N9CE too :D
Btw. this statement from MrFlop also prove N9 is still will be "geekphone"...
ericsson
2011-06-23, 07:55
I doubt this. Elop would not officially say such a thing even if he meant it. On the other hand, WP is such a huge move and investment by Nokia, so he probably has to remove any doubt internally that WP is set in stone, even though he does it extremely unproffessionaly.
Symbian is also "dead", but 10 new devices are coming in the next 12 months.
Until I hear something officially from Nokia, this is all bull.
shrijith1
2011-06-23, 07:58
We are so lucky that Elop was not the CEO during N8xx/N900 time...else this forum would not have been there...
aikon800
2011-06-23, 07:59
well the bigger question is if Meego is gone will there still be maemo
.....rite after Harmattan.
mikecomputing
2011-06-23, 07:59
I doubt this. Elop would not officially say such a thing even if he meant it. On the other hand, WP is such a huge move and investment by Nokia, so he probably has to remove any doubt internally that WP is set in stone, even though he does it extremely unproffessionaly.
Symbian is also "dead", but 10 new devices are coming in the next 12 months.
Until I hear something officially from Nokia, this is all bull.
Btw... WP7 will not be announced in northeuropean countrys this year :D Instead we have N9 :D
mikecomputing
2011-06-23, 08:03
well the bigger question is if Meego is gone will there still be maemo
.....rite after Harmattan.
If you mean the SwipeUI no, not if there isnt an opensource project implementing it.
But the rest of the stuff can/will be backported to Meego IF we want too. (libmeegotouch/qtcomponents/tracker etc...
Board of directors would need to be ******ed to let Elop destroy meego IF its successful.
What would he say? "Take a look, we sold huge amount of n9s, demand is still high, its Nokia's masterpiece, something original that people like but i think we should still go with WP and become company like every other"
they should anserw "Elop, we agreed that you are ******ED"
aikon800
2011-06-23, 08:33
If you mean the SwipeUI no, not if there isnt an opensource project implementing it.
But the rest of the stuff can/will be backported to Meego IF we want too. (libmeegotouch/qtcomponents/tracker etc...
SwipeUI is just a implementation to the OS,
What I mean was will there be a standalone release of Maemo from nokia after they released maemo 6 (Harmattan), meaning Maemo 7
So, basically the case could be the following. (my speculation partly copied from elsewhere)
Nokia is committed to make one Meego release this year (some agreement with Intel etc.). It totally makes no sense to release this kind of phone if any continuation for the product line is not coming. They will definitely lose money with this product release.
MS agreement states that it will be their only smartphone platform, no Meego allowed. It dies even if it succeeds.
ericsson
2011-06-23, 08:37
Btw... WP7 will not be announced in northeuropean countrys this year :D Instead we have N9 :D
Good to hear :D Not that I have anything against WP, but let's face it, if there is a viable alternative like the N9, well...
I think this is a very classic proxy-fight takeover. The decisions were probably made last year, just before Elop got to the helm of Nokia.
That may be the reason why there is virtually no resistance within board to the Elop's strategy. It also explains why certain design leads left, and the disappearance of Rich Green.
Sorry guys, it looked the N9 (I am more of N950 type of person) could change things.
I really hope I am dead wrong about this.
BTW: Take a look at Nokia stocks just before and after the N9 was announced, than take a look at the situation this morning.
I think this is a very classic proxy-fight takeover. The decisions were probably made last year, just before Elop got to the helm of Nokia.
That may be the reason why there is virtually no resistance within board to the Elop's strategy. It also explains why certain design leads left, and the disappearance of Rich Green.
Sorry guys, it looked the N9 (I am more of N950 type of person) could change things.
I really hope I am dead wrong about this.
BTW: Take a look at Nokia stocks just before and after the N9 was announced, than take a look at the situation this morning.
I have similar feelings to be honest. Its not a first time it has happened and it wont be the last.
zlatokosi
2011-06-23, 08:57
Why the surprise? It was very obvious. Even the marketing strategy for N9 points in this direction.
The only reason the phone was released was to fulfill contractual obligations to Intel, period.
This is where most of the negative response from TMO members (at least from me) came from at N9 release. I was sure this would be Nokia's last NIT for some time to come, and the N9 in my books isn't even an NIT.
It was the last chance to get a Nxxx successor, and I didn't really care about Nokia support, I'm pretty used to not having that. My desperation on release was because I knew that dream had been shattered. I just hope they produced a huge amount of N950's which will be eventually available somehow, even though I know that is not gonna happen.
Instead of going out with a bang, Nokia has abandoned Maemo/MeeGo with yet another WTF moment?
Shame on you, Elop. And shame on you, Nokia. And to the Finns, well, that is what happens when you let the devil inside.
Why not just read the news in English: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11172/1155185-96-0.stm?cmpid=business.xml
The alleged "first and last" in HS was from Carolina Milanesi; and as you can see in the English news she said "Night and Day", rather than "first and last".
I wondered what's wrong with the rumor here. May be people would want Elop saying that, but he didn't.
Why not just read the news in English: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11172/1155185-96-0.stm?cmpid=business.xml
The alleged "first and last" in HS was from Carolina Milanesi; and as you can see in the English news she said "Night and Day", rather than "first and last".
I wondered what's wrong with the rumor here. May be people would want Elop saying that, but he didn't.
That is totally different article, from a different day, from a different newspaper, from a different continent and in different language.
Again, the topic of this thread is a article today in a newspaper called Helsingin Sanomat. It's no speculation. Only way that Stephen Elop didn't say it, is that the largest, most prestigous and trusted newspaper in Finland is flat out lying.
....i did read it, native finn and i didn't find anything about this?
...
Shame on you, Elop. And shame on you, Nokia. And to the Finns, well, that is what happens when you let the devil inside.
I'm fairly certain that overall Elop is executing board's earlier made decisions. But at the same time I assume that former CEO and now the chairman of the board Jorma Ollila wouldn't be this quick to say no to Meego. It's not Elop alone who can kill linux inside Nokia, but of course he's got a lot of power to drive it down.
The history will tell us what Elop was really like as a CEO. Whether he really disses anything else than Microsoft's products remains to be seen.
Personally I'm afraid that he came to Nokia to be prepped to succeed Ballmer as a CEO of Microsoft, and he lets nothing get in the way of Nokia becoming a Windows Phone-only house.
As a Finn and as a European I'm really sad that after Nokia moves to Windows Phone there are only three major players in the mobile OS industry: iOS, Android and WinPhone, and they are all American, and the companies behind them are not exactly the most consumer friendly ones.
....i did read it, native finnish and i didn't find anything about this?
Read it again then. It's on economy section.
EDIT: Otsikko on "Elop sulkee pois Meegon paluun". Elopin mukaan...jne. Aika selkeä juttu. Hesarin verkkoversiossa on lyhyeksi pätkitty versio. Puhun nyt siis printtiversiosta.
kyllerbuzcut
2011-06-23, 09:20
help me obi-wan intel, you're my only hope.
zlatokosi
2011-06-23, 09:24
I'm fairly certain that overall Elop is executing board's earlier made decisions. But at the same time I assume that former CEO and now the chairman of the board Jorma Ollila wouldn't be this quick to say no to Meego. It's not Elop alone who can kill linux inside Nokia, but of course he's got a lot of power to drive it down.
Yes, maybe the path had been set before. But I don't believe the decision had been final. As far as I can tell from news reports and blogs, even Elop had discussions with Android (although they were short :)). Elop also had back and forths with MeeGo devs about the feasability of future MeeGo device announcements, something I don't think he would have done had all the decisions been taken by the board.
Yes, maybe the path had been set before. But I don't believe the decision had been final. As far as I can tell from news reports and blogs, even Elop had discussions with Android (although they were short :)). Elop also had back and forths with MeeGo devs about the feasability of future MeeGo device announcements, something I don't think he would have done had all the decisions been taken by the board.
That depends if the remaining board members are still active players (persuaded by Nokia-M$ deal). In that case that leaves a small amount of hope if the sales are proven to be good for N9.
If they are inactive (subdued by Nokia-M$ deal), there is nothing anybody else can do it.
Read it again then. It's on economy section.
EDIT: Otsikko on "Elop sulkee pois Meegon paluun". Elopin mukaan...jne. Aika selkeä juttu. Hesarin verkkoversiossa on lyhyeksi pätkitty versio. Puhun nyt siis printtiversiosta.
I meant the MTV3 article, but yeah reading the paper HS just now and it's there.
"According to Elop there's mo return to MeeGo, even if N9 would be success"
.... fock i hate that guy.
I meant the MTV3 article, but yeah reading the paper HS just now and it's there.
"According to Elop there's mo return to MeeGo, even if N9 would be success"
.... fock i hate that guy.
I've rotated your image.
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc371/momcilo78/rotated.jpg
I've rotated your image.
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc371/momcilo78/rotated.jpg
Heh writing this from ipad 2 and it wanted to turn the pic upside down for some reason. :D
There is one N9 sitting on the table in front of him. :(
Heh writing this from ipad 2 and it wanted to turn the pic upside down for some reason. :D
I just thought you are being disruptive. :D
Does anybody recognizes the building and the background?
Is it in Espoo?
Can we confirm the shot was made yesterday (what was the weather)?
I gather he took a flight from the conference, paused for some time and gave interview.
I've rotated your image.
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc371/momcilo78/rotated.jpg
In that photo, Eflop looks terrified by the N9. It looks like a perfect image for the content of the article. Too perfect to be a true photograph.
:confused: ;) Photoshop?
