"The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

I received an initial favorable response from some members concerning this topic and was asked by one to start a fresh thread.
When attempting to help a confused (many believed new user) I did realize that any new person walking in to the devices and platforms forums here really does have to dig for answers, solutions, and info.... . . I know hunting down topics here aren't just word sensitive...but seem to be concept sensitive....type the same question two different ways and you can get a lot of diff. found searches...so not only do you have to know what you are looking for...but you have to query it a specific way.
Not easy for the new. But the purpose for people coming here isn't just to chat...and if there are fewer people using the platforms and devices who are around to help....then the purpose of the forum is 4-fold disasterous

1-Nobody is left around who is informed enough to help.

2-The forums are a very thick mess of imp. and casual talk...not making it easy to find stuff for the new person on their own. Let alone people who ARE familiar with it.

3-Those who are here not only are trying to explain concept and process but have to play safari guide through the overgrown forum jungles here...sometimes resulting in confusion and an increase in tension that doesn't need to be.

4-And that can lead to not only poor tempers...but new people who may have become valuable members ...leaving...and subsequently good current members being soured and likewise leaving.


I do know full well that the issues that brought me to start this thread...will only continue...regardless of whether or not we get "persons of interest" like Buffalo again or the situation that developed. This is an endemic issue. The next new person could start out being really nice and enthusiastic about being here and learning.... and very possibly shortly leave.... confused, upset and angry....mainly due to the clutter.

Can we do something here?
Lets throw around some ideas ...take the best one(s) and start doing something about it.

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Very long post.. Well it deserves to be as its really a mess to find information on tmo:(

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

That's why many of us use our wiki user page instead of our browser fav bar to gather info, so that it can be useful to others too.

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Yes the wiki is great. But I do see that we need more than that. Is the interface for this place perfect, adequate or terrible....and for whom? New people are more than simply confused when they get here. Especially when they are coming from a completely different operating system mindset. I am positive that what sounds perfectly fine for us sounds like martian to new users. And that doesn't help. I honestly believe that someone coming here and figuring things out at least for the n8x0 should get a diploma for getting through it.....either that or session with a good therapist and at worst walk away damaged and needing anger-management classes.
I am not the only person to have had probs that didn't need to happen with helping new users.There are tons of similar threads and posts dealing with the self-same issues.
We definitely need at least the simplest walk-me-by-the-hand tutorial that makes sense to a non-maemo user. Especially when no one is around at the time to help them. A proper vid or something...anything easier. Take a good long hard look at all of Buffalo's interactions and you can see the prob quite plainly. I eventually found him and helped...but wow...it doesn't need to be this way.
In part the issue does stem from the fact the devices themselves are a hacker's delight and as a consequence ...official nokia manuals don't cover what is needed.
Hence the absolute necessity of the info inside the forums to learn and get done what is needed. And the forums here are a snarly mess with snippets of important info. snagged up in miles of posts...in some cases for one topic alone...that can take DAYS to go through.

If members here ever feel that everything appears fine ...why bother? I can tell you that is always the time to be most concerned.
I know this is no mole-hill disguised as a mountain...it is a mountain.
And if the mindset is that "Everything works, it's fine ...there is no problem because I (either went through being in newbie-hell and now understand and don't want to remember or ....I have no prob with Linux to begin with or....... my I.Q. is so high I read calculus and algebraic journals at the breakfast table while trying to wake up in the morning) get it....I have no problem...therefore others should get it." There is REALLY a big problem here. I honestly believe that someone coming here fresh and new should find a concise learning method that makes sense FOR THEM.
If aliens came down right now ...and wanted to learn the maemo platform ..and walked into the forum ...it wouldn't be long before they would be walking out talking of how best to euthanize our species.

Come on guys...are you giving me the "I'm Alright Jack..." line? Is that our new party line? If so then there really is little point to the thread here....right? I mean ..there is no problem.....everything is just...."fine" ...is that the way of it?

No, Jack, I'm not fine, I would also like to see full color manuals on how to install u-boot for nitroid, nemo and fremantle, but I understand nobody is getting paid to write docs, so I'm willing to search. And by the time I learn what's the recommended way of doing something, it changes. By stating the problem, it's not gonna be solved. If you'd like to help, you can start contributing to the wiki, and maybe other people will follow. If not, we will still have marginally better documentation.

