Compatible carriers

[joerg_rw]

There often are questions like which carrier in USA will work with the Neo900?
It's not possible to answer this question comprehensively for every carrier in every country.
Usually you visit pages like http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/byop.html and compare the bands to what the planned P*S8 modems in Neo900 can do.
When all you can find is fuzzy stuff like http://support.sasktel.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/15950 then please consider this (http://wstaw.org/m/2014/05/01/plasma-desktope31889.png)
Or you look up in this thread if somebody else already did that for you. ;-)
Of course answering here when you found reliable info (ideally with URL reference) will also be appreciated

cheers
jOERG

================================================== ==========================
adding a quick lookup table here, summarizing the results from below. See post #2 for details on modem capabilities and excellent post #3 for an evaluation summary


Region; Carrier; list of modems(service, restrictions); ## remarks
USA AT&T: PLS8-US(4G, 3G), PHS8-P/PHS8-J/PHS8-K/PHS8-US/PHS8-USA(3G)
## PLS8-E(urope) is NOT suited for USA
Poland all: PLS8-E(4G,3G,2G), PHS8-P/J/K/E(3G,2G)

Note: we might limit the number of modems offered, to streamline production. So sub-types like PHS8-E / PHS8-US with reduced featureset may not be available when we also offer PHS8-P.

first spreadsheet version: http://neo900.org/stuff/bands-poland-new.ods

essential info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTE_frequency_bands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UMTS_networks
For CDMA don't miss our PXS8 option and also see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1473501

please note: we accept no liability for correctness of any data listed in this thread, or the conclusions therefrom! It's up to you to make sure that the carrier of your choice actually works with the modem of your choice. Modem data as provided by Cinterion/Gemalto and subject to change: http://neo900.org/faq#networks
NOTE: All technical specifications, incl modem component, subject to change for Neo900 during development!

[joerg_rw]

Carrier provided data:
AT&T BYOP (bring your own phone): http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/byop.html
Check compatibility
Refer to the manufacturer's website to verify your unlocked device works with a SIM card on an AT&T GSM network frequency:

• 3G UMTS network 850/1900MHz bands
• 4G LTE network AWS / 700 / 850 / 1900MHz bands
Phones from Sprint® are not compatible at this time.


Modem compatibility breakdown:
PLS8 http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cinterion/downloads/datasheets/gemalto_datasheet_PLS8_web.pdf
For now it's unclear if there will be a non-economy global PLS8 version available, that merges the capabilities of the -E and -US variant.

recommended version for LTE in Europe and some other countries, supports EU-3G and EU-2G but limited roaming capabilities, not even GSM quadband, so no roaming to e.g. USA
> PLS8-E:
Quad Band LTE: 800/900/1800/2600 MHz, FDD-Band (20,8,3,7)
Tri Band UMTS (WCDMA): 900/1800/2100 MHz, FDD-Band (8,3,1)
Dual Band GSM/GPRS/EDGE: 900/1800 MHz

LTE: NOT COMPATIBLE
UMTS: NOT COMPATIBLE
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM, anyway the PLS8-E does not support the usual US-GSM 850/1900 bands.


recommended version for LTE in USA and some other countries, supports some US-3G and global-2G but limited roaming capabilities
> PLS8-US
Quad Band LTE: 700/850/AWS(1700/2100)/1900 MHz, FDD-Band (17,5,4,2)
Tri Band UMTS (WCDMA): 850/AWS(1700/2100)/1900 MHz, FDD-Band (5,4,2)
Quad Band GSM/GRPS/EDGE: 850/900/1800/1900 MHz

4G LTE network AWS (OK) / 700(OK) / 850 (OK) / 1900MHz(OK) bands
3G UMTS network 850/1900MHz(OK) bands
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM. PLS8-US supports US bands 850/1900


PHS8 http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cinterion/downloads/datasheets/gemalto_datasheet_PHS8_web.pdf
recommended version for "global" 3G, no LTE, supports global-2G. The -P variant supports analog audio which we don't need. Found no diff between -J and -K variant so far.
> PHS8-P / PHS8-J / PHS8-K:
Five Bands UMTS/HSPA+ (WCDMA /FDD) (850/800, 900, 1900 and 2100 MHz),
Quad-Band GSM (850/900/1800/1900 MHz)
4G LTE network Not Applicable
3G UMTS network 850/1900MHz(OK) bands
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM. PHS8-P/J/K supports US bands 850/1900

low cost variant of PHS8 - we probably won't offer this variant
> PHS8-US / PHS8-USA:
Dual Band UMTS/HSPA+ (850, 1900 MHz),
Dual-Band GSM (850/1900 MHz)
4G LTE network Not Applicable
3G UMTS network 850/1900MHz(OK) bands
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM. PHS8-US supports US bands 850/1900

low cost variant of PHS8 - we probably won't offer this variant
> PHS8-E:
Dual Band UMTS/HSPA+ (900/2100 MHz),
Dual-Band GSM (900/1800 MHz)

4G LTE network Not Applicable
3G UMTS network NOT COMPATIBLE
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM. PHS8-E has NO SUPPORT for US bands 850/1900


PXS8 http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cinterion/downloads/datasheets/gemalto_datasheet_PXS8_web.pdf
recommended version for "global" 3G, no LTE, supports global-2G and CDMA2000 / EV-DO Rev. A thus extended roaming capabilities
> PXS8
> Five-Bands UMTS/HSPA+ (WCDMA /FDD)
(800/850/900/1900/2100 MHz)
UMTS / HSPA+, 3GPP release 6 / 7
Rx-Diversity with Equalizer (Type 3i)
Enhanced F-DPCH, DTX, DRX, SCH-IC
> Quad-Band GSM (850/900/1800/1900 MHz)
GSM / GPRS / EDGE, 3GPP release 99 / 4
Improved SAIC
> Triple Band CDMA2000, Bands: BC0/BC1 &
BC10 subclass 2+3 (800/1900MHz), 3GPP2: 1xAdvanced,
EV-DO Rev. A, QLIC, Rx-Diversity, Equalizer

4G LTE network Not Applicable
3G UMTS network 850/1900MHz(OK) bands
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM. PXS8-US supports US bands 850/1900

[klinglerware]

There are 2 major carriers in the US built on GSM technology: AT&T and T-Mobile USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_frequencies#United_States_Carrier_Frequen cy_Use

The "basic" frequencies are as follows:

GSM (2G)
AT&T - 1900, and 850 in some markets
T-Mobile - 1900

3G & 4G
AT&T - 1900, and 850 in some markets
T-Mobile - AWS (1700/2100), which is different from the 2100 band used in Europe; 1900 in addition to/instead of AWS in some markets

It is safest to assume that the bands cited above are the "baseline" assumptions of what should work for each carrier. But, if you look at the chart (and at other resources), it gets more complicated than that:

- There are some limited roaming agreements in place that allow T-Mobile customers roaming privileges (for voice only) on AT&T's 850 network in some places where T-mobile has no coverage

- AT&T does not have 850 available in all markets. But you'll ideally want a module with both 850 and 1900, since AT&T will "load-balance" between the two where they have both bands, to help manage capacity

- In general, T-Mobile seems to be moving it's 4G service to it's AWS frequencies while repurposing the 1900 band as primarily 3G. Or else, build new 3G coverage either via AWS or 1900, but not both. You already see T-Mobile 3G on the 1900 band in a lot of markets, but it is certainly not universal. So, if you are a T-mobile subscriber, you might still be able to get 3G with the PHS8 variants (except for PHS8-E) if you are in an area where they have added 3G to the 1900 band, but there are no guarantees.

- AT&T and T-Mobile seem to be developing LTE on the 700 band as well

- In theory, you may be able to use the variant that includes CMDA (PXS8) with Verizon (the largest CDMA carrier in the US). But Verizon, as of right now, does not provide SIM cards for unlocked phones for the purposes of accessing it's CDMA network.

So, net, it's really complicated. No variant will perfectly meet every need, especially if you want to use high speed data both in the US and abroad.

