Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

anyone catch hereos on monday? that was some crazy ****!

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

hehehehehehehehehe hahahahahhaha hhehehehheeh

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Personally, I have a smartphone (Treo 700p), a Nokia n800 and an iPhone. When I use my gadgets in front of my friends, the iPhone impresses my friends far more than the n800. Especially the girls go gaga oover the iPhone, which I use only for music/video podcast and frankly the phone function is just ok (voice too low).

So if you are going to accuse someone "who don't get it", just to be sure that alot of people out there don't "get" the n800/n810 tablets. I need a tablet because I want a mini laptop replacement due to the nature of my job. However IMO most people don't need an internet tablet, therefore they don't get it.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

@earl00
But, notice that he qualified his original statement with:

This statement completely invalidates your argument. You see, you're not actually responding to his original argument, but to a different argument consisting of a made up premise and Texrat's conclusion.

When piecing together rational arguments its best to do it with a clear head and rational.


}:^)~
YARR!!

[ Capt'n Corrupt ]

Re: I?m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Okay let us not make this any more uglier.
what do you thinK are the shortcomings to what nokia promised???
Go ahead and make a list....we will try to make you as happy as we can ..

Re: I?m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Maybe it's as Wagner said...

I had to laugh :D

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

I'm cool if someone doesn't like a Nokia tablet, but I'd like them to have a valid reason for not liking a Nokia tablet.

This guy Wagner has reviewed the N810 with several unfounded preconceptions, and it shows - it's a crap review.

WTF? So now he's p1ssed because it's called a tablet yet it's small and dinky and not large and heavy? OK... good start.

He clearly wants it to *be* a cellular phone too, but it's not a cellular phone. It's not meant to be a cellular phone. Was he asleep when class were given this information? He then goes on to claim you need a smartphone for non-WiFi connections - ********, any PoS phone with Bluetooth will work. He really doesn't seem to be the smartest tool in the box, but he does sound as though he's got an agenda (pro Apple, or anti Nokia I'm not sure - but he's not neutral).

Ultimately the entire "review" is flawed by his preconceived ideas of what the Nokia tablet should be, and he's disappointed because it isn't what he was expecting. That's poor journalism - he's not reviewed this device and considered why it's designed the way it is and the possibilities it offers, he's only reviewed how it's isn't designed the way he thinks it should be.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

a bluetooth upgrade in size of an usb stick would be better.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

They will eventually add a cell phone... and that's just what others don't "get".

Any portable gadget should evolve into something that reduces the number of gadgets you carry around.

Cell phones are doing it... They have gotten quite good at playing, and storing personal music, picture, and videos. So good that it was beginning to erode sales of iPODS. Digital camera sales are eroding as well.

Apple had to fight back by developing a phone that plays personal music, picture, and videos at their standard (the level at which they have evolved), not a cell phones manufacureres...



...but that's it. Inclusion of a web browser was only so they could control how their web content was delivered and that's all. Other sites were secondary. In fact if you want your content to display correctly on their phone you have to reformat your site (YouTube).

Reformat a site for the needs of one manufacturers devices?
That's just the opposite of what HTML was all about.
That way stifles development and stunts evolution.

But that's also the way of most cell phone manufactures in the USA not just Apple. It is what the customer wants...
In the US the customer is not you or I... it's the cell carriers!
They want the same thing Apple wants... the means to charge you for what you see and hear using their product.

Because of this top down approach evolution will stop when they have accomplished that and can predict a rate of return on their investment.

Nokia's tablet philosophy seems to be from the bottom up. I hope the last thing they do is add a cell phone. (Pro'ly the easiest thing for a cell manufacturer to do; doncha think?) If it is truly a bottom up approach, that would mean that all other means of connectivity (free) have been explored and have evolved. :)

We are part of that evolution.

If you purchase enough things because of how they are marketed to you well, you are exactly the customer that Apple and US cell carriers are looking for and I doubt you will ever "get" alternative thinking.

Edit: (The "you" in the above statement is rhetorical and not aimed at anyone. sachin007's statement was only quoted to get my rant started... Peace :) )

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

You really don't understand at all the context of what I said, do you?

Ironic.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Now why would you follow up my long post with just one sentence of flame bait?

Boy, I feel dumb...

I didn't realize that continuing a flame war and adding no additional information to the topic at hand was the purpose of this thread...

I'll just be quiet now... :(

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

I'm terribly sorry YoDude. I didn't realize that baiting ME was the purpose of the thread. I'll bow to your superior wisdom and avoid asking further questions. :rolleyes:

EDIT: you do realize I wasn't addressing you... right?

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Oops... missed this one Hedgie, sorry.

