View Full Version : Nokia on the brink of failure
Lumia means prostitute in Spanish slang. Its a subtle hint at what Nokia has become. How much more evidence do you guys need?
Evidence is all around spilling, just matter of interpretation remains. You can cherry pick data that follows your pre-determined idea (for or against Nokia doesn't matter as evident in few threads)
Worrying is the jump in logic which you also promote, lumia means prostitute therefore Nokia did that with MS. This argument is lacking at best and namecalling (or changin e->f in Nokia's CEO surname) while might gather you some support here changes nothing. Should I link again to the 'analysts' opinions iPhone will be a flop from 2007? How about you bet 100$ on Nokia fail if you feel so strongly sure. Ramblings of tomi ahonen are just the same, got nothing invested gonna cry: Buy houses in 2008. Nokia has money to keep it alive for a couple years at least, if mega-ad-push with apollo doesn't happen, gameover most likely. Name-calling while appealing doesn't change a thing
Everything related to Maemo was pretty much spot on, whether we like to admit it or not, Apple made a great product that only has to evolve every year or so.
Nokia are chasing their tail at the moment.. they still continue to bring out and develop new phones that although mostly have excellent build quality, they lack something. They need to concentrate on just a few products and do it right.
<snip>
It's the small details like that which means it will always come second to their competitors.
Ever since I started using mobile phones I had only Nokia devices from which I got some Nokia "experience". It's not only the so-called Elop effect. Nokia started way earlier to fail.
1. time to market
And ever since I learned of their bad marketing. They always announced a new phone so far in advance that probably not only me didn't buy a chosen device. Instead you waited for the announced to be delivered. Others would have forgotten by the time a phone actually entered the market. Or you would wait for the announcement of the *i version as the original one had some features missing and *i version usually were announced within a year (so did I with the 9300 and the 9300i).
They even did this now in their new alliance. How much time passed between announcing the alliance and announcing the first WP, and then between that and this first device actually entering markets? They tried to be faster this time which was one of the reasons for the quality issues unusual for Nokia (the other being the movement of production to Asia). They even copied a design (N9) to be faster to the market and still were slow.
And back then there was Apple entering that market, announcing a phone and delivering it soon after. This is one of the facts, that made it successful. If Nokia would have done it like Apple, they would have produced that Lumia phones and then announced their alliance with that phone in their hands. Thinking about it, copying the N9 design could have made the camouflage while working on a WP a lot easier.
But now they did it old Nokia style only this time with lots of impact. Having a Lumia in hand while announcing the alliance might have been convincing. Not having one made people think and shudder - even the more making more stupid announcements prior to releasing a WP to markets.
2. abandon visionary ideas before readiness of the markets
Another thing is this. Nokia phones (and maybe others) did have a lot of features way before the smartphone era started. Some got discontinued like the whole S80 line with fax, MS-Office document editing out-of-the-box, pdf-reader, a decent calender with full scheduling support ... Some got reinvented by others under a new name and carriers now charge extra for them. My old 6210 already got what is called tethering today, and I had only to pay gsm traffic, no differentiation between smartphone and notebook traffic. And I was able to use Java programs on my 6310i, I had several programs (like JIMM, FTP, ZIP or games) on my 9300i. Someone had to call them Apps to make this stylish and look like its never been there before.
I have seen the Communicator line end with the 9300i, with E90 and E7 being only a slow tickle after that. And I guess I will see the Linux tablet line end as well with N900 being the last and N9 being an afterglow. Funny thing that at the end of the Communicators the market for smartphone started to bloom, at the end of the Internet Tablets the market for tablets does the same.
So Nokia has always been discontinuing good ideas only to see others reinventing them. And they have had a good hand to end them just at the beginning of their uprise. And they have never pushed their innovative ideas much - I have never heard of a "See we have had a smartphone for a long time before smartphone era. It didn't have a touchscreen thou, but a great hwkb, office functionality and 800x480 screen resolution."
3. too much phones
They did it before, they are doing it again with their Lumia series. They flood the market with too many different phones. Not many wanted to program for S80 because it was a small market (but they didn't make that market bigger), not many wanted to program for S60 because there were too many different phone for which the programs had to be customized (thats the real failure of S60 so far).
Evidence is all around spilling, just matter of interpretation remains. You can cherry pick data that follows your pre-determined idea (for or against Nokia doesn't matter as evident in few threads)
Worrying is the jump in logic which you also promote, lumia means prostitute therefore Nokia did that with MS. This argument is lacking at best and namecalling (or changin e->f in Nokia's CEO surname) while might gather you some support here changes nothing. Should I link again to the 'analysts' opinions iPhone will be a flop from 2007? How about you bet 100$ on Nokia fail if you feel so strongly sure. Ramblings of tomi ahonen are just the same, got nothing invested gonna cry: Buy houses in 2008. Nokia has money to keep it alive for a couple years at least, if mega-ad-push with apollo doesn't happen, gameover most likely. Name-calling while appealing doesn't change a thing
I can't find a shred of evidence that is for Nokia, only against, that can be cherry pick, really I cant. The only thing I see is consistent bad news in messaging and promised green pastures in storytelling. A lot of people agree and have already made that bet otherwise Nokia wouldn't be trading with near junk status. The only positive I see is that Nokias PR has kicked into overdrive with “Messaging and Storytelling” and that it is at least aware of that strategy.
Most likely won't happen, but one thing I need to put here. Everyone is a comfy-chair revolutionist, will shout his ideas for the good of people while not moving his *** from the comfy. How about you throw a molotov? Elop did. Burned himself in the process (as all comfy-chair revolutionistst would, it is easy only from your pov), but he did try to save the brand. Going forward with what was generating losses as most advertise here as best solution would NOT save Nokia. Out of the comfort of your own comfy(or not) chair everyone here is shouting: die mofo. But in fact you are the problem. You killed nokia/maemo... by lacking in numbers. Intelligence of user does not translate into monetary gain. Had you more social/sheepish 1m facebook friends that woiuld buy those devices, WP would never smell Nokia. Fact is 50k of users cannot keep a corp alive, no matter how vocal they are. And Nokia blew millions of users away with beta symbian devices
Most likely won't happen, but one thing I need to put here. Everyone is a comfy-chair revolutionist, will shout his ideas for the good of people while not moving his *** from the comfy. How about you throw a molotov? Elop did. Burned himself in the process (as all comfy-chair revolutionistst would, it is easy only from your pov), but he did try to save the brand. Going forward with what was generating losses as most advertise here as best solution would NOT save Nokia. Out of the comfort of your own comfy(or not) chair everyone here is shouting: die mofo. But in fact you are the problem. You killed nokia/maemo... by lacking in numbers. Intelligence of user does not translate into monetary gain. Had you more social/sheepish 1m facebook friends that woiuld buy those devices, WP would never smell Nokia. Fact is 50k of users cannot keep a corp alive, no matter how vocal they are. And Nokia blew millions of users away with beta symbian devices
This is usually the point in the conversation where someone asks:
"Are you on drugs?"
This is usually the point in the conversation where someone asks:
"Are you on drugs?"
No. Bit drunk I admit though.
But please daperl, say that sticking to Symbian would save Nokia (lets all forget its messy state that was end of Nokia, no for that to happen: BAM, our imagination is better than reality) Add to that image board of investors who do not like their stock declining, no Symbian division general could convince them the **** they ,ushed to prod will turn into awesome product. Here comes Elop... rest is known
But please daperl, say that sticking to Symbian would save Nokia (lets all forget its messy state that was end of Nokia, no for that to happen: BAM, our imagination is better than reality) Add to that image board of investors who do not like their stock declining, no Symbian division general could convince them the **** they ,ushed to prod will turn into awesome product. Here comes Elop... rest is known
Let see if I understand. You're saying that because Nokia wasn't doing so great with symbian (someone could argue that after the launch of the N8 things started going better) they should go ahead and bet everything on one of the most unsuccessful products in the history of software.
Let see if I understand. You're saying that because Nokia wasn't doing so great with symbian (someone could argue that after the launch of the N8 things started going better) they should go ahead and bet everything on one of the most unsuccessful products in the history of software.
No, no, no. He's saying that because Nokia wasn't doing so great with Symbian that they should *announce* to the world that they were going to kill Symbian and MeeGo (so that everyone would stop buying) and move with unilateral exclusivity to one of the most unsuccessful products in the history of software in six months. Pure brilliance.
Yes and no. They bet on not spending resources on R&D in soft (what is Nokia still known for? Awesome snake or rather sturdy handsets?) and using MS for that. Outsourcing coding division as much as hurtful for maemo does make sense in corporate view.
Yes and no. They bet on not spending resources on R&D in soft (what is Nokia still known for? Awesome snake or rather sturdy handsets?) and using MS for that. Outsourcing coding division as much as hurtful for maemo does make sense in corporate view.
Meaning they went into direct competition with HTC and Samsung six months before they had a product to offer and with no counter-OS to mitigate their risk. As a CEO it was an utterly horrendous decision. At the very worst he should have shut his mouth about killing Symbian and MeeGo until they had a WP lineup launched. More responsibly he should have kept Symbian and MeeGo and licensed Android too.
I mean the whole argument is that Nokia were good at hardware not software so why go the unilateral exclusivity route? You only go with a single OS if you think it's the best and you own it outright. If you're expertise is the best hardware than you sell the most by having it work with the most software.
No, no, no. He's saying that because Nokia wasn't doing so great with Symbian that they should *announce* to the world that they were going to kill Symbian and MeeGo (so that everyone would stop buying) and move with unilateral exclusivity to one of the most unsuccessful products in the history of software in six months. Pure brilliance.
It's hilarious as everyone here assumes once they got the news that everybody got the news. Sorry to break it to you, but you are the freak Nokia doesn't give a **** about. Yes you knowledgable person consider yourself a freak. You have close to zero impact on Nokia sales. If not zero in fact. Good luck with that and such reasoning
It's hilarious as everyone here assumes once they got the news that everybody got the news. Sorry to break it to you, but you are the freak Nokia doesn't give a **** about. Yes you knowledgable person consider yourself a freak. You have close to zero impact on Nokia sales. If not zero in fact. Good luck with that and such reasoning
Dude, step away from your keyboard, you don't know what the f*ck you're talking about.
They would be FAR better served by admitting a mistake with the Windows Platform exclusivity and instead dig back into their far more progressive technologies where they were ALREADY ahead of most competitiors--namely Maemo and the tablets. Nokia has already announced they want to make a Windows Mobile tablet. You KNOW this is already a tragic decision.
IMO WP is hell of a lot more suited for the general public than anything Nokia has managed to produce. Symbian Belle is also hell of a lot better than Maemo in that respect.
The N800 is a nice idea, but a poorly executed one. The iPod of the same time was better in almost all respects important for the general public.
Nokia/MS can still make WP competitive, the battle is not lost, but time is running out, and they are trying to sell Lumias as if they could be compared head to head with iPhone and Androids. They have lost focus - again. The focus should solely be to make WP competitive, and this should be done by flooding the market with cheap Lumias, not premium priced Lumias. The L800 is nice, but the value in the hand of mr general public is much lower than a similarly priced Android. The reason for this discrepancy in value is not that WP is a poor OS, or that "people hate MS". The reason is lack of apps - mainly, expensive apps secondly, and the spec-focus on high end Androids (multiple cores, huuuge AMOLED displays etc) together with the "ROM-cult" that has grown around Android. One more thing is starting to rise it's head, updates to WP8. All the Lumias could be outdated within a few months.
Everybody hates MS. Right? Wrong!!! People dislike MS (Windows on PC) because of all the idiosyncrasies and troubles, but ultimately Windows is the OS that is/was perceived as the one that added most value - by far, and it still is. Everybody loves to hate MS, is more correct. The exact same thing can be said about Android today. Everybody loves hating Android because it is nothing but a piece of Google spy ware directly connected to everything you do. Ultimately though, Android injects every phone with Value that people know to appreciate more than they dislike Google.
I have lived long enough to see that marketing and fashion only goes so far. To be a success a device has to add value. Value means different things to different people. The very basic is a fluent and smooth OS, without that there is no chance, and of course the phone basics has to be there. Then, in general, value comes in four chunks: Apps, specs, updates and looks/design.
For instance, comparing the similarly prices L800 and a SGSII. The SGSII lacks somewhat in looks/design but soars in apps, specs and updates (ICS and tons of "ROMs" from devs). The L800 scores in looks/design and that's it. That's the cold hard truth, for every L800 sold, at least 10 SGSII are sold (probably many more). The only way for the L800 to be competitive is to cut the price because the SGSII adds much more value. On top of that apps are more expensive on WP.
Nokia/MS could already be going strong with WP/Lumia, but they lost focus. The L800 could be a best seller if the price was in accordance with the relatively low added value of the device. That would make the ball rolling regarding apps, which in turn would add value etc etc. Instead they lost the entire European market. In the US, the L900 is priced right, but it could be too little too late.
danramos
2012-04-22, 04:50
You're so wrong you're raging hard wrong, Specc. :) The N800 was a good idea that could have been executed better, but it was still executed pretty well for its time--and even in comparison to anything Windows Mobile related, it was BOTH suited better *AND* selling better at the time. Nokia had POTENTIAL with Maemo at the time and then decided to suddenly shift gears and hop up and down and go, 'OOH! OOH! We can be like iPhone too! LOOK! It's a phone!' instead of concentrating on making a better Maemo experience. But NOTHING on the Windows side EVER came close to being good enough for the general public. Microsoft has been at the tablet form factor for WELL OVER 10 years (15?) and STILL failing miserably. :)
heheh.. Windows Mobile 2012 is still Windows Mobile CE 1999 for all it matters. :)
The N800 is a nice idea, but a poorly executed one. The iPod of the same time was better in almost all respects important for the general public.
