Jolla phone successor [Archive] - maemo.org

gaelic

2015-09-19, 17:19

Hello Community.

After almost 2 years of owning and using the Jolla Phone it got swirled away in a mini Tsunami yesterday :(

So I'm looking for a new Smartphone, but I'm unsure what to do.I got the following thoughts in my head:

- the Jolla was nice, but the Hardware is nowadays outdated
- the Display is my main concern, it was almost unreadable outside
- I do not need a lot of apps, was quite satisfied with the ones available
- I love the User Interface of the Jolla/Sailfish
- I do not really want a iOS or Android device, and I do not need Stores with 1Mio Apps of which are 99% shitty
---
So what to do? I do not really want to spend 250€ on a completely outdated Smartphone. Any suggestions on alternatives, maybe actual hardware (within last year) running Sailfish. Or a completely different system (Mozilla, Ubuntu, ...)?

Thanks for a fruitful discussion.

Victorious

2015-09-19, 17:49

I have the same issue. I look in the direction of Nexus 5.., It has successfully ported Sailfish.

chenliangchen

2015-09-19, 18:33

I had more or less the same problem. And I couldn't find any alternatives, I went back to Jolla...

Perhaps BB10 is a choice for you. (Z30) or if you prefer something big, Passport is also a good choice, plus a really nice HW keyboard.

I know Android is not your choice, (it's not mine either), but there are some really nice HW like Sony Z5, you can do a little tweak given the device can be rooted, to remove the navigation bar and make it gesture based swipe like Jolla (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zlBRnXxb2I). Plus you can always unlock BL and flash CM or even Salifish if there is a build.

Tough choice. But I guess there won't be a true successor to Jolla, with a at least mid ranged hardware, any time soon. Hope I was wrong.

ggabriel

2015-09-19, 19:09

chenliangchen

2015-09-19, 19:46

I'll get another Jolla... my screen is cracked and it will only last so long, I could use 2 devices to test stuff and whatnot.
The hardware seems outdated but SFOS runs faster than most things out there anyway so I won't bother with the hw for as long as the OS is a deal breaker.

I tend to agree 80% of your opinion. Yes interms if CPU, ram or even resolution (540p is enough for most use) is not that important give user experience is great, but some hardware flaws cannot be aided by software, such as poor outdoor readability, inaccuracy in colors etc. These are the majors problems with Jolla now. Furthermore like weak camera, weak speaker ect also won't improve much with SW.

A hardware similar to Xperia Z1/3 compact would be perfect in my opnion...

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-19, 19:53

i think u had better to buy nexus5. if you dont need android apps (otherwise u have to install multirom with android and sailfish,and then switch,but quite uncomfortble)

ggabriel

2015-09-19, 21:40

I tend to agree 80% of your opinion. Yes interms if CPU, ram or even resolution (540p is enough for most use) is not that important give user experience is great, but some hardware flaws cannot be aided by software, such as poor outdoor readability, inaccuracy in colors etc. These are the majors problems with Jolla now. Furthermore like weak camera, weak speaker ect also won't improve much with SW.

A hardware similar to Xperia Z1/3 compact would be perfect in my opnion...

True but not a deal breaker for me. My Jolla has a keyboard too, I can't find that on most phones out there ;)

ajalkane

2015-09-19, 22:06

I'd just get an used Jolla for relatively cheap price, and wait until next Sailfish powered device appears.

alfredquack

2015-09-19, 22:56

might be slightly off topic, but

what do you need faster hardware for?

I'd actually think to downgrade in terms of hardware. I still like my n97 just because it's got that fantastic sliding kbd and it's by far smaller in my pocket than jolla with tohkbd.

As a matter of fact, I just got my wife a nokia e7 and I'm quite temped to get one myself. I don't care too much about faster hardware. That thing just works fine for me and the kbd ist awesome. Bummer it doesn't run sfos.

btw. I still cry after my old sony clie! I bet sony got paid to discontinue palmOS by MS.

chenliangchen

2015-09-19, 23:06

salyavin

2015-09-20, 01:59

As far as Sailfish goes one needs more memory to take advantage of multitasking. Even without alien dalvik things can start to be closed too often. Very different from the Maemo experience on the N900

Jedibeeftrix

2015-09-20, 07:51

might be slightly off topic, but

what do you need faster hardware for?

it's not necessarily that i need faster hardware.

no, what i need is not to feel ripped off in paying 250 Euros for hardware that can be seen in Landfill android for just a third as much.

mikecomputing

2015-09-20, 08:06

it's not necessarily that i need faster hardware.

no, what i need is not to feel ripped off in paying 250 Euros for hardware that can be seen in Landfill android for just a third as much.

I personally pay more for a jolla device than shitty android devices and the reason is simple:

Jolla can not compete will big manufacturers with lower prices. I am sure you are not ripped off by Jolla. It is probably the other way around. Not sure investors has got all money back from selling the phones yet.

alfredquack

2015-09-20, 08:20

well, so just get a used one, eather here, or elsewhere on the net. Fortunately jolla has a replacable battery, so that can be easyly replaced in case the original one doesn't work no more.

I myself tend to be opposed to always shorter and shorter lifecycles of products und try just keep my things without replacing 'em every year or so.

I 'm still very impress when i think of what could be done with my first computer - a sinclair ZX-spectrum with a Z80 an 16/ 48k of memory! And, most notably how fast that think came on. So sometimes I think that resources could be used better in software optimization rather than new hardware. That is optimization, not more and more funcions. Why not stick to what one's got? It's often been said that noone needs1 billion of "new" apps. And personaly I don't want to search new apps every time I change phones (first palm, than symbian, than sfos).

So to make things short: just get a used jolla.

gaelic

2015-09-20, 08:33

Thank for the answers. And just to reply to some:

- I do not need faster hardware, but as others I do not wan't to pay 250 for outdated hardware (especially in terms of display readability)
- used ones are not really available as the market is quite small
- spare battery is a joke as there is not possibility to buy one

As for the solution (maybe only temporarily):

I ordered a Ubuntu Phone (Aquaris e 4.5) for 130 (so half the price of the Jolla).

nodevel

2015-09-20, 09:11

Just a few notes:

- I do not need faster hardware, but as others I do not wan't to pay 250 for outdated hardware (especially in terms of display readability)
- used ones are not really available as the market is quite small

Yes, there are plenty of used ones. Just check Finnish resell websites (like huuto.net) - last time I checked (few months ago), you could get one for less than 100EUR. I don't live anywhere near Finland, but sending it to other countries was no problem.

