Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Thanks for script. I believe your evidence is unequivocal. But why it works is another thing (I wonder if using a tor proxy with exit nodes can be used to test country effect?). And you confirm that supl.google is a goner.
So, it would be inteesting for others to test with petur's script after a reboot. what supl works and where are you?

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Yep, confirmed from my previous tests using test-location AFTER
gconftool --recursive-unset /system/nokia/location
AND a
reboot
and reconfiguring supl server in settings (sorry for delay, had to sort some other things out).

Funny is:
it works with WiFi and vodafone network 2G/3G, but NOT with O2-de GPRS/UMTS. So it is proven (google dead, vodafone works for some ...)


Yep. ONLY after above procedure (both clearing and reboot) you will get reliable results (or using petur's py)!



Did not know about these script(s). Mind telling us the source?

Nevertheless, now we have one supl server left delivering location cell tower based position. :)
Better than nothing, but it is not real assisted GPS. And we do not know the reason for nokia/google failing yet :(

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Same here in the Netherlands. With supl.google.com I get the location of the city of Baarn, which is indeed in the center of the country. And supl.vodafone.com provides me accurate info.

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

There's a Google Latitude thread somewhere on the forum here (*) that contains several iterations of the script, the hard part for them was to get Google Latitude to update (and it doesn't work anymore), but the location part was pretty good, I just changed the method from AGNSS to ACWP to make it NOT use GPS.

This helped too:
http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Using_Location_API

(*) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38542

(edited to add URL of relevant forum topic)

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

After using gconftool and rebooting I can confirm that vodafone does not work with either Tele2 or Tre(3) Sweden.

I guess from other info in peterleinchen's post that agreements between ISPs or lack thereof, are playing a role here. Something else in the case of google...

Is info from syslog why you don't think supl.vodafone is providing a full supl service?

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Nope, just a simple implication from test-location-gui providing cell based location (acwp), but not returning data for agnss.

Maybe I should enable syslog again and try once more? But I do not expect to see anything more ...

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

For me supl.google.com started working again via 3G/T-mobile germany, the last days i never got gps-fix, today in the car 150km from home i started nokia maps and got the fix in some seconds (maybe just luck?)

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

I can confirm that supl.vodafone.com work with Telkomsel carrier in Indonesia

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

I have wondered what that info would be: the exchanges between n900 and the supl server? As I assume u don't mean the gps coords that do eventually pitch up
:)

Very peculiar that a supl server provides acwp but not 'full-house'.

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

same thing here with supl.google.com - started working again about 2 weeks ago via 3G (malaysia, on Maxis). it used to take about anywhere from 1 minute upwards to get a lock. i now get one in about 10 seconds max (actually, it used to be much faster like 3-5 seconds, but 10 seconds is fine by me).

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Again. I repeat. Supl.google.com IS working here.
Dont know why some insists im faking it. I never do.
Might be a carrier/country whatever deal I have no idea, but it gives a good location in ~15 secs.

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Again. I repeat. How fast you get a lock means nothing. When I set it to supl.google.com I get cr*p ACWP support, if I enable GPS I get a lock in <30 seconds.
It's *very* hard to reliably test what is going on, I'm using ACWP only as a measure because I can see clear differences between selected servers:
- set desired server
- reboot
- run acwp script I posted

Maybe I should wireshark the connection between n900 and supl.* to show what is going on.

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

i actually dont really care if supl.google.com is working or not. what's more important to me is the end result i.e. accurate gps lock is achieved in a short time - which is what i am experiencing now. as for the agps cache - no such issue since my phone has a scheduled reboot task that runs everyday.

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Fine, but this thread isn't about your ends results (sorry ;) ), but about *real* A-GPS. Not to mention that you *won't* get such good results *if* real A-GPS support would be needed to gain it (quickly) in the first place, but frankly, we don't care about you results. We care about A-GPS (in this thread, at least).
---

Now, about the real things:

Very good idea. As said earlier, I remember someone respectable to mention, that even supl.nokia.com works *fully*, if A-GPS request is passed through a middle-man A-GPS server installed on N900 (the way, that local server "ask" supl.nokia.com, instead of N900 "asking" directly).

I can find the source quote for a life of mine, but it would be very interesting to RE it - after all, supl.nokia.com works for recently released Nokia devices. I bet, that they're filtering out requesting devices on purpose.