I'm referring to promotional styles only.

Re: I?m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

You're so right! I'll never understand why people are so obsessed by the idea it "should be a phone". They all seem to assume potential tablet-owners dont have cell phones already and the big drawback is they need to buy 2 devices.

In real life, people do have cell phones already (most of the people I know have at least two). Putting all the phone stuff into the tablet wouldnt come for free: it would increase size and cost. I dont see any advantage in forcing people to buy yet another cell phone (because its built in) when all they want is an internet device.

Only if the tablet series one day will have 3, 4 or 5 up-to-date models (like the N800 and N810 now) that are sold with slightly different configurations I could imagine one of these models to include a phone; there might be customers who really happen to need a new phone at the same time they buy a tablet, so this would be for them.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Actually, I don't expect there to be different models. It would probably be more expensive to assemble different models, then to just include a cellphone capabilities in each model. If you don't want to use it as a cell-phone, then just do not insert a sim card.

I actually suspect that nokia didn't include cell capabilities in the tablets, because it would upset the carriers too much. Think about it, there are hardly any devices around which allow you to make VOIP calls and cell calls. In fact there are numerous cases when the carriers block the usage of skype and others on the phones. With the current tablets, anybody who owns it would still have to carry around a cell, so it won't upset anybody. If the VOIP/cell combination becomes more mature, then nokia will have one of the best devices around with the N900 and a mature platform (maemo).

I for one understand very well that people want it to be a phone as well, because why shouldn't it be a phone! Of course everybody has a cell, but if the N800 could make cell calls, I'd ditch my cell straight away. Probably only taking it with me when going out at night.

Re: I?m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

... and a lot of this has to do with the US market that ties cell phones to 2 year service contracts. Why buy a tablet that is tied to a carrier?

Leaving a cell phone out will allow a cell phone to be just a cell phone again. I would love a small form factor, rugged, water resistant phone with BT that seamlessly allows me to connect to a data network when I'm carrying a tablet, and is also small enough not to be intrusive when I'm not.

There are plenty of activities that do not require the features of the tablet (or a bulky smart phone) but would be safer, easier, more convenient if a cell phone was available.

BTW benny1967, thanks for continuing this discussion.

***

Speaking of small form factors...

>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/26/s...lphone-hybrid/

Maybe not a realistic solution but another example of alternative thinking...

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

There already are 2 models: N800 and N810.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Sure, they have different hardware, but the basis is the same (screen, wifi, processor, bluetooth). So what I meant was that if there were to be cell functionality integrated into the tablets one day, then it would probably be in all tablets, because it would most likely be a feature that is embedded in the basis. To manufacture ITs with different basic components would probably be too expensive.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Adding GPS or GSM components is likely to involve the same amount of effort by Nokia. Just my 2p.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

A Sprint WiMax version of n810 is coming very soon.

However I don't understand the rational of putting a cell radio in the tablet. I can turn on the eithering to my EVDO phone in 5-10 seconds. It takes longer to bootup the tablet then its to connect to your cellphone's internet.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

There are two factors that count against using a NIT as a cellphone - size and battery consumption.

Sure, you could use a Bluetooth headset to connect to the NIT so that you don't have to hold such a large device to the side of your head to make or take a call, but then that's another device (headset) you have to carry with you when you may as well carry a small phone.

The current battery will most likely crap out much sooner if you added a phone, or it will have to be made even larger to accomodate the new cellular functionality, making the device even more unwieldy as a phone. And shrinking the device to a phone form factor will mean it is no longer a NIT (ie. reduced screen size and/or resolution etc.).

In short, adding phone functionality may appear useful to some people but it will necessitate all sorts of other complications and compromises that I personally don't think are worthwhile.

My 2p. :)

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Hmm, just in case I may have come across wrongly: I would _hate_ it if Nokia introduced a GSM component in the tablets. Sure, I would not use it, but it would involve some wrangling with carriers and such... that would increase the price. Plus, I'd rather go to town with my stone age Nokia on a Saturday night than with the N800.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

the tablet wants to be a phone.

nokia won't let the tablet be a phone.

why? to preserve existing revenue streams (nokia sells phones) and to play nice with the FCC which is manipulated by mobile carrier monopolies - both are reasonable business motives. In this respect, Nokia is not fully committed to the tablet which will continue to be irrelevant against blackberries, iphones, and treos. (until wimax, maybe)

Why would i want to carry a phone and a tablet and a laptop? it's ridiculous.

I'm holding out on buying any tablets until Wimax or a working USB/bluetooth EV-DO data modem (not phone pairing) is a reality. Unfortunately Nokia's choice of un-powered OTG conveniently prevents the usage of USB EV-DO modems.