You can still announce your initiative here and call for help but it's one thing to go "I'm gonna work on documentation, come and help me" and another to say "documentation is crap, and you should do something or else community will die"

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Even I fully support your initiative here, I have to agree here with qwazix.
Of course the forum is full of threads pointing you here and there. But at the end you will find the answer.
This forum/platform is made by 'us', not by a big company (never was, just paid a few fees). So everything is voluntary. In free time.


I thought more to direct this into a 'we all may try to give better shorter answers and a final book where all is explained'? No!
Impossible. Show me any forum doing this.

And for me the buffalo fiasco was more like:
”Hey I asked YOU something and I needed to read and do something on my own”.

TBC...

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Did I say that?...no ...I don't think so..at no point did say " ...YOU should do something.." I said lets talk about the issue...and " WE should do something" ..a big difference....so point that finger elsewhere please. The "... but it's one thing to go "I'm gonna work on documentation, come and help me" and another to say "documentation is crap, and you should do something or else community will die" line should be patented...I have seen it before in other threads...a fairly pat response.
If there wasn't enough input or help coming...I wasn't about to try a herculean effort on my own that would take forever....if there was no interest in helping would have been answer enough. I also understand that solutions change...that is a given. That is part of the difficulty and challenge with proposing this.

Also..I did state...at the least we need something for the total newbie..( I said nothing about colour manuals......not a how to boot other os's or multiboot for that matter.....that.it does illuminate one of my points though....you speak about what YOU need... not what a new person needs....an absolute newb isn't even ready for that yet )....and then take it from there and hopefully work up to the bigger task of sorting valuable data...for a concise how to for more advanced topics ..
Unnecessary defensive behavior I don't have time for ..so taking this personally is wasted on me....but it does illuminate
Subsequently.. I do thank you for your clarification.
I'm done

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Since I was asked to comment on this thread here is what I think:

• The OP really needs to learn to keep things short and simple
• The wiki is a very useful tool to do such things
• As a mod I do try my best to keep my sections clean. I would appreciate it if people, when reading a thread find a solution somewhere in the thread, and the solution not in the OP to report for mods to edit the OP linking to the solution
• Nothing is stopping people from doing nice wiki pages like this for the N900. Such wiki pages would help new users greatly.

(Re-)Classifying threads is a very time-consuming task that would not be too helpful as a google search may always lead back to old redundant threads. Instead wiki is much more flexible and useful in this matter.

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

@endsormeans

Can you imagine that some see the problem to be the other way around?

But let me be optimistic here, as your best case scenario would be to educate:

Esoteric geeks to swear less and use less complicated words to make a point or explain the solution to a problem.

Silly users to stop "rm -f" everything they can put their hands on, because they read it somewhere... RTFM, it's Linux, dammit. Also, teach them to eat with a fork, rather than demanding to be spoon fed all the time.

Seriously, the Linux world is largely comprised of people who are autodidacts, who have plenty of curiosity, coupled with an eagerness to learn and who prefer to deal with trouble in a self-reliant way. You don't really expect these nerds to become like Apple Geniuses,do you?

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Yes, this is a good approach, thedead.
But also relies -as always- again heavily on user base/actions.

Yep, exactly.
A first step could be to provide your (endsormeans) link collection in a wiki page (again endsormeans).

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

I didn't start this thread to defend a position.....that just muddies the water.
I got the answers to my questions from a democratically elected spokesperson
...and that being said won't waste further energy or time defending my words ...that are pretty clear ...and transparent
The answer is.... we have the wiki........ergo ...continuing this topic is simply consuming forum space

I am responding to your question here specifically because this is a social/philosophical query posed to me...other than that as I said....
I'm done.

I completely understand and sympathize with what you're saying...but put simply...we are now the caretakers here...not a corp. . How we conduct ourselves ...especially with the spoon-fed is important. At one point we all had to be spoon-fed...diaper changed....taught how to speak...learn how to behave. What child wants ridicule...swearing and scorn when trying to do better? That is all out abuse.

Now we know better... because we learned. If you had teachers in a school that behaved thus the teachers in question would be out of a job ...possible court action. I know we aren't employees and this isn't our job....but if we are here to help new people...treating full grown adults...hell STATING to full grown adults that they are spoonfed, swear at them and demean them won't encourage them to stay ...and they will probably tell others which doesn't project a good ideal....When we lose one new member thus....we potentially lose scads more.