Does anybody recognizes the building and the background?
Is it in Espoo?
Can we confirm the shot was made yesterday (what was the weather)?
I gather he took a flight from the conference, paused for some time and gave interview.
That's from Keilaniemi, Espoo. In the picture, you can see the Neste HQ building on the background on window. The picture text also says that he has just returned from Singapore on a Finnair flight.
Ministeri
2011-06-23, 09:47
As Sampsa Kurri from Muropaketti noted:
No eiköhän se nyt tarkoita sitä, että Nokian uusi ensisijainen älypuhelinstrategia ei tule palaamaan MeeGoon, vaan on Windows Phone. En kyllä tajua miten tosta on saatu väännettyä, että toista meegoluuria ei tule, fail.
I won't translate it since he has been seen personally writing here, but Elop's statement might mean that Nokia won't make MeeGo it's top priority OS again, but will keep on with Windows Phone -strategy.
Still Elop's timing is the worst possible and he treats the device wrong. Not a single positive comment, it's all about the Windows Phone 7, baby.
look at this elop stole N9 design for a Wp7, it as few small differences only, might be fake though
http://mynokiablog.com/2011/06/23/stephen-elop-introduces-nokia-windows-phone-looks-like-nokia-n9-or-possibly-is-just-that/
Here is a screenshot from the HS digipaper:
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad209/pasijh/th_Elop-Hesari.jpg (http://s936.photobucket.com/albums/ad209/pasijh/?action=view¤t=Elop-Hesari.jpg)
That's from Keilaniemi, Espoo. In the picture, you can see the Neste HQ building on the background on window. The picture text also says that he has just returned from Singapore on a Finnair flight.
That means, he was very interested in emphasizing the N9 is not the future, but WF7. I don't know about Singapore-Helsinki, but it takes between 12-13 hours between Singapore-Frankfurt + 2x jet lag.
Ministeri
2011-06-23, 09:56
That means, he was very interested in emphasizing the N9 is not the future, but WF7. I don't know about Singapore-Helsinki, but it takes between 12-13 hours between Singapore-Frankfurt + 2x jet lag.
Actually the article states:
"After returning early in the morning from Singapore, CEO Elop is praising the pace of change of Nokia."
So this has been made after the trip. Mr. Microsoft is a fast sabotager.
EDIT: Oh, this was already noted. My bad. :o
Actually the article states:
"After returning early in the morning from Singapore, CEO Elop is praising the pace of change of Nokia."
So this has been made after the trip. Mr. Microsoft is a fast sabotager.
Exactly what I mean. :mad:
That means, he was very interested in emphasizing the N9 is not the future, but WF7. I don't know about Singapore-Helsinki, but it takes between 12-13 hours between Singapore-Frankfurt + 2x jet lag.
Well, the first time he set Meego on fire wasn't clearly enough. There was still some life in the old penguin and possibility of people buying and/or doing 3rd party software for Meego.
So, I bet he went to that Neste Oil HQ shown on that picture just behind Nokia HQ and asked few barrels of biodiesel. Always good to be environmentally conscious when setting your platforms on fire.
Mandibela
2011-06-23, 10:02
That means, he was very interested in emphasizing the N9 is not the future, but WF7. ...
Yes, that's what I'm thinking too. I mean he still did not say that N9 will be the only one of it's kind.
I need to get a verifiable quote where he states, without any 'analyst' speculation, that N9 is the last linux phone from Nokia. Until that happens, I will keep my faith.
Also, I'm glad that the Windows Phones appear to satisfy the test audiences.
mohannad
2011-06-23, 10:02
Any news of Elop receiving death threats from loyal finns?
My biggest wish is to read headlines like "Elop sacked as Nokia CEO - now sweeps floors at the warehouse" in the near future.
I wouldn't trust him to sweep floors. He would first insist that existing mops, brooms and vacuum cleaners are either obsolete or have no "ecosystem" around them, then burn and trash them all to make the point, and claim he would clean the floors only with some allegedly vastly superior vacuum cleaner from Kirby that was announced to be produced two years later, cost like an aircraft, and "clean all those floors in a snap."
Yes, that's what I'm thinking too. I mean he still did not say that N9 will be the only one of it's kind.
I need to get a verifiable quote where he states, without any 'analyst' speculation, that N9 is the last linux phone from Nokia. Until that happens, I will keep my faith.
"Elopin mukaan Meegoon ei ole paluuta, vaikka N9 olisi myyntimenestys."
This is no analyst speculation. Any hope after that is just wishful thinking.
look at this elop stole N9 design for a Wp7, it as few small differences only, might be fake though
http://mynokiablog.com/2011/06/23/stephen-elop-introduces-nokia-windows-phone-looks-like-nokia-n9-or-possibly-is-just-that/
This was what i have been saying here for some time. Or to be specific Dsmobile from MR forums have been saying for couple of months that there will be carbon copy of N9 on WP side, design wise.
It's totally another thing if that pic really is real.
http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/2.jpg
droitwichgas
2011-06-23, 10:06
Didn't Tommy say in a recnt article "the burning platform" memo was to kill off any chance of Symbian OS surviving? Is this Elope's attmepts to now kill of Meego Nokia as well as he his worried the phones got a far better reception from the media that he anticipated?
Instead of giving meego the boot why don't the Board send Elope back to m$??? As I fear he's got this decision wrong back time!!
Instead of giving meego the boot why don't the Board send Elope back to m$??? As I fear he's got this decision wrong back time!!
Because it's the management style which doesn't care for the company, as long as bonuses can be grabbed by oneself in a very short term.
interesting read in nokia conversations...
everyone commenting seems to want an n9 with a keyboard and comparisons with the n900 abound.
Pity elop..
zlatokosi
2011-06-23, 10:13
This was what i have been saying here for some time. Or to be specific Dsmobile from MR forums have been saying for couple of months that there will be carbon copy of N9 on WP side, design wise.
It's totally another thing if that pic really is real.
Carbon copy with Haptikos ;) /unfoundedspeculation
That is totally different article, from a different day, from a different newspaper, from a different continent and in different language.
Again, the topic of this thread is a article today in a newspaper called Helsingin Sanomat. It's no speculation. Only way that Stephen Elop didn't say it, is that the largest, most prestigous and trusted newspaper in Finland is flat out lying.
It's not totally different article. If you compared them, you'd find that HS used a lot of the comments from REUTERS, if not the analysts' name, from the article I linked.
I'm reading the HS international version, and corresponding Singapore news which they sourced from, and I don't see the exact wording from Elop or Nokia that implies N9 is the first and last MeeGo Phone. Rather, one analyst from REUTERS did say that, and I'm not sure if the author in HS has made use of this.
So straightly speaking, HS just remits someone else's analysis. If this is pure speculation, it'd not be HS' fault. That's win-win.
Having said that, I'd have no problem if Elop really admitted it. ;)
Mandibela
2011-06-23, 10:13
This is no analyst speculation. Any hope after that is just wishful thinking.
Isn't faith always like that? :D
A video of (it's unlikely I'd be present) Elop, with the Nokia board of directors standing behind him, announcing to the public the total abandoment of linux would maybe create doubt.
You are right in that that there's no exact quote of him saying it.
"According to Elop there's no return to MeeGo...."
I'm clinging on to anything i still can. :D
Stephen Elop stills own quite a lot of Littlesoft share.
Stephne Elop Do not Know anything about mobile computer market, as he is proving every day.
Stephen Elop is killing Nokia, choking it on the behalf of littlesoft and US gov.
Stephen Elop is a lier. He saw the n9 and n950 one year before us and decided to terminate it because they were much better tha any WP7. Why you are not selling the n950? GET RID OF THE N8 or E7 CRAP. They are a shame for Nokia irself. You're not doing it? Because you are a damn FRAUD!
WHAT THE HELL NOKIA BOARD IS DOING? FIRE THIS FAT STUPID TROJAN HORSE AND REJOICE WITH MEEGO.
And about this stupid word, ecosystem, which means nothing at all, Mr. Elop DO YOU ****ING KNOWS WHAT QT IS?
DO YOU ****ING KNOWS WHAT ALIEN DALVIK IS?
No. You only know what the other fatso Bellamar tells you to. Mindless slave
help me obi-wan intel, you're my only hope.
ok leia.
go inside this dark cave, walk til the end of the tunnel, then undress yourself and wait for me there.
It's not totally different article. If you compared them, you'd find that HS used a lot of the comments from REUTERS, if not the analysts' name, from the article I linked.
I'm reading the HS international version, and corresponding Singapore news which they sourced from, and I don't see the exact wording from Elop or Nokia that implies N9 is the first and last MeeGo Phone. Rather, one analyst from REUTERS did say that, and I'm not sure if the author in HS has made use of this.
So straightly speaking, HS just remits someone else's analysis. If this is pure speculation, it'd not be HS' fault. That's win-win.
Having said that, I'd have no problem if Elop really admitted it. ;)
Yes it is a totally different article. That article on HS international edition is from yesterday. This is a Elop interview from today. This article doesn't even have translation at the HS international site yet.
Thats not ambigious at all - the quote is attributed to Meego... and I assume this newspaper is not one that will make up **** is it ?
Good enough for me.
MeeGo isn't talking.
Ministeri
2011-06-23, 10:28
Yes it is a totally different article. That article on HS international edition is from yesterday. This is a Elop interview from today. This article doesn't even have translation at the HS international site yet.
As I said in earlier message:
After thinking it through, what Elop meant might be that WP7 will continue as a Nokia's main platform, even if MeeGo succeeds better than expected.
