View Full Version : Nokia N9 Screen Troubles (someone help me out confirm this)
Okay first post here, but I gotta find out wether or not I am alone on this one.
I bought a Nokia N9 last Friday (30th September) and when I bought it had a hardware related screen issue. Here is how to test whether or not you have it:
Go to a completely dark room. All dark. No light at all. Go into the camera app on Nokia N9.
If you got the issue you should see black spots on your screen where the brightness is different than the rest of the screen. I went over to the store today and got a replacement. But it also got this issue. Black spots that are clear on a grey background.
Furthermore my replacement phone had a new screen issue and somebody please test this out whether its only my phone or if its truly a hardware fault.
The second issue can be found this way:
Lower brightness below 50 %. Clear all browser cookies and private data. Go to your browser. Flip phone to land scape mode. Notice the white static flicker lines on the screen?
Don't know if I should just deal with these faults since they are minor and that the Nokia N9 is my dreamphone or if I should go request yet another replacement phone.
So anyone else got these troubles?
Oh also as a bonus question does anyone know how to turn off auto contrast/saturation/brightness? Its pissing me off :s
Hm, I wonder if these could be pentile matrix artifacts?
Hm, I wonder if these could be pentile matrix artifacts?
I don't know for sure :s
My replacement didn't have as many black spots (only 2, each one close to the upper corners) but some weird purple line/flicker appears when scrolling on a white website (like Engadget.com)
as far as i knew the screen in the N9 glued to the glass without leaving any gap! (and it has an curved glass) could this be the issue ? lot totally glued! not ready???
I have none of these issues.
benny1967
2011-10-16, 11:46
Similar to weird0:
a) When scrolling (for example on a web page, but also on the events view), the letters seem to change color until it all comes to a halt again.
b) When I have black text on white background and the phone is in portrait mode, the white area to the left and right of the black text is slightly darker than the area above and below where there's no text at all throughout the screen.
I really don't know what to do. If it stays this way, I'd probably just keep it.... (Even if it's a bit odd for such an expensive device) It may even be difficult to explain to the people at the shop what exactly I find wrong with the display. My problem is that it may just be a first sign of worse things to come...
my screen seems fine, will do tests mentioned though. I hate the auto brightness function, it seems to work randomly.
fahadj2003
2011-10-16, 12:39
i think what you're talking about is called dead pixels..
google it.. if thats the case, replace the phone..
did camera app test, my screens fine
benny1967
2011-10-17, 20:16
I wonder if at least some of the issues described here and at
http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4730
are not hardware faults, but driver related? I may sound desperate (which I am...), but really: I don't want to bring back my shiny new device and wait for a repair/replacement. I want to keep it and play with it.
The browser itself seems to have some tiling issues in landscape. You can see lines and squares at some specific zoom levels, depending on the page of course. Together with amoled pentile matrix they seem to create effects that resemble moire in a straight line.
I wonder if at least some of the issues described here and at
http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4730
are not hardware faults, but driver related? I may sound desperate (which I am...), but really: I don't want to bring back my shiny new device and wait for a repair/replacement. I want to keep it and play with it.
Finally I am not alone! I loved the N9 and as I said earlier it really is my dreamphone!
But I ended up going to the store and get a refund. Seriously the phone cost 5500 DKK in my country which translates into 1010.713 U.S. dollars. When I pay that much for a phone I at least expect it to have a proper screen :P
Also this is a very generic issue. I had the issue on all 3 phones the store gave me, I found in on 2 of the demo phones in the store (the store is called Three) and I even found the issue on 2 of the managers phones to prove my point to him.
This seems to a problem spread on all phones (at least all the one shipped to Denmark)
Don't know how to edit my post, but I found some of the pictures i snapped before I got a refund on the third model:
http://i.imgur.com/sB4YK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WejED.jpg
As you can see there is some purple vertical lines :(
The best way to see it is by going to Engadget.com and zoom on the first text as shown here:
http://i.imgur.com/WiHm3.png
benny1967
2011-10-18, 20:27
As you can see there is some purple vertical lines :(
Are these shots taken when the phone was in portrait mode or in landscape mode? I'm asking because this resembles the lines I'm seeing, only mine are horizontal - when the phone is in portrait mode, that is. Of course, turning it around to landscape makes it vertical lines just as in your image.
(It gets even worse when I open the keyboard. The high contrast between the dark keysboard and the bright background seems to create even more of these ghost lines.)
Lower brightness below 50 %. Clear all browser cookies and private data. Go to your browser. Flip phone to land scape mode. Notice the white static flicker lines on the screen?
Don't know if I should just deal with these faults since they are minor and that the Nokia N9 is my dreamphone or if I should go request yet another replacement phone.
So anyone else got these troubles?
Oh also as a bonus question does anyone know how to turn off auto contrast/saturation/brightness? Its pissing me off :s
The second issue you mention is most likely not a screen issue. If I understand you correctly, there is flickering white lines at the window frame when you rotate the phone. This is especially apparent on black background, e.g. viewing photo in Facebook. If this is what you see, then it's a QML issue and I filed a bug report a while ago.
The effects you see may be due to the N9, unfortunately, using a PenTile matrix : http://blog.gsmarena.com/nokia-n9-fwvga-amoled-uses-pentile-matrix-heres-the-proof/
Precisely what I'd been thinking all along too...
I didn't want to obfuscate the debate with the dirty word 'pentile', as there's so may misconceptions around it.
I can't find the other good articles ATM, but as I recall this one wasn't too bad.
http://www.tested.com/news/pentile-vs-real-stripe-amoled-displays-whats-different/1868/
Should only be an issue when you look real closely, & particularly for small text up-close.
*edit*
Actually I re-read the original post, & your 1st issue sounds nothing like what one would get thanks to a Pentile AMOLED.
Those picture you posted more recently look kinda symptomatic of Pentile AMOLED, but you reckon you only get that as per outlined in your "2nd issue".
That second issue is just utterly weird...
So you can only reproduce it if you empty the browser's cache, delete it's cookies, & lower brightness to 50%?
Can you reproduce it by just flipping the ph to landscape, & not doing those 3x other things?
@benny1967
Yes the phone was in Landscape mode when these pic were taken
@sony123
The white flicker thing came out wrong. What I ment was those purple lines and you can see on the photos in post #13. They are not always purple (sometimes just dark/beige) and their size and placement differs when you scroll around
@jalyst
Actually it can be reproduced all the time (best by going to white website), but the reason I said empty the browser's cache, delete it's cookies, & lower brightness to 50% was that for the tests of N9 users to have the same Basis.
Also the reason i deleted cookies was that if you visit a site like Reddit.com enough times after a browser wipe, then "Reddit" will appear as a tag when you boot up the browser. Then its clear to see the purple "Aura" around the text.
yeh my phone is exact same..
i first noticed it when i was in my room at night, all lights were off.. and i was restarting the phone.. and noticed that the 'black' background had random black dots everywhere (so clearly the black background is slightly lighter)
and then even when turning the device back on and you have the nokia thing with ripples, you could clearly see that there were colour issues, heaps of random black dots everywhere...
and if you carefully look and take notice, even during the day you can see the not fully blended colours in this start up screen
ALSO! yes, i have those purple lines as well...
iv never thought about taking it in for a replacement though... maybe i should..
but iv done my music, contacts, calender and everything already.. i really cant be bothered doing it again on a new device (which might still have the same problem....)
but if this REALLY isnt meant to be like that.. then.. i guess its good to take in
i checked with my friend who works for a phone carrier... and she said wait a few months, its still under warranty and get replacement, that way there is most likely a slightly updated device that will have a few other bug fixes
benny1967
2011-10-19, 09:50
It's not even the lines as such that are disturbing; it's that they become wider and narrower as text scrolls across the (landscape) display. It's a beautiful effect if you try to create it, but somewhat irritating when you just want to read a web page. (I refer to web pages as it needs a white background and black letters for this effect to become visible; the grey UI of the N9 does a good job in hiding it in most other applications.)
I will take the device to a Nokia care point next week and see what they have to say about it. I'd hate it if they'd come up with "this is normal on these displays". It's actually not acceptable on a €700-device.
I'm guessing all the owners not happy here...
Have never owned AMOLED/SAMOLED (not striped RBG) phones before?
This is what it's sounding most like.....
benny1967
2011-10-19, 12:56
I'm not familiar with display technologies... but: Is AMOLED/SAMOLED known for not being able to display a white background evenly over the whole display? It's purple on the upper left and becomes greenish towards the lower right of the display.
Also, is it common with AMOLED/SAMOLED displays that black text on white background draws lines across the whole display? Lines that change width as you move the text along these lines?
I don't know. The only AMOLED I own is the Nokia C7, and it has no such problem. The issue with the lines reminds me of my Nokia 770 a few days before its display died.
I'm not familiar with display technologies... but: Is AMOLED/SAMOLED known for not being able to display a white background evenly over the whole display? It's purple on the upper left and becomes greenish towards the lower right of the display.
Also, is it common with AMOLED/SAMOLED displays that black text on white background draws lines across the whole display? Lines that change width as you move the text along these lines?
The problem is, what you guys are describing keeps changing, it's not consistent at all.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_Matrix_Family#Controversy. Basically, if you assume you bought (854 × 480) 409920 each of red, green and blue pixels you are wrong.
benny1967
2011-10-19, 13:29
The problem is, what you guys are describing keeps changing, it's not consistent at all.
It doesn't change much on my screen.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile_Matrix_Family#Controversy. Basically, if you assume you bought (854 × 480) 409920 each of red, green and blue pixels you are wrong.
Each of RGB "sub-pixels" you mean.
Latest non-pentile (striped RGB) AMOLED sub-pixel config is:
RGB|RGB
RGB|RGB
Whereas the N9's is:
RG|BG
RG|BG
So 50% higher sub-pixel density, spread over a wider gamut of primary colours.
Having said that, at a pixel level the N9 still has 15% higher density than the SGSII for e.g.
And by all accounts it's brightness & contrast is better...
The way the panel's mounted so close to the glass, & the CBD tech also lend a hand.
Then again, marquee phones like the SGSII also implement similar things IIRC.
jakiman's comparo with the SGSII was pretty favorable overall
http://shootspeak.com/2011/10/08/screen-brightness-comparison-nokia-n9-vs-samsung-galaxy-s2/
Seen several other anecdotal accounts which suggest it's better overall too.
Except for in some scenarios where pentile can be more noticeable.
I'm still not 100% sure that pentile alone, explains what's going on with your screens.
One of you has an E7, & it definitely shouldn't look better overall.
benny1967
2011-10-19, 16:36
I tried to make a video of the display issues. My cam cannot really capture the fact that the display is more purple in the upper left and green in the lower right (when it should just be white), but it I could make a short clip that shows these "stripes" I'm talking about:
http://blip.tv/ossi1967/nokia-n9-display-issues-5657368
It's not as visible in the video as it is in reality, of course, but you may get the idea - better than from my words. :)
Note "shadow-like" stripes above and beneath the black letters; very visible around the year "2011" in the headline. Phone is in landscape, the lines are actually horizontal lines when you hold the phone in portrait mode.
The N8s that Nokia kindly give out (with out asking) when one of our N900s die suffer from a purple screen issue at low brightness levels.
http://i038.radikal.ru/1103/f2/6f0bcc68f9cc.jpg
Try going here (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/all_tests.php) to test your N9s
With an N8:
Gamma correction is all wrong, stripes blend at 1.2 not 2.2
Gradient test shows the pruple screen issue then goes to dark maroon before black.
Black level test the first square visible is #4, 4 - 14 are all amroon, 15 - 30 have a purple tinge, only squre 40 is grey.
White saturation test seemed OK.
Inversion (pixel walk) test compared to PC monitor the N8 looks rubbish.
Living in the UK means I don't have an N9 to do the tests with, but the N8 also has an amoled screen, I don't know if the screen is the same type as the N9.
I tried to make a video of the display issues. My cam cannot really capture the fact that the display is more purple in the upper left and green in the lower right (when it should just be white), but it I could make a short clip that shows these "stripes" I'm talking about:
Could you take high-res macro photos (at a level where individual subpixels are easily distinguishable)? From that it should be easy to determine whether what you see is due to the pentile matrix or not.
I'm also seeing the stripes. They show up in both portrait and landscape, but they are much easier to see in landscape. It looks like there is a "invisible line" that bleeds everything that's on the line through the screen (upwards when in landscape, in portrait it's to the right).
So there might be just white on the invisible line and there's no stripes on the screen. But when black text hits the line, the black bleeds through the whole screen.
Here's a oh, so wonderfull paint illustration... :D
http://bayimg.com/FaKLLaadj
It's really hard to get proper photos of it, because it's not that bad, and when trying to get photos you actually need to make them bit blurry or the lines disappear into the moire noise.
http://image.bayimg.com/fakllaadj.jpg
benny1967
2011-10-22, 18:06
Could you take high-res macro photos (at a level where individual subpixels are easily distinguishable)? From that it should be easy to determine whether what you see is due to the pentile matrix or not.
i'll try. don't think my cam will be able to do this.
otoh, what would such a high res image show? you might see that some areas are darker than others. we know that already. what we don't know is why the brightness (or even color) in this area are influenced by pixels that are somewhere else on the screen.
it's a bit like shadows and distortions you had with analog tv or vhs video tapes. :)
benny1967
2011-10-22, 18:13
Here's a oh, so wonderfull paint illustration... :D
http://bayimg.com/FaKLLaadj
It's really hard to get proper photos of it, because it's not that bad, and when trying to get photos you actually need to make them bit blurry or the lines disappear into the moire noise.
http://image.bayimg.com/fakllaadj.jpg
looks a lot like mine. did you see my video? does it look the same?
The purple line is more irritating than the black spots :/ The black spots are only visible on a gray background in dark surroundings.
The purple line can be seen in Benny1967's video and on these pics:
http://i.imgur.com/WejED.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sB4YK.jpg
Someone need to contact Nokia and hear their stance on this issue (if its just how the product is/software bug?/an issue they will fix etc.).
From the images it's clear this problem is not related to pixel "density" on pentile matrix, because these purple lines are several hundredth pixels long, far away from the black characters. Don't know technical details of AMOLED displays, but it looks like black pixel quickly turned into white one doesn't get proper color.
edworkscomputing
2011-10-22, 22:34
Try to update software or flash basic empty firmware and do update after... I thinks gonna be software prob... have few bugs we testing it on n950 :)
Cheekeong1985
2011-10-23, 07:47
I have seen the same purple stripes appearing on my SGS2 during scrolling except they are a lot thinner. (Refunded the phone due to serious side burn, yellow tinted and super low brightness issues).
Curious if these is a weakness of AMOLED screen or what...
I do notice on lowest brightness the screen looks yellowish?
ZerionSeven
2011-10-23, 15:16
My new N9 has these purple lines appearing on light backgrounds too. In this video I took, you can just barely see the lines, but they are much worse to the naked eye.
http://zerion7.pp.fi/n9/lines.mp4
I have a bad feeling this is a "feature" of the display technology used.
benny1967
2011-10-23, 16:50
... a bad feeling this is a "feature" of the display technology used.
this is what I want to find out. I don't think so, though. A friend of mine got his n9 recently, and when I asked him he said he doesn't see any such lines. Also they're never mentioned in any reviews.
