spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

and I hate to admit that I actually liked it (mostly). I really just used the browser functions, since that's what I was really interested in.

Overall, it seemed to be faster and more responsive than my 770. The keyboard was easy to use for me, and faster than using the stylus on the 770, since you can use two hands (fingers?) to type with. I don't have huge hands, so it worked well for me.

The browser scaling works really well, and you don't really notice that the screen is lower resolution than the nokia ITs. Pinch zooming works beautifully, as does the inertial scrolling. The way you navigate through multiple browser windows is very nice too. Somone at nokia really needs to spend time with apples UI, it really is one of the best I've used on a small device in some time. it also has a built in PIM, which I didn't really look into much, other than scrolling though the calendar.

Now for the bad: Price, of course, is a bit steep $300 for 8gb, and $400 for 16gb. I guess compared to a new n810, its not bad, (but I got the 770 new for $120). No SD slot or expandable memory, though 8gb (or 16gb) is much more than what you'd get with most of these devices out of the box. My 770 is pretty much limited to 2gb storage because it uses MMC cards.

and the worst part of the whole deal is NO FLASH SUPPORT. I went on MSN.com and went to the videos page and it said the browser is not supported. This is pretty much the deal breaker for me, since so many sites use flash content these days.

If it wasn't for the flash issue, I may have been tempted to plunk down $300 for one. Maybe in the future, someone will port firefox over with apple's new devkit, who knows. I still need to get my hands on an n810 though, and see if its as snappy and responsive as the touch. but if apple does release a dedicated internet tablet, or resolves the flash issue in the next generation touch, I may end up jumping ship. Actually, I've been ready to replace the 770 with something else for a while now, but there is nothing out there that I see as a significant improvement.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Um, what about the 770's software thumb-board as an alternative to the stylus? What's more, those buttons are bigger than the iPhone's buttons - a logical consquence of the 770's screen being bigger than the iphone's screen.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Sorry, but Apple's thumb-keyboard is WAY easier to use than Nokia's default. It's smaller, yes, but much more responsive and accurate anyway. Have you tries the Enlightenment demo of the Apple keyboard on the IT? It is awesome. (A few people have begun using it in their maemo apps.)

Anyway, I think it would serve Nokia well to look at the Apple UIs -- as they probably already do -- and vice versa.

-T.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

And why is flash support really necessary? I read that apple decided not to support it to make the browser faster. I think flash is a major resource hog and is used in most cases by advertisers and some crooks to basically take control of your browser to show adverts that you do not want to see.
Flash scripting is a major security risk and many turn it off anyway ( i do) just to not be annoyed by the eye candy.
there is a heck of a lot of bad flash out there that is not worth having to see.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Flash is necessary because a lot of websites use it, not only for embedded media, but also for menu bars and links - so if you don't have flash support, you can't navigate the site. Also, many sites/forums I go to embed youtube video in the page, which doesn't work without flash. And the Apple "youtube" browser does not take you to www.youtube.com, but rather an alternate site for mobile devices which doesn't have the same media as the www site (I couldn't find videos I had uploaded on youtube.com using the touch).

I understand why you disable flash in your mobile browsing device, and I use a script blocker on my pc at home as well, but at least I have the option of enabling flash (and setting permissions for certain sites) when I need it to view a site properly.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

The smaller size of the iTouch makes it much easier for my thumbs to reach over to the needed keys compared to the N800. But my iTouch friend said he like the N800's as much as his iTouch's.

AFAIC, the iPod families media access and interface are still king. FWIW, I still prefer physical thumb and vol. wheels (like on my Insignia MP4 player) over touchscreens - esp. when working or on the go.

IPods supposedly got a new release, or 3rd party app, that will allow access to other (presumably Flash based) video sites.

Apple has the rep of always putting out devices w/ higher prices and too little memory onboard. It's the price of innovation, I suppose. But having enough solid-state memory will be a moot point by '09 when the new terabyte tech is marketed.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

I have an n800 it works fast enough.

I was thinking about buying the iTouch, but like you said the lack of flash was a deal breaker. Also a another deal breaker is I really hate hate....did I say hate iTunes. I really dislike the way it manages music files. I want to store my music as .mp3's iTunes converts everything before storing it on an I(device) to some other format. That means I have keep my .mp3 on the computer or double store the songs on the device both as mp3's and whatever format Apple uses. Plus I find having the library and the idevice library a pain up to date.

