View Full Version : Gemini PDA (the return of the Psion Series 5MX)
Jedibeeftrix
2017-02-28, 11:03
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/
Features:
Two weeks of stand-by time / 12 hours of talk time
Fully tactile keyboard - recognised as the smallest keyboard for finger touch typing
Measure: 17.1 cm x 8.0 cm x 1.35 cm
5.7” colour hi-res ultra-wide touch screen
Wifi & WiFi+4G mobile options
Weight: 400 g
Dual side mounted speakers
Dual USB-C connectors to connect to keyboards, external screens, mice, charging cables as needed and many more.
Integrated Voice Assist button
SD card slot (covered)
Software:
Gemini is powered by the latest Android OS, supporting all your favourite applications. A number of key applications will also be optimised for the landscape screen and physical keyboard.
Gemini will also support Linux as a secondary boot option which provides Linux users with the rich set of Open Source applications.
The software also supports voice recognition using the integrated Voice Assist smart button located on the right hand side of Gemini. You can interact with Gemini using voice commands, even when it is closed in your pocket.
Quick Facts
Gemini is an integrated keyboard mobile device that fits in your pocket
It features an ultra-thin metal clamshell design with a fully integrated QWERTY keyboard
Designed for Android, it also features a dual boot Linux option
4G & WiFi and WiFi only models are available - enabling both data communications and mobile phone calls
The large ultra-wide touchscreen and double-sized battery provide optimal usability and portability
Hey that looks nice...10 cores...I hope it's not...well **** ...MediaTek....nope..
such a misleading title....... Psion......
just to see Android. Again. :(
Jedibeeftrix
2017-02-28, 12:08
android [and] linux.
according a comment on the indiegogo page, they are at MWC and will go and talk to the Jolla peeps.
but it's not EPOC :(
Which is understandable. But anyway, I don't see the point in a device like that. Sure, HWK. But other than that?
Can't be used as a phone since there's no secondary screen like on communicators. It can but I for sure wouldn't want that.
To small to be laptop replacement. With or without linux.
It runs android so one already can do all that on the phone.
Make it a slider and then it is something.
but it's not EPOC :(
Which is understandable. But anyway, I don't see the point in a device like that. Sure, HWK. But other than that?
Can't be used as a phone since there's no secondary screen like on communicators. It can but I for sure wouldn't want that.
To small to be laptop replacement. With or without linux.
It runs android so one already can do all that on the phone.
Make it a slider and then it is something.
Well, how do people use phones?
With BT headset of course. (at least here we do :cool:)
Marshall Banana
2017-02-28, 13:31
Hey that looks nice...10 cores...I hope it's not...well **** ...MediaTek....nope..
Can somebody enlighten me what's the point of this design?
One low power co-proccessor for standby-stuff i could understand, but what's this good for:
2x Cortex A72 @2.5GHz
4x Cortex A53 @2.0GHz
4x Cortex A53 @1.55GHz
If i run a webserver on my pocket-computer or do heterogenous supercomputing?
Or is it for power management?
Well, how do people use phones?
With BT headset of course. (at least here we do :cool:)
Only if you're a self-facilitating media node.
I actually like the design. A 4G version would satisfy my communication needs when I don't want a phone - which has increased a lot lately. Just not a fan of the OS. Not fully.
Marshall Banana
2017-02-28, 13:56
Well, how do people use phones?
With BT headset of course. (at least here we do :cool:)
Side talking 2.0
I don't see the point in a device like that.
Don't buy it then. Simples.
Jedibeeftrix
2017-02-28, 14:15
Can somebody enlighten me what's the point of this design?
One low power co-proccessor for standby-stuff i could understand, but what's this good for:
2x Cortex A72 @2.5GHz
4x Cortex A53 @2.0GHz
4x Cortex A53 @1.55GHz
If i run a webserver on my pocket-computer or do heterogenous supercomputing?
Or is it for power management?
To quote Anand:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9227/mediatek-helio-x20
"I like to see MediaTek's tri-cluster approach as an extension to the existing dual A53 cluster designs - where the added A72 cluster is truly optimized for only the highest frequencies. Indeed, we are told that the A72 cluster can reach up to 2.5GHz on a TSMC 20nm process. ARM aims similar clocks for the A72 but at only 14/16nm FinFET processes, so to see MediaTek go this high on 20nm is impressive, even if it's only a two-core cluster. It will be interesting to see how MediaTek chooses the lower frequency limits on each cluster, especially the A72 CPUs, or how these options will be presented to OEMs.
The end-result is a promised 30% improvement in power consumption over a similar 2-cluster approach. This happens thanks to the finer granularity in the performance/power curve and an increase in available performance-power points for the scheduler to place a thread on. Having a process that is heavy enough that it is not capable of residing on the smallest cluster due to performance constraints, but not demanding enough to require the big cluster's full performance, can now reside on this medium cluster at much greater efficiency than had it been running on the big cluster at reduced clocks. MediaTek uses CorePilot as a custom developed scheduler implementation that is both power aware and very advanced (based on our internal testing of other MediaTek SoCs). My experience and research with it on existing devices was fairly positive, so I'm sure the X20's new v3.0 implementation of CorePilot will be able to take good advantage of the tri-cluster design.
The biggest question and need of clarification is in the area of what the MCSI (the interconnect) is capable of. ARM had announced its CCI-500 interconnect back in February, which incidentally also promised the capability of up to 4 CPU clusters. MediaTek hinted that this may be a design based on ARM's CCI - but we're still not sure if this means a loosely based design or a direct improvement of ARM's IP."
But I broadly agree, it seems a little OTT.
In the X20's favour:
A72 high perofmance cores.
Relatively modern 20nm fab process.
Vulkan capable graphics engine.
In the X20's deficit column:
It's Mtek, so traditionally poor linux driver support.
Don't buy it then. Simples.
there's nothing to buy anyway. You know how it usually ends up with those moneyasking projects.
Anyway, a slider like graalphone but without the stupid phone would interest me more. That GPD thingy also looks more interesting than this.
rcolistete
2017-02-28, 15:55
The Psion returns! Meet Gemini, the 21st century pocket computer
Psion, was a lion, in iron (Reg readers called it)
27 Feb 2017 at 13:49, Andrew Orlowski (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/27/the_psions_is_back_meet_gemini/)
...
Martin Riddiford, the designer of the Psion Series 3 and Series 5 keyboards, and co-founder of Therefore, has come up with an entirely new design for the 21st Century.
...
So one of the Psion Series 3/5 designers is involved in this Gemini project.
This project seems to be the answer to Reg poll 1st place :
Bring it BACK... with MODs! Psion 5 storms great tech revival poll
The AA-powered, pocket-sized touch daddy
24 Feb 2017 at 13:06, Gavin Clarke (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/24/revive_the_psion_5_series/)
rcolistete
2017-02-28, 19:04
More links about Gemini PDA :
http://www.planetcom.co.uk/
https://liliputing.com/2017/02/gemini-pda-like-tiny-androidlinux-laptop-premium-specs-crowdfunding.html
Well, how do people use phones?
With BT headset of course. (at least here we do :cool:)
Only if you're a self-facilitating media node.
I think you mean helpdesk worker? Nope, I'm a biker :D
rcolistete
2017-02-28, 21:09
android [and] linux.
according a comment on the indiegogo page, they are at MWC and will go and talk to the Jolla peeps.
More details (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone/x/9181876#/comments) :
pakman - 1 day ago
Linux + Android suggests that it might be possible to port SailfishOS to it? Is that a reasonable thought, or am I dreaming?
Davide Guidi - Campaigner - 1 day ago
Thanks for the comment, very interesting! We are at 4YFN, stand P4, at Mobile World Congress and we will go and visit the Jolla stand tomorrow. We have not considered it so far, but you never kno
Wow, imagine a Gemini PDA/Smartphone with Sailfish ?
I think you mean helpdesk worker? Nope, I'm a biker :D
Nope. I definitely meant self-facilitating media node.
Though of course you'd be using a Wasp T12 Speechtool, not a Gemini PDA, if you wanted to be totally Mexico.
I love it...
Just like i love my P11Z:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Sony-Vaio-VGN-P11Z-R-Mini-Notebook.16038.0.html
Are they coming back? :)
meego_leenooks1
2017-03-01, 07:50
I love it...
Just like i love my P11Z:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Sony-Vaio-VGN-P11Z-R-Mini-Notebook.16038.0.html
Are they coming back? :)
Take a look at GPD Pocket https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-pocket-7-0-umpc-laptop-ubuntu-or-win-10-os-laptop--2/x/16082729#/
Wow, imagine a Gemini PDA/Smartphone with Sailfish ?
I am imagining it but it fails to make me go "wow". More like "meh".
Sailfish is a good crutch when the device has an inferior user interface. But the Gemini has no need for such crutches, having been designed like a real computer. Why compromise? Put a real Linux on it, with a proper desktop UI. Oh wait, they did!
Nope. I definitely meant self-facilitating media node.