Blaming them for their ignorance ...blaming the corps for spoon feeding them ms and apple....none are to blame here really....The speed at which all civilization is going at....is to blame.......the need ....the demand...for simple devices ...simple operating systems is proof positive of the problem. If we intend on being the solution then we must be good physicians and help the lame walk and blind see. Up to a point I was patient with Buffalo...until it was past bearable. My view is when a sick patient is on the operating table...they will not be thinking straight...they need help...fix them up....they may yell and scream at you while you are helping...but who wouldn't?...You are the doctor...yelling back won't help...do what you can...and once they are cured ....if they are still yelling...give them time to recover....and then tell them they are an ***. :D

Better yet refer them to the wiki

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

OK, now, in no more than 3 lines of text - what the hell this thread is about?

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Ironically, it appears to be "getting information to new users is hard." :)

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90040 which resulted in...
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90060 which led to this thread you are reading but culminates in deleting all superfluous posts such as http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90179 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90250 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...29#post1345829 leaving the problem remaining.
sorry this isn't 3 lines...perhaps there is a solution in the wiki

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Note to OP: Substitute "a buffalo" for "an Agent" in the quote below.

"A little piece of advice. You see an Agent, you do what we do -- run."

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

use google search and you will find the right TMO stuff...

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

We would never have anything in the oss world with that approach. You start and maybe others come in aid.

Yeah, I was speaking absolutely about what *I* need, as I was responding to your accusing me of giving you the "I'm fine Jack" line. Don't twist my words please.

And yet how many "absolute newbs" do you expect to go around and start buying used N810's and for what reason? I expect that most of the people who in 2013 search and purchase NIT's either had one before, or have researched and know that this device does something for them that makes it a better value than some current hardware. You said it yourself, the NIT's being hacker's domain don't have everything needed in the manuals. Whoever buys a such a device should be at least willing to search for info.

In the end, what is exactly the problem you want to solve? Writing a guide for new people isn't that a herculean effort, and searching for simple problems mostly works

https://www.google.com/search?q=maem...roblem%20gmail
https://www.google.com/search?q=install+apkenv+on+n900
https://www.google.com/search?q=install+diablo+turbo
https://www.google.gr/search?q=new+N900+user

okay, maybe somebody might have to read the whole thread for some things under development (modest problem for example) but this is soon to be fixed with the next CSSU update.

all those simple queries display the response in the first result. The whole internet is a dump of info without any categorization, and finding info on it is much easier than any categorized catalog ever conceived. Trying to categorize a conversational medium like a forum is an exercise in futility. It might very well be that we categorize something where we feel it's relevant and the other guy tries to find it somewhere else.

The wiki is the place for concise information, and whoever wants to codify any info should edit that. Now if you think that reading thread by thread and creating wiki pages with the gist of them will help, by all means start doing it, and if there's a list of threads that need summarizing and I have read them, I'll sure help, time permitting.

I apologize if my post was read as a dump of negativity, but the OP as it was before the edit, sounded only like a big rant.

EDIT: Your edits to your posts are pathetic. You didn't like that some people didn't want to jump cheering on your "initiative" and started destroying info as revenge? Nice.

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

It was no big rant...It wasn't a rant at all.......as far as editing goes...I did a fabulous cleaning of all my overly long explanatory posts....leaving only pertinent posts.

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

why out reasons????? The wiki is the solution for now to find basic stuff and bing it to find more:)

Man are you alright?

I just don't think the forums need any categorizing, why take it so personally?

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

and why the hell quote and answer own post? :(
Now THAT is one of the reasons why I for one tend to ignore tmo - way too low S/N ratio.
I'm out too.

a PS to qwazix' post: google queries like
http://www.google.com/search?q=new+N...talk.maemo.org
(restricting search to tmo site) yield even sharper results, depending on what you're looking for.
And a personal remark: I don't agree too much with "the perfect N900" wikipage

/j

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

I'm upset ......I did have my part in it.....and ...qwazix I apologize .. I wasn't intentionally set on trying to rile you up...with the "Jack" business... .....and no I wasn't ok.....I did take some of what you said personally .... as personally you did......hell....more........