[klinglerware]

For US customers, PLS8-US seems to be the safest choice for 4G coverage in the US, as long as you don't mind EDGE speeds when roaming outside North America and maxing out at UMTS speeds where you don't have 4G coverage in the US.

PHS8-P / PHS8-J / PHS8-K seem to be the best compromise for global travelers, as long as you don't mind lack of 4G

PHS8-E and PHS8-US seem to be less flexible than the other PHS8 variants, so I wonder what the advantages are with using these modules.

[joerg_rw]

PHS8-E and PHS8-US seem to be less flexible than the other PHS8 variants, so I wonder what the advantages are with using these modules.
Price :D

/jOERG

[klinglerware]

Price :D

/jOERG

Ha ha, I did not think of the obvious.

[dos1]

Poland

Every major operator (Plus, Orange, T-Mobile, Play, Cyfrowy Polsat) uses GSM900, GSM1800, UTMS900, UMTS2100 and FDD LTE1800 bands (the last one isn't ready right now on some networks, but by the time Neo900 is out it should be operational everywhere). In next years FDD LTE800 should also be available, but AFAIK it's not known yet which operators will win the permissions for needed frequencies.

Therefore, the best options for Neo900 user from Poland are:

PLS8-E - works at every band mentioned above, including LTE1800 and LTE800
PHS8-E - works at every non-LTE band (obviously, as it doesn't support LTE ;) )
PHS8-P/J/K - the same as PHS8-E
PXS8 - the same as PHS8-E and PHS8-P/J/K, with additional CDMA2000 support on 800/1900MHz. While there are some CDMA networks like Centertel, I'm not aware of any consumer-grade CDMA service in Poland, so PXS8 is probably not worth it when one wants to use Neo900 mostly in Poland.



The non-optimal, but somehow working option:

PLS8-US - despite general support for UMTS and LTE, it supports only GSM900 and GSM1800 from bands used in Poland, so it's limited to 2G there


Not working at all:
PHS8-US/USA

Supplement:
Some people may be interested in support for Aero2 BDI (free internet service). Aero2 BDI operates on UMTS900 and (soon?) TDD LTE2600. While UMTS900 is supported by PLS8-E, PHS8-E, PHS8-P/J/K and PXS8, TDD LTE2600 is not supported by any offered variant (PLS8 supports only FDD bands). So, Aero2 BDI should work on Neo900, but not on its LTE network that's currently in development (so just like almost any device out there, as TDD LTE2600 is used almost nowhere :) ).

Main source: https://www.uke.gov.pl/pozwolenia-radiowe-dla-stacji-gsm-umts-lte-oraz-cdma-4145 - however, lists here contain all permissions for operating BTSes, so some of them might not be operational yet (or maybe even at all). While for GSM/UMTS it's doesn't seem to be problem, for LTE it is, as only small part of allowed stations are actually in use and there's a lot of inter-roaming between companies and networks, so I tried to validate it all with press releases and news notes about LTE deployments.

ODS source for table: http://neo900.org/stuff/bands-poland.ods

[blood_falcon]

in Malaysia and Indonesia, maximum only for 3G, whilst 4G need to be supported by another modem

[kingoddball]

Australian Bands:

2G

2G, other wise known as GSM, is standard on almost all phones (except CDMA phones in the USA). Most new phones come with quad band GSM support. A quad band GSM phone supports 850, 900, 1800, and 1900MHz.

2G is old technology and provides a fall back position when 3G coverage is unavailable.

Australian 2G bands:

900Mhz (Telstra, Optus & Vodafone)
1800Mhz (Telstra, Optus & Vodafone)
3G

There are several 3G networks operating in Australia. 3G frequencies are usually specified as UMTS/HSDPA or WCDMA frequencies on the mobile phone specifications.

Australian 3G bands:

850MHz (Telstra, Vodafone) – Exclusive 3G band
900MHz (Optus, Vodafone) – available in most metro areas on Optus, with both Optus and Vodafone re-farming the 2G 900 spectrum in regional and rural areas
2100MHz (Telstra, Optus, Vodafone) – Exclusive 3G band
4G

Australia is currently using these LTE bands (LTE bandmask in brackets):

2100Mhz (B1) FDD (0000000000000001) – Telstra (3G spectrum)
1800Mhz (B3) FDD (0000000000000004) – Telstra, Optus, Vodafone
900Mhz (B8) FDD (0000000000000080) – Telstra, Vodafone?, Optus (utilises spectrum previously used by 2G)
2300Mhz (B40) TDD (0000008000000000) – Optus (Vivid wireless spectrum)
To follow late 2014:

2600Mhz (B7) FDD (0000000000000040) – Telstra, Optus, TPG?
700Mhz (B28) FDD (0000000008000000) – Telstra, Optus
LTE (Long Term Evolution)/ 4G – more information

Telstra, Optus and Vodafone sell dual mode LTE/ HSPA+ mobile broadband devices that operate seamlessly across 2100Mhz, 1800MHz, 900Mhz and 850MHz spectrum bands, providing customers with 4G(LTE) data where it is available and then seamless switchover to the 3G HSPA technology in other areas. Voice is currently 3G only

In April(2011) Vodafone announced it will replace 8000 2G and 3G base stations with equipment which can be switched to LTE "at the flick of a switch".

In September 2012, Optus announced the activation of its 1800 MHz 4G LTE service in Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and Newcastle. 1800 4G was first trialled in Newcastle (mid 2012). Brisbane and the GoldCoast 4G was activated on 31st October 2012 and Adelaide, just in time for Christmas.

4G Band Plans

Note: During 2013, Telstra Vodafone and Optus by arrangement, swapped 1800Mhz spectrum allocations to provide each with 2 x 20Mhz of contiguous spectrum.

Telstra 1800MHz, 2100Mhz and 900MHz FDD-LTE (see below)

The 1800 service is currently rolled out with 10, 15 and 20MHz carriers. Operating frequencies are as follows:

Most areas in Australia including regional Victoria 4G have carriers with up to 15MHz bandwidth:

Tower Tx: 1805-1820MHz
Tower Rx: 1710-1725MHz
New South Wales and Metro Melbourne & Geelong have carriers with up to 10MHz bandwidth:

Tower Tx: 1805-1815MHz
Tower Rx: 1710-1720MHz
Telstra indicates it will roll-out out 900MHz LTE in mid 2013 to increase coverage depth. This will be a re-farm of 2G 900 spectrum. A 5Mhz bandwidth LTE carrier is the most likely solution. Ref. It will deploy 900/1800 carrier aggregation.

Optus 1800 (FDD-LTE) + 2300 MHz (TDD-LTE)

The 2300 MHz Band 40 Optus spectrum was obtained courtesy of the Vivid Wireless acquisition. It provides up to 98MHz bandwidth in Perth, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra and Adelaide. Canberra may be one of the first 2300 4G locales with a 3 x 20Mhz channel roll-out, sometime in 2013. It is called 4G Plus by Optus.

ref1, ref2, ref3. Excellent Optus 4G band allocation and explanation here

The Optus 1800MHz FDD-LTE service currently supports up to 20MHz of duplex bandwidth.

10Mhz carrier

Transmission Downlink: 1840MHz – 1850MHz
Transmission Uplink: 1745MHz – 1755MHz
The Optus 2300 TDD-LTE service provides up to 98MHz of continuous spectrum:

Optus have plans to convert the 2300MHz band into a TDD-LTE service. TDD differs from normal FDD-LTE services by using only one frequency band to serve as both an upload and download channel. This means that 98MHz of spectrum must be shared between both upload and download, and while this may offer some benefits in dynamically scaling back upload bandwidth to support higher downloads (or vice versa), this means that we shouldn't be quite as excited about the 98MHz of bandwidth as we might have initially been.

Vodafone 4G

The Vodafone 1800MHz FDD-LTE service currently supports up to 20MHz of duplex bandwidth.