"Nokia won't return to Meego (as a main platform)" != "N9 is the last Nokia Meego -device"
It seems that the Finnish media corrupted the article in Helsingin Sanomat. But I must admit that the article is quite unclear.
I think that the title should be changed until we know better.
OK, so he rules out MeeGo, but what about Harmattan?
So straightly speaking, HS just remits someone else's analysis.
There will be more meego phones. The force is strong with meego, I can feel it. Sith lord elop shall not prevail.
No seriously, I think there are smoking heads at nokia hq right now, how exactly to solve this dilemma. They cannot praise meego too much, because wp7 needs nokias support more than ever. At the same time people there are probably proud of what they see.
It seems that the Finnish media corrupted the article in Helsingin Sanomat. But I must admit that the article is quite unclear.
I think that the title should be changed until we know better.
Don't mean to flame you, but to me that is just wishful thinking.
It's pretty obvious what he meant and the timing of the interview makes it even more clear.
bequezox
2011-06-23, 10:36
Appearantly everyone at nokia does not agree with Elop..
http://felipec.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/my-disagreement-with-elop-on-meego/
come on guys we had to kill this **** man!
Here is a translation of the article quickle done with the help of Google translate:
Elop rules out the return of Meego
Nokia CEO promises to support those in danger of termination.
By Petri Sajari HS
MOBILE PHONE manufacturer Nokia’s CEO Stephen Elop promises the company to present soon a host of new inventions to improve the competitiveness of their mobile handsets.
According to Elop there have been major changes made in the company's internal working methods over the past four months, that will speed up the development of better phones and the practical implementation of the plans.
"I've talked a lot about how to increase people's sense of responsibility, empathy, listening to customers and each other and to avoid being arrogant," Elop said in an interview in Helsingin Sanomat on Wednesday.
AS AN EXAMPLE of new inventions he regards the N9-phone that was published on Tuesday, which, however, will go on sale in the autumn for more than a year late.
"It has a number of inventions regarding usability, design and materials, which we will utilize and develop further in future devices. I can not yet tell about them more, but they will soon be seen," Elop says.
Elop says that N9 is a device that is (more about) utilizing the Qt programming environment than the MeeGo operating system.
Qt programming environment allows applications to be programmed to operate on three of Nokia's operating system, but not on a Windows phone.
Elop says that there is no return to Meego, even if the N9 is sales success.
"I have been watching the discussions with the telecom operators and consumers participated in the test groups. Feedback has been very positive and I am sure that Windows will be a success," Elop said.
THE RECENT difficulties have made employees and investors doubt the company's ability to solve problems in time. Competitors' sales are growing, but the Nokia phones’ demand is decreasing.
This year, the share price has declined more than 40 percent, as investors are highly uncertain of the business development.
"I can well understand that investors want to see the results of a new strategy in its full glory. It will take some time, but when we are able to present the results of our strategy, I'm sure about the reduction of uncertainty."
Migration to software company Microsoft's Windows operating system is a frustration for many workers. Some fear that the company will become just a Microsoft OEM and subcontractor. Elop knocks out the idea.
"Nokia will continue product development in software, services and equipment design. We will build inventions to the Windows-based phones that will make us stand out from our competitors and will bring significant additional benefits for application developers."
According to Elop several software development projects have been established in recent months at Nokia. "Software product development workers are increasingly more motivated about our achievements. I am with dealing with them all the time. I keep getting e-mails, which describe the acceleration of problem-solving."
RESTLESSNESS of the workers might also be reduced by the ending of the co-determination negotiations. Workers being under a threat of being fired have until the end of the year to think about their future.
"We will work with outside companies to find jobs for those wishing to go. We are prepared to finance start-ups, and we have ideas for the development of our patented inventions in other companies, but the legal issues must first be resolved," Elop said.
Frappacino
2011-06-23, 10:42
lol you ppl
the war was lost a long time ago behind closed doors
you are just quibbling over the aftermath
"No return to MeeGo" means as a corporate strategy.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. If the N9 continues to be regarded as well as it is so far, Nokia abandoning it will just be an invitation for some other company to pick it up.
i can't believe to this fact...elop says
even if N9 sells 3 billion of unit, we don't produce any meego's phone
this mean:
i am an incompetent man, and at nokia are so stupid that i work here and noone say me that my strategy sucks
number41
2011-06-23, 10:53
This sh*t will f*ck you up... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1T4lXfEfyQ)
Nokia hasn't done any good for itself for a while, now... I can't help but feel that windows phone will be an epic fluke, that nokia will drown in its' dealings with the evil empire, just like everybody else has done so, and the gods they know what will become of the leftovers of the company.
Or maybe not. But honestly, I can't say that this bodes well. I can't recall any instance where a company actively adverstised its products to be of unsupported, beta quality, and managed to get away with good sales.
The company has basically stated that the N950 will be a beta product. The company has stated that the N9 will be the last of its line. Ecosystems seem to be a concern in today's cell phone business... So honestly, how in the name of the Hail Mary's holy sheet is this thing supposed to take off?!?!?
Either they're planning on selling it for truly cheap prices (yearite), or the market is dumber than we expect, which, even though the masses have proven time and time again that they ain't really in touch with the in-between ears thing, doesn't strike me as a possibility.
I can't help but see that Elop will go down in infamy (and in a frakkload of cash, also), while nokia goes down in flames...
Too much drama, I know, but I kinda had some hope in this whole Harmattan stint.
Elop has burned down the platform and now he's running the boat microsoft
i can't believe to this fact...elop says
even if N9 sells 3 billion of unit, we don't produce any meego's phone
this mean:
i am an incompetent man, and at nokia are so stupid that i work here and noone say me that my strategy sucks
What makes you think that he would allow 3 billion to be made. Eldar (not the most reliable source) says that Nokia will make manufacture only 92 000 N9s. Doubt that Eldar knows the exact amount, but I would not be suprised if the part and supply orders are minimal and designed to keep N9 from becoming something that would require real long term support.
come on guys we had to kill this **** man!
please stop that, I know you're not serious but still.
Just read that part:
Elop says that there is no return to Meego, even if the N9 is sales success.
"I have been watching the discussions with the telecom operators and consumers participated in the test groups. Feedback has been very positive and I am sure that Windows will be a success," Elop said.
In this context I would say elop didn't rule out any other meego phones, he just said wp7 will be a success and therfore it will be the main platform. I think at this point he essentially had to assert people that they still fully believe in wp7.
Meego will likely remain a niche platform to try new things though.
Eldar (not the most reliable source) says that Nokia will make manufacture only 92 000 N9s.
92000 n950s, not n9
zlatokosi
2011-06-23, 11:01
"I've talked a lot about how to increase people's sense of responsibility, empathy, listening to customers and each other and to avoid being arrogant," Elop said in an interview in Helsingin Sanomat on Wednesday.
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Idiot. Liar.
Yes it is a totally different article. That article on HS international edition is from yesterday. This is a Elop interview from today. This article doesn't even have translation at the HS international site yet.
I am reading the subscription one dated 23 at the office....btw it may be the case two versions has slightly different posts...has the Finland version quoted the exact words from Elop and Nokia that has the unambiguous meaning of "N9 is the first and last MeeGo phone" or "Nokia rejects the plan to produce more MeeGo phone" like the translation said?
If so, can you quote it? Again, I am fine if it is really the case.
number41
2011-06-23, 11:05
Do we at least get a Nokia "I own a f*cking NIT" barbecue, to go along with the whole Burning Platform rhetoric? Hope they don't expect us to turn our devices in for a 10% rebate on a WP PoS.
Hmmmm... Also, this thing is getting a lot of publicity. I wouldn't be surprised if it came along with a bucketload of bugs, just to "make a point" to the average computer illiterate user that Linux sucks and comes with a godamn whole lot of unsolvable problems.
Maybe this is phone is truly a good and solid strategy to get nokia's MeeGo intentions back on track (which I doubt), but more likely, this is the ultimate M$ advertisement that Linux sucks... Because it's one thing to hear it from a M$ spokesperson... And it's an entirely different thing to see the device BSODing all the time in your pocket, along with an "I told you so!" warning sign, and an "Nokia's Windows Phone is coming up, rebate for your phone!" marketing campaign.
Oh whatever, so much for truly derailed conspiracy theory rant.
If so, can you quote it? Again, I am fine if it is really the case.
There is no exact quote of Elop saying it.
According to Elop there’s no return to MeeGo, even if N9 would be a success.
It's not: According to Elop "there’s no return to MeeGo, even if N9 would be a success."
Jedibeeftrix
2011-06-23, 11:11
As usual we get a lot of hyperventilation over poorly understood quotes.
"Elop says that there is no return to Meego, even if the N9 is sales success."
No, there isn't. Nokia has made its choice to try and turn WP7 into the third major mobile ecosystem. If it turned around now as a result of the positive reaction to the N9 it would rightly be raped by the markets for utterly indecisive corporate leadership. Its shares would tank.
None of this is to say that there will be no further meego devices however.
According to Elop there’s no return to MeeGo, even if N9 would be a success.
Which means they won't ditch wp7 for meego. Nothing else. The fact he had to say this means they actually thought about it behind the scenes. A good sign.
I am reading the subscription one dated 23 at the office....btw it may be the case two versions has slightly different posts...
Seriously stop this silliness please.
These are completly different articles.I have read both and they are different articles. Not different versions!
The one you insanely keep bringing up is article about N9 announcement in Singapore. That's the article on HS international edition. http://www.hs.fi/english/archive/ look at the date on archieve list. It's 22.6.2011, also know as yesterday. The content of that article is totally different from the one we discuss in this thread.
