Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

If you find a good price for them online, post it here :-)

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Here you go: http://www.lindy.com/us/catalog/14/12/02d/index.php

For other countries, go to www.lindy.com.

Are we sure the mini-A will plug into the N800?

Unfortunately, I'm in Trinidad and no-one delivers here.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Check the previous posts for links. There are USB OTG mobile HD enclosures with their own power source on the market. With the right connector, it should be able to carry 100GB + with you on the road for a reasonable price. There are advantages and disadvantages to a USB OTG HD:

Pros:
1) Great for sharing info with other devices
2) Faster (in theory) than bluetooth
3) Readily available now
4) Tremendous storage potential.

Cons:
1) Not as convenient as bluetooth
2) Not nearly as convenient as internal memory
3) One extra device to carry around

If bluetooth drives are available, I'll likely choose this over the USB OTG. However, if they are too costly, then USB OTG will be my mass storage/backup/portable choice.


}:^)~
YARR!!

President Corrupt

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Yeah, on the bluetooth HD front, I'm still waiting to hear about availability of the Seagate DAVE and the Agere BluOnyx. Hopefully soon for both.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Me too.

I hope that these drives are solid state *and* know how to go to sleep to conserve battery life.

Convenience is the name of the game.


}:^)~
YARR!!

Diary of a Capt'n

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Since an iPod can function as a self-powered USB HDD formatted with FAT32, can it be used as an OTG storage device with the Nokia N800 and N810? This could make a N800 + iPod a great combination for archiving pictures from SD card while on the go. Also, if an app on the N8x0 could parse the iPod's bizarre native file structure, the N8x0 could be used as a bigger screen/speakers to watch MPEG4/H.264 videos that are stored on the iPod.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Any chance Nokia will support this:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/14/a...now-available/

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

The N810 uses Micro, not Mini-USB (see Wikipedia)
I googled a bit and cannot find anyone selling Micro-A cables or adapters. This may be because the Micro-USB standard is quite recent, and the N810 is likely the first device to offer host mode using said standard.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Lucky I didn't order them, then.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

This possibility can also apply to the Creative Vision:M and the n800/n810

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

This may have been mentioned already, but just to clarify...

USB OTG is intended for single device connection only. It can certainly work with a USB memory dongle, as long the Mass Storage Class drivers are implemented in the N810. For that matter, any other USB device should also work as long as there are drivers implemented (some examples are Communications Device Class and Human Interface Device Class).

It differs from USB Host in that it specifically does not support hubs, and thus multiple devices.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

The new Nokia N82 (released yesterday, available "now") has it, too.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Hang on. I was talking about the n800 at the time, which DOES use mini-USB cables.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Excuse the repetition from another thread: hubs are not supported, so I'm wondering if that means that devices combining multiple devices, like a kb combined with a mouse, won't work. Maybe also effects things like external hd that also has an integrated hub?

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

So, umm, what about linking that thread at least once? I already read two same comments by you, none has link to thread you are talking about.


As for hubs and other unsuported devices this is feature of linux kernel and is enabled in Nokia kernel. There is a white list of allowed USB devices, everything other is not allowed.

This can be turned off when compiling own kernel.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Sry for missing the link, here you go: <other thread here>

Thanks for the info re kernel option. I thought OTG specification/implementation might be partly hw specific, hence the question (please, don't bother pointing me to USB specs, already been through that pain a few years back). So assuming the white list is there for a reason what, if any, would be the impact of turning this option off?

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Umm, yes that is the first thread where you are talking about yet another thread. I was (and others may be too) interested in the original thread where you got the info from.

The reason is quoted in kernel description in my previous post. Impact is obviously that untested devices will be allowed :-)

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Hmmm, seems like you are determined to give me a hard time ;)

The current thread of course! Specifically post #51.

Never mind, I will seek the information elsewhere.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

This wikipedia page says:

I read this as meaning that a hub *can* be used *but* still only one device can be used at a time. Any USB OTG expert please chip in if I am wrong.

PS: I don't have time to trawl the USB specs. I suppose the average user will simply want to know if it is at all possible to connect multiple devices.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Oooops..... sorry :o
I have tunnel vision on the N810, at least until it is in my needy hands.