If Google becomes a player in the 700mhz spectrum, consumers may get a little more freedom. It would be nice to carry fewer gadgets and subscribe to fewer service plans.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

You wanting the tablet to be a phone is not the same thing as the tablet wanting to be a phone. If Nokia puts a cellular radio in a tablet, the expense will shoot up and battery life will shoot down. Neither of which are good things. I, personally, do not want to take my tablet everywhere. There are a lot of situations in which I'd much rather take my $50 phone with me than my $400 tablet, for convenience and safety (say, a party where the likelyhood of ending up in the pool is high, or a morning run where you'd rather not be carrying around dead weight).

I'm not a fan of holding giant bricks up to my face. I want a phone that does voice calling well and I want a tablet that does micro-laptop functions well. I don't want a phone/tablet that does neither well.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

so you'd carry a tablet instead of a phone that would be only a third in size, has much longer battery lifetime and is better suited for - well, making phone calls?

come on ...

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

n810 looks a lot like an iphone. it's pretending to be an iphone. it absolutely wants to be a phone. but the design(ers) are limited by business policy.

your arguments are stretched thin. It already has a powered wifi antenna. you're saying that adding a cell antenna is different? if so, then why is adding a wimax antenna ok?

do you also carry a $20 pager for those situations where a $50 phone is inappropriate?

yes. and so would 2 million iphone owners, apparently.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

the iPh0ne is still smaller than Nokias smallest IT; and its still much bigger than what I'd consider acceptable for a mobile (!) phone.

Knowing that a built-in phone would make a tablet even larger, I simply dont see how it could be useful.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

It's not. I don't want Wimax either.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

not by much. Many of the early N810 photos placed it next to or on top of an iphone, as if to say "look how similar they are". They are very similar in looks and in size.


come on. phones are tiny and 90% of the hardware is already there.

although it would help improve sales of the tablet, i personally don't care about cell phone functionality. i'd like to see working EV-DO or Wimax. I don't want a cell phone. I just want data and to make my calls over EV-DO or Wimax. I would not hold up the brick to my head. I'd use a bluetooth headset (quick! we must stop users from attaching bluetooth headsets! they might use the tablet as a phone!). I want to cancel my cell phone plan, toss my cell phone, and just subscribe to an unlimited data plan (like Sprint's). I'm a cheap bastard. Nokia and the providers anticipate consumer frugality and stunt this obvious and inevitable use case.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

ok, this is one of those bill gates 10k memory should be enough for everyone quotes. i'll remember this one. amazing.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

I already have a 3g bluetooth phone. I don't want to spend money on another service plan. VOIP over Wimax doesn't suit my needs, and a GSM modem in the ITs will just nuke battery life and drive up the costs (not to mention make it a lot harder to get to market and tie it to carrier contracts).

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

I don't want another anything either. i'd like to replace and simplify.

Right now the htc mogul with an unlimited sprint ev-do data plan, a working SIP client, and no voice plan is looking really good. But i HATE the idea of using Windows Mobile.

voip over 3g/wifi would work for me:
- sip > wifi > asterisk at home and office
- sip > 3g > asterisk elsewhere.

the tablet would eliminate my home sip phone and my cell phone.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Nokia is making a WiMax tablet becuase Sprint wants one and will sell it themselves, not because Nokia believe in the internet-equiped tablet future, mainly because nokia is a very Euro-centric company.

Plus, Sprint is going to push WiMax as an alternative to Cable (TWC, ComCast) or DSL (Verizon) boardband, not an alternative to EVDO or HSDAP mobile data. If I can share a single WiMax account on my 3 computers, I really don't mind replacing my cable modem with it.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

What do you expect from someone who can't even doublecheck their spelling before submitting their "blog" post?
M810? Never heard of it. Heard of the N810 though.
This is just some uninformed jackass basing everything off a full FIVE MINUTES of playing around with the N810 and then goes and posts a link to the "m810".
The phuctard was probably just filling space because it was on deadline.
Espcially when this phuctard complains that to use thedevice you HAVE to be connected over wi-fi or bluetooth.
Wrong.
Normal consumers don't read InformationWeak anyway, it's mostly for business folks and investors which definitely are NOT the target demographics Nokia is aiming for with their line of Internet Tablets.
They certainly don't need them anyway.
American press is always going to be biased towards "homegrown" consumer electronics which is why the Apple iPhone is getting such great reviews despite being truly crippled in regards to real functionality.
Remember when the Motorola RAZR first came out? Same thing. Nice looking phone but lacking in real features.
But because both devices were "Made in the USA" (as far as design and the company goes, not where it was manufactured) the American press lauded them both as "revolutionary when they really weren't, feature-wise.
The iPhone just introduced a new UI and the Motorola RAZR just proved that - as always - "thin is in".
COmpare both those phones to a large variety of Nokia products and you'll find them lacking.
But Nokia isn't a US company now, is it? Of course not. And since it doesn't have a REAL market presence here in the US then the mainstream media will ignore it or flame it.
But we all know that the people out there who "get" the internet tablet won't be swayed against buying one by some fat, balding, middle-aged hippie who doesn't know the difference between his *** and a hole in the ground.

