Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Due to lack of apps on wp, Nokia is almost SOL. Investors are demanding a plan B, which Elop is not sure of.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/12/nokia_plan_b/

In this article, analysts are suggesting Elop to have an asset sale of its mobile phone business. Crazy stuff.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...2J01-M2DHM.DTL

Edit: New BusinessWeek/Bloomberg article with analysts saying Nokia going to junk status within a year. Credit swaps are at all time high, so not good.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ate-finance#p1

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Because you listed a link to the Register and then listed a link to an American website, the majority of the folks here will invariably disregard what is being said.

No Plan B... that was always a very bad decision not to have one. I think the brink of failure isn't immediate; but it's close enough to where it will be in the next 5 years if not sooner.

Brink just connotes that it's around the corner.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

i don't know how they can pull it back, i honestly think they will get bought by someone, since investors want results, and Nokia take forever to do anything, unless it's pushed by Microsoft.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

there was never a plan B. One executive of Nokia said that "Nokia's plan B is to make Plan A (Windows Phone) a success."

Nokia is loosing market share badly with Windows Phone. Even Symbian was doing much better than Windows Phone. Just one announcement of Elop ruined everything for Nokia.

Nokia shares are still dropping.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I am hoping that they can survive this, but their on hand cash is dwindling. They are losing money per lumia set, and the problem is each lumia 900 costs more than a 4S to manufacture. Analysts are saying 5 months to turn around, hope they are wrong.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

This all shows that Nokia was batshit crazy to ditch Maemo/Meego and Symbian in favour of Windows Phone.

They should (but wont) release the N9 worldwide ASAP. And start work on a couple of extra devices - 1 a large screened phone/tablet similar to a Galaxy Note, and an N950 type device with all the bells and whistles.

While they're at it, release a E7 mark 2 with microsd, bigger battery etc etc similar to AllAboutSymbian's april fool here

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

There's about a $10 difference in cost to manufacture. Only reason they're losing money is the temporary discounts. They have enough cash to do this game another 2 years...

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Hopefully in their last throes, they will do desperate, but fun things, like crazy giveaways, more linux based phones or devices, opening code, etc.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Call me grievious, but I actually want WP to fail, even if it means hard times for Nokia. I feel the platform has very little to offer, and is in fact contributing to the trend of the very locked down and closed mobiles as we see with iOS and BB. Even the N9 has been subjected to this trend.
Also, the lack of support for existing open protocols on WP is disturbing, as is the lack of true multitasking. Again, while the N9 is absolute king on multitasking (beats Android hands down) the N9 also lacks support for some of these protocols. True, these features won't win the hearts of the general population as they require some technical insight which that population seems to lack.

While I don't really like Google and I wouldn't call Android truly open (Android's development is quite closed, compared to Qt, Java) I would still choose it over Windows Phone in an instant.

Btw, I do wonder if the "lack of apps" is the true reason why WP isn't really selling as hot cakes. But if it is, they have a problem. WP doesn't support OpenGL ES as 3D framework. iOS, Android and Harmattan do, which makes porting 3D apps (games!) so much easier. While it would be next to impossible to run Android-apps on WP, it wouldn't be very hard to make them run on Harmattan. That might fix the "low app count", but would also damage the support for their own platform - why write a special version of an app if the Android version works too.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Agree with some of what you said, but not the cash. Lower margins, negative profits, constant inside costs, hammered stock price, and ratings lowered by s&p and Moody's has and will make their cash pile dwindle. I do see a junk rating in 12 months, hopefully I am wrong.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Next thing they will do:

* Not releasing new Belle camera mobile. Reason they dont want to sell it. It would hurt upcoming WP cameraphone.

* Sell out the rest of Qt

* Marketing WP even harder. fire 5000 more engineers.

* And Elop will get even higher payment for doing a great job.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Dudes. There is a plan B whatever Elop & Co said. If not Elop has one he will be forced to leave.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Sure. Plan B is for Microsoft to take over Nokia, that was the plan all along ;)

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

You and me both I want WP to fail not just for Nokia but as an OS. I don't want the likes of MS nowhere near the mobile market as they have proven to be the most competition hostile company ever. And I feel that their constant failure in the mobile market is their punishment for all the **** they have done in the desktop market.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Or he will sell off Nokia assets. I don't like Elop like the rest of us; his management of MeeGo and Symbian was atrocious. He should not have announced the demise of the two OS's. Terrible for business. If I had been him, I would have announce WP, and let Symbian fade away into the sunset without the announcement. Troves abandoned Symbian b/c of that.

Microsoft has lagged behind with app development on most of the competing 'apps' in iOS and Android. This has been a bane for Nokia. Most people in this world, other than us, want 'apps'. Apps, apps, apps...like a solid browser with excellent support does not matter. They care less about UI and design than we do. Look at Android, laggy Java, not optimised for crap unless it is a energy sucking dual/quad core cpu. But the public has spoken, and most of them are told what they want, and it is 'apps', which WP is certainly lacking right now (not the basic apps, the specialized 3rd party ones, like from certain banks, services, websites, etc.)