Though of course you'd be using a Wasp T12 Speechtool, not a Gemini PDA, if you wanted to be totally Mexico.
I could not find any info about that device, except that it is some kind of television fictional device? (not even from Mexico...)
I could not find any info about that device, except that it is some kind of television fictional device? (not even from Mexico...)
It's from a TV show from about 10 years ago, which incidentally managed to relatively accurately predict the future (https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/feb/10/nathan-barley-charlie-brooker-east-london-comedy), which seems to be a recurring theme in Charlie Brooker productions.
Chris Morris too.
I remember watching The Day Today (a fake news programme) the first time around, and thinking how hilarious the ludicrous excess of the CGI intro / ident bits was.
Watching it today for the first time you might well miss the joke, because that's exactly what 24 hour TV news looks like...
rcolistete
2017-03-01, 14:06
Gemini PDA project has hit its Indiegogo goal (USD 200,000) after 2 days !
rcolistete
2017-03-01, 14:11
I am imagining it but it fails to make me go "wow". More like "meh".
Sailfish is a good crutch when the device has an inferior user interface. But the Gemini has no need for such crutches, having been designed like a real computer. Why compromise? Put a real Linux on it, with a proper desktop UI. Oh wait, they did!
Gemini PDA is mainly an Android smartphone + qwerty mechanical keyboard. Linux is an option with dual boot.
So Sailfish OS would be an alternative to Android on Gemini.
And the Linux distribution which will be used by Gemini PDA is not yet decided.
meego_leenooks1
2017-03-01, 14:36
The keyboard has no F1-F12 keys and lacks a few symbol keys too. I doubt it could be really used as an UMPC with "real" Linux inside rather than usual Android.
rcolistete
2017-03-01, 17:05
This photos of Gemini PDA at MWC 2017 shows additional/different symbols for many keyboard keys :
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/return-of-the-psion-new-gemini-pda-is-a-retro-android-and-linux-delight
http://static.trustedreviews.com/94/00003d333/9b7b_orh616w616/psion-gemini.jpg
http://static.trustedreviews.com/94/00003d334/c70a_orh616w616/psion-gemini-1.jpg
But no F1-F12.
rcolistete
2017-03-01, 17:16
Wow, there is a "backlight" on space key ! :cool:
rcolistete
2017-03-01, 17:30
Youtube video : $299 Gemini PDA, QWERTY keyboard, PSION style, Helio-X25 Deca-core, 5.7" QHD, now on Indiegogo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKlOKIZp5YU)
Helio-X25 :eek: MTK :eek::eek::eek:
Known as great supporters of openess :rolleyes:
meego_leenooks1
2017-03-01, 18:21
This photos of Gemini PDA at MWC 2017 shows additional/different symbols for many keyboard keys :
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/return-of-the-psion-new-gemini-pda-is-a-retro-android-and-linux-delight
http://static.trustedreviews.com/94/00003d333/9b7b_orh616w616/psion-gemini.jpg
http://static.trustedreviews.com/94/00003d334/c70a_orh616w616/psion-gemini-1.jpg
But no F1-F12.
This is much better then. Indiegogo page has photos without Fn key and other symbols:
https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,f_auto,w_620/v1488034047/vmhu8gb0acx1atdgj0id.jpg
https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,f_auto,w_620/v1488034047/r17sk7ieqrwhxbdovbyp.jpg
rcolistete
2017-03-01, 18:52
The Gemini PDA keyboad layout is like Psion Series 5MX and Revo Plus :
http://www.timfg.com/uploads/1/0/2/8/10282067/4212406_orig.jpg
http://pdadb.net/img/psion_revo_plus.jpg
The 5MX keyboard is fabulous, it is the best I have ever used in a PDA device. And the power requirements of the thing are something to be envied today, it runs on 2 AA batteries for weeks in normal usage! :D
Granted, it only has greyscale display but it does run X11 on it fairly well. :p
The usability of 5MX as a communications device is slightly limited by the fact that there's no network interface, you can of course run SLIP over the RS232 interface but the 9600BPS limitation makes it a perfect piece to practice the virtue of patience on.
Fuzzillogic
2017-03-01, 22:04
No stylus support? Too bad. Everything that's not made for finger touch becomes unusable. Things like you know, every desktop application. Even though it would be capable of things like Gimp or LibreOffice, without precise control of the pointer, including hover support, to actually use it will be a source of frustration.
I've an Ubuntu Touch tablet, which is capable of running desktop applications as well. Even though its screen is much bigger, it is quite pointless without an external pointing device connected (pun intended).
Would love if it support wacom type pens. But If they can build it and it supports sailfish and linux I would consider buying it. I'm not interested in an android device.
Jedibeeftrix
2017-03-02, 08:24
No stylus support? Too bad. Everything that's not made for finger touch becomes unusable. Things like you know, every desktop application. Even though it would be capable of things like Gimp or LibreOffice, without precise control of the pointer, including hover support, to actually use it will be a source of frustration.
I've an Ubuntu Touch tablet, which is capable of running desktop applications as well. Even though its screen is much bigger, it is quite pointless without an external pointing device connected (pun intended).
good job clever people have been thinking about problems like this:
https://dot.kde.org/2017/01/12/kde-releases-kirigami-ui-20
No stylus support? Too bad. Everything that's not made for finger touch becomes unusable. Things like you know, every desktop application. Even though it would be capable of things like Gimp or LibreOffice, without precise control of the pointer, including hover support, to actually use it will be a source of frustration.
I've an Ubuntu Touch tablet, which is capable of running desktop applications as well. Even though its screen is much bigger, it is quite pointless without an external pointing device connected (pun intended).
GNOME 3 and GTK3 applications in general are quite usable with finger touch.
Fuzzillogic
2017-03-03, 00:06
good job clever people have been thinking about problems like this:
https://dot.kde.org/2017/01/12/kde-releases-kirigami-ui-20
Kirigami is nice, and certainly has merits for certain types of applications, but applications like Darktable, LibreOffice, Gimp or IDE's are not easily adapted for finger / handheld use while retaining full functionality without going through layers upon layers of selections and menus.
Given a proper stylus, those applications can be used without modifications on smaller screens.
rcolistete
2017-03-03, 01:52
More news about Gemini PDA, from comments answers (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone/x/9181876#/comments) :
Regarding your points, you would have to open the unit or use the headset feature to control volume. The device with have a vibrate feature.
The WiFi+4G model can function as a WiFi only device.
Thank you for your comment. We met with Sailfish at MWC. Watch this space.
We will announce the exact Sim slot size and eSim chip in the final hardware specification. Watch this space.
Thanks for your question. You will be able to use the device with a bluetooth or wired headset as well as holding the side of the device next to your cheek.
... there is a set of LEDs planned for status indication. We will provide more detail closer to launch.
Wow, EPOC Agenda reborn !?!?!?
The software's team aim is to have an icon strip at the bottom of the touch screen, where some icons are configurable, We are especially keen to ensure the Agenda application is brought up to date.
We will make an announcement about the Android OS and Linux flavour in due course.
Jolla talks will continue. Fn keys via modifier :
1) There are certainly challenges that we need to overcome regarding Linux drivers, and we plan to do so. 2) We did speak to Jolla at MWC and we will continue to do so regarding Sailfish. 3) There will be a modifier that will allow you to execute Fn keys.
we are exploring a number of Linux flavours. We will make a final decision in due course and will let you know. ...
We talked to Jolla about Sailfish at MWC and will continue discussions. A final decision will be made on the Linux flavour in due course and we will let you know.
So Sailfish OS is asked by some future Gemini PDA users, and Planet Computers folks are discussing about Sailfish OS with Jolla.
rcolistete
2017-03-03, 01:59
Gemini PDA FAQ (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone/x/9181876#/) :
What keyboard layouts does the keyboard support?
The keyboard layouts that we plan to support as part of the crowd fund are: English (UK/US), French, German, Spanish, Italian, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Finnish, Japanese, Chinese and Dvorak. For any other languages, please contact us.
What Linux distribution will Gemini run?
We are currently talking to a few companies representing different Linux flavours and we are considering a number of options but the decision has not been taken yet. We are also taking into accounts comments from the backers into consideration, including Sailfish & Ubuntu OS, which have been suggested several times.
Nice to see Planet Computers is listening backers and communities about keyboards and Linux distributions.
Wow!
Thank you for your comment. We met with Sailfish at MWC. Watch this space.
They not only met with Jolla, they have already been assimilated!
Jedibeeftrix
2017-03-03, 08:34
one of those sets of questions was mine. ;)
A commentary was posted right now at the indiegogo page that is very important imho. The answers are very important i think, please be careful about this project.
"I am very exited about this product, but my excitement is tempered by two things:
- Your CEO is affiliated with another Indiegogo project, the ZX Spectrum Vega Plus project, which has not been delivered to date, what is his role in that project? And
- You do not seem to have a working prototype and are being vague about Linux support. As I understand it, Linux support for the processor chosen is non-existent or very bad."
