Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Oh, you weren't among those claiming that the Internet Tablets are just that: tablets to access Internet? That everything else users want to do with the Itablets is not something Nokia envisioned them doing with the Itablets, so they shouldn't complain if e.g. video doesn't play as smoothly as on a dedicated PMP?

By that theory, the Pandora is indeed no competition for the Itablets: It's way better.


Have a look at Slashdot today to see how Ari Jaaksi's statements are received by the Open Source community.

You know, I don't know him all that well, I just think that, of what I've read of him before, that he comes over as a pedantic poco, but I couldn't have asked for a better supporter of my statements and sentiments of Nokia.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

The port is standard for peripheral devices. I want to be able to plug in USB devices like a keyboard or flash disk.

There are a quite a few FLOSS SDR projects (mostly coming from the ham radio community), but I would be as happy as a pig in ##### if I was able to load in the appropriate software to get me the radio I need.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

You can use a keyboard and flash disk using the current usb port just need a female to female adaptor or a usb extention cable.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

You should probably edify yourself a bit on this. :)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

This is so cool... Where can I buy one? They say that it is available for end users in June/July... By any chance they mean this year??? :rolleyes:

On the other hand, while very interesting device, it just seem a bit too big for my liking.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

agreed 100 percent, the device should be able to put into a front pocket. I also like the camera in the n800 being rotatable... just needs more resolution....

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

What I mean is that it'll be reviewed in wired and the like, and declared a neat toy, but really sucktastic. It's aimed at two groups:

1. Hobbyists/geeks/hackers (like you and like me) who like this lovely little bit of hardware, and will deal with whatever software is on it, without too much complaining about the odd bit of polish or features missing, and without a concern in the world that none of the software houses are releasing any games for it.
2. Gamers who care about gameplay more than graphics, and are persuaded there's plenty of good gameplay in older games for platforms that can be emulated on the Pandora, and in SDL games and the like that can be readily ported.

Those are both pretty niche, so most reviews are going to focus on the lack of cover flow, and that it won't play DS games (yet), and pretty majorly diss it.

The Pandora looked good on paper with its awesome hardware specs, and it does play the few games that run on it very well, but unless you really like Zelda 2 and King's Quest 4, get yourself a DS lite.

The target audience will likely read those reviews, read between the lines, and go order one; so they don't really need to fear that criticism.

But big corporations do fear that sort of review, because it leaves impressions in consumers' minds about the entire brand, so they don't have any serious competition.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Karel, if you're going to publicly accuse me of something and lump me in with any crowd, I'd appreciate if you backed it up with quotes instead of just tossing out the usual easy snide commentary.

And I won't get into the rest of your reply other than to say your bias obviously leads you to the same extreme (and misguided) judgment as the kneejerking rabid slashdotters. Speaking of crowds-- that's sure a nice one. :rolleyes:

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

That screen's the same size as the N800's, isn't it? It looks to me like it should barely be taller than the N800 (on account of the hinge), just a smidgen narrower, and of course thicker. Looks quite pocketable, and the size is no problem at all for me...

(The pictures, IMHO, make it look big; I have to keep reminding myself the screens are the same size.)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Well, looking only at recent thread-drift, it's obvious that what we would realistically like to see in the N900 is... a Pandora clone?

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Do you think Nokia can give it a Clamshell design and people can mistake it for a Nintendo DS instead of a cell phone.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

That's why I said a "bit too big"... not huge, just a bit too big. As comparison to N800 the N810 is not as wide and it makes significant difference in pocketability, more than I first thought when just comparing the dimensions on paper. The N810 is about the perfect size in my opinion.

And we do not know (cough... :p) how the "N900" will look and what HW spec it has... but personally I'm really looking forward to it. :D

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

You've been hanging around the rat too much.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

i would not mind a N900 with a keyboard solution similar to sharp zaurus.

or maybe, something where one can either have it like the N810 right now, tilted up like the HTC shift, or fully folded over to protect the screen.

oh and throw in a dual digitizer screen ;)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

The screen is bigger; it's actually the same 4.3" screen of the Archos 605 (which is, for those that have seen it, gorgeous). The Pandora as a whole is marginally bigger than a Nintendo DS Lite (140x83x27 mm -- DS Lite: 133 mm×73.9 mm×21.5 mm). This would make IMO quite pocketable.

Also, no bulges...

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Ah.. 4.3" vs. 4.1"... whatever. No bulges? You mean vs. what exactly? I'm not familiar with the DS lite (never had time/money to care about a games-only machine), but the N800 is thinner at the bulge than the Pandora, so the lack of bulges seems immaterial, if that's what you meant...

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

clamshell needs to have the touchscreen in the bottom half of the clam, thus it's only possible really for dual screen setup, not for qwerty setup. Anyway, might work. Maybe someone could make an example proto out of a 770 or n800.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I remember the days when the N800's bulge was a Big Deal. Personally I couldn't care less, but I figured I'd mention it, mainly -- I admit -- to try some trolling.

