Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Umm, some interesting job offers for Maemo:

http://maemo.org/news/jobs/view/1211880551.html

Cough, cough...

http://maemo.org/news/jobs/view/1211880838.html

Looks like OMAP3 :)

There is a browser job too, preferably with C/C++ experience, but that covers both Webkit and Mozilla, so no speculation in this one :)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

GeneralAntilles, All I'm saying is if they are going to build hardware and bundle software with it, it should be good quality. I will tinker with KDE and Debian on the N800. I like that. But these devices give Average Joe the impression that it is a IT with a PIM and camera, and the potential for at least a partial office suite. They give this impression by what software they bundles with it, which isn't any good.
I think the result is that they make the company look bad, and they make Linux in general look bad. Average Joe doesn't care about the potential of the device. They care that their contact app works how they expect it to. That expectation was built from years of using other PIM and contact apps. If Nokia wants to alter that expectation, they have to do it by being better, not worse. Same for everything else.
When Average Joe sees that the software sucks, he sees that the device sucks, Nokia sucks, the people who designed it sucks, and the developers who wrote all that junk software suck.
I am trying to encourage Nokia to not make the same mistake a 4th time. The fact that Nokia can put out such a joke 3 times and STILL have people salivating at their next attempt is a testament to the potential and value of the Nxxx series. Trouble is, the N900 may be their last chance to get it right, before the competition sees the value and beats them at their own game.
I just want them to release a product that doesn't suck in SO many ways. It cant suck as a PIM if there are no PIM functions....
:)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Some remotely relevant news:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=NjQ4Ng

MPX merged with X, hopefully we'll see that in one of the next releases :)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

This thread is long so don't know if this has been said but I'd love it if there were some kind of mouse wheel that could be used for scrolling web pages or adjusting the volume.

If there is one thing I find tough its scrolling web pages.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Hmmm, the Product Manager jobs look good. Too bad I can't relocate. : /

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Infrared LED to control my TV.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I spend a lot of time searching for wi-fi. I'd like the refresh cycle for the channel scan to be shorter so that the information is more up-to-date.

I'd recommend that Nokia find a new partner for GPS software and include navigation on all units out-of-the-box.

I'd like to be able to plug in other USB devices (camera, audio recorder) and mount their file systems so that I could upload assets to the internet.

I'd like the ambient light sensor moved somewhere else. When I'm holding it, my thumb frequently covers it. I know I could hold it different, but there just has to be a better place to mount the sensor.

It would be cool if the camera was supported by a wider variety of software. I'd encourage Nokia to invest in this area.

I'm very excited by Nokia's experiments with USB/Bluetooth video. Add external video and a faster processor and we're talking much less reason for having a laptop.

Dave Brightbill
http://www.tallycast.com

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I'm not 100% sure, but I think this is improved in Diablo; I haven't really done a comparison.
You can right now; you need an appropriate cable. If your cable does not short pins 4 and 5, you'll need to use a software tool; see the wiki. If you get a cable that does, then it switches automatically.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

As some on the definite 'drive buyer' consumer who really doesn't want to get into programming or futzing with Linux, here are some things I'd now be looking for in the next Nxxx:

1. I want 5 inches, baby! I don't care where the present buttons go, get rid of them, move the speakers somewhere else and, without changing the form dimensions (much?) changing give me as much screenspace as possible. For anyone using this thing for web browsing, you're likely to be spending a lot a lot a lot of time playing with the zoom and scrolling. Frankly, I'll be looking at the EEE pc (even the 7'' 4G which probably drop in price with the intro of the 900, 910 and 1000 (not to mention the other cheap ultraportables aout to hit the market).

2. give me decent PIM and syncing. Really. Seriously.

3. give me decent video streaming without having to convert or reconvert.

4. give me an operating system that allows resizing windows so I can effectively use more than one app at a time.

5. let me make my desktop personalized by allowing themes to be easily made and icons swapped and layout changes.

6. come with a decent sleeve ~ one that doesn't allow the N900 to easily slip out.

7. create a site that's geared to the non-Linux geeks who really don't want to deal with red pills, sudoanything or rousing discussions of different distributions. Something with good, clear, practical descriptions of apps and applets.