I just looked at the ZX Spectrum Vega Plus project, they planned delivery in September 16. As we all know, building custom hardware with a small team is very difficult, so they may be honest.
Their backers are very hostile, they would not motivate me to work faster.
Starting another campaign in this state does not increase my trust in them. They may plan to use the funds to finish the ZX Spectrum Vega and the revenue from that to fund the Gemini.
I would suggest waiting. The project is funded, so they will start and in the worst case one will get the device one or two months later then the backers.
meego_leenooks1
2017-03-04, 12:21
A commentary was posted right now at the indiegogo page that is very important imho. The answers are very important i think, please be careful about this project.
"I am very exited about this product, but my excitement is tempered by two things:
- Your CEO is affiliated with another Indiegogo project, the ZX Spectrum Vega Plus project, which has not been delivered to date, what is his role in that project? And
- You do not seem to have a working prototype and are being vague about Linux support. As I understand it, Linux support for the processor chosen is non-existent or very bad."
Yea I've noticed how GPD Laptop developers keep answering like "sorry we won't implement this because we are afraid of delaying the release" on questions about GSM module / camera / keyboard backlight / et cetera, especially concerning the certifications required to add the GSM module, and how Gemini PDA developers keep answering like "yes of course we will implement this" on almost every question, implying they will get all required certifications in time.
Also worth mentioning that the first team has some experience and released several devices already, and the second team has no experience nor working prototypes yet.
Anyway I've backed the Gemini PDA and hope for the best.
Can somebody enlighten me what's the point of this design?
One low power co-proccessor for standby-stuff i could understand, but what's this good for:
2x Cortex A72 @2.5GHz
4x Cortex A53 @2.0GHz
4x Cortex A53 @1.55GHz
If i run a webserver on my pocket-computer or do heterogenous supercomputing?
Or is it for power management?
This confuses and interests me also. This goes a little bit offtopic, but I have been wondering nowadays' Android phones with 8-core processors etc.
I have no knowledge at processors/threads/strings/whatever, but I do remember when AMD published the first 6-cores for gaming. It was said that only some few programs really know what to do with those six cores. And I remember some performance tests where AMD 4-core processors performed better than otherwise identical 6-cores.
Many things may have changed from those times, but every time I read about a device having 8-core processor or even multiple processors, I start wondering. So the question is: Can an Android device really put all those processors and cores to good use? I guess it also depends on what you do with that device. For example do you get the benefits of multiple cores only when multitasking or heavy gaming, or does it also give energy savings and longer usage time?
Marketing...
It's hard to sell core type/performance when average user have zero idea what is that but even that uneducated user knows that 10 is bigger than 8 and that 12 is bigger than 10 and that 2.5GHz is more than 2.3Ghz.
While A53, A72, A...... that sound like type of vitamins to them.
Two thin shirts insulate better than one thick one. Likewise two slow CPUs might perform better than a single fast one ;)
For me, the question is whether the two OSs will be equals with respect to accessing the h-w devices: gps, camera etc.
rcolistete
2017-03-06, 21:47
Gemini: The Newest Thing In All Of Psion
By therefore founder, Martin Riddiford (https://medium.com/@thereforedesign/gemini-the-newest-thing-in-all-of-psion-7c4399cdee4e#.clejm64ji)
So the battery is under the keyboard :
the most favourable from a component layout and ease of manufacture point of view was to put a large, flat battery under the keyboard
There is also a (smaller) supercap(acitor) under the display.
the removal of the battery from under the display has opened up space to use a supercap to assist the battery
Keys are compressed when Gemini PDA is closed :
We hatched an audacious plan to squash the keys when the device was shut, saving 1.4mm in thickness. This is done with magnets on the corners which compress the keys and hold the lid and keyboard frame together.
I am struggling to parse this sentence:
This is the type of challenge that I have tackled many times in my career whilst at therefore and before, while shoehorning electronics into ever smaller products.
I consulted a colleague who, unlike me, is not a Bloody Foreigner™, and he was scratching his head too ;)
meego_leenooks1
2017-03-07, 09:31
Refunded my order. This device has more cons than pros.
rcolistete
2017-03-07, 21:57
I am struggling to parse this sentence:
I consulted a colleague who, unlike me, is not a Bloody Foreigner™, and he was scratching his head too ;)
"therefore" is the name of the designer company.
"therefore" is the name of the designer company.
Ha ha! In some academic conventions it would be italicised, and indeed there is a point to doing that....
Often, confusion is the result of "too clever by half" names.
A commentary was posted [...] at the indiegogo page [...]
"I am very exited about this product, but my excitement is tempered by two things:
- Your CEO is affiliated with another Indiegogo project, the ZX Spectrum Vega Plus project, which has not been delivered to date, what is his role in that project? [...]"
So this news article may be relevant:
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39191064
Essentially they summarize the bad state of the project.
Long overdue, lack of communication.
They add their correspondence with the company, which did not go well:
"Our clients are concerned that the BBC is in fact supporting and participating in a malicious campaign intended to denigrate our clients' reputation," wrote lawyers Michelmores LLP in a letter to the broadcaster.
Golem rephrased (https://www.golem.de/news/retro-spiele-handheld-ungewisse-zukunft-fuer-sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega-1703-126651.html) this into
"With threat of legal action the company tried to prevent press releases about the project"
Which is kinda over the top and wrong in my eyes. But they certainly haven't got a thick skin.
Anyway it seems they either are totally overwhelmed with the scale of the project or they decided to run with the money or they tried, didn't hit their deadline and after the response from their backers decided "Na they don't deserve it anyway" ;)
I suggest again to stay away from funding the Gemini if this connection is there and wait for a final product.
Jedibeeftrix
2017-03-17, 14:07
new update:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/updates
seem firmly committed to mediatek, and in talks with canononical and jolla.
committed to a flashable device.
This is just yet another ARM device built for Android and built with planned obsolescence. The screenshot shows it's running Linux 3.18 which is the kernel used in Android 6 and is now EOL. If you're lucky they'll move to Linux 4.4 from Android 7 which is scheduled to be EOL'd in less than a year.
On the Linux side, we are actively discussing with several companies including Canonical (Ubuntu), Jolla (Sailfish OS), Mediatek and others on how we can achieve a truly open Linux environment.
This made me LOL, particularly the Mediatek part. That statement alone tells me they have little experience in this area. Ubuntu and Sailfish ports will likely use the Android kernel with libhybris like all of their other ports to mobile devices. You can forget a truly open Linux environment.
rcolistete
2017-04-08, 19:00
New Gemini PDA updates on April 7th :
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/updates
- LCD screen changed, now 5.99” FHD, 18:9 ratio; 2160x1080, so it is larger than 5.7", but less resolution (like it because less power drain);
- about mobile OS :
2) Operating systems
i) Android
The identified device manufacturer already has a Mediatek license and has committed to letting us alter the firmware so that we can properly support our keyboard, multiple languages and alphabets. They have also committed to supporting an optional application bar such as the one below the screen on the old Psion devices. This will be an option so that backers who do not want this, can disable it in the settings. The version of Android used on the device will be Android 7.
ii) Linux
We have taken on board all backer comments regarding the flavour options of Linux. There were many comments and essentially we understand the main requests for the platform to be as open as possible so that backers are free to install whatever Linux distribution they want.
We are definitely going in this direction and the plan is to develop as many Linux drivers for the device in the time available to support a variety of distros. The key device drivers that we will need are of course the screen, keyboard, memory management, battery management, WiFi and we have a commitment with our manufacturing partners’ design house to enable us to do this. This is great news as this was an unclear point when we launched the campaign.
iii) Sailfish
We have still not made a formal decision on Sailfish as OS. Partly because we narrowly missed meeting some key management of Jolla in Hong Kong due to conflicting schedules on both sides. We plan to meet Jolla soon for further discussions.
We hope this is an exciting update on the specifications of Gemini for you. From now on the sourcing department of our chosen Far Eastern design house will be identifying the final components for Gemini’s bill of materials.
12 hours left to close the Gemini PDA Indiegogo campaign funding.
rcolistete
2017-04-08, 19:03
My opinion :
- Gemini PDA hardware will be released, with a great (made in UK) mechanical keyboard;
- Android 7 will work;
- Linux release is the great risk, as developing drivers is not cheap and fast, so I expect delays and not 100% ready Linux release (lacking some drivers).
rcolistete
2017-08-29, 01:46
Many updates (28/08/2017) on Gemini PDA/smartphone (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/updates/all) : Report from the China Factory Visit and General Update - Part #1, #2, #3, #4.
Wow !
https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_620/v1503921637/hz9acgy64jyt3g7mvqkt.png
Here is a current snapshot of Linux running on the development X25 device.
https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_620/v1503922300/xhsmdtvy59zlvkm3hpjp.png
The Linux in the image above is based on Debian 9.0 (Stretch). We will share more on plans for Linux on Gemini in the coming month, including support for other distributions, but we wanted to share the good news on getting some parts of Linux on the development device that was originally only Android. We also confirm that we managed to achieve dual boot – booting Android and Linux, We will be preparing our Web Site to support community efforts for Linux on Gemini.