ZerionSeven
2011-10-23, 19:21
Well, I'm taking mine back to the store to ask about this tomorrow. They'll probably just want to send it somewhere and that'll take weeks before I'll hear anything...
It's just pentile imo, dunno why people are so surprised, not owned ph's w/pentile screens before?
There's been no shortage of them on the market, past & present, many which are great ph's.
I'll see if I can get jakiman to confirm the same "issue" on his phone....
Cheekeong1985
2011-10-24, 05:44
I thought i was spared from the grey background and dark spot issues. when i tried again last night i finally saw it! There is quite a patch right in the middle of the screen!
raghu_mark
2011-10-24, 06:16
I think, this is a common characteristic of the display. You can see the same behavior in engadget's video review as well.
shamrock
2011-10-24, 06:33
So I got this to on my N9 64GB (verticale lines) but ONLY when i zoom in 100% and that`s NOT a dealbreaker for me...
Cheekeong1985
2011-10-24, 06:47
I am fine with the vertical lines too, just the dark patch is annoying when at night you are surfing net with the lights off.
I will go down to the nokia shop and get a check and see if the replacement set is fine or not.
ZerionSeven
2011-10-25, 13:16
I visited a Nokia repair shop today to ask about the purple lines, but they didn't know outright if it was normal. However they also had not received any spare parts of maintenance instructions for the N9 yet, so I'll have to go again next week.
blackbox
2011-10-26, 18:47
I have noticed those lines too on my N9. Also, I have noticed that there is a purple tint on the left side of the screen but that it is only noticeable in darker environments. It is my understanding, after digging through the web that these issues will be fixed when PR 1.1 is released. According to shootspeak's blog (http://shootspeak.com/2011/10/08/screen-brightness-comparison-nokia-n9-vs-samsung-galaxy-s2/), which refers to Kontorri's comments, this was intentional. I wish this is true and does get fixed in the next firmware update as this is quite a nuisance. At least to tone it down a bit would be desirable!
Yeah i saw that update in jakiman's blog, but it was in reference to when you have it at full brightness.
Not sure if the users in this thread have been getting the purple tint at full brightness only.
But hopefully you're right, and it does resolve at least part of their 'issues'...
benny1967
2011-10-26, 20:43
I do see a purple tint on the left side - but always, not only at max brightness.
Also, the disturbung lines I'm talking about (and that you can see on my video) seem to be more visible when the screen is darker - and less when it's set to max brightness.
blackbox
2011-10-26, 20:50
Yeah i saw that update in jakiman's blog, but it was in reference to when you have it at full brightness.
Not sure if the users in this thread have been getting the purple tint at full brightness only.
But hopefully you're right, and it does resolve at least part of their 'issues'...
I was a little confused as well with jakiman's blog on the color saturation issue. The way i understood it was that, the purple/pink over-saturation is there to adhere to situations when the n9 would be in very bright environments and as such, this over-saturation is intentional. Therefore, my assumption was that, because of this, when the n9 is in darker environments, this purple or pink over-saturation is still there.
Apparently, in the PR 1.1 release of the N9, Konttorri claims the following:
"Color management is less nervous than before (neutral sRGB space color palette is now used always, except in clearly outdoor situations, when oversaturation is applied to adjust how eye desaturates content in brightness)."
Let's hope that this is what I and others in this forum have been experiencing and gets fixed! :)
Lol!!, I'm still a bit confused as I also could be interpreting my issues completely different than those voiced by Konttorri.
blackbox
2011-10-26, 20:51
I do see a purple tint on the left side - but always, not only at max brightness.
Also, the disturbung lines I'm talking about (and that you can see on my video) seem to be more visible when the screen is darker - and less when it's set to max brightness.
Yes, Benny, this is exactly what I am experiencing too, and your video definitely demonstrates that!
I do see a purple tint on the left side - but always, not only at max brightness.
Also, the disturbung lines I'm talking about (and that you can see on my video) seem to be more visible when the screen is darker - and less when it's set to max brightness.
I asked jakiman to add his thoughts a while back but he missed my post. will try again now...
benny1967
2011-10-26, 21:31
Here's a oh, so wonderfull paint illustration... :D
http://bayimg.com/FaKLLaadj
It's really hard to get proper photos of it, because it's not that bad, and when trying to get photos you actually need to make them bit blurry or the lines disappear into the moire noise.
http://image.bayimg.com/fakllaadj.jpg
DeeGee was so kind to also post this in Konttori's blog; Konttori's comment was:
Oh, crap, now I looked at you photo. No, that should not be happening to my knowledge. I'll take a look tomorrow on your example case on both displays we are shipping with (we had plenty of versions of the displays during the making on N9, some times to the better, some times to the worse)
blackbox
2011-10-26, 21:38
DeeGee was so kind to also post this in Konttori's blog; Konttori's comment was:
I hope this is just something simple to fix and not a screen defect! would hate to return the n9 now. :eek:
Okay, here are my observations so far on my "normal" N9:
1. Pink/Green white edges
Yes, there are very thin line of pink/purple/green tint to left and/or right side on white objects or writing. Sometimes more visible, sometimes less. This is due to having pentile matrix and it's normal. (e.g. white text in black background or black text in white background won't have clean sharp edges but will have a tint of green/ping/purple.)
** The same symptom exists on my Omnia 7 which has a pentile matrix SAMOLED. This is something that cannot be avoided I believe.
2. Bleeding Purple Lines
I also do see faint purple bleeding across the white parts of the screen beginning from the black text when scrolling through web pages etc. (especially when scrolling horizontally, the purple lines dance around and change in thickness)
** This symptom does not exist on my Omnia 7 even at the lowest brightness setting. I tried VERY hard to try and see it but couldn't.
So yeah, my N9 is also affected by Symptom #2. It would be interesting to see what Konttori comes back with or what Nokia says about this. I can see how this can get annoying to some people. Now you got me seeing it also. =P
ZerionSeven
2011-10-27, 09:53
I put up a page here (http://zerion7.pp.fi/n9/) to show the problem at the repair shop. If you put your device into landscape and zoom so the chessboard pattern fills the bottom of the screen and the top is white, the lines are very noticeable.
Since I first noticed the lines, I've now started noticing them everywhere, where there's something dark next to something light. Even just opening the vkbd in apps with white background in landscape view I see the lines fill the area above the vkbd.
Okay, here are my observations so far on my "normal" N9:
1. Pink/Green white edges
Yes, there are very thin line of pink/purple/green tint to left and/or right side on white objects or writing. Sometimes more visible, sometimes less. This is due to having pentile matrix and it's normal. (e.g. white text in black background or black text in white background won't have clean sharp edges but will have a tint of green/ping/purple.)
** The same symptom exists on my Omnia 7 which has a pentile matrix SAMOLED. This is something that cannot be avoided I believe.
2. Bleeding Purple Lines
I also do see faint purple bleeding across the white parts of the screen beginning from the black text when scrolling through web pages etc. (especially when scrolling horizontally, the purple lines dance around and change in thickness)
** This symptom does not exist on my Omnia 7 even at the lowest brightness setting. I tried VERY hard to try and see it but couldn't.
So yeah, my N9 is also affected by Symptom #2. It would be interesting to see what Konttori comes back with or what Nokia says about this. I can see how this can get annoying to some people. Now you got me seeing it also. =P
Thanks for the input jakiman....
I hope issue 2 really just a fw/sw thing as konttori seems to think.
It would be disappointing of it's just a limitation of the panel used.
konttori
2011-10-27, 19:01
I put up a page here (http://zerion7.pp.fi/n9/) to show the problem at the repair shop. If you put your device into landscape and zoom so the chessboard pattern fills the bottom of the screen and the top is white, the lines are very noticeable.
Since I first noticed the lines, I've now started noticing them everywhere, where there's something dark next to something light. Even just opening the vkbd in apps with white background in landscape view I see the lines fill the area above the vkbd.
Cool link, thanks. I checked it with Samsung display and the effect can indeed be seen. I'll check with LG tomorrow (don't have one at home) to see if there is a difference. But I fear this is just simply an issue in OLED displays of this generation.
Oled is still in it's baby steps and this kind of issues are not totally surprising.
Thanks konttori, please note jakiman's post #54 (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1114300#post1114300)....
AFAIK despite being marketed as an AMOLED CBD, the N9 is a SAMOLED (pentile) + Nokia twks.
And yet jakiman's Samsung Omnia 7 (SAMOLED pentile) doesn't have the 2nd issue listed in his post?
benny1967
2011-10-27, 20:45
Also, some N9s do have this issue while others don't...
Soo... Any way to differentiate N9's manufactured with LG display vs Samsung ones? :D
(if the LG ones don't have this pink bleeding)
blackbox
2011-10-28, 02:51
Also, some N9s do have this issue while others don't...
Hey Benny, are you sure that others are not experiencing this or perhaps not everyone has the strong eyes to notice these issues like we do? ;)
The screen of my phone is slightly affected by the issue 2 but this never appends in normal situation, I discovered it by displaying the image given by ZerionSeven and this appears only when zooming a lot (i.e. when the squares are very big).
In normal situations the screen is simply... gorgeous! :)
ZerionSeven
2011-10-28, 09:00
If this indeed is normal, perhaps the intensity varies from screen to screen? On my device, it's easily noticeable during normal use and is quite annoying.
The screen of my phone is slightly affected by the issue 2 but this never appends in normal situation, I discovered it by displaying the image given by ZerionSeven and this appears only when zooming a lot (i.e. when the squares are very big).
In normal situations the screen is simply... gorgeous! :)
I would agree with Jordi (at least with my experience on my own N9).
Individual eyesight might be an issue as well (at least mine is not as sharp as it used be). Need to really zoom in on the ZerionSeven image to see the "ghost"-lines.
I have the same problem and it's noticeable in everyday use, but especially apparent using the checkerboard image provided ZerionSeven.
I took the phone back to the store I bought it from and the people there were able to reproduce the problem on two other phones. The person I talked to contacted Nokia about this and received a reply which essentially said that this is a feature of the panel used in the phone.
After that I also called Nokia Care where the customer service rep couldn't reproduce the problem on his own device. He told me to take it to a local repair shop where they basically said the same thing that this is a feature of the panel used in the phone and they might replace it if it gets worse on my device.
ste-phan
2011-10-28, 12:45
The screen of my N9:
- a green color cast under angle (serious) http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4730
-an overall colour cast like on N8 (Amoled greatness)
-extremely bad rendering of small details like small fonts and graphics in built in web browser
Compared to N900 on same zoom level the N9 Browser / Screen combination is a joke.
I feel like watching an old CRT TV from too close.
Very disappointed about this because I mainly use the device to surf.
I am looking forward to see how other N9's co compare and to sort out if my copy is qualified to be called defective.
Some user experiences with Nokia care seem to confirm that the above is indeed within normal limits.
I fear for eye damage as I like to read news for hours a day.
It sounds almost as predicted: "I should have done more research" ;)
Damn iPhone blogreviewers and Amoled junks.
Can you please try to write a bit more clearly?
In all of your posts, it's almost impossible to understand the point/s you're making.
ste-phan
2011-10-28, 13:10
Can you please try to write a bit more clearly?
In all of your posts, it's almost impossible to understand the point/s you're making.
Seen 2 hrs have elapsed between mine and the post before I will assume your are addressing to me.
I hope you can bring up the effort to catch the main idea.
I have to write quickly and briefly through the working hours right now.
If you like to discuss or exchange information about deviating conduct of N9 screens, pls contact me via PM and with your Skype address.
blackbox
2011-10-28, 14:45
I think we should wait and see what PR 1.1 brings to the table.
Although it is very annoying to notice these things and more annoying that I have an obsession over these things once I notice them. I believe that if this firmware upgrade, at the very least, tones it down a bit, that would be great. To be honest, during the day, or in brighter conditions, I don't really notice these things and its a joy to use, but when I get back home during the evening or when I am in darker environments, it does start to show, and then I start to become aggravated! :mad:
I would hate to know that I have bought something very expensive and have to be dealing with these issues.
rasteroid
2011-10-28, 15:37
i have an 059L7G7, but don't know the screen manufacturer. its set for 20% brightness
reproduction scenario:
1) browse to apache "It works!" welcome page
2) enlarge
3) switch to landscape mode
its really that simple. the screen looks like it has purple pinstripes - see attachment - zoom 200% - look at right side - moire not related.
bottom line, i can live with it.
benny1967
2011-10-28, 17:35
while we're at it: does anyone know if the color depth of the n9 is below average? (compared to the n900 or the c7)
the reason why i'm asking is that what should be soft gradients is diplayed as areas of different brightness. it's the effect i get on blue sky pictures in image editors when i reduce colors too much.
you can see the effect in the background of the gPodder UI. (at least i see it there.) what's probably meant to be a nice, soft touch of lighter grey at the top of the background turns out as a few distinct layers of grey on top of each other. it gets even worse in the minimized gpodder preview.
another drawback of the display technology i payed €700,- for?
benny1967
2011-10-28, 17:39
Hey Benny, are you sure that others are not experiencing this or perhaps not everyone has the strong eyes to notice these issues like we do? ;)
i'll be able to check this next week with a device that's supposed to be ok.
but the guy who owns it watched my video, saw he stripes there and said he couldn't reproduce it on his n9.
blackbox
2011-10-28, 20:49
i'll be able to check this next week with a device that's supposed to be ok.
but the guy who owns it watched my video, saw he stripes there and said he couldn't reproduce it on his n9.
Great! I will definitely follow your analysis as it is more difficult for me in the US to find anybody else who is carrying this device. Thanks! :D
@benny
Thanks for taking this comparative analysis on for all of us, tis appreciated.
I'm just wondering....
If you hadn't had to pay the exorbitant $ you did, because it wasn't officially rolled-out in the UK.
Would you have been so picky about the display & other aspects?
I mean is the display actually worse overall than the N8, or previous Nokia ph's you've owned?
Every piece of anecdotal/comparative info I've read suggests it shouldn't be, just curious.
ste-phan
2011-10-29, 04:24
i'll be able to check this next week with a device that's supposed to be ok.
but the guy who owns it watched my video, saw he stripes there and said he couldn't reproduce it on his n9.
Benny, thank you for letting us know your comparative findings soon.
It is very difficult to get objective information about this.
Banding on white surfaces, colour casts, ghosting, very visible raster, slow refresh (after burning), over-contrasting.
Summarized, the screen quality of my copy imo is terrible.
My friend with iPhone 3Gs doesn't find it that bad.
He bragged "my eyesight is good enough to read that small text"
My eyesight is also good enough to read that small text and -being spoiled- see that the N9 produces a blurry mess where the N900 renders it crisp and clear at virtually equal zoom levels.
Anyone with an N900 that experiences the same?
Compared to all other phones I have access to, my N9 is the loser by far.
It does however have very strong brightness and contrast. The kiddies' game phone features are there, but I purchased this device to use as a web tablet / phone not to play NFS.