I see one clear advantage of the Pandora's design: Watching movies in bed should actually be easier with the Pandora (for me personally, that is); the clamshell design makes it sit more stable on my chest.

Other than that, what can I say about the Pandora? It's certainly not in my Newtons' league, but it's better than the Psion Series 5mx; ergonomically not as good as the Psion Netbook though. BTW, I still chuckle when people claim Asus "invented" the subnotebook. I now own two devices that prove them wrong (HP Omnibook 425 fand Psion Netbook) and if, §DEITY willing, I can get my hands on an eMate one day, it'll be three.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I'd like to see something like Pandora with a smaller clamshell design & 2 SD card slots, but I'd also like the keyboard to be a bit different. I can type pretty fast with my Treo 755p; I figure the reason is because of shorter distance between keys, and the keys are tapered very well so that you can feel the difference between one key & the next easily. The Treo's thumbboard is just barely larger than 1"x2"... it's incredible. I wish these MIDs would start using thumbboards like the Treos in the middle of a compact clamshell design (think DS Lite), with joystick (or d-pad) on left side of keys and gaming keypad on right side for essential gaming buttons!!

I haven't been too fond of the sliders, like N810, but I am considering the Gigabyte M528 that runs Ubuntu Mobile - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76NviXg_1g4 .... only disappointment seems to be the less than 3 hr battery life. But I can manage to pay for another battery or two. I *really* like how it has a SIM card slot and practical cameras on both sides of the machine. The only way it could be better, IMO, is the better keyboard/joystick (d-pad)/5-way input setup like I mentioned above.

There are just too many good machines to look out nowadays, I'll prolly skip the N800. But I really do want that 5+ hour battery life. Arrgghh...

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

The Pandora has two SD card slots. Theoretically it could even be made smaller by dropping the gaming controls (which is basically its "raison d'être", so it won't happen) or even the keyboard (but if the Nokia tablets have learned us anything, it is that a tablet without an easy way to input text is humbug).

People who have actually used the keyboard on Pandora prototypes claim it is surprisingly easy to use, although I suspect less easy than Psion's marvelous Series 5 keyboard (the only palmtop I've ever been able to touch-type -- sort-offish -- on).

I've had 2 Treos (270 and 650) and found neither thumbpads particularly easy for anything but really short entries.

Oh, and Pandora will come with a 4,000 mAh battery for 10 hours of computing or up to 100 (!) hours of basic music playback.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Not saying it didn't, just saying I think that should be STANDARD on all MIDs like the ones we're discussing.

I can easily get 35+ WPM while backspacing for errors, and including off the wall characters. If you know of a device that gets better WPM stats with just thumbs & including corrections.... I will consider it above any other device, for sure!!!

Battery life isn't so important to me when the device is as large as the Pandora. It's all about tradeoffs, and I'd rather have a more compact device with half the battery life. Everybody has their own preferred tradeoffs, but size is of utmost priority for me...

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

This page - http://www.pocketables.net/mobile-device-keyboard.html - shows that 35+WPM is VERY good cosidering the size of the Treo's thumbboard and the other keypads that get better than 35+WPM. I'm saying that if the Treo keyboard were adapted with SLIGHTLY larger keys, but the same type of tapered keys... would be AMAZING for all MIDs!!!

And I highly doubt that that sight showing avg typing speeds would include off the wall characters like forward slashes, etc.... that are necessary for ssh'ing. Tiny thumbboards ARE the answer for the off the wall keys. Nothing I'm saying is COPY this, but ADAPT this... take the style, but increase size & add a tab key. That would satisfy ALL Linux keys for sure!!!!

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Why is that? Is the screen too heavy to be on top?

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

No way.... the DS Lite isn't too top heavy.

Make a DS Lite with Treo thumbboard (same size keys, but just a tad more space between keys for those with large thumbs) in place of the touch screen. Keep D-Pad & gaming buttons (A,B,X,Y) to the side of the thumbboard. Top screen would be a touchscreen with virtually no border.... and hopefully this clamshell could flip around to be turned into tablet mode. With 5-way somewhere right next to the screen, like N800 (I'm honestly not even considering an N810 because of this and the lack of SD slots). I use the 5-way much more than I use touchscreen on my Treo. I feel like all smartphones & MIDs that want to have hardware keyboards need to take notes from the Treos' keyboard & 5-way pad integration with sofware.

Something like the Pandora but with smaller form factor & screen that can rotate into tablet mode with 5-way next to screen, & SIM slot.

They thumbboard is key, tho!! Treos have done this right for 4+ years!!! And companies, starting with HTC decided that slider thumbboards that had FLAT keys RIGHT next to each other were the greatest idea ever. Go back to the drawing boards, guys!!

