Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

But that summit's tagging onto OSiM. Think about that.


p.s. And there have been hints. I'm not finding the reference ATM, but something was said about expecting the agenda to reshuffle in reaction to an announcement from Nokia.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I have a wifi SDIO for my Palm Tungsten T5.. it sucks.. a lot. At least I CAN do wifi.. but because it's so small, it's awful at catching signal (comparatively, my N800 catches even better than my laptop's wifi--impressively so!) and it uses a slot that I would otherwise have preferred to use for memory.

I would prefer to avoid SDIO and instead promote something with a better form factor for a radio device upgrade. Also--if it's big enough a DMA slot with decent integration, it can be used for other things (expansion of all sorts) likethe geek port on the BeBox, for example. After all, this appears to me to be mainly a geek's tablet.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

You might have something there.....Ohhhh, please, please, let it be so.....

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

If I'm not gonna be there, I'm at least gonna hype it so either

1. People will be ready to report back live from the announcement. :D
2. or they'll be disappointed, which will serve them right for getting to go. :mad:

j/k ;)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

OK. I'll bite on this thread. Hopefully Nokia listens. . .

Let's be realistic here. No pie in the sky kind of stuff.

1) OMAP 35xx Applications Processor with OpenGL support.

2) Two standard SD card slots.
(I don't want limited built in flash, or miniSD. MiniSD is way too expensive.

3) No scratched up metal casings!
(I'm sick of seeing crappy looking scratched N810s. I'd rather keep my N800 with a BT keyboard. I spent $150 USD on a BT keyboard, and bought another N800, rather than having a scratched up, barely expandable N810 with a somewhat buggy GPS module. I'd rather by a separate phone with GPS than to buy an N810, or an N810 successor if they keep using MiniSD and scratchable metal casings.)

4) A hardware keyboard would be nice. . .

5) GPS is ok too. . .

6) A display with support for at least a 768 vertical screen resolution.
(So we can see our dialog boxes. ;)

7) At least 512MB RAM.
(So we can run our applications. ;)

8) An open source WLAN driver.

That's it! Nothing fancy. . . Just the basics are enough for me. Unfortunately it seems they can't simply settle on getting the basics correct FIRST before trying to get fancy with other things :(

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

No, you mean OMAP3430. The OMAP3530 is larger and is missing a couple of important wireless interfaces.

Good news is that OMAP3 should have the bus support to do this easily if Nokia decides they need to bundle a 2-4GB internal card again.

Er, no, that's not realistic. The OMAP3430 (the OMAP3420 and OMAP3410 go up to 640x480) supports a max of 1024x768, which means 1024x600 at our aspect ratio. That's really pushing the "sane" dpi limits, though.

Not entirely realistic, I've come to find out. The largested PoP packages currently offered are either 256MB SDRAM, no NAND or 128MB SDRAM and 256MB NAND. That's all that's available from the two suppliers (Samsung and Micron). This is also why the Pandora and Beagle don't offer more than 128MB of RAM. This may change, but I doubt we'll reach 512MB with any NAND.

Yeah, this thread has well and truly run its course, considering that I covered exactly what's realistic and desired back on page 1 in October last year. . . .

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Many basics were done correctly with the N810. People just disagree on which ones they are.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

For example, I think a hardware keyboard is a bad idea, but that's just me. ;)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

We already have this; 800 is definitely over 768. :p

Really, you should just get about three N800s and Xdmx. Show that SD Multi Tool who's the boss!

(I've honestly considered this; while it would be ubercool, it's likely enough to fail and minor enough in utility for me to never get around to it.)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

heh, now i have the vision of having one N810 and a couple of N800's wired up as a cluster with synergy as the control system :D

why the singular N810? the keyboard ;)

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I've actually got a picture of this somewhere . . . I should upload it.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

"I want to address one thing about the cellphone inside a NIT. We all agree that it would be bad because telco companies might place restrictions"