I feel like the world has been reversed on me: now I observe myself whining about the Amoled screen like some people were whining "resistive, Nokia, Seriously? in 2009"? :o
Please somebody have mercy, "loose" your dust catching N950 on me.
That one is said to have a normal TFT screen. :p
Meanwhile I am also curious to hear if somebody with deeper knowledge about this OS could point out if we have easy access to the colour management profile, to see if any improvement can be made in software?
Anyone with an N900 that experiences the same?
I do, I'll be able to see whether it's as horrific as you describe within 4wks hopefully.
I'm waiting till PR1.1 or white N9, whichever is first...
Oddly enough there's been many N9 owners, who are also owners of other top-end make/models.
Whom haven't found it as bad as you so consistently do, in every aspect, funny that.
benny1967
2011-10-29, 10:50
If you hadn't had to pay the exorbitant $ you did, because it wasn't officially rolled-out in the UK.
Would you have been so picky about the display & other aspects?
I mean is the display actually worse overall than the N8, or previous Nokia ph's you've owned?
Every piece of anecdotal/comparative info I've read suggests it shouldn't be, just curious.
It's a lot worse than any other phone I had so far. There are minimal distortions on a C7, for example, but you'd have to concentrate very hard in order to spot them... and you never notice them when you concentrate on what you actually do with your phone.
On the N9, the problems are so evident that they distract you from reading the text. It just feels broken.
Would it be some €200,- phone, I'd have returned it the first day and got myself another model. But the N9 is special for its operating system and that's why I bought it in the first place. I just cannot believe that they would invest so much effort in the devices overall style and then say that a broken display is just normal and it's OK that it cannot display black on white.
benny1967
2011-10-29, 11:00
The color depth issue I posted earlier:
Here's an image taken from a news site and a second, edited version that resembles the image as shown on the N9. Again, I checked on a C7; there, the image looks just like it does on the desktop (above).
It's a lot worse than any other phone I had so far. There are minimal distortions on a C7, for example, but you'd have to concentrate very hard in order to spot them... and you never notice them when you concentrate on what you actually do with your phone.
On the N9, the problems are so evident that they distract you from reading the text. It just feels broken.
Would it be some €200,- phone, I'd have returned it the first day and got myself another model. But the N9 is special for its operating system and that's why I bought it in the first place. I just cannot believe that they would invest so much effort in the devices overall style and then say that a broken display is just normal and it's OK that it cannot display black on white.
I agree totally, I've owned quite a few phones and the display on this is among the worst ever. Certainly the worst of any touchscreen smartphone I've owned, especially when compared to how much it costs and how new the model is.
Not that there aren't good things to say about it for example at a high brightness level the blacks are very deep and the colors are great.
If I'd bought a 200 euro phone I would be pretty fine with this but for a 700 euro device this kind of performance is unacceptable.
The color depth issue I posted earlier:
Here's an image taken from a news site and a second, edited version that resembles the image as shown on the N9. Again, I checked on a C7; there, the image looks just like it does on the desktop (above).
I can see some very subtle differences... And my eyesight is fine...
That certainly wouldn't annoy me, are you a graphic designer/artist or something?
I can see how some of the other things you've described could be annoying though.
ZerionSeven
2011-10-29, 14:50
The color depth issue I posted earlier:
Here's an image taken from a news site and a second, edited version that resembles the image as shown on the N9. Again, I checked on a C7; there, the image looks just like it does on the desktop (above).
The SystemInfo app from Ovi Store says the screen is running at 16 bit depth, which would explain this, however the specs on Nokia's site claim the screen does 16.7 million colors (24 bit)...
^Interesting find...
Maybe konttori can tell us how to check w/o relying on an "app".
ZerionSeven
2011-10-29, 15:13
^Interesting find...
Maybe konttori can tell us how to check w/o relying on an "app".
Installing x11-utils with apt-get and running xdpyinfo also tells me:
depth of root window: 16 planes
However it also lists 24 and 32 bit depths as supported, so it would probably be possible to run the screen at a higher depth (at the expense of performance, I'd imagine).
So the purple lines are because of it being 16 bit? If so this can be solved via software update right?
ZerionSeven
2011-10-30, 03:28
So the purple lines are because of it being 16 bit? If so this can be solved via software update right?
I don't see how the screen running at 16 bit depth could cause the purple lines, but it does cause other artifacts such as the color banding you can see in the background gradient in benny's example.
smegheadz
2011-10-30, 04:17
check it with different brightness levels. with and without charger cable in. and also different power save settings. it may be a combination of brightness levels and powersave options people have make it more visible for some and less for others.
I've got the purple lines on my display as well, but they don't really bother me. It appears to only show up on a bright/white background with a dark foreground (text, image, etc). Looks like some sort of shadow. Funny thing is I never really noticed this, so I didn't know to look for it until I saw this thread.
What I don't like is the screen's 16 bits per pixel. The gradients (e.g. the Nokia one when you power up the phone) look washed out. Hope this can be sorted out in PR 1.1.
benny1967
2011-10-30, 13:45
check it with different brightness levels. with and without charger cable in. and also different power save settings. it may be a combination of brightness levels and powersave options people have make it more visible for some and less for others.
It depends a lot on the brightness settings. High brightness means it's less visible. Low brightness makes it more visible. Low brightness in low light conditions = unbearable. (My classic: sitting in a cab at night, holding the device in landscape. Scrolling through text then is a pain.)
I hardly ever use the device in bright daylight where high brightness settings are useful. My N9 sleeps mostly during the day and lives at night.
I didn't find any difference between low brightness with or without powersaving enabled. Also, I don't notice a difference when the charger's plugged in.
smegheadz
2011-10-30, 14:24
It depends a lot on the brightness settings. High brightness means it's less visible. Low brightness makes it more visible. Low brightness in low light conditions = unbearable. (My classic: sitting in a cab at night, holding the device in landscape. Scrolling through text then is a pain.)
I hardly ever use the device in bright daylight where high brightness settings are useful. My N9 sleeps mostly during the day and lives at night.
I didn't find any difference between low brightness with or without powersaving enabled. Also, I don't notice a difference when the charger's plugged in.
i thought it might have depended on brightness setting as to how visible it is. there's lots of screens with issues depending on brightness levels etc. and ambient light sensors can be an annoyance.
The dark spots on black background are there but so there were on my old i8910 so I think it's a AMOLED thing. They are really only noticeable on pitch dark room with pitch black screen so I won't bother.
blackbox
2011-10-30, 17:49
The dark spots on black background are there but so there were on my old i8910 so I think it's a AMOLED thing. They are really only noticeable on pitch dark room with pitch black screen so I won't bother.
On the n9 that i own, i didnt notice the black spots even in those conditions which you describe. the only thing that i do notice is the reddish/purple tint/bleeding on the left side of the screen ,as Benny has stated, is really visible and frustrating when using it in darker environments. it is barely visible in lighter conditions. Somehow, I think that this can be tweaked a bit on the software side with the color pallettes so that it isnt that noticeable, contrary to what the limitations of the amoled display. At this point anything that can be done to make it fix it just a bit would be great welcome to many n9 users, because this device is not cheap!
smegheadz
2011-10-30, 23:55
try messing with the ambient light sensor while in a light area so it thinks it's dark and visa versa. if there's no change to the bleeding/tint then it it's not related. i'd say the purple tint is due to the way the software is configured. it's probably down to more visibility the purple is used in daylight but needs to be toned down more for darkness.
jejansso
2011-10-31, 13:22
I'm having the same problems with purple vertical lines during the landscape browsing of white webpages. I'm really annoyed with this and I'm already ready to get rid of this device. These kind of problems with a 700 euros device is unbearable...
Yesterday I checked the sample webpage posted in this forum earlier with my girlfriend's SGS II and there were no visible purple lines. Based on this one (unrepresentative) test I would assume that the problem is not solely because of Amoled technology. This suggests that the problem is caused by pentile matrix technology or software and only the last one of these can be fixed afterwards.
Now I'm really pissed about the fact that I gave Nokia a one more chance!
ZerionSeven
2011-10-31, 21:24
I just tried and simply creating the file /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/screen.conf with the contents:
Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
DefaultDepth 24
EndSection
and rebooting makes the screen run at 24-bit color depth, however this also causes various problems. Things run noticeably slower, trying to switch to portrait seems to cause apps to freeze, the bar at the top doesn't display at all (although the menu when tapping it does appear), the vkbd randomly doesn't work and vsync seems to not quite work to mention a few I noticed with quick testing. No effect on the purple bleeding, but gradients do look much nicer.
Booting back to 16-bit depth, I just realized the device did not ask me for my lock code, when I booted at 24-bit depth...
benny1967
2011-10-31, 21:39
I also noticed that those issues I think are color depth related don't show up everywhere. The example picture I posted earlier, for example, shows perfectly well in the image gallery. It just feels broken in the browser. (Plus, of course, application UIs, especially dark backgrounds, have this problem.) Strange.
benny1967
2011-10-31, 21:41
try messing with the ambient light sensor
Well... I tried to but... where the hell is this thing? :)
It seems to work, because when I switch off the lights, the screen becomes a little darker (and the lines even more visible). But I don't find any spot I could cover when the lights are on to make the N9 think it's alone in the dark with me. :)
ZerionSeven
2011-10-31, 21:52
I also noticed that those issues I think are color depth related don't show up everywhere. The example picture I posted earlier, for example, shows perfectly well in the image gallery. It just feels broken in the browser. (Plus, of course, application UIs, especially dark backgrounds, have this problem.) Strange.
It's possible the gallery does dithering when displaying images, but the browser quite obviously doesn't. The screen DPI is high enough, that it would probably be indistinguishable. I'd think graphics used in apps would be prepared dithered for the screen (although considering Nokia's specs claim 24-bit color, not all developers might be aware of needing to do this).
vitaminj
2011-10-31, 22:16
Just popping in to +1 on this thread.
I've got easily noticeable streaking in the browser (esp. its startup screen), where a vertical line of pixels (about 1/3 from the left) form the basis of the streaks (others have explained better!). So scrolling vertically whilst in portrait might not be so dodgy-looking as the streaks stay in the same place relative to the text, but scrolling vertically in landscape is like having a bad amiga demoscene effect going on in the background.
16bpp has always been the Maemo standard. AFAIK LCDs cannot display 24bpp anyway, but more like 18bpp. I don't know whether this is true for AMOLED, though.
On my N9 I can see very weak lines on bright white areas, but only if I look closely. Apart from that the display is fine.
Of course it has this green pentile tint when watching it from angles where on regular LCDs colors would totally get washed out.
IMHO if you're using the device normally, the display looks gorgeous. But if you look close, it becomes ugly.
ZerionSeven
2011-10-31, 22:49
I did some testing with the browser, and there's definitely something more than just the color depth causing artifacts in images. However, when I tried with the screen at 24-bit depth, the images did definitely look better, so it has something to do with it.
Milhouse
2011-11-01, 00:44
So the streaking is only in the browser, what about while reading emails?
If it *is* a screen issue, it should affect all applications more or less equally; if the streaking is only visible in the browser, maybe there's something weird going on in the Webkit render engine that could be looked at in time for PR1.2.
I'm not a hardware engineer, but I see little reason why there should be streaking where the text is no longer visible - if the screen should be displaying all white pixels, then all white is what should be displayed not some remnant of a previous image. This all points to software/driver problems IMHO.
ZerionSeven
2011-11-01, 00:52
Actually, ignore my previous message, I realized the way I was making my test images was wrong and it is infact just the color depth, I made a simple test page here (http://zerion7.pp.fi/n9/2/), where you can see the problem if you look at it with both a desktop browser and the N9's browser.
And this problem is completely unrelated to the purple lines you get above dark patches on white background.
Edit:
Just noticed that Opera Mobile (from here (http://my-meego.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=59&faq=9)) does dither higher depth images before displaying them.
ste-phan
2011-11-01, 01:10
imo there are 2 main issues with MY N9 screen:
1) the colour mangement is completely off charts.
This is the only phone I have that displays its own shot pictures absurdely oversaturated and over contrasted.
I have compared a same picture shot with the N9 on N900, Pre3, N8 and iPone 3GS, finally on my high gammut , calibrated Dell monitor.
Conclusion: the N9 is by far the worst of the bunch when displaying pictures in the gallery or in the webbrowser.
The N9 is obviously trying to hide something by not allowing full zoom of pictures in the gallery. So doing one can't inspect the subtile gradients up close.
On the N900 one can zoom in full size on pictures.
To get the best out of this screen and phone for everybody, somebody needs to write a patch that introduces the possibility to adjust the RGB values next to colour dept and brightness.
Many of the uglyness may disappear when we have adjusted our screens to normal contrast, brightness and colour values.
2) the sharpness of text: I am afraid most people with good eyesight that were expecting this phone to function as an internet tablet may notice the serious downgrade.
The only thing I see sharp when looking at small text-and I mean really small text that always was readable on the N900- is this damn pentile screen's raster.
a Samsung Galaxy tab with a much lower ppi figure but a quieter TFT screen produces almost the same sharpness on small text, but of course has a much larger screen.
This N9 display quality may be improved by patching but it will never be worthy of the OS when the purpose is using it as an internet tablet for replacing the N900.
For the time being the display only excells in displaying this grid of colourfull app icons.
N9 is really the phone edition of the Harmattan running hardware and even on the wp7 forums there is now anxious speculation going on as will the 800 have the same backward screen technology .
Edit: to confirm with OP, I also am able to observe those black spots on gray (for example in the empty task manager window) but consider this minor issue at this stage
dymaxion
2011-11-01, 05:44
while we're at it: does anyone know if the color depth of the n9 is below average? (compared to the n900 or the c7)
the reason why i'm asking is that what should be soft gradients is diplayed as areas of different brightness. it's the effect i get on blue sky pictures in image editors when i reduce colors too much.
you can see the effect in the background of the gPodder UI.
I believe it is 16bit depth, I had the same concern when I launched gPodder, notices the ugly bands of different greys instead of smooth gradient. Hope my screen isn't defective!
I also have been getting red dotted left edges on white/grey text against black background. Makes text hazy, is this pentile doing its evil?
ste-phan
2011-11-01, 06:38
I also have been getting red dotted left edges on white/grey text against black background. Makes text hazy, is this pentile doing its evil?
Afraid so, take www.dpreview.com for example.
The screen raster is clearly visible inside the white characters that have indeed a coloured edge.
For me the supposed white text is yellowish.
Somehow this reminds me of CRT monitors with resolution set too high. Or my Panasonic plasma up close. The difference being that I would not read the said screens from close distance.
Clear blackTM, hazy all the rest. Welcome to the museum of obsolete hyped screen technology.
The same text on dpreview.com is rendered close to perfect on the N900 display.
dymaxion
2011-11-01, 07:06
Afraid so, take www.dpreview.com for example.
The same text on dpreview.com is rendered close to perfect on the N900 display.
Darn... annoying... I was hoping my phone had a faulty screen... I remember how text was so crisp on my N900 (until I left it on a train!).
Love the N9 viewing angles and vivid colours & deep blacks with that display "glued" onto the glass. It sort-of makes up for the hazy text, but is frustrating nevertheless.