Microkia is showing cracks. If Nokia does not have a good plan B, Junk is the future. Good will goes a long way in the stock market. If Elop/Espoo announces something the public shareholders want to hear, more cash for them. If not, they WILL turn into Blackberry, a ship that is almost beached at this point.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

They should just cave in and release an Android phone...maybe try to negotiate a deal with Google to create the next Nexus.

It won't happen imo, but if they are really in the gutter, I'd jump onto Android and continue Maemo (or switch to Tizen and co) if I were them.

WP7 while looks good, is still shite under the skin. Both Symbian and Harmattan are superior to it.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

SNo, I really hope I never see an Android from nokia. It would be as bad as Microsoft on desktop market.

NOKIA will fire lots of employees and change the foundations of the company before they can grow again. But with Android its impossible.

Nokia passed Motorola 98, and samsung jumped ahead of Nokia 2012. Nothing lasts forever. Nokia will jump back, it's a matter of time. ;) and hard work, new processes and new ways of thinking and working. Easy to write hard to do.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Naw bro. That's Plan A. Plan B was everything else...

You couldn't have scripted a better takeover than this. I don't know to say "well played" or just "they've been played".

I'm waiting to see Nokia's name on this list confirmed as part of their past mobile strategy partnerships that led to a takeover.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

This is depressing to me in the same way that the Mehdi Ali/Commodore shenanigans were in the 90's.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Actually I wouldn't mind Nokia running Android subject to a condition that Nokia has its own UI/UX/Icons and beatiful handset that they have shown with MeeGo / WP. I really don't care if can root it or not, if I can write my own code on the go on it or because for all that I have N900.

Need a beatifully simple phone that has few more games that are only available on Android.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Nokia N9 beats Samsung and HTC smartphones on customer satisfaction:

http://www.noknok.tv/2012/04/06/noki...-satisfaction/

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Have you seen ex-Nokia Exec Tomia Honen's blog post on the subject. Compelling reading.

I particularly like the bit

the N9 (the smartphone running the new MeeGo OS) was universally loved in every single review published - in fact it has had the most positive reception of any Nokia phone ever released from the beginning of time, whether smart or dumb. It is the only phone, the N9, among any manufacturers since 2007 (when the iPhone launched), to be regularly rated either as good or indeed better than the contemporary iPhone. As for the N9 in October 2011 that was obviously the brand new hot iPhone 4S, that is truly amazing praise for the N9 and its MeeGo OS

It's a long post, but well worth the 20+ minutes to read. Here's the link http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...nd-growth.html

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

maybe with articles like this

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27703/

It wouldn't be so much pissing in your pants for warmth anywmore.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

That's plain stupid. What is MS going to do with all that hardware when their OS is dead? If Nokia (the Lumia series) goes down, so does WP and eventually MS. Elop is deadly honest when he say there is no plan B.

I'm tired of Nokia. Samsung/Tizen is on the run: http://www.sammobile.com/2012/04/12/...ning-on-tizen/

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

seeing some of the presenters at this conference, I think I will be getting into the Tizen thing. thp, the maliit guy, etc etc. As long as there is some control of device under the html5 top layer, I'm in. Admittedly I haven't researched it yet.

Presumably some of the maemo brain drain has gone to either intel meego or samsung tizen as well

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Think about it... Microsoft will pump more MS Office license and XBOX derived revenue into Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8, get at least a level of interoperability that is only afforded to those that are that (declining) world/ecosystem and declare it the next best thing since sliced bread and/or iOS or Android and use Nokia as their OEM.

As it stands, that's a very short term strategy, perhaps 18-22 months at most.

But what if that fails? Nokia kicks out Elop, Microsoft could very well oust Ballmer.

I'm waiting to see what really happens. Tizen will have to show me more than just HTML5 scores to keep my interest.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

in the so-called post pc(mobile) era and the so-called cloud(virtualization) era microsoft is gonna have to give windows 8 for free. Windows OS revenue is decreasing anyway, office, sharepoint, exchange, xbox are all increasing.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Kind of agree to that, but with Tizen there are some optimism.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Wow. What a depressing conversation thread. At least for Nokia. I am actually much more positive about this. I think that this was well predicted, and that is why MS is giving NOKIA money, because NOKIA knew that Symbian wither fast, with or without Elop announcement, and MS money will help in transition.

The strategic alliance is not thinking quarters here, but many years. The true NOKIA-MS device was just released in the US, and more will come in the next 24 months. NOKIA is going thru transition, and it is natural that they will go through a nadir. I dont think NOKIA will go bankrupt, I do believe that they will rebound and BE a viable third ecosystem

All of this clearly depends on how well two companies interact together. If they dig in and work hard together, they will be successful. However, if finger pointing begins for poor results, that will be a disaster. Current financial results do not therefore predict much, and I still think that MS and NOKIA control their fate. My 50 cents

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

inb4 misterc & danramos... 3... 2...1...