I just really dislike iTunes.

Yet, another reason I went with the N800 was it was running linux, which I knew meant open-sourse and many free programs could be installed.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Do you know that this is an option that you can turn off in iTune's preferences? You can choose to have iTunes manage your Library or you can manage it manually (and, it will leave your mp3s as mp3s).

Tim

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

No, how do I do that?
Will my Ipod play mp3 native?

Or let me ask like this....
Can I make the ipod work without iTunes?

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

No, you need iTunes to copy music files to your iPod (I personally like iTunes). And, I'm not completely certain, but iTunes may convert the music files to m4p before transferring them to your iPod, but if you're managing your file manually, the ones on your computer should remain mp3s.

There is a setting in the iTunes Preferences to do this:

Edit>Preferences>Advanced:

Uncheck the "Keep iTunes Music Folder Organized" and "Copy file to iTunes..." options.

Tim

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Yea, but keeping the music as mp3 on the computer is part I hate. I have 130g ipod video and a 60g hard drive. So I don't want to store mp3's on the computer, but I don't want to lose them. MY last mp3 player was a true mp3 player I could store the mp3 on the device and was able to play them too with no need to convert anything.

Now with the icrap I have to convert the files to an icrap format for the player to play them, and also store the files on the icrap as mp3's. In a nutshell I have every song loaded twice, once as mp3 and once as the icrap format, takes up twice as much space, but lets me keep the computer pretty clean of mp3's.

I would like just to drag and drop my mp3 into a player and it just works, like my Creative zeen use to, or like my N800 does.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

All 200Gb of my music is mp3. It's all been encoded with iTunes. The files are stored on the pod as whatever it was on the computer, so if it was a mp3 on the computer, it's a mp3 on the pod.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Amen!

Just because of this the iPod nano I got as gift is collecting dust... I use the N800 instead. Also, I have big collection of movies that are encoded in divx or xvid... those play fine on N800 using Mplayer, but for the iFlop would require format conversion... Too much hassle.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Well my ipod video isn't collection dust, it's just not my main player anymore. Instead it's being used as very expensive external hard drive. IMHO is all it's good for.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

I haven't used itunes to sync my 4th gen ipod in years, but when I did use it, it kept all of my files as mp3s. By default, it rips CDs into AAC format, but you could change that to mp3 as well (I just use audiograbber). There was an option for it to "organize" your library which you DO NOT want to do, since it changes file names and directory structure.

I've been using Winamp to manage my ipod for the last couple of years now. It comes with a built in ipod/mp3 player plug in, and you use the Media Library screen to sync and copy music. It also lets you copy songs both ways (to the ipod, or from the ipod to your pc) which itunes didn't let you do. Just install winamp, run it, then plug in your ipod and it will ask if its an mp3 player you want to sync.

another option is a program called ephpod, which has a pretty good user interface to sync your ipod, and none of the bloat that comes with iTunes (which I also hate btw).

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Man, this market space still feels so immature to me. This morning I was trying to get some of my son's WMA songs (from walmart.com via gift card) to either my N810 or E62-- no go. Neither device will play them. And the file management fiascos mentioned here are another gripe of my own.

IMO the ultimate solution is web-based media storage of ANY format that can be downloaded/streamed to ANY player at ANY time with NO unreasonable restrictions-- EASILY. Whoever creates that will rule the world.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

I think you're kind of missing the point to why I don't like ifop.

Say, I'm at work which will not let us install media software and want to listen to music. It would be nice if I could plug in the ipod and have windows open it as an external drvie and just start playing mp3. Sometime my ifop's battery would die and would want to do just that. Instead what I see is folders of files supported by no standard media player like "windows media player". To add to that the ifop will not play while plug into the computer.

Now, Wouldn't have been so much nicer it apple would stuck with a standard format so that there's no need for iTunes or any other 3-party program to load and unload music?

Everyother mp3 player...plays mp3's why not the ipod?

