View Full Version : Getting new phone: N9 or N900?
skykooler
2011-10-13, 13:13
So...my N900 is broken and I have to get a new phone. I have used an Android phone for about two months now, and while it's fun it's not a practical Linux phone for development work. So I want to get a new N900. However, from what I understand the N9 is now (barely) available and has better specs. So what is your take on this: would it make more sense to buy a used N900 or a new N9? (I would prefer a N950, but was not lucky enough to get my hands on one.)
well... hw keyboard is a beatch here, so i think you should probably go for N900
N900 for keyboard and working FM Transmitter.
skykooler
2011-10-13, 13:53
FM transmitter doesn't work in the N9?
It does (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=78963), just not on the N950 from what I've read.
Anyway, while I haven't used an N9(50), to be honest, I can't imagine a phone with only an OSK to be a "practical Linux phone for development work" either
Couldnt you just BT a keyboard, or would that not be sufficient?
corduroysack
2011-10-13, 15:38
if it was me i'd get another n900 nothing else compares.
Yeah its not there yet (comparable to the N900, that is). Then again it is pretty much where my N900 was after about two weeks released. N900 got better over time, and I have a hope that the N9 will follow suit.
It does (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=78963), just not on the N950 from what I've read.
We actually don't know yet if N9 does.
The post in that thread's wasn't 100% clear.
It does seem obvious now however that FMRX/RDS is def. working.
Will be fine-tuned for GUI use etc over coming mths.
Personally no hw qwerty is not the issue for me that it seems to be for others.
There's portable BT/USB keyb's that'll always be better for serious typing than built-ins.
N9 is better in just about every other respect hardware-wise:
*64GB Storage
*Improved SoC
(mostly a die-shrink & a big clock bump but not as simple as that, plus likely to have good overheard for OC'ing above the default GPU/CPU clocks)
*NFC
*polycarbonate body (likely to have better cellular reception)
*Way better screen (resistive's awesome for some applications, but the N9's screen is far better overall when one carefully analyses both)
*1GB Ram
No doubt I'm forgetting something...
Definitely or possibly coming:
*BT4.0 (coming)
*FMRX/RDS (coming, FMTX not 100% certain yet)
*Flash11 (looking very unlikely, but not ruled-out completely yet)
No doubt I'm forgetting something...
Software is quickly becoming less of an issue now that open mode is a reality w/AEGIS.
If Nokia doesn't open more of the default UI/apps, & if they don't improve/fix them quickly enough over time.
Then users will have the option to switch to bits from: Cordia/MeeGoCE/Plasma or do an entire UX transplant.
All these projects are coalescing around one another nowadays, including one responsible or the core/middle-ware.
This time round there's universal agreement to establish 100% independence, from the Base to the UX.
So as to be free from the whims of large commercial contributors....
So if N9 users aren't happy with how Maemo* (& possibly work from Meltemi later) or Tizen's progressing they'll have options.
*I prefer to call it that instead of meego
N900 hands down. the n9 doesnt even have flash and necer will. trust me n900 capable of more.
N900 hands down. the n9 doesnt even have flash and necer will. trust me n900 capable of more.
Agree what's the point buying a N9 when you're the developer type of person. None whatsoever as far as I know.
N9 is a regular boring smart phone trying to compete with the iCrap and likes. Nah, go for an N900 for sure.
skykooler
2011-10-17, 04:04
Agree what's the point buying a N9 when you're the developer type of person. None whatsoever as far as I know.
N9 is a regular boring smart phone trying to compete with the iCrap and likes. Nah, go for an N900 for sure.
Thanks, I think I will. From what I've been hearing the wifi isn't that great in the N9, and it isn't completely rootable (correct me if I'm wrong about that).
Radicalz38
2011-10-17, 04:19
Deciding between n9 and n900 is just like deciding between windows XP & Vista. :D
Cool this is my 999th post from a thread talking about the n9[00] generations :eek:
From what I've been hearing the wifi isn't that great in the N9,
General performance is good, stability is the issue.
It's been fine-tuned in PR1.1, which rumours are suggesting will most likely be available within the next mth, tops
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1109732#post1109732
Orig. article that post's based on (this in-particular's an important read)
http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2011/10/n9-on-sale-in-finland-and-few-other.html
and it isn't completely rootable (correct me if I'm wrong about that).
Did you not read post #10 of this thread?
See this thread, important read from pg 8 onwards
http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575&page=8
ste-phan
2011-10-17, 12:05
the N900 is the must have workhorse.
the N9 is nice but totally optional.
Better get a second hand N900 now, while they are cheap and easily available.
A new N9 later when they get cheaper, more available, less mythical and more updated.
I doubt I will ever have more than one N9.
attila77
2011-10-17, 13:40
It's an apples to oranges comparison and I'd say it depends on the use-case which one 'makes more sense'. TBH, the only reason I turn my N900 on nowadays is to verify community package builds for mobility and such, and I'm most certainly a developer :) Also, some of the N900 features brought up here are easter eggs, never officially supported by Nokia so it's a bit weird to count those against the N9 (which hasn't even been properly started to be hacked around).
kanishou
2011-10-17, 14:39
Not that there is anything wrong with it, but I find it a bit weird when people say "N900 for developers". Do you guys really develop on your phone?
The N9 just strikes me as the far more interesting device to create software for, which I assumed would be what developers are more interested in.
There are use cases where the N900 really shines, like the frequently mentioned remote administration over SSH, but they don't strike me as particularly developer centric.
So what I would be asking is, what do you want to use the device for as a user, rather than as a developer. But of course if you actually want to write software using your phone, the N9 is a really bad choice.
But of course if you actually want to write software using your phone, the N9 is a really bad choice.
Agree with all your sentiments, but not so sure on this one. Why do you say this?
Are you talking about the ease with which it is to literally write software actually on the N900, compared to the N9?
skykooler
2011-10-18, 04:15
Not that there is anything wrong with it, but I find it a bit weird when people say "N900 for developers". Do you guys really develop on your phone?