The one this thread is about has nothing to with it. It's a totally different article that has an interview of Elop done in Finland and published today. Different articles from different day by different writers.
onethreealpha
2011-06-23, 11:20
Let me preface this post with the statement that I'm not an apologist for Elop.....
As CEO, from the operational perspective, he gets to say what gets to market and what doesn't.
Despite the push to WP, it is the Elop as the current CEO who has decided to go ahead with the N9 for the consumer market.
Remember that this device has come AFTER the N950.
From one of the Harmattan team, there is an admission that they worked feverishly to get it finished and polished enough for release and despite the multitude of rumours, we have already had a committment from Elop himself that Nokia intends to keep Meego for "future disruptions"
The "We are not going back to Meego" seems more to be a reference to the original plan to make Meego the core nokia high end OS.
Elop is committed to WP as their sole smartphone OS, but this does not exclude the release of other "disruptive" platforms.
Furthermore, Nokia has already made it clear (I posted the "forward looking statements" elsewhere) that everything they are doing now is subject to change "These statements are based on management’s best assumptions and beliefs in light of the information currently available to it. Because they involve risks and uncertainties, actual results may differ materially from the results that we currently expect. Factors that could cause these differences include, but are not limited to: 1) our ability to succeed in creating a competitive smartphone platform for high-quality differentiated winning smartphones"
don't think for a minute that if the N9 takes off and is a raging success, that they won't have an opt out clause in the MS deal, to let them push more meego/harmattan devices.
just my .02 ;)
Hate to be bringer of bad news, but as the title says, Elop says in interview on todays "Helsingin Sanomat" that N9 will be the last Meego phone even if its succesfull.
Released only to be excuse for killing Meego.
Google translation (propably gibberish) (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtv3.fi%2Fuutiset%2Ftalous.shtm l%2F2011%2F06%2F1350419%2Fhs-n9-jaa-nokian-ainoaksi-meego-puhelimeksi)
he knows for sure it wont be successful N9 is just to release something this year WPx is getting dressed up.
Jedibeeftrix
2011-06-23, 11:25
The "We are not going back to Meego" seems more to be a reference to the original plan to make Meego the core nokia high end OS.
agreed.
Elop is committed to WP as their sole smartphone OS, but this does not exclude the release of other "disruptive" platforms.
evidence for that statement? :)
i would more readily accept it if it said; "Elop is committed to WP as their sole smartphone platform" i.e. separate business unit, as we already know that Meego is ceasing to be a 'platform' in Nokia, and becoming a 'project'.
tkatchev
2011-06-23, 11:27
Its shares already tanked.
I think tanking shares is kinda the ultimate point, seeing as this is heading for a Microsoft takeover.
As usual we get a lot of hyperventilation over poorly understood quotes.
"Elop says that there is no return to Meego, even if the N9 is sales success."
No, there isn't. Nokia has made its choice to try and turn WP7 into the third major mobile ecosystem. If it turned around now as a result of the positive reaction to the N9 it would rightly be raped by the markets for utterly indecisive corporate leadership. Its shares would tank.
None of this is to say that there will be no further meego devices however.
As usual we get a lot of hyperventilation over poorly understood quotes.
"Elop says that there is no return to Meego, even if the N9 is sales success."
No, there isn't. Nokia has made its choice to try and turn WP7 into the third major mobile ecosystem. If it turned around now as a result of the positive reaction to the N9 it would rightly be raped by the markets for utterly indecisive corporate leadership. Its shares would tank.
None of this is to say that there will be no further meego devices however.
This is being quoted all round so the damage is already made. If the total killing of MeeGo was not what he meant he should be commenting this right away.
onethreealpha
2011-06-23, 11:29
agreed.
evidence for that statement? :)
i would more readily accept it if it said; "Elop is committed to WP as their sole smartphone platform" i.e. separate business unit, as we already know that Meego is ceasing to be a 'platform' in Nokia, and becoming a 'project'.
Original Slashgear Article (http://www.slashgear.com/apple-settles-in-nokia-patent-row-coughs-up-license-fees-14159143/) I linked to about Nokia-Apple licensing deal.
the Nokia statement from the press release is at the bottom. talks about their plan to make wp their sole mobile smartphone OS and then offers up a truckload of caveats...
edit: "new technologies" could be seen as software or hardware
Jedibeeftrix
2011-06-23, 11:30
Its shared already tanked.
I think tanking shares is kinda the ultimate point, seeing as this is heading for a Microsoft takeover.
they would tank some more.
Jedibeeftrix
2011-06-23, 11:37
Original Slashgear Article (http://www.slashgear.com/apple-settles-in-nokia-patent-row-coughs-up-license-fees-14159143/) I linked to about Nokia-Apple licensing deal.
the Nokia statement from the press release is at the bottom. talks about their plan to make wp their sole mobile smartphone OS and then offers up a truckload of caveats...
edit: "new technologies" could be seen as software or hardware
"the expected plans and benefits of our strategic partnership with Microsoft to combine complementary assets and expertise to form a global mobile ecosystem and to adopt Windows Phone as our primary smartphone platform"
"the expected timing of the planned transition to Windows Phone as our primary smartphone platform and the introduction of mobile products based on that platform"
primary, not sole.
Jedibeeftrix
2011-06-23, 11:38
This is being quoted all round so the damage is already made. If the total killing of MeeGo was not what he meant he should be commenting this right away.
what damage?
the fact that the 'evil' one has been misunderstood does not change the stated strategy, or the truth of the words he said, if that translation is accurate.
onethreealpha
2011-06-23, 11:40
good eye jedi. you using the force?
thus the door remains open for Meego.
ericsson
2011-06-23, 11:42
Here is a translation of the article quickle done with the help of Google translate:
Elop rules out the return of Meego
Nokia CEO promises to support those in danger of termination.
By Petri Sajari HS
MOBILE PHONE manufacturer Nokia’s CEO Stephen Elop promises the company to present soon a host of new inventions to improve the competitiveness of their mobile handsets.
According to Elop there have been major changes made in the company's internal working methods over the past four months, that will speed up the development of better phones and the practical implementation of the plans.
"I've talked a lot about how to increase people's sense of responsibility, empathy, listening to customers and each other and to avoid being arrogant," Elop said in an interview in Helsingin Sanomat on Wednesday.
AS AN EXAMPLE of new inventions he regards the N9-phone that was published on Tuesday, which, however, will go on sale in the autumn for more than a year late.
"It has a number of inventions regarding usability, design and materials, which we will utilize and develop further in future devices. I can not yet tell about them more, but they will soon be seen," Elop says.
Elop says that N9 is a device that is (more about) utilizing the Qt programming environment than the MeeGo operating system.
Qt programming environment allows applications to be programmed to operate on three of Nokia's operating system, but not on a Windows phone.
Elop says that there is no return to Meego, even if the N9 is sales success.
"I have been watching the discussions with the telecom operators and consumers participated in the test groups. Feedback has been very positive and I am sure that Windows will be a success," Elop said.
THE RECENT difficulties have made employees and investors doubt the company's ability to solve problems in time. Competitors' sales are growing, but the Nokia phones’ demand is decreasing.
This year, the share price has declined more than 40 percent, as investors are highly uncertain of the business development.
"I can well understand that investors want to see the results of a new strategy in its full glory. It will take some time, but when we are able to present the results of our strategy, I'm sure about the reduction of uncertainty."
Migration to software company Microsoft's Windows operating system is a frustration for many workers. Some fear that the company will become just a Microsoft OEM and subcontractor. Elop knocks out the idea.
"Nokia will continue product development in software, services and equipment design. We will build inventions to the Windows-based phones that will make us stand out from our competitors and will bring significant additional benefits for application developers."
According to Elop several software development projects have been established in recent months at Nokia. "Software product development workers are increasingly more motivated about our achievements. I am with dealing with them all the time. I keep getting e-mails, which describe the acceleration of problem-solving."
RESTLESSNESS of the workers might also be reduced by the ending of the co-determination negotiations. Workers being under a threat of being fired have until the end of the year to think about their future.
"We will work with outside companies to find jobs for those wishing to go. We are prepared to finance start-ups, and we have ideas for the development of our patented inventions in other companies, but the legal issues must first be resolved," Elop said.
Now I get it. The UI and Qt will soon be seen in S40. Nokia has officially said Qt for the next billion. The problem with MeeGo is it evolves too slow, and there is too much baggage. The problem with Symbian is it's a mess. S40 + Qt will be a light wheight smartphone platform. WP will be high end.
We will not see more MeeGo, but we will see billions of Qt+S40 running the N9 UI. :D
Jedibeeftrix
2011-06-23, 11:43
good eye jedi. you using the force?
thus the door remains open for Meego.
i have believed as much since February 12th:
http://jedibeeftrix.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/nokia-microsoft-and-what-it-means-for-qt-and-meego/
what damage?
the fact that the 'evil' one has been misunderstood does not change the stated strategy, or the truth of the words he said, if that translation is accurate.
Most of the media already believes this is last MeeGo phone seen. Now this being quoted on media puts the final nail in the coffin.
Nobody follow these MeeGo news as closely as we do and this one single quote will get a lot of attention. After this media can always quote this and downplay N9 news.
onethreealpha
2011-06-23, 11:54
Most of the media already believes this is last MeeGo phone seen. Now this being quoted on media puts the final nail in the coffin.