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

The reason could be DRM: I also "won" 20 songs (WMA format) in a credit card "raffle", downloaded them to my PC, and tried to transfer to the N800, didn't play. Only after I removed the DRM infection from the files they played fine on N800. I hate that DRM crap! :mad:

Try this if it helps... ;)

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Yes... except that Apple has a vested interest in iTunes.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Sweet! Worked perfectly. I am now jamming to Lifehouse's "The Joke", and it actually sounds damn good on the N810! Rock on!

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

The iPod totally plays MP3s. I have MP3s purchased from AudioLunchbox, Bleep, eMusic and AmazonMP3, both variable and fixed from 128 to 320kbps, that transfer without any conversion or transcoding occuring.

You must have some transcoding setting turned on. Look for it. It may be the checkbox on the overview tab when your player is mounted in iTunes, depending on your iPod model (the nanos and shuffles have options to convert to 128 AAC to save storage space).

Back to the tablets: It's actually pretty cool that the N800 can play the iTunes Plus (non-DRM) tracks, since they're 320kbps AAC -- the N95 can't (it can only do 256 or less).

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

I don't think so. You import mp3 into ipod using iTunes or some 3 party app.

Try this.
Download a song and using iTunes load it on to the ipod, then delete the mp3 off your computer. Now, try getting that song back on to your computer by copying it off your ipod.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

My experience with the Apple thumb-keyboard was the exact opposite. Plus, the way they have it laid out leaves a tiny text/screen area, and no option for swapping between full screen keyboard and full screen text.

Last, the fact that it doesn't work with an external bluetooth keyboard were the nail in the coffin for me on the text input front.

I agree about other areas in which Hildon could be better for finger friendliness, like inertial finger scrolling, making things easier on the zoom in/zoom out front, and making the UI more usable with finger clicking... but not on the text input front. Maemo/Hildon is far superior to Apple in this area, IMO.

The only thing I would really like to see Maemo/Hildon add is "spell check as you type" as a universal input service (so all apps can use it directly in their text input widgets). That's the one thing Apple's devices have right for text input, and they inherited it from their desktop OS.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

I would agree and actually was a little suprised that the Apple implementation hasn't had more critics. (Although I guess I'm really never in those forums.)

After a couple days with it my mother (who received a Touch for xmas) actually asked me if she could buy a stylus for it to make some things easier (hitting web links without pinch-zooming all the time, using the keypad, and just generally not leaving fingerprints all over the screen). You can't use "just any" stylus with it so I found one today that will work, the Pogo. Of course it's $25. A bargain Apple land. :D

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Like I said, you DON'T need iTunes. use winamp or ephpod.


I still don't understand, it DOES play mp3s. My iPod has been playing thousands of mp3s.


I've had my hard drive crash, and lost over 3500 mp3s. I bought a new hard drive and used winamp to copy 3500+ MP3s from my ipod back to my computer.

there are a ton of other programs that do this, (like winamp or ephpod) just do a google search.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

You know, a lot of the comments here are starting to sound like the comments over at /. . Some ***** is suing Apple because the iPod doesn't play WMV. They say Apple has a monopoly on the music download industry. They're saying the iPod only plays "proprietary" music files. I'm thinking most of the people making comments here and there have never even used an iPod.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

I've been biting my tongue while reading these 3 pages. I find it ironic that Internet Tablet users, of all people, complain about workarounds. :confused:

I completely agree. Most all the complaints I've read on this thread on ipods have a solution. Go to ilounge.com for answers.

I'm in the ipod touch/iphone-keyboard-sucks camp. First thing i say when someone asks what I think of the iphone: "Keyboard sucks."

Cavaet#1: I own an 160 ipod classic (my third ipod - NEVER had anything but mp3's on them).

Cavaet#2: I use high-res monitor laptops (1920x1200 17" and 1680x1050 15") so I can be accurate with a mouse pointer and I don't have fat fingers. I can't type for shid on an iphone.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

I stand corrected, I would like to say I was wrong.

The ipod does store music as mp3's, however when putting the music on the ipod itune renames the files to some weird file name making it almost impossible to locate your mp3 going through windows explorer. Kid Rock-Cowboy.mp3 becomes ZPAZ.mp3 and gets buried deep in hidden directories in the ipod. Yet I found an answer for that as well, you can within windows explorer set up columns with the song titles, and set windows to make hidden folders visible and find you mp3 that way.