Ahhh.... I'll never find a device worth my money.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Just to clarify a detail: The only reason the Pandora is a "classic" clamshell and doesn't swivel, is because all the swivel methods are heavily patented.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Long time.

There have been so many interesting ideas in this thread! Such an interesting perspective of consumer preferences (and perspective).

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but I'd really like to see an ear speaker on the unit (or some holes to channel the right speakers sound) so that it can be held to ones face like a phone for voip applications. Bluetooth headsets are nice, but sometimes, all you want to do is click 'answer' and then have a quick conversation. The speaker also works, but there are many occasions where I would like to have a conversation without every one in the room being privy to its topics. With wimax and grocery stores, this becomes even more relevant.

I'm also very interested in nvidia's tegra showing. It's probably not really 'realistic' as the chip itself is (IIRC) only to be released later this year (enough time for production?) and nokia has a long standing with TI. However, nvidia has been known for their strong 3D hardware and linux support and the Tegra demos are quite impressive.

Tegra HD (720p)
Tegra Gaming
Tegra UI

This hardware could easily handle a 3D user interface (zooming, rotating, animation) similar to compiz fusion, osx, or vista. I see this as a benefit beyond simple eye-candy. The ability to quickly zoom in and out (for example), makes the small screen more more effective and displaying and organizing lots of content.

YARR!
}:^)~

Capt'n San

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I think this thread ought to be re-born as two separate threads:

a) What do you want to see in the next gen IT

(What I want is basically a Sidekick Slide shaped device, but large enough for an N800/N810 size screen, and for its sliding screen to also tilt; button layout similar to the slide might be nice, but might not be necessary (a second dpad instead of the trackball would be fine); I want it to charge via USB, and have an express card slot on the top edge, especially for WWAN access ... and maybe a micro-dvi out on the top edge ... and a microSDHC card slot, but support having storage cards put into the express card slot, such as an express card that can hold SDHC cards ... do not have a miniSDHC card slot)


b) What do you want to see in the future IT OS

(bluetooth DUN _and_ bluetooth PAN built into the OS wizard; ability to fully remote control a Nokia phone, including controlling the phone via bluetooth HID, and displaying the phone's screen via bluetooth BIP; SIP phone client, UMA phone client, full IM client (not just Jabber), real IMAP support, sync contacts with Gmail, PIM (at last as good as what I have on my E62), sync calendar/etc. with Google Calendar, direct sync contacts and calendar between a Nokia phone and the tablet, an included Xterm that remembers your settings and can do black background for white or colored text, included VNC client and server, included OpenSSL client and server ... or, instead of including VNC and SSH servers, have some form of linux _AND_ mac _AND_ windows compatible remote desktop capability ... and last, but not least, a port of the OS to the E66, E71, and E90)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Hm. I have in mind a method that I haven't seen in use... I'd be happy to work with them to get a working prototype.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Haven't seen != hasn't been patented... they probably don't want to go through the legal battles to get an obvious patent thrown out, though I'd bet some of the swivel ones could easily be tossed.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Probably; I got my info from the developers themselves. Given that just about any aspect of the Pandora has been heavily debated in the community's forums and that the developers have "caved in" on several other points (you should have seen the cyberwars on the volume slider vs wheel!), I'd say that the swivel option was just too risky/expensive, because quite a lot of people did ask for it.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

If it involves a detacheable and reversible screen portion, it's been suggested already.

In fact, just about anything possible and impossible has been. I think that in the end the clamshell design has one huge thing going for it: It's simple and less prone to breakage.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I love clamshell designs soo much. But, I'm really starting to dig the tablet design even more.

The only thing driving me away from the Pandora is the super wide thumbboard. If they're gonna make me stick with a crappily designed thumbboard like the first HTC slider devices that came out years ago, I'll just stick with the Gigabyte M528. I really don't like sliders, but if that's the only way I can get a keyboard on a tablet-like device... so be it.

It's also hard for me to put money into something like Pandora, because I don't have faith in all open source communities, only a select few. The Gigabyte M528 will prolly only have 3hrs of battery life, but with Canonical and Intel backing Ubuntu Mobile & Moblin on the most common x86 platform... support will NOT be an issue there. I think I could manage to carry around an extra battery or two if need be. I almost feel like Nokia will be soon giving up on their tablet endeavor if they don't start pumping out better hardware. It's sad that the N800 seemed better than the N810 all around, and now they've discontinued the N800. Sad, sad, sad, Nokia!

Karel, do you know when the Pandora should be released? ... and what the supposed dimensions will be??

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

You try the link in his sig? I think there's dimensions there, but if not, just search around a bit. They're on one of the three or so Pandora sites, which seem more-or-less equal in officialness.