The N9 just strikes me as the far more interesting device to create software for, which I assumed would be what developers are more interested in.
There are use cases where the N900 really shines, like the frequently mentioned remote administration over SSH, but they don't strike me as particularly developer centric.
So what I would be asking is, what do you want to use the device for as a user, rather than as a developer. But of course if you actually want to write software using your phone, the N9 is a really bad choice.
Well...I like for the N900 that I can take a desktop PyGTK app and with minimal tweaks (backporting the Python) I can make it run on the N900...can the N9 do that? What is the devel environment like on the N9?
kanishou
2011-10-19, 14:30
Agree with all your sentiments, but not so sure on this one. Why do you say this?
Are you talking about the ease with which it is to literally write software actually on the N900, compared to the N9?
Yes, assuming that we are talking about the N900 being nicer to write software with (out of the box)... At least it got a keyboard. It still doesn't make sense though. :)
kanishou
2011-10-19, 14:37
Well...I like for the N900 that I can take a desktop PyGTK app and with minimal tweaks (backporting the Python) I can make it run on the N900...can the N9 do that? What is the devel environment like on the N9?
There is no essential difference, other than that it's Qt based now of course, and Gtk is not available out of the box.
If you actually want to use desktop applications on your phone though, then the N900 is probably better suited again, because of the stylus making it a little bit less painful to use tiny UI elements.
I don't think that has much to do with being a developer or not either though. It's not like most developers would find the idea appealing just because they are developers, or that most users would not be able to get such applications if a developer makes them available. So it just ends up being a very specific preference.
^
Yeah maybe out-of-the-box (even then it's debatable).
But once everything is set-up I wouldn't say it's better.
I would never rely on the built-in keyboard anyway.
zillertal
2011-10-19, 16:05
Just got an N9, it's beautiful! <3
Look, I agree a phone or tiny tablet computer like the n900 it's not the best thing to write software as a developer machine (even though its actually possible on the n900). The point is that it is a machine that is better suited for the people who has a higher awareness about technology and software development. It is a rather straight off the shelf debian based computer, where you can cross compile almost anything from the large linux software library to work nicely with minor modifications. You can use ssh with a real keyboard and you even have x11 at the bottom working for you. You have python, qt, gtk and all the native stuff that is natural to an open source developer. Stuff like objective c in a closed software world (the iCrap and fruit company stuff) or a strange java moccup (dalvik) in a plastic, far away from linux phone (android) is nothing the the developer type of person would bet his horses on. In fact, even symbian is something that is even worse from that point of view. The future doesn't look too good either with nokia going for the microsoft w7. I do feel so sorry for the poor developers at nokia these days. They are quitting nokia one by one and noone is doing more than their required work hours. The passion and spirit is gone thanks to that bonehead Stephen Elop. Its obvious he is clueless when it comes the soul and ideology that drives the Finish developers.
So now we have the n9 and meego that comes as a huge disappointment, at least to me. It's a slick, thin design with some extra horse powers (far from as good as the n8 though when it comes to graphics power) , but as I see it, this is just a thin and rather ordinary phone that fits in your pocket where you can do little more than any of the other "smartphones" out there today (maybe less). well, of course it is a more true to the design linux platform underneath compared to the competitors, but good for what when it comes packaged like that?
Nope, to me its a half-assed attempt to place a jab at the evil iDonkey, and as far as it looks like it doesnt even have any nice widgets and possibility to customize to death like our beloved oddball n900. Face it, the n900 will be a one time classic for the community who truly knows what it goes for. Look, how many "smartphones" have strange things like:
* stereo speakers
* a built in table stand
* a physical keyboard with backlight
* usb otg (hostmode)
* application and kernel modules that easily can be cross compiled to the device
* flash, even if rather outdated
* easily replaceable battery
* x11 support
* 32 gig internal flash (even good by todays standards)
* full ability to customize nearly everything in the device
* being targeted with fully native code from the application straight down to the kernel.
* resistive touchscreen with a pen that slides into the phone so that you can take it out point at things with high presition even if you have your thick winter gloves on and won't have to freeze your damned fingers off when searching for music while standing in a blizzard.
Sorry if I sound a little bit too over excited here, and I do admit I am very passionate about my n900. I just cannot find any good replacements for my n900 when it breaks down one day, that's going to be a problem if the market is going to look as shitty as it does today.
like:
* a built in table stand
* a physical keyboard with backlight
* easily replaceable battery
As I see it, these are the only true stand-outs from the things you've listed.
Everything else listed is debatable, or still a possibility, at least to some extent.
Then there's the numerous areas that the N9 is better than the N900...
As I see it, these are the only true stand-outs from the things you've listed.
Everything else listed is debatable, or still a possibility, at least to some extent.
Then there's the numerous areas that the N9 is better than the N900...
Not really, the list could go on with for instance integrated skype (huge difference to separate app), a lot of great customizable widgets (no, the n9 doesn't have widgets because it probably wants to look as dull as the iSnore), the n900 is not locked from doing anything you want with it (in fact it is built with the intention to be modified) in opposite to the n9 where you need to go through a sort of rooting process.
I dont' see how the x11 support, customizability, stylus, stereo speakers (and 32 gb to a lower price) is debatable. its tnings that n9 completely lacks.
Further I would be cautious talking about the hardware in the n9 since it comes with a cpu that is even inferiour to the one release in the galaxy S years ago. comparing the gpu in the n8 also makes the n9 look pretty silly.
On top of all this the N9 is very expensive if you compare it with other smartphones in the same segment and with the same target customers. If you'd want such a phone you'd be better off with a Galaxy S II by far, unless all you want is to have monster glass, true multitasking and a more true to the design linux os.
Phones today is mostly about fanboyism and neat thick, slick design and apps apps apps. If you want something else beside this superficial fluff you're left with very few alternatives.