And we have a winner for:
Dumbest Comparison of the Week
You have close to zero impact on Nokia sales. If not zero in fact. Good luck with that and such reasoning
Just a track record on my impact on Nokia sales for the past 3 years (and they used to get more recommendations from me prior to that):
I bought:
- Two N900s,
- One white N9
- One black 16GB N9 (as a gift)
- One E7 (as a gift)
All of them within months of their release while their ASP was quite high, if not the highest in the recent Nokia history. Further, because of my suggestions to friends & family and direct influence, Nokia got the following sales:
- One C7
- Two E7s
- Two N8s
- One N9
- Four N900s
Granted, Samsung also sold three SGS2s and Apple sold two iPhone 4, one iPad 2 and one iPad 3 due to my suggestions, but Nokia did overwhelmingly better. They lost a couple of Lumia sales along the line, tho, but I really cannot recommend WP7 to anyone (I have an Omnia 7 and I did spend a great deal of time trying to like the WP7 with no success) - people that I would deem the suitable demographics for the WP7 are way better off with the iPhone. Way better off!
Yes, I'm just one person and in the grand scheme of things those sales are truly insignificant, but how many 'tech heads' out there you think there are whom get asked on a regular basis what to buy by their less techy friends & family? And that is not to include my voluntary advocating over the interwebs that might or might influence sales as well. You really think that people like us don't matter for the total sales in the end?
They have lost focus - again. The focus should solely be to make WP competitive, and this should be done by flooding the market with cheap Lumias, not premium priced Lumias.
wp7 handsets have always been dirt cheap, even before the android dual core onslaught. Nice wp7 hardware existed before (omnia 7).
IMO WP is hell of a lot more suited for the general public than anything Nokia has managed to produce.
i wonder why people don't buy it then. I am not saying wp7 is a bad OS, but as the average guy who goes to the store I wouldn't buy a wp7 handset because its so different from what people are used to. Where's the app grid? Whats with all the huge fonts? Where are the homescreens? Widgets? No tabs? Side scrolling instead of drill-down etc..
Even Meego feels more familiar. In addition wp7 is not for the hardcore users out there, it doesn't display enough information (see arstechnica critique), and the multitasking is just too bad for that. Apart from the missing apps of course.
That said, I'm sure those who actually buy it are perfectly satisfied.
And we have a winner for:
Dumbest Comparison of the Week
You talk like you are sitting at the Nokia Board of Directors: Detached from what's going on in the real world. We are Nokia and we are the best because we are Nokia and we are best because.... Please tell the rest of the board that Nokia has to wake up, focus and deliver.
You're so wrong you're raging hard wrong, Specc. :) The N800 was a good idea that could have been executed better, but it was still executed pretty well for its time--and even in comparison to anything Windows Mobile related, it was BOTH suited better *AND* selling better at the time. Nokia had POTENTIAL with Maemo at the time and then decided to suddenly shift gears and hop up and down and go, 'OOH! OOH! We can be like iPhone too! LOOK! It's a phone!' instead of concentrating on making a better Maemo experience. But NOTHING on the Windows side EVER came close to being good enough for the general public. Microsoft has been at the tablet form factor for WELL OVER 10 years (15?) and STILL failing miserably. :)
heheh.. Windows Mobile 2012 is still Windows Mobile CE 1999 for all it matters. :)
The N800 is cluncketiclunk regarding the UI. The N9 is actually nice (except the lagging and poor to no customization possibilities). As a tablet Swipe would work much better than the N800. That is not the problem. The problem is the N9 is not competitive against the Androids or iPhones. It is not even competitive against Symbian Belle. Belle is good, relatively speaking, and the N8 (a two year old phone) is outselling the N9, and so does the E6. You can say that people don't want WP (Lumia), but there is one thing they don't want more, and that's the N9.
Windows CE has never been a complete OS out of the box. It has been a set of libraries and source for anyone to build a OS to their likings. As such it has been extremely popular for all sorts of devices, GPS in particular. There still is very few if any "better" alternative out there for screen-centric devices. Android would probably? work, except it would suck the batteries dry within minutes.
WP is built on a solid core, that's for sure, and it can be seen from the smoothness of the UI. If (correction - when) the prices of Lumia 800/900 come down, I will probably get one. Right now I see no value there for me.
danramos
2012-04-22, 10:14
The N800 is cluncketiclunk regarding the UI.
http://pleco.org/heh/facepalm-galactus.jpg
The N9 is actually nice (except the lagging and poor to no customization possibilities). As a tablet Swipe would work much better than the N800. That is not the problem. The problem is the N9 is not competitive against the Androids or iPhones. It is not even competitive against Symbian Belle. Belle is good, relatively speaking, and the N8 (a two year old phone) is outselling the N9, and so does the E6. You can say that people don't want WP (Lumia), but there is one thing they don't want more, and that's the N9.
Windows CE has never been a complete OS out of the box. It has been a set of libraries and source for anyone to build a OS to their likings. As such it has been extremely popular for all sorts of devices, GPS in particular. There still is very few if any "better" alternative out there for screen-centric devices. Android would probably? work, except it would suck the batteries dry within minutes.
WP is built on a solid core, that's for sure, and it can be seen from the smoothness of the UI. If (correction - when) the prices of Lumia 800/900 come down, I will probably get one. Right now I see no value there for me.
Those were a LOT of words for something that made very little sense in this conversation. As I pointed out, if they had evolved from the N800 and concentrated on the Maemo operating system, they could have evolved this much farther along than even the N9 right now--BY NOW.
Man--you deserve a second one for just how bad you failed to debate a clear thread of conversation:
http://pleco.org/heh/palmface-jesus.jpg
mikecomputing
2012-04-22, 10:15
Not at all. That's the problem... people are unhappy with the decisions so far from Elop.
seriously is people so unhappy as we in this forum? Yes I know americans dont like nokia. But they never has anyway.
but my point is why o earth is this man still CEO if most people is unhappy. Are stockholders totally blind? I am sure this man will be reselected :(
btw. specc about no one want n9: get this into your brain because this has been said before: the reason only geeks buy n9 is because elop killed it before realease. I am sure it could have sold out wp if it had got a chance!! Actually the device has improved alot since release even with low resources behind it.
I guess he is still CEO because the rest of the company is not US style (yet). In that case he would have been out by June or July. Like Leo Apotheker with HP - making dumb announcements got him out pretty fast. Nokia still thinks, that a transition needs time and probably loss, believing Elop is right. So they stick to him for some time longer.
Just a track record on my impact on Nokia sales for the past 3 years (and they used to get more recommendations from me prior to that):
I bought:
- Two N900s,
- One white N9
- One black 16GB N9 (as a gift)
- One E7 (as a gift)
All of them within months of their release while their ASP was quite high, if not the highest in the recent Nokia history. Further, because of my suggestions to friends & family and direct influence, Nokia got the following sales:
- One C7
- Two E7s
- Two N8s
- One N9
- Four N900s
Granted, Samsung also sold three SGS2s and Apple sold two iPhone 4, one iPad 2 and one iPad 3 due to my suggestions, but Nokia did overwhelmingly better. They lost a couple of Lumia sales along the line, tho, but I really cannot recommend WP7 to anyone (I have an Omnia 7 and I did spend a great deal of time trying to like the WP7 with no success) - people that I would deem the suitable demographics for the WP7 are way better off with the iPhone. Way better off!
Yes, I'm just one person and in the grand scheme of things those sales are truly insignificant, but how many 'tech heads' out there you think there are whom get asked on a regular basis what to buy by their less techy friends & family? And that is not to include my voluntary advocating over the interwebs that might or might influence sales as well. You really think that people like us don't matter for the total sales in the end?
Good point, word of mouth marketing does go a long way. Though Nokia's competitors might have worked on that (since over a year those Elop threads do not want to die and by complaining about Nokia's CEO decisions, hope not as vocally as is going on here, womm for Nokia sort of loses credibility)
It's hilarious as everyone here assumes once they got the news that everybody got the news. Sorry to break it to you, but you are the freak Nokia doesn't give a **** about. Yes you knowledgable person consider yourself a freak. You have close to zero impact on Nokia sales. If not zero in fact. Good luck with that and such reasoning
LMAO!
Seriously?
Nokia abandons all current products, lays off thousands and announces they will use MS exclusively and you don't think that was news anyone but techies heard about? I own one business in the US and two in China and my employees on both continents sure heard about it. It made all the Chinese & US news outlets...ostrich much?
Please tell the rest of the board that Nokia has to wake up, focus and deliver.
I thought they already did that. I have a Lumia 800 in my hand as a result. It's a very nice device. And although it doesn't have a front facing camera, it looks and feels better than an iPod and an iPhone, and it's nothing like an n800. Did Nokia do something wrong? If so, is there anything else you would like me to tell the board? But I warn you, they have a habit of not listening to me.
Lumiaman
2012-04-22, 12:54
This is usually the point in the conversation where someone asks:
"Are you on drugs?"
He is spot on
2011 Q1: + 439 million Euros - Announces end of Symbian and Meego WP deal
2011 Q2: - 487 million Euros - only 2nd loss-making quarter in 19 years
2011 Q3: - 151 million Euros (thanks for the cash Microsoft)
2011 Q4: - 755 Million Euros
954 Million Euro loss on 2011
2012 Q1: - 1.3 BILLION loss
Yep. Things are starting to turn. Pretty soon even Sony will be jealous.
Yes and no. They bet on not spending resources on R&D in soft (what is Nokia still known for? Awesome snake or rather sturdy handsets?) and using MS for that. Outsourcing coding division as much as hurtful for maemo does make sense in corporate view.
Outsourcing it as much as I disagree could under some circumstances be a good idea short term. But outsourcing it to microsoft is pure suicide because as we all know every mobile OS they have maid is an utter failure
mikecomputing
2012-04-22, 14:22
2011 Q1: + 439 million Euros - Announces end of Symbian and Meego WP deal
2011 Q2: - 487 million Euros - only 2nd loss-making quarter in 19 years
2011 Q3: - 151 million Euros (thanks for the cash Microsoft)
2011 Q4: - 755 Million Euros
954 Million Euro loss on 2011
2012 Q1: - 1.3 BILLION loss
Yep. Things are starting to turn. Pretty soon even Sony will be jealous.
q1 loss 1.3 billion? No problem, elop soon abandons s40 and meltemi to and fire the team behind it :(
Reviews like this won't help Nokia (see attached picture). The Lumia 900 isn't seen as a special device - but should be one to have the success Nokia expects from it.
A nice design and LTE won't make it superior (for most people LTE doesn't matter anyways). Even though MS/Nokia hopes to sell lots of L900 with the deep price, it could have a negative side effect. A cheap price can also make a product look cheap or make people think it would be cheap quality. I'm really disappointed in how the L900 was brought to the market...or maybe it's just simply the phone which isn't good enough.
The Lumia 900 isn't seen as a special device
We know.
I'm really disappointed in how the L900 was brought to the market...
As are many people on this forum.
..or maybe it's just simply the phone which isn't good enough.
Quite.
Maybe it wasn't a great idea to decide to keep losing money on these handsets until the OS can be made to support the hardware and features that Nokia needs to add?
Or maybe the OS UI/UX isn't quite attractive enough, aesthetically or otherwise? Maybe that hasn't even been identified as a problem?
Or maybe people just don't like the idea of Windows on a mobile phone? Or maybe the next closest user experience to a "modernised alternative to Symbian" is what users wanted and that is not Windows phone (i.e. there is no familiarity or psychological migration or connection for old Nokia users to Windows phone)? Maybe Android is specifically targeted towards this market share and that is why they are currently more successful?
Or maybe Nokia should have only 'added' Windows phone as one of its platforms, to its product offering lineup, keeping its pre-existing strategy, and only fully migrated in future IF the OS is ready and has gained market share/mind share?
Maybe by the time Windows Phone 8 is released, the competition will have moved on and they will still be suffering the 'feature non-competitiveness' that is often picked-up on in reviews?
Maybe.
aironeous
2012-04-22, 17:45
If I knew Elop was going to destroy symbian after a nice UI update in the future I would have never started down the road of Nokia phones buying the N95 8gb and the N8 I would have probably done more research and looked for a Japanese phone or something like that that had a lot of equipment in it.
If I knew Elop was going to end the maemo line in the future right when it got to step 5 and went mainstream. I would have never bought the N810, the N900 and the N9.
If I knew ahead of time a MS trojan horse was going to take the steering wheel of Nokia because he wants to play monopoly with Microsoft and steal our step five design. I would have not considered Nokia at all.
I remember when Android was just an emulator and I downloaded it and was trying it out. I probably would have went that direction and probably will now that Elop has trashed the competing Nokia OS's in favor of a monopolistic driven software company. So I think Elop has achieved the exact opposite of what he claims to be aiming for in public.
Furthermore I really dislike that winblows 7 UI, it looks like a one home screen with big ugly tiles. I don't think I'll like windows late either except the parts that they stole from our maemo interface.
And I do not believe this "we like open source" is sincere http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/openness/default.aspx#home
Maybe by the time Windows Phone 8 is released, the competition will have moved on and they will still be suffering the 'feature non-competitiveness' that is often picked-up on in reviews?
Well, why don't Nokia/MS say SOMETHING about WP8 being available (or not) on the existing Lumias? I take this as a NO with 80 % probability.
Elop is not the problem. Elop is just a bi-product, a sort of inevitable waste or poo that drips from the Nokia Board, like sweat from the crotch of a dirty old drunk in a Finnish sauna.
danramos
2012-04-22, 23:33
Good point, word of mouth marketing does go a long way. Though Nokia's competitors might have worked on that (since over a year those Elop threads do not want to die and by complaining about Nokia's CEO decisions, hope not as vocally as is going on here, womm for Nokia sort of loses credibility)
From Facebook and Google+ reactions (from people I don't know but come across my postings), it looks to me as if there are a LOOOOT of very disappointed people who very much dislike Elop. So, yeah--it looks like it's just a vocal out on the general Internet as it is here, if I'm to go by social network standards.
LMAO!
Seriously?