Nobody follow these MeeGo news as closely as we do and this one single quote will get a lot of attention. After this media can always quote this and downplay N9 news.
media is still flogging the "symbian is dead" horse too, but people are snapping up N8's, E7's and looking forward to the X7, so it just goes to show that not everyone believes what they read ;)
Jedibeeftrix
2011-06-23, 11:55
Most of the media already believes this is last MeeGo phone seen. Now this being quoted on media puts the final nail in the coffin.
Nobody follow these MeeGo news as closely as we do and this one single quote will get a lot of attention. After this media can always quote this and downplay N9 news.
i don't think it effects, as much as you believe, the chance of seeing future meego powered devices from nokia.
It's sad that a misunderstanding by a bunch of people who can't read should have such wide ramifications. The title on this thread is flat out untrue.
BigBadGuber!
2011-06-23, 11:58
Funny to say this but N9, is what an iphone SHOULD have been.
All that Elop is saying is what we knew: Meego is not a primary platform. There is nothing new there. He is not going back to Meego as a primary platform due to the lack of viable ecosystem.
It is interesting that peter@maemo, who posts here from time to time, mentioned yesterday or so that other meego devices are in the works...
zlatokosi
2011-06-23, 11:58
.... Despite the push to WP, it is the Elop as the current CEO who has decided to go ahead with the N9 for the consumer market.
That was a contractual obligation with Intel, to release a MeeGo device (wouldn't it be cool if Intel sued Nokia for NOT bringing a MeeGo device, as the N9 is really Harmattan!), not Elop's personal choice.
....don't think for a minute that if the N9 takes off and is a raging success, that they won't have an opt out clause in the MS deal, to let them push more meego/harmattan devices.
just my .02 ;)
That opt-out clause (if it exists) would cost billions...
Verythrax
2011-06-23, 12:05
That was a contractual obligation with Intel, to release a MeeGo device (wouldn't it be cool if Intel sued Nokia for NOT bringing a MeeGo device, as the N9 is really Harmattan!), not Elop's personal choice.
That opt-out clause (if it exists) would cost billions...
I don't think they will ever opt out WP7, but there's still a chance that they keep MeeGo in parallel, at least ;)
It's sad that a misunderstanding by a bunch of people who can't read should have such wide ramifications. The title on this thread is flat out untrue.
OK. I'll edit the title, if you feel that strongly about it. The current title is based on the first information availeable in the morning.
I'm now sure Elop has plenty of Meego products in the pipeline. We will see continuing support for Meego from Nokia.
EDIT: Title changed.
Well... at least I got a chance to see step 5 out of 5.
media is still flogging the "symbian is dead" horse too, but people are snapping up N8's, E7's and looking forward to the X7, so it just goes to show that not everyone believes what they read ;)
Symbian is tanking and we are talking about platform where phones start at 150 euros.
With MeeGo we are talking about phone that buyers most likely know much more about smartphones in general.
Some more thoughts:
First of all, as already mentioned, peter@marketing@nokia already said tha there will be another meego phone... i believe him.
Second, lets be reallistic. Nokia is the one mobile phone company in the world with no credit in their future talking. Rember N900, Harmattan, 4 form 5, Qt, MeeGo... Need to say more? Exactly one year from now, they were making simillar claims and ALL of them were falsified. (I'n referring to management decissions)
So, do you actually believe what they say? I believe that that's theis current strategy, but lets face it... Those words are not credible.
Finally, Elop targets his talks to different groups of people. Like a primeminister, he gives interviews tha are meant for the public, his partners, the opossition or the people inside Nokia. Elop currently mut ensure that N9 must not cause problems with MS ans that people inside Nokia must not believe that this is the future..
Having said all that, I believe that he considers the financial position knowing more than we do. Maemo has a lot of Nokia crap with it... Support for end users, ovi, support for app developers (companies), advertisement, etc. With the MS deal, a lot of them are gone away or reduced.
Stumbled upon this in one other topic inside forum:
http://www.technet.hu/telefon/20110624/exkluziv_video_elop_bemutatja_az_elso_windowsos_no kiat/
Watching it at the moment...
~2:30 Sea ray!!! !@#!$!@#$!#@@!
~3:30 Has haptics!
this sucks big time...
this is so lame compared to N9
~11:20 IE, I am so delighted. :mad:
Is this up on you tube or anyother player? The vid linked appears to be taking it's time buffering. Would be nice to watch it without pausing every so often :)
zehjotkah
2011-06-23, 13:48
First of all, as already mentioned, peter@marketing@nokia already said tha there will be another meego phone... i believe him.
I don't want to say I don't believe you.
I just would kindly ask for the source.
BigBadGuber!
2011-06-23, 13:51
I don't want to say I don't believe you.
I just would kindly ask for the source.
He did say that N9 is not disruptive, its whats coming after N9, implying more phones in the works.
Verythrax
2011-06-23, 13:54
He did say that N9 is not disruptive, its whats coming after N9, implying more phones in the works.
It implies that the proper disrupting devices are still to come (N9 is not one of them) but it doesn't imply that those other disrupting devices will run MeeGo.
rash.m2k
2011-06-23, 14:13
I don't think it's quite true, Nokia will still keep Meego in their back pocket.
IF WP7 is successfull they WILL get to a point where they will see WP7 as a burden and cashing in on Nokia's profits. Investors will want to see better margins this will put pressure on managers to reduce costs. Every business does this, it's a natural process; thats when they will remember Meego and start to throw their muscle behind Meego - and any other disruptive technologies they have developed.
If Elop decided to go purely with WP7 and NOTHING else is in Nokia's back pocket, there would be uproar in the board room.
Think of it this way: ALL investors follow ONE rule - don't put all your eggs in one basket, do you think they will stand for Elop putting all Nokia's eggs in the WP7 basket? I don't think so.
Elop may be the CEO, but the board will be down hard on his *** if he screws up and he knows it. As do the investors.
I don't want to say I don't believe you.
I just would kindly ask for the source.
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1034241&postcount=46
ste-phan
2011-06-23, 14:26
First what an idiot, can't believe they pay those guys such high salary.
First he starts with acknowledging reason for doubting the point as to why release N9 MeeGo in full WP7 transition.
Yes, there is indeed a point! The point is that many innovations of the N9 will live on! The user interface, the beautiful industrial design (argh - what design)
That crap design IS WP7 phone, it does nothing to make MeeGo live on, no, it will hide its ever existence to the masses.
Elop lesson of the day: indeed no more MeeGo phone and when you came, saw and stole an idea for the benefit of your true employers you are making sure the innovation lives on.
debernardis
2011-06-23, 14:38
Elop leaks the first wp7 nokia phone, the SeaRay, almost identical to the N9.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/23/nokias-first-windows-phone-images-and-video/
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/nokia-sea-ray-running-windows-phone-mango-front-on.jpg
Raubtier
2011-06-23, 14:47
the mere interface makes me cringe..
rotoflex
2011-06-23, 14:47
I don't understand why Nokia's shareholders haven't gone to the board with torches & pitchforks.
Without Elop constantly extolling a Nokia project and product independent of Microsoft, Nokia becomes more & more the Microsoft Mobile R&D and manufacturing arm.
Maybe the Nokia board thought it would be best to work toward such an inevitable merger, or even they could have been naive enough to think that a takeover would be the best support for Nokia shares. But Nokia's status to Microsoft if WP7 phones are successful is so component, that a takeover wouldn't be necessary. After Nokia becomes the MS Mobile phone development & manufacturing arm, MS will just hire any developers they wanted, & then like everyone else move manufacturing to China where it's cheapest.
The board couldn't have been thinking to take on a turnaround CEO. The question is were they naive enough to think they were going to have Ballmer steer a takeover/merger, or even a Kerkorian style breakup selling the pieces, when the obvious track is cherry picking existing R&D and temporarily manufacturing assets.
After an announcement that Nokia is not vigorously pursuing a product of its own independent of Microsoft, I would be astonished if share price didn't collapse almost completely. The for-now performance of base model phone sales is not going to bring investor confidence in the *future*, which is what's looked at by investors.
Verythrax
2011-06-23, 14:54
Nokia shares raised 6% when the N9 was announced, now it went down 3% when the WP7 phone was shown:
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3ANOK
thingonaspring
2011-06-23, 14:56
http://www.investorguide.com/stock.php?ticker=NOK
22nd - stock goes up on the back of N9 and N950 press.
23rd - stock down on the back of the windows 7 thing and Elop's extremely ill-advised "don't buy the N9, it's windows or nothing" interview.
Stock is currently just 10 cents above the 52-week low of $5.79. (52-wk high is $11.75).
This was supposed to be Elop's big moment to reassure the investors. They do not look reassured to me.
Windows 7 was supposed to save nokia from a failing Meego project. From where I'm sat it looks like Meego, the N9 and the N950 are a lot more advanced and ready for launch than the windows 7 thing that I struggle to care about.
[edit] @verythrax - hehe jinx!
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1034241&postcount=46
If that is really the only verifying quote -- it doesn't say anything about future meego devices, just future disruption.
So, do you actually believe what they say? I believe that that's their current strategy, but lets face it... Those words are not credible.
Clarification: I was referring to the "there is not future for MeeGo phones" thing. Nokia claiming that WP is the future is not different than claiming that MeeGo is the future.
And if you believe that a partnership with MS is too big to screw, think of the partnership with Intel, the buying of Symbian and Trolltech, the scrapping of Maemo, .... enough said.
zlatokosi
2011-06-23, 17:35
Clarification: I was referring to the "there is not future for MeeGo phones" thing. Nokia claiming that WP is the future is not different than claiming that MeeGo is the future.