- spare battery is a joke as there is not possibility to buy one

Yes, there is. (http://reviewjolla.blogspot.cz/2015/09/test-compatible-batteries-for-jolla.html) I am now happily using two batteries in my Jolla and I'm thinking of getting a 3rd one. The new one was for under 10EUR and it works better than the current official one (as it is brand new, unlike the other one).

As for the solution (maybe only temporarily):

I ordered a Ubuntu Phone (Aquaris e 4.5) for 130 (so half the price of the Jolla).

Good luck with that choice. It wouldn't be me first - or even a second or third :p - choice because of Ubuntu Touch (many, many reasons why not) and the lack of 4G. If not for another Jolla, I would go for the Nexus 4/5 and run either SailfishOS, LuneOS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuneOS), or Plasma Phone (http://plasma-phone.org/) on it.

But to each his own, so I hope you'll like it! :)

EDIT: Corrected Nexus 5 to Nexus 4/5, as itdoesntmatt pointed out.

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-20, 09:20

what are reason against ubuntu phone? i have nexud 5 but lune os isn not available yet!

ps: are there some news about the really wanted implementation of your cover patch ?

nodevel

2015-09-20, 09:50

what are reason against ubuntu phone? i have nexud 5 but lune os isn not available yet!

ps: are there some news about the really wanted implementation of your cover patch ?

Ah, sorry, I mistook Nexus 4 for Nexus 5.

And the reasons? Mind that they are just my opinion:

Canonical and their attitude towards the rest of the Linux/FOSS world. This (http://mer-project.blogspot.fi/2013/04/wayland-utilizing-android-gpu-drivers.html) is one good example. I do not want to support such attitude.
Mir (related to the previous point)
No multitasking
Unintuitive design (I am complaining about SailfishOS 2.0, but that's nothing compared to UT's side and bottom swipes).
Alarm doesn't go off when the phone is turned off.
The focus on Web apps and its effect on the native app situation.
Last time I heard, it was nowhere near the functionality completion or optimization of SailfishOS.
After the Ubuntu Edge con and the issue with Ubuntu (Desktop) automatically sending your searches to Amazon (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/24/ubuntu_amazon_suggestions/) for search suggestions, I wouldn't rely on it for my data/privacy.

Don't give me wrong, Ubuntu Touch may have changed a lot since I last saw it and I may be pleasantly surprised and even change my opinion, but some of the aforementioned things are crucial for someone coming from the Maemo/Linux world. I used to be a Ubuntu (Desktop) user many years ago, but I'm glad I left.

PS: Still no progress on the patch, sorry. I'm looking into some other things that need fixing for my use case, but I'd definitely like to get back to it.

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-20, 10:16

the article luckly said that canonical behaviour have been improved..and now they collaborate actively. i understand however that their previous behaviour was so bad. but now seems better

alfredquack

2015-09-20, 10:44

so did I, it's not to complicated to find a used Jolla and there are even some tohkbd's out there, despite the relativly small market share.

nexus 5 was one option I considered to have a closer look into, but why get clone where one has to do some adjustment, when you can have the original?

And again, as pointed out before, it's the whole picture that matters. A fast (modern hardware) phone with a lousy OS ist still a lousy phone altogether. Shure a tractor has lot's of power, but do you want to drive it to work every day, or on the autobahn?

gaelic

2015-09-20, 10:55

Just a few notes:

Yes, there are plenty of used ones. Just check Finnish resell websites (like huuto.net) - last time I checked (few months ago), you could get one for less than 100EUR. I don't live anywhere near Finland, but sending it to other countries was no problem.

I'm not Finnish and I do not speak Finnish, so this option doesn;t really help. I checked here and on ebay. Nothing there.

Just a few notes:

Yes, there is. (http://reviewjolla.blogspot.cz/2015/09/test-compatible-batteries-for-jolla.html) I am now happily using two batteries in my Jolla and I'm thinking of getting a 3rd one. The new one was for under 10EUR and it works better than the current official one (as it is brand new, unlike the other one).

It is not official, so I do not care. There's no warranty with that one. Would you replace my broken phone due to battery problems? Jolla will definitely not.

Just a few notes:

Good luck with that choice. It wouldn't be me first - or even a second or third :p - choice because of Ubuntu Touch (many, many reasons why not) and the lack of 4G. If not for another Jolla, I would go for the Nexus 4/5 and run either SailfishOS, LuneOS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuneOS), or Plasma Phone (http://plasma-phone.org/) on it.

I do not care about 4g and all of your named options are nothing more than alpha, some ony exist only as mockups (Plasma) anf ar far from being used..

gaelic

2015-09-20, 11:02

Canonical and their attitude towards the rest of the Linux/FOSS world. This (http://mer-project.blogspot.fi/2013/04/wayland-utilizing-android-gpu-drivers.html) is one good example. I do not want to support such attitude.

True, but the TRULY OPEN SailfishOS is also still missing.

Mir (related to the previous point)

yes

No multitasking

I do not really care about that. Any use cases?

Unintuitive design (I am complaining about SailfishOS 2.0, but that's nothing compared to UT's side and bottom swipes).

I'll see

Alarm doesn't go off when the phone is turned off.

Never used the alarm function on any of my phones :)

The focus on Web apps and its effect on the native app
situation.

Is there? QML, etc. are also going in this direction. Whats the difference?

Last time I heard, it was nowhere near the functionality completion or optimization of SailfishOS.

Sounds like speculation

After the Ubuntu Edge con and the issue with Ubuntu (Desktop) automatically sending your searches to Amazon (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/24/ubuntu_amazon_suggestions/) for search suggestions, I wouldn't rely on it for my data/privacy

I will look into that.