And sometimes even the press folks who just months ago lauded the Apple iPhone (Walt Mossberg) turn against it's "feature" of being locked in to only one carrier - AT&T (again, Walt Mossberg).
The mainstream press may act like complete douchebags now but once the product they're bashing catches on they'll be backpedaling and flip-flopping worse than any politician (see John C. Dvorak).
I don't even bother reading reviews from the likes of CNet or Information Week (what do you expect from a "tech magazine" that gives away subscriptions?!?!? I call that one big printed infomercial) since they're usually biased.
I prefer to read reviews from folks who actually "get" and understand technology and what the device is intended to do and then some.
Only true geeks can write unbiased reviews when it comes to modern information technology.
I detest Microsoft Vista, XP is OK for my work as a network engineer, but Mac OS X is what I use at home.
I wouldn't wish IIS 6.0 on anyone for a public website, but IIS 6.0 + Sharepoint Services is perfect for a private in-house replacement for a file server in a MIcrosoft-based shop. Hate Cisco for anything but routers, love Foundry for everything but routers (OSPF in da house).
Best tool for the job and all.
I don't expect folks who went to college to get a journalism degree to write good reviews on information technology so when they are true to form and write a half-assed reviews like those.
And no one else in here should be angry about that. It's the nature of the beast.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Personally I just ignored his review. First thing that struck me was the fact that he used it for 5 min. (played with it seems more accurate). That aside he totally lost me when he described his iphone plan. 5000 sms and 200 visual vm? Really? Brainchild, its 200sms and unlimited vvm. If you don't overstand what you have, how can you grok something else. Proves to me that this is a person that just has no clue.
btw I am no nokia h8ter or apple fanboy. I carry both the iphone and a n800. Will likely buy the 810 for the gps. Hard to use the iphone on my ninja(touchscreen no work with leather gloves. neither have a gps...

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

:D:D:D

Of course, the people who are well informed will disregard this article altogether. However 99% of the people are pretty shallow when it comes interest in technology. Articles like this shouldn't offend anyone here, rather it should wake up everybody in Nokia's marketing dep. If I were the head of marketing the N810, I wouldn't have let people like Mitch walk away uninformed and unimpressed. Okay the N810 may be hard to grasp at first, but that means you have someone present at the display devices all the time to highlight all the great features. He didn't get his opinion at a random store, no it was at a nokia marketing event! That to me is just unbelievable.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

So just as a question what is the power consumption of a cell chip? I can't imagine it really affecting the performance of the IT (especially not if you could disable it), because it would probably be dwarfed by the power consumption of the screen and the wifi. In fact I guess that the bluetooth pairing with a phone would consume more power.

I would also guess that the cost of a cell chip is very very low. I'm no expert at this, but I do not think the cost and battery argument are really valid.

So a cell chip shouldn't bother anyone who isn't going to use it, but it will make a whole bunch of us very happy (and boost sales in the process). The only compelling reason I can see not to include a cell chip is that it doesn't fit in nokia's current strategy (either because of potential conflict with carriers, or because they see separate revenue streams).

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

IMO Nokia doesn't want to put a cellphone inside the tablet not because it was too expensive, but because they don't want these kind of (hilarious) websites to ever again.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Yes, it will bother those that don't use it. A. It costs money to put it in there, not only due to material and manufacturing costs, but also due to certification and testing costs (which are a whole lot more complicated than Wifi/Bluetooth) and B. In the US, if it has a cellular radio, you can pretty much guarantee that you'll have to go through a carrier to get it—carriers mean contracts, contracts mean more costs.

No thanks.

Re: I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!
 

Surely, even in the US it is possible to buy a prepaid sim card? You could buy your IT just as you bought it now, same price, no sim. Get yourself a sim card if you like, or not if you don't.

I'd even welcome an IT with a contract, because here in Europe it means a much much cheaper IT (read: free :D:D). People here in the forum always tend to include the costs of the contract with the price of the device, i.e. the iphone costs more than 2000 dollar. However they tend to forget that you do get unlimited data and a whole lot of calling minutes for that price as well.