Telstra 3G (NextG)

NextG is Telstra's 3G offering. It operates on the 850 Mhz frequency in all areas (with some busy areas more recently using 2100Mhz for extra capacity). For full NextG support throughout Australia, you should get a phone that supports UMTS 850.

Previously, if you did not use a phone with 850 Mhz 3G support, the Telstra/Three joint network known as 3GIS was available on 2100 Mhz 3G within Metro areas. As of September 2012, the 3GIS network has been shut down, however some 3GIS base stations have been repurposed to the NextG network.

Telstras Network is made up of DC-HSPA+ (42Mbps), HSPA+ (21Mbps) and HSPA (7.2Mbps) towers depending on location. Note: requires confirmation

Tower Rx /Tower Tx
The Telstra 850MHz NextG services operates on one of 2 paired 5 or 10 MHz channels.
ie 830 – 845 MHz (Tower Rx) and 875 – 890 MHz (Tower Tx)

830 – 835 / 875 – 880 MHz – 1 x paired 5Mhz channel
ACMA Centre Frequencies: 832.5Mhz (Tower Rx)/ 877.5Mhz (Tower Tx)
835 – 845 / 880 – 890 MHz – 1 x paired 10Mhz channel
ACMA Centre Frequencies: 840Mhz (Tower Rx)/ 885Mhz (Tower Tx)
2100MHz NextG services ... *** to be completed ***.
Optus 3G – more information

Note: Optus is now licensed for 2100 MHz in a number of rural locations.

The Optus 3g operates on dual frequencies; 900 and 2100 MHz.

Optus 900 Mhz 3G is provided by 're-farming' their national 900 2G band for both 2g and 3G services; predominantly in regional and rural areas, now also available in most metro areas for 3G use. Optus pioneered 3g 're-farming' of 900 2G bandwidth. The Optus WCDMA carrier is centered in the middle of their 8.4 Mhz 900 allocation; providing a single 3G 3.84 Mhz bandwidth WCDMA carrier and 10 x GMSK 200kHz wide GSM channels, on either side of the WCDMA channel. It is a delicate Optus balancing act using scarce 900 bandwidth. ref ACMA pdf ref ACMA pdf More information about 900mhz Optus – Posts by davmel

Optus – Tower Rx /Tower Tx
898.4 – 906.8 / 943.4 – 951.8 MHz, 1 x paired 8.3MHz channel
The Optus 2100 MHz 3G band is predominantly deployed in cities and major regional areas. The ACMA has recently granted Optus, an additional 972 x 2100 MHz licences for regional and rural capacity expansion – ref ACMA ref Optus Media Release

Optus – Tower Rx /Tower Tx
tba
Vodafone 3G

Operates on dual frequencies; 900 and 2100 MHz.

Vodafone are also rolling out a 3G 850 range with aim to have it completed by 2012. See More

Tower Rx /Tower Tx
906.8 – 915 / 951.8 – 960 MHz, 1 x paired 8.3MHz channel
3G Hi-band 1900-2100Mhz
The 3G Hi-band 1900-2100Mhz is used by Optus, Telstra and VHA.

Tower Rx /Tower Tx
1920 – 1980Mhz (tower Rx), 2110 – 2170Mhz (tower Tx) using multiple paired 5Mhz and 10Mhz channels
** to be completed **

Optus and Vodafone resellers (Virgin, TPG, Exetel, etc)
These companies provide 3G services on the 2100 Mhz band in Metro areas and some Regional areas and on 900 Mhz.
Virgin is also providing 4G services on the Optus 1800 Mhz LTE Network

For full 3G support throughout Australia, you should get a phone that supports UMTS 900/2100.

Importing Phones from Overseas

Importing phones from the UK/Europe will likely mean receiving a UMTS 900/2100 phone. Make sure this is suitable for you!

Importing phones from the US will result in either a 850/1900 or 850/1900/2100 or 1700/2100 or 900/1700/2100 UMTS phone (make sure you don't import a CDMA phone). AT&T usually supply 850/1900 models sometimes with the addition of 2100 Mhz. T-Mobile usually supply 1700/2100 models sometimes with the addition of 900. Double check the frequency specifications before importing!

Carriers in Canada also support UMTS 850/1900 along with 1700 Mhz, therefore NextG compatible phones may be sourced there also.


CREDIT goes to:
http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/mobile_phone_frequencies

[joerg_rw]

to our valued readers: don't worry, I will write a sum-up of the above post#9 (when I find the time to analyze all that and actually can boil it down to a concise coherent conclusion)

For full 3G support throughout Australia, you should get a phone that supports UMTS 900/2100.Importing phones from the UK/Europe will likely mean receiving a UMTS 900/2100 phone. Make sure this is suitable for you!
seems a bit confusing and self-contradictory.

Anyway the above post clearly kicked USA from top position of my personal list of countries with the most terribly messed up cellphone situation.

[endsormeans]

CANADA

I figured considering there are plenty of Canadian network providers with options...and a waste to type it all....so finding a chart with comparisons was easiest. Unfortunately getting better quality out of the pic and having it under the upload max specs wasn't working for me very well...here is the link instead to the list of Canadian Networks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_mobile_phone_companies

Hmmm....actually considering the phasing out of cdma over the next couple of years it may deter some from aiming at the PSX8 (won't deter me frankly...most of the globe isn't fortunate enough to have 4g speeds and when I travel it would be nice for the option....and gsm shouldn't be a prob here...) and so the Canadian chart is correct....cdma is available (for how long and for legacy phones/contracts/members seems to be the issue...and so over the next few years ...2017 being the last provider to carry it...the list will dwindle to 0 for cdma carriers) albeit misleading in it's omissions

Here is a (more honest) comprehensive (GSM) Canadian List

http://maps.mobileworldlive.com/network.php?cid=170&cname=Canada

A simple breakdown of all carriers by generations... would be....

2G(CDMA/EVDO) GSM: 850/1900 (Rogers, Fido, and MVNOs operating on the Rogers network such as 7-11 and Petro Canada)

3G(GSM/GPRS/EDGE) GSM: 850/1900 (All major networks EXCEPT WIND Mobile and Mobilicity)

(UMTS) AWS 1700/2100 (WIND Mobile and Mobilicity...these companies (are very localized to major urban centres...hence... limited cross-country availability and) are in a current state of flux due to possible buy out by other corps...and limiting restrictions into the canadian market....avoidance is suggested. )

4G LTE: AWS 1700 (Rogers, Bell, Telus and their subsids. - Fido, Virgin, and Koodo...) . Regional carriers may offer LTE coverage

[DDark]

Israel

Source in Hebrew (http://www.moc.gov.il/sip_storage/FILES/0/3050.pdf)


ODS source of the table (https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9msr1xqk7077c4/il_network.ods)

[l_bratch]

Jersey

There are three carriers in Jersey.

JT (JT Global/Jersey Telecom):
2G: GSM 900/1800 [GPRS/EDGE]
3G: UMTS 2100 [W-CDMA/HSDPA] [1]

Airtel (Airtel Jersey/Airtel Vodafone):
2G: GSM 900/1800 [GPRS/EDGE]
3G: UMTS 2100 [W-CDMA/HSDPA] [1]

Sure (Cable and Wireless):
2G: GSM 900/1800 [GPRS/EDGE]
3G: UMTS 2100 [W-CDMA/HSDPA (contract only)] [1]

It looks like suitable modems for the current implementations will be:
PLS8-E, PHS8-P/J/K, PHS8-E or PXS8

PLS8-US looks like it would work, but not with UMTS.

There are no LTE carriers yet, but the regulator expects to have frequencies allocated this year. These will be in the 800 MHz and 2.6 GHz bands. [2]

This means that the ideal future proof modem is:
PLS8-E

Edit 13/02/2015:

The regulator allocated 800 MHz, 1.8 GHz and 2.6 GHz to all three carriers for LTE[-A] in July 2014. [3]

JT's LTE-A network is live as of February 2015. [4]

PLS8-E is therefore the correct modem, as expected.

