Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

welllll....
I don't feel that the neo is actually responsible for the cyclic state..
It is just how the entirety of the situation has evolved ..with the project continuing so long with no definitive end in sight still.
And some may feel like (with the Jolla/youyota issue..) they refuse to be tricked again...and...well..I don't quite see..or rather I try not to see the bigger picture that way...I don't think of it as being "tricked" .
There was/is no forethought of ill intent at all by any project proclaimed in the forum..
But it is disheartening...
Even with os/device (partial) successes..everything is looking rosy and good...and then..instead of continuing refining and making better of so much work...
The os/device is abandoned by its creators for the next shiny thing that happens by.
THAT really is seriously disheartening and demoralizing..
especially after end user support, investment, and slowly or quickly beginning to wrap one's daily routine around a new learning curve...
then having the floor drop out from underneath oneself..
Not fun.
If anything would drive a soul to a walled garden...like android or iphone ...it is that.

And I concur ..what is in the offering today is not the standard the n900 set.
the future will tell whether the neo ...succeeding or failing .. has positive impacts that outweigh all the given negative ones that are accruing..
So far ..it isn't an overwhelming positive I see.
I see many including myself who are tired investors ...staring down a bottomless well of in-completion with no set timetable for finishing.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Actually...
Come to think of it...
Brings back real great and ugly memories...simultaneously ...
You mentioned Mer ..Kabouik....
Now it is just a layer ...
Good for marketing...
Once though...
Long long time ago...
It was something different....
It was an open alternative to maemo ..
Running on the n800 and n810...
Before the team back then decided that they could not go any further with it (mainly due to the closed bits that Nokia could not release ...)
Anddddd...
Left it to pursue other endeavors ..
But they did do a pretty fantastic job with what they could.
I still use the old Mer...
Love it ...
(Well hell...I love running Diablo turbo, KDE, Debian, Windowmaker, and E ...not to mention all the others ....on my n8x0's....)

Great and sad at the same time ...it is...
Outdated options are still fun ones to use and explore....
And is still better than having zero options...

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Why can't they get a fund from European union or another government within Europe to make this a success.
Same goes for Jolla.

Something in the lines of but not necessarily https://www.slashgear.com/symbian-sp...more-02111791/
or have we given up on independence (Europe) and competition (World wide)

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

the state of linux or any other alt ..in the mobile department ..just isn't ready for primetime to go toe to toe against android and iphone..

In fact ..it may never be ...
It may always be behind the eight ball...
IF linux and alt mobile plays by the rule book and follows behind iphone and android..

The only way they have a chance to succeed and establish themselves ....is to come up with the "next big thing" that everyone cannot do without...
Thus changing the rule book that android and iphone use...

Otherwise...no government...no institution .. is going to throw money at such a project...
(I know jolla is being picked up by Russia...but how far they can run with it?...how much money must be thrown at it?..and how much can be integrated into societal daily life? ...are the big questions...
why compete and try to reinvent the wheel ?...when the alternative infra already exists ready to implement and deploy with apple and android? )

as so many have said already...
the functioning apps that are rapidly being and in deployment in society to do the most innocuous seeming and mundane things ..are in the hands of android and iphone...
in fact..
I think it was Kabouik who just recently mentioned he had no choice but to pay for his parking with his android phone...(if memory serves..)
The big boy corps are brilliantly diffusing their power and reach throughout society...so...soon...if one wants to do / get / have / order / pay for....anything...one must have an android or iphone...
It is an insidious objective ...
preying on all levels of society's desire for convenience..
and thus cornering and closing the market to any challengers...

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Getting funds from the EU is connected with massive burocracy and strict accounting control. Imho it's not viable for a small project like Neo900.

About the poll: I'm still interested in the Neo900 but i can't vote with yes or no because i already payed the full price or what i assumed was the full price quite some time ago: ~900+ €.

The question is: Do i still need it? It would probably be a small upgrade to the N900 regarding the use cases web-browser and navigation. For all other things i use my N900 for, i don't really need an upgrade. And other features i would like to use (Whatsapp, mobile payment) are only possible with android/ios anyway.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Two things make me pessimistic:

1) Microsoft couldn't do it. Microsoft had the advantage of controlling the desktop, and still could not become a third mobile platform despite several attempts. You may feel that gnu/linux is clearly superior to Windoze, but that brings us to:

2) gnu/linux has never gained much market share on desktops or laptops. So why would anyone expect it to succeed in the handheld market?