Yes, those cables from Lindy are indeed what you need. For something more versatile, you may want to check out this Gold-X Cable Kit. It has detachable connectors to create any standard USB cable possible (except, of course, the new Micro-USB). A bit of hackery will still be required to create the proper host cable for the N800, but it should be easier due to the Gold-X cable's design.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

The Sharp Zaurus C3xxx and C1000 palmtops had USB OTG capability. I successfully used USB keyboards & mice, external HDD & card readers and bluetooth, wifi & ethernet adapters with it. This leads me to believe that it is indeed only a matter of compiling a kernel with the right options. That and finding OTG Micro-A cables/adapters, compiling driver modules and providing sufficient power to devices. Simple, right? ;)

In other words, a special OTG or whitelisted device is not necessarily required to connect to an OTG host. The reason the USB developers group refers to whitelists and limited host capability is because the target is typically your media player with proprietary OS and limited resources. The TI OMAP processors used in the Nokia tablets provides both host & slave capability. The presence of the Micro-AB socket on the n810 means that it is dual-role, as it accepts both A and B plugs. The role an OTG device takes is dependent on what type of USB plug is used. Micro-A is host, Micro-B is slave. If both connected OTG devices have an AB socket, they may renegotiate the host & slave roles on the fly. This last bit is the true power and differentiator of the OTG specification. The rest is all standard USB, same as found on your desktop.

The presence of only a Mini-B socket on the N800 and 700 means they do not conform to USB standards. This may be the reason why Nokia could not provide official support for host mode on these models. However, the capability is still provided by the TI processor As already known, only a hacked cable and kernel support is needed to enable host mode.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

No
Oh I see. So you talk about different thread but you mean the very same thread just few posts above :-) Now that is perfectly clear "of course" :-) Nevermind.
I don't know what else to add except repeating information already provided. As already explained the white list is artificial limitation, if removed everything can be connected (including hubs) which is what OTG specification disallows, that's the only purpose why the list is there. Manufacturers are supposed to test everything allowed and disallow the rest so Nokia did precisely that. Once you disable the white list and recompile kernel anything untested by manufacturer can be connected including hubs and will work (if there is a driver).

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

LurkerN and fanoush, thanks for the info. Scratches head, so disabling the white list allows a hub to be connected, got it, but is OTG protocol/s (whatever) still active and, as suggested by the wikipedia info, only *one* device can be connected, even with a hub in between?

fanoush: re double posting, I could explain in excruciating detail how I/we arrived at this point. Suffice it to say that I made the mistake of double posting and compounded it, in retrospect, by the statement "Excuse the repetition from another thread:...", by which I meant that the statement following the ":" is literally (almost, for the pedants) repeated from another thread, which it was. You have read it slightly differently. Lets leave it at that before it becomes a big yawn for all :)

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

A well written, thoughtful, and insightful post. Good job!

The thought of using an inexpensive portable USB keyboard with a retractable cord
, is exciting. Wireless is nice, but not really necssary for this type of task. Plus, there is no need to charge batteries!


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Yes, well written but you forgot one thing. The Zaurus line had a 150mA limit on the current supplied through the USB port. That was for the official Sharp rom, but various roms could expand or remove that limit. If the Nokia N810 has an unpowered port then USB OTG would be pointless.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

The N800, and almost certainly the N810, use a powered port at or near 150mA.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

A USB hub does not allow the OTG host/slave negotiation protocol to pass. Thus, the roles are determined by the way in which an OTG device is connected to the hub. There are only two proper ways to connect to a hub, both of which are dictated by the type of cable used. Every hub has either one Mini or full-size B port for the host, and multiple A ports for the devices. A host cable cannot plug into an A port, and a slave cable cannot plug into the B port. The USB plugs & ports are keyed so that compliant cables & devices cannot be used in the wrong role. There are non-compliant cables and adapters out there, which IIRC can destroy a device and/or PC if used outside of the odd application for which they were created.

Yes, that explanation is confusing when I read it. It is the best I can do for now. But it makes sense if one examines a hub and its connections.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

This may help some of you get you head around way to power devices, it's a mod to use a Wireless USB dongle on a GP2x;
Using a battery pack and a USB Hub and magic;

http://wiki.gp2x.org/images/f/f8/Gp2x_couch_small.jpg

http://wiki.gp2x.org/images/2/21/Gp2x_worn_cropped.jpg



http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/WirelessUSBTutorial

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

You can leave the usb chip inside N800 (and 810) in OTG mode where it detects which cable you insert and it switches to correct mode automatically (client or host) and then perhaps can also negotiate mode switch with real OTG device. You can also force the chip to client (peripheral) or host mode if you don't have proper cable. See http://muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/ for details.