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-20, 11:15

i can confirm that even on nexus 5 ubunti is so far to be optimized..but his ui is not bad,but is nice, organized in scopes, even if i prefer much more sailfish os' one...many apps are only local version of site.. multitasking is not absolutely necessary but is beautiful and could be useful for example when i open some webpage i make other things when i am waiting it loads.

i really prefer behaviour of sailfish jolla wich,even if not open source completely, about core and other than ui components truly give an hand to oss. neither jolla neither canonical seem to be perfect under this field, however,for different matters

Jedibeeftrix

2015-09-20, 11:34

I personally pay more for a jolla device than shitty android devices and the reason is simple:

Jolla can not compete will big manufacturers with lower prices. I am sure you are not ripped off by Jolla. It is probably the other way around. Not sure investors has got all money back from selling the phones yet.

it is not an acceptable compromise. compete or die.

they managed to provide good value with the tablet, it is as expesnive as an ipad mini but the spec and quaility merit it. i bought one.

the phone is simply inadequate for the price listed. that simple.

mosen

2015-09-20, 11:51

the phone is simply inadequate for the price listed. that simple.

Just bought a shine new Stella Jolla 12 days ago and got the FatEggs delivery notice for Tomorrow :D
I see a big chunk of the 250€ pricetag to be a support in Software development!
When the "Out of Stock" notice appeard in Shop somewhen in beginning of September i nearly got a heartattack from a vision of Jolla not beeing able to supply any phone next year to replace my dying 12/13 Jolla.
I rushed to "check out" when it was marked available again some days later.
Stella now makes my TOH collection complete, my girls will love it :cool:
Ah, yes beside the obvious brag i just wanted to confirm they still seem to deliver.

Copernicus

2015-09-20, 11:53

it is not an acceptable compromise. compete or die.

You're absolutely right, no electronics hardware company can possibly sell their hardware at a higher price than the competition and survive. People will always buy the cheapest hardware available, because there's no other difference between the devices that hardware companies make other than the hardware itself. Gosh, I can't believe Jolla really considers itself a proper mobile device manufacturing company.

;)

pichlo

2015-09-20, 12:20

...my dying 12/13 Jolla.

Come to think of it, that is not a very good advertisements. Not quite even 2 years old yet and already "dying"? That's actually pretty bad if you ask me. All my N900s are still going strong with no sign of dying. The Treo 600 I had before I used for 9 years and, even though it had suffered some knocks and bruises, it is still going strong. As are some devices in my museum (Sharp PC-1500, HP-90LX, HP-200LX...).

A barely 2 years old device dying? Not good. Not good at all.

hardy_magnus

2015-09-20, 12:41

250 € for jolla, I can get 2 yu yureka plus phones for the same price. well intex phone with sailfish os is on its way and I will buy it . it will be out in a month or two. its intex so it will be cheap but the only down side is the cheap build quality.

mosen

2015-09-20, 14:14

I am working in a kitchen... N900s lastet 1/2 year each, i had 3 in a row, two of them completely smashed.

Jolla hit the tile floor so often i can not count anymore, so it is quite the opposite :rolleyes:
No need to take my special usecase to scale on general longlivity of jolla. But yes, better to explain with a picture:
http://mosushi.net/misc/jolla_scratch.jpg

ste-phan

2015-09-20, 14:30

I see a big chunk of the 250€ pricetag to be a support in Software development!

Same here. I would like to see it as 80 Euro Sailfish OS + 170 Euro Jolla hardware.

Good software does not need to be given for free (even if it were open source)

Bundyo

2015-09-20, 14:38

You're absolutely right, no electronics hardware company can possibly sell their hardware at a higher price than the competition and survive. People will always buy the cheapest hardware available, because there's no other difference between the devices that hardware companies make other than the hardware itself. Gosh, I can't believe Jolla really considers itself a proper mobile device manufacturing company.

;)
You should check the fruit company then ;) And yes, the hardware is not making the difference - the OS is...

szymeczek34

2015-09-20, 14:44

After Jolla I went back to N9. I have tried Nexus 4, BB Z10, Lumia 820, now I got myself BB Q10 and it's quite good. I'm gonna stick with it till a good Sailfish replacement is available.

gaelic

2015-09-20, 15:21

Same here. I would like to see it as 80 Euro Sailfish OS + 170 Euro Jolla hardware.

Good software does not need to be given for free (even if it were open source)

The Problem is that the Hardware is nowadays worth around 70€.So 150€ would be an acceptable price for a two year old phone.

Nevertheless, looking forward on the Ubuntu Phone and the Jolla Tablet.

Jedibeeftrix

2015-09-20, 15:56

I see a big chunk of the 250€ pricetag to be a support in Software development!

me too. only for me the 250 euros was spent on the tablet, which i consider to be worth the investment. :)

Jedibeeftrix

2015-09-20, 15:57

You should check the fruit company then ;) And yes, the hardware is not making the difference - the OS is...

happy to agree, which is why I am here.

but that does little to change the value proposition of the jolla phone selling at that price at the end of 2015. :)

pichlo

2015-09-20, 16:41

No need to take my special usecase to scale on general longlivity of jolla.

I did not specify who your use case reflects on ;) It could be the manufacturer or the user. We have a saying, "look after your things and they will look after you." Of course, working in a tough environment does not help. My ex-gf was a potter; you can imagine how her phones looked after a few calls with her hands covered in clay.

FWIW, my own Jolla from Dec 2013 still looks like new, bar one dent. I am the second owner. The first owner was a First One.

mosen

2015-09-20, 17:19

I did not specify who your use case reflects on ;)
And to further elaborate to clear my previous statement up. Also my Jolla would have met the inevitable fate of its n900 predecessors for sure if not my wife was a quicker thinker than me and rewarded me with a plantronics legend headset last christmas ;)
Her 08/14 jolla is also in mint condition.