I can literally see the red sub-pixels around all the white text, and since I read web/text a lot on the phone rather than just movies / games, it's actually distracting. (that blue tint on tilt is annoying too, but I was aware of this when I read the reviews so expected it)
Okay first post here, but I gotta find out wether or not I am alone on this one.
You're not alone.
I got my N9 on Saturday and noticed the pink fringing on white text and the left edge of a white panel straight away. Sadly that seems to be an issue with pentile AMOLED displays just not being as good as RGB panels. It reminds me of Windows text anti-aliasing. I stare at Mac screens most of the time with occasional switches to Windows so I notice these things. I would hope it could be tweaked though. MacOS on the same panels doesn't have the same issues Windows has so it can be alleviated with software obviously. To me it just looks like the sub-pixel rendering algorithms need a bit of a tweak.
The black spots on dark grey screens I noticed last night watching a video in a dark room and then discovered this thread. I've got a black line about 4mm wide stretching about 2/3rds of the way over the screen about where the volume buttons are. I've got two parallel lines about 4mm wide and 2cm long in the middle of the screen toward the right edge. I've got another blotch near the bottom left of the screen. I only notice these when displaying something dark grey in the dark. I was playing Tron (the movie) on it so you can imagine how distracting dark splotches are on a mostly dark grey movie. (As an aside, the movie player skips frames all over the place on movie files that worked great on my C7 - hope they can get a better performing codec sorted)
The black spot issue is obviously a manufacturing issue and it's very, very disappointing. I don't notice it 99% of the time but I know it's there. When it's such a beautiful and expensive slab of technology, little flaws are not acceptable. If I wasn't enjoying the phone so much otherwise I'd send it back. I figure I'd give it a while to see if Nokia responds to this issue and fixes it in a later production run. Seems pointless getting a replacement just now if it comes from the same production run. Surely they're going to have the same issues with the Lumia 800 which shares a similar screen?
The automatic screen brightness adjustment also seems to have a life of it's own. I hope that's fixable in software also because it does ramp up and down a bit too aggressively.
Love the phone and OS but I'm somewhat disappointed by the screen.
benny1967
2011-11-01, 13:55
So the streaking is only in the browser, what about while reading emails?
If it *is* a screen issue, it should affect all applications more or less equally; if the streaking is only visible in the browser, maybe there's something weird going on in the Webkit render engine that could be looked at in time for PR1.2.
I'm not a hardware engineer, but I see little reason why there should be streaking where the text is no longer visible - if the screen should be displaying all white pixels, then all white is what should be displayed not some remnant of a previous image. This all points to software/driver problems IMHO.
the issue is visible in the browser mostly because it happens with white background. the background in the mail application isn't white. it's a dirty grey. (same with the RSS reader, for example.)
as soon as theres white backgrounds and something black on them, troubles start. it needn't be the browser. it can be an image in the gallery or an applidation that displays black text on whicte bg.
Back to the physical screen itself - can someone please explain to me how Gorilla screens work. I have started noticing new scratches every single day on my delicious N9. They wipe off with a rub but reappear later. I keep the phone away from all metal and sharp objects. It even has its own pocket in my coat.
If I knew nothing about screen technology i would assume Gorilla is a step down from old school screens. It took a year for my N900 to have any visible scratches yet its not been a week and my N9 is starting to look like a chopping board.
Gorilla glass is pretty much unscratchable. You can rub a key across it and it shouldn't scratch so putting it in a pocket with coins or keys shouldn't cause any damage. I've had a C7 for over a year and that's almost like new. The only scratches are where I've dropped it onto a wall.
Gorilla glass is pretty much unscratchable. You can rub a key across it and it shouldn't scratch so putting it in a pocket with coins or keys shouldn't cause any damage. I've had a C7 for over a year and that's almost like new. The only scratches are where I've dropped it onto a wall.
I suppose i should have said I was being a little rhetorical. I could read what you said in nokia marketing materials. My point is that Gorilla glass being that good is simply not true. I have a phone with scratches all over to prove it (and no drops to date).
I suppose i should have said I was being a little rhetorical. I could read what you said in nokia marketing materials. My point is that Gorilla glass being that good is simply not true. I have a phone with scratches all over to prove it (and no drops to date).
I've had an N9 for 4 days so too early to tell but it's got no scratches yet. As I said, I've had a C7 for over a year and that's been great. The E71 I had before that scratched quite easily though not as easily as the N900 which had lots of stylus related matte areas on the screen.
In my experience, Gorilla Glass on the C7 has been the most hard wearing of them all and the N900 the worst. That's my experience, not Nokia's marketing brochure.
I've had worse - Sony Ericsson P910i screen was awful for scratching yet their T610 was bombproof.
benny1967
2011-11-01, 17:13
Back to the physical screen itself.
Could you please use this thread (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79192) for that topic instead of this one? Thx.
Fender77
2011-11-01, 22:39
You're not alone.
I got my N9 on Saturday and noticed the pink fringing on white text and the left edge of a white panel straight away. Sadly that seems to be an issue with pentile AMOLED displays just not being as good as RGB panels. It reminds me of Windows text anti-aliasing. I stare at Mac screens most of the time with occasional switches to Windows so I notice these things. I would hope it could be tweaked though. MacOS on the same panels doesn't have the same issues Windows has so it can be alleviated with software obviously. To me it just looks like the sub-pixel rendering algorithms need a bit of a tweak.
The black spots on dark grey screens I noticed last night watching a video in a dark room and then discovered this thread. I've got a black line about 4mm wide stretching about 2/3rds of the way over the screen about where the volume buttons are. I've got two parallel lines about 4mm wide and 2cm long in the middle of the screen toward the right edge. I've got another blotch near the bottom left of the screen. I only notice these when displaying something dark grey in the dark. I was playing Tron (the movie) on it so you can imagine how distracting dark splotches are on a mostly dark grey movie. (As an aside, the movie player skips frames all over the place on movie files that worked great on my C7 - hope they can get a better performing codec sorted)
The black spot issue is obviously a manufacturing issue and it's very, very disappointing. I don't notice it 99% of the time but I know it's there. When it's such a beautiful and expensive slab of technology, little flaws are not acceptable. If I wasn't enjoying the phone so much otherwise I'd send it back. I figure I'd give it a while to see if Nokia responds to this issue and fixes it in a later production run. Seems pointless getting a replacement just now if it comes from the same production run. Surely they're going to have the same issues with the Lumia 800 which shares a similar screen?
The automatic screen brightness adjustment also seems to have a life of it's own. I hope that's fixable in software also because it does ramp up and down a bit too aggressively.
Love the phone and OS but I'm somewhat disappointed by the screen.
I have the exact same spots and dimensions as you on mine N9!
I have the exact same spots and dimensions as you on mine N9!
Ooh, that's interesting.
I've just had a quick look at the service manual to see if black spots match up with internal components underneath the screen. I was thinking it might be heat or pressure related. However, it doesn't look like that is the case.
I'll see how it goes for a while.
For those of you who didn't check the Kontrori "Q&A" here is an interesting bit:
Q: Konttori, is it a "feature" of the N9's amoled screen that black text on white (for example web pages) cause "bleeding" of very slightly pink lines from the text? Or is this some kind of manufacturing (or very weird software) fault?
And the weird thing is that all text on screen doesn't cause this. It is like there is a invisible line, that when it intersects with black causes the bleeding. Here's a ms paint illustration :)
http://bayimg.com/FaKLLaadj
A: N9 has Pentile OLED screen. You have no idea how much time I've spent taking macro photos of the sub pixel rendering artefacts. We spent a lot of time working with the display manufacturers in making the best possible sub pixel rendering for pentile. Basically, on this PPI, you cannot get traditional RGB matrig, you need to get, pentile RGBG, where B and R are 2/3 of a pixel size. Every pixel has green element and either R or B. Green controls the luminosity for the most part to human eye. As R and B are big, human eye actually even sees those pixels, and that's what you see as red bleeding on left side of sharp lines and green bleeding on right sides. Oh, crap, now I looked at you photo. No, that should not be happening to my knowledge. I'll take a look tomorrow on your example case on both displays we are shipping with (we had plenty of versions of the displays during the making on N9, some times to the better, some times to the worse)
So it looks like someone is at least looking into it.
For those of you who didn't check the Kontrori "Q&A" here is an interesting bit:
<SNIP>
So it looks like someone is at least looking into it.
Yeah someone in this thread posted that Qn...
And then konttori eventually posted in this thread, to confirm he's looking into it.
The color depth issue I posted earlier:
Here's an image taken from a news site and a second, edited version that resembles the image as shown on the N9. Again, I checked on a C7; there, the image looks just like it does on the desktop (above).
The image on the right has exact same banding effect I had on my old Panasonic plasma. It was fixable with a fw update... I hope the same can be done with N9 even though I don' see or notice the problems mentioned in this thread.
blackbox
2011-11-03, 19:18
So, after so many days of dealing with this issue, I decided to return the N9 for an exchange. I just couldn't handle it anymore. Hopefully, the one I get in return doesn't have the purple/pink bleeding on the left side of the screen. Or at least, not as obvious as on the unit that I had.
It's a damn shame I have to return the device since I really enjoyed using it so much. Now I'm using my old N8 for the time being until i get the exchange and I have to admit, I find myself double tapping the screen to unlock it every now and then...even swiping the screen! lol! It really grows on you those gestures and really makes sense.
I have also uploaded a photo of the issue I had since I had to provide a picture to the customer care. Let me know if you guys are having this too. I did the best i could to capture it in a dark environment. For those interested, I took this on the N8. :)
benny1967
2011-11-03, 19:58
Let me know if you guys are having this too. I did the best i could to capture it in a dark environment. For those interested, I took this on the N8. :)
exactly the same here.
blackbox
2011-11-03, 20:04
exactly the same here.
I will let you know if the one that I get exchanged has the same issue or not. At that point, I think we will have to see what kind of fix PR 1.1 brings. Otherwise, it may be safe to assume that this is a hardware screen issue and there really isn't much we could do about it. :mad:
I will keep you posted.
somedude
2011-11-03, 20:05
N9 64 GB made in China sourced from Negri Electronics arrived today and I can confirm that the pink line on the left and green line on the right is perfectly visible which runs from the top to the bottom in web browser.
blackbox
2011-11-03, 20:35
N9 64 GB made in China sourced from Negri Electronics arrived today and I can confirm that the pink line on the left and green line on the right is perfectly visible which runs from the top to the bottom in web browser.
yes that is true on all n9's as far as I know. This is characteristic of the Pentile Amoled display. Are you seeing the purple tint though?
somedude
2011-11-04, 03:37
yes that is true on all n9's as far as I know. This is characteristic of the Pentile Amoled display. Are you seeing the purple tint though?
dont really know what kind of tint i am looking for,,
blackbox
2011-11-04, 15:14
dont really know what kind of tint i am looking for,,
On the upper left hand corner of the display, are you noticing a pinkish/purplish bleeding on your screen? This is most visible in dark environments.
Also, if you scroll back a couple of posts, I had posted a photo.
ste-phan
2011-11-04, 16:22
Here's a ms paint illustration :)
http://bayimg.com/FaKLLaadj
A: Oh, crap, now I looked at you photo. No, that should not be happening to my knowledge. I'll take a look tomorrow on your example case on both displays we are shipping with (we had plenty of versions of the displays during the making on N9, some times to the better, some times to the worse)
So it looks like someone is at least looking into it.
Maybe it is worth to mention to Konttori (hope I spell the name correctly) that the illustration by Weird0 represents the situation in Lanscape mode , at least for me.
He might be used to zooming in on portret mode text and not notice the ugly phenomenon.
Provosti
2011-11-05, 01:27
Is there -anyone- who doesn't have those ugly lines and really visible color distortions of red and green in low light conditions?
Please say so!
ste-phan
2011-11-05, 03:39
Is there -anyone- who doesn't have those ugly lines and really visible color distortions of red and green in low light conditions?
Please say so!
Are you an optometrist or optician looikng to identify potential customers?
Maybe it is worth to mention to Konttori (hope I spell the name correctly) that the illustration by Weird0 represents the situation in Lanscape mode , at least for me.
He might be used to zooming in on portret mode text and not notice the ugly phenomenon.
It's not weird0's illustration, it was DeeGee's (pg3 of this thread):
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1112032#post1112032
Weird0 noticed konttori's response to DeeGee's Qn, & re-posted it in this thread.
But konttori had already posted in this thread by then...
I think konttori's smart enough to see that the illustration represents a landscape scenario.
I put up a page here (http://zerion7.pp.fi/n9/) to show the problem at the repair shop. If you put your device into landscape and zoom so the chessboard pattern fills the bottom of the screen and the top is white, the lines are very noticeable.
Since I first noticed the lines, I've now started noticing them everywhere, where there's something dark next to something light. Even just opening the vkbd in apps with white background in landscape view I see the lines fill the area above the vkbd.
I should check the Dell Venue Pro AMOLED. But I can totally see it on my N9.
ste-phan
2011-11-05, 08:33
I think konttori's smart enough to see that the illustration represents a landscape scenario.
And yet he is surprised to see that picture? So he is either lacking eyesight or the screen problems are really random.
Where is Konttori posting follow up to this, about his findings on testing displays?
benny1967
2011-11-07, 22:19
i'll be able to check this next week with a device that's supposed to be ok.
but the guy who owns it watched my video, saw he stripes there and said he couldn't reproduce it on his n9.
OK, I met the guy with the N9 he said was OK - and it wasn't. He only had set the brightness to almost maximum, so he didn't notice. (They're hardly noticeable on mine when I set brightness so high).
BUT: Still, after I decreased the brightness level and compared the two phones, mine was a lot worse than his. Also, his didn't have the purple tint on the upper right corner (portrait).
(I was afraid I might have ruined his fun with the phone, but he'd already decided to sell it and go back to Symbian, anyway :) ...)
So while I still have to see a working screen on the N9, I now know the problems aren't always as evident as on my device. This may explain why some here do see them, but wonder what the fuzz is all about. :)
And yet he is surprised to see that picture? So he is either lacking eyesight or the screen problems are really random.
Where is Konttori posting follow up to this, about his findings on testing displays?
Patience mate, patience.
BUT: Still, after I decreased the brightness level and compared the two phones, mine was a lot worse than his. Also, his didn't have the purple tint on the upper right corner (portrait).
So while I still have to see a working screen on the N9, I now know the problems aren't always as evident as on my device. This may explain why some here do see them, but wonder what the fuzz is all about. :)
Thanks for that!
Hmm, so it sounds like at least two of the issues come down to hardware?
i.e. the panel type being used.
(I was afraid I might have ruined his fun with the phone, but he'd already decided to sell it and go back to Symbian, anyway :) ...)
Eiiiiwww :eek: :D
blackbox
2011-11-08, 21:05
OK, I met the guy with the N9 he said was OK - and it wasn't. He only had set the brightness to almost maximum, so he didn't notice. (They're hardly noticeable on mine when I set brightness so high).
BUT: Still, after I decreased the brightness level and compared the two phones, mine was a lot worse than his. Also, his didn't have the purple tint on the upper right corner (portrait).
(I was afraid I might have ruined his fun with the phone, but he'd already decided to sell it and go back to Symbian, anyway :) ...)