Micro-projects either fail (neo900) or take too long (Pyra handheld). Micro laptops like the GPD Win won't function as a phone. The only route, I fear, is putting a GNU userland on top of an Android phone. I know that's far from perfect, especially in terms of privacy, but we're not going to get perfect.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I agree. Strict accounting control is the last thing the Neo900 team wants. They would have to actually show where the money has gone :p

But that is the whole point! Are you happy to write the blank cheque and wait, considering that you have no idea how much longer it will take and how much more it will cost?

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

EU regulations regarding funding can literally kill small businesses. You need professional accounting people to deal with it.
But that Neo900 funds management is suboptimal was obvious for a long time, remember that interest construct at the start of the funding period?

Yes, i was happy to write a blank cheque. That's what crowd funding is about imho. You take a risk and maybe get something that's worth your investment or you turn your money into smoke. I saw it as the best way of supporting this project at the time.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I just can't...
I just can't do it...
your arguments are sound...
the statements you make are sane...
but...

overshadowing everything..
I can't take anything you say seriously...
I just can't...
I can't help it...

it's your username ...man...
every single time I try to read your posts...
I just start with a suppressed chortling ...then it just erupts into giggling and then outright laughter..
Marshall Banana...
mmmhmm-mmmhahahahaahahaaaaa....
I'm sorry ...
can't help it..
it is just such a good choice for a username..
so good it is overwhelmingly distracting ...

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Ahh, but this was not crowdfunding. It may have changed to crowdfunding later, but it started off as preordering. Even now, the Neo900 website talks about "down payments to partially fund Neo900 devices".

Either way, I am not trying to influence your decision. Only to explain the poll question as you seemed to have some doubts whether you can answer it at all. I say yes and it seems you already know your answer too.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

English is not my first language, so i guess the difference between "down payment" and "crowdfunding" was not clear to me. But no matter how you call it, paying for something that doesn't exist (yet) has always the character of an investment.

The way the question is formulated: "pay the remaining cost, no matter what" , it could also mean pay 2k or even more for the Neo900. But i guess that's not what you meant, so i voted with yes now.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Actually, it is exactly what I meant. Since no one has committed to any specific release date or final price, it can balloon to literally anything. It can easily take decades and cost tens of thousands. Remember the price has doubled already and without warning.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

yup...
In fact ...lets summarize all the points.

(I don't think I have missed any..
If any can think of any more...
mention them please..
regardless of "for" or "against" ...and I will add them..)


1- refundable preorder to non-refundable quasi-donation

1a- and yes the price ballooned to double...expect it to not stop there due to ..

1b- the needed "donating individuals" to begin it being viable to produce were initially stated at around ~800. the last known figure which is dated now was current "donating individuals" standing... (which is severely dated was) ~350 "donating individuals".
Naturally include since that time some new investors who have joined that preorder list.
And a greater number who are balking at further investment or have abandoned the hope of any end product and moved on.
(valid reasons being 2, 2a, 2b, 2c, 3, 3a, 3b, 3c, and 3d )

1c- the schematics and other aspects perhaps may be transparent as the claim goes...but the finances are not. There is no transparency or and seemingly no accountability to investors..erm.."donating individuals" in this regard. I have no idea anymore than the next person here ..how much is left of our "donations" ..if anything...

2- timeline is SO grossly overdue already, decade or decades ...is not inconceivable.

2a- overdue timeline also means an already outdated end product (also refer to 3 )

2b- overdue timeline also means necessary components become obsolete and so new components must be sourced, which then must be tested for compatibility and so THAT circle spins round ..unto itself.

2c- due just to the aforementioned above 2a, 2b, alone ... numbers of previous investors will not invest further. the actual number is not relevant.
there WILL be people who have had enough.

3- due to the passage of time...
it shortly will not be the "special" and "unique" device it could once have been....had it been released timely. The window of time for the neo to take advantage of...has closed.

3a- Chen's work shortly to finish to what end...has yet to be seen...but qwerty keyboard options are coming shortly...