And if you believe that a partnership with MS is too big to screw, think of the partnership with Intel, the buying of Symbian and Trolltech, the scrapping of Maemo, .... enough said.
Screwing Intel and MS are two very different things. Especially if your future (current by now?) OS is pretty much dependent upon MS. With Intel it was pretty much a hardware issue, but with MS, their backsides are on the line. Literally.
Having said that, I'm sure Nokia will keep it's Maemo/MeeGo branch/department as it's technology RD pearl. I just doubt they will keep using the MeeGo platform (instead, they will probably concentrate on developing Maemo further), or release any phones to the public. They have made it quite clear to us now, which is a shame. It will probably be a testing ground for new innovative technology to be later adopted with WP7. If the new Nokia WP7 get haptics, that would certainly prove my point.
I expect to be looking for a replacement of my NIT quite soon. And for the first time in ages, Nokia won't be offering anyhting in that department. And that just makes me feel sad.
godofwar424
2011-06-23, 18:06
On the bright side, seeing as no support from launch really means people are gonna be put off buying it.
That should mean developers have no platform to develop for, meaning the N950 could appear on alot of websites for sale :)
lemmyslender
2011-06-23, 18:18
Why wouldn't you all believe it? Just because you know better what investor want or how a company should run?
Look back 6-8 months ago. Everyone was throwing around the multitude of reasons why Nokia would NEVER partner with Microsoft. People even suggesting that such a thing was even possible were accused of spreading FUD and being labeled as trolls.
Now, here we are again discussing why something is wrong and wouldn't really happen. Deja Vu anyone?
As vi points out, you can't trust what elop says, as things and directions in the company are subject to change. Of course, the same would also apply to Peter. And as other have noted, Peter didn't say there were more phones on the way (it is implied, but not exactly something you could hold him to). Future disruptions could mean just about anything.
Perhaps he is afraid that his new invented iPhone like business model to sell as much applications as possible thru the ovi store wouldn't work at a open source mobile...
Bad news is bad, but not news. That this was only released because of the promises they've made, a lot of us realized already.
It's no wonder if half the braintrust leaves Nokia like they do now, even if Elop is RIGHT, it still is hard to let go of as good an idea as MeeGo. And nobody really knows if he is right - infact, lots of **** indicates that he's running the company into an early grave.
I bet he lost a huge chunk of his top dynamic thinkers and doers.
FYI: in business, you can assume that anything that has not been inked in contract are still in constant negotiation.
It seems to me that Elop is as selfish as any professionals would be; he may have used MS as a stepping stone otw to where he is right now (top guy of the biggest mobile phone producer out there), but I doubt that his allegiance to MS is as blind as a fanboy's.
N9 and MeeGo, could be his bargaining chip against MS. If N9+MeeGo is successful, he will use it to gain more favorable terms in his dealings against MS (Since Nokia is gasping for breath/cash right now); and may use MeeGo on its own when Nokia is able to stand on its own again.
It's so refreshing to see someone Get It.
I bet he lost a huge chunk of his top dynamic thinkers and doers.
No need to bet, we keep seeing the announcements.
Has anybody considered this before talking about him getting fired by the board: Nokia are in Ballmers pocket, they made an agreement for billions of dollars, this includes the board who would know about this. We do not know the details of this agreement at all. It could include a contract for exclusive OS use. Meaning that once Nokias obligation to Intel for a meego handset had been met they would not, or rather cannot, create any other handsets with meego. The N9 is a past obligation handset to Intel, perhaps not one they even wanted to release after the deal with MS. This would explain Elops downplaying of meego and the WP7 leaks, they may not have a choice for some time, until the contract runs out.
mikecomputing
2011-06-25, 16:28
I'm fairly certain that overall Elop is executing board's earlier made decisions. But at the same time I assume that former CEO and now the chairman of the board Jorma Ollila wouldn't be this quick to say no to Meego. It's not Elop alone who can kill linux inside Nokia, but of course he's got a lot of power to drive it down.
The history will tell us what Elop was really like as a CEO. Whether he really disses anything else than Microsoft's products remains to be seen.
Personally I'm afraid that he came to Nokia to be prepped to succeed Ballmer as a CEO of Microsoft, and he lets nothing get in the way of Nokia becoming a Windows Phone-only house.
As a Finn and as a European I'm really sad that after Nokia moves to Windows Phone there are only three major players in the mobile OS industry: iOS, Android and WinPhone, and they are all American, and the companies behind them are not exactly the most consumer friendly ones.
We can fight back this and atleast make sure WP doesnt success in northeuropean. Northeuropeans should just boycott WP phones comming from Nokia :mad: and buy N9 even if MrFlop is trying to kill it and say it will not have apps etc...
Yeah I know we are very few people in northeur... but atleast we can make Meego alive in north european. I mean even norwegian people should dislike if Qt gets killed in the long run :mad:
Qt and part of Linux is a our innovations so dont let Microsoft killit.
I have ZERO respect for MS and even if the new WP7 phones from Nokia will have HDMI tripplecore CPU and adobeflash or whatever I will simply not buy it! Not even if this was the only opinion in the future then I beter not have a smartphone thats for sure.
HaugMedia
2011-06-25, 16:52
Guys, I don't get the article.
Because read here: http://www.tu.no/forbruker/article288395.ece
“People don’t need to worry about we not supporting MeeGo wholeheartedly.” – Oskar Södergren, Communication Manager Nokia Scandinavia
He says that WP7 is and will be the main platform, but MeeGo still lives as the disruptor.
Even a Norwegian representative said the same thing.
Shut up with that finnish newspaper already!
Guys, I don't get the article.
Because read here: http://www.tu.no/forbruker/article288395.ece
“People don’t need to worry about we not supporting MeeGo wholeheartedly.” – Oskar Södergren, Communication Manager Nokia Scandinavia
He says that WP7 is and will be the main platform, but MeeGo still lives as the disruptor.
Even a Norwegian representative said the same thing.
Shut up with that finnish newspaper already!
This is exactly what i was saying here before already.
Even if Helsingin Sanomat quoted it all wrong the word is already out and you are not going to change that.
Elop or some Nokia spokesperson would have said something officially the day HS published the article if he did not mean it or did not want this to happen. Bloomberg and Business week where quoting it the day it came out.
the finns have lost it a long time ago when they put Elop in charge of the whole operation ;) thats why the company moving out very soon...
well thanks to this thread and the article, we might get a straigh answer from the CEO himself about support for N9.
droitwichgas
2011-06-25, 17:40
well thanks to this thread and the article, we might get a straigh answer from the CEO himself about support for N9.
What makes you think 1) Elop reads this forum? 2) Gives a damn about what poeple post on here if he does?
Either he's a clown when it comes to being a CEO, which I doubt, or destroying the meego good news story is all part of his plan.
What makes you think 1) Elop reads this forum? 2) Gives a damn about what poeple post on here if he does?
Either he's a clown when it comes to being a CEO, which I doubt, or destroying the meego good news story is all part of his plan.
Elop reads Engadget,
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/25/nokias-stephen-elop-is-still-over-meego-even-if-the-n9-is-a-hi/
and
Via: Maemo (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=74257)
Source: Helsingin Sanomat (http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Nokia+CEO+Stephen+Elop+rules+out+possible+comeback +of+MeeGo/1135267179932)
scapegoat845
2011-06-25, 17:52
Yea, newspapers don't make stuff up.... Look at the N.Y. Post
:D
droitwichgas
2011-06-25, 18:29
Elop reads Engadget,
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/25/nokias-stephen-elop-is-still-over-meego-even-if-the-n9-is-a-hi/
and
What more straight an answer can you get than from the Engadet article? If Elop's not coming straight out and saying they have got it wrong then surely it must be right?
What more straight an answer can you get than from the Engadet article? If Elop's not coming straight out and saying they have got it wrong then surely it must be right?
The point is in Helsingin Sanomat article, it wasn't clear whether the answer is about a total drop out of Meego even with ít being a success or just not going back to the strategy planned by OPK and co. With this news generating alot of attention and many questioning his position as a true leader of Nokia. I think he should step on and make clear of this.
Self resignation isn't only one way to change CEO. Ho ever, unfortunately, if "deciding powers" would have brain, they would never choose him. We'll see if Nokia is one of the brand to disappear in 2012 (http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/112989/brands-disappear-2012-247) (or any near point in future).
I bet on microsoft buying Nokia. Someone want to bet other company? ;)
Maybe we as Maemo community should stop being kind, and start true "offensive" against Elop? they're going to stop financing maemo.org anyway - and as guys from LibreOffice proved, Open Source community can as well finance on it's self - so what we've to loose?
Birds sing that Elop leadership is questioned more and more even at Nokia itself. Good guys there can't just plain ask us for "rebellion", but acting like that may help "spinning outward" moves inside - who knows how far rage from our "little" community can reach. Maybe to some mass-media also? Elop with his egocentric personality is great target, and i personally would like to see him @ mass-media crosshair.
At least it could not get worse that it's now ;)
I think we should collect some money, buy some nokia stocks so we are allowed to send two representetives to nokia every time they have meetings for share holders. We will send one in a meego dress and one in the windows 7 dress. They shall start a fight and the meego guy shall knock the windows guy out infront of Elop and all the rest of the share holders so they understand how strong meego is :D
Sorry to say that, but it's not even funny. And i was serious in my last post. Really.
number41
2011-06-25, 19:24
The only reason they haven't pulled the funding thus far is mostly not to give substance to rumours that MeeGo was dead... Or at least that's what makes sense.