No big deal, but we don't all agree on that.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I would like to see a SIM slot for 3G (or 4G future conection) because Simyo in my country (Spain) is offering a 25 €/moth access to Internet without penalty for exceed the 5 GB limit and without to limit VoIP or P2P conections.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Wow....not about the run it's course part, about the page 1 part. I hadn't seen page one in quite a while. Now what's interesting, is that when I looked at it, and looked at your "Not. Gonna. Happen." section, the more than 60GB with out size or weight increase caught my eye. Why says you? Cause...of the Archos toys that just came out. They somehow managed to squeeze 60GB in a package smaller than the n810 (well, thinner, slightly wider, 72mm vs 78mm, but then it has a 5inch screen). Of course they're pretty much completely in the opposite direction on the open source OS part of your NGH, but at least there is some indication that large amounts of storage space without compromising the form factor isn't impossible. Now battery life, I don't know about. They're claiming 12 hours of music playback, anyone here know what they currently get out of their n810 or n800 on just straight music playback (obviously not real world, but for comparison sake).

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

You didn't address battery-life; I don't know if that's an issue or not.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Yeah, I've got to say, I appreciate the concerns regarding telco restrictions and additional FCC hoops to jump through, but honestly, I don't know that I'm completely sold on the telco restriction part. I mean, Nokia wouldn't have to sell it through a telco. The phone I have right now (e51) wasn't available through my telco provider (ATT), but I was able to get it and it works very well (as in I have no problems what so ever) with my services. What's more, the phone is not a US phone (I purchased it over the interweb, it has some chinese charecters on the keys). So really, not including a GSM or CDMA radio is down to the additional FCC hoops. Personally, I'd like to see some kind of implementation of what has been suggested several times here(on this thread), namely a slot for a module, where the module would contain the radio. As in you can swap out a GSM or CDMA or whatever module/radio you what. This way you could have the radio modules be FCC certified seperately, and people who didn't want them didn't have to get them. I also though that SDIO would present an ideal vehicle for this, since there seem to be a fair number of people who would opt for additional storage (additional as in, in addition to the two full sized slots that we've all agreed should be included) in the place of the radio module, but I have no personal experience with SDIO, and the people who do have the experience seem to have had a poor experience. Anyways....I think having access to an uninterrupted data stream would be a good thing and WiFi is not ubiquitous, and WiMax...welll, let's just say that maybe Nokia should hedge it's bets.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I'm asking YOU, well, not you Benson :P, but anyone who has run their n810 continuously, but just playing music. How long did it last?

Nokia's info blurb on the n810 rates their battery life at 10 hours of music playback. I guess that's a semi valid comparison, since we're comparing website spec, to website specs rather than website specs, to user experience. So there you have it, 60 Gb, without sacrificing form factor or battery life. And it (the Archos), is using the chip that we expect to be used in the n900, it should be completely do able.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Karel Jansens has posted stuff on that, though it may have been an N800 instead. (Should be close enough.) I'm pretty sure it was over 10 hours. I don't know (and am too lazy to look) what the Archos's battery capacity is, though.


Oh, and I just realized you did say you didn't know about battery life. :o Missed it before I posted, I guess.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

With my experience in N810 I currently got, I would love to see N9*0 to have:

> The size is perfect but I love to have the screen little more big and I think its possible coz there are lot unused space.
> I'd love to see at least 900x540 screen resolution and a true color.
> I found the raised edges around the screen very irritating coz touching the corner buttons with fingers is very hard. I wouldn't like to see the same in N9*0.
> ability to save applications anywhere in the available cards so that cloning wouldn't be necessary to download big applications
> At least 40 GB internal memory with card slot that can fit all card adapters like in laptops.
> 256 MB RAM atleast coz now just opening 3 applications takes up all the memory.
> I read in symbian pages that 1GHz processor is being developed for smart phones and why not in N9*0.
> I would love to see N9*0 easily and efficiently run Debian and all its applications though I haven't use debain at all. This is because, then I could use Debian without having to have a computer running it.
> 3D accelerator and fancy graphics card as in PCs to run amazing, eye-catching 3D games.
> Also, I like the idea of hardware keyboard but they keys are little stiff and unresponsive, So, I would like to see easy to press and responsive keys so that one can type faster with more typing senses.

Oh, I think I should stop before it gets tooo long to go through...