Comments :
...regarding USB-C connectivity - we already have it on Linux. So far, we have tested Ethernet, keyboard and mouse and they are already working directly connected to the development device or all together working over a USB-C hub. We are also in the process of testing the HDMI over USB-C
endsormeans
2017-08-29, 07:14
welly well well.
This is very very tempting. Looks nice, has keyboard, will make calls. But will it do in Linux everything it can on Android? And how will the binary blobs be managed with respect to kernel upgrades?
Jedibeeftrix
2017-08-29, 22:06
i love the hardware/format, just give me somehing other than android...
one_with_linux
2017-08-29, 22:29
How about 3D acceleration on X11?
How about 3D acceleration on X11?
That sounds like an excuse for not getting one. "Quick, think of some arcane feature that is unlikely to be supported. Oh, found one. Phewww!"
How about 3D acceleration on X11?
That sounds like an excuse for not getting one. "Quick, think of some arcane feature that is unlikely to be supported. Oh, found one. Phewww!"
Tend to agree.
If 2D acceleration is missing that'd be a drag when dragging stuff on da screen but what's 3D acceleration anyway except the stuff measured by an acceleratiometer sensor?
what's 3D acceleration anyway except the stuff measured by an acceleratiometer sensor?
It is a GPU feature to accelerate the rendering of 3D scenes on a 2D screen. I am not aware of any use case other than in some action games. I am not a gamer, can anyone who is tell us how many such games exist in Linux? And how important it is to be able to play them on a phone/PDA?
Jedibeeftrix
2017-08-30, 08:14
Thousands, on steam alone. But your point stands about the validity of the gaming argument on an arm based handheld device.
Presumably 3D acceleration is valuable for desktop compositors, but anyone advocating for that effort to put put into X rather than Wayland in late 207 can reasonably be considered a malicious saboteur of any ambitions for Linux on handheld...
It is a GPU feature to accelerate the rendering of 3D scenes on a 2D screen. I am not aware of any use case other than in some action games. I am not a gamer, can anyone who is tell us how many such games exist in Linux? And how important it is to be able to play them on a phone/PDA?
Scientific computing applications sometimes benefit from technology developed to support games. One example that I am familiar with is the crystallographic structure visualisation package Coot: (https://www2.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/personal/pemsley/coot/). Here are some screenshots:
http://www2.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/personal/pemsley/coot/web/screenshots/
This package definitely benefits from 3D rendering. Having said that, few people would try to do serious work with a package like this on a PDA-format machine :)
It is a GPU feature to accelerate the rendering of 3D scenes on a 2D screen. I am not aware of any use case other than in some action games.Or any Qt application using QtQuick (so most touch enabled apps, like on SailfishOS). Some information can be found on their blog, for example : https://blog.qt.io/blog/2017/01/18/opengl-implementation-qt-quick-app-using-today/
The GPU is a very complex beast containing a lot of different subsystems, some dedicated to 2D, 3D, video decoding, etc... but as Qt expects OpenGL(ES), I understand that it is the 3D subsystem that is needed. (A new software renderer is now available, but is not related to the question, so I won't go further on it).
Cool. I am learning something new every day.
Jedibeeftrix
2017-09-11, 12:00
Running Debian.
Upgraded to Helio X27.
Downgraded battery to 42mAH
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/11/gemini_psion_alike_pre_production_prototype_handso n/
It would be helpful to know if the battery is still supposed to be removable (that's a big thing for me...).
Hoping someone who can comment on the Indigogo page asks the question. If you're a backer, feel free to take that as a hint ;)
Edit: also, seems like a sketchy proposition charging 100 USD more for the sim version if all versions can run esims. Could that be a misunderstanding?
Jedibeeftrix
2017-09-12, 09:39
I was wondering about the esim too,
$299 for the wifi version is still the early bird price, long gone for the cellular version.
Update - Dave potter has joined as honorary chairman.
Sep 12, 2017 • 3:01PM update:
Our aspiration was for the Gemini to have an 8000 mAh battery.
We could not fit the 8000 mAh battery in the dimensions we set for the device, as one of our backers noticed early on in the campaign.
Keeping the aspiration of 8000 mAh we tried to find the largest off the shelf removable battery that would fit the device. We were finding batteries with capacity of around 3000 mAh and this was not satisfactory.
We proceeded to look at other solution making the battery replaceable, but not removable in the sense of not requiring any device maintenance.
In the end we decided to create our own custom battery that can fit the space.
The battery is not removable, but is replaceable. Having a removable battery would make the device thicker and we did not want that either. The battery can be replaced, as it plugs in neatly into the side PCB. Replacement batteries will be available.
The battery size has been measured at 4220 mAh and we are yet to do the final longevity tests (talk time and standby time)
Even at 4220 mAh, the Gemini regular battery is still one of the largest batteries on a mobile phone device.
We are still keen to cater for an even larger battery and we are considering to introduce an large battery add-on that would come with a thicker base cover to cater for the larger battery volume, making the dimensions of the device much thicker.
Running Debian.
Upgraded to Helio X27.
Downgraded battery to 42mAH
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/11/gemini_psion_alike_pre_production_prototype_handso n/
For this prototype they have reused the Psion Series 5/5mx Keyboard. Its visible very clear on the Fn-Key. But they also modified some keys and printed new icons on it...
cool
That is one helluva battery downgrade. Yikes.
That is one helluva battery downgrade. Yikes.
In absolute terms, you are right - but in the end, what matters is how many hours of average intensity use is given by the installed battery. It needs to be 8 hours minimum IMO, ideally 12. Or what?
HA
epninety
2017-09-14, 21:41
For me, I think the number of hours it can remain in 'instant on' standby would be a more useful figure of merit. I don't imagine frequently using one for hours on end, but being able to use it for 10 mins at a time several times a day, and not needing to charge daily - that would be attractive (weekly maybe?)
A keyboard as good as a Psion5 would be a very big draw for me. It's very tempting, but between the GPD Pocket and Chens promised 'Lauta' homage, I don't think Gemini are going to get my money.
chenliangchen
2017-09-14, 23:10
A keyboard as good as a Psion5 would be a very big draw for me. It's very tempting, but between the GPD Pocket and Chens promised 'Lauta' homage, I don't think Gemini are going to get my money.
Thank you! It's an honour!
I apologise we are getting quiet recently - I want to make the Moto Keyboard Mod as good as I can, then I will focus on this successor. I only release the product I am happy with myself.
I am aiming for Mid-October that we can get all the Moto Keyboard business completed with R&D and I will make Lauta back to your hand. ;)
@handaxe, I may be wrong but I believe @gerbick was making an ironic remark about some missing zeroes.
Info about linux in the comments:
They were only using the X25 chipset but I saw Linux via chroot from Android and also direct boot to Debian. They are using LK as the bootloader. The benefit of Linux inside Android was that you could use the android modem and wifi drivers and that you could do what you needed quickly without having to reboot. It also used an Android SDL Xserver.
@handaxe, I may be wrong but I believe @gerbick was making an ironic remark about some missing zeroes.
Ah, quite right - not the actual downgrade but the one reported here. Less haste etc.
rcolistete
2017-09-16, 02:21
The guy met with the CEO and CTO of the company behind the Gemini PDA last night, and got his hands on their prototypes. Here is the report in his blog:
Digital devices for world travellers
Thursday, 14 September 2017
https://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/002303.html
rcolistete
2017-09-18, 03:12
MWC America video showing Gemini PDA team :
Checking out a Phone with Android, Linux & a Physical Keyboard
Remember the Psion? I do. It was a pretty awesome PDA for its time and now it's back as the Gemini PDA. We spoke with Davide to find out why they're building it and who it's for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSNFgEyWBGo
They now have a video showing their prototype doing some stuff:
https://vimeo.com/237116357
I'm looking forward to seeing more of them!
ttmooney
2017-10-18, 11:58
I played with the production samples at Gitex in Dubai. They look good, and the guys are working on getting Linux on the device.
Some of the problem is down to Mediatek, because their release is Android-only, which means things either have to be rewritten or libhybris has to be used to call the Android kernel drivers — which means, in turn, being stuck on the same release as Android.
The Planet guys are pressuring Mediatek, and we should all do the same. One of the Mediatek guys actually told me that some of the kernel modules are written for them by Google. I’m not sure it’s true, but things are probably more complicated than we would like!
Anyway, progress is being made. I’ll check in with the Planet guys here in London once work slows down a bit.
T
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I played with the production samples at Gitex in Dubai. They look good, and the guys are working on getting Linux on the device.
Some of the problem is down to Mediatek, because their release is Android-only, which means things either have to be rewritten or libhybris has to be used to call the Android kernel drivers — which means, in turn, being stuck on the same release as Android.
The Planet guys are pressuring Mediatek, and we should all do the same. One of the Mediatek guys actually told me that some of the kernel modules are written for them by Google. I’m not sure it’s true, but things are probably more complicated than we would like!