WRT communities, I hope Debian is sufficiently faith-inspiring? It's likely, from what I've seen, that Debian will work nicely on the Pandoras with no closed-source components required.

As for Nokia, I think the N810 is hardware-wise ahead of most competitors; the
N800 is just better because it's so much ahead of the competitors. (No, there's no good reason for falling behind, IMHO, but that doesn't make it worse than it is.) And the next hardware version will be a lot better, though I must confess I'm concerned they may keep some of the external blunders.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

That's actually a hard one at the moment: Developer editions of the Pandora have been shipped already since may (100 select developers received a DIY, semi-prototype version, in order to get software development running).

Normally, commercial versions of the Pandora should ship in July, but the makers have hit a snag: The manufacturer of the analog "thumb sticks" (game controllers) has unexpectedly bailed out. There are replacements available, but they are all compromises and the community is still arguing about it. At the moment, august is put forward as a reasonable shipping date.

Keep in mind that the original production run will "only" be 3,000 units, but new runs are dependent on its success and, given that the first 3,000 are likely already spoken for (there are no preorders possible yet, but the preorder mailing list is rather full, I'm told), I shouldn't worry if I didn't get one of the first batch.

Dimension wise, the Pandora is a little bit larger than a Nintendo DS Lite. It is quite pocketable.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I admit that I'm too lazy to check the website and ml, but hopefully you can answer few questions:
-what sort of kernel is it going to run? TI one?
-is there any contribution to the linux-omap ml? I don't recall seeing anybody mentioning pandora in patches
-what omap is it gonna use: 34xx or 35xx?
-does it use the IVA? For what?
-does it use the DSP bridge in the original form?
-what power management techniques does it implement?
-are the operating points known?

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

This is my point. N800 is miles ahead of everybody because it was first in line.

N810 would be selling lots more if there was more R&D put into the keyboard/input. For example, moving the 5-way pad from the top of the tablet was friggin' ******ed. Ridding the 2 SD slots of the N800 for 1 miniSD slot of the N810 was friggin' ******ed. Really... the only reason I could see to buy the N800 is the *slightly* smaller dimensions (insignificant) and GPS (so slow that it's also insignificant). The N800 & N810 were supposed to sell "alongside" each other... but the N810 didn't sell like they'd expected, so they canceled the N800. Smooth move, Nokia.

As for the Pandora device... I'd highly consider it, but they'd need to change thumbboard to something like I described above. Treo keys with slightly more space between keys. Then gaming joystick/buttons to the left & right of the thumbboard.

I could live without the swiveling clamshell feature, and I'd gladly pay more for licensing fees to get that feature... Wondering if there'd be some kinda way for the current Pandora's hinges to just fold all the way around, so that the keys would be showing on the other side... but they'd be disabled. That idea can't be patented, right?

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Oh yes it can. And it has been.

(Your idea was suggested on the forum and dismissed by the developers because it too has been patented)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Two things I DON'T want to see:

1) Anything remotely resembling a GSM radio or SIM card. That means that there will be exclusive carrier contracts, and people will be left out in the cold. Besides, don't like the company and drop the coverage? Chances are your fancy toy is dead.

2) Charging via USB. The idea here is mobility. How mobile are you if you can only charge from a computer (or spend even more for an adapter), instead of being able to plug into any wall outlet (think hotel, airport, coffee shop, etc). May as well leave the Nxxx at home and bring your laptop, since you wouldn't be able to charge your Nxxx without it anyways.

Now, a couple things I DO want to see.

1) A keyboard with nubs or something. Seriously, my fingers are fat. I like the concept of a keyboard, and it's fine when you get used to it, but that flat keyboard is hard to type with.

2) A swiveling camera (didn't the N800 have it?). I don't videoconference, however, I would value the ability to take photos not including myself from my Nxxx... (cause face it, I'm ugly)

Nothing not already suggested though.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

@spaceman3750:
#2: There are lots of small USB A\C adapter in the market. So you can have your cake and eat it too on this point.
ie: http://www.usbfever.com/index_eprodu...roducts_id=443

PS: That's an interesting public disclosure on your list of things u DO want to see...
#1: You're Fat
#2: And ugly
:D

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Two days ago I was watching the Italy match against France ( *grin* ) on the sofa with my tablet as a companion (my girlfriend was not interested and was playing with her toys in the kitchen).
During the match I was commenting with friends on-line that are now living around the world (one was in New Delhi [at that time in Columbus], one in Germany and one [still] here in Italy).

At the end of the match, one of them asked me:

"where are you skyping from ? you're typing really fast!"

He thought I was skyping from a laptop. And he knew I can type really fast from a laptop too!

And that made me think that after being accustomed to the keyboard, you can type really fast.
I'll post a picture showing my fingers on the keyboard, so that you can see if I am fat or not :)

Update: there you have it

http://picasaweb.google.com/anidel/M...04142767011602