Nokia abandons all current products, lays off thousands and announces they will use MS exclusively and you don't think that was news anyone but techies heard about? I own one business in the US and two in China and my employees on both continents sure heard about it. It made all the Chinese & US news outlets...ostrich much?
http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/nokia-firing-people.jpg
I thought they already did that. I have a Lumia 800 in my hand as a result. It's a very nice device. And although it doesn't have a front facing camera, it looks and feels better than an iPod and an iPhone, and it's nothing like an n800. Did Nokia do something wrong? If so, is there anything else you would like me to tell the board? But I warn you, they have a habit of not listening to me.
You're asking a very good set of questions! I wish Nokia would ask PRECISELY those questions to the market and to all those increasing number of customers who are NO LONGER buying their products. It would appear they have a habit of not listening to a LOT of far wiser people, too.
He is spot on
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qqJ3Kn8kuTk/ThmiCIEC2wI/AAAAAAAAAw4/2TBHAEhjsWA/s1600/Drunk+Troll+Sign.jpg
Well, why don't Nokia/MS say SOMETHING about WP8 being available (or not) on the existing Lumias? I take this as a NO with 80 % probability.
Elop is not the problem. Elop is just a bi-product, a sort of inevitable waste or poo that drips from the Nokia Board, like sweat from the crotch of a dirty old drunk in a Finnish sauna.
http://www.balloo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Nokia_Sinking_Ship.jpg
You're welcome!
http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Nokia-and-Microsoft-Accelerate-Anti-Apple-Google-Partnership-2.png
danramos
2012-04-22, 23:59
...And Nokia decided to go Windows 8 for their new upcoming tablet. This is going to be a joy to watch as it nosedives RIGHT into the same junkpile the Zune ended up.
Windows 8 tablets: Not open for business (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/networking/windows-8-tablets-not-open-for-business/2261)
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/networking/windows-8-tablets-not-open-for-business/2261
From his Google+ comment about his article:
"You know, I really don't care for Windows 8 much, but as I explained in this story I did see it having one spot where it might shine: On business tablets where Active Directory (AD) support would make it a natural for Windows shops and for companies that are taking a jaundiced view of the whole "bring your own device" (BYOD) movement. Well, guess what MSFT isn't putting in its tablets? AD. "
"Amazing."
Enterprise support on WP7 is somewhat lacking, now no AD on Win8?
Seriously dumb decisions being made right now.
Lumiaman
2012-04-23, 00:24
Enterprise support on WP7 is somewhat lacking, now no AD on Win8?
Seriously dumb decisions being made right now.
How does it differ from iPad? Everything that comes to the market will be compared to iPad
How does it differ from iPad? Everything that comes to the market will be compared to iPad
Perhaps because Microsoft created Active Directory and Microsoft Exchange?
I mean... they (Microsoft) produce enterprise products and they're not there now. They're missing an entire sector, one that Blackberry pretty much still owns and iPads/iPhones now do support.
It's called sales opportunities. WP7 and Win8 tablet will need each and every advantage they can muster over the rapid selling iPhone/iPad.
Lumiaman
2012-04-23, 00:32
That will be a disaster if true. People use tablets in lieu of computers these days.
danramos
2012-04-23, 00:44
How does it differ from iPad? Everything that comes to the market will be compared to iPad
How about simply "not better"? :)
Enterprise support on WP7 is somewhat lacking, now no AD on Win8?
Seriously dumb decisions being made right now.
Sometimes I do wonder, is MS very stupid or very clever. On the one hand I think that their crippled products are a stupidly missed opportunity, on the other I think their crippled products are a calculated move. I've noticed that the things that they're not including are things that threaten their other products. They may be scared of cannibalizing their more lucrative and monopolized business of selling the more expensive laptop/desktop OS. Every feature that I've seen missing/crippled in their phones are features needed for a laptop/desktop replacement. Lack of HDMI out/docking, limited processing power, crippled Office app, no real multitasking no AD. It's as if they don't want to speed up the laptop/desktop replacement until Apple and Android threaten it enough. Sadly it's Nokia that is falling behind because of it.
danramos
2012-04-23, 02:34
Sometimes I do wonder, is MS very stupid or very clever. On the one hand I think that their crippled products are a stupidly missed opportunity, on the other I think their crippled products are a calculated move. I've noticed that the things that they're not including are things that threaten their other products. They may be scared of cannibalizing their more lucrative and monopolized business of selling the more expensive laptop/desktop OS. Every feature that I've seen missing/crippled in their phones are features needed for a laptop/desktop replacement. Lack of HDMI out/docking, limited processing power, crippled Office app, no real multitasking no AD. It's as if they don't want to speed up the laptop/desktop replacement until Apple and Android threaten it enough. Sadly it's Nokia that is falling behind because of it.
Let's also not forget artificial limitations like limiting the number of users that can connect to a remote desktop server, limiting how much RAM a 32-bit system can address (even though Linux 32-bit can address a LOT more RAM and a change of DLL's can make Windows 32-bit address FAR more RAM as well--so it's clearly a designed limitation, and so on and so on. :)
casketizer
2012-04-23, 02:46
I know many people atm see the full blown PCs as a dieing species, but I have to disagree. Even though I myself do most of my home computing tasks on a tablet now I would never want to live without a high powered PC at home. For the forseeable future there are just too many things a tablet can't do. Microsoft would be wiser to focus on their strengths on the desktop market instead of sinking billion after billion into unsuccessful attempts to gain a foothold into the mobile market.
Windows 7 had the genes to be the foundation for a near perfect desktop OS, and instead of using this potential they bastardize it with their metrosexual WP Gui. I have played with both Windows 8 previews and I find them totally unacceptable as a Desktop OS. If the finished W8 will really look like this and lack even a start menu, I and many others will stick with W7. Maybe we are really seeing the beginning of the end of M$.
Sorry for being somewhat off topic. ;)
casketizer
2012-04-23, 02:50
Let's also not forget artificial limitations like limiting the number of users that can connect to a remote desktop server, limiting how much RAM a 32-bit system can address (even though Linux 32-bit can address a LOT more RAM and a change of DLL's can make Windows 32-bit address FAR more RAM as well--so it's clearly a designed limitation, and so on and so on. :)
The limitation of the 32bit Windows Client to 4GB was indeed a design choice. The reason stated for this was legacy 32bit drivers not being compatible. (Source : Windows Internals 5th ed.)
Faustino
2012-04-23, 02:52
I mentioned this before and i'm still convinced this would be the way forward.
Imagine the N9 and the N950 were developed further. Better, bigger screens. Better battery. Top of the line dual or quad core processors and more RAM.
You buy your phone. You take it home. You unbox it.
You connect the USB from your phone to your computer. And Nokia Suite opens.
It asks you one simple question:
Choose your operating system
Android
Windows Phone
MeeGo
Each operating system will be made for the device and will work perfectly. How about that for an ecosystem?
You wanna try windows, you got it. You wanna make sense of Android.. there it is. MeeGo, it's there.
Puts the power of choice back with the consumer and we get to use it on the hardware we all want to use.
Not only that, but people who would normally have gone with Windows or Android would get that exposure to MeeGo that they normally wouldn't.
It would be win win for Nokia, Windows and the Linux community.
I know many people atm see the full blown PCs as a dieing species, but I have to disagree. Even though I myself do most of my home computing tasks on a tablet now I would never want to live without a high powered PC at home. For the forseeable future there are just too many things a tablet can't do. Microsoft would be wiser to focus on their strengths on the desktop market instead of sinking billion after billion into unsuccessful attempts to gain a foothold into the mobile market.
Windows 7 had the genes to be the foundation for a near perfect desktop OS, and instead of using this potential they bastardize it with their metrosexual WP Gui. I have played with both Windows 8 previews and I find them totally unacceptable as a Desktop OS. If the finished W8 will really look like this and lack even a start menu, I and many others will stick with W7. Maybe we are really seeing the beginning of the end of M$.
Sorry for being somewhat off topic. ;)
I foresee touchscreen tablets and phones replacing most laptops and eventually desktops. Not so much serious workstations or even gaming PCs, I think they will always be around, but most of them. MS are not the only ones who are adopting an unpopular touch friendly interface. Ubuntu are actually ahead of MS in adapting their OS UI for touch friendliness. Ubuntu's new Unity UI received the same backlash from those more familiar with regular Gnome. I too dislike it but it has its supporters too.
I mentioned this before and i'm still convinced this would be the way forward.
Imagine the N9 and the N950 were developed further. Better, bigger screens. Better battery. Top of the line dual or quad core processors and more RAM.
You buy your phone. You take it home. You unbox it.
You connect the USB from your phone to your computer. And Nokia Suite opens.
It asks you one simple question:
Choose your operating system
Android
Windows Phone
MeeGo
Each operating system will be made for the device and will work perfectly. How about that for an ecosystem?
You wanna try windows, you got it. You wanna make sense of Android.. there it is. MeeGo, it's there.
Puts the power of choice back with the consumer and we get to use it on the hardware we all want to use.
Not only that, but people who would normally have gone with Windows or Android would get that exposure to MeeGo that they normally wouldn't.
It would be win win for Nokia, Windows and the Linux community.
i.e a carriers worst nightmare.
casketizer
2012-04-23, 03:09
I foresee touchscreen tablets and phones replacing most laptops and eventually desktops. Not so much serious workstations or even gaming PCs, I think they will always be around, but most of them. MS are not the only ones who are adopting an unpopular touch friendly interface. Ubuntu are actually ahead of MS in adapting their OS UI for touch friendliness. Ubuntu's new Unity UI received the same backlash from those more familiar with regular Gnome. I too dislike it but it has its supporters too.
In my experience most people that get a tablet and use it heavily still keep their PC around. This might change when tablets become more powerful and support higher storage capacity. But I don't see this happening anytime soon.
casketizer
2012-04-23, 03:11
i.e a carriers worst nightmare.
Heh, exactly my thoughts on this post too. :)
Faustino
2012-04-23, 03:12
i.e a carriers worst nightmare.
Why?
If each OS is supported properly it shouldn't make a difference. Calls and texts will always be charged the same way.
casketizer
2012-04-23, 03:16
Support Nightmare, and that times three.
Faustino
2012-04-23, 03:18
Support Nightmare, and that times three.
That could be said for any carrier who has Android & Windows Phone in their product range
Why?
If each OS is supported properly it shouldn't make a difference. Calls and texts will always be charged the same way.
Mainly because they would be giving complete control to the OS developers and users if there were no restrictions on what can be installed, they wouldn't like that one bit. Also,they would much rather you buy another handset or renew for their exclusive new phone with its new OS. They would also have to provide support/settings for all handset/OS combinations not just different handsets. The required planning/coordination with both the manufacturers and OS developers would also be a nightmare for the carriers.
I guess if the carriers could control what OS choices and updates you had the option of installing then we might get something like this but I very much doubt they would go through all this trouble for such a thing.
danramos
2012-04-23, 03:44
The limitation of the 32bit Windows Client to 4GB was indeed a design choice. The reason stated for this was legacy 32bit drivers not being compatible. (Source : Windows Internals 5th ed.)
Legacy 32-bit drivers for Windows (XP, Vista, 7), replaced by Windows 2008 32-bit drivers suddenly addressed FAR more than 4GB of RAM. Windows Internals was "technically" correct but ultimately giving the wrong impression, given replacing a single DLL fixes the problem.
Here's a good article write-up on PAE:
http://www.pallab.net/2009/12/30/enable-more-than-4gb-memory-in-windows-vista-7/
From the article:
"Microsoft claims that it is not their fault and is instead a limitation of the 32 bit architecture. At first glance this seems correct. 32 bit processor using 32 bit registers should be only able to address up to 4 GB of RAM (232 = 4G). However, this is not actually true. The main reason being a feature called Physical Address Extension (PAE).
PAE makes it possible to address more than 4 GB of memory using 32 bit registers, since the registers aren’t used to store the physical address. Instead, the registers store linear addresses, which are mapped to physical addresses using the page table. This feature has been available since the days of Intel Pentium Pro. In x86 processors additional address lines are provided so that up to 64 GB can be addressed when using the PAE mode. If you want to learn more about Windows memory addressing, go through Geoff Chappell’s notes.
Windows Vista and 7 have two kernels – one which doesn’t use PAE and one which does. They are NTOSKRNL.EXE and NTKRNLPA.EXE respectively. Both of them reside within the Windows/System32 directory. Can you guess which one you are using? If you have a modern machine, then chances are that Data Execution Prevention (DEP) is enabled in your system and in that case you are already using the kernel with PAE enabled."
And THIS is the company whose products and designs you want running on your phone? Heh.. no wonder why people are staying away.
casketizer
2012-04-23, 03:52
There are a lot of old drivers that make Windows 32bit with PAE and more than 4GB bluescreen. To my eternal disgrace I even wrote on of them for a company that used to be the leader in NICs but is now forgotten.
That is why MS limited it. Even the dll and loader hacks don't help you with those drivers.
Lumiaman
2012-04-23, 12:32
Apollo Nokia phones to be “amazing”
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/03/26/nokia-apollo-phones-to-be-incredible-and-unbelievable-more-harmattan-updates/
Lumiaman
2012-04-23, 12:46
Lumia 800 on China Telecom bestseller list....Wow:
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/04/20/nokia-lumia-800-on-china-telecoms-best-seller-list/
Lumiaman
2012-04-23, 12:49
And here is a reason why Windows phones may succeed in the US. Carriers want competition to iphone:
http://www.marke****ch.com/video/asset/verizon-answer-to-iphone-windows/FA0C07E0-7B62-4E84-8772-EEF903948C2E#!FA0C07E0-7B62-4E84-8772-EEF903948C2E
casketizer
2012-04-23, 12:53
Edit not working for you?
don_falcone
2012-04-23, 13:10
In my experience most people that get a tablet and use it heavily still keep their PC around. This might change when tablets become more powerful and support higher storage capacity. But I don't see this happening anytime soon.