So while I still have to see a working screen on the N9, I now know the problems aren't always as evident as on my device. This may explain why some here do see them, but wonder what the fuzz is all about. :)
Thanks for that info Benny! So the purple tint thing has to be a defect if you didn't notice it on the other N9. That sucks. You should ask for an exchange. That's what I have done, and I am still impatiently waiting for it.
On that note, now that PR 1.1 is rolling out, I was wondering if anybody noticed those changes Konttorri said about the display over-saturation thing?
benny1967
2011-11-08, 21:13
No change wrt display issues in PR 1.1
celebrant
2011-11-15, 10:46
Mine has issues too (Black 64)
1) Black spots on black-ish background (Feed view with no events or application switcher with no open applications). I wrote 'black-ish' because I expected black to be really black on AMOLED. But it is not :( Still way better then N900 though..
2) Horrible colors when the screen is dimmed by the light sensor. Very noticeable and really annoying when watching movies at night. Everything gets a strong green tint especially black has dark green spots.
2.1) Over-saturated colors when not dimmed.
3) White and light grey as seen in 'Clock' gets weird grey/green stripes when dimmed
4) There is a clearly visible green line on the right side of the display and a purple one on the left side (in portrait).
5) Depending on the 'darkness' of used grey it has a purple or a green tint. Kinda funny when light and dark grey colors are next to each other and one is green and the other is purple. Funny and sad :(
Well, I guess 2-5 can be attributed to the Pentile matrix and I'll just have to live with it. I tried to make photos of my screen but N900 is not good enough for something like this :D
Edit: I've also seen this ugly thing happening on my N9:
I'm also seeing the stripes. They show up in both portrait and landscape, but they are much easier to see in landscape. It looks like there is a "invisible line" that bleeds everything that's on the line through the screen (upwards when in landscape, in portrait it's to the right).
So there might be just white on the invisible line and there's no stripes on the screen. But when black text hits the line, the black bleeds through the whole screen.
Here's a oh, so wonderfull paint illustration... :D
http://bayimg.com/FaKLLaadj
It's really hard to get proper photos of it, because it's not that bad, and when trying to get photos you actually need to make them bit blurry or the lines disappear into the moire noise.
http://image.bayimg.com/fakllaadj.jpg
When adjusting the brightness to low and using the N9 in a dark room (avoid light sensor adjust the brightness to high), some strange lines appear on my N9 screen, very noticeable on white/grey background.
Same as the picture below.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/12/nexuss6001.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/brixius/images/xda/lines1.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/brixius/images/xda/lines6.jpg
Does anyone have this problem?
hotnikkelz
2011-11-15, 18:35
Uhmmm, isn't that a samsung you're rocking? We can see the samsung label at the top of the phone in the 3rd pic. The first pic looks like the notification android drawer as well. What kind of stunt are you pulling here?
celebrant
2011-11-15, 18:41
Same as the picture below.
I believe that these pictures were meant to serve as an example. I tried to describe those lines in my post (number 3) now we have a photo of it.
You're not alone.
I got my N9 on Saturday and noticed the pink fringing on white text and the left edge of a white panel straight away. Sadly that seems to be an issue with pentile AMOLED displays just not being as good as RGB panels. It reminds me of Windows text anti-aliasing. I stare at Mac screens most of the time with occasional switches to Windows so I notice these things. I would hope it could be tweaked though. MacOS on the same panels doesn't have the same issues Windows has so it can be alleviated with software obviously. To me it just looks like the sub-pixel rendering algorithms need a bit of a tweak.
The black spots on dark grey screens I noticed last night watching a video in a dark room and then discovered this thread. I've got a black line about 4mm wide stretching about 2/3rds of the way over the screen about where the volume buttons are. I've got two parallel lines about 4mm wide and 2cm long in the middle of the screen toward the right edge. I've got another blotch near the bottom left of the screen. I only notice these when displaying something dark grey in the dark. I was playing Tron (the movie) on it so you can imagine how distracting dark splotches are on a mostly dark grey movie. (As an aside, the movie player skips frames all over the place on movie files that worked great on my C7 - hope they can get a better performing codec sorted)
The black spot issue is obviously a manufacturing issue and it's very, very disappointing. I don't notice it 99% of the time but I know it's there. When it's such a beautiful and expensive slab of technology, little flaws are not acceptable. If I wasn't enjoying the phone so much otherwise I'd send it back. I figure I'd give it a while to see if Nokia responds to this issue and fixes it in a later production run. Seems pointless getting a replacement just now if it comes from the same production run. Surely they're going to have the same issues with the Lumia 800 which shares a similar screen?
The automatic screen brightness adjustment also seems to have a life of it's own. I hope that's fixable in software also because it does ramp up and down a bit too aggressively.
Love the phone and OS but I'm somewhat disappointed by the screen.
I have exactly the same black (blacker?) spots on my N9, down on the lower left. I think it's definitely a manufacturing defect, whereby when assembling the glass & screen, this black smudge appears.
I also noticed it while watching Tron! :P
When adjusting the brightness to low and using the N9 in a dark room (avoid light sensor adjust the brightness to high), some strange lines appear on my N9 screen, very noticeable on white/grey background.
Same as the picture below.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/12/nexuss6001.jpg
Does anyone have this problem?
I also have this issue. & you don't need to have a black screen to view it. Open the gallery & view any photo. You feel that there's some kind of extra layer between the screen distorting the optical properties.
:(
BigBadGuber!
2011-11-15, 20:01
It is sad to see NOKIA screwing up again. Sad, very sad, muy sad. Just get an iphone. It works
Uhmmm, isn't that a samsung you're rocking? We can see the samsung label at the top of the phone in the 3rd pic. The first pic looks like the notification android drawer as well. What kind of stunt are you pulling here?
These pictures just serve as an example because I can't describe the problem of the lines on screen as good as these pictures.
The first picture I reference from engadget's nexus s review.
Link: http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/10/nexus-s-review/
Quote from engadget
We did see some strange issues with the display -- while it does look handsome in most settings, we noticed some strange inconsistencies in the panel against certain colors or tones. It was particularly pronounced on solid gray backgrounds (as you can see above). We're not sure the cause of the problem (or if it was simply an issue with the device we had), but it was somewhat troubling.
The other pictures I reference from this forum, but I can't read the language.
http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/1460828/96
These lines on screen very noticeable when the screen brightness is low, but if you adjust the brightness to high/max, they disappear.
BlinkThinks
2011-11-18, 07:41
Hello guys! I got my black 64GB N9 yesterday. It's unfortunate that I had to return the unit today for replacement because the unit had black spots manifesting when I'm using the camera in a dark room and when I'm watching videos with dark scenes. Here's a picture of the issue:
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2826/blackspots.jpg
Apologies for the picture quality, but in person it's very noticable. There are also black patches scattered on the lower part of the screen. They are not dead pixels. Rather like 'after burn' effect on a plasma screen. Or a soot in the screen. Those two black lines are also manifested during the phone's boot up just beside the Nokia logo.
Kindly check your screen if anything like this happens. You must be in a dark room and using the camera function. I forgot to set the screen brightness to full, but I think it will manifest more. The issue will never show up when you're in a perfectly lit area.
I think Nokia should be informed about this issue.
I'm waiting for a new unit replacement.
Hello guys! I got my black 64GB N9 yesterday. It's unfortunate that I had to return the unit today for replacement because the unit had black spots manifesting when I'm using the camera in a dark room and when I'm watching videos with dark scenes. Here's a picture of the issue:
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2826/blackspots.jpg
Apologies for the picture quality, but in person it's very noticable. There are also black patches scattered on the lower part of the screen. They are not dead pixels. Rather like 'after burn' effect on a plasma screen. Or a soot in the screen. Those two black lines are also manifested during the phone's boot up just beside the Nokia logo.
Kindly check your screen if anything like this happens. You must be in a dark room and using the camera function. I forgot to set the screen brightness to full, but I think it will manifest more. The issue will never show up when you're in a perfectly lit area.
I think Nokia should be informed about this issue.
I'm waiting for a new unit replacement.
Let us know when you get your replacement. It seems every single N9 has this issue... :confused:
benny1967
2011-11-18, 16:32
I wonder if there's a difference between the 64 and 16GB models? Like: There are display issues only in one of them? ...?
I have a 64GB device. Anyone with 16GB seeing the issue?
I wonder if there's a difference between the 64 and 16GB models? Like: There are display issues only in one of them? ...?
I have a 64GB device. Anyone with 16GB seeing the issue?
I quickly tested a blue model at a store and it had the same issues with the reddish/green lines. So 16GB devices have the same issues as well.
My 64GB model just came back from the repair shop and they apparently swapped the display to a new one. However, this didn't improve matters as the issue with the lines still exists. The display actually seems to be slightly worse since the red tint on left side of the display, when it is positioned vertically, is now much more noticeable than with the old display.
blackbox
2011-11-18, 17:13
I quickly tested a blue model at a store and it had the same issues with the reddish/green lines. So 16GB devices have the same issues as well.
My 64GB model just came back from the repair shop and they apparently swapped the display to a new one. However, this didn't improve matters as the issue with the lines still exists. The display actually seems to be slightly worse since the red tint on left side of the display, when it is positioned vertically, is now much more noticeable than with the old display.
Where did you get your 64GB model from? Is it made in Finland or China?
Where did you get your 64GB model from? Is it made in Finland or China?
I got it from a Finnish cellphone store called Elisa Shopit and it's made in Finland. I don't think that really matters though since I believe that they use the same components everywhere and in every N9 model.
blackbox
2011-11-18, 21:25
I got it from a Finnish cellphone store called Elisa Shopit and it's made in Finland. I don't think that really matters though since I believe that they use the same components everywhere and in every N9 model.
Thanks for that info. I just wanted to make sure I could rule out whether it is coming from a specific factory or not. And it is also certain that it doesnt matter what model you get, 16 or 64GB, the culprit is the Pentile Matrix screens used in these devices. There are some who get lucky with less tint and some unlucky people get annoying tint, black spots, and whatever other display issues that have come up in this op. :mad:
Unfortunately, getting a replacement is like taking a gamble on whether your replaced device will be better or worse.
I searched on internet and found that the screen issue may casued by AMOLED technology.
Other phones with AMOLED screen (eg. Samsung Galaxy S II) also have this problem.
The vertical lines are very noticeable on this picture:
http://cheema.com/TearsOfS2/BlobTestLarge.jpg
Check this link for more details:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1320942
I'm very interesting to know if someone's N9 doesn't have this problem.
blackbox
2011-11-22, 19:57
Hello guys! I got my black 64GB N9 yesterday. It's unfortunate that I had to return the unit today for replacement because the unit had black spots manifesting when I'm using the camera in a dark room and when I'm watching videos with dark scenes. Here's a picture of the issue:
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2826/blackspots.jpg
Apologies for the picture quality, but in person it's very noticable. There are also black patches scattered on the lower part of the screen. They are not dead pixels. Rather like 'after burn' effect on a plasma screen. Or a soot in the screen. Those two black lines are also manifested during the phone's boot up just beside the Nokia logo.
Kindly check your screen if anything like this happens. You must be in a dark room and using the camera function. I forgot to set the screen brightness to full, but I think it will manifest more. The issue will never show up when you're in a perfectly lit area.
I think Nokia should be informed about this issue.
I'm waiting for a new unit replacement.
Where did you get your device from? I just recently received a black 64GB model from negri electronics and I have those exact same black spots on mine. Another weird thing with this device is that when I opened it and started it up, the default pics/videos were all missing. The box was sealed and everything. But to have those exact same spots you are is kinda of weird to me.
Also this one doesn't have a dark pink hue/tint on the side. There is a slight tint. Better than the previous one I had.
BlinkThinks
2011-11-23, 00:43
Where did you get your device from? I just recently received a black 64GB model from negri electronics and I have those exact same black spots on mine. Another weird thing with this device is that when I opened it and started it up, the default pics/videos were all missing. The box was sealed and everything. But to have those exact same spots you are is kinda of weird to me.
Also this one doesn't have a dark pink hue/tint on the side. There is a slight tint. Better than the previous one I had.
I got mine in a local shop in the Philippines. CMK Cellphones. I've since returned it and got a refund. If your default pics and videos are missing you can reflash your device including the EMMC file from NaviFirm or you can just download them here, I can't find the thread title but someone posted a link of the default files included in the phone.
It is sad to see NOKIA screwing up again. Sad, very sad, muy sad. Just get an iphone. It works
There is something wrong with your brain, really.
90% of your posts...
"See it's bad there too, told ya (even though you didn't & never had a clue), just get an iPhone."
I searched on internet and found that the screen issue may casued by AMOLED technology.
Not all the issues are though, read the thread from the beginning.
I was a little confused as well with jakiman's blog on the color saturation issue. The way i understood it was that, the purple/pink over-saturation is there to adhere to situations when the n9 would be in very bright environments and as such, this over-saturation is intentional. Therefore, my assumption was that, because of this, when the n9 is in darker environments, this purple or pink over-saturation is still there.
Apparently, in the PR 1.1 release of the N9, Konttorri claims the following:
"Color management is less nervous than before (neutral sRGB space color palette is now used always, except in clearly outdoor situations, when oversaturation is applied to adjust how eye desaturates content in brightness)."
Let's hope that this is what I and others in this forum have been experiencing and gets fixed! :)
Lol!!, I'm still a bit confused as I also could be interpreting my issues completely different than those voiced by Konttorri.
So did anyone find that some of the noted issues (there were several, some quite obviously sw-related) were rectified with 1.1?
I've PM'd konttori & asked if he can clear everything up for us now.
Cool link, thanks. I checked it with Samsung display and the effect can indeed be seen. I'll check with LG tomorrow (don't have one at home) to see if there is a difference. But I fear this is just simply an issue in OLED displays of this generation.
Oled is still in it's baby steps and this kind of issues are not totally surprising.
Thanks konttori, please note jakiman's post #54 (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1114300#post1114300)....
AFAIK despite being marketed as an AMOLED CBD, the N9 is a SAMOLED (pentile) + Nokia twks.
And yet jakiman's Samsung Omnia 7 (SAMOLED pentile) doesn't have the 2nd issue listed in his post?
Soo... Any way to differentiate N9's manufactured with LG display vs Samsung ones? :D
(if the LG ones don't have this pink bleeding)
Konttori, if you've got a minute, can we please have an update on all of this.
It's almost 1-month but we've heard nothing back from you/Nokia yet.
Thank-you.
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2826/blackspots.jpg
Aaaaaahh... Now I see what you mean by those black spots! I have this, too.
I didn't worry about it, because I had the same already in my N8, so I just think it is a common AMOLED issue (screen bleeding, or however you want to call it)...
Therefore it doesn't bother me, because it's only visible to me in rare conditions (using the phone in pitch black night, which is really seldom for me).
mirondanro
2011-11-23, 09:49
Aaaaaahh... Now I see what you mean by those black spots! I have this, too.
I didn't worry about it, because I had the same already in my N8, so I just think it is a common AMOLED issue (screen bleeding, or however you want to call it)...
Therefore it doesn't bother me, because it's only visible to me in rare conditions (using the phone in pitch black night, which is really seldom for me).