Knowing WTF is going on and what they use to identify, we could implement a way to mimic other device for our trusty N900 (and even implement possibility to do it from control panel, via CSSU, just like browser allow to change user agent).

/Estel

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Has someone packaged the proxy software at http://www.tajuma.com/supl/ somewhere?

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

I believe this is what Estel is referring to. Nice find...

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

It could also give us a way to simply push the data ourselves. More often than not when people use GPS they know roughly where they are (city, state, etc). Even if the AGPS guess is off by a good distance, it doesn't change the satellite constellation the GPS is looking for that much. If one could even set/enter rough default coordinates, as long as you're in the ball park (+/- a degree) it will cut the time needed for GPS to lock dramatically.

While the GPS code is closed (preventing us from directly injecting a guess at a starting point), this may be a good way to fake it. A local supl server that computes a rough guess and feeds it to the closed source that then injects the right data.

Would be a popular project if someone's willing to take it up. :D

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

not quite that simple. The location servers return with a limited information, cached, making a near - but not complete set of location data. This data is cached. And the difference I believe. Is that the set of data is a bit late. Not real time. But, ofcourse we could cache similat response

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

So what is the consensus, would this intermediate proxy still work? Seems odd that supl.nokia allows the n9 et al but not the n900 yet would allow some arbitrary proxy supl. Or is it a certificate /ssl issue? Wireshark did not show ssl packets to supl.vodafone on my n900. It showed sslv3 for imap traffic.

But I am on one tenth knowledge here :) so someone smart with both an n9 and a n900 should sniff both supl'ing away...

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

I was trying the supl proxy on my server and pointing my N900 to it. However results were inconclusive, I wasn't sure if my N900 was even happy with my supl server's certificates, making it tough to see what the real problem was...
I definitely did see some wireshark activity on port 7275 however, but didn't pursue it further after getting T-Mobile's server working... Granted a public server would be better as then it would also work on wifi...

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Though I am happy with supl.vodafone.com I took some time today fiddling around with supl-proxy from tajuma.com .

I checked against all working supl-server I know of:

sls1.sirf.com
supl.google.com
supl.nokia.com
supl.sonyericsson.com
supl.vodafone.com

Everytime with preceeding steps in N900:
- gconftool --recursive-unset /system/nokia/location
- reboot
- setting location server to my server with running supl-proxy (pointed to the next supl server from the five mentioned above)
- running location test tool with method ACWP (with OK to supl usage terms)

To my surprise I got a quick (less than 10sec) location result within some hundred meters around with three of the five servers:

sls1.sirf.com
supl.nokia.com
supl.vodafone.com

With the others I got quite more data exchanged, but didn't get a location result.
If anyone is interested, see my proxy logfiles attached.

Without supl-proxy , just pointing my N900 to the five servers directly (with all the preceeding steps), the only server working for me is supl.vodafone.com .

I set up supl-proxy on my own network gateway and when I was rechecking without proxy my N900 was on wifi in my own network. So all request from same IP to the supl servers.

Okay, this could mean that N900 has probs with the data coming from google and sonyericsson, but for sirf and nokia(!) the only cause for failing - left to see to me - is certificate issues.
peterleinchen, seems you where quite right with your assumptions ...

I verified certificate chain on N900 (should have done earlier):
And for Nokia:
Too bad.
Checking the chain:
I already had a short look into the cert chain , replacing VeriSign certs in certificate manager (via cmcli). But with no luck.
One can find all VeriSign root certs at http://www.symantec.com/page.jsp?id=roots .

Maybe someone has more abilities to digg deeper into it. Would be nice to have supl.nokia.com usable again. Until then supl.vodafone.com is good enough for my needs.

Cheers, Ulle

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Superb research Ulle!
Could and should maemo.org run supl-proxy for us?
Was it easy to build? (for linux?).

How much traffic (kb/mb) in an exchange?

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

If you're going the (local or remote) supl-proxy route, which I intended to try as soon as I can get a Maemo dev environment set up, I strongly suggest you have a look at the open databases of cell IDs and wireless APs at http://openbmap.org/ and http://www.opencellid.org/ - I think prehaps with ephemeris data added, these could make a much better, more accurate, and open, SUPL server than we can currently get.

I think the Maemo app CellNet-info uses one of those sites to provide lat/long info for a cell, but I'm not entirely sure at the moment.