Anyway, progress is being made. I’ll check in with the Planet guys here in London once work slows down a bit.
T
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
surprise surprise :rolleyes:
they can't even support android properly. Every Android TV (sony, philips, TLC) is based on mediacrap SoC and every update to new android brought a bunch of new problems that were never resolved. They don't use officail android APIs
and bunch of stuff that worked on lollypop was broken with MM and never fixed. And those who did received Nougat still have the same problems.
I played with the production samples at Gitex in Dubai. They look good, and the guys are working on getting Linux on the device.
That's very nice to hear!
Some of the problem is down to Mediatek, because their release is Android-only, which means things either have to be rewritten or libhybris has to be used to call the Android kernel drivers — which means, in turn, being stuck on the same release as Android.
Do you know which are the problematic part? Ie. what works on the mainline kernel and what doesn't?
I personally would be okay with libhybris as well, as long as I can then use my preferred desktop environment and apps.
The Planet guys are pressuring Mediatek, and we should all do the same. One of the Mediatek guys actually told me that some of the kernel modules are written for them by Google. I’m not sure it’s true, but things are probably more complicated than we would like!
I wouldn't be surprised if that were true.
Anyway, progress is being made. I’ll check in with the Planet guys here in London once work slows down a bit.
If you do, please share the story with us. :)
ttmooney
2017-10-19, 10:09
Do you know which are the problematic part? Ie. what works on the mainline kernel and what doesn't?
Not off the top of my head. But I’m digging into it.
I personally would be okay with libhybris as well, as long as I can then use my preferred desktop environment and apps.
There are options for both libhybris and a chroot environment already on the table, but I’m pushing for mainline. We’ll see how it goes.
More as things progress.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
ttmooney
2017-10-20, 18:49
FYI — a new video showing Linux environment was released today.
I’m sure this is libhybris based, but it’s a start!
https://vimeo.com/239095559
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
rcolistete
2017-10-21, 02:16
I’m sure this is libhybris based, but it’s a start!
How do you know ???
ttmooney
2017-10-21, 11:34
How do you know ???
I had a long talk with the guys at Gitex, and the underlying chipset isn’t in mainline. But it’s a WIP. I’ll catch up with them next week and try to get some more details.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
FYI — a new video showing Linux environment was released today.
I’m sure this is libhybris based, but it’s a start!
I don't have a problem with libhybris.
If that's what it takes to get it working decently.
I’ll catch up with them next week and try to get some more details.
Do you know why they chose not to put the screen in the center? It kinda looks a little weird.
Does anyone know what's up with the Gemini? They are not responding to any comments on IGG + they haven't posted any significant updates for a while. :(
endsormeans
2017-11-07, 12:01
Hate to say it...
But it is a common thing to see ...
A- It may be they are busy and haven't yet told everyone interested in their work or their situation. (mind that is hardly an excuse when anyone can write a 2 second blurb to alleviate concern ... stating:
"Don't worry ...we still have a pulse!...and will write more the moment we have a chance!...." )
or
B- It may be they have folded , moved on, and haven't yet told everyone interested in their work or their situation. (or perhaps do not relish saying so.)
or
C- they simply do not care enough to mention what is happening. (worse I think than A or B)
I think your inquiry and mention...
say a great deal ..
regardless whether it is A or B or C
D- they scampered off with your money ;)
(I guess you can say it is a variant of C.)
I think your inquiry and mention...
say a great deal ..
regardless whether it is A or B or C
Not sure why every single crowdfunding campaign fails at communication, though. One or two short updates each week would do the trick, I think.
D- they scampered off with your money ;)
Heh.
Let's hope that isn't the case!
It seems they are reading TMO, there is an update :)
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/updates/all
railroadmaster
2018-01-09, 16:51
The Gemini PDA is being shown off CES 2018
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/updates/all
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-42580084/ces-2018-psion-pda-gets-android-makeover
https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/143232-planet-gemini-pda-goes-on-sale-letting-you-relive-those-psion-days
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/7/16861596/planet-computers-gemini-tiny-laptop-hands-on-ces-2018
https://liliputing.com/2018/01/hands-gemini-pda-handheld-pc-android-linux-6-inch-display.html
https://www.slashgear.com/planet-computers-gemini-hands-on-nostalgias-android-reboot-07514066/
railroadmaster
2018-01-09, 22:35
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment
I would really like to get this running on a Gemini pda.
rcolistete
2018-02-02, 00:42
Gemini mass production has started!
Feb 1, 2018 • 2:02PM (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/updates/all)
rcolistete
2018-02-19, 17:36
Gemini launch - Linux update (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device-phone#/updates/all)
...
We are really excited to say that at the moment we have the following Linux distributions fully or partially running on the Gemini:
* Debian
* Sailfish OS
* Ubuntu 17.04
* Postmarket OS (an experimental version running Hildon UI – may look familiar to MeeGo/Maemo users)
Yes, they are all running on the Gemini today!
...
We are also now confirming that we will be opening the source code for the Linux kernel and the boot loader for the Gemini.
...
:D:D:D:D:D:D
Lets see.. I don't trust them.... If this item has really the keyboard of 5MX and is capable of running SailfishOS - i will buy it. Bot not until it is on the market....
mr_pingu
2018-02-19, 18:15
And the userspace drivers? Still vdry skeptical.
We should see in about a week, during the MWC, at which level each of those linux flavors are already running on the device :
Nikita will be joining us at our stand at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona (Hall 7 stand 7K40) and he will be showing some of the Linux version at out Linux showcase next week.
I don't know to what extent it's working, but at least looking at the pictures feels good.
http://reho.st/https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_695/v1519060260/uk6v7e8jizw0giax4qp8.jpg
http://reho.st/https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_695/v1519060290/laref7nsuuhbsjue75si.jpg
http://reho.st/https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_695/v1519060412/ececo7gxowehhwybjtrj.jpg
http://reho.st/https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_695/v1519060446/g70dwrhtewiklxcw2krz.jpg
http://reho.st/https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_695/v1519059741/wjdroe6rtl6fiux4d7s9.jpg
The thing is it's more expensive than my 13" laptop with real keyboard and screen, i5, 8 GB RAM, dual SSD and a GPU fully working under Linux, which is admittedly not the same use (I know) but I still feel more comfortable spending this much in a laptop. Of course the price of the Gemini is not shocking when you compare it to Samsung or Apple flagships, but high enough to hesitate. What I don't like is you can only use it as a clam shell, no phone call without opening it (except with voice command but it will likely be exclusive to Android), and no comfortable thumb typing either to type when walking.
However, it's very nice to see that they considered Sailfish and even Postmarket OS (so good to see good ol' Hildon on a recent device; I thought the same when I saw Maemo-Leste) to the point that it seems to run at least partially on the device. I wonder if the Gemini wouldn't be one of those devices Jolla was teasing in some blog posts lately. Both companies know about some overlap between their potential users, so it would be nice to see if this Sailfish is official or a port (unless I missed something, the pictures do not show, I can't see any Android icon on the homescreen). My personal undocumented belief is it's only a port though.
Also, here are some additional information from TheKit (who I assume is the same person as our TMO member (https://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=73130)) on what is currently working, although not official: http://developer.planetcom.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=5&pid=6#pid6
What definitely works is display, sound, Wi-Fi, keyboard, touch. SailfishOS also has calls, SMS messages, 3G/4G data and camera.
I am curious about the drivers and kernel too now.
biketool
2018-02-20, 13:39
What kind of keyboard switches are they using, those keys look almost big enough to hide some Cherry blues.
(edit) I looked at more pix, I am pretty sure there is no room for mechanical key switches.
suicidal_orange
2018-02-20, 13:44
No, won't be MX they're too chunky. Probably standard chiclet/rubberdome but hopefully the new kailh choc switches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B27IrARYHxk&index=5&list=PLKyIzUi1N6huMpmKvn95Kug2bsQPKwUGq
I am curious about the drivers and kernel too now.
And I am curious/worried (mostly the latter) about the BIOS.
I suspect some proprietary binary blob, but couldn't find/search properly on that subject.
And I am curious/worried (mostly the latter) about the BIOS.
I suspect some proprietary binary blob, but couldn't find/search properly on that subject.
There is no desktop-style BIOS there, as it's an ARM device. The closest to it is little kernel (http://www.lieberbiber.de/2015/07/05/mediatek-details-little-kernel/), which they are going to release. But there are lots of other blobs just as in regular Android phone, so I guess it should be the least of worries.
But there are lots of other blobs just as in regular Android phone, so I guess it should be the least of worries.
The fact that it is built towards being an Android device is the elephant in the matchbox when it comes to worries :rolleyes:
Maybe you interested: Someone has seen Kernel version 3.18.41 running: http://developer.planetcom.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=5&page=2
Gemini PDA is available for buying on their website.
Waiting for my salary.... :(
Talked to the Planet PDA guys.
The Gemini PDA is cheaper on Indigogo, than on the official site, and they will first deliver all indigogo perks and afterwards the shop purchases.
The second batch should cover all indigogo perks, which are not yet delivered.