I had my hopes up for a long time with where Meego would end up, but when i saw and read the n9 specs it was a big yawn and disappointmen
Further I would be cautious talking about the hardware in the n9 since it comes with a cpu that is even inferiour to the one release in the galaxy S years ago. comparing the gpu in the n8 also makes the n9 look pretty silly.
You mean GPU, CPU is the same. SGX 530 is still capable for current games. Unfortunately, it ain't capable of impressing your friend through benchmarks.
Of course buy N900.
Unless You want gadget toy to "impress" Your 1650435 mates in facebook and twitter - with battery hard build-in to the point You need disassembling whole device to just see it, no SD card slot, no hardware keyboard (i know, mentioned countless of times), hopeless and pathetic Aegis "platform security", and so goes on = miserably limited.
This is one of rare situations, where You may buy better device for *much* lower cost - personally, I recommend acquiring one from after-market (possible to buy one in ideal condition for ~150 $ if You search a little, and for ~200$ without any search, instantly), but of course it depends on personal preference.
Basically for (at least) power-users, N900 is obvious choice. Gadget people may prefer N9, but in this "area of market" they got more "gadgeety" possibilities ;)
/Estel
You mean GPU, CPU is the same. SGX 530 is still capable for current games. Unfortunately, it ain't capable of impressing your friend through benchmarks.
Yes, it is a SoC, thanks for pointing that out (no irony intended), but I am simply comparing performance and value for money and if you look at that you can see that you can find both cpu and gpu better than in the n9.
GPU and CPU are of course different in what they do, even if the are integrated on the same chip.
Yes, it is a SoC, thanks for pointing that out (no irony intended), but I am simply comparing performance and value for money and if you look at that you can see that you can find both cpu and gpu better than in the n9.
GPU and CPU are of course different in what they do, even if the are integrated on the same chip.
The phone is buttery smooth. Why do you whip your brain with unnecessary thoughts. Any phone will get outdated. Aren't quad cores releasing in two months? If you like it, buy it. If not, you know what to do. This phone is a rarity, it has everything out of the box and it's worth it for the price. Lots of people bought them at that price.
The phone is buttery smooth. Why do you whip your brain with unnecessary thoughts. Any phone will get outdated. Aren't quad cores releasing in two months? If you like it, buy it. If not, you know what to do. This phone is a rarity, it has everything out of the box and it's worth it for the price. Lots of people bought them at that price.
Remember the name of this thread?
I'm simply answering the guy. I know every phone (or any digital consumer product for that matter) will get outdated, but usually I look for something that's not nearly outdated before its released (like the n9). If you're judging your purchase out of its buttery smoothness I congratulate you because you will probably get something suitable for you theese days regardless what you choose. And maybe you can afford that.
Maybe its just the right phone for you and then I'm happy for you. But some people evaluate their choices out of more criterias than that. Besides, its not really an argument that many people already has bought an overpriced product (sadly enough, the fruit company is a perfect example). I think its better to buy something for the right reasons, not because so many others happens to do that.
But maybe that's whats most important for many people today? Identifying oneself with others and blending in.
"Look, I can also afford one, I'm just like you." Such stupidity and low self esteem makes me kind of sick actually. Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not totally wrong on this point.
Not really, the list could go on with for instance integrated skype (huge difference to separate app), a lot of great customizable widgets (no, the n9 doesn't have widgets because it probably wants to look as dull as the iSnore), the n900 is not locked from doing anything you want with it (in fact it is built with the intention to be modified) in opposite to the n9 where you need to go through a sort of rooting process.
I dont' see how the x11 support, customizability, stylus, stereo speakers (and 32 gb to a lower price) is debatable. its tnings that n9 completely lacks.
Further I would be cautious talking about the hardware in the n9 since it comes with a cpu that is even inferiour to the one release in the galaxy S years ago. comparing the gpu in the n8 also makes the n9 look pretty silly.
On top of all this the N9 is very expensive if you compare it with other smartphones in the same segment and with the same target customers. If you'd want such a phone you'd be better off with a Galaxy S II by far, unless all you want is to have monster glass, true multitasking and a more true to the design linux os.
Phones today is mostly about fanboyism and neat thick, slick design and apps apps apps. If you want something else beside this superficial fluff you're left with very few alternatives.
I had my hopes up for a long time with where Meego would end up, but when i saw and read the n9 specs it was a big yawn and disappointmen
So wrong, on so many counts, but CBF'd correcting every single one of them.
You are factually wrong on numerous points, making huge assumptions/claims WRT software/hw/pricing.
Framing 'everything' as inferior to the N900 overall, vastly simplistic argument.
I could easily counter much of what you claim, but I'm tired of re-typing the same crud, sorry.
It's been debated & debated, see the main thread for the same rehashed noise.
P.S.
In case you hadn't noticed. The scope of this thread is N900 V N9.
If you want to argue why the N9's worse than the SGSII or other ph's.
There's other thread/s here for that, feel free to dive-in there...
Rumors tell us that even S40 devices are going to have high-score (in benchmarks) CPU. Still, no way to productively use those - same apply to N9.
It's somehow like comparing console/computer. You can put a s**t hardware into console, but still, due to various manufacturer (design) decisions, You won't get 10% of computer (even with "lower" benchmark-rated hardware) functionality. Not to mention being upgradeable (see my signature about mugen-cover-power, and dr_frost_dk's dual-battery mod - try that with "shiny new toy" N9...).
N9 could use new advertising motto - "N9 - pay more, get less". Yea, N950 *was* meant at some point to be next generation N900, but due to various (CEO related, or not) things in Nokia, it was dumped down to N9. We've been through discussing about it so many times, that I almost feel ashamed of mentioning it again.
For any reasonable person, N900 is obvious choice, and there is no - even on far horizon (unfortunately) - device that may offer similar experience. Of course, it's still Freedom of Choice, so anyone is free to spend hard(or not) earned money on whatever she/he like.
Remember the name of this thread?
Yes, the title is N900 vs N9, not GS SGX540 vs N9 SGX530
Maybe its just the right phone for you and then I'm happy for you. But some people evaluate their choices out of more criterias than that.