3b- Librem 5 will have ..I believe the same ability in privacy and kill functions for a secure device. so the neo's stated unique advantage is shortly to be deployed to customers in January.
perhaps the Librem 5 will have parts that are closed (I am not certain on this one...But I doubt that they would go to so much trouble in device security and not deal with that issue) ...whereas the unmade neo at this point is stating it will not have any compromising bits...
(Personally I have already thrown $530 CDN ...away ...on the neo...whereas I COULD ACTUALLY PREORDER AND GET a Librem 5 in January with specs that dwarf the neo ...for another $70
The neo is guesstimated at what again? Someone else say that figure....so it sinks in and they hear it with their own ears...from their own mouth...
and the neo isn't finished with that guesstimate ...
it has no ceiling in it's potential end cost .)

3c- advancements made by PM and UT are continuing ...inevitably they will be primetime and on devices manufactured and shipped long before the neo is HALF finished.

3d- Between Sailfish, PM, and UT working toward running other os's and their apps... and between the Leste project working on modernizing the maemo os ...and moving toward the same goal of operating on other devices INCLUDING the n900 and possibly the n8x0 even...which have resistive displays...

all of the aforementioned...combined...
means that there is no "special" aspect that isn't available elsewhere ..shortly......at a much more sane price.



Considering all the above (so far) stated points of issue...
I think at this point the answer to "why people wish to support any further and HOPE to get an unobtainium coated neo900 ?"
is an overwhelmingly simple matter,
of a differentiation between those who have at least a minimal grasp of reality,
and those who have a disassociation and disconnect with it.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Well, then 12 people are insane and i'm stupid.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

That's too harsh. I would use the phrase, "overly optimistic". The 12 (actually, now 13) just do not believe it would ever come to that.

As I admitted before, the poll has many holes in it and anyone can create a better one. For example, " how much longer are you willing to wait" or "how much more are you willing to pay", both with 10 or more options. But the best approach and the only one with any real significance would be if the Neo team asked that.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Marshall Banana sir....
(mhmhmhmahahaha....sorry...)
a disassociation and disconnect from reality does not infer either insanity or stupidity.
Hardly.
That would mean that as much as the twelve and yourself you voted yes so far ...I and virtually everyone who invested our money in this Neverending Story ...are likewise also insane and stupid.

To illustrate...
The project went from refundable preorders to non refundable donations...
By your rhetoric ...I and everyone else who did not get their money refunded during that changeover are by definition ... insane and stupid to have stuck it out past that pivotal moment.
The project then declared that end device cost doubled...
By the same rhetoric ...I and everyone else who still stuck it out and supported the project out of loyalty and belief ...are by the same definition insane and stupid .

No...no one is insane or stupid here..

It is an incremental issue...really...
as the temperature increases, it is about how much heat each frog can take, before jumping out of this pot of boiling water.

(the harsh contrasting reality of course is that real frogs do not jump out of an incrementally hotter and hotter pot of water... luckily people can...)

No one here is insane or stupid ...

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I am not as sure as you about this, it seems. Myself included in that sentiment, by the way.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I do think that the Neo-team did there best and tried to build something that most of us have been waiting for.

I would not wait for the delivery boy or do extra payments for the device. The Neo900 OS is perfect but the hardware is out of date by now.

People are happy there dumb phone's nowdays. Having pre-installed **** on a new smartphone is cool or standard nowdays.

An alien visitor would provide us a smartphone.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I completely agree with every word you've said jelly.

and don't mention aliens too loudly...
or Dave will hear...and we will never hear the end of it.
:D

(hmmm... is you're avatar a pic of a ufo ...jelly? when did you change to that? I don't remember you having that avatar? ...you don't know something about alien smartphones invading Earth do you?)

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Come on, endso, you can do better. Jellyroll's first language isn't English, what's your excuse? :D

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

argh !
yore right ! (:D)
Me's bad.
Thanks youse's Grammar Slammer Bammer !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN32WUgLhzw

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Obviously this poll and the discussion should be equally important if the question was: have you seen an Alien? Yes/No

And much more fun!

But the poll is not about aliens so it’s better to leave the aliens to another discussion and continue the discussion about what ever it’s about.