I did not know this until this post so thank you for correcting me. You all were right, I was worng.

With that said IMHO I just don't like the way the ipod handles music, I still like my Creative Zeen , and N800 better then the ipod. I really like the fact that with both the zeen and n800 I can just drag and drop song using windows explore and I'm done. No itune, winamp, or other 3-party software needed, just a quick drag and drop.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Yeah... it's like suing Microsoft over browser bullying!

:rolleyes:

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

ebe51, it takes a lot to stand up and admit that you were wrong or really just misinformed in this case. I am familiar with the way the ipod stores music on the device, making direct browsing of files difficult. I think it has something to do with the way the device catalogs songs by the ID3 tags instead of filenames. Like you said there is a work-around for this. But you might want to give one of the other 3rd party programs a try (like ephpod or winamp), and then just get rid of iTunes all together!

I didn't mean for this to turn into an apple or ipod bashing thread, but rather just post up my experience with the GUI on the ipod touch which I think is very good overall for a small device.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

I have been watching this thread for a bit, and will now share my prespective :
i have been firmly in the 'anything but ipod' category for about three years now. i bought one of the 5g ones after pondering it for a while and for me it was amazing that you couldn't rename a song on the device, nor could you delete one. No, itunes for that. i simply couldnt get over that. so i got rid of it and never looked back.
well, sort of.
there is no doubt about it, apple is genius when it comes to design. i watched and secretly pondered, all the while wondering why i could not bring myself to 'like' apple products, and i think i know why; they aren't 'gadgets' in that sence of a word, they are appliances. not meant to be fiddled with. i think that is alot of why i didn't like them. i love my 770 (on it now btw) but i must say i have been eyeing the touch, not to replace the IT but to compliment it, i dont like to drain my battery on the 770 (or n810 when i get one next weekend) when i want to listen to some music. ( also considering the samsung P2 for its a2dp )
in short, i wish i could just consider the touch like i do any other device, but being that it is an apple it seems to refuse that consideration
-ezra hilyer

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

From a different perspective - today a coworker had their teenage son at the office with a new iTouch, loaded up with the many, many hacks that are out there to run non-Apple apps on the thing. Everyone who saw it was amazed at the amount of third party stuff going on and the "coolness" factor of the whole thing. Such as games that interact with the tilt angle of the iTouch. I could never get people that excited about my N800. The fluid screen interaction is far more impressive than the clunkiness of the Nokia zoom & scroll. Granted, the comparisons of what you will actually do with the iTouch vs. the IT might be apples & oranges. There was general agreement that the lack of memory slots was a big downer for the touch.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Very different indeed. Does it have the ability to select text, or copy & paste text yet? I remember that was one of the big downfalls of the iPhone.

Things like that are not immediately obvious if people focus on the games with the tilting ball thingamajigs. :D

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Yeah. Apples and Oranges. I don't need a pocket games machine (might be nice, but it's not what I need). I don't need a pocket mp3 player (I had one, an iPod, and never used it). I need a connectivity device ... not just web, but email, IM, and ssh (and preferably vnc). With keyboard support that lets me have a close to full txt window for ssh (the NIT's xterm can get _close_ to 80x24, when in full screen with no tool bars, etc.).

The Touch just can't do those things right now.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

I've had 3 iPods - an original [1], a mini [2], and a video[3]. All run MP3 happy as anything. I use the current one daily for when I'm walking or riding powered or unpowered 2 wheelers, and occasionally if I'm in a car to connect to the car's FM.

For a bit the current one was loaned to my father who was in hospital, and I used the N800 as an MP3 player.

I was so happy to have the ipod back! for me the biggie was control of volume and stop/start/nextsong/lastsong by fingertip without having to look. Also the bookmarking of podcasts and spokenword MP3s (my main listening is stuff recorded from BBC7 and Radio4 and podcasts). Those mean a non-touch iPod is far far better than the Nokia for my purposes.

And a Touch would be horrible except for the bookmarking :)

On the other hand, video via mplayer on the N800 is much nicer than the iPod. (I wouldn't have bothered with a video if I could have found an 8gb Mini to replace the dear departed. But I couldn't at the time)

So the N800 is used for ebooks and movies and messing about with python and some web browsing and a few other odds and sods, the iPod is the music player of choice.