.and ordinarily wouldn't quote and answer my own quote....I needed the night just to calm down and get some sleep....and this morning the imp. reason here is my apology to you qwazix

I am upset by the whole buffalo issue....it was enough just keeping my cool and try to help the guy....I have never ever felt like that...The more I helped the more I just wanted to light him on fire.
He isn't an excuse or a reason for my poor behavior ....but it got the ball rolling.
But that isn't an apology....
this is..... I am sorry for upsetting you Qwazix .

Bloody hell. Well. having said all that ...there is one last crappy post.... of me simply upset with another person....truly crappy behavior.....a useless post and if ever there was something to delete....it's a good thing to delete here I think.

.Next.. over the next bit ... fix the mess I made of my posts.

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Dude, if you're going to delete something, how about deleting about two hundred of your useless "...". Okay, make it three hundred.

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

every tmo user can delete own posts - just FYI if you haven't noticed yet.

/j

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Don't delete posts, please. It's annoying. For users in general, but certainly if you administer a big forum like this. Also, you may see your posts as useless, but it's very well possible someone learns something from it.

Lift up your chin, take it for what it's worth and don't let it bring you down. And if you really want to be sad and cry, there's always Daperl's new thread on not selling his or her N900. ;)

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90626

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Endsormeans, I apologize that I didn't read your full posts. But one possible approach to the issue of extracting info from tmo would be to create Q&A pages in the wiki with a common problem or question at the top and brief (again, I say, brief) snippets of answers from tmo with links back to the full quote. If people don't like how you or others do it, they can change it.

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Firstly I do wish to expressly thank everyone who gave me a slap upside the head, kick in the butt, sympathized, argued, agreed, made me see red as well as laugh all at once.
Next, while going to reinsert the throw-together folder (I poorly named upon reflection) the master codex, I realized that it was sorely lacking, but may contain the seed of promise. I ref. the post to here and am now throwing this onto the table with some ideas from you all attached in this post for what could be done with it.
Now the n770 folder is empty excepting the categorized subfolders, as well the n900 folder is scant and not very current.
Due mainly to the fact that it has been a long time since I've used my n770 and I have had my n900 for only 2 years now at best and only lately mess with it more than I used to or these folders would be full as well. The n8x0 folders have a bit in them and am sure I missed stuff.
So as it is it can simply be chucked at a new person or whoever. They download it, extract it, toss it in their favourites/browser bar for quick ref. , even for quick multiple opened browser cross-referencing of pertinent forum posts.
Instead of unintentional misdirection or digging everywhere for answers to a single or intertwined topic we can hand anyone this. For humungous threads that have many important edu. posts inside subfolders are there for them.
The best way to expand on this is if everybody who (even just recently stumbled upon) or has or knows of where there is looked-over, hidden, forgotten or buried questions/answers/ideas/projects (whether they succeeded or not, because once aired with easy access may have people interested in attempting different solutions now to problems that couldn't be solved then) (and it doesn't necessarily have to be from the forum, for example, there is a folder of "other websites" with interesting info from outside the site pertaining to the operating system and devices here) posts the link(s) in one locale with a category (and sub category if needed) name it would fit in, I or anyone else (for that matter) can give em a quick once over...pop them in the corresponding folder...if it already exists, state we got it. Add more different category folders as needed
Everyone benefits immediately. I for one am insatiably curious and I know there is tons of stuff out there I would love to read/study/test/try if only I knew where/what it was.

So up for vivisection is something that can have potential.
1- As it is we can simply hand it to anyone, especially new people and say " Trial-by-fire...READ IT ...It's as layman as it gets! " and honestly I am fine with that.
2-(If a completely separate thread is made with the sole purpose of simply putting up links and a brief statement of the category it is believed it should go into) We can add to it, we can pack it to the rafters and still it wouldn't be a bad quick ref. and exploratory reservoir. (I don't mind adding all the new links once every few days/ or week/ or month depending on how heavy they come in) and upload the revised folder ( people delete their old folder, download and toss up the new in their browser bar) correspondingly, eventually the links will trickle in.
3-If community is truly as curious as we believe then this could be an opportunity. With quick multi-opened browser cross ref. then in a few weeks/months/or a year (depending upon response and the amount of info) creating something comprehensive in the wiki with a decent simple interface like what was suggested could be doable and adding or updating sections when members found they needed updating/revising a piece of cake.
Whatever ideas could be integrated into this to make it better should be thrown around, if the consensus is that it won't fly or there is a better idea(s) then that's more than ok with me too...if I can pitch in however I can great, I am happy to.