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-20, 17:25

how you guys convinced your wife to jolla? usually,but not mandatory, girls are less interested in tech and dont care about open source or oses

nodevel

2015-09-20, 18:01

how you guys convinced your wife to jolla? usually,but not mandatory, girls are less interested in tech and dont care about open source or oses

How? I'll speak just for myself and my convincing, but pretty much no convincing is necessary - SailfishOS that comes on current Jolla phones is easy to use, intuitive and can run Android apps, so no disadvantages over mainstream phones, just advantages. So the convincing was pretty easy - "try my Jolla and see if you like it" :) Of course TOH and Ambiance features were the main selling points ;)

The only difference is that less tech-focused people will likely not complain about shortcomings of SailfishOS that are usually discussed on this forum (CalDAV, SIP, FLOSS).

mosen

2015-09-20, 18:02

how you guys convinced your wife to jolla? usually,but not mandatory, girls are less interested in tech and dont care about open source or oses
To me it is proof that Sailfish is totally "sufficiant" for daily use.
If you are not pre-influenced by A:"SpecMania", B:"Earlier Usage Paradigms" and C:"iOS & Android Fanboyism" that is.
She was a total smartphone noob and just used mobiles for banking TANs and calling. Now she is using more online services than ever and even tweets.
I just set her up all email and social media and she never complained about a thing but is bragging among her girls with a unique phone experience with nice lastu candy :D
Ok, i can see that being turned into "my wife is not very demanding when it comes to functionality, so a jolla is sufficiant", but maybe those functions are simply not "that" necessary to common people.

lkravovicz

2015-09-20, 18:04

how you guys convinced your wife to jolla? usually,but not mandatory, girls are less interested in tech and dont care about open source or oses

SFOS and Jolla hardware is not ready for this level of adoption yet. Once you see how quickly everything moves on iOS, they simply will not put up with Jolla. We are on the new platform because we understand the long term consequences of living in the world where only choice is Android or iOS, and it'll likely be just us until we've worked the quality of the experience up to feel at least near-equal to iOS.

(Personal multi-year gifting experience with N9)

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-20, 18:17

i have to say thar i dont like ios so much,is fluid and simple,but for me isnt intuitive..maybe i am strange. sure is better than android in this way,but i have found Windows phone more easier to use..after sailfish

quite OT: on tmo most of all say that n9 is still better than jolla as usability...this may be for nostalgic reasons and habits, so i would like to try the opposite path . i use sailfish everyday but i have never tried n9 yet...theres a way to install it on n5? dont wanna buy n9

ste-phan

2015-09-20, 18:58

how you guys convinced your wife to jolla? usually,but not mandatory, girls are less interested in tech and dont care about open source or oses

She wouldn't want the Jolla, even when given. The Jolla seemed too complicated for her (in other words, she feels she is too busy and not interested in trying new tech toys at all that may slow down here daily habits)
Then the Samsung broke down out of warranty and she had no choice but trying the Jolla as a replacement.

Luckily the Sailfish OS at the time was mature enough.

Among the checklist of absolute basic requirements:

Skype
SIP

Both can work but need Android solutions. Used CSIPSimple for SIP.
Shame it was not included by Jolla.

I discovered Jockr for Flickr, nice native program!

Some VPN connection with office exchange server I chose not to install.

Gave here a Lastu leather + birch wood case which I found not so convenient and after a week she loved the phone with this combo and she dropped it hard (a habbit she has with new things) on the aluminum corners but it survived :)

Only negative comment I have received is that sometimes the call doesn't get through but I guess it is a problem with 4G. Also SMS sometimes don't get delivered , most likely due to same reason.

Conclusion, Sailfish is not hard to use, but as you say, most women have other interests.

vistaus

2015-09-20, 19:02

SFOS and Jolla hardware is not ready for this level of adoption yet. Once you see how quickly everything moves on iOS, they simply will not put up with Jolla. We are on the new platform because we understand the long term consequences of living in the world where only choice is Android or iOS, and it'll likely be just us until we've worked the quality of the experience up to feel at least near-equal to iOS.

(Personal multi-year gifting experience with N9)

My mum likes SOS but she's too addicted to BB10 to fully switch but she does use the Jolla Phone to play around every once in a while. My mum doesn't like iOS at all (she tried it out in store a few times), BB10 is her great love :) (and mine as well, SOS my 2nd) My dad is a 'dumb' smartphone user but he loves SOS on his Jolla Phone.
My grandma is a 'dumb' smartphone user as well but she uses Windows Phone, just like my grandpa (but he is a tech guy though).

And yes, I'm telling in the truth, this is not a made-up story.

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-20, 19:44

ste-phan, but now she's using jolla?

vistaus, your dad sos,your mum bb10 (im going to try it in the future) , what a tech family! you should have also a pet robot, i guess!!

vistaus

2015-09-20, 20:28

ste-phan, but now she's using jolla?

vistaus, your dad sos,your mum bb10 (im going to try it in the future) , what a tech family! you should have also a pet robot, i guess!!

Like I said: my dad is not a tech person. My mum is in between tech and non-tech, tbh. And I have a normal cat as a pet ;)

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-20, 20:49

i was simply joking! however can claim that they are, if i compare them to mine.
my mum who use an android samsung phone (we,facking bastards) makes unvuluntary calls and send void sms; everytime i have to rexplain how to use it. my dad uses an s5; i am gonna tell u only that he fighted with his device just to deactivate senior mode with giant buttons and less options/apps, that my brother had previously activsted in order to prevent damages. ahahaha

MartinK

2015-09-20, 23:40

And the reasons? Mind that they are just my opinion:

Canonical and their attitude towards the rest of the Linux/FOSS world. This (http://mer-project.blogspot.fi/2013/04/wayland-utilizing-android-gpu-drivers.html) is one good example. I do not want to support such attitude.
Mir (related to the previous point)
No multitasking
Unintuitive design (I am complaining about SailfishOS 2.0, but that's nothing compared to UT's side and bottom swipes).
Alarm doesn't go off when the phone is turned off.
The focus on Web apps and its effect on the native app situation.
Last time I heard, it was nowhere near the functionality completion or optimization of SailfishOS.
After the Ubuntu Edge con and the issue with Ubuntu (Desktop) automatically sending your searches to Amazon (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/24/ubuntu_amazon_suggestions/) for search suggestions, I wouldn't rely on it for my data/privacy.

Another things to add to the list:

Forking of the Trojita email client because they can't be bothered to work with upstream... (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgxNDc)
the universally loved Ubuntu CLA (https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/35969.html)

juiceme

2015-09-21, 05:12

But yes, better to explain with a picture:
http://mosushi.net/misc/jolla_scratch.jpg

Ohh, You have the same color combination iin TOHKBD2 as I do :D
(only luckily my phone is not so battered as yours...)

aegis

2015-09-21, 10:41

You're absolutely right, no electronics hardware company can possibly sell their hardware at a higher price than the competition and survive.

I presume you're joking here.

ste-phan

2015-09-21, 11:10

ste-phan, but now she's using jolla?