I would rather like Ogg, but I'm happy enough with MP3. Plus the combination of iRecord (to record BBC), iTunes (on the mac, I don't do MSWindows), and the iPod is a real killer and so far no open source solution has come close to the ease of use and power.

I fiddled a bit with mplayer before buying the 2nd hand ipod and 2nd hand imac, but at the time there was nothing to beat the Apple combo. And still isn't really.

Zebee


[1] got a bit dodgy in the disk and USB department, finally passed on to a 13yo who loves it.

[2] died in an unfortunate freeway incident involving a not-properly-zipped motorcycle jacket pocket

[3] still in daily use.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

Unsurprisingly. I can't believe that you ever tried to replace a classic iPod with a Nokia tablet when the differences as a dedicated MP3 device are so very obvious (first and foremost the iPod's ample storage capacity, secondly the iPod being somewhat more pocketable, thirdly the iPod having longer battery life when used for MP3 playing only).

My 30gb iPod Photo sits side by side with my 770, and it understands that it is in no way related to the other device.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

See above: "loaned to my father who was in hospital". He had more need of it than I, so I made do with the N800.

I figure the N800 does well as an Mp3 player, the iPod is just way better.

Zebee

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

I earlier bought a Nano clone, The Best Buy Insignia, because it has an actual, physical control wheel, like the earlier iPods.

I thought Apple had the control-wheel design more-or-less locked up in patents and was surprised to see a cheaper competitor use one. I think this kind of tactile, intuitive feedback beats a touchscreen for quick & sightless control.

Unlike the iPod touch-pad wheels, it also has raised lines on it for added grip and response. The slippery Nano wheels kind'a frustrate my thumb!

But...
Unlike a iPod touch-pad wheel, I'm not betting on the physical wheel to last as long (kind'a moot, considering how quickly outdated MP3 players become).

While the Insignia has a much quicker interface and rudimentary EQ, what it doesn't have is the richer sound of my N800. Heck, it doesn't sound as good or loud as my old budget-brick Classic XP3 did - (w/ the cheesiest interface in the world) I think it's a size trade-off, as the iTouch also sounds better than the little Nanos.

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

For as down as I am on the iPod family (don't make use of the iPod I have, don't want an iPod Touch because I don't find it to be an acceptable replacement for my NIT), it's not because I think it's an inferior MP3 player. In fact, I think the iPod family (in its physical wheel, or virtual wheel, forms) is about as close to a perfect MP3 player as you can get. (not sure about the Touch on that one ... I haven't used it enough to know how it does as an MP3 player, but either way, the older iPods were just about perfect in their simplicity and optimized experience)

Specialized devices should be expected to be better at their task than a general device. I don't expect the NIT to ever be a better camera than an actual camera. I don't expect the NIT to be a better MP3 player than a dedicated MP3 player.

My reason for not being excited about older iPods is: I don't need a dedicated MP3 player.

My reason for not being up on the Touch is: what I need is something like an UMPC or MID, and the Touch is rather inferior in this capacity, right now. The official SDK might change that, by bringing in an application ecosystem which adds the missing functionality. But, for now, when it comes to the device I need, the Touch just doesn't compare to the N800/N810. I don't need a media player, I need a connectivity and communication device. Even the iPhone is missing a few key pieces that keep it from being a good candidate for me (but, again, the SDK might change that ... then it would just be that I don't want to deal with AT&T, and it doesn't have physical keyboard options (built in, nor external)).

Re: spent some time with an ipod Touch this weekend
 

I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet, but anybody looking for a alternative to the on-board software on an IPOD should look at ROCKBOX.ORG, which is basically open source community created software.

It was created to run on a number of audio devices giving them relatively equal capabilities. There are customizations of the software for individual devices (such as some video capability on the iPods) but that is not its stated goal.

That being said, there are some capabilties in the rockbox software that may be very important to people (unlimited bookmarks, games, great search database, lots of codec support, very cool skins, etc). Everybody on this forum should check it out.

Oh yeah, you decide whether to boot the Rockbox or the Apple firmware. Cool.