One of the nice things about my big tower is that i can actually rest both my arms on my desk while playing for 4hrs or doing other stuff. Try that with a touchscreen-enabled application, or motion sensitive controllers (a la Kinect).
Villeicht liegt's auch daran das ich einfach mit dem Scheiss nicht aufgewachsen bin, und niemals von mechanischen Tastaturen wechseln wuerde :D
I mentioned this before and i'm still convinced this would be the way forward.
Imagine the N9 and the N950 were developed further. Better, bigger screens. Better battery. Top of the line dual or quad core processors and more RAM.
You buy your phone. You take it home. You unbox it.
You connect the USB from your phone to your computer. And Nokia Suite opens.
It asks you one simple question:
Choose your operating system
Android
Windows Phone
MeeGo
Each operating system will be made for the device and will work perfectly. How about that for an ecosystem?
You wanna try windows, you got it. You wanna make sense of Android.. there it is. MeeGo, it's there.
Puts the power of choice back with the consumer and we get to use it on the hardware we all want to use.
Not only that, but people who would normally have gone with Windows or Android would get that exposure to MeeGo that they normally wouldn't.
It would be win win for Nokia, Windows and the Linux community.
LoL dude as if MS would ever agree to that let alone the carriers
eaglehelang
2012-04-23, 13:35
From Facebook and Google+ reactions (from people I don't know but come across my postings), it looks to me as if there are a LOOOOT of very disappointed people who very much dislike Elop. So, yeah--it looks like it's just a vocal out on the general Internet as it is here, if I'm to go by social network standards.
[/CENTER]
Yup, pretty much the same experience here. Plus disappointed Lumia 800 owners(to a lesser extent L710), online & offline, especially if they are/were Nokia Symbian users. Along the lines of the Pakistan forumer who has bought both the N9 & L800, misses the N9(put in old phone model);)
Apollo Nokia phones to be “amazing”
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/03/26/nokia-apollo-phones-to-be-incredible-and-unbelievable-more-harmattan-updates/
Yea, I have a friend that has a friend that has talked to some guy that said Android is amazing.
Seriously, what is that link supposed to prove?
Apollo won't even come to existing Lumias, so why bother? I thought the Lumia was supposed to be the new an great, but it turns out the Lumia is just a stop gap solution, more like Windows Me or whatever it was called.
I don't find the Lumia all that tempting, but if I'm getting one, at least I will be sure I get the real thing, not something that is obsolete in a few months.
So now Lumia is the new N9, scrapped even before most people know about it.
I remember the old days, back when smartphones were smart. I had three choices; WM, Palm and Symbian. Symbian was King. Palm was the smoothest and quickest. WM was, I don't know exactly, but it was something.
Today I also have three choices: Harmattan, Symbian and Android. Symbian still is king-ish on the right device. Harmattan is a bit undefinable, but OK. Android keeps getting better.
Tomorrow my three choices are: Android, Android and Android.
So while I make up my mind about which Android, I can watch Nokia go down the drain.
What is so great about Apollo? Or to rephrase, what is so bad about WP7?
switch-hitter
2012-04-23, 19:52
Tomorrow my three choices are: Android, Android and Android.
So while I make up my mind about which Android, I can watch Nokia go down the drain.I'm with you there, with MeeGo and Symbian gone Android becomes the best remaining option.
Thankfully, as you rightly say, it does keep getting better.
I'm with you there, with MeeGo and Symbian gone Android becomes the best remaining option.
Thankfully, as you rightly say, it does keep getting better.
The least horrible one if you ask me.I hope for some cool boot to gecko or ubuntu devices but I'm not waiting for much.
mikecomputing
2012-04-23, 21:14
I'm with you there, with MeeGo and Symbian gone Android becomes the best remaining option.
Thankfully, as you rightly say, it does keep getting better.
personally I dont trust microsoft, and I dont trust google. For me its simple: when my n9/n900 dies. I will not replace it until someone comes with an open pltform.
ireally dont get why people trust google?
Lumiaman
2012-04-23, 21:18
I wouldnt trust google either. Never owned Android, never will, nothing appealing there for me.
I wouldnt trust google either. Never owned Android, never will, nothing appealing there for me.
You shouldn't trust Google. The only thing you should trust is that Samsung makes excellent Android phones. That is a fact. My Nexus S was OK, gave it away, miss it.
unknown.obvious
2012-04-23, 21:48
I really don't want say much in this thread but I share this with you:
First I read this:
http://www.wallstreet-online.de/nachricht/4907728-nokia-officially-starts-the-development-of-its-manufacturing-facility-vietnam
then I this:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/23/mystery-skin-disease-kills-19-in-vietnam-who/
No offense, simply posting it.
I really don't want say much in this thread but I share this with you:
First I read this:
http://www.wallstreet-online.de/nachricht/4907728-nokia-officially-starts-the-development-of-its-manufacturing-facility-vietnam
then I this:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/23/mystery-skin-disease-kills-19-in-vietnam-who/
No offense, simply posting it.
And your point is?
unknown.obvious
2012-04-24, 06:55
And your point is?
No point but would you buy a phone made where a ‘Mystery’ disease kills people?
No point but would you buy a phone made where a ‘Mystery’ disease kills people?
Errr, yeah. Better off sticking to products made in china... Oh wait.
danramos
2012-04-24, 08:39
I really don't want say much in this thread but I share this with you:
First I read this:
http://www.wallstreet-online.de/nachricht/4907728-nokia-officially-starts-the-development-of-its-manufacturing-facility-vietnam
then I this:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/23/mystery-skin-disease-kills-19-in-vietnam-who/
No offense, simply posting it.
Errr, yeah. Better off sticking to products made in china... Oh wait.
But... but...
http://financialpostbusiness.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/nokia.jpg?w=620
Well, anyway... we at least know he clearly hates Finland.
http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/nokia-firing-people.jpg
From his Google+ comment about his article:
"You know, I really don't care for Windows 8 much, but as I explained in this story I did see it having one spot where it might shine: On business tablets where Active Directory (AD) support would make it a natural for Windows shops and for companies that are taking a jaundiced view of the whole "bring your own device" (BYOD) movement. Well, guess what MSFT isn't putting in its tablets? AD. "
Looks like Microsoft is taking precautions to avoid letting every other tablet manufacturer get ahead of their offers without paying.
Microsoft adds tablet virtualization license fees in hopes to stall the iPad (http://j.mp/HYvJHG)... and how Microsoft's return is losing subscribers faster than they can add them (http://j.mp/HYwrok) (read: this comeback with WP7 isn't going well)
What a great image:
http://www.readwriteweb.com/files/styles/610_0/public/files/comscore-microsoft-marketshare.gif
eaglehelang
2012-04-24, 13:25
No point but would you buy a phone made where a ‘Mystery’ disease kills people?
China had H1N1 and we're still using their products, including Nokia
What a great image:
http://www.readwriteweb.com/files/styles/610_0/public/files/comscore-microsoft-marketshare.gif
The only thing that is important on that graph is google. All the rest is strictly na and irrelevant. Ios is somewhat relevant though.
Any news about the asus/google tablet?
What a great image:
http://www.readwriteweb.com/files/styles/610_0/public/files/comscore-microsoft-marketshare.gif
That's cheating. WinMobile and WP7 are lumped together under Microsoft. Take out WinMobile and WP7's share will collapse to 2%.
danramos
2012-04-24, 16:32
That's cheating. WinMobile and WP7 are lumped together under Microsoft. Take out WinMobile and WP7's share will collapse to 2%.
You do realize Windows Phone 7 is Windows Mobile, right? Yes--everybody keeps talking about how it's a rewrite but if you bothered to follow along over time you would know very well it's mostly Windows Mobile with some UI work. More importantly, even WITH this so-called cheating, it's still a miserable epic fail.
You do realize Windows Phone 7 is Windows Mobile, right? Yes--everybody keeps talking about how it's a rewrite but if you bothered to follow along over time you would know very well it's mostly Windows Mobile with some UI work. More importantly, even WITH this so-called cheating, it's still a miserable epic fail.
I'd say that the cheating makes it a mega misarable epic fail.
I'd say that the cheating makes it a mega misarable epic fail.Also, see Zune UI
danramos
2012-04-24, 22:05
Nice to see a Nokia FINALLY being used out in publ---oh hey, what's he doing??
http://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/522919_280338408707780_102335509841405_637196_5601 43753_n.jpg
Nice to see a Nokia FINALLY being used out in publ---oh hey, what's he doing??
http://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/522919_280338408707780_102335509841405_637196_5601 43753_n.jpg
Connecting people
That thing will kill folks if it connects.
danramos
2012-04-24, 23:17
Another good subtitle, "HANG ON! I'M SENDING YOU A TEXT MESSAGE!"
You do realize Windows Phone 7 is Windows Mobile, right? Yes--everybody keeps talking about how it's a rewrite but if you bothered to follow along over time you would know very well it's mostly Windows Mobile with some UI work. More importantly, even WITH this so-called cheating, it's still a miserable epic fail.
WP7 has nothing to do with WinMobile. It is a complete redesign by a new team and far less capable and more restrictive than the old WinMobile. Microsoft refused to use any of the WinMobile team in order to have a completely fresh start. This resulted in some strange basic errors and omissions like a master volume control for all functions, wi-fi connection which terminates when it sleeps, no tethering, no multitasking (initially), etc.
danramos
2012-04-25, 00:52
WP7 has nothing to do with WinMobile. It is a complete redesign by a new team and far less capable and more restrictive than the old WinMobile. Microsoft refused to use any of the WinMobile team in order to have a completely fresh start. This resulted in some strange basic errors and omissions like a master volume control for all functions, wi-fi connection which terminates when it sleeps, no tethering, no multitasking (initially), etc.
Not quite. We've been over this topic a few times already in other threads.
"That may very well be the case, but Microsoft's official response on the matter is a little less clear. Basically, they're saying that Windows Phone 7 was built on the latest release of CE 6 (R3, in case you're curious), but that they took it further and "incorporated innovative features and functionality on top of the platform." If we had to guess, what they're trying to say is that the Windows Phone 7 project was started when the Compact 7 kernel was still nothing more than a twinkle in Steve Ballmer's eye, so they took the latest code and started mucking with it to meet their needs. It's entirely possible that the Compact 7 team took that code back and kept working on it to create what would ultimately become what we know as the Compact 7 kernel, but that's not something the company is commenting on. At least, not directly. Anyhow, here's the official verbiage:"
"Windows Phone 7 is based on the Windows Embedded CE kernel – the next generation of the Windows Embedded CE platform will be Windows Embedded Compact 7 when released, and the current version is Windows Embedded CE 6.0 R3. Although Windows Phone 7 was built on the Windows Embedded CE kernel at its core, the Windows Phone team has incorporated innovative features and functionality on top of the platform to develop an OS specifically designed to meet the needs of mobile phone manufacturers."
"Oh, and just a note: based on that statement, you might be wondering how we deduced that they're saying they started with a CE 6 core. Basically, Microsoft is in the midst of changing naming conventions in its Windows Embedded range; the current release of CE is 6 R3, but the full name of the next version is Windows Embedded Compact 7. The company states that "Windows Phone 7 was built on the Windows Embedded CE kernel at its core," so yeah, there you have it."
For further details, you can refer to the Wikipedia article on the Windows Embedded Compact 7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Embedded_Compact_7) and the many details and citatations within that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Embedded_Compact_7
Lumiaman
2012-04-25, 02:09
Forget Android. Just look at Apple doubling its profits:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-apple-earns-20120425,0,2952462.story
Unbelievable. Whatever you want to say about iphone, it has become untouchable. UNTOUCHABLE. Android users eat out your shoes
Lumiaman
2012-04-25, 02:13
And China is dumping Taliban phones for iPhone......
ibrakalifa
2012-04-25, 03:57
http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/994510/80901047.jpgand maemo.org dumping an american idiot right here, :rolleyes:
http://dontdatethatdude.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/american-idiot.gif?w=500
Both of you have taken trolling to new, low levels. Not even entertaining...
ibrakalifa
2012-04-25, 05:56
im talking about lumiaman sir, i hate when he says taliban, sorry, im sorry
danramos
2012-04-25, 08:14
Let us get back on-topic and not forget it:
http://p.bfram.es/nokia-fail-never-do-business-with-microsoft.jpg
Nice to see a Nokia FINALLY being used out in publ---oh hey, what's he doing??
http://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/522919_280338408707780_102335509841405_637196_5601 43753_n.jpg
Oh he's gonna brick that thing.
somedude
2012-04-25, 14:42
Oh he's gonna brick that thing.
no no no, its already a brick he is just flashing it.
hotnikkelz
2012-04-25, 15:31
Not quite. We've been over this topic a few times already in other threads.
"That may very well be the case, but Microsoft's official response on the matter is a little less clear. Basically, they're saying that Windows Phone 7 was built on the latest release of CE 6 (R3, in case you're curious), but that they took it further and "incorporated innovative features and functionality on top of the platform." If we had to guess, what they're trying to say is that the Windows Phone 7 project was started when the Compact 7 kernel was still nothing more than a twinkle in Steve Ballmer's eye, so they took the latest code and started mucking with it to meet their needs. It's entirely possible that the Compact 7 team took that code back and kept working on it to create what would ultimately become what we know as the Compact 7 kernel, but that's not something the company is commenting on. At least, not directly. Anyhow, here's the official verbiage:"
"Windows Phone 7 is based on the Windows Embedded CE kernel – the next generation of the Windows Embedded CE platform will be Windows Embedded Compact 7 when released, and the current version is Windows Embedded CE 6.0 R3. Although Windows Phone 7 was built on the Windows Embedded CE kernel at its core, the Windows Phone team has incorporated innovative features and functionality on top of the platform to develop an OS specifically designed to meet the needs of mobile phone manufacturers."