Not sure what you like to hear but of course it is being use for calling, like a phone, as mobile internet device for surfing new sites, communication with overseas destinations over Skype / SIP, Navigation with Here for Android, as a camera and to play one native Sailfish game.

Installed this facebook account under Sailfish out of curiousity but finally the facebook beast seemed to be easier to control via the mobile web site.

Mobile browser of choice: Firefox for Android.

Copernicus

2015-09-21, 11:18

I presume you're joking here.

Yah, I'm being silly. But I'm trying to make a point: there's more to life than living every single moment on the bleeding edge. You just don't need to throw away your existing computing devices and buy new ones every month or two... ;)

NokiaFanatic

2015-09-21, 11:33

Mobile browser of choice: Firefox for Android.
Opera Android works even better in my experience.

Jedibeeftrix

2015-09-21, 11:34

Yah, I'm being silly. But I'm trying to make a point: there's more to life than living every single moment on the bleeding edge. You just don't need to throw away your existing computing devices and buy new ones every month or two... ;)

indeed not, but every year or two seems far more common.

companies that persuade people to part with large sums for the devices ususally have a good explanation for why that cost is justified...

NokiaFanatic

2015-09-21, 12:14

Copernicus

2015-09-21, 12:27

I think you'd be crazy to spend €250 on a new one as it's slow now and certainly isn't going to be getting faster.

Yes, of course, you'd be crazy to buy a slow phone that you'll love when you could get a fast one that you'll hate.

;)

chenliangchen

2015-09-21, 12:31

To me it is proof that Sailfish is totally "sufficiant" for daily use.
If you are not pre-influenced by A:"SpecMania", B:"Earlier Usage Paradigms" and C:"iOS & Android Fanboyism" that is.
She was a total smartphone noob and just used mobiles for banking TANs and calling. Now she is using more online services than ever and even tweets.
I just set her up all email and social media and she never complained about a thing but is bragging among her girls with a unique phone experience with nice lastu candy :D
Ok, i can see that being turned into "my wife is not very demanding when it comes to functionality, so a jolla is sufficiant", but maybe those functions are simply not "that" necessary to common people.

You are lucky! I was trying to provide her a Jolla to pull her away from the darkside of universe (iOS) but ends up a spare Jolla in my hand...

ste-phan

2015-09-21, 12:39

I cannot criticise Jolla for the build quality. I've dropped mine many times and other than having a few dings, it's been a warrior. Having said that, I think you'd be crazy to spend €250 on a new one as it's slow now and certainly isn't going to be getting faster.

Same experience here to my surprise.

However you should not "drop it wrong" ;)

https://together.jolla.com/question/110785/dont-drop-your-phone/

Opera Android works even better in my experience.

From Firefox I would be missing plug ins: Self-Destructing cookies, uBlock (adblocker)

(night) reading mode

It's lightning fast and when I see something interesting I can save it as PDF for later reference (weblinks do die)

Just having to use the Android back button is somewhat inconvenient due to its location.

ste-phan

2015-09-21, 12:53

Fairphone 1 or 2.

"A second path we are exploring is the possibility of replacing the Android software by alternative operating systems (Ubuntu OS/Firefox OS/Sailfish OS) in an effort to prolong the life of the device (as that software is more cost-effective to maintain)"

https://www.fairphone.com/2015/09/16/long-term-software-support-fairphone-1/

"The good news is that Sailfish 2.0 is ready to license to hardware vendors and OEMs, providing one path for the possibility of porting Jolla to the next Fairphone."

"If you are concerned about security on your phone, Jolla has announced a partnership with SSH Communications Security to create a “Sailfish Secure” version of their OS, a secure mobile platform. Jolla informed me that although there are no specifics to discuss yet, they are aiming to have first solutions out during 2016, which also depends on the potential end-customers.

One issue raised by our community is how open Sailfish OS really is. While it is built on an open source core, it still remains somewhat proprietary, which may be a concern for some community members. "

https://www.fairphone.com/2015/03/17/looking-for-an-open-operating-system-at-mobile-world-congress-2015/

63% out of (only) 361 voters votes for Sailfish OS in this poll

https://forum.fairphone.com/t/poll-if-you-could-install-any-mobile-operating-system/6593

I think it is time to help Jolla choose sides , it is clear to me that Fairphone is ready to choose them if some concerns about openness and security are being solved.

Needless to say, Jolla as it stands is already the most fair company compared to Android Google.

lantern

2015-09-21, 17:38

I have a feeling we won't see Intex sailfish phone.

vistaus

2015-09-21, 18:11

Same experience here to my surprise.

However you should not "drop it wrong" ;)

https://together.jolla.com/question/110785/dont-drop-your-phone/

From Firefox I would be missing plug ins: Self-Destructing cookies, uBlock (adblocker)

(night) reading mode

It's lightning fast and when I see something interesting I can save it as PDF for later reference (weblinks do die)

Just having to use the Android back button is somewhat inconvenient due to its location.

Native browser WebPirate has ad blocking and night reading mode built in.

ste-phan

2015-09-21, 19:06

Native browser WebPirate has ad blocking and night reading mode built in.

Thanks, that is true and I (try to) use it as well but its not fluid and fast like Firefox.. (and PDF and) If you have Android support installed and are not using other heavy Android programs concurrently, there is really no reason to not use Firefox for the web.

If a Jolla successor opts for not to include Alien Dalvik license I will miss Firefox. Wish one day it would land in native form on Sailfish.

szopin

2015-09-21, 19:52

Thanks, that is true and I (try to) use it as well but its not fluid and fast like Firefox.. (and PDF and) If you have Android support installed and are not using other heavy Android programs concurrently, there is really no reason to not use Firefox for the web.

If a Jolla successor opts for not to include Alien Dalvik license I will miss Firefox. Wish one day it would land in native form on Sailfish.

Revert to 1.0.5 or around that, install adblock plus, native browser is quick and fluid (at some point addon installation got borked, oh well), hopefully the new chrome based one will allow u/adblock, even apple is doing it now, so maybe the heads up there will consider it

SKyd3R

2015-09-22, 08:51

Is it worth the waiting for a new Sailfish device or should I recommend to buy the Jolla MK1?

gaelic

2015-09-22, 09:10

Is it worth the waiting for a new Sailfish device or should I recommend to buy the Jolla MK1?