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

1024x600; I've never heard of any intermediate resolution like that, and I expect 900 would be at least as expensive as the full 1024. I'm cautiously optimistic on this, though, as there are 1024x600 4.8" screens out there, and it seems likely that N810 and N800 sized models could be made with a 4.8" screen.
I think I've commented on this 3 times in this thread, so I shan't bore everyone with a repeat; I do seem to be in the minority. I guess I'll just have to get one of those protective cases like they make for iPhones; the ones that ruin the sleek design by adding the bezel that shouldn't have been left off. :rolleyes:
That won't happen; between the weaknesses of the FAT filesystem and the way apps live in the filesystem, the only practical option available is to union mount an imagefile on the SD. Which is still quite untidy, and I can't see Nokia shipping such a thing. The other possibility is a native SD boot from the internal MMC interface.
40 GB is only useful if Nokia intends to market it in the PMP direction as well -- they could, but they'd need to ship mplayer and a front end (probably Canola), and they've not shown interest in pursuing that market segment so far. 16GB or 32GB seem much more likely than 40, as well, since moviNAND part numbers are defined for 4, 8, 12 and 16 GB. (That's the 2GB internal SD used in the N810; at least 16GB are available now.)

As for the card slot "that can fit all card adapters", I'm not sure what that means, because none of my 3 laptops has any such thing. The union of my laptops' card slots would be: ExpressCard/34, SD/XD/MS, and type III PCMCIA, with no laptop having more than two of them. If you meant either an ExpressCard or PCMCIA, I can't see how those could be fit without substantially enlarging the device.
To support XD (which are much shorter than SD), the combo slot leaves the SD sticking out partway; none of these are suited to a pocketable device, IMO. One reasonable option would be a CF slot, which would allow a CF->PCMCIA dongle, except that PCMCIA is essentially dead; SD and USB seems like the most useful possibility without wasting a lot of space.
I don't know how you're measuring RAM usage, but I'd guess you're counting stale file-backed pages. Don't. (Even more memory is almost certainly coming, though.)
It's practically certain it'll be an OMAP34xx SoC, which can be expected to clock in the 0.8-1 GHz range.
Well, we're pretty much there; while some more open hardware would help, solutions using Nokia's proprietary stuff are already there, and what's left is

1. much more software than hardware dependence
2. not really about Nokia's image

So the N900 release should have practically nothing to do with it.
Silly me, I wanted fun games, and amazing, eye-catching 3D graphics hacks (from xscreensaver, mainly), but anyway, it won't have a graphics card. That would make it just a bit large and clunky. It will, provided it has an OMAP34xx, have PowerVR 3D acceleration in the SoC, putting it in line with the best smartphones and iPhones.
Don't have, so can't really comment, but I hope they have at least two models: one like the N800, and one like the N810.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

About the fun 3d games: are there any for linux?

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Depends on your definition for fun :D

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Sure, start with the ones we've already got—only fast. ;)

Actually, ioquake3-based stuff isn't out of the realm of possibilities with the PowerVR SGX530. . . .

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

All kind of 3D shooters (quake and variants), car racing (torcs), bzflag, scorched3d, glest, ...

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Tons! For starters, here is an (out of date) list and here is an article about someone's top 25 Linux games for 2008.

Websites dedicated to Linux gaming:
http://www.linuxgames.com
http://www.happypenguin.org
http://www.tuxgames.com

Besides native games & ports there are all kind of emulators. There is even an implementation of the Windows API (WINE) which allows one to play Windows games with variated success.

However, one might want to run a specific game on Linux.

The focus on the NIT is to get all kind of classic games (and emulators) running. This opens up possibility to get a huge arsenal of games working on the NIT however mostly 'old' games or clones of old games. Useful for several reasons e.g. nostalgia but also if the game formula is well or aspects of the game are good (e.g. storyline in Beneath A Steel Sky) it is potentially a lot of fun.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

WINE's rendered completely irrelevant for the tablets, of course, but we've got a good assortment; FPSes and racing games, as mentioned above. Including (sort of in the racing genre) Tuxracer/planetpenguinracer/whatever it's called these days.