Some people like you, who'd rather buy a dual core with no GPS, BT, crappy camera with a sensor produced in a village in Zimbabwe. Go for dual cores.
BTW, N9 will last longer due to it's uniqueness. GS2 will date fast since the main reason people bought it was dual core and fast GPU which already got outdate by Belle's Broadcom BCM2763 and SGX543MP2. BT is already old, N9 and iPhone 4s have 4.0, also NFC, FM transmitter (N9), etc. Oh yeah, N9 is outdated.
Besides, its not really an argument that many people already has bought an overpriced product (sadly enough, the fruit company is a perfect example). I think its better to buy something for the right reasons, not because so many others happens to do that.
Lots bought a GS2, you wanna be one of them? BTW, price doesn't matter to certain people if it offers what they want. You don't seem to be capable of affording a N9.
But maybe that's whats most important for many people today? Identifying oneself with others and blending in.
"Look, I can also afford one, I'm just like you." Such stupidity and low self esteem makes me kind of sick actually. Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not totally wrong on this point.
Yeah, you are wrong.
As I read this, with the latest Opera browser, I am sitting on my wife's car in parking lot waiting for her, listenning to *my* music being played equalized to *my* liking through a boosted FM freequency, I ask my self why would I want an N9 for?
Opera browser's available, equalizer's coming can't recall where read it OTTOMH, as is FMRX/RDS, & possibly TX.
It wasn't there out-of-the-box with the N900, so what's the problem?
Besides....
Why on earth would one want to transmit audio via FMTX, when they'd have a way better experience via BT2.1/Aux-in?
Anyone with a decent head-unit in their car, or a recent model car, has that covered.
Equalizer's coming IIRC see Kontorri's blog*
I believe Kontorri said that a third-party developer should do it as a separate application. It's not coming to the stock music player. I wouldn't want it myself, anyway. I prefer flat. I laugh when I hear people say that EQ improves sound quality.
As I read this, with the latest Opera browser, I am sitting on my wife's car in parking lot waiting for her, listenning to *my* music being played equalized to *my* liking through a boosted FM freequency, I ask my self why would I want an N9 for?
Coz it's buttery smooth, innit? ;)
N9 is a great application launcher, and as an application developer, I quite like my N950. For everything else, N900 wins.
Yeah already edited my post.
I agree about the pointlessness equalizers, LOL.
zlatokosi
2011-10-23, 22:24
Besides....
Why on earth would one want to transmit audio via FMTX, when they'd have a way better experience via BT2.1/Aux-in?
Anyone with a decent head-unit in their car, or a recent model car, has that covered.
Simply because one can use it anywhere and everywhere there is an ordinary radio player, be it in your new Ferrari or in a random village in sub-Saharan Africa. You'd be amazed at how many times I used it traveling through Ecuador, on radios way older than me (and I'm not that young anymore) ;)
I was wondering how the multi-tasking compares on the n9 and the n900. For example, on the n900, if I go to youtube and select some music to listen to, I can then do a ctrl-back arrow which puts that process in the background. I can then start another process like, say, xterm and edit a file while listening to the music from youtube. Can you do the same on the n9? That is, if you use youtube and then swipe back to the apps tray, do you still hear the music playing or does it "freeze" the app? Then to restart you swipe back to the open apps and select it. This latter case would be more or less what android does. Anyways, if the n9 multi-tasks like n900 that would be nice.
Simply because one can use it anywhere and everywhere there is an ordinary radio player, be it in your new Ferrari or in a random village in sub-Saharan Africa. You'd be amazed at how many times I used it traveling through Ecuador, on radios way older than me (and I'm not that young anymore) ;)
That's a fair enough point ;) May be an option soon enough for the N9 too.
FMRX/RDS is already mostly implemented, tis just awaiting a pretty GUI.
I was wondering how the multi-tasking compares on the n9 and the n900. For example, on the n900, if I go to youtube and select some music to listen to, I can then do a ctrl-back arrow which puts that process in the background. I can then start another process like, say, xterm and edit a file while listening to the music from youtube. Can you do the same on the n9? That is, if you use youtube and then swipe back to the apps tray, do you still hear the music playing or does it "freeze" the app? Then to restart you swipe back to the open apps and select it. This latter case would be more or less what android does. Anyways, if the n9 multi-tasks like n900 that would be nice.
This is the better thread to ask, more on topic
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=78598&page=52
I "think" (but I could be wrong) that the default browser would pause.
Not sure about Fennec though, possibly not.
But that's not the case for all apps...
There's def. stuff that still behaves the same way as Fremantle.
I was wondering how the multi-tasking compares on the n9 and the n900. For example, on the n900, if I go to youtube and select some music to listen to, I can then do a ctrl-back arrow which puts that process in the background. I can then start another process like, say, xterm and edit a file while listening to the music from youtube. Can you do the same on the n9? That is, if you use youtube and then swipe back to the apps tray, do you still hear the music playing or does it "freeze" the app? Then to restart you swipe back to the open apps and select it. This latter case would be more or less what android does. Anyways, if the n9 multi-tasks like n900 that would be nice.
On the N9, YouTube videos are launched in an external video player, which will pause when minimized. However, the N9 is capable of multitasking in the same way as the N900. It is up to developers to decide how their applications behave when minimized. I choose to let users decide, Nokia chooses to decide for you.
On the N9, YouTube videos are launched in an external video player, which will pause when minimized. However, the N9 is capable of multitasking in the same way as the N900. It is up to developers to decide how their applications behave when minimized. I choose to let users decide, Nokia chooses to decide for you.
Oops! Did I say YouTube? I meant, when I use cutetube on the n900...
Anyways, to be clear, for your n9 cutetube version, do you give the option for continued playing in background after the swipe to the open apps screen? If so, kudos to you!