Purchased on indigogo.
And for people, who want develop SailfishOS on the Gemini PDA - there "might" be special offer.
I can't post details here, but all folks, who want develop or port SF on the Gemini PDA, might contact me on Telegram @explit.
And i will look, what i can do.
Of course, anything is without warranty and only a "good will" act of Planet Comp. Inc.
rcolistete
2018-06-24, 13:47
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/flow/item/23026_Meanwhile_on_Android_the_QWERT.php
meemorph
2018-06-24, 15:46
you can flash sailfish os 2.1.4.14 community to your gemini pda as 2nd or 3rd boot option. Try it.
PartitionTool on Planet Computers (http://support.planetcom.co.uk/partitionTool.html)
News on Planet Computers support page (http://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php/Main_Page)
... have fun ...
rcolistete
2018-06-26, 11:02
Oficial partnership between Jolla and Planet Computers will bring Sailfish 3 in late 2018, meanwhile Sailfish 2.2 community edition is already available :
PLANET COMPUTERS ANNOUNCES GEMINI PDA TO RUN SAILFISH OS
(https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gemini-pda-android-linux-keyboard-mobile-device--2#/updates/all)
posted by Dr Janko Mrsic-Flogel
Jun 26, 2018 • 7:37AM
PRESS RELEASE
Gemini PDA to run Sailfish OS mobile operating system – developed by Jolla
See Gemini in action at CommunicAsia 2018 – Marina Bay Sands, Level 5, Stand 5L4-10
Sailfish for Gemini Community Edition available to download now
CommunicAsia, 26th June 2018: Planet Computers today announces the Gemini PDA will feature Sailfish OS mobile operating system, developed by Finnish mobile company Jolla.
The long-standing partnership between the two companies means Sailfish 3 – the third generation of the open-source mobile operating system, based on the Linux kernel – is to be made available on the Gemini PDA.
The Gemini PDA is a quad-boot mobile device, capable of booting into Android OS as well as a number of Linux distributions – including Sailfish OS.
Sailfish X, the downloadable and official version of the OS, will be available in late 2018 and will feature a suite of advanced functions including: over-the-air (OTA) updates; Jolla Store access; end-user support; and crucially for Gemini users, full support for landscape user-interface (UI), encrypted user data and communications, Android app support and a refreshed user interface, with improvements like redesigned email.
In the meantime, Sailfish for Gemini Community Edition – a community supported version based on Sailfish OS 2.0 – is free and available to download now: http://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php/SailfishOS
Gemini PDA is being showcased at CommunicAsia 2018 – Marina Bay Sands, Level 5, Stand 5L4-10.
Dr Janko Mrsic-Flogel, CEO of Planet Computers comments: “This is the next stage in our partnership with Jolla and it is an important step in our mission to open up the Gemini PDA to the Sailfish community. Users will be able to benefit from the technical performance provided by the quad-boot features of the Gemini PDA and explore the power of Sailfish OS for themselves.”
Sami Pienimäki, CEO of Jolla, says: “We are excited that Gemini PDA will join the Sailfish X family starting now with the community edition, and followed by the official version later this year. Gemini PDA with its full QWERTY keyboard is a very lucrative device for many Sailfish fans and it also brings back memories of the iconic Nokia N900 device. Gemini PDA with Sailfish OS is a very powerful combination.”
Gemini PDA has raised more than $2.3 million in investment to date. For the latest updates, click here: http://ow.ly/qaFD30g3Ihv.
That is a great, great news. Unfortunately, I would prefer a device designed for thumb typing, i.e., with a narrower keyboard and smaller keys, whereas the Gemini is mostly designed as a mini-laptop and is best used on a table with full hands. It still makes the Gemini a more interesting product to me though, and I'll keep an eye on potential rebates or second hand devices.
I think it shows the nice mutual benefits between Sailfish and the Gemini (and potentially future HWKB devices like Chen's in case of similar partnerships), and it should bring extra media coverage on privacy-friendly OSes (which is timely after the latest scandals and the EU realization that people shouldn't give everything to Google/Apple/Facebook/etc.) and the comeback of hardware keyboards on mobile devices.
The latter is still shy but there's hope. After all, even Microsoft and Apple have started to advertise on their optional keyboards for tablets a few years ago. With the current trend towards phablets showing that customers are keen to using bigger phones for more browsing comfort if it helps rationalizing their devices, HWKB devices could claim a small user base among those that need productivity or need more than just reading content.
Since they offer keyboard shortcuts and full screen estate for the content, HWKB mobile devices are also much better terminals for using cloud computing services, another thing that is expanding very quickly these days as 4G is getting more accessible (see Shadow.tech, Rainway, Parsec, Moolinght, and so on). Some of them primarily target gaming, but they can do much more; see screenshots from my Jolla C here:
https://reho.st/self/6cff4e2228dc40f94b51a677741ee4791e3a4eb9.jpg
https://reho.st/self/e00f43024177f1e4eaba9adb650c7fcacccabb01.jpg
I'm not particularly a big fan of Windows, but there are many use cases for this, other host OSes will eventually be possible, and the Gemini can already boot under Debian. It looks like a regular VNC/Rdesktop/Teamviewer session, but in fact the stream is smooth with close to no noticeable latency thanks to a much better up bandwidth than the typical home computer, which is a game changer (and with their homemade application or even Parsec, the stream is optimized so you could play in 60 fps, watch videos or scroll text with no hiccups, but those apps require Android 5).
Now I'm not saying this should replace a local OS (some do, I strongly disagree, it's good to decentralize and to have an OS that is independent from network), but imagine how nice that could be with a keyboard and a stylus on the phone if you are in a country where unlimited data plans are affordable.
By the way Rcolistete, I can't find any mention of Sailfish 3 in the press release you linked, but it's in your quote. Is it from another source? Did they edit because it was wrong? I would think so, because I'm almost sure I read it on Indiegogo an hour ago. They still mention Sailfish X, but they removed any mentions of "Sailfish 3" or "official version". I'm chilling now.
Edit: Phew (https://blog.jolla.com/gemini/).
rcolistete
2018-06-27, 15:12
By the way Rcolistete, I can't find any mention of Sailfish 3 in the press release you linked, but it's in your quote. Is it from another source? Did they edit because it was wrong? I would think so, because I'm almost sure I read it on Indiegogo an hour ago. They still mention Sailfish X, but they removed any mentions of "Sailfish 3" or "official version". I'm chilling now.
Planet Computers cited Sailfish 3 and Sailfish X as the same thing, but they aren't (AFAIK).
rcolistete
2018-06-27, 15:14
From Jolla Blog :
Sailfish for Gemini Community Edition available now (https://blog.jolla.com/gemini/)
June 26, 2018 by Vesa-Matti Hartikainen
Yep, I had added the Jolla's press release in my edit above. Feels good to have a firm confirmation that there will be an official Sailfish version for the device.
railroadmaster
2018-08-17, 07:15
I ordered my Gemini PDA for 530 US dollars, I would have backed it if I had the money. I should get it in a few weeks. The seller was nice enough to send me the US version instead.
railroadmaster
2018-08-18, 02:33
I will be making Youtube Videos about the Gemini PDA, when I get one, as I feel there is a shortage of such videos.
Android_808
2018-08-18, 07:18
I would appreciate that. I'm still looking for a replacement for my netbook (Eee 1000) that I like. I don't want to spend a fortune in Apple Tax and I don't need stupidly high specs. Gemini or GPD are one option but I'm not sure if they are too small.
Having upgraded the RAM to 2GB, it still matches RAM and beats HDD storage (40 Vs 32) of most of the current equivalent price and size replacements. CPU and RAM speed they hands down will beat the Atom N270/ DDR2 setup but not worth my money if the other specs aren't higher. Even the 4GB RAM in some wouldn't justify it.
rcolistete
2018-08-18, 08:14
I would appreciate that. I'm still looking for a replacement for my netbook (Eee 1000) that I like. I don't want to spend a fortune in Apple Tax and I don't need stupidly high specs. Gemini or GPD are one option but I'm not sure if they are too small.
I've since last month a Gemini 4G with triple boot (Android 7.1, Debian 9.4/LXQt, Sailfish 2.1.4.14).
Gemini isn't so large if compared with 5.5" smartphones when in my pocket.
Keyboard is great, like Psion 5/5MX one, so a lot better than Nokia N810/N900 and Sailfish TOH Keyboard. Even better than many keyboards of normal and large notebooks !
Android 7.1 is 100% operational on Gemini.
Sailfish OS 2.1.4.14 (from community) is 100% operational after some small configuration (use only 3G, lock screen landscape mode, install 'Bleeding edge sd-utils' to automout uSD), only lacks proprietary (Android, etc) support. If needed Android app, just boot Android 7.1.1, anyway.
Debian stretch 9.4 is ARM 64 bits, currently needs some configuration (automount uSD, change hostname, CLI Bluetooth device configuration, touchscreen as touchpad), but itsn't 100% operational as 3G/4G doesn't work (only WiFi and Bluetooth) and there are some softwares with too small fonts (Gnome one's ?), like Synaptic, IDLE, Geogebra, etc.