That's a start.

But, you know, I really think the N900 is going to lose a lot of potential buyers to the more robust ultraportables. Like, for instance, me. The N800 was a fun toy but for my needs (future and present), an N900 would have to be really exceptional for me to consider it.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

OMAP3

Read up on Matchbox, not gonna happen. Besides, it's very poor usability for finger-usage.

We don't have this now?

Internet Tablet School? Seriously, though, if you don't want to really make use of your device, then this isn't the platform for you.

It's rather obvious that you're not really in the target audience for these devices. You seem to want a device much larger than a NIT. A weblet or UMPC seems much more suited to your needs. Buy one and move on.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

hmmm. In a thread about what people would like, a wishlist of sorts, and this is the type of responses from you people?

I pass... I had a small-ish list lined up, nevermind if this is the mindset of you people.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Good. I guess. Then let's hope it or a better variation of it is standard on the N9xx's and won't require downloading and compiling and line commanding and adjusting and... .

Too bad. But it is a problem for me and I'm suppose to be a repeat customer (it's hoped).

No. We don't. We have ThemeMaker, which has some drawbacks and not a lot of good documentation and swapping and icons have to be done on the command line.

For someone new to Linux, this seems rather excessive to have to do for what should be a simple task (like choosing applets and background images are). If you have a customer who was entranced by the idea of the product *despite* some anxiety of being Linux-based, the least you can do is let them stay engaged with the unit by allowing easy cosmetic changes.

Pandering to the masses? Well. Yeah. Nokia won't make money or see any point in extending the line if it doesn't get the unwashed masses intrigued (and I speak, of course, as one of the unwashed).

I mean, if the core customer group is suppose to be a guy who really likes tweaking his different Linux distributions and tricking out his gadget, great. God knows I benefited by some good free applications from these people.

But how big is that core group ever going to be and how much more market penetration can you get into that core group of potential customers?

I'm thinking not a whole lot more, especially with this recent opening of other Linux-based cheap tablets and ultraportables and whatever newer phone-based things are already out there or on their way before or concurrent or soon after a N900 release.

So what's so unrealistic about expecting Nokia to dress this thing up a bit in some easy frou frou to make it more appealing to those not too far out of the range of my hypothetical core customers? Especially if it's not too difficult to do?

Of course, the line could sway over to the mapping segment of their market. But then the product becomes a good GPS device with added benefits in a market of a lot of other good GPS devices (I should say here that I'm talking right through my hat on this one since I don't have a car and I just don't have any real use for a GPS so I have no idea how good it even is now for that function).

Great site for the basics. If it expanded to include "unwashed masses speak" for some of the applications out there, it would be fantastic.

I did want to really make use of my device. I'm the customer. I'm the one that paid for this thing. *I* get to decide what those wants are (and if they've been satisfied).

And who *is* the market for these devices and who *will be* the target in the future? I mean, really, I'd like to know from Nokia themselves since they make the things and they have whole marketing and r&d departments.

I mean, once you slice off the market segment that includes people like me (the curious-but-not-particularly-tech-savvy) and once you have to face competition from cheap ultraportable pcs that have the advantage of running Linux and Windows :::shudder::: and the inroads of iTouches and iPhones and smartphones into your markets, at what point would Nokia say, "right. We now have a smaller market for these NITs, we're facing more competition from other companies with other products that mimic a lot of what the Nxxx product line does or used to do when it was more of a market leader, maybe the $$ should be spent on developing new types of products and let the Nxxx line run it's course."

If Nokia wants to accept this new market, fine. Not my company and I hold no stock in it. But I'd expect them to at least find out *why* certain parts of their market groups are falling away from the brand and the Nxxx line and I'm just offerin' some of *my* feedback about what I'd realistically like to see in the N900 line that would keep me interested and loyal. You know... another view point, another part of the market audience so that they don't end up preaching to the converted and being in a smaller and smaller congregation.

Maybe, in the end, I'm not their core demographic market for the Nxxx. But I'm incredibly valuable because I *did* pay for the N800 and I'm far more likely to be a future customer than someone walking by and seeing the N900 in a window (if that happens often in North America).

