Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Hi peops,

So the jPad is coming in a few months it seems, and I really would like to prepare something to use it as graphic tablet with my computer. Think Wacom but with a Jolla ;-)

I already have a similar setup with my iPad, but I'll ditch it once I receive my jPad. Now the question is, how will I be able to use my gorgeous stylus to draw on my computer ?

I ask to people who would like to create something like this to work with me, if any.

I'm mainly a graphic designer (UI/UX too), with scarce knowledge in Qt (still learning, can make UI though). However I can also help with getting the desktop servers ready, with research, architecture and testing.

I know a lot of the devs here are already busy on other projects, but if anyone is interested in this, it would really be awesome.

Of course, as is the custom, I'd like all this work to be open source for the community to profit and enhance.

Anyone ?

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Stop usuing that jpad name its too deciving .

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

I would defently like to see that but I fear the jPad will not be suited for advanced accessory or basic connecfions like 3G. I would also like a stylus . best solution would be built in. but I guess the won't happen. Lets hope its possible to use any stylus in the future.

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

jPad = Jolla Tablet in your mind? Really?

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

like this: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_oD_lqNHes8 ??

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

I think it's a typo and he meant iPad.
AFAIK iPads don't have wacom digitizers, so using it for that purpose would be close to useless, as capacitive displays are not precise.

Still, not sure why he's asking about solutions for Apple products on TMO and what does iPad have to do with Jolla he's also mentioning...

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Why do people continue to use the terms jphone and jpad ?!??

I mean what if there was a one-click hardware that could cut out large chunks of websites and compress them for archiving. Some sort of Internet Zone Zipper.

If Jolla were selling a thumbdrive with such capabilities, would you guys really call it "jizz" ?

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

yes, but it should work on any app/screen.

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

http://image.dhgate.com/albu_3536944...children-2.jpg
https://7inchjpadtablet.files.wordpr...fied_light.jpg
http://www.flashfly.net/wp/wp-conten.../05/xsMlKr.jpg
http://www.bigplazaa.com/storage/con...1586312691.jpg
http://www.pretorianuk.com/images/st...uct/j-pad1.jpg
so, which one is it that we are talking about?

or maybe Dave just likes so much a Journal of Pakistan association of Dermatologists. Or The Journal of Prevention of Alzheimer's Disease.

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Well sorry guys, I thought the term was in use here and that it would be quicker to write. Anyway, it's sad to see that the only thing you manage to say about my proposition is that "jPad" is a bad name. Ok I understood, no need to be so close minded. I mean, who cares? Come on.

Anyway, back on the subject, it would be like the youtube video posted earlier, except that the writings/drawing reflect on a computer screen. It's meant for artists and maybe those who want to write down some hand written notes with schematic and all.

If the Jolla Tablet get the same screen as the iPad (which I read somewhere) using a BT stylus with it will work just fine. I regularly draw on mine with and Adonit Touch and it can be quite precise, all the more with a "zoom" feature.

I like this name ^^ But again, english is not my native language so maybe it relates to something that english people find odd...

Why not ? It's quicker to write...

Ok, sorry for that. I didn't realize.

But the majority of tablets out there have not been designed to be used with stylus either, so what's the problem ? If the screen is descent enough, and that some program allow to connect a BT stylus to it, so it will not be different than using one on iPad or I don't know Galaxy Tab or the like... Sorry for the references (maybe you don't like me talking about big companies and all) but majority of "stylus artists" use a tablet made by those firms.

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

I have no problem with other community members opinions. In fact I love differences. What you call Jolla, what you think about jolla, how you use Jolla is non of my business. Just sail on and don't care what other people say. ( as long as you don't go to personal attacks OFC ;) )

Correct. But before I used devices With keyboards, now i love the note series for both phones and tablets since qwerty sliders are extinct. IT gives you extra functionality for free and gives the product something uniqie compare with the rest. I want jolla to go their own way and just not do something that others have released a million times. A nice cool integration with style would be just that.

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

You are right. In fact, I think you are not open-minded enough. From now on, I will refer to the Jolla tablet as "früdürstöm strümör".