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

That was a good read, even though I saw how the end was going to pan out early on. The part of the article where he described how Nokia was starving the carriers and customers of the desired handsets reminded me of the old Classic Coke scenario. One can only dream right now.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I am less optimistic than this. I may even be said to be pessimistic, this time.

Nokia will be the next Sun to some Oracle. Or dare I say Macromedia to Adobe. I'd say that with some confidence since I know that Nokia holds a lot of IP so they wouldn't go bankrupt first, but I can't because I believe Microsoft may have just ran off with that already, in their IP deal.

Either way, Nokia isn't going to recover. They're committed to their strategy and won't re-evaluate their Windows Phone strategy until it's clear if Windows Phone 8.1/8.5 is a success or not.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

so here's a future that i'm hoping might happen. WP fails for Nokia.......elop gets fired.....they change direction and go back to Meego?? :)

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

I fully 100% agree with this blogs analysis.

Somebody please remove this very destructive man from the picture! Please?????!!!!
SOMEBODY PLEASE! He is destroying the company and destroying Finlands income and destroying jobs, he is just destructive. Please someone remove this person NOW ANd reverse his OS decisions.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

For certain people there comes a day

when they are called upon to say the great Yes

or the great No. It's clear at once who has

the Yes within him at the ready, which he will say


as he advances in honor, in greater self-belief.

He who refuses has no second thoughts. Asked

again, he would repeat the No. And nonetheless

that No -- so right -- defeats him all his life.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

If it gets to that point then Nokia won't have the cash reserves to be a meaningful competitor and will go the way of Palm.

In other news, neckbeard tears are my primary source of food. I feel like a kid who just ate at a Pizza Hut buffet for the first time.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Eh...I love Maemo 6, but it wasn't ready for mainstream. Mainstream is 1000's of 'apps', again, the dumb public wants that, apps, apps, apps. Elop did the right thing in going with another OS that had a lot of potential. But again, he announced that Symbian and Maemo6/MeeGo were going bye bye, and everyone jumped ship from those devices, EVEN though Nokia still had devices in the pipeline not even released that were Symbian. He DIDN'T EVEN have a WP device ready when he made that announcement. Very stupid, ruined their year. Foolish on his part.

What I want is this: A popular Nokia OS for the masses, boring, with lots of apps. And for us, a Maemo device release every year, 1.5 years, or even every 2 years.

I digress. Nokia has made very egregious errors this past fiscal year. They are not at bankrupcy level yet. They are not as bad as Blackberry or Sony right now, but they are close. Their credit swap default is more than double of last year. Elop boarded a sinking ship, and he took out some of the water, but the water keeps coming in. He needs to get another robust OS with an excellent 'app' selection, that is supported by multiple 3rd party devs as well. We all keep yelling MeeGo/Maemo is that, but I don't think Nokia has the devs or resources to start from ground up.

Hell, if they do decide on Maemo, awesome, I'm on board, none of this dumbed down Meltemi BS either. Unless Meltemi is Maemo 7, then, great, I'm on board. But it is doubtful they will go with Maemo as another OS.

As for Tizen, that is going to run into the same issues MeeGo did. Samsung does not have the creativity Nokia has, and their devices are crap quality.

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

Totally unrelated to this thread.. BUT OMG, can you please learn to put the thread in the right forum and learn how to search for existing threads so you don't duplicate??

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

@Maemomd

How exactly does one escape the blackhole-catch 22 of that which you describe of, "it doesn't have thousands of apps" or did you just say something contrary just to be contrary.....yeah i think so.

Announcing next month the new Nokia phone especially for people who just like to post contrary things on internet forums, the "not ready for mainstream yet ready for mainstream phone"

The new phone that has 14,150 apps before it even exists on the market. It exists before it even exists, it is called the time traveling phone or the N to the nizine, completely immune from forum commenters that post contrary posts just to post a contrary statement.

<snip>"Elop did the right thing in going with another OS that had a lot of potential" etc., etc..<snip>

grrrrrrrr
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...boil_over1.jpg

GRRRRRRR
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...er-264x300.jpg

Hulk smash!
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2.../hulksmash.jpg

QT!!!!

Re: Nokia on the brink of failure
 

@aironeous

Relax, I am talking about the public, not this community. They want things right now, and WP has been out for 2 years, still lacking a lot of 3rd party support. Blackberry's new OS is having the same issue, as well as webOS did. Unfortunately, in order for an OS do well, people want the 'appstore' like iTunes or Android now has. I prefer Maemo, open community, no tracking, overclocking, etc. WP had two years to get the support it still lacks. If Nokia goes with Maemo for plan B, they better start courting devs right now, kicking into 7th gear, get 3rd party support, etc., which they are not doing. Maemo community is much more patient and forgiving then the masses.

Elop is deep $hjt if his plan doesn't work out, but so is Nokia. And none of what I said is 'contrary'. :-)