May be quite off-topic, but I haven't started this - I don't get why people keep mocking up other people for using equalizers. Equalizers are - as name suggest - designed to adjust music to *Your* personal liking. Talking about "sounds better, sounds worse" is childish. In post about listening in car, it was clearly stated "to my liking". I'm not going to elaborate on personal frequency hearing ranges etc - hydrogen-audio is for ones interested in this - and to be honest, I also don't use equalizers (for power-saving purposes, and because instead, I use audio equipment that got tone of sounds that I like), but it's obvious that in many situations, equalizer is helpful.
BTW, I also can't count situations, where FM TX was only possible /convenient way streaming sound. Once, there was a funny situation in high-tech environment - during meeting where me and a couple of people wanted to watch a movie from notebook and HDMI (sadly, no miniHDMI output, on "shiny new toys" also ;) ), but for unknown reasons, big, hi-tech flat TV refused to accept HDMI sound, and we haven't got analog cables. solution? Open same video on N900, and transfer it sounds via FMTX and Hi-Fi system, synced with video output from notebook.
Yea, we're going off-topic here, but I just like to point out that "laughing" at other people using tools they have available is immature, childish, and totally non-meritocratic. And definitely, it's not a way to counter-argument that N900 have it, and N9 doesn't. Well, at least "they" got aegis to play with, which makes N9 as hard hackable as Your average android phone...
Ps.
If we're talking about "special" hardware, II can't count situations, where I blessed IR transmitter, together with TvBgone! Many, many "waiting lounges" with TV and some stupid program turned on for "entertainment", without possibility to turn it off - at least, until I pressed little button on my N900.
Anyways, to be clear, for your n9 cutetube version, do you give the option for continued playing in background after the swipe to the open apps screen? If so, kudos to you!
Yes. There are two settings:
1. Play in background (on/off, default is on). If on, playback will continue whilst you browse other videos etc, otherwise it will pause when you exit the playback screen.
2. Pause when minimized (on/off, default is on). If on, playback will be paused when the application is minimized, otherwise it will continue to play. I set the default to 'on' in order to ensure that it passed Nokia Store QA. I was concerned that it might be rejected for using too many CPU cycles whilst minimized.
On the N9, YouTube videos are launched in an external video player, which will pause when minimized. However, the N9 is capable of multitasking in the same way as the N900. It is up to developers to decide how their applications behave when minimized. I choose to let users decide, Nokia chooses to decide for you.
My bad, I thought the user was asking about listening to music on YouTube.
Which I guess would still need the dedicated player? Dunno...
And definitely, it's not a way to counter-argument that N900 have it, and N9 doesn't.
Well, at least "they" got aegis to play with, which makes N9 as hard hackable as Your average android phone...
I'm not sure if this is directed at me...
If I did cause offense to anyone with my LOL I do apologize.
I just like the "cut of Marxian's jib" sometimes.
I certainly did explain that TX is still a possibility for the N9.
Not that it's "not coming", as you describe it.
Re AEGIS, perhaps you're not aware?
http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575&page=8
Still some open questions, but light-years further than where we were.
I miss my N900. This thread is making me nostalgic :-(
let me check amazon.
My bad, I thought the user was asking about listening to music on YouTube.
Which I guess would still need the dedicated player? Dunno...
Yes. There is no way to play YouTube content within the browser (no Flash), so it launches in an external player (it may be a Flash player, similar to that on Symbian. The UI differs slightly from the normal stock video player). This player can only be launched from the mobile version of the YouTube website. If you use the desktop version, you will only see the message to install Adobe Flash.
Cheers.
Isn't a lot of YouTube content also in html5?
Trying to install a custom kernel and booting Harmattan causes a SCARY prompt with big letters that tells you you are voiding your device warranty's permanently.
Lovely.
And, somehow "brilliant" idea by Nokians - if any component in N9 turn out to be like famous "USB port broken issue", they won't need to replace anything and listen about how user want phone repaired, not other model as replacement. They will just check (unclearable, without bricking device permanently) records of flashing kernel, and answer "warranty void!".
Of course, "everyone" with N9 will use kernel without "shitegis", so, basically, everyone, who paid insanely ridiculous amount of bucks for this toy, will get it without any warranty.
Just brilliant.
And yes, I'm probably biased, cause even reading about such a nonsense make me somehow sick. Don't get me wrong - I'm glad people are getting closer to jailbreak it, but, honestly, I don't see point. It's like taking generic Android phone, and rebuilding everything from scratch for years (probably), just to get something working "closely" to what N900 offers now (closely, but never at the same level!).
Yea, it's free world. Anyone can go and throw out 500+ bucks, then invest zillions hours of work, just to get it into usable state (instead of contributing something useful, for example, into post-maemo/post-meego community efforts, like Mer) - voiding their warranty in the process. Also, supporting company responsible for all of this, with Your - mentioned earlier - bucks. Yea. Go ahead.
But still, IMO, it's ridiculous pathetic nonsense. It's free world, so everyone can go and buy N9, but at the same time, I'm free to have not-so-good opinion about wisdom of such person, to say at least. Somehow, it's even worse than people going and buying Iphone dumbphones - they at least doesn't have a clue. Seeing people with considerable knowledge and intelligence (!= wisdom), going into such a swamp, is much more sad.
/Estel
And, somehow "brilliant" idea by Nokians - if any component in N9 turn out to be like famous "USB port broken issue", they won't need to replace anything and listen about how user want phone repaired, not other model as replacement. They will just check (unclearable, without bricking device permanently) records of flashing kernel, and answer "warranty void!".
AFAIK, it hasn't yet been determined if there's a write-once hw flag.
If there is there'll be no going back w/o a service center knowing that warranty was voided.
But if there isn't, go back to stock image, & they'll be none-the-wiser.
Cheers.
Isn't a lot of YouTube content also in html5?
It seems that the N9 browser is not supported by the YouTube HTML5 beta trial. I enabled it, then viewed a video, but I still get the same message about requiring Adobe Flash.
Bummer, wonder what that's all about? :(
AFAIK, it hasn't yet been determined if there's a write-once hw flag.
If there is there'll be no going back w/o a service center knowing that warranty was voided.