"Oh, and just a note: based on that statement, you might be wondering how we deduced that they're saying they started with a CE 6 core. Basically, Microsoft is in the midst of changing naming conventions in its Windows Embedded range; the current release of CE is 6 R3, but the full name of the next version is Windows Embedded Compact 7. The company states that "Windows Phone 7 was built on the Windows Embedded CE kernel at its core," so yeah, there you have it."
For further details, you can refer to the Wikipedia article on the Windows Embedded Compact 7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Embedded_Compact_7) and the many details and citatations within that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Embedded_Compact_7
A kernel is just a kernel...
Not that it matters much for end users
http://www.osnews.com/story/25574/Microsoft_Windows_Phone_8_To_Use_NT_Kernelhttp://www.osnews.com/story/25574/Microsoft_Windows_Phone_8_To_Use_NT_Kernel
Is that 'cheating' too? :)
btw what rom and kernel are you using on your galaxy nexus? I've been using AOKP with franco kernel milestone 2 and getting the best I've ever got. Maybe you might have a better combo that I'm willing to check out :D
I just interrupted my slumber to say: lumiaman, you are a dumbshiit.
Infract away!
Lumiaman
2012-04-25, 16:09
I am amazed how much name calling is going on here and no one is banned yet. If I called any of the Taliban here bad names, I be thrown out. Such discrimination.
hey we've got to national stereotypes :) achievement unlocked
mikecomputing
2012-04-25, 16:55
Let us get back on-topic and not forget it:
http://p.bfram.es/nokia-fail-never-do-business-with-microsoft.jpg
With all this bad news you post all the time I figured out this:
You really WANT nokia to fail. Even if the board was replaced.
I am amazed how much name calling is going on here and no one is banned yet. If I called any of the Taliban here bad names, I be thrown out. Such discrimination.+1 Ironic.
Do I need to say any more?
With all this bad news you post all the time I figured out this:
You really WANT nokia to fail. Even if the board was replaced.
I'd have to say that it's probably the opposite. It's how Nokia could go from dominance to failure in such record time. In my lifetime, only Atari comes close to this level of fail in such a rapid time period.
abyzthomas
2012-04-25, 22:27
An interesting article
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/04/25/businessinsidernokia-stephen-elop-k.DTL
don_falcone
2012-04-25, 23:23
...actual source (http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/nokias-windows-phone-bear-hug-is-choking-the-mighty-finn-50007750/?tag=mncol;txt).
Lumiaman
2012-04-25, 23:36
Your mama is on the brink of failure. NOKIA is going strong. Exercising, trimming fat, sweating, getting rid of all the smelly rotten dead wood.
...actual source (http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/nokias-windows-phone-bear-hug-is-choking-the-mighty-finn-50007750/?tag=mncol;txt).
Very interesting.
danramos
2012-04-26, 05:43
btw what rom and kernel are you using on your galaxy nexus? I've been using AOKP with franco kernel milestone 2 and getting the best I've ever got. Maybe you might have a better combo that I'm willing to check out :D
I'm still using stock--I tend to stick with stock on most of my devices until it's absolutely compelling to switch. I've heard a LOT of people love AOKP. Is it really that good? I haven't tried anything else yet either. I'm just not sure that I want to permanently install Clockwork onto my phone yet. VERY tempted, though. Very. :) The stock experience has been incredibly good, just the same.
With all this bad news you post all the time I figured out this:
You really WANT nokia to fail. Even if the board was replaced.
So long as Nokia continues to do stupid things, make terribly products and treat customers badly--absolutely. Isn't that the whole POINT of business? Do well, reap the loyalty. Do badly, suffer the opposite. Duh. You make it sound as if you've discovered something I haven't already been pointing out over and over. heheh
I'd have to say that it's probably the opposite. It's how Nokia could go from dominance to failure in such record time. In my lifetime, only Atari comes close to this level of fail in such a rapid time period.
Absolutely correct. Even though I consider myself a classic Atari fan (still have a LOT of their systems.. and I even registered with them as a third party developer and wrote a bunch of stuff in my teens for their systems), I still had my tousles with the corporate dimwits and our group (The Western Massachusetts Atari Users' Group) once even got into a nice shouting match with Atari's PR guy (Bob Brodie) during an AtariFest for very similarly STUPID decisions the way Nokia is behaving today. Openly and in public, we had a niiiiice argument and Bob even called one of our members an asshole. This was pretty much near the end of Atari Corporation's life but they didn't seem to care about customers--look where it ended them up eventually. :) Hello, Nokia. Did you hear that? Perhaps it's time they tried one of the far more successful strategies their competitors are employing--like supporting customers, listening to what they want to buy and (most importantly) stop making deals with Microsoft. :) I hear that last one is working out GREAT for Samsung lately.
Your mama is on the brink of failure. NOKIA is going strong. Exercising, trimming fat, sweating, getting rid of all the smelly rotten dead wood.
Oh it's sweating alright. :)
ibrakalifa
2012-04-26, 05:50
nokia wake up please, harmattan is the only hope for you (http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9_wins_d_ad_yellow_pencil_design_award-news-4159.php)
don_falcone
2012-04-26, 15:17
Very interesting.
Especially how the (anonymous) commenters largely misread the responses given during the interview:
anonymous 25 April, 2012 19:23
"Android is a less capable offering than a few options that still exist within Nokia"
What rubbish. Android is open source and you can customise anything on that, unlike Windows Phone 7...Get your facts right before posting....
Alan Hart 25 April, 2012 19:37
>> "Android ... [is] certainly not what I would refer to as an open system."
YOU CAN DOWNLOAD THE SOURCE CODE AND BUILD IT YOURSELF!!! Just look at all the custom ROMs that are out there.
EDIT: those two could have come straight from Lubeman:
I dont care if the so called "Finnish profile" will be gone or not. But now they atleast made attractive smartphones. Read the customer reviews of the Lumia 900 on AT&T website.
anonymous 25 April, 2012 23:55
I have to say Williams is talking absolutely rubbish. Symbian had to die, it was way behind its main competitors.
I think in the long run Nokia could have made a smart move teaming up Microsoft, consistently Windows Phone has shown to have the highest satisfaction rating by all smartphone users.
The problem has been a poor marketing campaign by both Microsoft and Nokia, but I do see signs that that is slowly turning (UK Lumia release delayed due USA popularity).
Aaand here's the current winner:
Come on Nokia... open up your thought process... and STOP telling/blaming other platforms capability... Nokia is good at mass market, not smart market... I m victim of N900 (worst OS I've ever seen... even than IE6 for comparison), 7610 (it is in service center more time than in my hands)...
And I m not a Google fan boy... and not at all an Apple fan boy... But I m with community...
Maemo is as open source as Android - not 100% in either case.
And to add, the argument about being open source doesn't exactly help Nokia's position at this moment. At best, it's a petty discussion that derails the main conversation that people should be having... what can Nokia do to turn things around.
Fanboys will say Maemo. It never sold in millions upon millions of devices - otherwise this forum would be bigger and a **** load more active. Think XDA.
Android lovers will say that Android should have been an option. I disagree. They would have been an "android also" developer. HTC isn't exactly setting the world afire with their sales.
Bada lovers will have to hush up. Bada's dead basically.
Tizen lovers... well, asking for patience in this part of the game isn't exactly what's recommended.
WP7 lovers... you're also asking for patience for WP8. Elop's had more than a year, this turn of events are seriously bad for Nokia, nothing is looking good for them. They sold 1 million Lumia 900's you say? They used to sell 5 million N95's at their heyday, more than that on other devices.
Meltemi? Symbian rebooted? All of that requires patience. Nothing immediate can save them. Nothing that we know about.
And sorry... open source immediately won't save them. We've never gotten everything fully open from Nokia.
don_falcone
2012-04-26, 16:12
Open enough is ok with me. And it has to be fully featured, with proper hardware.
Please don't mention that pile of turds a.k.a XDA. I like this place as it is, XDA member have a totally different mindset which is not compatible.
Open enough is ok with me. And it has to be fully featured, with proper hardware.
But the arguments around here are full-blown "it's fully open or bust" at times. Can't say that I stand behind either fully. As long as I can tweak, alter, customize, build, make and/or own/root/manage my device, I might become a fan.
Please don't mention that pile of turds a.k.a XDA. I like this place as it is, XDA member have a totally different mindset which is not compatible.
Their activity is incredible. Attitudes aside, I've gotten more done via information there than here. That's not saying a lot, that's my personal opinion that supports my experience.
First thing they need to do is fire Elop!
Second is get a CEO that is a visionary nut with enough charisma to inspire the remaining Nokia developers, partners and users to have hope.
Then they need to recant on the Windows only strategy. If Ballmer doesn't like that, so be it! If they have to renege on pledges made to Microsoft, so be it! Sure, Windows phone can remain part of the strategy, it has to be at this point. But, they need to realize that, save for a few Windows die-hards, most people do not care for Windows on a phone.
People want:
1) Features
2) Apps
3) Games
Provide that now with whatever OS you can, but do not discourage developers telling them their programs are on a dead end platform.
If possible, come up with a cross platform way of producing those apps. Yes, Qt may be the answer. Force Microsoft to accept a Qt compatibility layer! Then make one for Android!
Realize that the N9 is the best thing they have going for them. Look at the warm reception and scores of praise and accolades it has gotten and build on that. That is a pure Nokia product with potential to compete. It just needs to be let loose and a little love from the marketing department. Promise to continue the development of that platform.
Diversify into non-phone devices! How about some tablets and some simple PDA type devices? Believe me, the market is there.
http://temporaryland.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/a-palm-tx-replacement/
But they need to start with the first step now!
Lumiaman
2012-04-26, 17:52
Especially how the (anonymous) commenters largely misread the responses given during the interview:
EDIT: those two could have come straight from Lubeman:
Aaand here's the current winner:
Welcome to the real world of multiple opinions. Ultimately the numbers will decide who was right or wrong. Nokia only began selling Lumias. The competition is tough, and I dont see them pushing out anything revolutionary. 41MP camera will not do it. Perhaps battery that lasts 10 days could do it. Perhaps a phone that looks like a gel can do it. Imitating iphone, will not do it.
mikecomputing
2012-04-26, 17:52
"Nokia's transition in its Smart Devices from Symbian-based phones to the Windows-based Lumia devices is proving more challenging than expected given that sales of Symbian-based devices are falling off very quickly while Lumia sales are only ramping up slowly," credit ratings agency Moody's noted in a statement after downgrading Nokia's debt. "
Oh really.......
And whom to blame!? Investors should wakeup!!!
hotnikkelz
2012-04-26, 18:21
I'm still using stock--I tend to stick with stock on most of my devices until it's absolutely compelling to switch. I've heard a LOT of people love AOKP. Is it really that good? I haven't tried anything else yet either. I'm just not sure that I want to permanently install Clockwork onto my phone yet. VERY tempted, though. Very. :) The stock experience has been incredibly good, just the same.
I see no reason why you shouldn't. Clockworkmod makes it pretty much impossible to break your phone. You can do full backup and restore.
AOKP is indeed that good. Some very nice customisations and improvements and included. I recommend it fully. I also recommend kernel flashing.
@gerbick
Android would've been the better choice. I am speculating here...but given the popularity of Android and Nokia's strong brand, they have much better chances than HTC. Maybe even more than Samsung especially with their distribution channels.
Nokia had the ability to dabble in Android and still develop MeeGo. One reason apple is so profitable is that it owns its ecosystem. Google (with respect to Android) is far less profitable as they have no hardware and their ecosystem is all over the map. Had MeeGo taken off Nokia would have been in a position closer to Apple's.
Just a thought.
First thing they need to do is fire Elop!
Second is get a CEO that is a visionary nut with enough charisma to inspire the remaining Nokia developers, partners and users to have hope.
Then they need to recant on the Windows only strategy. If Ballmer doesn't like that, so be it! If they have to renege on pledges made to Microsoft, so be it! Sure, Windows phone can remain part of the strategy, it has to be at this point. But, they need to realize that, save for a few Windows die-hards, most people do not care for Windows on a phone.
People want:
1) Features
2) Apps
3) Games
Provide that now with whatever OS you can, but do not discourage developers telling them their programs are on a dead end platform.
If possible, come up with a cross platform way of producing those apps. Yes, Qt may be the answer. Force Microsoft to accept a Qt compatibility layer! Then make one for Android!
Realize that the N9 is the best thing they have going for them. Look at the warm reception and scores of praise and accolades it has gotten and build on that. That is a pure Nokia product with potential to compete. It just needs to be let loose and a little love from the marketing department. Promise to continue the development of that platform.
It would be great if they enact this strategy, though it would take huge courage from the board. Even though the N9 team may have taken up other roles or left the company, ultimately the source code still exists, and is just waiting and ready to be taken up again as a major project. And it is still relevant because it is still the correct foundation to build upon.
Realize that the N9 is the best thing they have going for them. Look at the warm reception and scores of praise and accolades it has gotten and build on that. That is a pure Nokia product with potential to compete. It just needs to be let loose and a little love from the marketing department. Promise to continue the development of that platform.
I know that's the politically correct thing to say here, but the N9 is not the best thing Nokia has going. The N9 is good looking, but it is slow and unresponsive, annoyingly unresponsive way too often. Swipe is a nice idea, but in practice it needs lots of improvements to be really good. A blend of swipe and Belle could be a nice thing.
PureView is currently the best thing Nokia has going. But even though I personally wouldn't mind PureView on Symbian at all, Symbian is a dead end platform in free fall at the moment. It would be better for Nokia to make an Android device with PureView. Just think about it, a top end Android, quad core etc with PureView would be a instant hit.
Nokia is soon to release an Apollo device with PureView. That could be a smash hit, but it could also fail miserably.
I know that's the politically correct thing to say here, but the N9 is not the best thing Nokia has going. The N9 is good looking, but it is slow and unresponsive, annoyingly unresponsive way too often. Swipe is a nice idea, but in practice it needs lots of improvements to be really good. A blend of swipe and Belle could be a nice thing.
