How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

After fiddling around for a while and removing almost everything unnecessary I managed to get a upto 104.1 MB free.

Just wondering, is it possible to go even further?

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

please do you remember or could you tell us what files you removed ?
and does anything goes wrong after removing them ?
just want to free some more :D
and about your question as you said you can only remove what is not needed and the rest is a files for the system . i think

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

@gearspec,

There's no answer to your question. Anything above zero is OK. Your root file system is on a chip that is way faster than the embedded MMC, so moving system files away from / serves no purpose, unless you really need the space for something else.

It's the same as with RAM. The more free RAM, the more you're wasting resources for no particular reason.

Would you buy a car with 300HP only to drive at 80km/h on a German Autobahn? I wouldn't either.

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

Initially it was 113 MB free. As I installed couple of libraries it was down to 104.4 MB

The device has no issues. Mostly because, nothing related to system functionality was removed.

Performed tasks:
A) Used Tanner's moveroot script.( http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Tanner )
B) Removed these via:
------------------------------------------
1. Amazon Installer
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove amazon-installer

2. AP News Installer
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove ap-installer

3. Document To Go Installer
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove dtg-installer

4. Foreca Installer
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove foreca-installer

5. tutorial-home-applet
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove tutorial-home-applet osso-tutorial*
rm -rf /usr/share/tutorial-applet

6. RSS
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove osso-rss-feed-reader*

7. Blocks
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove maemoblocks

8. Chess
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove gnuchess osso-graphics-game-chess osso-sounds-game-chess

9. Mahjong
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove osso-mahjong osso-graphics-game-mahjong osso-sounds-game-mahjong

10. Marbles
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove osso-lmarbles osso-graphics-game-lmarbles

11. games
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove osso-games* hildon-games-wrapper0

12. Backup
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove osso-backup*

13. User Guide
rm /usr/share/applications/hildon/user-guide.desktop

14. OVI Promotion Widget
apt-get --purge --auto-remove remove ovi-promotion-widget
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also removed Nokia Maps since I live in Bangladesh, and ovi maps isn't as updated as Google maps. microB and google maps works fine.

apt-get remove nokia-maps-core
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much followed everything in http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extras Devel and Extras Testing is only added when something is required. Removed and cleaned once the needed apps are installed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Removed all language except English.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have the following installed on the n900:

Dr.NokSnes
nGEO gui
nGEO (metal slug series rocks)
Easy Debian
--g++
--gcc
--Wings3D
--Apache
--MySQL
--BlueFish
Mypaint
LeafPad
FCamera
Mobile Hotspot
Midnight Commander
USB Host Mode
Power Kernel
Clean n900
--------------------
System never crashed or had any trouble. MicroB and everything else works fine.

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

Dear Friend I have also same problem rootfs space problem nothing install i want to install Android in Nokia N900 I have restore my nokia and clean from setting but its' problem plz some body help to :confused:

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

I seem to remember having heard or read somewhere that you start hitting lockup issues when a system is used to >75% of its capacity. That applies to any system, be it a production line, motorway, network bandwidth or rootfs space.

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

What issues do you mean? I think I have already used more than 75% of rootfs memory.

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

I'd say it's more the opposite. In general (and specially in a production line), you want to maximize utilisation. Same for bandwidth.

With disk/memory space the issue is a bit more tricky. If you use up all RAM and suddenly more RAM is needed, the allocation will either fail (e.g. if no swap) or take much longer (swapping).

With disk space there is no "swap" concept, so writing will fail. Most programs don't handle errors correctly (if at all, unfortunately), so random programs may randomly crash.

In the particular case of flash memory (rootfs, mmc, emmc), due to the wear levelling, you always need some extra free space so that writing will work.

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

You're going to have to explain your problem in more detail. Preferably in another thread, as this thread is related to a *question* not a *problem*. Opening a new thread doesn't cost you anything, and makes everything cleaner.

But before you do that, I'd suggest you use the search function on this forum (once you've identified which problem you have, if any).

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

Sorry in advance about the verbosity. I am typing this in a hurry. It might have found a more concise way of expressing myself if I had more time.