They've put it into N900, where kernel flashing did not void the warranty. You really believe, that they omitted such a thing in N9, where it *does* void warranty?... Wishful thinking, thats it.
Nokia executives may be idiots, but they engineers aren't, usually.
/Estel
// Edit @ above
Say hello to webkit2 based, but at the same time, closed source browser. Yea, I know N900 also have closed-source stock browser 0 but I see no reasons why they did it again.
Bummer, wonder what that's all about? :(
I imagine that the browser is capable of displaying the content, but as it's a new browser, the user agent will not have been added to the list.
javispedro
2011-10-24, 00:42
You are quoting me, so I'm going to bite...
And, somehow "brilliant" idea by Nokians - if any component in N9 turn out to be like famous "USB port broken issue", they won't need to replace anything and listen about how user want phone repaired, not other model as replacement. They will just check (unclearable, without bricking device permanently) records of flashing kernel, and answer "warranty void!".
Well, we've discussed this a bit and I now think they are doing this for stupid overclocking, which they've previously also officially mentioned that voided the warranty. Though, as a Nokian said on Twitter, so far they do not know of any N900 that was refused to be serviced because of having been overclocking, suggesting in a way that this will still be the case for the N9.
In my home country at least, a generic "your warranty is voided because you fiddled with the kernel" wouldn't stand legally. At most, you would have to assert in a court that your fiddling didn't cause whatever problem you're having. A broken USB port doesn't need much arguing.
Dunno how it will be in some outher countries. Since the N9 is not selling in many countries either way most people probably already start with a void or hard to claim warranty. That is already more of a problem currently IMHO.
And yes, I'm probably biased, cause even reading about such a nonsense make me somehow sick. Don't get me wrong - I'm glad people are getting closer to jailbreak it, but, honestly, I don't see point. It's like taking generic Android phone, and rebuilding everything from scratch for years (probably), just to get something working "closely" to what N900 offers now (closely, but never at the same level!).
Not "jailbreak". My entire crusade is about finding a sanctioned way to freely use the phone -- not about finding a way to "jailbreak" it and getting into a cat and mouse game. If after this crusade we still have to resort to "jailbreaks" I think I'll be getting an iPhone.
Exactly because I also think it would be a waste to dump hours into a system that would offer no benefits. My hope is that this is still not the case.
They've put it into N900, where kernel flashing did not void the warranty. You really believe, that they omitted such a thing in N9, where it *does* void warranty?... Wishful thinking, thats it.
I've put the question to javispedro, if anyone has a definitive answer, he will
http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=33689#post33689
*EDIT*
I looks like he's already noticed you quoting him.
I'm going to return my N9 and stick with my N900. Will I be the first person on this site to do this? I'll post on a separate thread about why once I've done it.
attila77
2011-11-03, 21:05
Lovely.
And, somehow "brilliant" idea by Nokians - if any component in N9 turn out to be like famous "USB port broken issue", they won't need to replace anything and listen about how user want phone repaired, not other model as replacement. They will just check (unclearable, without bricking device permanently) records of flashing kernel, and answer "warranty void!".
IANAL and all, but this is almost certainly not the case. If anything, it's rather to make it clear to people that they are on their own if they put in a random kernel. You know, so that you can't sue Nokia if you get 3rd degree burns from mismanaging the battery or have your emergency calls fail because you did something funky to the kernel or sorts. To assume that this is some elaborate schema to avoid (otherwise perfectly reasonable) replacements sounds to me borderline paranoid, but hey, to each his own.
well, don't have a N9 or N950 to compare, but...
nightly being fennec_8.0~a1_armel.deb
and the other is of course microb...
obviously the score is browser technology based as FF8 on a PC (Linux 2.6.37.6-0.9-desktop x86_64) gets exactly the same score...
thus N9 should get the same result...
still as far as the future of (mobile) WWW goes, N900 still seems to be up to date :D
Discoveryellow
2012-03-02, 21:11
I'm going to return my N9 and stick with my N900. Will I be the first person on this site to do this? I'll post on a separate thread about why once I've done it.
I just got the N9 a few days ago after being tired of all the issues with my N900 and being unhappy with the feature-less E7. I do miss a lot about the N900, including the replaceble batteries (I have a DT-33), hardware keyboard, camera shutter, ctrl+c/ctrl+v copy/paste easy operation, some of the apps, thickness of the device - which made if feel solid, etc.
But N9 is a magical device from the first second! (Minus the dark spots on the screen that all N9's have.) I love the N9
N900 or N9 was such a tough decision for me. At the end, I decided to get a N9 - got one of the last 64GB ones from an e-bay seller for 550$, and a new N900 would have cost me 300-350, which is kinda not a good deal for a 2 year old phone. Don't get me wrong - I know that the N900 is a legend. But maybe I just discovered it too late. And unlike most people here, I don't like HWKB - I do nasty things to my phones, and I've broken so many sliders that I'd rather have a phone with as few moving parts as possible. On the other hand, I hate they way they've crippled the N9 with Aegis and pseudoroot. But I think that for people who can live without a HWKB, N9 could be the successor of the N900 - it just needs some community love. And if it gets at least a fraction of what the N900 got in terms of community suport - It will only get better and better.
Any chance for someone with both a N9 and N900 to make a comparison video? Funnily, there is no such video on youtube. I would love to see a browser head to head.
Discoveryellow
2012-03-17, 17:59
I had both. Now only have N9.
N900 browser supported flash, and also reported itself as a full browser i believe while N9 has no flash and defaults to mobile website version. Otherwise N9 is plainly faster. Also N900 stylus allows for more precise tapping, as well as selecting text to copy.
Otherwise both devices have unreliable OS. I lost all my SMS on both devices randomly for no reason. Should have bought a dumb Symbian or lame but reliable iPhone. ****en hate my choice to give N9 a try after lost all sms today.
4n77r4xX
2012-03-17, 18:34
take a new n900 :P
while N9 has no flash and defaults to mobile website version. , as well as selecting text to copy.