And if they lose customers with this kind of background because they can't incorporate some feedback from customers like me and throw us some bones into the N9xx, then they effectively cut themselves off from market penetrations and $$$$ (or "concentrate and focus" on a smaller segment while trying to figure out how to wring more profit out of the market).

So, like, I'm just sayin' "don't snark the messenger, man." :rolleyes:

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I sort of agree with Betty to an extent - I'm what I'd call an experienced and interested end-user rather than any sort of technical expert but I very quickly found that I was struggling to make the most of the obvious capability of my N810 due largely to (a) not having a clue about anything Linux-related and (b) that a lot things require quite serious investments of user time (getting a video on it, for example).

BUT, I then found PB's debs (a words I had to wikipedia) for KDE (something I'd never seen before) and tried it out. The N810 has since become something that's with me constantly and used to such an extent that I need to recharge twice a day.

Anyway, wishlist from an end-user who doesn't know what OMAP3 is:

1) A stick-like cursor controller (think ThinkPad nipple) rather than the 5-way D-Pad. Maybe something like what was on Noklia's 9300.

2) Better keyboard, no squishing against the screen.

3) Clamshell format

4) KDE ships as a standard option, making the N810 more of a UMPC than an iPod competitor (Quim! Throw PB some cash and get him on the case for the N900!)

5) Micro, not mini, USB (or vice versa, can never remember but you know what I mean.

6) Faster, more storage.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

IMO the worst idea is putting clamshell and touchscreen together. It's like destroying the whole purpose of having the touchscreen.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

It worked very well in the Psion Series 5(mx), 7 and netBook devices, IMHO.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

But why does that destroy the purpose of a touchscreen again ?

I mean its never been mentioned that a touchscreen has to be always facing the user at all times. You could very well close it down (added protection for the screen) and pop it up when you want to use it.

I have used a Clamshell Zaurus extensively and not once have I felt the clamshell defeating the purpose of the touchscreen on the Zaurus.
Of course the added bonus with the Zaurus was that the clamshell factor could rotate and lie down with screen facing up in portrait mode too as well as sit down laptop like in landscape mode.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

No gerbick, I dont think that GeneralAntilles is the typical intended recipient of this list. I think this list is intended for other people with more class.
I was holding back judgment on him, figuring that his curt rude words were from simple immaturity, and easily overlooked.
After reading the last few responses from him, which were all rather rude and condescending, I can only guess that he is either one of the execs I have been ranting about, or he is a very young developer that is in love with the Nxxx series and if you say anything but "It is the most wonderful purposeful device ever devised and it will rule the world", He gets defensive and rude. He often sounds like a stereotypical tinkerer. One who is happy to fix and futz with a device for funs sake, forgetting how it was marketed.
GeneralAntilles, watch the marketing video that is on all N800's, and the same one that you can easily find on youtube. Do those people look like devs to you? Do they look like geeks who would even want to see the command line? No, they don't. They look like people who want a connected life, and that have found that, at least in some part, in the Nxxx series. That is who this series is marketed to. Betty Woo is the forum poster child for the intended market, if you go on the marketing that Nokia has done. She has no desire to see the command line. She wants a device that does what the ads and installed software lead her to believe it can do. Pretty simple concept. Why cant you get that? Look, I don't know you, and for all I know, you might be a great guy with coding skills God Almighty would envy. But here on this forum, to more people than you might care to admit, you come off as a snobbish, arrogant, elitist, and close minded jerk who has a knack for repulsing people. If that's not you, re-think your words you use here. If it is you, oh boy. would someone get this dog on a leash please?

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

OK, where to start. First, I'm sorry for anything that might have been perceived as an intemperate tone. It was late, I was on a tablet.

Second, WorkingOnWise, you pretty much missed my point entirely. I am not a developer, nor have I ever claimed to be, and I am no tablet fanboy (I'm quite vocal in my criticisms of the platform as anybody who pays any attention can tell you), your own assumptions are simply that, your own. The rest of your rant really isn't worth addressing.

This was in response to this, and several of Betty's other posts about font sizes and readability that I don't feel like digging up.