[1] (http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/radiocommunication-licences/mobile-wireless-broadband/cellular-wireless-broadband/policy-and-background/licensee-freq-tech-information/jersey-licences/) [2] (http://cicra.gg/_files/13-54%20second%20spectrum%20consultation.pdf) [3] (http://cicra.gg/_files/Statement%20of%20intent%20by%20CICRA%20on%202%201% 20and%203%206%20GHz.pdf) [4] (http://www.jtglobal.com/Jersey/Personal/Mobile/4G-is-here/4G/Network-enhancements/)

Edit 21/05/2015:

JT definitely appears to have an LTE-A (LTE Advanced) network (it appears in a wide range of marketing materials and FAQs). I can't find any evidence that Airtel or Sure do, but they do both seem to have at least LTE. Airtel claimed to wish to deploy LTE-A a couple of years ago [5].

The PLS8-E modem appears to be LTE only [6], but LTE and LTE-A are backwards and forwards compatible with each other so it is of no great concern, despite not being able to take full advantage of an LTE-A network.

[5] (http://www.cicra.gg/_files/Airtel.pdf) [6] (http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cinterion/downloads/datasheets/gemalto_datasheet_PLS8_web.pdf)

[klinglerware]

I like the spreadsheet overview that dos1 and DDark compiled. Perhaps we can put up a shared document/template to compile all of the countries in one document for those interested in contributing?

I plan on creating a similar table for the USA.

[joerg_rw]

I like the spreadsheet overview that dos1 and DDark compiled.

I can't find a way to view those attachments in a reasonable resolution so I could actually read them. Seems tmo is flawed?

Perhaps we can put up a shared document/template to compile all of the countries in one document for those interested in contributing?

That's been the plan started with that "table" in that second half of post #1

I plan on creating a similar table for the USA.
I am not sure they actually created those tables, they rather look like wikipedia tables. If those tables are OO spreadsheets, then I'd be willing to merge any such .od* attachments into one document and publish that in here and on wiki in editable and viewable (html-exported, pdf, jpg, whatever) form [edit] link to first prerelease version to be found in post#1

/j

[joecool]

CANADA

A simple breakdown of all carriers by generations... would be....

2G(CDMA/EVDO) GSM: 850/1900 (Rogers, Fido, and MVNOs operating on the Rogers network such as 7-11 and Petro Canada)

3G(GSM/GPRS/EDGE) GSM: 850/1900 (All major networks EXCEPT WIND Mobile and Mobilicity)

(UMTS) AWS 1700/2100 (WIND Mobile and Mobilicity...these companies (are very localized to major urban centres...hence... limited cross-country availability and) are in a current state of flux due to possible buy out by other corps...and limiting restrictions into the canadian market....avoidance is suggested. )

4G LTE: AWS 1700 (Rogers, Bell, Telus and their subsids. - Fido, Virgin, and Koodo...) . Regional carriers may offer LTE coverage

I'll clear this up a bit. 2G CDMA is of no consequence in Canada. The networks were used for Bell/Telus but from what I gather are now only sold by discount MVNO's. Bell/Telus share a 3G HSPA network nationwide, coverage is not an issue. MTS and Sasktel also adopted HSPA.

Big 3 Breakdown

Rogers 2G is GSM, 850/1900 (not cdma/evdo)
Rogers/Bell/Telus 3G (HSPA) 850/1900
Rogers/Bell/Telus LTE AWS (band 4)
Rogers/Bell LTE 2600 (band 7 - additional deployment in cities)
Rogers/Bell LTE 700 *NEW* (looks like probably band 17)

WIND 3G HSPA AWS (regional carrier in ontario).
Mobilicity ^^ (pending acquisition by Telus)

[endsormeans]

My mistake you are right it is 2g gsm not cdma/evdo...I kinda mooshed them together there.
To reiterate...Prepaid from petro-can and 7-11 are the viable tourist option...and with specific carriers IF you are a long standing member some will carry cdma but it is being phased out.

Localized Regional Carriers are great ..so are the subsids...fido...koodo...virgin and the like ....they offer good deals...but are best if you stay put in their coverage area and don't roam.

Unlike the majority of countries....the sheer size of Canada really makes a soul question localized service. For example... those few (if any) possible future neo900 owners living in Manitoba or Saskatchewan it may be an option for MTS or Sasktel ...possibly even for a visiting tourist who is a neo900 user... passing through...but the relevance is questionable...I have relatives I visit in Manitoba...mom and sisters I visit back in Ontario and more relations out near Halifax on the east coast I see at least once a year...from Van Isle on the west coast to Halifax in a straight line it's 4 500 km ....for those of you from smaller countries...to put in perspective....that is at least ...60 hours of non stop driving ...which is lunacy by the way....being a commuting internal "tourist" I can't imagine I would ever make it to the other coast if I were dealing with localized regional carriers along the way...nor would I consider them a permanent option..even my own regional carriers aren't really an option...not if you travel. And for neo900 users from other countries traveling and vacationing through Canada......
I can't say I would be aiming at spotty localized regional coverage as an option if it were me.
Much as I hate to say it ...the big three here Rogers Bell and Telus...are the boys to go with...for consistent coverage..coast to coast...

And frankly consistent coverage is reaaallly relative even then...
For those not familiar with the Canadian landscape ...open your browser and type in gsm or lte coverage maps ...(by carrier or not)...of Canada....and you'll see that the coverage is hardly consistent throughout the country...it's ALOT of country...can't cover it all...only the populated areas really get the coverage....hell..I'm just under 25 miles from Vancouver (one of the largest cities in Canada)...hell I can see it!...clear line of sight across the water! and cell reception is spotty and cuts out...gotta go outside and go for a walk to get reception some times....It's the mountains and hills ....they do a number on reception regardless of how many cell towers there are around you. The country is vast...if you visit and want to go off the beaten path...don't expect coverage. That is one thing I personally do like...the ability to not be in constant available contact...perpetually connected.

Anyway....cdma is going out...but it is not quite yet of no consequence...gsm is solid...lte is becoming prominent.

[joerg_rw]

VERY useful external links:
http://www.4gamericas.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=page&pageid=939 (LTE/4G global, weak assertion about 3G)
http://reboot.fcc.gov/reform/systems/spectrum-dashboard (the americas, lots of "tools")
http://www.handy-karten.de/mobilfunknetze/Lander_Frequenzen/lander_frequenzen.html (very simple table of worldwide countries vs bands, german language but not a problem really)
http://www.lte-anbieter.info/lte-whitepapers.php collection of about cellular/LTE whitepapers, mostly english language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UMTS_networks

According to
http://www.elektronik-kompendium.de/sites/kom/1608181.htm
Um das Problem zu lösen, wird das 1800-MHz-Band die Rolle als LTE-Hauptfrequenzband einnehmen. In vielen Ländern ist das 1800-MHz-Band der breiteste für LTE verfügbare Frequenzblock. Das 1800-MHz-Band liegt optimalerweise zwischen niedrigeren Frequenzen, die zur Flächendeckung eingesetzt werden, und höheren Frequenzen, die zur Kapazitätserhöhung eingesetzt werden. Sie passen sehr gut zu einer Infrastruktur in Ballungsgebieten. Da die meisten Reisenden in Ballungsgebieten unterwegs sind, ist die Wahrscheinlichkeit sehr hoch, dass weltweites Roaming im 1800-MHz-Band möglich ist. Zumindest entwickelt sich das in diese Richtung.
Zwar ist bei 1800 MHz oft noch GSM in Betrieb. Doch das dürfte zu Gunsten von LTE immer weniger werden. Es ist davon auszugehen, dass mit der Zeit vom GSM-Spektrum immer mehr in Richtung LTE übergeben wird. GSM und LTE stören sich auch gegenseitig kaum, so dass sie sich in benachbarten Frequenzen ohne Schutzabstand betreiben lassen. Das sind optimale Voraussetzungen für einen Wechsel von GSM auf LTE.