But also Chromium B.S.U; though I'm not entirely sure how it'll work with a touchscreen, it should be doable. (It needs to look for some key, rather than the mouse button.) If you haven't played that, then you don't know what you're missing. Not to demean Tyrian, which we already have, but they're different, and you need both.

I'd mainly be interested in Chromium and Q2/3, which are somewhat wanting in impressiveness these days, as they already run on "everything", but are good solid fun (which is what I want from a game).

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

3G access.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

That's a nice wish, but there are several ways of getting "3G access", and they've all been discussed at length.

Right now, all NITs can get 3G access by pairing with a 3G phone over BT, and using DUN or PAN.

Other options include building a 3G radio into the tablet; this is bad because it ties the tablet to one particular technology, and likely to one or two frequency bands. Also, those without 3G service must pay for extra hardware they'll never use; while the price increase may be worth it for some, it'll probably stop some people from purchasing it.

The best option that I can see is to have some sort of slot, probably under the battery door, which would accommodate various 3G radios; this would cost substantially less than an integrated radio, would afford flexibility in network technology, and could be used for purposes other than a radio as well. The size tradeoff is still made, though, even for those not using a radio/storage/whatever card at all.

But BT's not bad at all, if a slot doesn't happen.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

O totally agree with Benson. I said the same thing earlier.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Those top 25 linux games look really good. Is there a similar list for games that run on the tablet?

I checked the Gaming thread on this forum already.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

There've been a whole host of "post your favorite apps here!!1!" threads, including one or two game-focused ones; other than that, you can browse the Games category on maemo.org. Don't know of a list like that, exactly.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

It is indeed a good list. It doesn't include Enemy Territory though which although its a few years old still is a great collaborative FPS based on Q3 engine. It is open sourced. It wouldn't run well on the NIT though. I think Quake 2 would somehow push the limit of the device already, but the fact the Q2 engine and Q3 engine source is open is really great and might open possibilities for other revisions of the NIT as well as devices like Pandora.

Hexen and Heretic were recently GPLed. This news is potentially interesting for NIT users because these games can run on the NIT. This kind of news is posted on websites about Linux gaming. So if you read such websites there is definately interesting news provided but you must keep in mind the limits of your device.

Many games won't work on the NIT because
1) The game requires an x86 emulator (closed source Linux x86 binary, or WINE requires such).
2) Graphics acceleration on NIT is not good.
3) Requires more CPU or RAM or better IO (lack of disk space can be mitigated with SD cards).
4) Nobody ported or compiled it for ARM (yet).

There is also a Tetrinet client for Linux (at least GTetrinet), but I don't know whether it is ported to the NIT.

I remember someone made a top 10 interesting forum posts on ItT, and this effort was well received. It might appear interesting to make a (community) project to make a top 25 games list for the NIT, but what are the requirements to call a game 'good'? This is personal, and therefore I noted it was someone's list when I referred to the top 25 Linux game list (for x86 PCs obviously although some engines are GPLed and might be ported). You might as well first make a list of games which work. Wiki is excellent place to start such.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

[ot] I love that game! Now you've inspired me to fire it up some time this week.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

In a somewhat similar vein, there's Tremulous.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

My wish is for a sim card slot and more memory so I can run big apps like word processors a little better.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

I wonder if anyone is really going to go thru this thread and pick out the good ideas....

Anyway, a mistake noted in another thread prompts me to suggest an FM transmitter. Maybe it would be too big...

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

Well, someone drudged up a list a while back, and nothing new has been added since. FM transmitters have been mentioned.

One practical difficulty: I'm not sure the FCC will ok it if it supports Japanese bands under a software lockout. Oh, and space and power are definitely problems, too.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

geneven, per your recommendation, I have gone thru this thread and composed a list of the best ideas.
I will publish this list soon.

It seems the best idea so far is the one hoping for a sim card.
There were lots of good ideas however this one seems to be the best and most desired.

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

r o f l

Re: What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?
 

No sim card. The N800 is the perfect size for a front pants pocket. No complaints here, but expanding the screen out to the edges with increased resolution would be great. It's too big to take out every time you get a call. I prefer a small, easy to get at, cell phone on my belt. Seperate works best for me.