That is the main questions:

- spend 250€ on outdated hardware
- wait for a new device (which may 'never' come)

I found my solution for the time being as I'm not willing to spend more than 150 or maybe 180.

itdoesntmatt

2015-09-22, 09:51

or maybe buy some multibootable phone for wich sailfish was ported...but if u dont need android apps,sure.

nodevel

2015-09-22, 10:15

Is it worth the waiting for a new Sailfish device or should I recommend to buy the Jolla MK1?

I'd just buy a used Jolla for ~100EUR and sell it if something newer comes out. I absolutely disagree with all those "outdated hardware" claims - hardware is currently just a commodity, so the software is what makes the difference.

Even if there was no SailfishOS on Jolla, the design, durability and TOH functionality is nice enough to think about it. With SailfishOS (optimized for the phone and getting periodical releases) on it, it is an incredible device with little competition on the market.

And outdated hardware? Give me a break. I don't see what I'd need a 4K screen or 16-core CPU for. I'll take an optimized system over a 40Mpx camera any day.

ste-phan

2015-09-22, 10:42

With SailfishOS (optimized for the phone and getting periodical releases) on it, it is an incredible device with little competition on the market.

Haven't been following all that, but is 2.0 going to be a forced upgrade on the phone?
In other words, if you want the latest security and application you will be needing 2.0 or not.

Leaving people choosing to stay with 1.0 in the N900 category of using dead and insecure OS?

In your opinion, which Sailfish update or version was the best optimized Sailfish for this MK1 Jolla phone so far?

And can you install all applications on it? Something like call recorder might not install on any version.

pichlo

2015-09-22, 10:56

I'd just buy a used Jolla for ~100EUR and sell it if something newer comes out.

Seconded.

And outdated hardware? Give me a break. I don't see what I'd need a 4K screen or 16-core CPU for.

Amen!

(OTOH, playing a devil's advocate, I can see where they are coming from. All other things being equal, a choice between a poorer HW spec for €250 or a better one for €150 is a no-brainer. The question of course is, are all other things being equal?)

I'll take an optimized system over a 40Mpx camera any day.

This is the sticky point. SFOS should be more optimised. After all, it runs native applications, not virtualised like some other OSes. Yet increasing OOM problems with every OS update suggest that optimising is not on top of their priority list :(

ste-phan

2015-09-22, 11:14

Yet increasing OOM problems with every OS update suggest that optimising is not on top of their priority list :(

This.

Still remember our family's iPad 1 32GB 3G whatever, it was a gift :o

Setup full of useful software, and being used for study and work for about 2 years..

until somebody got bored and decided to press update and the device became junk. Slower OS, some software no longer compatible etc..

I'm thinking to find check the best Sailfish (memory it was around end of 2014 where these OOM issues started to really show.) Revert to it and see which software can still be installed, then remove Jolla account and just use the damn thing until it disintegrates. :D

gaelic

2015-09-22, 11:38

I'd just buy a used Jolla for ~100EUR and sell it if something newer comes out. I absolutely disagree with all those "outdated hardware" claims - hardware is currently just a commodity, so the software is what makes the difference.

Even if there was no SailfishOS on Jolla, the design, durability and TOH functionality is nice enough to think about it. With SailfishOS (optimized for the phone and getting periodical releases) on it, it is an incredible device with little competition on the market.

And outdated hardware? Give me a break. I don't see what I'd need a 4K screen or 16-core CPU for. I'll take an optimized system over a 40Mpx camera any day.

The hardware is still outdated, whether you think differrent or not. Outdated doesn not neccessarily mean bad hardware. But for 200+ € it is outdated. As simple as that.

juiceme

2015-09-22, 11:44

The hardware is still outdated, whether you think differrent or not. Outdated doesn not neccessarily mean bad hardware. But for 200+ € it is outdated. As simple as that.

Not necessarily.
There are quite a few "outdated" car models for example that sell for higher price than when originally rolled off from the factory.

Jedibeeftrix

2015-09-22, 11:59

And outdated hardware? Give me a break. I don't see what I'd need a 4K screen or 16-core CPU for. I'll take an optimized system over a 40Mpx camera any day.

generally i agree; it is the software that matters.
but I think you are guilty of posing a wildly exagerated argument that no-one is really advocating.

q) has anyone asked for a phablet sized 4k screen?
a) no, just something midrange size and res, with good brightness and contrast for reading.

q) has anyone asked for a 16core CPU?
a) no, but 2GB of memory for a multitasking OS would have been nice given the OOM problems.

q) has anyone asked for a 40mpix camer?
a) no, but something that can take a non-blurry pic in anything but perfect studio lighting would be great.

these are absolute problems, that exist regardless of the price you sell the device at.

aside from the absolute problems there are also the relative problems that arise from comparison with similar devices. here the J1 has a growing problem given the remoreless march of new £150/$200 android devices.

NokiaFanatic

2015-10-14, 16:02

So here we are, coming up to the two year anniversary of the Jolla phone release. I am still using mine - but won't be for long, unless we get a successor.

Rauha

2015-10-14, 22:46

I've generaly really like my Jolla phone. I still use it like as my only phone. But I don't really see much future for Jolla. The biggest problem is that it is just too late. Too, too, too and the some too late. The whole smartphone market has allready been 'solved'. Few years ago in fact.

Jolla has just about as much hope as anyone trying to break into into the car market as a new mainstream car brand. Its no going to happen. Its Android for most of the people, Apple for the rest. Thats it. Maybe few years ago it would have been possible. People just don't find phones exiting enough anymore to try anything new. The whole thing is settled by now.

I guess maemonians might object with whatever open source/free software/whatever idealism, but that won't work either. Just look the last 20+ years of Linux trying to be something at the consumer market with nothing to show for it (and no, Android doesn't count as Linux).

Again, Im still happy with my phone. Overly optimisticly hoping that there would be a follow up, but I don't see one coming. At best, there might be something coming from Jolla's immoral partnership with the russian goverment, but I don't see that going anywhere either. And even if it sold few copies in russia, it would still crash once the russian peasants finally get sick enough with all the looting of national wealth, corruption, lies, propaganda and wars that come with Putin's rule and all western busineses (like Jolla) that made deals with the blood thristy bastard.

robthebold

2015-10-14, 23:32

Jolla has just about as much hope as anyone trying to break into into the car market as a new mainstream car brand. Its no going to happen. Its Android for most of the people, Apple for the rest. Thats it. Maybe few years ago it would have been possible. People just don't find phones exiting enough anymore to try anything new. The whole thing is settled by now.