After reading this post I tried to see if I have something similar on my screen and indeed in the upper right corner there is a fade black stripe and also on the sides of the screen.
People can try to see if they have these blackish areas by turning off all lighsts in the room making complet darkness and then use the camera app or much better go on the multitasking screen with nothing open and wait for 2 min so the eyes acomodate and you will probably start seeing dark spots stripes mostly close to the edges of the phone. As soon as you put a bit of light they are not visible anymore. I also vaguely notice them when watching a video with black backround with no light in the room.
For me it looks like it can be from how the screen was glued to the phone or something (the gorilla glass on to the amoled), or is maybe something form the polarization of the screen?
People should test this to see if it is so common.
mikecomputing
2011-11-23, 10:24
Thanks for that info. I just wanted to make sure I could rule out whether it is coming from a specific factory or not. And it is also certain that it doesnt matter what model you get, 16 or 64GB, the culprit is the Pentile Matrix screens used in these devices. There are some who get lucky with less tint and some unlucky people get annoying tint, black spots, and whatever other display issues that have come up in this op. :mad:
Unfortunately, getting a replacement is like taking a gamble on whether your replaced device will be better or worse.
Get over it it has NOTHING to do what factory it is. Its more related to "first batches always has issues" But ofcourse we should not accept fault devices. Send it back for a replacement if people has problems instead of start thing it has to do with what factory or similar... No meaning sitting here and cry about it. Every damn new device has issues on first batches.
BlinkThinks
2011-11-23, 10:52
Ok. Instead of having a replacement, the shop gave me a full refund. All the units they got, including the one they were supposed to give me for replacement has either those lines or more spots. I opted for a full refund instead...
Yesterday, I looked for another shop. I found one selling for the same price. They didn't have any 64GB stock, the store made a reservation for me, and was told to return the next day. Today, I went to that shop. Guess what? NO DARK LINES AT ALL as well as those bloody dark spots!!! I'm very very happy! Yeepi-ka-yey!! :D
mirondanro
2011-11-23, 20:34
I made a picture of my screen in total darkness using a photo camera, 8 s exposure, and ISO 400. This way I could more or less capture how the black spots/strips appear on the screen.
The result:
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3165/screen0q.jpg
Same image with levels enhanced in Photoshop for a better view of the dark areas (you don't see them so well in reality):
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6707/screentnk.jpg
Do you guys think this is a big issue with the screen as visually it doesn't bother me? I never see them in normal conditions.
BlinkThinks
2011-11-25, 03:31
That long line in the middle may bother you when you're using your camera app at night or watching video in the dark.... I returned my unit because it was really bothersome. The new unit I ought from another shop doesn't have those long lines / black spots... I now believe it has something to do with the installation of the screen on the unit....
Friend was going to drop by CMK for me but now I want the flawless one :) Whats the other shop that had them ?
-Jonan
Ok. Instead of having a replacement, the shop gave me a full refund. All the units they got, including the one they were supposed to give me for replacement has either those lines or more spots. I opted for a full refund instead...
Yesterday, I looked for another shop. I found one selling for the same price. They didn't have any 64GB stock, the store made a reservation for me, and was told to return the next day. Today, I went to that shop. Guess what? NO DARK LINES AT ALL as well as those bloody dark spots!!! I'm very very happy! Yeepi-ka-yey!! :D
So is there a verdit on the black spots? Is it just something that is the case with AMOLED displays?
I took a photo in a dark room the other day and had 2 black spots on the screen. Am thinking of taking it directly to Nokia to see if they know about it or not....
mirondanro
2011-11-26, 08:06
So is there a verdit on the black spots? Is it just something that is the case with AMOLED displays?
I took a photo in a dark room the other day and had 2 black spots on the screen. Am thinking of taking it directly to Nokia to see if they know about it or not....
I would say that it is not related to the screen itself, not to the electronic part AMOLED. It could be related to the way the gorilla glass was glued to the AMOLED, something with the paste they used creating this dark areas.
here they show the glue thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwoGxrLZlAk
mirondanro
2011-11-26, 12:53
So is there a verdit on the black spots? Is it just something that is the case with AMOLED displays?
I took a photo in a dark room the other day and had 2 black spots on the screen. Am thinking of taking it directly to Nokia to see if they know about it or not....
I think that probably someone should ask nokia. It could be an issue related to the way they glue the gorilla glass to the amoled screen - not homogeneous distributed glue. It is not necessary to be an electrical issue with the screen itself as when the screen is bright and the led's are on there is no black...
I just did some research, and A LOT of Galaxy users have the same issue.... So it definitely seems to be an issue with Samsung's production technique. Someone was saying that they've been doing a dodgy job with sealing the back of the screen.... Not sure i'll take it back now as it really is hardly noticeable, my case is nowhere near as bad as some of the pictures i've seen
donofworld
2011-11-26, 16:12
This problem is common for all phones with amoled pentile matrix based display made by samsung
check this moto razr thread at xda
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1360178
So is there a verdit on the black spots? Is it just something that is the case with AMOLED displays?
I took a photo in a dark room the other day and had 2 black spots on the screen. Am thinking of taking it directly to Nokia to see if they know about it or not....
Spots aren't the only issues discussed on this thread, read back through it.
Pg 6 & 8 in particular IIRC are pretty enlightening, but best to read it all.
IIRC it was already agreed that the black spots were probably a characteristic of AMOLED/production.
Unless someone beats me to it....
I may do a summary of it all soon, & then get the OP to update the 1st post.
It's getting too tedious, all the info/observations are too disjointed.
blackbox
2011-11-27, 01:35
Spots aren't the only issues discussed on this thread, read back through it.
Pg 6 & 8 in particular IIRC are pretty enlightening, but best to read it all.
IIRC it was already agreed that the black spots were probably a characteristic of AMOLED/production.
Unless someone beats me to it....
I may do a summary of it all soon, & then get the OP to update the 1st post.
It's getting too tedious, all the info/observations are too disjointed.
That would be great thing to do Jalyst. In addition perhaps you could also add some info to some users who are willing and ready to take their devices apart as i believe there are 3rd party sites that are selling nokia n9 oem screen parts. The way I have come to deal with it is that i can eventualy replace the screen myself. There is also a video floating around youtube showing you how. To me, it doesnt look too difficult as long as you have the right tools and patience. The replacement i got doesnt have the purple tint but definitley the dark spots which isnt bad if your not watching it in pitch dark. In my case, i rarely do. Just my two cents.:)
let me know what you guys think and whether you agree or not.
EDIT: Here is a link where you could find not only the display but also the Housing which looks white to me. So for those interested in customizing their 16GB nokia n9 to white, this may be the solution. Not sure though how reliable this site is: http://www.parts4repair.com/nokia-n9/
Spots aren't the only issues discussed on this thread, read back through it.
Pg 6 & 8 in particular IIRC are pretty enlightening, but best to read it all.
IIRC it was already agreed that the black spots were probably a characteristic of AMOLED/production.
Unless someone beats me to it....
I may do a summary of it all soon, & then get the OP to update the 1st post.
It's getting too tedious, all the info/observations are too disjointed.
The reason i mention it is because someone in this thread returned their phone and got one that has NO black spots... which would lead me to believe that it has something to do with Samsung's quality control on their screens...
For the record it has nothing to do with the display being stuck on to the screen, as a lot of Galaxy phones are having the same issue
I'll drop by the Nokia store near mine and see if any of the repairers know anything about the issue
A little more research on this led me to this post in a forum:
"Last night, I spoke with my LCD PHD friend a bit more about this...
He said that OLED is made from a light producing organic plastic. Thus there will always be some variation to the brightness that is displayed throughout the screen. The only question is determining if yours is good enough or there is too much distortion. So all of the claims about getting replacements that are worse or just as bad, are right on. You just need to determine the relative quality of your phone's screen... but most people don't have anything to compare against."
Okay guys, sorry for all the posts but i've finally managed to nail it. What everyone is experiencing with the blotches/lines/spots is an effect of AMOLED displays... the imperfections are called 'mura'
I found a website that produces some sort of special layer that prevents mura.... they give a brief description of (their) OLEDs
1) An OLED (organic light-emitting diode) layer that emits light.
2) A backplane, made of TFT (thin-film transistor) circuits that provide current to the OLEDs, thereby controlling their brightness.
3)Polysilicon backplanes don’t provide uniform current because of manufacturing non-uniformities. Without IGNIS technology, the TFT circuits will provide different current to the OLEDs, which results in lines, spots, and cloudy areas known as “mura”.
4) IGNIS AdMo-p™ technology uses a patented TFT pixel circuit and driving scheme to compensate for the non-uniform backplane. So the TFT circuits always provide uniform current to the OLEDs, even though the TFTs themselves aren’t uniform. This means the AMOLED display will always show smooth, mura-free images.
http://www.ignisinnovation.com/technology/ignis-technology-overview/ignis-admo-p-technology
So fear not, your phone isn't faulty!!!! It's just a matter of getting a display that has less imperfections than others
This doesn't explain all the issues mentioned in the thread.
If someone else can do the summary of the entire thread before me, please do.
Otherwise I may do so in the next week or so...
I have PM'd konttori again, I don't know his twitter so haven't tried that.
I might try his blog post....
Okay guys, sorry for all the posts but i've finally managed to nail it. What everyone is experiencing with the blotches/lines/spots is an effect of AMOLED displays... the imperfections are called 'mura'
I found a website that produces some sort of special layer that prevents mura.... they give a brief description of (their) OLEDs
1) An OLED (organic light-emitting diode) layer that emits light.
2) A backplane, made of TFT (thin-film transistor) circuits that provide current to the OLEDs, thereby controlling their brightness.
3)Polysilicon backplanes don’t provide uniform current because of manufacturing non-uniformities. Without IGNIS technology, the TFT circuits will provide different current to the OLEDs, which results in lines, spots, and cloudy areas known as “mura”.
4) IGNIS AdMo-p™ technology uses a patented TFT pixel circuit and driving scheme to compensate for the non-uniform backplane. So the TFT circuits always provide uniform current to the OLEDs, even though the TFTs themselves aren’t uniform. This means the AMOLED display will always show smooth, mura-free images.
http://www.ignisinnovation.com/technology/ignis-technology-overview/ignis-admo-p-technology
So fear not, your phone isn't faulty!!!! It's just a matter of getting a display that has less imperfections than others
So we can conclude that the "mura" thing are these lines that appear due to non-uniform brightness:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/12/nexuss6001.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/brixius/images/xda/lines1.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/brixius/images/xda/lines6.jpg
But that still doesn't explain the black spots, which has nothing to do with the brightness because the pixels are switched off, i.e. no current.
:confused:
jejansso
2011-11-27, 19:08
I got an opportunity to check my friends N9 and it had these purple lines, as my N9 did too.
I sent the N9 for maintenance, but I'm most certain that every N9 has this issue. It's really hard to notice in store, as they tend to have strong direct lights above the phones. I checked the only N9 in store and it had this issue too.
Now I'm waiting for the opinion from Nokia and will return the phone if it's beyond repairing...
So we can conclude that the "mura" thing are these lines that appear due to non-uniform brightness:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/12/nexuss6001.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/brixius/images/xda/lines1.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/brixius/images/xda/lines6.jpg
But that still doesn't explain the black spots, which has nothing to do with the brightness because the pixels are switched off, i.e. no current.
:confused:
I quote from the aforementioned site: "Polysilicon backplanes don’t provide uniform current because of manufacturing non-uniformities. Without IGNIS technology, the TFT circuits will provide different current to the OLEDs, which results in lines, spots, and cloudy areas known as “mura”."
Those black spots are mura and lines are mura, too. Mura is a term that describes all those imperfections.
montamer
2011-11-28, 01:15
Looks like droid razr has the same issue, There is whole thread at motorolla forum discussing this issue. If you go to page 3 you will see that some display's has few of these black spots where as on others it is quite noticeable.
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/61777?start=0&tstart=0
I thought I would post an update on my situation. I spoke with the manager of the store where I bought my N9 from and apparently the official position of Nokia, and of the store I bought the phone from, is that the purple/green lines are not a defect but rather of a feature of the display used in the phone.
I also spoke with the Finnish consumer ombudsman who said that apparently my only option in order to have chance at getting a refund or some of my money back is to make an official complaint to the Finnish Consumer Disputes Board.
I'll call the store back tomorrow and try to argue my case again and bring up the issue with the color depth of the display.
benny1967
2011-11-30, 13:38
... the purple/green lines are not a defect but rather of a feature of the display used in the phone
a feature? how?
benny1967
2011-11-30, 13:47
Okay guys, sorry for all the posts but i've finally managed to nail it.
I don't think you have.
3)Polysilicon backplanes don’t provide uniform current because of manufacturing non-uniformities. Without IGNIS technology, the TFT circuits will provide different current to the OLEDs, which results in lines, spots, and cloudy areas known as “mura”.
This would mean that those lines or spots would always be at the same position on the display, right? Thats not the case. They move across the screen, depending on where you scroll the (dark) content to.
a feature? how?
I wonder about that too. I guess it's the old software defense "It's not a bug it's a feature!" applied to hardware. :mad: Apparently this should be accepted by us, the consumers, because the same "features"/faults can be found in other phones as well, at least that was the explanation from Nokia relayed to me by the store manager.
My previous phone had a pentile matrix AMOLED display and it didn't have such "features". The sad fact is that if I take it to the Consumer Disputes Board their decision could take almost a year and it's not legally binding since it is a mere recommendation about how the dispute should be solved. It is a shame that Finland doesn't have a small claims court system like U.S. does.
jejansso
2011-11-30, 18:28
Teemu R, I'm with you on this one. I bought my N9 from Gigantti, which had the same reaction on my N9. Mine is still at repairs, but when I asked the salesman at store what should we do if the lines are beyond repairs, he simply answered "well then you propably make an official complaint about this".
Never buying anything from that store and from Nokia, if this is the only option...
IsaacDFP
2011-11-30, 19:24
Looks like droid razr has the same issue, There is whole thread at motorolla forum discussing this issue. If you go to page 3 you will see that some display's has few of these black spots where as on others it is quite noticeable.
https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/61777?start=0&tstart=0
I got my N9 about last week, and yesterday I notice these marks in the dark. I panicked thinking I scratched it, lol, but happy to know i'm not the only one. On that website page 3, the very last picture on the bottom, that's exactly what is shown on my screen. Again, I never noticed it in daily use, only once i was in completely darkness and my screen was darken... So far I doesn't bother my day-to-day use at all, but I just hope it won't get worse... :(
montamer
2011-12-01, 08:27
The links are posted in the motorola forum.
Read this:
http://androidforums.com/3542874-post8.html
S2 also has it???
http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s2-international/423152-dark-screen-blotches.html
I haven't got my N9 yet. Waiting to see if this issue will be resolved with new batches of the phone. :D. Any suggestions?
As my previous post states, it's not a 'fault' with the phones, it's the limitations being used in the current technology
There is technology available that makes sure these lines/blotches don't appear, however it would be very unlikely for the manufacturer of the screens (samsung) to start using this new tech on the current screens
litemotiv
2011-12-02, 19:51
Do you guys also notice a long afterimage / ghosting on your screens?