N9 does have FP10.1 now. It's available for Fennec (Firefox) at the Store, as is Fennec.
You're better-off using one of the newer builds of Fennec from Romxa's site though, they're a bit snappier.
Also you can select/copy text in the native browser now (mem might be failing me here don't have phone w/me atm).
On N9 you can default to desktop UA or whatever other UA you want to use w/Fennec + Phony (add-on).
It's also possible to replace grob (N9's native browser) with a grob that has a modified UA of your choice.
N9 is really bad all over. Unibody crap! Meego is ok but nokia can't build phones anymore. If you find a n900. Get it.
Lumiaman
2012-03-17, 19:40
Neither. If you want a reliable phone that does everything with a breeze, go for iphone 4S.
If you want to feel like you are waterboarding, get an N9. My N9 bricked after pr1.2 update, sent it to PALCO and they fixed it. Didnt have any mods, only downloaded apps from the store, go figure. The typing is inferior to iphone 4S, browser is a joke and call quality inferior to iphones (how did NOKIA screw up call quality??). I do like the notification screen that is always on and I do like one in all messaging thread that has gtalk, skype and texts. Will get rid of it to one of my kids if they want it.
My N900 USB port fell out after 2 years of use, and I would be extremely cautious in getting a used N900, as likelihood of getting a unit with defective USB port is close to 20%
I bought a few-month-old N9 64gb a week ago, and so far I am completely content with it. Though I am surely planning to make some tweaks on it in the near future (maybe even develop apps), I still need to have it reliable - haven't bought it as a toy to play with.
I don't get how you people can compare it to Android. On one hand, OK Aegis does limit you, but on the other at least you have some control over the device. No need for whatever account to use it, an access to its root filesystem, a basic terminal, in fact it's easily flashable, lots of opensource code.. those are things which Android doesn't have.
Last month I chose for a brand new (second) N900, which is still available here btw. I leave N9 for what it is.
I intended to have it as a backup phone for when my first one dies. But now I'm bringing two with me every time and play with links between them etc.
What I like very much about the N900 is its stereo speakers, keyboard, ability to design your own desktop, skype facility and ofcourse the stylus. I would recommend to prepare all usb connectors tho! so that only a minimum of force is effectuated upon this connection. If you trim the connectors teeth back I think you should be good to go.
i believe whoever owns N900 and knows how to drive it ,will never accept anything else other than that.it is simply a great device !
after me is better 3 secondhand n900 than one new n9.
Neither. If you want a reliable phone that does everything with a breeze, go for iphone 4S.
If you want to feel like you are waterboarding, get an N9. My N9 bricked after pr1.2 update, sent it to PALCO and they fixed it. Didnt have any mods, only downloaded apps from the store, go figure. The typing is inferior to iphone 4S, browser is a joke and call quality inferior to iphones (how did NOKIA screw up call quality??). I do like the notification screen that is always on and I do like one in all messaging thread that has gtalk, skype and texts. Will get rid of it to one of my kids if they want it.
I'm surprised you didn't suggest a Lumia phone, then again astro-turfing is a subtle art ;)
I call BS on your iP4S claims... I own an iTouch 5G and there's no way the VKB is better.
I don't have the iP4S but a relative does (same carrier), & there's no way his reception's better than my N9.
Nope, cellular reception is amongst the very best out there....
Now if you're talking about WiFi, it is sub-par compared to many smartphones.
It's rumored that it was deliberately weakened much more than cellular, in order to keep radiation levels down.
If true, then hopefully some hacks will soon improve it's performance.
As for your bricking problems, well, simply put you can do more "under the hood" than one can w/iOS (OOTB).
This also means you're much more susceptible to instability issues.
I don't reckon you didn't do any tweaks/hacks, or didn't d'load from external sources.
It's not like you've got any credibility, given your history of posts from almost day one.
I reckon you did, & then forgot (purposefully?) to reset to factory default (& BU ofc) b4 updating.
Stock browser feature-set is bad, but Fennec's improving "lots", & eventually we'll have Gecko w/native UI.
You already said you gave your N9 to one of your kids, loose w/the truth again are we.
@OP
N900's still a great device, I have/use mine. There's no such thing as a phone that's best for everyone.
Everyone has a very different extended set of things that are most important for their day-to-day usage.
Given that, there's no way anyone can tell you which phone is best for you.
Asking people to tell you what to get makes no sense, I don't understand why people start those threads.
I don't see the point in this, but as it's the intent of your thread here's my answer.
If you're someone who doesn't consider themselves technical, & if you're not likely to operate a phone outside the norms of it's stock config*
Then the i4PS or a top-end Android phone is a "no brainer". Especially if the N9's not in you country.
Personally I'd chose an Android, the iP4S was a disappointing leap, but you can't go wrong with either.
WP isn't there yet, it may finally get vaguely interesting with WP8x, but that remains to be seen.
*& by that I don't just mean d'loading/installing apps from the Store!
*EDIT*
I actually just read the original post....
It was posted very soon after the N9 first started becoming widely avail (in some countries).
It was also asking what it's like from a developers POV...
So whoever revived this thread, did so for pointless reasons...
As all the posts since, have been entirely out-of-line with what the OP was actually asking.
The OP's intent wasn't to discuss "the best smartphone", but which is best for dev work, the N900 or N9.
It's already been solidly argued throughout the course of this thread, that the N900's better for dev work.
Things have improved for the N9 in that area since October, but it's still pretty hard to argue it's better.
nokiaboy97
2012-03-18, 18:46
I personally love my N900 and know I will love the N9 as well. I have AT&T and love the ability to use my 'dumb-phone' $10/month unlimited data plan with my Nokia smartphones. My question regarding the N9 is this: can anyone that uses the N9 on AT&T confirm or deny that the N9 is capable of using AT&T's HSPA+ fauxG network? I think I'll buy the phone if I could use it as a Wi-Fi hotspot @ around 14mbps down. If it's plain old 3G, I'll have to pass and may consider the Lumia 800 (despite the lack of front facing cam). Thanks for any help.