PureView is currently the best thing Nokia has going. But even though I personally wouldn't mind PureView on Symbian at all, Symbian is a dead end platform in free fall at the moment. It would be better for Nokia to make an Android device with PureView. Just think about it, a top end Android, quad core etc with PureView would be a instant hit.
Nokia is soon to release an Apollo device with PureView. That could be a smash hit, but it could also fail miserably.
The N9 weather they like it or not it's the best thing Nokia has. PureView is just a camera technology you can't sell phones just on that, it would be a killer feature to an already well established smartphone like the iPhone or the Galaxy but no one is going to by a new coming phone just for Pureview. Symbian is at free fall as android would be at free fall if Larry Page had announced he would be dropping android for win phail. Android or any other OS at the moment can't support pureview Nokia themselves said that a win phail with pureview will come in mid 2013
The N9 weather they like it or not it's the best thing Nokia has.
Best based on what? It's not sales. That's the important deciding factor right now.
PureView is just a camera technology you can't sell phones just on that, it would be a killer feature to an already well established smartphone like the iPhone or the Galaxy but no one is going to by a new coming phone just for Pureview.
I actually have to disagree here. Wimpy cellphone cameras frustrate me sometimes - especially when I don't have my point-and-click camera with me. Too much noise, too little contrast, too washed out. Not that I need high resolution pics to put up on Instagram, but I need a decent camera sometimes.
[Sales t]hat's the important deciding factor right now.
The N9 is best all around device Nokia has by far right now (even though I personally wouldn't trade my N900 for an N9), sales not withstanding. You can't expect a device to sell well when it is being restricted (by orders from Elop himself) from being sold in several markets, when it is talked down as an experimental phone, when it is not advertized, and in many other ways sabotaged. Right?
The N9 is best all around device Nokia has by far right now (even though I personally wouldn't trade my N900 for an N9), sales not withstanding. You can't expect a device to sell well when it is being restricted (by orders from Elop himself) from being sold in several markets, when it is talked down as an experimental phone, when it is not advertized, and in many other ways sabotaged. Right?
In another thread, I stated that Nokia would have to open up the sales to other areas. I failed to state that explicitly here.
And I still am not under the impression that the N9 sold over 2 million - those are Samsung Galaxy S levels and we heard when they did that in so many different press releases. Nokia - under Elop - has tampered the hype and numbers surrounding the N9; the executive board allowed that too at the detriment of Nokia as a whole.
WP7 lovers... you're also asking for patience for WP8. Elop's had more than a year, this turn of events are seriously bad for Nokia, nothing is looking good for them. They sold 1 million Lumia 900's you say? They used to sell 5 million N95's at their heyday, more than that on other devices.
No, Nokia did not sell 1 million Lumia 900. They basically gave the phone away at a loss. This is Elop's strategy of desperation to buy market share. What it does to the bottomline is another matter but Elop can always convince the imbecile Board that Nokia is "in transition".
I know that's the politically correct thing to say here, but the N9 is not the best thing Nokia has going. The N9 is good looking, but it is slow and unresponsive, annoyingly unresponsive way too often. Swipe is a nice idea, but in practice it needs lots of improvements to be really good. A blend of swipe and Belle could be a nice thing.
I'm not getting this "slow and unresponsive" experience you keep saying. My N9 is fluid and smooth even when I multitask many apps. Maybe you should do a device reset, reflash the os or take your N9 to Nokia Care for a check-up. This "slow and unresponsive" experience is very alien to N9. I don't know what your expectations are but have you tried using WP7 beyond the superficial menu scrolling operation? Apps take their time to load and multitasking is a pain.
No, Nokia did not sell 1 million Lumia 900.
I don't believe it either; however without any evidence otherwise, I don't believe how many Nokia N9's have been sold either.
hotnikkelz
2012-04-27, 05:49
I'm not getting this "slow and unresponsive" experience you keep saying. My N9 is fluid and smooth even when I multitask many apps. Maybe you should do a device reset, reflash the os or take your N9 to Nokia Care for a check-up. This "slow and unresponsive" experience is very alien to N9. I don't know what your expectations are but have you tried using WP7 beyond the superficial menu scrolling operation? Apps take their time to load and multitasking is a pain.
Untrue for the most part. N9 has much lag in MANY places. Way more than WP7...and I've tried QUITE a few and it takes longer to open apps as well. Have you even used a WP7 phone???
It is much more responsive and consistently so (much more than n9 at least).....but that is not the issue really....it's capability of the platform.
WP7 is just not as capable, end of story
Please state facts, and don't let your blind hate spread fud.
Best based on what? It's not sales. That's the important deciding factor right now.
Did you see Tomi's estimates for Q1 N9 vs Lumia (http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/04/who-wants-numbers-lumia-on-t-mobile-lumia-800-vs-lumia-710-how-many-nokia-n9.html) ?
Did you see Tomi's estimates for Q1 N9 vs Lumia (http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/04/who-wants-numbers-lumia-on-t-mobile-lumia-800-vs-lumia-710-how-many-nokia-n9.html) ?
Hadn't seen that, but that smacks of too much estimation than it does concrete, authentic numbers.
That's my current problem. It's not to say that what he says doesn't have merit; but until those numbers come from Nokia - or even from their quarterly reports - then I have to err on the side of caution and say that I cannot fully trust those numbers.
Not fully. But thanks for pointing that out.
eaglehelang
2012-04-27, 06:34
I don't believe it either; however without any evidence otherwise, I don't believe how many Nokia N9's have been sold either.
Problem is Nokia didnt release sales figures for n9. But 1 million plus is the figure some sites come up with, gathering from shipments info released. I dont bellieve n9 sold 2 million in total due to limited and restricted release, esp 64GB. If the variant is sold out and they are not making any more of it, how would it sell more?
Lumia 900 selling 1 million?? Nokia & WP that popular in US? If they mean target to be achieved for lumia 900 is 1 million then maybe
Lumiaman
2012-04-27, 07:13
here i am in the states, travelling to LA and amazed how many people have iPhones. And i try to multitask my N9, and its laggy and stuttering and my Nokia drive has constant issues connecting to GPS. And i had none of these problems with iphone. Swipe is nice, but.that is it. It can not compete. Its.pathetic that next maemo itinerarion is not.smoother than n900. N9 is not a saviour. Its a dead end, and sales show it.
danramos
2012-04-27, 09:03
Problem is Nokia didnt release sales figures for n9. But 1 million plus is the figure some sites come up with, gathering from shipments info released. I dont bellieve n9 sold 2 million in total due to limited and restricted release, esp 64GB. If the variant is sold out and they are not making any more of it, how would it sell more?
Lumia 900 selling 1 million?? Nokia & WP that popular in US? If they mran target to be achieved for lumia 900 is 1 million then maybe
Didn't everybody cry foul when SOOOMEONNNNE kept talking about how Nokia was going to severely limit the number of N9's produced? :) Just saying--I'm experiencing some form of deja-vu, here.
I'm not getting this "slow and unresponsive" experience you keep saying. My N9 is fluid and smooth even when I multitask many apps.
Same here.
jleholeho
2012-04-27, 10:29
here i am in the states, travelling to LA and amazed how many people have iPhones. And i try to multitask my N9, and its laggy and stuttering and my Nokia drive has constant issues connecting to GPS. And i had none of these problems with iphone. Swipe is nice, but.that is it. It can not compete. Its.pathetic that next maemo itinerarion is not.smoother than n900. N9 is not a saviour. Its a dead end, and sales show it.
Though I´m still pretty happy with my N9, I must admit a VAST MAJORITY of people I see on the streets, at the airports, in the clubs or elsewhere here in the EU (SK, CZ, DK, Belgium, AT, London...these are just places I´ve recently been) have iPhones...
It´s simply like that...
the iPhone 4 and 4s are definitely the most frequently seen cell phones around here...
edit: not to forget, though, that my brand new, full warranty N9 cost me some 295 EUR whereas brand new iPhone 4s can be had for some 490 EUR minimum...so you basically can´t even compare the two...
here i am in the states, travelling to LA and amazed how many people have iPhones. And i try to multitask my N9, and its laggy and stuttering and my Nokia drive has constant issues connecting to GPS. And i had none of these problems with iphone. Swipe is nice, but.that is it. It can not compete. Its.pathetic that next maemo itinerarion is not.smoother than n900. N9 is not a saviour. Its a dead end, and sales show it.
Was about 2 weeks in the states too, using N9 Navigation constantly without any lags and stuttering or any GPS connection problems.
I wouldn't even want to compare iPhone maps service with the one of N9 because I couldn't even use the iOS one in a foreign country (i was for 3 years with iPhones before I switched to N9). Oh yeah forgot to say there isn't even a good navigation software for iOS (next to the expensive TomTom and Garmin stuff).
To all those people here who have those "terrible" lags - idk what y'all did with your phones, but I recommend to use Nokia Care or fully reset your phones.
Maybe you are still on PR 1.0 which, to be honest, had some laggy moments ;) But every new OS needs some time (and Nokia even more)...
Didn't everybody cry foul when SOOOMEONNNNE kept talking about how Nokia was going to severely limit the number of N9's produced? :) Just saying--I'm experiencing some form of deja-vu, here.
Yes and don't even get me started on the N950......
To this date I see now reason to change from my N900, I want a hardware keyboard not just a single slab touchscreen. So there's no Nokia out there for me. N9, shiny and all, is still just a single slab without a keyboard.
Once the N900 finally dies somewhere far down the road it'll likely be replaced by a Android device.
abyzthomas
2012-04-27, 11:14
Was about 2 weeks in the states too, using N9 Navigation constantly without any lags and stuttering or any GPS connection problems.
I wouldn't even want to compare iPhone maps service with the one of N9 because I couldn't even use the iOS one in a foreign country (i was for 3 years with iPhones before I switched to N9). Oh yeah forgot to say there isn't even a good navigation software for iOS (next to the expensive TomTom and Garmin stuff).
To all those people here who have those "terrible" lags - idk what y'all did with your phones, but I recommend to use Nokia Care or fully reset your phones.
Maybe you are still on PR 1.0 which, to be honest, had some laggy moments ;) But every new OS needs some time (and Nokia even more)...
I have been using N9 in USA, on T-Mobile, since I bought it several months ago. I have traveled to several states in USA in the past few months and no issues.
I have dedicated navigation systems (Garmin & TomTom) for my cars. Interestingly, N9 Drive is more accurate than both of those dedicated systems, especially with the new update with street names. GPS on iPhone is not usable, period, unless you pay a ton of money and buy a real navigation app.
I have no issue with GPS lock on my N9.
I do experience lagging on my phone, especially checking IMAP email. I have couple accounts setup. It is still a little better than iPhone 3GS and 4, I owned previously. I have not used iPhone 4S. I can probably fix it by re-flashing, but it has not been a big enough issue for me.
Regarding seeing iPhone everywhere. Yes, you are right. I see iPhone everywhere. I see Toyota Corolla everywhere also. I don't like to drive Corolla because everyone else has it. iPhone is like Corolla, everyone has it. It is too boring.
I don't like to do the same thing that everyone does just because some corporation markets it as the greatest invention and the fan boys start dancing.
I bought my N9 because of my love to openness in software development. I know it is not completely open source, but it is pretty close. I also agree that there is a lot of room for improvement, but N9 is the best one out there and is a great start. If they continue to update it (hopefully), it will become better.
hotnikkelz
2012-04-27, 11:26
The deal break for me with the n9 was it's VERY finnicky connection with wireless n network. It couldn't hold it at all, very aggressive to disconnect, I couldn't resolve that issue at all. Prettiest phone I ever had (white 64 gb), and most dissappointed in its inconsistency
Though I´m still pretty happy with my N9, I must admit a VAST MAJORITY of people I see on the streets, at the airports, in the clubs or elsewhere here in the EU (SK, CZ, DK, Belgium, AT, London...these are just places I´ve recently been) have iPhones...
When I drive around I see many, many Hyudai Elantras. That doesn't mean I'm going to trade my 370Z Roadster in for one. :)
Also, I've had no problems with either GPS or Wifi on my N9 (clean flashed to PR1.2).
The deal break for me with the n9 was it's VERY finnicky connection with wireless n network. It couldn't hold it at all, very aggressive to disconnect, I couldn't resolve that issue at all. Prettiest phone I ever had (white 64 gb), and most dissappointed in its inconsistency
I don't wanna be the "for-me-everything-works-fine-guy", especially because I also had some problems with the N9 before PR 1.2 (the famous accounts-problem). And I know very well to that the N9 isn't perfect - but which which phone is it?
But again, I'm not aware those WiFi issues and had just one person asking over Twitter about this problem (which seems to be solved now)
It's true that the WiFi reception is better on iPhone than on N9. But that's only noticeable if you are on a really weak WiFi signal. So if the iPhone gets disconnected 1time, it might happen 2 times to the N9. But I experienced that one time so far in a cheap hotel with a even "cheaper" wireless signal.
Otherwise it works very well, recognizing and connecting automatically to every WiFi signal I use regularly. It's always a help to long-press an available signal and choose "Use automatically", this way the phone will re-connect incase connection breaks. At my work-place my phone sometimes looses signal, but same happens to my notebook... so I don't count that one ;)
A "connection-killer" is Power-Saver-Mode and lots of users don't really understand what PSM does. But it stops any internet connection and forgets WiFi signals which are not set to automatic-connection. So PSM and WiFi is never a good combination...
eaglehelang
2012-04-27, 14:54
The deal break for me with the n9 was it's VERY finnicky connection with wireless n network. It couldn't hold it at all, very aggressive to disconnect, I couldn't resolve that issue at all. Prettiest phone I ever had (white 64 gb), and most dissappointed in its inconsistency
No problems at all whether it's WIFI or 3G. Had my N9 since launch, Oct/Nov. N9's wifi detection is weaker than some other Nokia devices I have but hardly any disconnection, from PR 1.0 to 1.2.