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

You see ? I don't know what it means but I love that name :-)

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

I, from now on, will call it the 'iPad'. So regarding your answer above, even if the iPad does not differ from the iPad, my point is still valid. The iPad does have a capacitive screen, just like the iPad, so the usability for precise drawing is IMHO close to zero.

On a related note, why did you buy an iPad when you already have an iPad?


PS: I hope you like my name as well ;)

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

BTW, back to topic, this looks rather promising:

Source code at:

https://gitorious.org/gato/finesketc...043e87ea688e5d

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Yeah, I realized to late that jPad was so close to iPad. The storm had already fallen upon me ;-)

And as I already told you, it works with an iPad. Did you even try ???

Yeah, I hear you. I really feel that Jolla should go their own course, too. I posted this thread here on Maemo because I think though that Jolla cannot do anything really relevant given the state of the tablet project. So I believe that given what we have we can still create something in that direction software wise.

Thanks MarinK, it's already one piece of the puzzle. I should get in touch with the dev.

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Haha, it's just a joke.

Edit: to add, I think the biggest reason no one likes saying 'jPad' is because that would mean implicitly comparing the tablet with one of fruity brand's offerings. If you say 'jPad', you're essentially saying 'it's a fruity brand tablet but made by a different company. As I think you can see, calling something 'that, but made by another company' always makes it sound like a cheap knockoff. In fact, as someone else already pointed out earlier in this thread, these cheap knockoffs aren't even hypothetical.

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Yeah I figured (although two users are on the thin line ;-) ).

Mmmh, I didn't think so far I must say ^^ But you got a good point. I'm sorry then.

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

On the topic of capacitive displays being imprecise. Yes they definitely are, compared to resistive. However when using a tablet as a tablet, a down-to-a-pixel precision is probably not that important. In the worst case, you can always use the zoom.

BTW, tablets have always used a capacitive sensor, although admittedly with a connected pen.

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

no,no,no... i know he mean this:
http://www.judgepads.com/oldjpad/dive/JPADCloseup.JPG


by the way...
Jolla Tablet ..... jPad? i dont read ANY Pad in the Jolla Tablet!
please stop call the phone and tablet as jphone, jpad!

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Seems to be common theme for all JPads in this thread to lack stylus and 3G. Jolla tablet fits right in. What is that last wireless judge pad aka JPad...Some kind of a Scanner?

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

dont know dave, maybe a wireless calculator ? :D

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Yes. Could be. I need a calc since it's a bug in windows calc can't be trusted. It can't get correct sum for 10*10+10*10 :D

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Yeah, guess I've just been too much alienated since I didn't connect the dots when I wrote it :/

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

If I understand correctly, the OP mean some kind of BLUETOOTH CONNECTED stylus, that measures press sensitivity, thus ignoring one of the major drawbacks of capacitive screens (lack of pressure sensitivity measuring).

So, in conclusion, it makes crappy capacitive screens of marginally useful consuming-oriented devices, likeJpad Jolla Tablet or iPad, into something more suited for creating stuff.

As pichlo pointed out, drawing tablets (PC peripheral devices) were always using capacitive touch zone detection + styluses connected with cable/wireless to measure pressure sensitivity. So, in setup proposed by OP, we replace cable with bluetooth, and use the *pad as a peripheral device (drawing tablet) capacitive detection zone. Sounds doable.

The above is meant to clear the zillion confusions that appeared in this thread (or at least I hope so). By the way, all of this BT pens stuff wouldn't be needed, if Jolla wouldn't decide to do their tablet a device so similar to iPad (which makes the term Jpad not as unjustified as some are trying to insist), and opt on using resistive screen instead, which is both precise and can measure pressure sensitivity natively with *any* stylus, including the ones custom made for drawing (like CreativeTone uses in famous thread). Of course, N900 can do it for AGES.

/Estel

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Now correct me if I am wrong here, but I think there are several different kinds of resistive-feedback-type touch screens.