Damit weltweites Roaming für LTE möglich wird muss ein LTE-Mobilfunkgerät noch weitere Frequenzen unterstützen. Zu den weiteren Hauptbändern zählen 700 MHz (USA), 800 MHz (Europa), 1700 MHz (USA) und 2600 MHz (Europa, Asien, Mittlerer Osten, Afrika, Lateinamerika). Damit ein LTE-Gerät weltweit eingesetzt werden kann, muss es in Zukunft für LTE in 700, 800, 1800 und 2600 MHz, für UMTS in 850, 900, 1900 und 2100 MHz und für GSM in 850, 900, 1800 und 1900 MHz funken können.
the last 2 lines list the frequencies a modem must support for worldwide roaming.
LTE: 700, 800, 1800, 2600 MHz
UMTS: 850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz
GSM (and voice): 850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz
The PHS8 (over)complies with the UMTS and GSM part.
LTE: the PLS8-E alas doesn't really comply with either LTE nor UMTS nor even GSM, so not a roaming solution (in USA odds are you can't even do phonecalls with this) but perfect for LTE in Europe. PLS8-US isn't capable of reasonable roaming either, but at least has all GSM bands for worldwide voice.
Ideally we should build a Neo900 with a PLS8-E, a PLS8-US and a PXS8, a 6 antennae and 3+ SIM slots with multiplexer to connect any modem to any SIM ;-)

Sorry for german language, a google-translate (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elektronik-kompendium.de%2Fsites%2Fkom%2F1608181.htm&edit-text=) for sure is worth it since this article is very informative and accurate.
Many thanks to Walter B. for the awesome help once more.

/j

[endsormeans]

"Ideally we should build a Neo900 with a PLS8-E, a PLS8-US and a PXS8, a 6 antennae and 3+ SIM slots with multiplexer to connect any modem to any SIM ;-)"

THAT sounds perfectly fine and reasonable to me....
seems like something I would have eventually suggested anyway...
glue 'em alll together and see what happens :D...
label THAT model the neo900 Baeblephone :D

[sigh] Actually y'know I would want such a beast (if it could be done)....

[handaxe]

Sweden (Source (http://www.induowireless.com/nu/gsm-3g-4g-frekvensband/))

[blood_falcon]

hi guys, sorry a bit late

Here's my coverage:

Malaysia

The following networks operate in this country/area:

Celcom Axiata Berhad (CELCOM GSM)


GSM 900

GSM 1800

3G 2100


DiGi Telecommunications Sdn Bhd (DiGi)


GSM 1800

3G 2100


Maxis Communications Berhad (MMS & MB)


GSM 900/1800

3G 2100


U Mobile Sdn. Bhd. (U Mobile)


3G 2100


Indonesia


The following networks operate in this country/area:

PT Indosat Tbk (INDOSAT)


GSM 900/1800

GSM 1800

PT Telekomunikasi Selular (TELKOMSEL)


GSM 900/1800

3G 2100

PT. Smartfren Telecom Tbk. (PT Mobile-8 Telekom Tbk)


CDMA 800

CDMA 2000 1X


PT. Axis Telekom Indonesia (AXIS)


GSM 1800

3G 2100


PT. Hutchison 3 Indonesia (3)


GSM 1800

3G 2100


PT. XL Axiata Tbk (XL)


GSM 900/1800

so according to all modem specs, PLS8-E , PLS8-US , PHS8-P/J/K, PHS8-E, PHS8-US/USA and PXS8

for the moment, PXS8 work for Indonesia market because they are the one with CDMA and PLS8-E is best for Malaysia

Will be much better if you guys implement dual SIM card for Asian customers. Sorry if asking too much [Not feasible] requests

[Chimrod]

Hello,

Here is what I've found for France.

source 1 : http://www.arcep.fr/fileadmin/reprise/dossiers/mobile/attributions-frequences-operateurs-metropole-260410.pdf
source 2 : http://www.lowcostmobile.com/actualite/1495-lots-frequences-operateur-technologie-gsm-umts-lte

If I correctly understand, the PLS8-E should be the best solution.

[gianko]

ITALY

2G capabilities: GSM 900, GSM 1800

3G capabilities: UMTS 2100

4G capabilities: LTE 800, LTE 1800, LTE 2600

from http://www.gsmarena.com/network-bands.php3?sCountry=ITALY

Carriers: H3G, Wind, Vodafone, TIM

H3G:
3G capabilities: UMTS 2100
4G capabilities: LTE 1800, LTE 2600

Wind:
2G capabilities: GSM 900, GSM 1800
3G capabilities: UMTS 2100
4G capabilities: LTE 800, LTE 2600

Vodafone:
2G capabilities: GSM 900, GSM 1800
3G capabilities: UMTS 2100
4G capabilities: LTE 800, LTE 1800, LTE 2600

TIM:
2G capabilities: GSM 900, GSM 1800
3G capabilities: UMTS 2100
4G capabilities: LTE 800, LTE 1800, LTE 2600

[olaolala3]

Vietnam

viettel
mobiphone
vinaphone
GSM; 900/1800
UMTS : 2100

[hxka]

Russia:
GSM 900/1800 MHz
UMTS 900/2100 MHz
LTE FDD 800/2600 MHz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operators_of_Europe#Russian _Federation

[Wikiwide]

Quick question...
Where can cellular modem options for Neo900 be discussed? A comparison of them made? It may be an obvious reason which I do not notice, but why all the modems listed are gemalto's?

For example:

PHS8 and PXS8 have only GPS, no backup. PLS8 has GPS/AGPS/GLONASS. Qualcomm's MDM9625+ and MDM9225+ have GPS+GLONASS+Beidou.

PHS8 and PXS8 have 3G+2G+GPRS/EDGE. PLS8 has GPRS/EDGE+4G(Quad Band LTE, Tri Band UMTS/DC-HSPA+).
PXS8 has Dual-Band CDMA. PHS8 has TCP/IP.

Qualcomm's MDM9625+ and MDM9225+ have GSM/GPRS/EDGE, TD-SCDMA, LTE Adv. Cat 4, LTE FDD/TDD CAT 3, SVLTE-DB, HSPA+ Release10, EGAL.
MDM9625 is considered a bit more advanced (world mode). I am not sure if I understand correctly, but the specification sheet includes WiFi for all Qualcomm MDM chips (it's like having FM radio transceiver and Bluetooth on one chip: very confusing).

I am confused with all these bands, but 'world mode' sounds interesting. I am personally more interested in GPS+GLONASS+Beidou bit.

Best wishes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...

[dos1]

PHS8 and PXS8 have only GPS, no backup. PLS8 has GPS/AGPS/GLONASS.

All of the variants (PHS8, PXS8 and PLS8) support GPS and GLONASS, both with assistance mode.

Modem variants are only from Gemalto, because they are pin-compatible with each other, which makes all this "modem selection" possible.

[Wikiwide]

All of the variants (PHS8, PXS8 and PLS8) support GPS and GLONASS, both with assistance mode.
Alright. I was looking only at the first page of the pdf file; I should have scrolled down.
Modem variants are only from Gemalto, because they are pin-compatible with each other, which makes all this "modem selection" possible.
Interesting... Would Qualcomm's variants be pin-compatible with each other, too? Either way, it's awkward when different chipset makers have different pins, as if they just wanted to stop users from jumping between different manufacturers.
Best wishes. Thank you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...

[BigPeteNZ]

Hi,

For New Zealand.

PLS8-e would be best for LTE in NZ as the NZ LTE frequency is 1800mhz on all 3 competitors networks.
3G would only work on Vodafone and 2degrees network.

Next best would be PXS8 as this would support 3G on all 3 competitors networks as well.

New Zealand will soon be building a 700mhz LTE network of which there is no support on any of these modems.

Nice and simple is NZ.

[wicket]

I've been trying to figure out which LTE modem I will need in Colombia but I'm quite confused by some of the information I've been reading.

There are several LTE operators here which as I understand it operate LTE on either AWS/Band 4 (1700MHz) or Band 7 (which most of the websites here report as 2500MHz but some report it as 2600MHz).

For those operators on 1700MHz, I would go for the PLS8-US modem which would be the safest option.