Now that those are no longer rumours, and MeeGo is announced to be stillborn in Nokia, by Nokia itself...
Expect it to come. Soon.
mrexcess
2011-06-25, 19:37
<rant>
ugh well that answers that then, k thnx bye nokia.
wont be going Win Phone and sybian's a joke so nokia dont get any more of my money.
so much fail
</rant>
i want mee go buying this phone NOW :)
Someone was asking for a youtube link for the leaked video from the hungarian site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6oidCTUw4s
Let the man do the talking.
I just really want to know how the UI will live on... Hope not in a WP7 or 8
I personally don't mind that Nokia is switching from symbian to WP as long as they keep MeeGo even if not for the avarage customers but for us.
Sorry to say that, but it's not even funny. And i was serious in my last post. Really.
Too bad your post was so ridiculous and misinformed that people couldn't take you seriously.
Elop made a mediated choice: the partnership with Microsoft. If one day, he announce that this choice, jeopardize jobs and money (and other factors) was the bad one, I let you imagine the consequences ? He can't admit it (MeeGo back or Plan B).
I'm maybe wrong but this possibility exist. :)
Nokia has gone from a company where you thought your input welcome (and it wasn't but you didn't know it) to a company where your input isn't welcome and you know it.
turbowei
2011-06-26, 03:19
Sometimes I do feel like Elop is doing his best to kill Nokia. He wants instant success so he decided on Windows Phone instead of Android. In house they have a great product that can be a success and rule their own f* ecosystem but no let's dump it even before it get to consumers and start from the beginning. He said many great features found in N9 will be available on WP, does he mean the lack of HDMI or the swipe UI that got praised all over the web? Seriously, what the hell ??
PS. I need some coffee
IMO, android looks like child's toy compared to meego.
Frappacino
2011-06-26, 03:42
some of you guys live in denial or what ?
Elop is not stupid - he knows what he said - and he knows what the paper printed - and he knows how rumours will get started as Gerbick said - and he knows how such rumours will impact N9 release and sales.
Does he come out and issue a clarification in a press release ? Does he call the paper and say "Actually thats not what I meant ?"
No he does not.
What do you think that means ?
Use some common sense people - Elope, the CEO, is not trying his hardest push the N9, which is THE main product AT THIS TIME when windows phone has not been released yet.
And this is ALL you need to know about future Meego support by Nokia.
Any argument about "other sources" and some "interpretation" of what his words meant are just a waste of time.
some of you guys live in denial or what ?
Elop is not stupid - he knows what he said - and he knows what the paper printed - and he knows how rumours will get started as Gerbick said - and he knows how such rumours will impact N9 release and sales.
Does he come out and issue a clarification in a press release ? Does he call the paper and say "Actually thats not what I meant ?"
No he does not.
What do you think that means ?
Use some common sense people - Elope, the CEO, is not trying his hardest push the N9, which is THE main product AT THIS TIME when windows phone has not been released yet.
And this is ALL you need to know about future Meego support by Nokia.
Any argument about "other sources" and some "interpretation" of what his words meant are just a waste of time.
the guy is a idiot. WP7 its year behind meego. n9 is ready
w7-w8 are not. even with mango meego superior multitask years ahead.
and yes its pretty obvious he trying to destroy nokia.
Frappacino
2011-06-26, 04:36
the guy is an idiot ?
that only applies if you think his goal is to advance meego
if his goal is to advance wp at all costs then he has been scoring goals
i always find it amusing that armchair pundits can call ceos idiots without qualifying their comments - by any measure the ceo is actually there and much more successful then the pundit who criticises without action or consrquences
We can fight back this and atleast make sure WP doesnt success in northeuropean. Northeuropeans should just boycott WP phones comming from Nokia :mad: and buy N9 even if MrFlop is trying to kill it and say it will not have apps etc...
Yeah I know we are very few people in northeur... but atleast we can make Meego alive in north european. I mean even norwegian people should dislike if Qt gets killed in the long run :mad:
Qt and part of Linux is a our innovations so dont let Microsoft killit.
I have ZERO respect for MS and even if the new WP7 phones from Nokia will have HDMI tripplecore CPU and adobeflash or whatever I will simply not buy it! Not even if this was the only opinion in the future then I beter not have a smartphone thats for sure.
dude, you should start a campaign against nokia...
heard of those hungerstrike movements...?
you should do a gadgetstrike... protest them by living for 30+ days without any electronic gadgets whatsoever.... that'll show 'em!!
My favourite part was where he assumed that a region of the world encompassing several countries actually collectively care about the "open-ness" of a smartphone OS.
ste-phan
2011-06-26, 10:36
the guy is an idiot ?
that only applies if you think his goal is to advance meego
if his goal is to advance wp at all costs then he has been scoring goals
i always find it amusing that armchair pundits can call ceos idiots without qualifying their comments - by any measure the ceo is actually there and much more successful then the pundit who criticises without action or consrquences
The CEO is there and successful because he is there? Why is he there? Why this MS tied American?
How high do you estimate the number of qualified persons available to lead Nokia to success with Maemo / MeeGo as lead OS? That is what we want right? That is what Nokia wanted (?) two years ago isn't it?
Then why not choose some Linux minded Chinese for CEO. 1.3 Billion Chinese available and if only 1 on 100 million qualifies, that still leaves 13 potential Elop replacements.
At least this CEO would understand Nokia's main target market better. There is a fight going on in the low end mobile sector too, remember?
But no - there is only one Elop that can guide Nokia to the light :rolleyes:
droitwichgas
2011-06-26, 10:56
.
the guy is an idiot ?
that only applies if you think his goal is to advance meego
if his goal is to advance wp at all costs then he has been scoring goals
i always find it amusing that armchair pundits can call ceos idiots without qualifying their comments - by any measure the ceo is actually there and much more successful then the pundit who criticises without action or consrquences
Who but an idiot would appear at the announcement of the N9 one day and get rave reviews for the phone/UI but then next day destroy the phone/OS by suggesting the OS has no future, and also "accidentially" show a N9.running Wp7?
Why didn'y he simply stay away from the N9 announcement in the first place?
My favourite part was where he assumed that a region of the world encompassing several countries actually collectively care about the "open-ness" of a smartphone OS.
Well considering that this talk happens at linux-based maemo's user forum it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to think that at least quite a big portion of users might, you know, still want to have linux as an option in their future gadgets?
So what about you? You're from Australia and if I remember correctly your government has been trying for years to make e.g. the internet not-free. Which one would you like: a government controlled internet or a non-controlled internet? Some people would like to have a phone OS that is as far away from being locked-down by a manufacturer or by one company as it can be.
dude, you should start a campaign against nokia...
heard of those hungerstrike movements...?
you should do a gadgetstrike... protest them by living for 30+ days without any electronic gadgets whatsoever.... that'll show 'em!!
Aww, I never quite understand whether you're trolling or not. One option is also that you are drunk constantly. Just joking!!!
Well considering that this talk happens at linux-based maemo's user forum it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to think that at least quite a big portion of users might, you know, still want to have linux as an option in their future gadgets?
Because everyone in Northern Europe is a TMO user.
So what about you? You're from Australia and if I remember correctly your government has been trying for years to make e.g. the internet not-free. Which one would you like: a government controlled internet or a non-controlled internet? Some people would like to have a phone OS that is as far away from being locked-down by a manufacturer or by one company as it can be.
Doesn't matter, I'm behind seven proxies.
Because everyone in Northern Europe is a TMO user.
The idea behind my post was that it's pretty common here for people to make fun of open source ideals. You and yessssss or whatever snake hiss his name is attacked someone who has ideals.
Doesn't matter, I'm behind seven proxies.
Don't worry, in the end they'll get you anyway.
ericsson
2011-06-26, 11:46
Saw that Sea Ray leaked video once more. Qt is continuing onto the "next million" but the N9 UI is going into something else apparently. I wonder what, it can only be WP, Symbian or maybe a tablet. But is that a good tablet UI? maybe, but it fits perfectly on a phone IMO.
The UI really is perfect, simplicity and power in perfect harmony, the very essence of a multitasking OS on a phone, I just love it. I hope it comes to Symbian as it already have all the pieces ready :)
TimusEravan
2011-06-27, 09:28
It is so sad to see a great company destroy itself :(
with meego nokia would have been no. 1 again instead of just another peddler of generic phones
dude, you should start a campaign against nokia...
heard of those hungerstrike movements...?
you should do a gadgetstrike... protest them by living for 30+ days without any electronic gadgets whatsoever.... that'll show 'em!!
Power to the people! :)
Sorry if this is a very stupid question:
If the N9 is the last and only meego device, ¿What are developers of the N950 working on? What OS is developers N950 running?
Sorry if this is a very stupid question:
If the N9 is the last and only meego device, ¿What are developers of the N950 working on? What OS is developers N950 running?
The N950 is not a commercial device so it doesn't count. It runs same OS as N9.
The N950 is not a commercial device so it doesn't count. It runs same OS as N9.
I know but, if it will not be a commercial device, why are developers putting on time on the N950?
I know but, if it will not be a commercial device, why are developers putting on time on the N950?
Because Nokia is loaning them out (https://meego.com/community/device-program/devices/nokia-n9-devkit), and apps developed on N950 will run on N9.
Yeah, they are putting time on the N950 to do Nokia a big favor so that the N9 won't be without apps when it launches.