I have been told that the type used in N900 is one of the good ones, that it is precise, does not need much force and is good to look at (clear, not easily scratched, good transparency)

I only have experience on the other kind of touchscreens, like one I had in my 5230; it was very imprecise, you had to press very hard for it to register, it was opaque like muddy water and scratched easily to boot :mad:

Now, today as every manufacturer uses only capacitive screens, do you think that the better-quality-resistive screens are even available any longer? And even if they are, I'd hazard a guess you cannot get them in the size/shape that'd fit the Jolla tablet :(
Bear in mind that Jolla cannot go very far with customizing the device, not at that price point; they really have to select from components already available on the manufacturer.

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

And let's cover also this angle before somebody gets there, also jTab is taken:
http://i.tabletmaniak.pl/2011/08/jtab-1-medium.jpg

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Thought stylus was the subject of this thread. And not a innocent nickname used rarely every now and then. But hey, it's just me.

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

@juiceme, my last smartphone before the N900 was Palm Treo 600. I would argue that its resistive touchscreen was even better than the N900's. Pity it did not have WiFi, otherwise I would have never switched. My introduction to WiFi enabled mobile devices was a cheap 7" Android tablet bought on eBay straight from China. Also with a very good resistive touchscreen. Shame the rest of it was total cr@p and it almost put me off mobile computing until I found the N900.

The former device was made in 2004, the latter in 2012. I would find it hard to believe Jolla could not find good 7-8" resistive touchscreens if they tried. I think the key is the "tried" bit.

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

@juiceme
You are right about quality of resistive screens.
Then ones of 5230, N97 et al were so bad (and at all Nokia came so late into the game of touch with symbian) they made me almost leave Nokia behind and switch again to another brand.
But fortunately the N900 came and all was forgiven (until Elop :().

Check out yours and you will recognize immediately!
(just a hint: if you are going to use the stylus a lot put a screen protector on, a good one, 5€ upwards, Brando Ultra Clear)

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

That's exactly what I mean by the Treo's screen being better. I used with a stylus and without a protector for 8 years and there was not a scratch on it.

I had a few touchscreen devices before and since, of course. All my Palm devices had excellent touchscreens. The only bad resistive touchscreen I had was on a Samsung phone. That screen in combination with the Bada OS made me get rid of it in just a week. Before that, it would never even have occurred to me that a touchscreen could even be bad. The things one takes for granted... ;)

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Resistive touch screens are all good and well, but how are you going to zoom in on your photos in the Gallery, or on a webpage in the browser, or really do anything that requires using more than one finger at a time? You could put buttons in there to zoom in/out, but then why are you using Sailfish? Are there any (readily available) resistive touch screens that can handle multitouch input well, or at all?

I can find this (admittedly I've only quickly scanned the first pages of results), but that seems to be about it. It's also six years old.

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

That stylus already works on any screen. The program on that video (finesketch) only does pressure sensitivity and eraser/stylus detection, which are the two features that need program support either way. I made a patched build of "Paint" from the Jolla Store too so it's somewhat easy to "plug" those feature in any application.

Its precision leaves a lot to be desired, meaning it's most probably useless for drawing. On the other side it is (almost) good enough for simple note taking.

I think something could be done to improve the precision. For example the Adonit stylus currently has one accelerometer only. If it had two (or a gyro) you could measure the stylus tilt, which would be a good way to improve the precision.

In general the quality of those stylus depends a lot on the touchscreen you use them with. For example the Adonit Jot Script works OK on iPad/iTouch/NokiaN9, somewhat decent on the Jolla, but absolutely horrible on the HP Touchpad, where it fails to detect most taps and drawing a straight line is almost impossible.

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

@ javispedro : I was trying to reach you on twitter lately. I don't know how much time you get for finesketch and gato, but I'm willing to help you if you need. As my first post pointed out, I'd like to allow your system to be used as tablet to draw on a computer screen. Obviously I don't own a Jolla Tablet for now, but anyway we can still discuss things to be done etc…

I can send you my email in a PM if you want ...

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

AAARRRGGHHH!!!

<Rant Mode> It's true, zooming photos or web-pages requires more than one finger! Why? Because Steve Jobs said that it does. Therefore, it is a natural law, followed by all of humanity without question.