Yes, that is the most common assumption. The whole American (and, since we monkey everything after the Americans, European too) production system is based on that. However, there was once a company that stopped assuming and started measuring. They found that, perhaps counter-intuitively, utilizing your production line close to full capacity is detrimental to its throughput. Any small variation at any link in the chain causes huge dropouts in productivity. Their findings were one of the bases for the Toyota Production System, or TPS as it has become commonly known.

Have you ever wondered why, driving along the motorway, minding your own business, the traffic suddenly slows down and stops? There must be some kind of obstacle ahead, you might think. An accident, perhaps? Then the traffic starts moving again, you drive on, and - no accident, no obstacles. What has caused the holdup? The answer is, the motorway was utilized close to its full capacity. A minor fluctuation - someone trying to change lanes, for example - has triggered a wave that propagated backwards, up to the point when the whole traffic stopped.

Now substitute the word motorway with production line, network or disk and traffic with production, bandwidth or availability. Any fluid system needs some slack to work, well, fluidly. Experiments put the slack at about 20-25%.

If you look in the nature, no living system operates with such a small slack. Your lungs only absorb about 10% of the oxygen you breathe in (which is how it is possible that "kiss of life" works in the first place). I have heard various estimates of how much we use our brains, but the estimates are never higher than about 10%. Only one sperm out of many thousands fertilizes the egg. Why do we need the others? The answer is again, mother nature has discovered, through the process of natural selection, that the more slack the better chances of success.

Bringing it back to the topic, I try to keep the free space on any storage (including rootfs in my N900) above 25% of its full capacity. And I know from experience that whenever I neglected that, through laziness or lack of resources, I inevitably hit some problems later.

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

I found it just fine. Interesting observations!

When I was a child my father installed a game on our PC. It was made by some economist. You had a number of "production lines" (it was all a text-mode GUI) and you had to fiddle with some parameters, with the goal of maximizing production.

Without really understanding what the whole thing was about, I just played it like a game (most kids don't need instructions, they just find a way to, "evolutionarily", play better each time). After a few days I went to my father and said "that's weird, in order to get a better result, I have to stress a single line, where I would have thought that I need to distribute the load equally" (being a 10 year old, I used different wording, but the message was clear). His reply was that I was doing the right thing, and then showed me the book accompanying the software (no, we could not afford "cool" games) and there it was all explained.

Obviously *you* are right. Nothing is perfect, and the above only applies when no "slack" is needed, i.e. when everything happens deterministically and with no possibility of random delays or defects.

Still, in the particular case of the N900, or any computer for that matter, it seems counter-intuitive to "waste" resources (e.g. killing background programs to save memory, even if you will periodically need to start those programs again; moving stuff away from rootfs when you don't actually need that space for anything, etc.)

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

Shortly after I wrote my long post, I thought, now hang on a minute, how about burning a CD, for example? Filling it to only 75% is wasteful, is it not? Then I realized what the answer was. Yes, it was wasteful, but... a burnt CD is not a dynamic system! Once burnt, the content is static. So you do not need any slack.

So I guess the real answer depends on your usage pattern. If you do not experience any problems as it is, consider your N900 more-or-less set up and do not expect any changes in a foreseeable future, then it really does not make much sense to free up any rootfs space at all. Do not try to fix what ain't broken.

FWIW, here is my real life example: I bought my N900 second-hand. It had 67 MB rootfs free. I upgraded to CSSU and suddenly I only had 40 MB. I did not like the change but thought, what the heck, I'm not gonna need much space anyway. Until I decided to upgrade again, to CSSU-T and the damn thing complained that I needed at least 48 MB. I resolved it by running the upgrade from xterm instead of HAM but decided to set 40 MB as my limit. Come to think of it, it is only 17.6%, a bit short of 25% I preached before :)

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

i started hitting problems with my n900 had less than 5MB in rootfs.
apps wld often crash when below that.
i stuck with that for about a few months & noticed that remaining space would always fluctuate by abt a few megs.
hope the info helps.

anyway, i've modified my n900 since then.
directories /usr/bin, /usr/share, /usr/lib, /lib, are all mounted from corresponding directories i created in emmc during /sbin/preinit.
lots more storage for me now...

kh

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

oh jst a note...
it would be most strategic to keep things that often run in NAND/rootfs.
those that are huge & not often invoked, keep them in emmc.
note: it's a lot of work...

kh

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

Amen. One would hope that developers keep that in mind, but experience shows that this is not always the case.