Hardware wise, the NITs are not 5"+ form-factor devices, nor are they 7" form-factor devices (though I hope they will include these sizes among their lineup one day, that day is not today—nor this year, even). If you have problems seeing the text on the display, the device isn't for you.

Software wise, the NITs really aren't ready for somebody who wants to do everything they can with their device and never touch a commandline, and can't handle the idea of running into a wall trying to figure something out. They may be one day, but, again, that day is not today—nor, again, this year. The device Betty Woo is after is likely to come with step 5 of the plan, sometime in 2009 or 2010. For the time being, this isn't the platform for Betty. :)

This was not an meant as an insult to anybody, but simply a reality of the facts—the NITs are not yet ready for people who want to try to use their devices to the fullest while investing zero time in understanding what makes the system tick. For end-users who just want to browse the net, IM a bit and play some solitaire, sure, for power users and developers who are willing to invest that time, sure, but for Betty, no, not right now.

I've explained the implications of OMAP3 many times in this thread, so anybody wondering what this means simply has to click back a few pages and read.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Maybe we are on the same page more that I think GeneralAntilles.
Yup, I formed the opinion that you might be a dev based on some pretty loose observations, and no claims from you.

Maybe the greatest thing Nokia can do with the N900 is market the thing properly. The marketing and software all say, or give the impression of "Internet Tablet, PIM, Multimedia, and potential for portable office suite and mobile blogging."

The reality is very different indeed. I wonder how may N900 sales they have lost because of the marketing lies that buyers of the current products have seen...

I personally love the size weight and feel of the current Nxxx series, and hope that Nokia leaves it a tablet. Everything else Betty said I totally agree with, but I think that horse might be dead now :)

Of course, if Nokia and you would just concede that I am right and build the N900 my way, why all this would be much easier.:D

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I'd rather use the touch screen to click rather then drag, that's why I like the idea of a kind of scroll wheel. I just got the N810 last week and the first thing I've noticed is dragging webpages and scroll bars isn't that great.

A lot of the ideas here seem to be about the software more then the hardware, but the software doesn't have to be just for the N900, it could be also be for the N8X0. It almost seems offtopic. The other thing is that Nokia could start making more apps for it, but then you end up with the microsoft problem, like the fact that when I bought my laptop with Windows on it, I also paid for a web browser and a whole bunch of other software I didn't use :P.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Well, all the hardware options (reasonable, unreasonable, insane, and wicked sick) have already been discussed. So we had to move on, I guess.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

And more styluses please... at least 5! :)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

The _only_ thing I want is to be able to use my tablet as a "hands-free" device in my car. It's so cool combining GPS/Canola/Email (there is a lot of heavy traffic!)
If only I could use it as hands free it would be the ultimate car device (IMHO).
Phonelink is getting better, but shame about selfone which appears to be vapourware atm. :-(

And of course an something like this for those _really_ annoying journeys
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L...w_Hellfire.jpg
say a pack of 50 with every new IT?

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Oh, yeah...

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Don't know why I wrote "destroy" eventhough I meant "defeat" (well, english isn't my mother tongue anyway). For me the touchscreen is a good way to have a big screen and small form at the same time. One can just pull the device out of the pocket and use it right away, with clamshell you always have to open the device first unless there is a smaller screen on the other side (like N9x, communicators). Slider is a better option if there is a need for real-buttons, since you can just slide the keyboard out like N810 and slide it off when you like. With clamshell the keyboard is always visible, therefore bigger form and harder to use the device using only one hand (now with screen-rotating became available).

tl;dr clamshell = extra work :)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

How about the ability to play Amazon Unbox format videos? They are cheap and relatively small in size and are probably the type of thing the general user would like to do/will try to use with the tablets.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

1024 x 600
512MB RAM

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

/me looks at the calendar...

;)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

What? you (as in: "Pupnik") couldn't get a developer edition?

Boy, there must be some real wizkids developing for the Pandora right now...

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Or the opposite, working on the hardware... No, wait, vapor isn't hard! that can't be... :confused:

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I actually hope the Pandora IS released. The sooner the better. Competition is good. They just need to be careful with the time-bound announcements...