Heck better still.... add to it if you can or wish to, upload your zipped version I'll download it and add all the additions to mine and reupload the revised version with all the new additions bingo!. If EVERONE has a copy of this in their browser bar and while they are looking through maemo.org run and into something good then bookmark it in the category it should be in...saves me the trouble and makes revisions fast.

Here is the folder, a couple of broken links don't work (nokia's I believe) other than that this works

P.S. - I am terribly sorry for the post length, this was as concise as I could get it.
endsormeans

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

endsormeans,
Why don't you apply to be a forum moderator for the n800 sub-forum? That way you could fix threads you think need fixing i.e. linking solutions back to OP and/or merging duplicate threads?

As things stand, there are very few active users of the n8x line of devices hence it's easier if someone who is actively using one of those devices to moderate that sub-forum.

Note: Above is my sole opinion and may not represent the forum administrator's view.

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

good idea the dead .:) and why just 8x sec ? Let 900 sec to be moderated then at least we would have some threads consolidated with good information:) step up endsormeans its time?)

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Honestly I have had a nit in my hands every day (no lie) for the last 5 years (I know it's at least five...hard to remember when I didn't have one to hand everywhere I went...huh! would that make me some kind of nit-junkie?) , I was always here reading, and studying and trying and testing stuff concerning the os's and the programs and all the good juicy stuff.
I think I have some good ideas (whether they work , physically work and work well... inside the mechanics of the structure here is another matter)
I think I have some decent tweaks and improvements...and a few "alakazaam's" so to speak to pull out of my hat.
But the finer niceties and protocols of the functions, mechanisms,cogs and gears of the forums, garage, wiki and well ....how this place "works" I didn't study. There are lots of people who would know how to do the job a thousand times better than I. I'm not saying this to deny responsibility or false modesty. There must be thousands here who know how to do the job! ...where I wouldn't even know where to start.
Not to mention after you guys having to deal with the likes of buffalo and worse and people having meltdowns as a result ...like me...I'm not sure whether the job you have is a blessing or a punishment :D . I am glad you guys are here though... or it would be a ruinous mess.
So especially after my fission moment I think I would think (and for good reason) I would be the least fit on the list of candidates
And I am certainly humbled by the thought anyone here would even consider it. All I can think to say is I thank you for that.

I still believe that the wiki is the place for it, but if you choose to work on the browser bookmark folder (does the browser brand matter?) why don't you upload it to a git repo, gitorious, github, or garage. It would be much easier contributing to it than binary attachments on tmo.

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

I admit (after thinking about it) that looking at how this can efficiently be done here without adding additional mess and awkwardness to the forum would be difficult if not downright impossible. As well the file size (won't end up too big but) will definitely end up becoming a prob to upload here. The garage is probably best.. As far as it working in other browser brands it should it is essentially just folders and subfolders with links inside, though I haven't tested on many. Tried to keep it as simple as possible to restrict compat. issues. I do think there is some potential here. Using members that dog-ear (bookmark) pages while looking/hunting through TMO ( I'm sure I'm not the only one ) turns us all into a "Human Search Engine" . Much better at filtering and discerning than any computer at present.
But I'm sure my idea has it's unknown issues yet to be considered.

I think that though " Master Codex" sounded cool for a title...perhaps not for this.

A better title is " THE EVERYMAN'S LA(Z)YMAN'S BROWSER-BAR BUNDLE " heh :D

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

the buffalo made an impression !

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Well. submitted (my 1st project, hope I didn't muck it up) to garage.

Re: "The Buffalo Fiasco" Intiative (wow... that sounds cooler than I intended)
 

Tried to approve it but probably somebody else been even faster. Anticipate problems with full functionality of the garage project, since we face & fight bugs in maemo.org internal processes, so we might need to establish stuff manually that originally should get done by scripts etc.
please ping me or merlin1991 on IRC or send a mail to him and me, if any problems show up (no RTFM problems please!)

/j