3G, it could connect up in the hills,rural areas, as long as my service provider has coverage, which it does.
It does sound like you were using it in Power Save Mode where it keep asking whether to connect
eaglehelang
2012-04-27, 15:04
Didn't everybody cry foul when SOOOMEONNNNE kept talking about how Nokia was going to severely limit the number of N9's produced? :) Just saying--I'm experiencing some form of deja-vu, here.
The 64GB(black only, white is not released here) is sold out in many states in my country. From launch date, the salespeople already specified 64GB is limited in units.
So, we, are actually experiencing the "..limit the number of N9's produced" part.;);)
eaglehelang
2012-04-27, 15:13
Untrue for the most part. N9 has much lag in MANY places. Way more than WP7...and I've tried QUITE a few and it takes longer to open apps as well. Have you even used a WP7 phone???
It is much more responsive and consistently so (much more than n9 at least).....but that is not the issue really....it's capability of the platform.
WP7 is just not as capable, end of story
Please state facts, and don't let your blind hate spread fud.
I dont experience the frequent lags you mention on my N9. It could be because yours is set to fetch updates every 30 min? Hence the frequent lags?
And if not mistaken, SamGan has used a Lumia 800 before. The 900 has only been released in US at the moment
Lumiaman
2012-04-27, 15:13
Was about 2 weeks in the states too, using N9 Navigation constantly without any lags and stuttering or any GPS connection problems.
I wouldn't even want to compare iPhone maps service with the one of N9 because I couldn't even use the iOS one in a foreign country (i was for 3 years with iPhones before I switched to N9). Oh yeah forgot to say there isn't even a good navigation software for iOS (next to the expensive TomTom and Garmin stuff).
To all those people here who have those "terrible" lags - idk what y'all did with your phones, but I recommend to use Nokia Care or fully reset your phones.
Maybe you are still on PR 1.0 which, to be honest, had some laggy moments ;) But every new OS needs some time (and Nokia even more)...
i have 4 of them now. 2 from China and two from Finland. All 4 are laggy and stutter. If i have a problem, then Nokia has some serious quality control issues.
all of this is clearly relative, as I compare it to iPhone and lumias. Those two are.the definition of perfect.smoothness and little lagginess.
ibrakalifa
2012-04-27, 15:14
i can confirm if indonesia has out of stock, n9 is only one left on gallery nokia solo, cyan one
panjgoori
2012-04-27, 16:37
i have 4 of them now. 2 from China and two from Finland. All 4 are laggy and stutter. If i have a problem, then Nokia has some serious quality control issues.
all of this is clearly relative, as I compare it to iPhone and lumias. Those two are.the definition of perfect.smoothness and little lagginess.
previously you told us that you have 2 of them and now 4 ??? if its laggy and you don't even like it then why you are buying more and more ? sell them and buy lumia's.
and still you will think that WP is best for Nokia. See Samsung today took over Nokia in handset sales. its now top mobile phone maker in world but still idiots at Nokia board of directors thinks that its right path for Nokia to recover. Really a sad news for me. :(:(:(:(:(
http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2012/04/27/samsung-tops-nokia-as-worlds-biggest-handset-maker/
switch-hitter
2012-04-27, 17:00
It's true that the WiFi reception is better on iPhone than on N9. But that's only noticeable if you are on a really weak WiFi signal. So if the iPhone gets disconnected 1time, it might happen 2 times to the N9.My iPhone 3G had issues with WiFi, if you connected to WiFi then went out of range when you came back into range it couldn't reconnect without a complete reboot.
Having been used to Symbian I couldn't believe it was up to me to turn the WiFi on and off either, I was used to the phone being smart enough to know when the connection was required and turning it off when it wasn't.
Lumiaman
2012-04-27, 17:14
previously you told us that you have 2 of them and now 4 ??? if its laggy and you don't even like it then why you are buying more and more ? sell them and buy lumia's.
and still you will think that WP is best for Nokia. See Samsung today took over Nokia in handset sales. its now top mobile phone maker in world but still idiots at Nokia board of directors thinks that its right path for Nokia to recover. Really a sad news for me. :(:(:(:(:(
http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2012/04/27/samsung-tops-nokia-as-worlds-biggest-handset-maker/
do you read English. I said now. Bought a black one and my son returned his cyan because it is freezing on him constantly. I gave him an old iphone 3GS. A young man needs something reliable in his life.
switch-hitter
2012-04-27, 17:45
A young man needs something reliable in his life.A young man needs to be able to bluetooth porn to his mates in the pub.
mikecomputing
2012-04-27, 17:57
previously you told us that you have 2 of them and now 4 ??? if its laggy and you don't even like it then why you are buying more and more ? sell them and buy lumia's.
and still you will think that WP is best for Nokia. See Samsung today took over Nokia in handset sales. its now top mobile phone maker in world but still idiots at Nokia board of directors thinks that its right path for Nokia to recover. Really a sad news for me. :(:(:(:(:(
http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2012/04/27/samsung-tops-nokia-as-worlds-biggest-handset-maker/
Please dont reply that joke. Makes me angry everytime I see lumiaman quotes. (He is in my ignore list)
Read somewhere that Nokia's BoD and many of it's larger shareholders are also Microsoft shareholders. Tanking Nokia to boost Microsoft shares might actually be quite profitable.
hotnikkelz
2012-04-27, 22:45
The wireless problem is specific to wireless N which my router is using.
See this thread
http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/t5/Maemo-and-MeeGo-Devices/N9-Wi-Fi-internet-connectivity-problem/td-p/1189865
No i didn't use 30 min fetching only manual.
The lag isn't my only problems though, I just stated a few. The accounts issue was horrific, as well as my exchange syncing. 720p video playback was sketchy. Choppy browsing etc.
Anyway did not come in here to bash N9 but to point out misinofrmation that's being spread.
Lumiaman
2012-04-28, 00:05
Please dont reply that joke. Makes me angry everytime I see lumiaman quotes. (He is in my ignore list)
I hope the door didn't hit you on your way out
Lumiaman
2012-04-28, 00:07
who cares if Samsung overtook Nokia. Nokia needs to focus on quality and service. Selling large numbers of outdated phones is nothing to brag about.
danramos
2012-04-28, 06:15
I see Nokia stock has managed to ONLY go down three cents over the past week. (https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1335593435799&chddm=1955&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NYSE:NOK&ntsp=0) Maybe it's finally stabilized to its new true price. 'Course, if it remains less than $5 per share for much longer, it's going to be under threat of being de-listed from the exchange and relegated to the penny stocks markets.
PROOF! You CAN reach your goals!
http://tctechcrunch.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/shipment-fail.png?w=640
eaglehelang
2012-04-28, 06:21
The wireless problem is specific to wireless N which my router is using.
See this thread
http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/t5/Maemo-and-MeeGo-Devices/N9-Wi-Fi-internet-connectivity-problem/td-p/1189865
No i didn't use 30 min fetching only manual.
The lag isn't my only problems though, I just stated a few. The accounts issue was horrific, as well as my exchange syncing. 720p video playback was sketchy. Choppy browsing etc.
Anyway did not come in here to bash N9 but to point out misinofrmation that's being spread.
Its not so much as misinformation but different experiences in different...countries. The n9 owners in the Malaysia forums only have lag issues if its set to 30 min auto update. Other than one or 2 sim tray problem, smooth to use.
So far,(more than 10 yrs)nokia devices always work fine in call and internet connection.
Lumiaman
2012-04-28, 14:03
Its not so much as misinformation but different experiences in different...countries. The n9 owners in the Malaysia forums only have lag issues if its set to 30 min auto update. Other than one or 2 sim tray problem, smooth to use.
So far,(more than 10 yrs)nokia devices always work fine in call and internet connection.
It also depends what you use as your standard for comparison. If the standard is another Nokia phone then you probably right that people feel no problems. But if you compare with iPhone or Lumia, the difference in smoothness and lagginess are as clear as.day and night. N9 is a nice try, and despite the fact that i like it and have several in my possession, it lacks the basics of modern UIs, smoothness, lack of stuttering and seamless transitions.
Lumiaman
2012-04-28, 14:07
and the coarse N9 UI, tells me that not enough time was put into perfecting fee necessary details. and it has nothing to do with Elop. N900 was released in 2009. Any forward thinking company would have had N9 on the drawing board by 2008, plenty of time to transition to a smooth device by 2011.
Lumiaman
2012-04-28, 14:35
Its not so much as misinformation but different experiences in different...countries. The n9 owners in the Malaysia forums only have lag issues if its set to 30 min auto update. Other than one or 2 sim tray problem, smooth to use.
So far,(more than 10 yrs)nokia devices always work fine in call and internet connection.
It also depends what you use as your standard for comparison. If the standard is another Nokia phone then you probably right that people feel no problems. But if you compare with iPhone or Lumia, the difference in smoothness and lagginess are as clear as.day and night. N9 is a nice try, and despite the fact that i like it and have several in my possession, it lacks the basics of modern UIs, smoothness, lack of stuttering and seamless transitions.
It also depends what you use as your standard for comparison. If the standard is another Nokia phone then you probably right that people feel no problems. But if you compare with iPhone or Lumia, the difference in smoothness and lagginess are as clear as.day and night. N9 is a nice try, and despite the fact that i like it and have several in my possession, it lacks the basics of modern UIs, smoothness, lack of stuttering and seamless transitions.
Swore to never write in cancer threads again, but...
lacks basics of modern UIs??????????????
ffs Lumiaman, if by modern you mean screens with icons from iPhone/droid... sure, but modern does not equal good in this sense.
N9 IS the modern UI, elegant, easy and quick. Forget the lower left back button of WP, this is a PITA to use. All thumb-controlled, you cannot get much user-friendlier than that.
Its not so much as misinformation but different experiences in different...countries. The n9 owners in the Malaysia forums only have lag issues if its set to 30 min auto update. Other than one or 2 sim tray problem, smooth to use.
So far,(more than 10 yrs)nokia devices always work fine in call and internet connection.
People are having legitimate complaints in every country and for each build (Chinese or Finnish) that I've seen so far.
Blaming it on a particular country... folly at best. I have a Chinese built Australian version N9 and I have an Finnish built Dubai N9. They both have lag when updating the messages (be it email, Twitter or news feed) and that's before I had used N9 Quick Tweak.
Lag exists. It's not as bad as some folks are saying, but it's there on certain tasks or certain things.
People are having legitimate complaints in every country and for each build (Chinese or Finnish) that I've seen so far.
Blaming it on a particular country... folly at best. I have a Chinese built Australian version N9 and I have an Finnish built Dubai N9. They both have lag when updating the messages (be it email, Twitter or news feed) and that's before I had used N9 Quick Tweak.
Lag exists. It's not as bad as some folks are saying, but it's there on certain tasks or certain things.
I've found that lag is due to twitter caching so much. QAD Cleaner or cache cleaner makes a huge difference.
eaglehelang
2012-04-30, 06:46
People are having legitimate complaints in every country and for each build (Chinese or Finnish) that I've seen so far.
Blaming it on a particular country... folly at best. I have a Chinese built Australian version N9 and I have an Finnish built Dubai N9. They both have lag when updating the messages (be it email, Twitter or news feed) and that's before I had used N9 Quick Tweak.
Lag exists. It's not as bad as some folks are saying, but it's there on certain tasks or certain things.
The other poster was saying N9 is very laggy, as in super laggy. Plus most of the owners in this forum are from US, where n9 is not officially released. I noticed US owners here had the most problems,even some that I hv never heard or experience before in many yrs owning Nokia devices. I'm saying it could be certain settings. Or regular user who dunno that n9 does multitasking.
Sure there is lag but not like cannot load webpages or open apps for 5 min. If N9 performance they complain lagging,dunno what they will say abt n8 or c7 before Belle. Aft listening to so many ppl comments, lag is up to one's experience. I hv had friends with Samsung S2 who complain its lagging, which I find weird as S2 is dual core.
Read these forums. It's not just US owners having probs. Read the (when you could actually still submit to it) error and bug reports.
Not solely from Americans owners either.
Point the finger as much as you wish based off of your incredibly limited exposure to N9 owners with issues; you are as myopic and disillusioned as the person you were commenting about.
eaglehelang
2012-04-30, 11:13
Pls take note it's in terms of percentage, where got I say it's solely US owners? From the polls in this forum, the US owners are either the highest number or 2nd highest. So, the higher percentage of those having problems will naturally be the US owners. I thought this is already naturally understood, at least in the other international forums I go to they do, perhaps they are used to Asian lingo of English
Pls dont think/get sensitive that we just simply shoot at US owners. That person got angry(in Asian context that's getting angry) when the other Msian replied. And make it sound like 95% of N9 owners have that long list of issues, aiyoo.
I do read the n9 section in Nokia Support Discussions regularly. And do actual market study on consumer products.
hotnikkelz
2012-04-30, 13:16
I think in general most of the people who own an n9 and are on these forums are VERY forgiving....maybe it's just a love of open source, or the nostalgia of the n900 has still got them enchanted but this phone has MANY MANY problems. Lag is the least of the worries with it I think I've mentioned before.
These days I have no patience for products that don't 'just work' the n9 is one of those to me. I'm happy for those that haven't encountered problems, that's great to hear.
I do think it ironic when ppl on here hate on android then are all excited when ICS gets ported. Just get an android, it's the best...by far
The N9 has some problems, however I think those are mostly the result of a lack of commitment from nokia. For example the update 1.1 as well as 1.2 introduced some really nasty bugs, which would not have happened if the developers had enough manpower to properly test their releases. IMO it clearly shows the n9 is not at the center of nokia's smartphone strategy right now.
I'm sure the developers working on N9 updates are doing a great job considering the situation they are in.