I have a pretty light wallpaper set on my status screen, and when i unlock my phone from the lockscreen the time afterglows visibly on the wallpaper for a number of seconds. I estimate it takes about 10 seconds to completely disappear...
Is this also a side effect of the used screen type?
izangeek
2011-12-08, 14:14
I currently own 2 N9 handsets (Black 16GB / Cyan 16GB) there are clear difference in colour rendering between both handsets with the Cyan showing more natural colour. (white is white) while the Black gives a green tint to the white. In the beginning i had the screen changed for the Black one as it had a lot of the 'dark' spots now lesser and not 'killing' me.
But i realised the green tint still persist with the new screen, making me wonder if the driver in it that is causing the tint as the Cyan handset produced natural colours. Now I'm contemplating if there is any chance for Nokia Care Centre to change it or it is something i have to dreadfully live with.
DanielRigler
2011-12-08, 16:10
Is there an official statement regarding this display issue? (significantly different tints) It is quite bothering.
Still haven't had a response from konttori about all the issues.
He was going to get back to us....
Might need to try something else other than PM'ing him.
Been meaning to summarize them all. Will do soon hopefully.
Most seem to be put down to one thing or another.
But there's still at least one issue that's unexplained IIRC.
And one or more of them should be fixable via software.
Hey guys. OP here. I am a bit of a lazy scumbag so I want to say sorry for not updating this thread :p
Anyway I got some interesting news for you guys. Here goes my story. As I stated in the original post I had a 64 gb Nokia N9 from Three DK, but ended up getting a full refund because in the end the screen was unbearable. I still stuck to these forums, reading this thread once in a while to see how things went with the screen and researching on the N9.
So today I bought a N9 again, this time the 16 gb model from a danish retailer unlocked without contract.
Whats interesting is that my new N9 doesn't have the black spots. I was quite stunned because after following this thread for 2 months I came to the conclusion that we had to live with the black spots, but man were I happy to see that my new phone got nada black spots.
I think that Nokia has slightly updated the N9 and this belief can be supported with the fact that the headphones which came with my new N9 is not the same as the one that came with my 64 gb I returned 2 months ago.
I still got the old headphones lying around (teehee I kept them when I returned the phone), so if its noteworthy I can try to take a photo of the old and new headphones.
I still haven't checked my new phones for the red lines in the browser. Going to sleep now :/ Will do a follow up later.
BlinkThinks
2011-12-09, 04:25
@weird0
can you post a pic of the two headphones? I'm curious as to the differences....
When I initially posted here. My first purchase had black spots as well. I returned it, had a refund and bought from a different store - the N9 is officially available in my country and both stores I got it from are official Nokia retailers.
Anyway, the second one doesn't have the black spots and I'm happy. A few days after my purchase, I got another N9 and the second one doesn't have the black/dark spots as well.
The headphones that came with the two 'unaffected' units came with the same headphones as the one that I originally got....
montamer
2011-12-09, 08:50
@wierd0
I am interested in the pics as well. I haven't got my N9 yet, and was waiting for the Screen issue to get resolved in the newer hardware/batch. :rolleyes:
I think you'll find you just got lucky. The current generation of AMOLED screens has this side effect.... People with Samsung Galaxy phones have taken them back for repair only to find their new screen has the same issue
....And i've heard now that Samsung are telling Galaxy users that this is a common effect of the screen, and that therefore they won't replace them
benny1967
2011-12-09, 12:04
The current generation of AMOLED screens has this side effect.... People with Samsung Galaxy phones have taken them back for repair only to find their new screen has the same issue
Which 'issue' are you talking about? There are 3 (maybe 4) issues being discussed in this thread. (None of which is really acceptable; if this is a side effect of the current generation of AMOLEDs, then they're currently selling a faulty batch to device manufacturers.)
Which 'issue' are you talking about? There are 3 (maybe 4) issues being discussed in this thread. (None of which is really acceptable; if this is a side effect of the current generation of AMOLEDs, then they're currently selling a faulty batch to device manufacturers.)
The blotches/spots/lines you can see in a pitch black room, when viewing a dark image. Technical term is mura. I've already posted in this thread about it. Even TVs suffer from this problem
BlinkThinks
2011-12-09, 14:59
Hmmm. Those are the Nokia WH-701 and is the standard headset issued with the N8 :p
Are you sure your store didn't switch them? :D
Anyways, I also got them, and am actually using with my N9 - if my Philips SHB9000 is too big to carry...
What do headphones have to do with this thread? :confused:
*EDIT*
NVM read some of the earlier posts.
benny1967
2011-12-09, 16:42
The blotches/spots/lines you can see in a pitch black room, when viewing a dark image. Technical term is mura. I've already posted in this thread about it. Even TVs suffer from this problem
Oh. This is hardly noticeable and the least annoying of all these problems.
I upgraded my N9 from PR1.0 to PR1.1, these issue still existed.
That would be great if Nokia release a software update with a newer version of display driver and fixed the screen issues. But I don't think these are software related problems. :(
Finally got a response from konttori...
He's given me a better contact at Nokia (display side expert).
I will gather-up all the doco'd issues soon & contact him.
If anyone can trawl the thread & summarize them in the the meantime.
That'd be hugely appreciated....
repost from a diff thread as seem this issue has similarity to this post:
Hello there, I have recently noticed that I see some horizontal lines showing up when chatting up in skype or facebook. Its only been 2 weeks since i got the n9. Dec 5th is the day I powered the N9 on.
Problem description:
Nokia N9 64gb - no mods.
Lines showing up on the N9 while chatting on FB or Skype.
The lines are showing horizontal. Upward direction while in landscape mode.
Lines have a green/pinkish tint to them.
Lines are very visible when the keyboard is out.
Testing:
The lines are specially visible when you are in landscape mode and viewing it form an angle. I have set up the brightness to its lowest and one can see it clearly. Max brightness Its hard to tell until you really look close. Also in portrait mode I can see that the left side of the screen is darker compared to the right side. This might be due to the keyboard layout when its in landscape mode. Further more the lines are very visible when the keyboard is out in landscape mode.
Is it something to do with the white background of the phone?
Tested it out with the clock on the N9 as it has also somewhat whitish bg on it. Cannot discern the lines.
Next testing area is the browser, default browser for the nokia n9 shows some lines in landscape mode. Portrait mode almost none.
This happens again in the lowest possible brightness setting. Max brightness still visible but you have to really look closely in portrait mode. Most visible when the keyboard is out.
Conclusion:
Testing confirms that in the lowest brightness setting the phone shows lines of green/pinkish tint while in white bg. Very visible in landscape mode especially when the keyboard is out.
Max brightness not so much visible.
Is there anyway to confirm this from other n9 users?
I cant take a photo of it atm as it is raining and gloomy here. (will update on this)
What can I do to fix this? Any advice is much appreciated.
~ This is the same issue that benny1967 and wierd0 posted, no black dots on the phone's physical screen though. Just the annoying lines when viewing webpages or chatting in skype and fb. ~
Can anyone who has an N9 confirm that they do indeed DO NOT have the pink/green streak of lines mentioned in this thread? As I am about to return this beautiful product to my online retailer for a new one if its applicable.
Much love and thanks :D
I can confirm that the lines are definitely there on my N9 but they're hardly noticable. I guess all N9 show the lines to some degree.
I don't have the dark blotches mentioned earlier, but I do have very faint pinkish lines when scrolling against a white background in the web browser. Since it only occurs in landscape mode (how about portrait when viewed from the side?), might it be a product of the Pentile subpixel arrangement?
Thank you for the replies, I guess it will be useless to return the product because of the lines in landscape mode since its penTile related. Portrait mode the lines are not so much visible, hardly noticeable until you look at it in a magnifying glass. The black dots are not on my phone either. I believe it is caused my the glue they used while manufacturing the screen. I do not think Nokia manufactures their own screens.
I wish I would have never read this thread as I started noticing them after it got described here lol.
Now my question is, does the lines bother you? Or should I say how are you able to live with it? This is my first penTile smartphone.
Again an update on my situation. Having complained, by email, to the store about the green/red lines and the color depth of the display I got a reply that basically said that they still weren't willing to refund me even with the added color depth complaint.
Since the email didn't include any details regarding how the store manager had gone about forming the conclusion that they didn't consider the color depth issue serious enough, I replied and asked whether he had asked Nokia about it and whether either Nokia or the store were still willing to admit that the display did not conform to the advertised specs. What I got back was basically a restatement of the earlier, "Sorry still no refund." email that didn't answer either of my questions.
I again got in touch with the consumer ombudsman who directly contacted Nokia. This morning she got back to me with the news that Nokia had stated that although they admit that the display does not match the promised specs they do not consider the issue to be bothersome enough for the user to warrant a refund. So it's basically the same story as with the green/red lines but now they at least admit that they are wrong instead of saying, "It's not a defect it a feature!"
If I'm seeing the same lines that you're seeing, I personally would not want to return my N9 (even if I could!).
However, I'm not at all bothered by the screen of my N9, as these lines are very faint, only occasional and have to be sought to be noticed. So if your phone's issue is bothering you, its possible we're seeing different things. Might be worth asking the store/manufacturer if a return would be possible, or trying out another N9 to see if the same issues are present.
Thank you for the replies, I guess it will be useless to return the product because of the lines in landscape mode since its penTile related. Portrait mode the lines are not so much visible, hardly noticeable until you look at it in a magnifying glass. The black dots are not on my phone either. I believe it is caused my the glue they used while manufacturing the screen. I do not think Nokia manufactures their own screens.
I wish I would have never read this thread as I started noticing them after it got described here lol.
Now my question is, does the lines bother you? Or should I say how are you able to live with it? This is my first penTile smartphone.
eaglehelang
2011-12-15, 13:53
Can anyone who has an N9 confirm that they do indeed DO NOT have the pink/green streak of lines mentioned in this thread? As I am about to return this beautiful product to my online retailer for a new one if its applicable.
Much love and thanks :D
When you're free, can you please take some photos of how the lines look like? And under what conditions they appear, other than the brightness.
So far(have had the N9 for 1 month+), I only see the usual slight pink or blue tint when viewing at an angle, no lines of any sort or colour.
I just got another new N9 (Austrian Product Code) and it has a black dot (d=2.5mm), I can see it when it's completely dark.
When you're free, can you please take some photos of how the lines look like? And under what conditions they appear, other than the brightness.
So far(have had the N9 for 1 month+), I only see the usual slight pink or blue tint when viewing at an angle, no lines of any sort or colour.
I can't take a picture as the N9 is really my only semi-capable camera, sorry. However if you'd like to try and replicate what I'm seeing, I find it's worst when zoomed into headings on the Engadget home page.
As I can see, the lines appear in pink and green on pixel rows with elements on a light background. As they appear perpendicular to text in landscape, and parallel with text in portrait, I'd suggest this is definitely a quirk with the Pentile subpixel arrangement.
benny1967
2011-12-16, 11:24
As I can see, the lines appear in pink and green on pixel rows with elements on a light background. As they appear perpendicular to text in landscape, and parallel with text in portrait, I'd suggest this is definitely a quirk with the Pentile subpixel arrangement.
Does it look anything like the video I linked to before?
http://blip.tv/ossi1967/nokia-n9-display-issues-5657368
(The video makes it look more black and white when it's really more purple/green)
If so, I really doubt it's a matter of the pentile subpixel arrangement.
ste-phan
2011-12-16, 11:31
Finally got a response from konttori...
He's given me a better contact at Nokia (display side expert).
I will gather-up all the doco'd issues soon & contact him.
If anyone can trawl the thread & summarize them in the the meantime.
That'd be hugely appreciated....
Do you feel that a display side expert will acknowledge the defects and so doing admit his or his team's mistake of certifying this screen in the first place?
I hope so, but I can't see how they will ever call these several issues defects.
If they do they may then have to recall all of the screens, while there is still a majority (?) of users out there that does accept the screen quality, like Nokia anticipated (floating icons, high brightness in sunny environment wow factor)
It is very hard to draw the line on which screen is legible for RMA and which not.
There for I think it is better to focus on one single undeniable defect and push it from there.
The movies look great on the N9: but black spots visible when watching dark scenes in movies movies? - very distracting.
Bottom line is that the implemented technology seems just too low end for a premium priced device like the n9.
And I am not saying that I would not be prepared to pay 1000 for a better screen, because I would.
The target group for this device has higher expectations from the display.
When dealing with display issues (human eyesight related issue) the risk is to have your screen replace endlessly for an worse copy.
Because I read Nokia is still calling the N8 purple effect normal depending on where and how you present your problem.
Anyway good luck and feel free to ask assistance.
scapegoat845
2011-12-16, 23:31
No black spots in the dark room on the camera app, but i def. have them pinkish lines that look like a UPC code. They only seem visible by eye or by taking an actual picture of the phone itself with a camera. I uploaded some screenshots from the ScreenshotMee app to my pc, & i couldn't see them at all. So it's def. a panel issue. Now debating what to do. I think i can deal with it. Should have a poll on this thread....
Here's to hoping I'm not beating a dead horse.
Kinda off-topic, but I think the black spots are surely an AMOLED problem. People over at NeoGaf report somewhat reminiscent problems on Playstation Vita with black spots shown in the darkness:
http://i.imgur.com/dux7c.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kdAhk.png
(PS Vita got an OLED screen)
lennyk1313
2011-12-29, 18:33
Does it look anything like the video I linked to before?
http://blip.tv/ossi1967/nokia-n9-display-issues-5657368
(The video makes it look more black and white when it's really more purple/green)
If so, I really doubt it's a matter of the pentile subpixel arrangement.
This is exactly what happens to my screen but only on some backgrounds and text display. it was very strange the first time I saw it, but I guess its widely happening.
Please check my thread about green cast on my screen while viewing from an angle. I attached a comparison picture over here. My unit is older(geen cast), while the other unit is newer (normal but appears to be slightly pink/purple on the picture)
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1143675#post1143675
Hi there!
This my first post here. I'm a future N9 user. I was doing some research, and I stumbled upon this thread. I checked out some more sites and found another one related to weird0's concern. This one, however, got fixed (at least according to the author/editor).
Check it out:
http://www.abudapest.com/latestnews/nokia_n9_oled_display_with_minor_issue/
I'm not sure if anyone posted this link already, I'm too lazy to check. I hope someone finds this useful. :)
ZerionSeven
2012-01-03, 19:29
I've not noticed any spots or lines on dark backgrounds, but I do have these really obvious purple/green lines bleeding from anything dark on light backgrounds. I'd really like know if this can possibly be normal behavior for the screen.
http://zerion7.pp.fi/n9/bleeding.png
scapegoat845
2012-01-03, 19:51
I've not noticed any spots or lines on dark backgrounds, but I do have these really obvious purple/green lines bleeding from anything dark on light backgrounds. I'd really like know if this can possibly be normal behavior for the screen.
http://zerion7.pp.fi/n9/bleeding.png
That is exactly what i have....