LXQt is configured with some keyboard shortcuts.
I'm finishing the configuration of Debian @ Gemini to be used as a small notebook using LibreOffice/Abiword/Gnumeric, TeX (TeXLive & TeXMaker), Thunderbird, Dropbox via rclone, Python, SciDavis, etc.
My Gemini has a 128GB uSD with 32GB FAT32 partition (visible by Android 7.1, Debian, Sailfish) and the rest with Ext4 (visible by Debian and Sailfish).
With Gemini 4G using Debian and Sailfish you can have a smartphone and a full Linux mini-notebook in your pocket. I'm indeed planning to only carry my Gemini in some situations (travelling light, etc).
Man, please stop teasing me. I had to spend a lot of money on new glasses just last week, I really cannot afford a new toy.
Fuzzillogic
2018-08-18, 09:29
My Gemini has a 128GB uSD with 32GB FAT32 partition (visible by Android 7.1, Debian, Sailfish) and the rest with Ext4 (visible by Debian and Sailfish).
Odd. I thought Android supported Ext4 as well. A few years back they wanted to remove it (why??) but public outcry changed their minds. Did they sneak this anti-feature back in, with a newer Android feature?
What's keeping me from ordering a device like the Gemini or GDP Pocket 2 is the apparent lack of an accurate point device, like a trackpoint or induction stylus. These device are more suitable to run desktop apps on occasion than smartphone, but hitting on-screen buttons with your fat fingers might be too cumbersome.
Or am I wrong on this, and is there a solution for this? (apart from linking up some external BT pointing device)
railroadmaster
2018-08-18, 11:22
I got a job to be able to buy one. After this I will only buy some needed parts to rebuild my desktop, no more major purchases after that.
rcolistete
2018-08-18, 13:20
Odd. I thought Android supported Ext4 as well. A few years back they wanted to remove it (why??) but public outcry changed their minds. Did they sneak this anti-feature back in, with a newer Android feature?
Ext4 partition is recognized when mounting/using Termux with root. But the majority of Android apps don't see Ext4 partitions.
And ExFat is not included in Android 7.1 @ Gemini.
What's keeping me from ordering a device like the Gemini or GDP Pocket 2 is the apparent lack of an accurate point device, like a trackpoint or induction stylus. These device are more suitable to run desktop apps on occasion than smartphone, but hitting on-screen buttons with your fat fingers might be too cumbersome.
Or am I wrong on this, and is there a solution for this? (apart from linking up some external BT pointing device)
On Debian there's this solution :
Touchscreen as touchpad - relative mouse input (https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35185)
that works very well, all the 6" inch screen is a large touchpad, with some gestures working as right mouse click, etc.
And USB-C->USB-A cable with USB mouse works very well on Android 7.1 and Debian @ Gemini.
railroadmaster
2018-08-18, 14:15
Odd. I thought Android supported Ext4 as well. A few years back they wanted to remove it (why??) but public outcry changed their minds. Did they sneak this anti-feature back in, with a newer Android feature?
What's keeping me from ordering a device like the Gemini or GDP Pocket 2 is the apparent lack of an accurate point device, like a trackpoint or induction stylus. These device are more suitable to run desktop apps on occasion than smartphone, but hitting on-screen buttons with your fat fingers might be too cumbersome.
Or am I wrong on this, and is there a solution for this? (apart from linking up some external BT pointing device)
The Adonit jot dash and Adonit Snap both work with the Gemini PDA and provide precise input. Not sure about the GPD Pocket 2.
The Adonit jot dash and Adonit Snap both work with the Gemini PDA and provide precise input. Not sure about the GPD Pocket 2.
That made me interested. Do they work by affecting screen electrostatic field as if touched by a finger? Quick search tells so, but they also have Bluetooth.
Android_808
2018-08-18, 18:20
After using Arch for years without a reinstall, I switched shortly after they dropped 32bit (another reason for looking to replace the Eee) to Debian Sid. After going Original (Xandros based), Fedora, Debian, Arch and now Sid over the years, I'm quite liking Debian so that would probably be the direction I'd take.
Might have to look into 3G/4G progress/patches before making a decision
railroadmaster
2018-08-18, 18:44
That made me interested. Do they work by affecting screen electrostatic field as if touched by a finger? Quick search tells so, but they also have Bluetooth.
I do believe they are capacitive and electrostatic.
railroadmaster
2018-08-19, 02:45
The Pocket 2 does have a small optical mouse sensors.
https://youtu.be/abGuaHe1w-E
The Pocket 2 does have a small optical mouse sensors.
Wrong thread? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=98688)
railroadmaster
2018-08-19, 09:54
Wrong thread? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=98688)
It was in response to this
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1547264#post1547264
railroadmaster
2018-08-19, 18:23
According to my order tracking my Gemini PDA has arrived in the Los Angeles postal distribution center. So I should get my device by this week!
epninety
2018-08-19, 23:15
I gave in and bought one a few weeks ago.Booted it once to check the hardware, then reflashed with Linux and SFOS. Ive booted linux a couple of times to play with, but otherwise its my daily driver phone.
I've noticed a few issues, but its at least as good as the X was running the community port.
Hoping the external button will answer calls in SF3...
Had a couple of random reboots while in standby - due to current restrictions when it comes back its running android, otherwise I might not have noticed.
Keyboard is great.
Failed to find a decent carry case. Planets own offering looks like it might not be as protective as I would like. Waiting on a custom case from a chinese ebay seller Ive used before.
Some apps dont like the super wide landscape screen e.g.Stellarium
Forum pages often dont render properly in the browser, too wide for the screen and wont scroll or zoom out.
Pretty minor stuff all in all - Roll on SF3!
Hi. How do you make a call with this device? Do you have have to open it up and use the keyboard or touchscreen. Can the keyboard swing back 360 degrees? Just trying to understand if it is difficult to make calls. How is the experience for owners? Thanks.
Can you elaborate with a screenshot on the issue with Stellarium Epninety? Does it run with bugs, or does it crash?
Can the keyboard swing back 360 degrees?
Unless I misunderstood what you meant, no it can't. The angle is fixed.
epninety
2018-08-20, 12:11
You have to open the device to make a call. In android theres an external button which can be used to answer, but currently non functional in SFOS.
Can of course answer with BT headset, possibly make calls too if you have a smarter headset than I do.
That reminds me, it does not connect to my (older Land Rover) car BT eitherm but I expected that as the same happened with the X using the community builds.
The Gemini opens like a regular laptop, it does not flip around to give a tablet form factor.
epninety
2018-08-20, 14:03
Can you elaborate with a screenshot on the issue with Stellarium Epninety? Does it run with bugs, or does it crash?
Seems to be working, but the layout and scaling is messed up.
It's not specifically a Stellarium issue, theres a few apps I've tried where I cant access a screen button without triggering the pulley system etc.
I seem to notice the network switching bug(*) more often than I did before but that might be just because it's more useable so I'm using it more :-)
(*) Device claims not network connection despite having both mobile and wifi available. Mildly annoying when the email app says 'Sorry I cant connect to the network' with a popup on top saying 'you have 6 new emails' :o
Erm, sad. Is it Sterllarium for Sailfish 0.9.1 or is it another version?
Not sure if I'd be happy with this design for a DD. If there was a screen on both the inside and outside of the device I might buy it. So when tbe clam shell is closed I use it like any smartphone and when the clam shell is open I use it more like a computer. Both the phone and computer could have access to same files. That would be nice!
epninety
2018-08-20, 17:51
Erm, sad. Is it Sterllarium for Sailfish 0.9.1 or is it another version?
Stellarium SFM 0.3-1 from OpenRepos (Identifies as 0.12.3 on the console output)
I think I found another version here on TMO, and I seem to remember it was supposed to fix a display issue. Could be the one you're having. Let me check if I can find the post where I found it, otherwise I can send you the rpm and let you test on the Gemini.
[Edit] Oh, it was here (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1538644&postcount=22) but now I see the one in Openrepos is an update to that, I should probably update too by the way. Sorry for the false hope.
railroadmaster
2018-08-22, 01:03
My delivery is now in City of Industry. It is no longer in customs or being inspected. I should get it soon, possibly tomorrow!
railroadmaster
2018-08-22, 14:04
USPS says my package should be delivered today! I will do an unboxing video soon.
I would appreciate that. I'm still looking for a replacement for my netbook (Eee 1000) that I like. I don't want to spend a fortune in Apple Tax and I don't need stupidly high specs. Gemini or GPD are one option but I'm not sure if they are too small.
Having upgraded the RAM to 2GB, it still matches RAM and beats HDD storage (40 Vs 32) of most of the current equivalent price and size replacements. CPU and RAM speed they hands down will beat the Atom N270/ DDR2 setup but not worth my money if the other specs aren't higher. Even the 4GB RAM in some wouldn't justify it.