My confusion relates to Band 7. 2500MHz is not listed in the PLS8 data sheet however it does list Band 7 and 2600MHz for the PLS8-E modem. Would you expect the PLS8-E to work with these operators?

I would prefer to go for the PLS8-E modem (if compatible here) as it would also be the best choice for if/when I return to Europe. Band 7 is also the band offered by the operator that offers the best TV package here (for football) which would be appealing should I at some stage want to go for a quadruple play (convergence of services) solution.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[joerg_rw]

band 7 is:
band freq:nom freq:DL freq:UL
7 2600 2500-2570 2620-2690
1)

"band 7" is a clear spec which should guarantee compatibility.
Generally 3GPP clearly specified the bands, while frequencies are just a quite arbitrarily picked fuzzy attribute of the used band (compare: band1 which is called "2100" by DL, vs band4 called "1700" by UL). Please always check what band your provider supports and find the associated uplink/downlink frequencies in the URL in footnote of this post (for plausibility check), and check http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cinterion/downloads/datasheets/gemalto_datasheet_PLS8_web.pdf which bands the US and EU variants of PLS8 support.

HTH
/j

1) http://www.lte-anbieter.info/ratgeber/frequenzen-lte.php
+) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-UTRA#Frequency_bands_and_channel_bandwidths

[wicket]

Thanks Jörg. Having done some more investigation, it seems that if I also want GSM in Colombia I'll need to go for the PLS8-US.

I'm not sure how many people this will be useful to but here is a breakdown of PLS8 modem/operator support in Colombia. I've tried to figure it out as best as I can but official information on some of them is scarce so don't blame me if I've made a mistake.

Notes:

Une operates on the Tigo network for 2G and 3G.
ETB, Uff! and Móvil Éxito operate on the Tigo network for 2G, 3G and 4G.
Virgin Mobile operates on the Movistar network for 2G and 3G.
DirecTV offers LTE only for the home which means no 2G or 3G and no voice at all until the roll-out of VoLTE (which is held back globally due to lack of QoS guarantee).
Although Tigo and Une have merged, it's unclear whether they have unified LTE services to support both bands. Tigo will or have already relinquished the 50MHz block of spectrum in the 2500MHz band.

PLS8-E

Claro: GSM No, UMTS Yes, LTE Yes
Movistar: GSM No, UMTS Yes, LTE No
Tigo: GSM No, UMTS No, LTE No
Une: GSM No, UMTS No, LTE Yes
ETB: GSM No, UMTS No, LTE No
DirecTV: GSM No, UMTS No, LTE Yes
Avantel: GSM No, UMTS ???, LTE No
Virgin Mobile: GSM No, UMTS Yes, LTE No
Uff!: GSM No, UMTS No, LTE No
Móvil Éxito: GSM No, UMTS No, LTE No

PLS8-US

Claro: GSM Yes, UMTS Yes, LTE No
Movistar: GSM Yes, UMTS Yes, LTE Yes
Tigo: GSM Yes, UMTS Yes, LTE Yes
Une: GSM Yes, UMTS Yes, LTE No
ETB: GSM Yes, UMTS Yes, LTE Yes
DirecTV: GSM No, UMTS No, LTE No
Avantel: GSM Yes, UMTS ???, LTE Yes
Virgin Mobile: GSM Yes, UMTS Yes, LTE No
Uff!: GSM Yes, UMTS Yes, LTE Yes
Móvil Éxito: GSM Yes, UMTS Yes, LTE Yes

Official sources:
http://www.claro.com.co/wps/portal/co/pc/personas/movil/4g-lte
http://descubre.movistar.co/4GLTE/que_es.html
https://compras.tigo.com.co/promo_4g
https://www.avantel.co/cobertura/4g-lte.html
http://www.uffmovil.com/cobertura
https://www.virginmobile.co/web/virgin/sac/servicios/cobertura

Third-party sources (some have conflicting information):
http://www.worldtimezone.com/4g.html
http://www.nemesisla.com/descargas/frecuencias_moviles.pdf
https://www.samsung.com/co/pdf/LTE.pdf
http://www.4gamericas.org/files/9714/2791/3518/LTE_America_Latina_4.1.15.pdf
http://www.4gltemall.com/blog/4g-lte-spectrum-in-colombia/
http://www.telecompaper.com/news/etb-launches-4g-lte-services-in-colombia--1041633
http://www.lte-tdd.org/news/ind/2014-10-08/4558.html
http://www.gsmarena.com/network-bands.php3?sCountry=COLOMBIA
http://wiki.apnchanger.org/Colombia
http://www.budde.com.au/Research/Colombia-Mobile-Market-Insights-Statistics-and-Analysis.html
http://www.virgin.com/news/virgin-mobile-latin-america-begin-operations-colombia-2012
http://www.lte-tdd.org/news/ind/2015-05-05/6187.html
https://www.telegeography.com/products/commsupdate/articles/2014/11/27/une-epm-tigo-set-to-relinquish-50mhz-of-spectrum-post-merger/

[unclouded]

Hi,

For New Zealand.

Nice and simple is NZ.

I just got a surprisingly detailed reply from Skinny:


The Spark network uses both (HSDPA/UMTS) 2100mhz and 850mhz depending on your location. 4G does indeed operate on 1900mhz. Within city centres the network operates on 2100mhz and outside of the city centres its 850 mhz, these are both 3G frequencies. 4G only operates in certain places.

From the link you sent me for the modems, it looks like the PLS8-E will not pick up our 850mhz frequency, which could cause problems depending on your location. If you want to guarantee coverage, it may be better to go for the PHS8-P/J/K or PXS8.

Usually we cannot recommend individual devices, especially modems as these are devices we do not usually support. However, your best bet is with PHS8-P/J/K or PXS8. However, after looking at your coverage, if you feel you can get by with the PLS8-E device that could also work, but please be aware, it will not work outside of city centres due to not being able to pick up the 850mhz frequency.

[endsormeans]

Yeah man the PXS8 I think is the way to go ...
why get the PHS8-P/J/K ? When you can have it's freq. range and the cdma range of the PXS8?
you can hedge your bets better with the PXS8
that way...you go out into the boonies... you got reception.
Prob. is the boys aren't sure they can get it ..yet.
If I knew my neo could have the PXS8 ...
I'd want it over anything else..
alot of the planet isn't 3g or 4g.
.it's old fashioned cdma ...which happens to have it's own perks...security being better for one.
As it stands.. if they can't get it ..I'm not interested in the alternatives at this time.

Actually I have been mulling it for some time..
personally I'm thinking of putting a caveat in my order...(since I don't want a modem module if they can't source the PXS8)...

[juiceme]

Yeah man the PXS8 I think is the way to go ...

I have to disagree, PLS8-E is the way to go.
Just made my order this morning :D

why get the PHS8-P/J/K ? When you can have it's freq. range and the cdma range of the PXS8?

who needs a freaking cdma range?
I'm pretty sure they'll scrap that system sooner or later anyway! :p

[endsormeans]

You just wait until you get stuck in a "Cabin-in-the-Woods" sequel and you'll be wishin' for the cdma range ...
:D

[peterleinchen]

I would/will be undecided between those two options!
PXS would give full worldwide coverage. And I believe we will see cdma and gsm for at least one (possibly two?) decades.
On the other hand LTE is the future (but what I see here in Germany about umts coverage I get a lot of time only 2g, even in the city).
So what, do you want the Neo as up-to-date crazy-fast-dataspeed smart phone? Or as an overall driver?

[mithrandir]

Is the only difference between UMTS plus CDMA2000 and UMTS "worldwide" the CDMA2000 functionallity. So the UMTS plus CDMA2000 version would also work in Europe?

I live in Germany and I am quite unsure if I want LTE or roaming everywhere. Any suggestions?

best regards
Mith

[joerg_rw]

Is the only difference between UMTS plus CDMA2000 and UMTS "worldwide" the CDMA2000 functionallity. So the UMTS plus CDMA2000 version would also work in Europe?
Yes. And the PXS8 module is probably a few bucks more expensive than the PHS8.