I would be surprised to see a N9 or Lumia 800 screen that didn't show this behavior with that checkerboard pattern. I think it's just the degree of intensity that varies between devices, ranging from hardly noticable to unacceptable.
original_z
2012-02-17, 17:07
Can we have someone who has the problem with the black spots in video playback post a link to a video that they were watchign when they saw the problem, and reference a time stamp for the rest of us to look at?
I just got an N9 used from Amazon and want to check for problems. I do notice the purple bars if I use that checkerboard image to fill up half of the screen in landscape, but don't notice them too much when doing browsing.. a little on the top in portrait mode where the search bar is, perhaps.
my buttons are a bit loose, too, but that's going off topic..
Lumiaman
2012-02-17, 17:13
My first N9 did have screen problems, but the latest N9 I got, white 64gb, made in finland does not have screen issues. I believe that the first batches suffered.
Its funny to think that N9 was just a practice run for Lumia, to work out the kinks. For example, my lumia side buttons are perfect, but on my first N9 they were loose, and on my second N9 they are too flush with the edge and you really have to push it to work
On my friends black N9 16GB Made in China for Singapore buttons are perfect but on my two black N9 16GB, both Made in Finland, one for Romania and the other one for Austria has loose buttons and I just hate that.
I'm getting the third one so I'll report that.
Discoveryellow
2012-03-14, 01:06
I have black spots/streaks on my screen when viewed black colour in dark. I do also see flickr and light vertical lines (light green and pink) when viewed in portrait mode especially with keyboard on screen. My N9 is made in Finland.
Just took this image: http://flic.kr/p/bCSFLi
Is that what you guys see?
uzernamezz
2012-03-14, 06:02
I don't know if any one of you tried this, but to see it
1. Activate the standby screen (make sure the screen tone is "vivid", haven't tried with other tones yet)
2. Go to a completely dark room
3. Cover the clock with a cloth
You'll notice that the black part of the screen flickers at a rate of 1 flick per second. I haven't seen this behavior on the N8 (Anna and Belle screensavers)
Hey, ive been watching this post because i have been thinking of buying a nokia n9. I will try to address somethings i found out. Ok. I think the purple lines are called colour fringing. This is what is is.
Colored fringing around highlights or dark regions may
be due to the receptors for different
colors having differing dynamic range or sensitivity -- therefore preserving detail in one or two color channels,
while "blowing out" or failing to
register, in the other channel or
channels. (source wikipedia)
colour fringing is because of the pentile matrix.
Chromatic aberration is a lens-based
defect that occurs because the refractive
index of optical glass varies with
different wavelengths. In most optical
glass types, blue light is bent
('refracted') more than green or red light. As a result, a simple lens is unable
to bring all wavelengths of light into a
single focus point on the image plane.
There are two main types.
With longitudinal chromatic
aberration, wavelengths towards the blue end of the spectrum focus slightly
in front of the image plane and
wavelengths towards the red end of
the spectrum focus behind
it. Transverse (or lateral) chromatic
aberration occurs when the different focus points are side-shifted. In practice,
lenses affected by chromatic aberration
generally suffer from both types. It is
most common in wide angle lenses of
the retro-focus type and older tele
lenses (including zooms).
» although this is for a camera you can see the potential with amoled technologies.
Chromatic aberration manifests itself as "fringes" of color along boundaries that
separate dark and bright parts of the
image, because each color in the optical spectrum cannot be focused at a single common point. >> So you see because of the arrangement of the pentile matrix this is what happens. colour distribution is not even. I hope this makes sense? I'm typing form a mobile phone. Il have to get back with the dead pixel explanation.
Ok wanted to add something more, you see.
Red+ green+ blue = white.
So purple is created from Red and blue.
> the human eye is most sensitive to green, so when there is a transition the green is turned off leaving purple. (my theory anyways)
but it explains why amoled has a strange green tint. If RGB makes white then adding green will only make it green because light is a mixture of colours, adding more green as in the RG-BG configuration makes it green thus a green tint. So the purple is as a result of the technology/programming pentile layout.
Sorry if I'm posting too much just want to be helpful. Most people say they see it in landscape now take a look at a pentile matrix for amoled. Notice the pixels. Now turn it landscape and you will see RB-RB-RB pixels lined up.
Hey Guys i was researching it, and in simple, it is because of Amoled Technology, the way it is created. In a short way to explain the TFT backplate matrix behind the Amoled carries the Current, so the pixels can be darkened or brightened as you need, But some how when the Amoled screen is being made, Because the TFT is made from Silicon and a laser is used to convert it into a semiconductor, Because of the Heat spread of the laser, the crystals are not uniform, and so a uniform current does not pass through the screen and to each Pixels, resulting in problems are you guys are facing.
Discoveryellow
2012-03-17, 17:49
was there also a question about black spots?
Lumiaman
2012-03-17, 21:15
For all you screen aficionados, you may find this microscope dude comparison of various screens illuminating:
http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2012/03/16/ipad_screen_microscope/
He calls pentile amoled screens horrible:
http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2011/05/09/pentile_oled_screens/
No wonder Nokia changed to a LCD screen on the Lumia 900. Would've been just awefull with a pentile screen in that size with that resolution o.O
Regards Dousan.
was there also a question about black spots?
I found it interesting you said spots on black background. Because amoled screens pixels arrested suppose to be turned off when displaying black.
Was you phone a first batch to come out? Could it be your panel?
No wonder Nokia changed to a LCD screen on the Lumia 900. Would've been just awefull with a pentile screen in that size with that resolution o.O
Regards Dousan.
actually, lumia 900 uses amoled. But not the pentile one. The RGB amoled like samsung uses.
Apparently nokia has a deal with samsung as on of their biggest amoled buyers.
No wonder Nokia changed to a LCD screen on the Lumia 900. Would've been just awefull with a pentile screen in that size with that resolution o.O
Regards Dousan.
Nope it's still AMOLED, it just has a higher sub-pixel density & better sub-pixel arrangement.
Samsung's marketing term for it on it's panels is known as Super AMOLED Plus.
Pixel density being equal, it's only significant practical advantage is reading fine print/text.
It's something that may have been do-able for the N9,* but no, it somehow had to be left out.
Hmmm I wonder why.... :rolleyes:
*It wasn't unprecedented at the time, then again Nokia's never cutting edge w/hw, haven't been for years.
Discoveryellow
2012-03-19, 01:33
I found it interesting you said spots on black background. Because amoled screens pixels arrested suppose to be turned off when displaying black.
Was you phone a first batch to come out? Could it be your panel?
I have no idea. :(
But check out my photo of my N9 screen with the spots http://flic.kr/p/bCSFLi/
I have black spots/streaks on my screen when viewed black colour in dark. I do also see flickr and light vertical lines (light green and pink) when viewed in portrait mode especially with keyboard on screen. My N9 is made in Finland.
Just took this image: http://flic.kr/p/bCSFLi
Is that what you guys see?
Sir, can those spots and/or lines be seen in a not-so-completely-dark room? The store where I'm getting it doesn't have a dark room, so would putting the phone in a box be enough to see those spots? Thaanks! ;D
For all you screen aficionados, you may find this microscope dude comparison of various screens illuminating:
http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2012/03/16/ipad_screen_microscope/
He calls pentile amoled screens horrible:
http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2011/05/09/pentile_oled_screens/
i don't think pentile is that bad, I mean, you must do some stressing for you to see it, Well for me, the range i hold the phone when walking and on a day to day basic is fine.
whites, are a problem, But thats what you get when you have new technologies, Like Plasma,
Peoples don't forget try using your Amoled on low brightness, because it has burn-in when you have full brightness and displaying the same thing over and over
Some tips, Avoid using the same time format, every few weeks switch from AM/PM to 24 hrs because the M might burn in. and it will leave marks on your phone screen.
Get a short display timeout- OLEDS break up over time, the brighter the display the faster they bread down.
Avoid Deep blues, Or blues, the blues have the fastest breakdown rate. Greens are better and last the longest.
Try shifting your icons so they don't burn -In and leave marks on your screen.
there is an image from Gsmaerna showing Amoled v SLCD, real world close up
Something bizarre happened to me just 1 hour ago. I just came back home from my home town using Nokia Drive (aprox 90min) and everything was completely normal. After i parked my car and got the mobile, it shows a green vertical line on the screen. It´s visible in every app and not in the main menu. Tried to solve it by powering off and on again, restoring...so i assume that´s a screen problem. Have you had that problem?
I wouldn´t like to send it back to the nokia care point, as it has all my job documents, contacts....
Thx! :)
Discoveryellow
2012-03-30, 17:35
Something bizarre happened to me just 1 hour ago. I just came back home from my home town using Nokia Drive (aprox 90min) and everything was completely normal. After i parked my car and got the mobile, it shows a green vertical line on the screen. It´s visible in every app and not in the main menu. Tried to solve it by powering off and on again, restoring...so i assume that´s a screen problem. Have you had that problem?
I wouldn´t like to send it back to the nokia care point, as it has all my job documents, contacts....
Thx! :)
Back up your data. Move the back up to your computer and ship off to service. (I hope you have your Nokia 1100 ready for temporary use.)
Discoveryellow
2012-03-30, 17:37
i don't think pentile is that bad, I mean, you must do some stressing for you to see it, Well for me, the range i hold the phone when walking and on a day to day basic is fine.
whites, are a problem, But thats what you get when you have new technologies, Like Plasma,
Peoples don't forget try using your Amoled on low brightness, because it has burn-in when you have full brightness and displaying the same thing over and over
Some tips, Avoid using the same time format, every few weeks switch from AM/PM to 24 hrs because the M might burn in. and it will leave marks on your phone screen.
Get a short display timeout- OLEDS break up over time, the brighter the display the faster they bread down.
Avoid Deep blues, Or blues, the blues have the fastest breakdown rate. Greens are better and last the longest.
Try shifting your icons so they don't burn -In and leave marks on your screen.
there is an image from Gsmaerna showing Amoled v SLCD, real world close up
Thank you for great tips!
Do you know what is the origin of black spots on the screen?
Thank you for great tips!
Do you know what is the origin of black spots on the screen?
I posted it a while back but because im using phone it just say it again. Its how the screen is. The panel problem. When they make an amoled screen. There is a TFT silicon backplate. Which is supposed to carry the current to the pixels turning them on and off etc... While creating the matrix a laser is used to change the silicon. Because the laser does not heat equally (middle heat different from outside of the laser heat) the crystals in the TFT dont form equally so an equal current does not pass to all pixels. The effect is called mura. Sadly it's a feature of amoled screens. The technology has not been perfected yet like LCD. Some have it worse and others don't.
I had this "pinkish stripes/lines in landscape" issue on my blue N9 ( several photos in this thread from other users). One day after purchase got new phone and same issue. My friend has white 64gb and no pink stripes. So sent today phone for repair, I guess they gonna change screen or something...
Edit: Picture from few pages back, I had this, my friend didn't have->
http://zerion7.pp.fi/n9/bleeding.png
Discoveryellow
2012-04-13, 03:42
I had this "pinkish stripes/lines in landscape" issue on my blue N9 ( several photos in this thread from other users). One day after purchase got new phone and same issue. My friend has white 64gb and no pink stripes. So sent today phone for repair, I guess they gonna change screen or something...
Edit: Picture from few pages back, I had this, my friend didn't have->
Wow, thanks for posting!
Can you tell me what capacity is your N9 (16/64Gb) and where is is made? And what about your friend's white N9?
My black 64Gb N9 Made in Finland has same stripes and also black spots in the dark. Don't know if I shall bother to try to get a replacement or all N9 AMOLEDs that way. :(
rainisto
2012-04-13, 04:17
I had this "pinkish stripes/lines in landscape" issue on my blue N9 ( several photos in this thread from other users). One day after purchase got new phone and same issue. My friend has white 64gb and no pink stripes. So sent today phone for repair, I guess they gonna change screen or something...
Edit: Picture from few pages back, I had this, my friend didn't have->
That pings stripes picture comes with trickery used by that blackandwhite squares, if same phone browses normal web pages there is no bleeding effect. Someone is screwing the system if they send device to nokia care because of abusing testing pattern picture that amoled screens doesnt like.
I had this "pinkish stripes/lines in landscape" issue on my blue N9 ( several photos in this thread from other users). One day after purchase got new phone and same issue. My friend has white 64gb and no pink stripes. So sent today phone for repair, I guess they gonna change screen or something...
Edit: Picture from few pages back, I had this, my friend didn't have->
That pings stripes picture comes with trickery used by that blackandwhite squares, if same phone browses normal web pages there is no bleeding effect. Someone is screwing the system if they send device to nokia care because of abusing testing pattern picture that amoled screens doesnt like.
I didn't use myself that trickery, that picture is just for making clear point what I had without that pattern picture. Those stripes are most noticeable on that homepage/bookmark page in browser.
I had 16gb cyan and box says made in Finland. Not sure yet about my friend's.
ZerionSeven
2012-04-13, 09:21
That pings stripes picture comes with trickery used by that blackandwhite squares, if same phone browses normal web pages there is no bleeding effect. Someone is screwing the system if they send device to nokia care because of abusing testing pattern picture that amoled screens doesnt like.
Here's another picture of the same phone showing a "normal" webpage with the same pink stripes. (since when is it normal for a screen to be unable to display a simple checkerboard pattern...)
http://zerion7.pp.fi/n9/bleeding-2.png
The problem is even worse when you scroll a page, as the lines kind of shimmer.
Every N9 I've seen has this problem, although the intensity does vary some. As such, I've not taken mine for repair. (also I have no black spots, so I'm a little worried I might get a screen with that problem in return) Though all the N9s I've seen have been early made in Finland ones so perhaps the problem's been fixed in newer ones?
rainisto
2012-04-13, 11:53
ohwell apparantly you can get bleeding effect on some devices more easily than others. With testing pattern I can see bleeding in my too, but not in normal use. Of course if you see it on normal use and it irritates you too much then might be wise to try to get it replaced.
Discoveryellow
2012-04-17, 03:14
Here's another picture of the same phone showing a "normal" webpage with the same pink stripes. (since when is it normal for a screen to be unable to display a simple checkerboard pattern...)
http://zerion7.pp.fi/n9/bleeding-2.png
The problem is even worse when you scroll a page, as the lines kind of shimmer.
Every N9 I've seen has this problem, although the intensity does vary some. As such, I've not taken mine for repair. (also I have no black spots, so I'm a little worried I might get a screen with that problem in return) Though all the N9s I've seen have been early made in Finland ones so perhaps the problem's been fixed in newer ones?
Well, not too cool: I have both black spots - most irritating in the GOF2 game - and I have AMOLED bleading - most annoying when typing SMS in portrait mode, the screen shows green, pink and dirty white stipes upwards of the on-screen keyboard.
ITs a feature of amoled.. AMOLED TECH is not ready yet eg, not too many companies are investing, sony cut back, and LG is focusing on large applications of oled for tvs and stuff, so that leaves samsung and Au-Optronics .there is not too much competition so, innovation is show.
Got my phone back from repair after week, they changed the screen/panel aaaand...No, issue is still there. I'm gonna tomorrow visit maybe more proper and official care place.
Made a video, my friend's N9 and mine. Man, my N9's screen looks total crap vs friend's...
http://youtu.be/aXLQIHkWeOY
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