I am using both, GPD Pocket and Gemini and they are quite different: the GPD is is just a normal Windows Laptop with a trackpoint that is very helpful on a small screen. To work with documents, the 7" screen of the GPD is better than the 6" screen of the Gemini. Build quality of the GPD pocket is superb, battery life and performance are good.
The Gemini is more pocketable and has a modem and it runs SFOS along with Android and Linux as recoliste correctly pointed out.
railroadmaster
2018-08-23, 01:19
https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/39944404_667113803664763_6314708463314272256_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=ff01439b63c3346d53dbf28446bd4abd&oe=5BFF9A57
My new device
railroadmaster
2018-08-23, 09:10
Next to a HP Pro Tablet 608 G1
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/39937396_667228436986633_3197993216506855424_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=7ff7ad45d6dc628cd5559986f7fef5f6&oe=5C375B5C
Lucky you, hope you'll like it!
Can we see it open and closed next to a typical TMO device, like a N900, N9, Jolla or Jolla C?
railroadmaster
2018-08-23, 14:46
I got T-Mobile LTE and VOLTE to work. Initially I wasn't able to get data working but tweaking the sim card settings got it to pick up T-Mobile's LTE network. Unfortunately while there is no 3g or 3.5g data for areas without LTE, but LTE works better than did my previous two devices. Plus neither of my devices did VoLTE.
epninety
2018-08-23, 16:05
Lucky you, hope you'll like it!
Can we see it open and closed next to a typical TMO device, like a N900, N9, Jolla or Jolla C?
Next to my JollaC...
epninety
2018-08-23, 20:17
Didn't have a third phone to take pictures earlier on...
N900 (of course), X and Gemini
http://www.ep90.com/images/maemo/gemini/1.JPG
http://www.ep90.com/images/maemo/gemini/2.JPG
http://www.ep90.com/images/maemo/gemini/3.JPG
http://www.ep90.com/images/maemo/gemini/4.JPG
Hope that's useful :)
deutch1976
2018-08-23, 21:33
Does gemini have camera?
It has front camera. Back camera has to be bought separately and it costs more than 50€
epninety
2018-08-23, 21:52
... and both seem to have a quality in keeping with the best traditions of Sailfish powered devices :(
Alledgedly - I don't have the additional camera and haven't used the front one other than to check it functions. Pictures posted by other owners have been underwhelming though.
Thanks a lot for the pics, it really helps.
epninety
2018-08-24, 15:42
Since we're on a run of photos... I said I couldn't find a case I liked for the Gemini. Chinese ebay vendor I've used before made me a custom size version of one of their standard cases for $20 + shipping :)
It just arrived this afternoon.
http://www.ep90.com/images/maemo/gemini/case1.jpg
http://www.ep90.com/images/maemo/gemini/case2.jpg
http://www.ep90.com/images/maemo/gemini/case3.jpg
Sorry for the awful photography :o
Since we're on a run of photos... I said I couldn't find a case I liked for the Gemini. Chinese ebay vendor I've used before made me a custom size version of one of their standard cases for $20 + shipping :)
It just arrived this afternoon.
http://www.ep90.com/images/maemo/gemini/case1.jpg
http://www.ep90.com/images/maemo/gemini/case2.jpg
http://www.ep90.com/images/maemo/gemini/case3.jpg
Sorry for the awful photography :o
Very nice. Thank you for the pictures.
Hi,
when i finish to download and install Gemini 7.1 planet 12062018-V1
my device restart and i have android recovery. I don't know why.
anyone have the same problem?
when device start i can do the same thing...
how to resolve this error?
Hi,
when i finish to download and install Gemini 7.1 planet 12062018-V1
my device restart and i have android recovery. I don't know why.
anyone have the same problem?
when device start i can do the same thing...
how to resolve this error?
Have you modified Android installation in any way or flashed dual-boot?
epninety
2018-08-30, 21:45
I`m no expert, but I would start by building a new rom image on the pc website, and reflashing that using all freshly installed tools and carefully following the flashing instructions, just in case I messed something up.
I flashed a triple boot image with minimal rooted android, debian and sfos, and it worked fine straight out of the box. I did have some initial snags getting connected to flash, but otherwise it was straightforward.
Have you modified Android installation in any way or flashed dual-boot?
I never do that
I received a mailing from Planet Computers this morning: they are going to make a "BIG Announcement" on Nov. 5, and suggest that people check their web site or social media channels on the day.
Let's see what's coming....
Yeah, also shared on Facebook.
epninety
2018-10-30, 16:51
Maybe they will announce they have licenced the slogan 'Soon(tm)' from Jolla to use for delivery schedules on their webshop.
When their camera module became available to order again (no longer marked out of stock) I ordered one. I think it's about 8 weeks ago, no sign of any action yet.
Feathers McGraw
2018-10-30, 17:15
5th November, presumably whatever they are announcing will cause Theresa May's processor to explode?
https://pics.me.me/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november-28805243.png
clovis86
2018-10-31, 15:43
Anyhow, SFOS 3 is already available for EA :
https://together.jolla.com/question/191509/release-notes-300-lemmenjoki/
endsormeans
2018-10-31, 16:49
I am all for proper and just government..
But ..
The concept of destruction of institution ...
ie Guy Fawkes philosophy and subsequent attempt ..
which has become ...fashionable ..as a belief..
(and as history has repeatedly instructed for millennia )
in what expected results ...exactly?
As clarion-call , and blood stirring the philosophy is...
A better stratagem to achieve a lasting positive change for the populace , as a solution makes sense ...
instead of eternally circularly banging humanity's head on the revolving doors of either :
A- failed attempts ..
and the existing regimes using the iron hand to clamp down on the populace...
or
B- succeed...
and result in chaos and most likely a worse regime and conditions for the populace...
A better way there must be.
instead of emotionally "all-be-damned" assaulting the establishment.
.and there is always a better way..
It just must be intelligently discovered...
but enough of this OT from me here.
I really hope for something nice right here. A landscape QWERTY phone?
I really hope for something nice right here. A landscape QWERTY phone?
Hm, maybe a link-up with Purism to make a Librem 5 variant in the Gemini form factor? ;)
I'm guessing that the announcement may have something to do with Sailfish OS, but that's just speculation on my part. We'll see on Monday.
or maybe a new variant with ANY kind of screen on the front that will make it usable as a phone also.
Yep. Any kind of screen has been added. Also a camera and the fingerprint reader / toggle switch thingy.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator
Yep. Any kind of screen has been added. Also a camera and the fingerprint reader / toggle switch thingy.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator
Looks a sensible answer to the most frequent criticisms - interesting. I would wish for LIneage OS no gapps, dual boot debian, yummy.
Looks great! I would buy one if it wasn’t a for the Tablet scam. Now I’m happy to wait for in stock even if it means a few hundred bucks add-on. and also to see if chen is time panning to announce something before end of year.
:oNow we have this project. Scam or not time will tell.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator#/
When will this Q-device face the battle of qwerty device of 2019?
Whats OS will be shipped if any.
I need to meditate to find the true path!
I like the look of that, seems to address some of the shortcomings of the last one very nicely.
robthebold
2018-12-21, 15:06
Just now noticed this new project, but I just can't Indiegogo. Not because of the Jolla tablet thing -- I got half my money back -- but their response to the Youyota actual scam. And by "response" I mean Indiegogo has done nothing and continue to take more money including their cut!
Well, you can always order the device from the site, when the Indemand campaign is over and they move it to the shop. The price will be a bit higher though.
rcolistete
2019-01-06, 17:09
Debian stretch 9.4 is ARM 64 bits, currently needs some configuration (automount uSD, change hostname, CLI Bluetooth device configuration, touchscreen as touchpad), but itsn't 100% operational as 3G/4G doesn't work (only WiFi and Bluetooth) and there are some softwares with too small fonts (Gnome one's ?), like Synaptic, IDLE, Geogebra, etc.
Yesterday I've succeded configuring 3G/4G for mobile data on Debian 9.6 for Gemini 4G. :cool:
I haven't tried SMS or phone calls, it needs more configuration and I won't use them on my Gemini.
rcolistete
2019-01-06, 22:43
Tried : SMS and phone calls are working, with GUI software ! Yeah, on Debian 9.6 LXQt @ Gemini 4G.
Has anyone tried this site (https://buynewstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=31)?
It seems that they sell the product for 89 euros, I don't know if it is possible to choose the keyboard, though.
mrsellout
2019-01-25, 23:54
If it looks too good to be true, it usually is.
But if you need further evidence, I failed to find even a trading address on the site
Meanwhile they claim to have 176 in stock, which is remarkable as the Cosmo Communicator isn't in production yet!
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator?utm_source=affiliate&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=sasdeep&utm_content=link&sscid=11k3_ojd9c#/updates/all
Edit: I think Dave has a word for this kind of thing :)
Has anyone tried this site (https://buynewstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=31)?
It seems that they sell the product for 89 euros, I don't know if it is possible to choose the keyboard, though.
Awesome! They even managed to spell "store" (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=100604) correctly this time around.
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