When you switch it to host mode, you can attach normal USB devices like keyboard and also powered hub and then attach more devices to it. I have tried with my N800 and it works. I expect it to be same with N810 since both the hardware and the software is same. N810 may have additional advantage of proper connector for attaching also real OTG devices but otherwise it is same and the manual mode should work too.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Here is a battery-powered hub which used 4x AAAs: link

However, for maximum portability I'd like to pair a small NIHM or Li-Ion/Polymer battery with this tiny USB hub: link (it is sold under many different brands at various retail stores). Even better would be if somehow a charger IC could be wired up to the battery and hub, communicating with the host via USB itself. The charger IC would ideally give charge/discharge status to the host, allowing it to unmount/disable/power down USB devices depending on battery status and usage. Unfortunately, I have no qualifications to take on this task. Anyone else? :)

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

So, I've been following this thread, but I'm still unsure where we stand. I've flashed my n800 to 2008, and want to replace my tired, old bluetooth keyboard with a roll-up usb keyboard. Is this possible? And without using xterm to change things every time?

I'm asuming that I'd need either a power injector or a powered hub, but will the n800/n810 support the keyboard then? I don't have a usb keyboard to try, and I'm too lazy/cheap to find one, build a power injector and hack a cable, to then find that it doesn't work (sorry).

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Ok, I'm in the same boat as pixelseventy2.

I may be blind, but I'm not sure where we're at.

The N800 only has a miniB port. It comes with (I think?) a MaleA - MiniB cable.

With OS800 on the N800, can I use the included cable to plug into a powered hub into which I have also plugged an USB keyboard? Do I then have to pull up a terminal and do the following?

echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode

According to http://muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/ this should put the N800 into USB-Host mode. Does this work?

If someone says, "yes" then I will ask the next question. Will a simple USB-A gender changer allow me to use the included cable with standard USB devices that have USB-A connectors?

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

bumpity-bump-bump

Has anyone tested OS2008 USB OTG yet?

Either on the N800 or the N810.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Mine appears to go into host mode when doing "echo host..", as far as I can tell (OS2008 on N800), but I didn't have drivers for any of the things I've plugged in, they were identified and powered, though.

Gender changer should be fine, provided you have drivers to support the devices, and the devices consume less than 100mA of current.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Yesterday I tried to connect a PS/2 keyboard with a PS/2 -> USB adapter, added ~5v from 4AA batteries and connected it to my N800 with OS2008 installed on it.

I don't have and drivers so I guess nothing should have happened, the onely thing that was noticeble was that when I onely had the batteries connected to the keyboard caps, num and scrollock was flashing and when I connected them to the N800 they stopped flashing and became lit when I used echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode num lock stayed lit and the other two was flashing. When I connected the same things on OS2007 some months ago it said usb connected but the tablet did not say anything this time.

I don't know if that said anything but if someone has some ideas as how to install drivers or other ways of testing, if it matters if you use a hub or just a cable ect. please share, I've been wanting this since I bought this device about half a year ago. Most of all I want to be able to connect a keyboard and bluetooth ones are to expensive for my taste plus I want to save the battery time.

We can use 4AA batteries to power a keyboard we could allso figure out how to make a small charger chip and add a power cable from it to the n800. My N800 battery is 1500 mAh and with 4AA's you get 4.8v and 2500-3000 mAh.

Would be greate when I'm traveling.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

I'm not sure, but I recall it being discussed that the N800 only has a Mini-B usb connector while the N810 has a micro-AB connector. The difference is that the N810 can act as a master or a slave when tethering it to other devices, where the N800 can only act as a slave. This is part of the N810's USB-OTG setup: it can connect directly with other USB devices without requiring a PC as an intermediary. The N800 requires the intermediary.

Your best bet would be to try this connection using a (powered?) USB HUB.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

See the USB Host Mode Experiment thread. With OS 2008 people are now using USB devices with their N800s. As for the N810, I suppose we are simply waiting for the first user to hack a Micro-B cable or obtain the proper adapter and report here. Myself, I will work on this within the next week or two.

I may have confused the issue with my previous postings (TMI). See muru.com for a an excellent explanation. OS 2008 has host mode compiled in, so the kernel patch bits do not apply to those users.
As noted, a hub may be used for multiple devices and is necessary to supply power above 100mA.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Unfortunately, it appears some devices (bus-powered HDD enclosures?) fail even with a powered hub. Perhaps, when trying to negotiate for more power, something goes wrong on account of OTG stuff.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

I don't think that can be it. I could be wrong, but I believe that USB doesn't do any "negotiation" for power. It's either there and it's enough to turn on the device, or it's not. If the device is powered and not being recognized, I'd say the problem lies elsewhere.

Re: USB 2.0 OTG on N810
 

Many USB HDDs require more than 500mA on startup, so a dual jack cable is usually used, plugged into a powered USB hub.