Well don't just stand there: go get that searchlight Elon Musk left us in case another entrenched market needed to be disrupted and meet me on the roof of city hall! Hurry, we don't have much time!

pichlo

2015-10-15, 08:51

The biggest problem is that it is just too late.

You forgot too little. Too little too late. Apple could afford to launch with no copy&paste because there was no alternative. Anyone who comes and wants to break the water today cannot behave so nonchalantly. Half-baked systems just don't excite anyone any more.

JulmaHerra

2015-10-15, 09:28

Practically that means that there is no hope for anything different anymore and world will be owned by Android and Apple forever, until there are no more mobile devices. Of course, assuming that it's true.

pichlo

2015-10-15, 09:36

No, it means that newcomers have to try harder. And, most importantly, they must know what they are doing.

JulmaHerra

2015-10-15, 09:56

No. There will be no newcomer with enough funding, time and just about anything else to break through if the feature set has to be similar to those systems developed with big money for over decade bundled with services run with even bigger money. There will always be someone to say "features X and Y are missing, so they don't know what they are doing, they cannot even remotely think to break the water with such behaviour..."

So, enjoy it while it lasts.

tortoisedoc

2015-10-15, 10:00

aegis

2015-10-15, 10:07

It's easy for us armchair CEOs to state what Jolla or other companies need to do. Behind the scenes I'm sure it's way more complicated than the seemingly simple requests of a new phone model or ports to other hardware or opening up more api.

It seems to me that one small company isn't going to disrupt the status quo without massive developer community engagement and Jolla haven't been that great at that despite the marketing.

itdoesntmatt

2015-10-15, 10:33

if i still use sailfish and not ios or android it means that i find in it something that others dont give me..i know sfos has some missing features,some of them very simple but important. but,apart for acute critics that are driven by emotions,i understand they are small, and without money,and that they are doing as well as they can. i dislike this pessimism and this lacking of empathy in this difficult journey...sure we are fan not groupie,so critics are useful and welcomed, but have to being made in a really positive way

itdoesntmatt

2015-10-15, 10:38

e.g opensourcing request..i know it wou'd bw great for us, but let's look form another pov. they have to protect their efforts in some way, almost until they will be happy with a stable monetizing strategy..if google had created android before google services, i guess it would be not so easy to earn money from it...since others like cyanogen could have set domination on android itself

an appropriate critic could be for battery unavailability, since it is a matter of respect for buyers..they could have produced some batch with crowdfounding ..or just suggest some compatible ones, assuming responsability..and they srsly have to improve communication avoiding abusing of word soon, but thats another story

pichlo

2015-10-15, 10:56

if i still use sailfish and not ios or android it means that i find in it something that others dont give me.

Perhaps we need a new thread on the topic: "What makes Sailfish attractive for you?" Though perhaps better not here but over at TJC.

itdoesntmatt

2015-10-15, 11:06

i dont like tjc,since they listen only what they want to listen. in addiction, site's design is confusional and not as simple as this one

chenliangchen

2015-10-15, 11:58

i dont like tjc,since they listen only what they want to listen. in addiction, site's design is confusional and not as simple as this one

The only pros at TJC is occationally some Jolla staff might appear and give some useful info.

Other than that it's like another iFans site which provides limited real information rather than unrealistic zealousness.

mosen

2015-10-15, 12:37

The whole smartphone market has allready been 'solved'. Few years ago in fact 5 years ago.

Correct, thats why Jolla does not focus on consumers direktly but tries to license to 3rd parties with special interest.

Just look the last 20+ years of Linux trying to be something at the consumer market with nothing to show for it (and no, Android doesn't count as Linux).

also correct, only the past Linux projects lacked a proper ui as biggest "selling point" to casual users.
History shows that attractive UIs can not be born by FOSS projects (too many cooks pradigm), so my hope is still on Jolla to glance in that special field on a "possibly" long run.

Overly optimisticly hoping that there would be a follow up,...

As we all where. I for my part realized that my hopes where based on false assumptions and "Dunning Kruger Effect" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect). Sure it all looks like an easy task for us Armchair CEOs. Until you try to do business yourselfe...

At best, there might be something coming from Jolla's immoral partnership with the russian goverment

Maan, you lost me here. Please do not spread a onesided view.
As this is the case with most political views, please just leave them out of technical discussions completely.

If you base your business on licensing your os worldwide, minus usa, there are not many attractive markets left but china, russia and the african and south american continent. As you said. the smartphonemarket is already settled, and this much more in the us and europe than in other parts of the world. Maybe those that are "some years behind" in developement by "western" standards yield many more chances for business than the ones we are familiar with?

itdoesntmatt

2015-10-15, 16:06

agree with u mosen. and let me say that, even if it is clear that russia is not a model of democracy ( political oppositor, dishuman treatment vs gay people, etc)..unfortunately for usa is the same, but in more hidden way..let's think about nsa, the torture imposed to assange and fund blocking for donation to wikileaks by mastercard and visa ( bank America ), paypal...and sure political pressure. i think the only little light of democracy is represented by European countries...(not UE burocrazy, i remark this)...sorry for OT

vinca

2015-10-16, 11:41

So will we ever see a Jolla phone successor? Even if they announced one before the end of the year, it'd probably take 18 months before we get a hands on. And by then the specs would be 2 years out of date.

Copernicus

2015-10-16, 11:45

So will we ever see a Jolla phone successor?

I believe that Jolla never wanted to be a hardware manufacturer in the first place. Their true product is Sailfish, and they want to sell that product to manufacturers who would themselves create phones. So the Jolla Phone itself is a one-off, and future phones should come from companies like Intex.

JulmaHerra

2015-10-16, 12:08

In the long run HW manufacturing will most likely cease, but I find it hard to believe that it would happen before there are additional manufacturers covering more than single country or continent. They have hinted that there might be something cooking and separation of HW development to different company also points towards that direction. Hopefully there is refresh coming... rather sooner than later.

pichlo

2015-10-16, 12:33

I believe that Jolla never wanted to be a hardware manufacturer in the first place. Their true product is Sailfish, and they want to sell that product to manufacturers who would themselves create phones. So the Jolla Phone itself is a one-off, and future phones should come from companies like Intex.

