Re: Garnet VM Beta for Nokia Internet Tablet
 

The address book beats the N800's contacts app by a mile, for one simple reason: without adding any external software, I could keep my palm address book in sync with my desktop address books, giving me 1 consistent address book across all of my systems.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

It runs much faster under OS2008. When testing with 770 (OS2006 or 7) and with N800 with latest OS2007 Bejeweled game was unplayable like slideshow with stuttering sound. I was wonderin why they dared to mention it on Garnet VM page. With OS2008-based N800 it flies and even music plays almost with no hiccup :-)
Not sure if it is due to faster system libraries or 400MHz CPU, perhaps both.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

A note for the hyjack portion of the thread...

I loved OS/2. I don't think it failed for windows emulation though.

It failed because there wasn't a consumer pricing model. Windows at the time sold to 'people' at about 1/3 the price of 'businesses'. OS/2 was a premium over both and had no 'individual use' discount.

So... Windows ended up in homes. Because of support for games, it stayed in homes. Businesses realized that Windows had a massive self-trained install base, and went with it.

Did you know that Windows NT 3.51 and OS/2 3.0 shared a lot of binaries? You could have NT 3.51 or NT 4.0 address OS/2's HPFS file system through renaming a file called 'pinball' and activating it in the config.

Warp had one of the -best- user interfaces ever. RIP.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

A note for the Garnet on N800 portion of the thread...

So, from cold start to the contacts list or calendar... how long does it take and how many taps/buttons?

And yes, a native PIM would be VERY nice. Its been 3 years since the 770 came out and not one has been made that is a viable substitute for Palm's original 'Address' and 'Date Book' applications.

The lack of a PIM support on the device (Not requiring a network connection) IS hurting sales of this device. Storing contacts online is slower than a Rolodex.

Like it or not, PIM support isn't a nifty add on feature on a device like this, it is a pre-requisite. Without it, this is a toy. With it it becomes a tool.

I've been watching these forums for over a year looking for PIM and big card support. The big cards are here.

Is the Garnet emulation a viable PIM? I.e. is it faster to open and find a contact or calendar date in it than it would be in a Rolodex or Franklin Planner?

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Bleh. I just excitedy looked thru a large number of Palm apps that mostly looked dull. If I can hotsync news I'll be happy, but not much else looked appealing. I saw an rss readerr that looked better than what we have, with only a ten day free trial. Then when I tried to install it it needs java.

Bleh.

Re: Garnet VM Beta for Nokia Internet Tablet
 

In all fairness, Tim Martin isn't Tim Martin, but if you've never been an regular of comp.os.os2.advocacy, it'd take mightily long to explain.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Has anyone testing this with slingplayer application - palm OS?

Re: Garnet VM Beta for Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Ohhh, you mean the Warp City guy :)

Old times :)

Re: Garnet VM Beta for Nokia Internet Tablet
 

You should try out the vm first before calling it bog slow.
not slow at all.
Now with some descent feedback I'm pretty sure the individuals who
brung out this great port, will do their best to resolve that screen size issue.

But you should really give it a try before calling it bog slow.

Re: Garnet VM Beta for Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Aaahhhh.... (there appears to be no nostalgia emoticon available -- an unfortunate design oversight :D)

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

I had the immediatey-before-warp release, and the warp release. It was better than Windows 3.x. That's about all I can say.

I didn't really like it. What it had going for it was actual integration between the OS and the TCP/IP interface (which windows 3.x didn't). That gave it some sophistication and ease of use, for using the net, that Windows just didn't have, until Win95. Other than that, OS/2 never impressed me on any level.

Nextstep had a MUCH better UI. I could even run various windows apps on it (via SoftPC), as long as they weren't speed intensive (so, everything except games). Though, as various native apps became available, I'd stop using the windows equivalent ones (ex: the lighthouse suite of apps made me not need to use Word/Excel anymore).