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Joking aside, the Pandora development process has been remarkable in its openness and the way community input has been incorporated "en route". It's exactly the opposite of how Nokia treats the Itablet user community.

We know that 100 selected developers have received the "Mk 0" development edition of the Pandora; we know that there is a problem with the USB chip that needs to be addressed by the manufacturer (and sharing that information with the community scathed pretty close to a breach of NDA); we already know that the Pandora -- contrary to earlier announcements -- will have bluetooth onboard; we have seen the circuit boards; we have seen the prototype cases; we have seen a developer board boot.

How much of all this did Nokia share with its community? There is a thread on this board about the ergonomics of the D-pad, almost identical to threads that were started not long after the 770 came out; how much of the input in those threads made it to the N800?

You have to realize that Nokia isn't in the least bit interested in community input for the Itablet line; they're only interested in a community that will alleviate the work they would have to do themselves otherwise.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

But the Pandora is -- by your own words -- no competition for the Itablets: The Pandora is announced as (among others) a UMPC, which the Itablets are not, are they?

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Yes, it's really impressive; and it's not at all like Nokia's process; the reason? Not to dismiss their interest in making a better console vs. making a killing, but partly because the Pandora team knows their product will "suck" and be denounced as such; they have a niche market and are aiming for it, so they don't have to worry about competition...

Well, as mentioned before, too much openness about plans is a potential problem when you're worried about competition; but accepting input is always good, AFAICS.

No, I don't have to realize that; they're interested in sales, and they know that sales depends on people liking the product, and that one way to make a product that people will like is to listen to what they have to say about the last product.

If not, why that survey on tableteer?

They're interested, and more than the least bit. You could argue that it's one of the lesser bits, still, and I'd like to see that change, but they didn't pay for a survey just to throw out the results completely.

(PS: See the N810, with a nice shiny keyboard? That's from listening to the community; many people wanted a keyboard (although I'm still not persuaded it's a great idea, and especially reject that implementation), so they put a keyboard in one model.)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

umpc, mid, ulpc, netbook, the lables are to many...

latest was mind i think, basically a mid with gps capability :P

its as if one could start a (********) bingo based on those terms...

as for the openness of the pandora team vs the nokia team, i think it comes from nokia being a "old" corp, used to a attitude of keeping their cards close to the chest.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Honestly, as silly as it seems, I think the terms *do* make a difference. Phone, Smartphone, MID, UMPC (tablet), Netbook (ultraportable laptop), Laptop, & Desktop are terms I think we will be hearing for a long time. MID would be an N8x0/900 & iPod Touch, while a UMPC would be a larger tablet that can't be fit inside your pants pocket. That's the determining factor right there. I come from the smartphone world, and I know what a smartphone is... but the MID category is definitely a new idea for me, and I'm liking it. As for the other terms, a netbook is obviously a limited, ultraportable laptop, and it's much easier to say too!

There's nothing wrong with being paranoid when money is involved is there? I thought that was just natural for humans to look after their best interest...

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I would want the following:

* Maintain current features (WiFi, Bluetooth, Maemo, etc.)
* An SDR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software-defined_radio)
* GPS
* Standard USB port (I think it would be better then the current USB device port)
* Button controlled volume

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Show me where I said that, Karel.

You're letting your bitterness get the best of your common sense. Nokia's and Pandora's approaches are fundamentally different. Pandora isn't burdened by a long legacy of proprietary development. You are expecting too much, too soon from a monolithic cell phone manufacturer. I suggest a cold dose of reality to temper that idealism.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

What's non-standard about the current port, and in what way would a separate host-port be better than including a host-mode dongle/adapter with it? To me, the only argument I see against the current situation is the inconvenience of having to acquire a third-party adapter. It makes more sense to include an adapter in the package than to add a ~0.5" square port in an already-cramped device...

An SDR would be really cool, but if that happens, you know the interface won't be publicly available, and the code won't be open-source, right?

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I'm a bit lost here, why would they think this and why would they expect it? The hardware is very cool, I'll get one just to play with that hardware in some sort of package (rather than a dev board).