I personally love my N900 and know I will love the N9 as well. I have AT&T and love the ability to use my 'dumb-phone' $10/month unlimited data plan with my Nokia smartphones. My question regarding the N9 is this: can anyone that uses the N9 on AT&T confirm or deny that the N9 is capable of using AT&T's HSPA+ fauxG network? I think I'll buy the phone if I could use it as a Wi-Fi hotspot @ around 14mbps down. If it's plain old 3G, I'll have to pass and may consider the Lumia 800 (despite the lack of front facing cam). Thanks for any help.
http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9/
As I recall 800 isn't capable of HSPA+, & some quick searching confirms that:
https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&q=Lumia+800+hspa%2B
http://forums.wpcentral.com/lumia-800/187038.htm
Device specs:
http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/Lumia_800/
http://www.nokia.com/gb-en/products/phone/lumia800/specifications/
More detailed def. of HSDPA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed_Downlink_Packet_Access
And of HSPA+....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_HSPA
IIRC the 900 may be (& there's LTE version coming to some markets), but not the 800.
They're both still quad band too IIRC (not an issue for many).
This isn't the thread to be asking (see OP for focus of this thread), there are AT&T threads.
nokiaboy97
2012-03-18, 19:19
I am familiar with the specs of the device. Technically speaking, the pentaband radio is indeed compatible with AT&T's HSPA+ network, but I'm asking for feedback from people who have used the device on the network, in case they've experienced anything different. I wouldn't want to make such a hefty investment just to return the product.
I am familiar with the specs of the device. Technically speaking, the pentaband radio is indeed compatible with AT&T's HSPA+ network, but I'm asking for feedback from people who have used the device on the network, in case they've experienced anything different. I wouldn't want to make such a hefty investment just to return the product.
It's not capable of HSPA+ (neither is 800), only HSDPA CAT10.
This isn't the thread to be asking (see OP for focus of this thread), there are AT&T specific threads.
In real world terms, no HSPA+ is more minor than it seems, there's been in-depth discussions why.
One I vaguely recall, was in the the "N9: it's finally here" thread.
nokiaboy97
2012-03-18, 19:49
It is not capable of HSPA+ (neither is 800), only HSDPA CAT10.
This isn't the thread to be asking (see OP for focus of this thread), there are AT&T specific threads.
Thank you very much. I must have confused the data speeds and figured they were one in the same. So plain old 1.5 gbps down? Ughkk, deal breaker for me. Thanks again.
Thank you very much. I must have confused the data speeds and figured they were one in the same. So plain old 1.5 gbps down? Ughkk, deal breaker for me. Thanks again.
Certainly not 1.5gbps, have a look at post #79 (since updated).
It's perfectly respectable as far as "3.5G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3.5G)" speeds go.
There's plenty of "augmented 3.5G" & "faux 4G" out there, that in RWT's isn't notably better.
LTE's unquestionably better, but it's only becoming truly efficient on phones arriving now/soon.
nokiaboy97
2012-03-18, 20:02
Well of course not GBPS, I'm just silly--1.5 mbps down. Thanks for the answers, advice and guidance. I'm just dreading true data plan prices but I think I'll have to succumb =/
Well of course not GBPS, I'm just silly--1.5 mbps down. Thanks for the answers, advice and guidance. I'm just dreading true data plan prices but I think I'll have to succumb =/
Well it's capable of much more than 1.5mbps (see post #79), whether or not you'll get that on avg. is another question.
Same for HSPA+, in fact in my experience it's less reliable at higher speeds than HSDPA, even though it does climb markedly higher.*
Some N9 users claim signal strength/stability is really poor, hasn't been my experience at all, WiFi has been pretty ordinary though.
Anyway, any further AT&T specific questions, just post in one of the threads here...
*but you're probably more likely to get higher stable speeds on avg. with it (so long as your carrier supports it well).
Virtuality
2012-03-19, 02:20
Wow! the poll results are surprising. the n900 which is a 2 or maybe 3 years old phone got around a 42 % while the new (beter characteristics) n9 got around 52 %.
It is amazing how loved is the n900.
skykooler
2012-03-19, 13:33
Thanks all.
I haven't looked at this thread for a few weeks, but based on my experience and what you all have said I have decided to get a new n900.
nephridium
2012-03-19, 16:10
Wow! the poll results are surprising. the n900 which is a 2 or maybe 3 years old phone got around a 42 % while the new (beter characteristics) n9 got around 52 %.
It is amazing how loved is the n900.
Imho not that surprising. This is a forum of tinkerers. And unlike all Maemo devices up to the N900, the N9 was designed to be less hackable/extendable, the major culprits being:
Aegis (fortunately there are some promising community efforts)
lack of SD card slot (very useful e.g. when tinkering with different OSes)
no built-in h/w keyboard
not many hardware buttons
no IR or FM transmitter
The seemingly rather small bump in CPU speed, the lack of hardware HD video decoding and only rudimentary use of NFC doesn't help much either.
If they had taken the N900's design, just used a higher res screen (e.g. like the one on the Galaxy Note: 1280x800, multi-touch AND pressure sensitive stylus) and bumped the CPU to dual core (Harmattan is a true multi-threading multi-tasking OS after all) with corresponding GPU I'm quite sure it would have received near 100% in this poll.
Discoveryellow
2012-03-19, 18:17
N9 does have FP10.1 now. It's available for Fennec (Firefox) at the Store, as is Fennec.
You're better-off using one of the newer builds of Fennec from Romxa's site though, they're a bit snappier.
Also you can select/copy text in the native browser now (mem might be failing me here don't have phone w/me atm).
On N9 you can default to desktop UA or whatever other UA you want to use w/Fennec + Phony (add-on).
It's also possible to replace grob (N9's native browser) with a grob that has a modified UA of your choice.
Sounds like a bit of fine tunning for the out of the box device. I am not convinced my N9 browser and lack of the easy selection and copy/paste beats N900. I still however replaced N900 with N9.
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