It certainly looks more and more like that with every passing day. But it did not look like that at the beginning. If the product they are selling is the software, then the common sense would suggest presenting it on a bog-standard, pure-reference-design hardware. This is the case with the tablet but the phone and its TOH concept deviates from the standard (if only a little) and, for quite some time, they were pushing the TOH concept like the best thing since sliced bread. Either they changed their mind some time in the past two years or they were sending out mixed messages ;)

Having said that, I agree with you. I do not expect any new phone coming out of Jolla Oy.

MisterMaster

2015-10-16, 12:39

Having said that, I agree with you. I do not expect any new phone coming out of Jolla Oy.

Well that is no surprise at all. Jolla said that long time ago.

But lets hope that Jolla Mobile Oy(or whatever it is going to be called in the future) brings a new phone.

MartinK

2015-10-16, 12:44

for quite some time, they were pushing the TOH concept like the best thing since sliced bread. Either they changed their mind some time in the past two years or they were sending out mixed messages ;)

I don't think they really ever actively pushed the ToH concept - other well, other than that video from May 2013. If they really pushed it they would release (or partner with someone to release) some active hardware making use of the interface rather than just colored pieces of plastic.

Jolla did cooperate with the ToHKBD project, but that is still far from what could be done, such as helping to market the third party ToHs, selling them in the Jolla web store, etc.

mosen

2015-10-16, 13:17

Jolla did cooperate with the ToHKBD project, but that is still far from what could be done, such as helping to market the third party ToHs, selling them in the Jolla web store, etc.

What to make of this statement by Antti saarnio from July then?
We are very committed to build and conquer with Sailfish OS and we also want Jolla devices to show its full potential (with TOH). Thats why were are brave enough to me bold, Unlike moves ;)
whole statement (https://together.jolla.com/question/98391/jolla-corporate-refocus/?answer=98520#post-id-98520)

pichlo

2015-10-16, 14:06

If they really pushed it they would release (or partner with someone to release) some active hardware making use of the interface rather than just colored pieces of plastic.

Maybe I am completely wrong but my reading of the Jolla's website is that that coloured piece of plastic is what makes them stand out.
"What makes us so unique, you ask? It is 1) a gesture based OS and 2) the TOH concept."

If that was not the intention then they completely misfired, at least with me :)

But then, marketing campaigns often do. Remember the youghurt TV commercial from a few years ago? They were running a "feel better in a week or your money back" campaign. A woman came to claim the refund and they showed her a secret footage, obtained by cameras hidden in dogs' collars, babies' bottles etc, of her doing all sorts of funky stuff. My reading of that ad was not, "we are so confident, we will gve you your money back". No, it was, "we will stop at nothing to prevent giving you your money back."

marxian

2015-10-16, 14:41

http://marxoft.co.uk/static/images/sailfish/otherhalf.jpg

Pim

2015-10-16, 15:58

So the Jolla Phone itself is a one-off, and future phones should come from companies like Intex.

Yes, and as Intex (to my knowledge) isn't selling into Europe itself, then Jolla (or their hardware spin-off) could still strike a deal with them to be able to resell their product with as only difference/customization a cover that says Jolla but has all the internals identical to the product for the indian market. That would be much less risky than their own first phone which they designed (and had to fund the development of) themselves.

Within the next year or so, Jolla's current fanbase (which I think is >90% in Europe) will start looking at their next phone, and I for one would happily buy a Jolla-rebranded Intex phone. Perhaps they are hoping for companies that want to offer phones in Europe, but the reality is that there aren't any. Furthermore Google and Microsoft show you can have your own product and partner products.

JulmaHerra

2015-10-16, 19:27

Hopefully they bring something better than just rebranded Intex phone. They already have some kind of reference platforms ranging from Snapdragon 200 to 800 series, so they should have at least something to build on. Another question is the Intel Atom X3 with LTE-modem, Jolla was specifically mentioned in Intel's press release, so there might be something in works with that platform also. Don't know how it will stack up with full HD display though, now that Tablet is shipping with 330ppi display, the next phone should showcase something seriously better than the current one.

ssahla

2015-10-16, 19:58

Remember the youghurt TV commercial from a few years ago? They were running a "feel better in a week or your money back" campaign. A woman came to claim the refund and they showed her a secret footage, obtained by cameras hidden in dogs' collars, babies' bottles etc, of her doing all sorts of funky stuff. My reading of that ad was not, "we are so confident, we will gve you your money back". No, it was, "we will stop at nothing to prevent giving you your money back."

Sorry for the offtopic, but do you have a source for this? :)

itdoesntmatt

2015-10-16, 20:25

JulmaHerra

2015-10-16, 20:27

what reference platforms? do you have some source for it?

https://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/55_SAILFISH_INDIA_PRESS_RELEASE_JULY2015_FINAL.PDF

To enable quick timeto-market for licensing partners, Jolla has developed a range of optimised Sailfish OS hardware platforms from Qualcomm’s Snapdragon 200/600/800 configurations, a highly scalable mobile processor family offering 4G LTE to everyone in all price ranges.

pichlo

2015-10-16, 20:29

Sorry for the offtopic, but do you have a source for this? :)

Sadly, no. The commercial was shown on TV for a long time but I spent half an hour on YouTube in vain searching for it :(

ssahla

2015-10-16, 20:35

Sadly, no. The commercial was shown on TV for a long time but I spent half an hour on YouTube in vain searching for it :(

Sorry for your wasted half an hour! I have to admit I read your story wrong; I thought there was a commercial promising "feel better in a week or money back" and then really someone tried to get her money back. That's why it sounded so incredible to me. But I guess that part of the story was in the commercial too. Stupid me :) [end of OT]

itdoesntmatt

2015-10-16, 20:39

https://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/55_SAILFISH_INDIA_PRESS_RELEASE_JULY2015_FINAL.PDF

To enable quick timeto-market for licensing partners, Jolla has developed a range of optimised Sailfish OS hardware platforms from Qualcomm’s Snapdragon 200/600/800 configurations, a highly scalable mobile processor family offering 4G LTE to everyone in all price ranges.

i dont trust claims,they said they were developing jolla phone 2, if someone still remember