And, once Win95 came out, there wasn't any more reason for me to use OS/2. Win95 was good enough for basic net connectivity, and ran more games (and usually ran them better) than OS/2. And that was really all I needed from that side of my hard drive. Everything else I'd do in Nextstep. Eventually I just gave my OS/2 partition over to more space for games for Windows.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Well, realize that this is actually part of ACCESS's ACCESS Linux Platform. They developed it to be part of a new Linux-based Palm OS (which is different from Palm's efforts to make a Linux-based Palm OS). ALP is built on GTK (among other things) and designed to run on ARM processors, so they probably didn't expend much energy packaging it into a DEB file.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

None. This is the emulator from ACCESS Linux Platform and was never deployed to a Palm device. It also lacks Palm's "improved" PIMs, etc. It's probably roughly equivalent to Palm OS 5.4.0? That's when they started calling Garnet, but before Palm started replacing the standard Date Book/Address Book/To-Do with their own Calendar/Contacts/Tasks.

Re: Garnet VM Beta for Nokia Internet Tablet
 

What makes you think I haven't? Because my opinion differs (I have tried it, BTW)?

Emulation will ALWAYS be slower than native, particularly on an this level ARM-based device.

Sorry, but I maintain that it is bog-slow in comparison to native apps.

R.
==

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

I still use a Palm, mostly for a personal finance software (licensed) which syncs with MS Money. I suck at keeping addresses up to date, so I don't care so much about that (in other words, it doesn't matter to me where I keep my out-dated addresses... ;) ), but not having personal finance software available is a big deal for me. My wife, who hates technology BTW, now has a Blackberry for work, a Palm for personal finance software (we both sync with MS Money), and a cell phone. I can't sell her on the IT because then she would have to carry yet another thing - that's just not gonna fly.

I agree porting software from Palm is bass-ackwards. But right now, in my opinion, the IT isn't an all-replacing device. I don't want it to be a phone, because I don't want the contract which would undoubtedly accompany it, but right now it can't replace my Palm.

Unless I overlooked personal finance software for the IT which syncs with MS Money?

Re: Garnet VM Beta for Nokia Internet Tablet
 

There's no emulation, it's a native ARM application - Palm has been using ARM for years so there's nothing to emulate except the 68K *REALLY* old Palm applications that haven't been updated for 6+ years. From what I've seen of the GarnetVM, on the N800 it's lightning fast and the supplied applications only use between 2% and 3% CPU in order to function (again, because there's no emulation involved - it's all native).

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

how bout Slingplayer??...can we run the Palm version on our n800s now?? that would ROCKKKK!.....anyone?

Thanx!

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

I would sure like to see people's favorite applications in this Garnet deal. I have looked fairly hard and haven't found one single program I thought was particularly cool.

Which isn't to say that I think this was a mistake. It's good propaganda to be able to say that the N-series runs more than 30,000 programs. Just don't mention that they are mostly crappy.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Is there any good games for PalmOS?

Re: Garnet VM Beta for Nokia Internet Tablet
 

what type of speeds are you wanting from this.
I'm not sure what you are running on your device.
but it is fast.
are you running it on the 770?
which device?

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

What about being able to launch the app as a (transparent) dragable window on the maemo desktop. that way it retains the same resolution. and doesn't look as bad as it does now with all that useless wasted space on each side.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Yes, there's lots of good games for PalmOS. There's the PC game ports like Doom/Doom 2 (and the mods), Duke3D, Heretic, Hexen, ShadowWarrior, Another World, etc. Also great emulators like ScummVM and ones for NES, SNES, Gameboy, Gameboy Color, Sega Genesis, Sega Gamegear, TurboGrafix 16 (PC Engine), Colecovision, Atari, and AtariST. Then there's the games TonyHawk, EDGE (real-time RPG), Warefare Inc. (real-time strategy), VillageSim, Trivial Pursuit, Bike or Die (simulation), Arvale (adventure), Acedior (adventure), Madden '05, plus lots and lots of puzzle games like Bejeweled and Zuma and sports games like golf, mini-golf, bowling and so on and so on. And that's just off the top of my head.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

There's a few audio apps I'd love to run, especially Microbe and Bhajis Loops:
http://www.chocopoolp.com/

Some games too.. unfortunately I've yet to get anything to actually run past their title screen, they usually just freeze or throw up an error :(

Re: Garnet VM Beta for Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Actually the vast majority of new applications are _still_ m68k, and they will run on old as well as new Palm devices. The exception is specialised, resource-hungry applications like TomTom and the like.
In addition to being all-Palm compatible, m68k apps are very small compared to arm apps. And they run fast still, the PACE m68k-to-ARM just-in-time compiler in PalmOS 5 is very good. I'm only running m68k apps in the GVM so far, another poster reported problems with armlet applications anyway.