Lumiaman
2012-04-30, 23:33
Pls take note it's in terms of percentage, where got I say it's solely US owners? From the polls in this forum, the US owners are either the highest number or 2nd highest. So, the higher percentage of those having problems will naturally be the US owners. I thought this is already naturally understood, at least in the other international forums I go to they do, perhaps they are used to Asian lingo of English
Pls dont think/get sensitive that we just simply shoot at US owners. That person got angry(in Asian context that's getting angry) when the other Msian replied. And make it sound like 95% of N9 owners have that long list of issues, aiyoo.
I do read the n9 section in Nokia Support Discussions regularly. And do actual market study on consumer products.
wherever you may be, the reason Americans complain is because they are very discriminating consumers. They demand perfection. This demand for perfection led to rise of iPhone and Android. Nokia was abusing the third world with their inferior products for way too long. But the world likes American perfection, hence so many iphone and Android users all over the world. Now you understand.
wherever you may be, the reason Americans complain is because they are very discriminating consumers. They demand perfection. This demand for perfection led to rise of iPhone and Android. Nokia was abusing the third world with their inferior products for way too long. But the world likes American perfection, hence so many iphone and Android users all over the world. Now you understand.
There's perfection and there's the illusion of perfection. What's better in your opinion a phone that does 5-6 things very well or a phone that will do anything you throw at it? Your igoldencage is still a cage and android is far from being perfect or else people wouldn't make a ****load of costum roms. So please please stop spamming and go eat at McDonalds and get a taste of american pefrection.
Lumiaman
2012-04-30, 23:48
There's perfection and there's the illusion of perfection. What's better in your opinion a phone that does 5-6 things very well or a phone that will do anything you throw at it? Your igoldencage is still a cage and android is far from being perfect or else people wouldn't make a ****load of costum roms. So please please stop spamming and go eat at McDonalds and get a taste of american pefrection.
why is Europe soooo in love with iPhones and androids?
why is Europe soooo in love with iPhones and androids?
Because the mainstream buyer in Europe is the same dumbass the mainstream buyer in the states is and because there's nothing else they can buy.
Lumiaman
2012-05-01, 01:41
Because the mainstream buyer in Europe is the same dumbass the mainstream buyer in the states is and because there's nothing else they can buy.
Bingo. That is what NOKIA needs to cater to, to make money. Not meego, weego, deeego, sheeego technologies.
Lumiaman
2012-05-01, 01:50
Pureview 808...another buggy phone made by NOKIA. When will they learn and turn everything to MS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDp8GvK5Sj0&feature=relmfu
hotnikkelz
2012-05-01, 02:37
Because the mainstream buyer in Europe is the same dumbass the mainstream buyer in the states is and because there's nothing else they can buy.
I won't go so far
Pureview 808...another buggy phone made by NOKIA. When will they learn and turn everything to MS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDp8GvK5Sj0&feature=relmfu
That is a prototype!
And still it isn't avalible.
Yes give everything to MS even your cash in bank ans change logo from Nokia to Microsoft phone.
Sarcasm is set on
danramos
2012-05-01, 07:52
That is a prototype!
And still it isn't avalible.
Yes give everything to MS even your cash in bank ans change logo from Nokia to Microsoft phone.
Sarcasm is set on
I suspect the effects of going Microsoft appear to be getting worse.
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0809/hey-nokia-payphone-public-phone-cellphone-graffiti-lie-lied-demotivational-poster-1220423870.jpg
the reason Americans complain is because they are very discriminating consumers. They demand perfection.
triple lol
panjgoori
2012-05-01, 13:46
i have a question. What will happen to Maemo.org and repos if Nokia becomes bankrupt or another company buys them ? Will they close them all ? Thats the only thing worrying me.
hotnikkelz
2012-05-01, 15:12
Nokia won't become bankrupt. It's very unlikely as they have large reserves and an extensive patent portfolio.
Anyway sidenews, QT will live on Blackberry 10 so that's good news for all QT/C/C++ devs.
Anyway sidenews, QT will live on Blackberry 10 so that's good news for all QT/C/C++ devs.
The bad news is that it's yet another niche OS that will be on life support right off the bat...
danramos
2012-05-03, 10:07
At least not dead yet ;)
I'm sure there are plenty of Commodore 64, Amiga and Atari 8-bit/ST/STe/TT/Falcon enthusiasts who'll claim the same thing--but no sane person in this decade would buy one to run their business on it or as their primary system even for home. Rapidly, Maemo is headed that way and Blackberry and Palm will surely follow at this rate. Considering Windows mobile operating system is STILL slipping behind in market share even AFTER the Lumia 900 release, it doesn't look to be long for this world either.
Here's some recent and INTERNATIONAL perspective, for the people that keep claiming it's all the Americans' fault:
http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/nokia-losing-market-share-samsung-4857293
Bingo. That is what NOKIA needs to cater to, to make money. Not meego, weego, deeego, sheeego technologies.
Shego :D
http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/4100000/Shego-shego-4120458-872-1482.jpg
At least not dead yet ;)
Depends how you define "yet". As in not yet dead, when sitting on the ocean floor with your feet firmly in a bucket of hard concrete. I guess MacGyver would find a way, but that doesn't really count.
Despite the usual childish sarcasm, ranting, naysaying, moaning and dead-horse-beating, Microsoft is not going to just give up on Windows Phone without a fight. I just attended a small event where a rep talked about a 3 to 4 year push. They're in this for the long haul. I would not count them out or write them off, even if I was the most ardent enemy of the company and/or any of its products.
Some people let emotion get far too ahead of reason.
Disclaimer: I use an N9 daily and still wish that had been the chosen direction.
Depends how you define "yet". As in not yet dead, when sitting on the ocean floor with your feet firmly in a bucket of hard concrete. I guess MacGyver would find a way, but that doesn't really count.
Well, how should I define it... Nokia already declared Maemo/Harmattan dead. RIM didn't.
Despite the usual childish sarcasm, ranting, naysaying, moaning and dead-horse-beating, Microsoft is not going to just give up on Windows Phone without a fight. I just attended a small event where a rep talked about a 3 to 4 year push. They're in this for the long haul. I would not count them out or write them off, even if I was the most ardent enemy of the company and/or any of its products.
Some people let emotion get far too ahead of reason.
Disclaimer: I use an N9 daily and still wish that had been the chosen direction.
You do know that saying "they're in this for the long haul" is beating the dead horse too. Anyway it depends who you are talking about Nokia or MS, MS may not give up without a fight but Nokia doesn't have 4 years and MS's fight is so far fruitless regardless of what their rep told you.
danramos
2012-05-04, 05:04
Despite the usual childish sarcasm, ranting, naysaying, moaning and dead-horse-beating, Microsoft is not going to just give up on Windows Phone without a fight. I just attended a small event where a rep talked about a 3 to 4 year push. They're in this for the long haul. I would not count them out or write them off, even if I was the most ardent enemy of the company and/or any of its products.
Some people let emotion get far too ahead of reason.
Disclaimer: I use an N9 daily and still wish that had been the chosen direction.
Just because they've been irrelevant the past decade doesn't mean they've been counted out. All we're saying is that they've continued to remain irrelevant--more and more irrelevant as time moves on. Much like their tablet efforts, phone efforts, zune efforts, it'll continue to just linger on, continuing the perpetual fail machine.
danramos
2012-05-04, 08:32
Bill Gates talks about new Windows software (http://youtu.be/zsV34y-Zrbs) :)
If Microsoft didn't talk about a 3-4 year push, they would hardly be doing their jobs, would they? It would dumbfound me if they didn't. Even Nokia did, with both Symbian^3 and MeeGo alike, up till the 2/11 attack on Twin Platforms.
At our small company we talk about a 3-4 year push, and that doesn't mean that we're about to succeed in conquering the world. It means that officially, we're still employed.
I don't expect to hear Microsoft saying "Look, we're going to push Windows 8 as the next big thing up until, say October, but as soon as it hits the shelves, we're going to stop developing it and it'll not be replaced by the next thing that we'd usually already be looking at developing next".
You do know that saying "they're in this for the long haul" is beating the dead horse too.
Not really. The phrase is meant to apply to something dead, gone, kaput, finished, broken beyond repair, etc. Microsoft isn't there yet. And they still have the resources necessary to succeed; the questions is, as usual, one of execution.
And contrary to Danramos' assertion, Microsoft isn't irrelevent, either. No more than IBM was before their last successful reinvention. However, they are certainly on the cusp of irrelevancy.
Pessimists stand ready with that last nail and a hammer. They're a bit premature. It's easy to rattle off a list of failures as if they alone define a company. But that's as much a form of self-delusion as unfettered optimism is.
Not really. The phrase is meant to apply to something dead, gone, kaput, finished, broken beyond repair, etc. Microsoft isn't there yet. And they still have the resources necessary to succeed; the questions is, as usual, one of execution.
And contrary to Danramos' assertion, Microsoft isn't irrelevent, either. No more than IBM was before their last successful reinvention. However, they are certainly on the cusp of irrelevancy.
Pessimists stand ready with that last nail and a hammer. They're a bit premature. It's easy to rattle off a list of failures as if they alone define a company. But that's as much a form of self-delusion as unfettered optimism is.
That idiom does not apply to things that are broken or kaput. You are looking at its literal meaning as an analogy, you shouldn't. That idioms alternative is "flogging a dead horse" which is pretty much what is happening with that statement. It is the act of trying to raise interest in an issue that no-one supports anymore. That fits the rep and your statement better than any other statement I've seen here to be honest.
Now let's beat the dead horse of hair-splitting. ;)
(in all seriousness, yeah, I agree with your definition but disagree that the 3-4 year push expression fit the description)
And The Register is now reporting Nokia's had a class action suit filed against them in the US on behalf of shareholder for poor performance and misleading shareholders - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/04/nokia_class_action/
danramos
2012-05-04, 19:09
And The Register is now reporting Nokia's had a class action suit filed against them in the US on behalf of shareholder for poor performance and misleading shareholders - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/04/nokia_class_action/
Some things are just best expressed in pictures.
http://oi55.tinypic.com/2yuzgog.jpg
http://tundratabloids.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/screwed.jpg
Not really. The phrase is meant to apply to something dead, gone, kaput, finished, broken beyond repair, etc. Microsoft isn't there yet. And they still have the resources necessary to succeed; the questions is, as usual, one of execution.
And contrary to Danramos' assertion, Microsoft isn't irrelevent, either. No more than IBM was before their last successful reinvention. However, they are certainly on the cusp of irrelevancy.
Pessimists stand ready with that last nail and a hammer. They're a bit premature. It's easy to rattle off a list of failures as if they alone define a company. But that's as much a form of self-delusion as unfettered optimism is.
Past, present, future. Their past or present isn't irrelevant, but their future is getting more and more irrelevant for each day, and that includes their way of doing business. That is a fundamental problem that all the money in the world cannot fix. It's like pouring money into CRT, when LCD, Plasma and OLED clearly is taking over. Google is leading the way. Apple will face the same problem in a not so distant future, it is inevitable.
Just think about it. There are only two ways of beating Google. One way is to be a better Google than Google. The other way is to change the game (the current game that Google is playing) in a similar manner as Google did, but of course in a way that as of yet has not been thought of. MS and Apple are both playing by the old rules, MS hopelessly so, Apple still got some killer products to carry them as well as the brand, but ultimately they are doomed as anything but the niche product they in fact are.
ir.miringila
2012-05-06, 02:53
for me nokia's failure have nothing to do with m$ and wp.... maybe they have to start it again from the beginning. it will take years to bring back their victory..
danramos
2012-05-06, 08:30
for me nokia's failure have nothing to do with m$ and wp.... maybe they have to start it again from the beginning. it will take years to bring back their victory..
I sincerely believe that it will be unlikely to have years to be able to come back to a "victory." I believe the era of Nokia's dominance is at a rightful end, for all its own executives' arrogance and ignorance toward customers.
I sincerely believe that it will be unlikely to have years to be able to come back to a "victory." I believe the era of Nokia's dominance is at a rightful end, for all its own executives' arrogance and ignorance toward customers.
I tend to agree with you on that. But look at Samsung, their arrogance towards customers regarding updates on their devices is beyond anything Nokia has ever done. Then look at Apple and their profit margins. The arrogance is out of this world, or the stupidity of the customers is out of this world for paying many times over for their products, can't really decide, maybe both are true.
I don't think arrogance is what kills a company, they are all arrogant in some way or the other. If the product is good, we can live happily with the arrogance, but if the product starts to be mediocre, the arrogance only piss us off.
danramos
2012-05-07, 09:35
I tend to agree with you on that. But look at Samsung, their arrogance towards customers regarding updates on their devices is beyond anything Nokia has ever done. Then look at Apple and their profit margins. The arrogance is out of this world, or the stupidity of the customers is out of this world for paying many times over for their products, can't really decide, maybe both are true.
I don't think arrogance is what kills a company, they are all arrogant in some way or the other. If the product is good, we can live happily with the arrogance, but if the product starts to be mediocre, the arrogance only piss us off.
The mitigating and ironic element of Samsung's arrogance is that for all the lack of updating that they're accused of, they're very willing to leave their devices very open to hacking and updates and are one of the better platforms for things like AOSP (CyanogenMod for example) as well as kanging (AOKP for example). Thus far, the responses I've gotten from Nokia regarding opening up even the old devices like my Nokia N800 are 'too bad.' You can't even get drivers to compile a new kernel against. Not having that problem with Samsung so far. I'm okay with that level of 'arrogance' from Samsung. Hell--I'm debating whether or not I feel like throwing ICS (Android 4.0 with a NEW 3.x kernel) on my Samsung Galaxy Tab 7 that I've had for well over a year and a half now. I can't even get drivers that can compile with a new kernel for my N800 much less even just get the media player or other Nokia apps to get opened up. THAT sort of arrogance in addition to the crappy and insulting customer service is what stopped my from spending my money on any more Nokia Maemo/MeeGo devices until I saw a turn-around of those experiences. Thus far, I haven't seen any turn around. In fact, it's only seemed to have gotten worse and more insulting to customers.
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