Luckily I was in the more sane NO vote ;)

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I did never changed my avatar or have been into ufologie either. People who have been adopted by aliens must have experienced some heavy lucid dreams. Listening there stories be like reading The Book of Enoch.
I don't exclude extraterresial life.

I tried to use an iPhone a few weeks ago and turned a little bit shocked soon afterward.
You can consider the N900 as alien technologie after comparing it with a iPhone.

I do understand that Dave doesn't like scammers but there's a difference between trying to scam people and fail to proceed.

I hope that the Purism Librem 5 project will succeed.

Pichlo is a hero.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

ah....
never noticed the avatar until now...


Yay Pichlo!
:D

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I put down a downpayment and unfortunately I have to vote no. Currently I would say yes but your "no matter what" statement made me change it to no. I only want it now because I'm missing my n900 and would love another Linux based phone with physical keyboard. I love this project, I love what it stood for, and I love the effort that jeorg and the team put in this, I have no I'll will for losing my full deposit as I can see progress was made and it was a chance I was willing to make. I wish the team all the best in be future and hope I will have an opportunity to buy the Neo900

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Sometimes I feel like this is just another beating ....

to a dead horse!

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Neigh!
I say...

https://media.giphy.com/media/Y2RLZ5XXYeK0o/giphy.gif

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Well, this is a forum dedicated to an entire stable of ‘dead horses’... take your pick.

Maemo, MeeGo, N900, NeoN900, Estel’s case, Jolla Tablet... I’m sure there’s a ton more.

I’m not ignoring Leste.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

hahahhaahaaa
the imagery...

actually I beg to differ...gerbick...

Jolla and the Neo ...(and until just recently the Estel case ...)
don't quite qualify as "dead horses"
since they seem to have a movement and life that defies ...

I think classifying these two as actual..."undead" horses is more apt...
since they don't wish to willingly "stay dead"

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...pBhQJdoe59p3UA

I am not sure lumping in Leste just yet is fair..
It is so new ...and hasn't had enough time for that category..
unless of course you aim for some kind of hybrid dead horse..
perhaps a fetal dead horse...
since the Leste horse has yet to be born yet..TO then expire as a dead horse...

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I can only assume that I was not clear enough. I meant simply that Leste is not a dead horse; I am not ignoring it meaning that despite its lineage, it is not dead unlike Maemo and MeeGo.

Estel's "case" was dead before it started. The Jolla Tablet has now twice found itself cancelled before mass deliveries.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Leste, Estel, hmm...

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

you thought of that too eh?
just blank it out! just blank it out!

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I do not think these two should be mentioned together in one post.

Probably you meant Letse (an deleted alias username of) Estel?

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

I can hardly agree more.

Not deleted, just banned. Maybe you could not find it because you missed one e.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

God...
the nightmare days!
(shudder)
You made me remember!

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Hi! I just heard Nokia is coming out with a new GNU/Linux phone that has a hwkb! The phone model is codenamed Steel!

EDIT:Just kidding here..

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

are you sure it is called "Steel"?

I was banking on it being called "Magnum"

https://digirepublic.files.wordpress...der-magnum.png

:D :D


I would like to see the source of this legendary rumor...
Since all I can find on the Nokia "Steel" is said named nokia smartwatch.

actually I can find no reference to a new nokia smartphone with a hardware keyboard that runs any flavor of linux..

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

It may still be top secret so I am unable to reveal my source however I hear it will be coming out soon!

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Well hopefully we hear about it soon...

Before the new "Aqua Vitae" is released...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYyganhWAAAlW-T.jpg


Well mscion....
If what you say is true....
It is about bloody time someone came back with a linux hwkb smartphone again...
Just wish that the track record of Nokia standing by the devices they output ..and their track record with us guyses ...weren't so wretched.
That kinda makes me a little gun shy...
Still....
they did stick by the maemo os's for a while...
and they did hand the reins of the os, and the bits and pieces..and the forum over to us...before every thing went ka-blooey ...
So with some cautious pragmatism...
and a modicum of hope...
Lets wait and see.

Re: Who is still interested in Neo900?
 

Absolutely! And, to avoid any confusion, it will have a hard case made from, you've guessed it, aluminium! Milled in a handmade milling machine with custom parts ordered from China.

You could even say... Letsee! :D