/j

[klinglerware]

I live in Germany and I am quite unsure if I want LTE or roaming everywhere. Any suggestions?

best regards
Mith

I think many of us are trying to make that decision. It probably depends on your use case. If you never leave your home region, then the LTE option makes the most sense. If you embark on intercontinental travel with some frequency, then it is a more difficult choice.

In my case, it is an even tougher decision. Under most circumstances, I would have chosen the pentaband UMTS option, without LTE, since 3G speeds have always been good enough for me and I do a fair amount of global travel where the ability to roam on 3G would be useful.

Unfortunately, I live in the US with its patchwork of used frequencies. As a T-mobile US customer, the required 3G/4G band could be 700, 1700/2100, or 1900, (bands 12, 4, 2 [Joerg_rw]) depending on the area of the country I happen to be in. As such, I may have to elect the US LTE option (matching bands: 4, 2 [Joerg_rw]) just to guarantee network compatibility. I suppose I can get a GSM travel hotspot if I do want to use 2100 3G data in the event I do travel outside the Americas.

[Kabouik]

Modem compatibility breakdown:
PLS8 http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cint...t_PLS8_web.pdf
For now it's unclear if there will be a non-economy global PLS8 version available, that merges the capabilities of the -E and -US variant.

recommended version for LTE in Europe and some other countries, supports EU-3G and EU-2G but limited roaming capabilities, not even GSM quadband, so no roaming to e.g. USA
> PLS8-E:
Quad Band LTE: 800/900/1800/2600 MHz, FDD-Band (20,8,3,7)
Tri Band UMTS (WCDMA): 900/1800/2100 MHz, FDD-Band (8,3,1)
Dual Band GSM/GPRS/EDGE: 900/1800 MHz
LTE: NOT COMPATIBLE
UMTS: NOT COMPATIBLE
2G: unclear if AT&T supports any GSM, anyway the PLS8-E does not support the usual US-GSM 850/1900 bands.
A few questions about the PLS8-E (LTE Europe), just to be sure I understand correctly:

- When it is said "Europe and some other countries", what does it mean exactly? Is "Europe" a shortcut summary with some exceptions, or does it really include all countries in the European Union? I wouldn't want to fall in one of the exceptions, if any.
- UMTS is triband, so would it work only in Europe or in other regions too?
- GSM/GPRS/EDGE is only dual band, so does it mean I can get 2G and "classic" phone communications just within Europe?

[jonwil]

Anyone here know whether Neo900 has the right frequency bands for Optus here in Australia? And if so, which modem will do it?

[l_bratch]

Anyone here know whether Neo900 has the right frequency bands for Optus here in Australia? And if so, which modem will do it?http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/mobile_phone_frequencies

Looks like you want the PLS8-E modem, same as most (all?) of Europe.

[joerg_rw]

A few questions about the PLS8-E (LTE Europe), just to be sure I understand correctly:

- When it is said "Europe and some other countries", what does it mean exactly? Is "Europe" a shortcut summary with some exceptions, or does it really include all countries in the European Union? I wouldn't want to fall in one of the exceptions, if any.
- UMTS is triband, so would it work only in Europe or in other regions too?
- GSM/GPRS/EDGE is only dual band, so does it mean I can get 2G and "classic" phone communications just within Europe?
please see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UMTS_networks
and
http://neo900.org/faq#networks (NOTE! the PLS8-X seems to not support voice! :eek: )
and try to find decent info about your carriers you want to use.
Always try to use "band" metrics, "frequency" is ambiguous!

I or Neo900 group or even Cinterion/Gemalto can not give any other binding info than the one already available. Sorry

/j

[mithrandir]

Some further thoughts on modem selection...

As of current knowledge we can have either good roaming via GSM, or LTE.

What do you think, how long will the GSM networks still be operational?

If they shut them off lets say within the next five years then there is not that much benefit from the better roaming capabilities of the PHS8-P/J/K. OK one could still use the UMTS frequencies, but would loose much of the roaming functionallity and have 4 useless bands, the modem supports.

If they are operational for lets say 15+ years then the roaming advantage is something to take into account.

Still hoping for a firmware for the PLS8-E with additional roaming capabilities like the US variant has. This would make things so much easier ;)

Mith

[joerg_rw]

As of current knowledge we can have either good roaming via GSM, or LTE.
That's incorrect, the PHS8 is made for international UMTS, not GSM. GSM is just the 2nd (ancient) level of fallback when UMTS service/network-coverage is not available on any of the bands the PHS8 supports.

[ric9K]

(NOTE! the PLS8-X seems to not support voice! :eek: )

/j

Not supporting voice? Sorry, stupid clarification need:
Does that mean no classical phonecalls?

I want to convert my voucher in pre-order but this is the only blocking step for me: the modem.
All these bands and standards are confusing me. Really. Since weeks.
It is taking me hours to try to compute all these infos and when read, they all are mixed im my mind.

Is there no simple trick to find the one for france for lambda use: phonecalls + internet?

edit: hmm, does that PLS8-X mean PLS8-"any" or PLS8-US[/X]?

[joerg_rw]

Not supporting voice? Sorry, stupid clarification need:
Does that mean no classical phonecalls?

I want to convert my voucher in pre-order but this is the only blocking step for me: the modem.
All these bands and standards are confusing me. Really. Since weeks.
It is taking me hours to try to compute all these infos and when read, they all are mixed im my mind.

Is there no simple trick to find the one for france for lambda use: phonecalls + internet?

edit: hmm, does that PLS8-X mean PLS8-"any" or PLS8-US[/X]?

This refers to the PLS8-X variant of PLS8-US which came up recently. Please simply ignore it, I just found no time yet to delete the [/X] from our table of options. The PLS8-US is OK for phone calls.

For France the "simple trick" is:
Do you want LTE (optimized for high bandwidth computing, enabling speeds up to 100 Mbps for downlink and 50 Mbps for uplink) which only works in Europe and even there only on UMTS in some rural areas,
or do you want UMTS-global (optimized for high bandwidth and allows speeds up to 14.4 Mbps for downlink and 5.7 Mbps for uplink) which works pretty much everywhere on this globe?
According to your preferences you pick either PLS8-E (Europe LTE) or PHS8 (UMTS).

Also note that LTE version costs probably a 20 to 50 bucks more than the UMTS version.
We also offer PXS8 for those (US) residents who want to have access to CDMA2000 as well, for Europeans it's quite irrelevant I guess.

Cheers
jOERG

[ric9K]

This refers to the -X variant which came up recently. Please simply ignore it, I just found no time yet to delete the [-X] from our table of options. The PLS8-US is OK for phone calls.

For France the "simple trick" is:
Do you want LTE (100Mbit/s) which only works in Europe and even there only on UMTS in some rural areas,
or do you want UMTS-global (up to iirc 42Mbits/s) which works pretty much everywhere on this globe?
According to your preferences you pick either PLS8-E (Europe LTE) or PHS8 (UMTS).

Also note that LTE version costs probably a 20 to 50 bucks more than the UMTS version.
We also offer PXS8 for those (US) residents who want to have access to CDMA2000 as well, for Europeans it's quite irrelevant I guess.

Cheers
jOERG

OK, cool, finally simple!
Thank you Joerg.

And if I understand right this table (http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=35148&d=1399286220) (post 22), the PLS8-E can not use UMTS if LTE is not available, am I right?

[joerg_rw]

OK, cool, finally simple!
Thank you Joerg.

And if I understand right this table (http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=35148&d=1399286220) (post 22), the PLS8-E can not use UMTS if LTE is not available, am I right?