Or, alternatively, they aren't putting time on the N950 after hearing what Nokia has to say about MeeGo's future... But then someone else applies for and gets the N950 instead. Gotta be 250 people in the world who either believes in MeeGo, or would say they do, to test the N950 for a while.
ericsson
2011-06-27, 16:31
Because Nokia is loaning them out (https://meego.com/community/device-program/devices/nokia-n9-devkit), and apps developed on N950 will run on N9.
Yes, but why? If you want to develop on the N9, why not use the N9?
Yes, but why? If you want to develop on the N9, why not use the N9?
N950 is available NOW, and since it was discontinued for launch, Nokia has no problem providing them to developers as loans.
Also, think of this as developing for MeeGo, not just N9.
Gotta be 250 people in the world who either believes in MeeGo, or would say they do, to test the N950 for a while.
The review and approval process for N950 dev devices is TOUGH.
esthreel
2011-06-27, 16:38
Please guys, sign this.
http://twitition.com/3c3ah
ericsson
2011-06-27, 16:46
N950 is available NOW, and since it was discontinued for launch, Nokia has no problem providing them to developers as loans.
Also, think of this as developing for MeeGo, not just N9.
OK, makes sense. I was not aware it was available now.
Another thing, the "next million", is this it: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Develop/Web/Series_40_web_apps/
Web apps for the S40?
it's the next billion; nokia brings internet (= series 40) to the next billion.
yamakasi
2011-06-27, 16:55
funny how Nokia still marketing the N9 after Elop statement about Meego, they are targeting N900 users
try to visit ovi store on the N900 it will redirect you to N9 official page.
http://link.ovi.mobi/n900ovistore
shallimus
2011-06-27, 17:00
funny how Nokia still marketing the N9 after Elop statement about Meego, they are targeting N900 users
try to visit ovi store on the N900 it will redirect you to N9 official page.
http://link.ovi.mobi/n900ovistore
Interesting; wonder if that's an on-purpose thing? Well spotted.
<sarcasm>
So the N900 Ovi store is now marginally more useful/interesting than it was when the link for the N900 Ovi store took you to the N900 Ovi store...
</sarcasm>
ericsson
2011-06-27, 17:11
it's the next billion; nokia brings internet (= series 40) to the next billion.
Typo. I was wondering if that is IT? The next billion touted by Nokia. I mean, it's not too impressive.
Typo. I was wondering if that is IT? The next billion touted by Nokia. I mean, it's not too impressive.
a billion new customers would not be impressive? :confused:
MaemoCurmudgeon
2011-06-27, 17:58
Fire the man immediately! A CEO's only job is to create shareholder value,empower staff and make a profit. If the N9 is so hot, Nokia should relase in all markets. If by accident Nokia has made a novel and appealing device that people actually want, it is insane not to move it to the top of the priority list. Let it become the aspirational device that people want-need.
Verythrax
2011-06-27, 18:20
Typo. I was wondering if that is IT? The next billion touted by Nokia. I mean, it's not too impressive.
I think it's part of it, not the whole strategy. Isn't part of it Qt going to S40 as well? the new C2 phones will have maps and turn by turn navigation - on a featurephone.
The idea is to bring the S40 one step up to overcome the competition. I would prefer making the S60 to run on the lower-end but what do I know?
Unless there is some super-smart plan unfolding now, I'd guess that the one standing on the burning platform is Elop himself.
Since he took on the job as CEO the stock has roughly shrunk to half the price, and the curve has been steady downwards since that.
On top of that, add all his not-so-consistent roadmap for the future that he's been slaloming through lately.
If the market ditches the WP phones and the media continues to scream for Meego-devices, I'd say he'd better prepare to jump. I'm not so certain that the board and/or shareholders are happy with present business.
I think it's part of it, not the whole strategy. Isn't part of it Qt going to S40 as well? the new C2 phones will have maps and turn by turn navigation - on a featurephone.
The idea is to bring the S40 one step up to overcome the competition. I would prefer making the S60 to run on the lower-end but what do I know?
symbian was being killed and badmouthed by it CEO.
it got not change of getting backup
a billion new customers would not be impressive? :confused:
It would be, if it ever happened. I suspect "next billion" is more wishful thinking and marketing spin than anything resembling reality.
somedude
2011-06-28, 00:05
Nokia has gone from a company where you thought your input welcome (and it wasn't but you didn't know it) to a company where your input isn't welcome and you know it.
Deep bold voice while playing this (http://sadviolin.com/) in the background would have been better, for current TMO especially N9 related topic lurkers.
ericsson
2011-06-28, 06:43
a billion new customers would not be impressive? :confused:
Web apps on the S40 isn't exactly impressive when Samsung can deliver genuine smartphones running Bada for the same price and less.
Somebody heard anything new about richard green? The timing of his "medical leave" seems to indicate he wanted to stay until meego is finished and then wait for nokia to make up its mind.
If meego is excluded, what will be the future disruptions ?
If they are moving away from Meego, why were the advertising Meego (N950) in the Transformers?
Because those were the futuristic disruptions.
It was actually a misquote...
Elop was quoted to say that "the next major product from Nokia will be a disruptive device" whereas he actually said that "I will disrupt the next major product from Nokia, eh."
Mandibela
2011-06-30, 19:18
"Elopin mukaan Meegoon ei ole paluuta, vaikka N9 olisi myyntimenestys."
This is no analyst speculation. Any hope after that is just wishful thinking.
Mh... So, MeeGo just won't be the main platform for Nokia, even though N9 succeeds. This was the main debate at Nokia, and they decided to go WM.
Elop just says that the decision is final, they won't leave WM and switch the main Nokia smartphone OS to MeeGo even if the N9 is successful.
But it also means that MeeGo won't be killed off after N9, even if it would by some miracle flop totally.
It would not take a miracle for a step daughter product like Maemo / MeeGo to flop. Not unless you count lack of marketing, lack of distribution, and low production rate as a miracle.
Mh... So, MeeGo just won't be the main platform for Nokia, even though N9 succeeds. This was the main debate at Nokia, and they decided to go WM.
Elop just says that the decision is final, they won't leave WM and switch the main Nokia smartphone OS to MeeGo even if the N9 is successful.
But it also means that MeeGo won't be killed off after N9, even if it would by some miracle flop totally.
No, but Quim Gill said on his blog that there wouldn't be any more Maemo/Meego at Nokia. It's over.
http://flors.wordpress.com/
- If the Nokia N9 is successful will you ship more high-end smartphones powered either by MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan or a fully compliant MeeGo?
Since #feb11 Nokia has a clear software strategy where high-end smartphones are covered by the collaboration with Microsoft on Windows Phone, therefore the consequent answer is the one already given by Stephen Elop: No.
If a company acts so stupid, it deserves to go down. I feel sad for Nokia anyhow.
I hope you people realise Quim is just making a logical inference based on existing public evidence; he knows as much as anyone else here, which is to say very little.
I hope you people realise Quim is just making a logical inference based on existing public evidence; he knows as much as anyone else here, which is to say very little.
You do realize that Quim works on Meego integration and Maemo/Meego devices at Nokia and he would know whether or not they're planning a N9 successor?
He's not some talk.maemo.org dude like you and I.
Doesn't mean he's privy to any and all activity around the MeeGo project, and doesn't mean that his claims should be assumed as the be-all and end-all. As he says himself, the mobile landscape will likely be remarkably different in 12 months time.
Web apps on the S40 isn't exactly impressive when Samsung can deliver genuine smartphones running Bada for the same price and less.
Your faith in Bada doesn't seem to be shared by the majority of the customers outside of Europe.
does that mean, there wont be N950?
does that mean, there wont be N950?
wake up...
does that mean, there wont be N950?
There will be a N950, for developers only. The N9 is for customers. And there's no follow-up device planned after the Maemo 6/Harmattan devices listed above.
...and there's no follow-up activity planned after the Maemo 6/Harmattan devices listed above.
I would be surprised if it even get as much Nokia late life cycle software upgrades as the N900(!). Expect NOTHING that isn't ready or promised in writing at release day. But then, I am quite sure that many Nokia employees will hold the N9 close to their hearts, so who knows.
Jedibeeftrix
2011-07-04, 09:03
No, but Quim Gill said on his blog that there wouldn't be any more Maemo/Meego at Nokia. It's over.
http://flors.wordpress.com/
- If the Nokia N9 is successful will you ship more high-end smartphones powered either by MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan or a fully compliant MeeGo?
Since #feb11 Nokia has a clear software strategy where high-end smartphones are covered by the collaboration with Microsoft on Windows Phone, therefore the consequent answer is the one already given by Stephen Elop: No.
question - do we care whether future linux/qt devices carry the meego brand?
i ask because quim was pretty categoric that linux has a future with nokia.
http://jedibeeftrix.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/meegoharmattan-a-woefully-misunderstood-platform/
question - do we care whether future linux/qt devices carry the meego brand?
i ask because quim was pretty categoric that linux has a future with nokia.
http://jedibeeftrix.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/meegoharmattan-a-woefully-misunderstood-platform/
That is the question for someone like Rich Green. I don't see how qgil can guarantee it.
To me branding does not mean anything, as long as system stays/becomes (more) open.
That is the question for someone like Rich Green.
Mr. Green left Nokia.
If the rumours are correct, his departure said quite a bit about Linux/Meego's future at Nokia.
question - do we care whether future linux/qt devices carry the meego brand?
i ask because quim was pretty categoric that linux has a future with nokia.
http://jedibeeftrix.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/meegoharmattan-a-woefully-misunderstood-platform/
Quim have no clue. This is above him and it seems that the decision is taken.
But, I'm one of those strange pople that still belives in yet another maemo/meego device after n9 and it might be a PAD.
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