An open SUPL server would benefit not only the N900, but virtually any modern phone.

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

I know that (and openssl returns also error when not pointed to /etc/certs/common-ca).
But why on earth does cmcli return an error even when pointed explicitly to common-ca???
That made me thinking of hard-coded certs in GPS blob.

And why supl.nokia.com returns result for N900 when using proxy?

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

hmm, seems you have misread my post, if given
"-CApath /etc/certs/common-ca/", it does not fail

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

No no, I read and understood correctly.
As I made same experience.

openssl fails when not pointed to common-ca
openssl succeeds when pointed to common-ca

cmcli fails when not pointed to common-ca
cmcli fails also even when pointed to common-ca

So that means we have all needed certs aboard, but mabe they are not used or ... ?
At least Nokia and Google changed their cert paths in the past.

And the proxy acts as a proxy? Or initiates a completely new connection to supl? In first case it would not work afaik as ssl/cert communication is just forwarded?

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

...we have a bug in /usr/bin/location-proxy

I am thinking to RE that, it is not that big, but before I start, could someone try to confirm(somehow?) this is the binary to blame

EDIT: seems like it is libmaemosec.so to blame

EDIT2: microb doesn't have any problem connecting to supl.nokia.com:7275

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Oh man you are the man!

Why we did not contact you directly? Maybe because I did not want to put everything on your shoulder.
Eagerly waiting for a result. Be it positive or negative.

BIG thanks in advance.
How to do you a favour (already declined donations)?

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Find why "cmcli fails also even when pointed to common-ca" :)

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

:rolleyes: Yeah, sure! ;):D

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

caveat: afaik supl.nokia.com is geo-ip, and just _some_ (most?) of the boxen are broken. You however may pick a good one at random

/j

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

May I add:
# host supl.nokia.com
supl.nokia.com is an alias for nokia.supl.svc.ovi.com.
nokia.supl.svc.ovi.com is an alias for nokia.supl.geo.geodns.fi.
nokia.supl.geo.geodns.fi is an alias for dk.nokia.supl.geodns.fi.
dk.nokia.supl.geodns.fi has address 83.150.75.211

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

I was thinking of this too (okay, more have it running on my dyndns linux box). Main issue is: supl-proxy stops after each request/session.
Someone would have to extend the code to a forked mode or sth ...

See my logfiles. About 3kB for sirf, nokia and vodafone (with result) . 40-50kB for google and sonyericsson (no usable result). Of course double each at proxy server.

For the ones still interested:
Installation of supl-* from tajuma.com is fairly easy linux standard. The software package has pretty good documentation i.e. a README which is definitely worth the name.
I didn't try building it for N900, I wouldn't know where to start for that.
I recommend installing it on a linux machine in your local network with
Generate the required certificates with included supl-cert prog. Instead of a fqdn as the first param just give the ipaddress of your linux machine. Then scp the file ca-cert.pem to your N900 and install it as a common certification authority with (as root)
Then do the preceeding steps from my previous post, setting location server in N900 to your linux box ip address.

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Thats interesting!
So we need to find a working nokia.supl box (maybe from nokiabot in india?) and put that ip into /etc/hosts on our N900 ...

Edit: That probably doesn't solve the cert issues :(
Edit2: There seem to be just 4 ip addresses around for supl.nokia.com:
211.151.53.216
213.157.72.147
213.157.79.103
83.150.75.211

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Whilst there is yet no solution, this thread has expanded knowledge!

If supl.nokia is geo variable yet actually works for some (does it? Nokiabot did not report back on a reboot scenario with ACWP) then certs may not be a critical factor.

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

That may well be so.
This is from my machine at work:
...and this is from home:
Note the us versus uk but the IP addresses are the same.

FWIW, none of the 5 URLs from post #101 nor the nieldk's IP address (83 etc) worked for me. I am in the UK, tested with ACWP on a home WiFi network. My last lock was one reboot and about a week ago and about 100 km away so caching is out of the equasion.

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

Hmm, this is getting more weird:

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

:P

(Seems we have a broken .pem/invalid certificate in /etc/certs/common-ca)

Re: Nokia N900 A-GPS Not Working Anymore
 

hmm, could you please explain to me what I see in post above, and what I conclude from that. I'm probably not into this cert stuff enough to even interprete the cmcli commands and their diagnostic output, the less I see how we're going to fix this stuff now.

/j