In addition to LTE the PLS8-E can do
UMTS
900 MHz (Bd8)
1800 MHz (Bd3)
2100 MHz (Bd1)
which seems OK for France from all I can see in the tables provided in post22 (except the attachment)
Please also refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UMTS_networks#Europe which states that all 4 French services do UMTS on bands 8 & 1, PLS8 can do both of them.
So PLS8 can do full UMTS too, in France

cheers
jOERG

[ric9K]

In addition to LTE the PLS8-E can do
UMTS
900 MHz (Bd8)
1800 MHz (Bd3)
2100 MHz (Bd1)
which seems OK for France from all I can see in the tables provided in post22 (except the attachment)
Please also refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UMTS_networks#Europe which states that all 4 French services do UMTS on bands 8 & 1, PLS8 can do both of them.
So PLS8 can do full UMTS too, in France

cheers
jOERG

Ok, thanks for clarification.

Last question if the post #22 atachment was wrong:
Both can do GSM?

Conclusion if gsm answer is positive: PLS8-E can do, FOR FRANCE, all what PHS8 can do, plus LTE.

[joerg_rw]

Ok, thanks for clarification.

Last question if the post #22 atachment was wrong:
Both can do GSM?

Conclusion if gsm answer is positive: PLS8-E can do, FOR FRANCE, all what PHS8 can do, plus LTE.
I haven't looked at the attachment of post22.
Yes all our modems can do GSM. Some like the PLS8-E can NOT do USA 850/1900 GSM bands. (which is quite strange since the PLS8-US can do the US and the worldwide GSM bands)

[Malakai]

For France the "simple trick" is:
Do you want LTE (100Mbit/s) which only works in Europe and even there only on UMTS in some rural areas,
or do you want UMTS-global (up to iirc 42Mbits/s) which works pretty much everywhere on this globe?


I don't think that the PHS8 gets to 42Mbits/s. From what I can read from the datasheet it has :
HSDPA Cat. 10 / HSUPA Cat.6 data rates
DL: max. 14.4 Mbps, UL: max. 5.76 Mbps

So I think that it would be better to get a PLS8-E and benefit from the speed of the 4G (100Mbit/s). The PHS8 is really nice if you travel a lot and if max speed of 14.4 Mbps aren't a problem for you.

Datasheet PHS8 (http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cinterion/downloads/datasheets/gemalto_datasheet_PHS8_web.pdf)

[joerg_rw]

@Malakai: updated/fixed, thanks! :-)

[joerg_rw]

on PXS8, relevant info about how to use CDMA:
http://www.enkom.fi/assets/Uploads/PXS8-PVS8-Multi-Carrier-AN67-V01-29.08.20131.pdf
http://www.verizonwireless.com/support/knowledge-base-14080/
https://community.verizonwireless.com/thread/35995

PS: maybe we didn't emphasize so far, but Neo900 with PXS8 actually can use multiple CDMA identities in addition to UMTS/GSM (not at the same time though) *). Probably for a lot of US-based users this should be very interesting
Q: "Does it support CSIM?"
A: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDMA_Subscriber_Identity_Module "A CDMA Subscriber Identity Module (CSIM) is an application to support CDMA2000 phones that runs on a UICC..."
http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cinterion/downloads/datasheets/gemalto_datasheet_PXS8_web.pdf " UICC and U/SIM card interface 1.8 V and 3 V"

*) Not verified yet, so we can't guarantee for it until we had a chance to test a PXS8 in USA. For obvious reasons our team expertise re CDMA is sparse.

[joerg_rw]

On Tue 16 June 2015 13:05:47 P. wrote:
> Hi Joerg,
>
> Just to reiterate, as I have tried to get to you on a few occasions, could
> you please help me select the best choice of a modem for the order of
> Neo900 board. I have already paid using your shop, choosing LTE (EU) as I
> live in the UK. Is it the best possible choice?
>
> Many thanks in anticipation of your reply.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> P.

Hi Pxxxx!

I guess the LTE-EU modem is a good choice for UK.
Please also refer to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93095
and the links therein, particularly in first post.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks#Europe ->
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks_in_Europe lists
"3" band 3
"EE" bands 3,7
"O2" band 20
"UK Broadband" bands 42,43
Vodafone band 20

according to http://neo900.org/faq#networks the PLS8-E can do bands 3,7,8,20 (on LTE, in addition to the supported UMTS bands) and thus will work in UK with all carriers except "UK Broadband" (errors excepted!)

Best regards
jOERG

[joerg_rw]

Actually I did a little fancy and sorted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks_in_Europe table by bands (click on the "band" column) and those are the few european carriers that are not compatible to PLS8-E in LTE mode (same carriers might still offer other LTE or UMTS bands compatible with PLS8-E, I didn't check. E.G "Sweden '3' carrier" operates bands 7, 20, 38 - the latter not supported by PLS8-E, when you want to use PLS8-E with this carrier you need to check on the carrier's network coverage map to see if the coverage by supported bands is useful for you or not):

latest PLS8 datasheet updates (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1474968#post1474968)suggest it will also support Band1 !

http://wstaw.org/m/2015/06/16/plasma-desktopVb1947.png for bands (?),1 and
http://wstaw.org/m/2015/06/16/plasma-desktopaT1947.png for bands >20

/j

[klinglerware]

I ended up pre-ordering a Neo with the LTE US version. My line of thinking is as follows:
- the Neo900 is expensive, and "one of a kind"
- since it is so expensive, I want to maximize compatibility in the region where I would be using it the most
- since it is so expensive and rare, I probably will not want to travel with it
- if I am abroad, I am probably there on business, so I will want a device "that just works"

So, I bought a Blackberry Z10 relatively cheaply on Ebay for use as a business phone for travel, and I hope to use the Neo900 for tinkering closer to home.

Perfect compatibility aside, for those of you on T-mobile US who would like the global UMTS roaming capability but are concerned about the lack of AWS (Band 4, 1700/2100) on the PXS8, I can tell you that there is a good chance that you can still take advantage of the T-mobile US 3G network with the PXS8.

The backstory to this is that T-mobile acquired a lot of AT&T's spectrum as part of their failed merger. They are using this added spectrum to "refarm" their network so that eventually AWS will be used primarily for LTE, whereas 1900 (Band 2) will be used primarily for 3G. Thus, in many markets, you can already use a device with only 1900 3G on T-mobiles 3G network.

To test this, I purposely bought the international version of the Blackberry Z10 without the AWS bands. I traveled extensively in the past few weeks between metro NYC, Philadelphia, and Washington DC. In almost all areas, I was able to to connect to T-mobile 3G via the 1900 band.

YMMV, depending on what market you are in, but it does seem like the PXS8 is a viable option for T-mobile US users.


I think many of us are trying to make that decision. It probably depends on your use case. If you never leave your home region, then the LTE option makes the most sense. If you embark on intercontinental travel with some frequency, then it is a more difficult choice.

In my case, it is an even tougher decision. Under most circumstances, I would have chosen the pentaband UMTS option, without LTE, since 3G speeds have always been good enough for me and I do a fair amount of global travel where the ability to roam on 3G would be useful.

Unfortunately, I live in the US with its patchwork of used frequencies. As a T-mobile US customer, the required 3G/4G band could be 700, 1700/2100, or 1900, (bands 12, 4, 2 [Joerg_rw]) depending on the area of the country I happen to be in. As such, I may have to elect the US LTE option (matching bands: 4, 2 [Joerg_rw]) just to guarantee network compatibility. I suppose I can get a GSM travel hotspot if I do want to use 2100 3G data in the event I do travel outside the Americas.

[mithrandir]

Hi,
are there any news regarding a possible firmware for PLS8-E with better roamig capabilities?
Thx mith

[joerg_rw]

Hi,
are there any news regarding a possible firmware for PLS8-E with better roamig capabilities?
Thx mith

So far no news regarding firmware updates. Latest convo is on https://developer.gemalto.com/threads/pls8-dual-sim-volte
Then otoh I can see why PLS8-E doesn't provide GSM(2G)-850/1900 - seems USA carriers more and more discontinue all 2G services. Still a pity since in many other more sane countries 850/1900 will still exist for quite a while.
But there's hope from another perspective: regarding the chaos in USA it's not completely unlikely that some of the carriers there eventually might start using the "European" LTE bands as well

cheers
jOERG