Wow, it was such a burden back in the days before capacitive screens, when all us poor computer users had to break out our magnifying glasses in order to view small pictures or read tiny text. I mean, we had all sorts of ways of interacting with our computers, such as clicking buttons, moving pointers, pressing keys, and touching screens, but _none_ of these were of any use at all! No, we had to use TWO FINGERS in order to zoom, and since we weren't using any input devices that recognized TWO FINGERS, nobody ever zoomed anything. Ever. </Rant Mode>

Sorry, this just really makes me tear my hair out every time I hear it...

Re: Use jPad as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Finesketch is just a quick demo of what can be done using Gato; I do not plan to develop it further at the moment. Making a full fledged note taking program is way too much UI work for my liking...

I'm a stylus fan though so I would be interested in such a program if someone does it. :)

The part where you translate the touchscreen inputs in the Jolla to a computer screen is not trivial, but it is straightforward.

The problem is the stylus. Specially if you want a "fine tip" stylus like the one on my video.

First and foremost -- a "fine tip" capacitive stylus's never going to be as precise as a true drawing tablet. Estel is right, the technology so far cannot compete with a good resistive or active/magnetic screen. You will see curves being "straightened", missing segments, and other glitches, specially when starting/ending strokes.

If you're looking for a "cheap wacom/cintiq" then my suggestion is to look elsewhere since you will be _severely_ disappointed with capacitive screens (e.g. jPad, iPad, even the Tegra Note; only NTrig seems to have been able to workaround issues with capacitive, and it seems that's because they use some kind of optical sensing technobabble).

I see that you've used an iPad as "drawing tablet". Which stylus did you use? Where those OK for you?

Second -- how good a capacitive stylus works on the "jPad" depends on how sensitive the touchscreen it uses is. Example.
And the only way I know to check that is to... try it.
Maybe some sailor with a jPad proto can check that for us (or, I can take my Adonit Jot Script to FOSDEM...).
Cause if the sensitivity is not enough, then there's not much one can do. You will have to do with the usual "fat tip" stylus...

On some touchscreens you can actually adjust the sensitivity. But even if it's possible, I don't know how

Assuming the capacitive stylus part works, then you only need Bluetooth for e.g. pressure sensitivity, and to distinguish between finger presses and stylus touches (but this is entirely optional).
In the Adonit, Bluetooth is also used to fix an offset that appears when you tilt the stylus.

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

I think it's because anybody who has tried it finds it natural and easy. Sure you could trace a spiral in/out like on the N900 or hit +/- buttons with a pen but it's by far one of the most natural and obvious gestures.

Also, haven't we solved the capacitive v resistive thing already. Capacitive won. No more having to hit weeny buttons with your fingernail because you've lost your pen.

For those of you who want to use pens but still have decent multitouch gestures, there's hybrid screens that layer a Wacom panel under the capacitive layer like the Galaxy Note. These are infinitely better than resistive in day to day use.

I don't see why the N900 screen gets glowing reviews either. Of the two I had, they regularly went out of calibration, scratched easily and had awful viewing angles. Even my SE P910i had a better screen.

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

I could not have said it better! ;)

Besides, as the Neo900 project has found, dual touch is possible on resistive screens with the right controller.

Also, there is nothing in Salifish except pinch to zoom that requires multitouch. All the swipe gestures are just as easily achievable with single-touch resistive screens. Admittedly the Jolla screen supports a 5-finger touch but the only case when one may need more than two fingers is for applications like a piano. As far as I know, no such application exists (yet).

It is only "natural" once you know about it. When I was first handed an iPhone with a map on it, I scratched my head and asked, "how do I zoom in?" Without having been shown, it would never have occurred to me to try two fingers. Maybe it's just me.

VHS also won against Beta and Video 2000. Does that make it better?

That's strange. Out of the four N900s in my posession, none has ever required screen calibration.

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

Did you even read literally the next sentence I wrote?

"You could put buttons in there to zoom in/out, but then why are you using Sailfish?"

Besides, as I said, there are other things than that pinch-to-zoom stuff that you would use multitouch for. Holding the Shift key on the keyboard, for example.

Re: Use [strikeout]jPad[/strikeout] Jolla Tablet as a graphic tablet with stylus
 

I wouldn't call it an obvious gesture, but it's definitely a lot nicer to use, and more precise than pressing some tiny +/- buttons that can only jump in preset increments.