That might be why... :)

BTW 5 MB? I never dropped that low. The lowest I got was 29 MB - and heard alarm bells ringing :)

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

Have atm only 15MB left (and yes my alarm bells are on), but still everything is smooth. Just an update to system software from Nokia (err. CSSU ;)) would not run anymore...

But have lots of kernels, modules, maps backups and so on on rootfs, so there is enough MB to move fast and easily, if necessary :)

--edit
one noticed flaw:
when downloading simultaneously from different browser windows, one of the downloads may stop/fail

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

Care to explain what exactly you've done? Would be nice if you could post your /sbin/preinit!

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

Basic idea: /lib, /usr/bin, /usr/lib, /usr/share are all from eMMC. ie: I do a "mount -o bind /home/mnt/.emmcfs0/lib /lib" etc in /sbin/preinit. There's a /lib-nand that still resides in NAND, & which was the original /lib. Same for usr/bin, /usr/lib, /usr/share. Files in /lib-nand are soft linked over to /lib (on eMMC). Due to the way it is, install of new apps would install into eMMC.

My /sbin/preinit attached. Not the latest yet as there's one small bit I'm fixing.

There's actually some more details... will post later if you want.

I did all that on a new flash image, & then reinstalled my apps.
Found out FAM lets one export list of installed apps & can reinstall all of them using that same list! But I decided to scrutinize each deb being installed this time to control mem usage (separate story; but basically, with only BT & GSM turned on, after 20 hours of idle time, I still have 80% batt left).

kh

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

how do I use the it ?

do I just execute it or use it as startup script?

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

Don't even think about using the posted /sbin/preinit if you are asking this question. Not meaning to sound arrogant or anything, but this is not a plug-in replacement for anything.

I wanted him to post his preinit to *read* it, not to *install* it. You can do the same and take it from there.

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

LOL! I had a good giggle when I saw this. :)
Yes I knew you only wanted to read this. :)

btw reinob, this is the same preinit file that lets me do rootfs on eMMC. so, some mods u c r for that.

tonypower88, yes it is not meant to be used as is.
There is quite a bit more customizations elsewhere.
I could share the info but will rely on you to be responsible for your own decisions as I barely have time to help (gonna board a flight now in fact). You'd need to know how to debug n improvise on your own.
(ie: Mount of eMMC needs to be disabled in rcS-late or something to match with this preinit script, etc). If you know what that is and can improvise, then i'll post a few other things along if u r interested.

kh

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

i think i did something wrong while trying to install gingerbread
output of df -h is
Nokia-N900:~# df -h /
Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on
rootfs 227.9M 223.5M 396.0k 100% /

trying to install kernel and it says
Nokia-N900:/home/user/MyDocs# dpkg -i NITDroid-kernel-Mido.Fayad.deb
(Reading database ... 28975 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking nitdroid-kernel-2.6.28-06 (from NITDroid-kernel-Mido.Fayad.deb) ...
Android not found. MUST be mounted on '/and'
dpkg: error processing NITDroid-kernel-Mido.Fayad.deb (--install):
subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
Errors were encountered while processing:
NITDroid-kernel-Mido.Fayad.deb
Nokia-N900:/home/user/MyDocs#


pls help
thanks

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

This happens all the time. People try to copy the whole Android to /and. It does not fit, fills up the rootfs space and doesn't work anyway as it incomplete. Please note that it must be mounted on /and, not copied. Copy it somewhere with plenty of space and mount it to /and.

Re: How much space should be free in rootFS?
 

i have instaled gingerbread and its running fine

but rootfs in maemo is full.

pls guide me how to move and mount it via termnal or case.