Re: Garnet VM Beta for Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Thanks for the correction TA-t3 - I last used a Plam device (Tungsten T) in 2002 and tended to focus more on the multimedia functionality which as far as I can recall was ARM native (at the time it was a major selling point for software!) but I guess it's possible/likely that many of the more mundane apps would continue to be targeted at the m68K platform in order to ensure the widest degree of compatability.

As for the apps which ship with the GarnetVM (ie. date book, calendar etc.) I assume they're ARM native - it would seem odd for ACCESS to continue providing m68K applications! :)

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

That could well be the case, I also suspected this. They can presumably just recompile them and go, with possibly a few adjustments.

I also suspect that it's much easier to get the m68k applications to work with GVM (and maybe m68k applications are the _only_ 3party apps that are currently working, but the jury is out on this still) because m68k apps were always executed through the PACE emulator/just-in-time compiler in PalmOS5. Access would just have to modify PACE slightly so that it interfaces with the N800 Linux kernel system calls instead of the PalmOS kernel (there is actually a kernel down there in PalmOS 5, licensed from some company). Native ARM code, on the other hand, would be more tricky because compiled 3party ARM code would be geared against the PalmOS kernel and some complex intercepting would have to be done in order to get it to work correctly with the Linux kernel. Think getting Wine to work with native Windows applications on Linux, if you like. Same CPU, different operating system interface. Tricky.

I'm doing a lot of guesswork in the above, as of course I don't know what Access has actually been doing with the GVM. But this is my gut feeling as a developer.

Anyway, we'll learn more when we've all done a bit more testing.. :D

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Is anyone else having memory leak problems? (I am running OS2007 on an N800)

I am able to start up the VM and launch applications just fine, but when I quit out of the VM, my memory (128MB virtual enabled) is pegged at 100% and does not return to normal until I restart.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Can't say that I've noticed it in the way you have, maybe because I don't use extended virtual memory. But yesterday when I was trying out a whole bunch of applications it happened that launching apps would fail, I restarted GVM and it worked again. Could well be memory leak issues.

I just found out about portrait mode (turn off full-screen in the GVM settings, as described by thoughtfix), and then you get access to the rest of Hildon directly (without having to go through the home button). Here's a screenshot.

EDIT: Funny thing: load-applet-run is invisible in the screenshot..? (I used it to make the screenshot. It's supposed to be in the dark area between the wi-fi symbol and the battery)

Re: Garnet VM Beta for Nokia Internet Tablet
 

Slow or not slow, this is the ONLY thing I know that ported my 20 years of contacts seamlessly into the tablet without a hassle. A slow or not slow Garnet VM got the job done. Hands down. Now I can really put my Dell winCE to ebay.

bun

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

I don’t know if this is really a reflection of the VM speed, but I ran the palm benchmark app Speedy v6.4 from aldweb.com on both my Treo650 and my N800 (OS2007) and got the following results:

Treo: Calc Test=0.53, Mem Test=0.24, Graph Test=0.33 Total 1.10sec (~273MHz)
N800: Calc Test=0.73, Mem Test=0.09, Graph Test=0.82 Total 1.64sec (~183MHz)

From these results it looks like memory access on the VM is far faster than the Treo but calculation and graphics are a little slower. It would be cool if someone could run some comparison tests on an n800 running OS 2008 and on a 770. Again, I don’t know that these numbers mean anything, I have tried some of my favorite palm apps and they seem to run great in the VM. Like many of you I would really like to see a full-screen option but that aside I think this is an awesome app.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

I have some older Palm software whose registration was tied to a specific device. I was able to move the registration applet and registration db to an SD card along with the application using the old freeware app FileCaddy, and install all three on the Garnet VM. The app runs just like a registered copy should, and does not know it is now living in a different place.

Perhaps this issue is harder to resolve for different apps and different versions of Palm OS, but so far I have been able to get this to work for anything I had running on Palm OS 4 and OS 5.

This may violate the license agreement, particularly if it is specific about the app being for a single install. If you are concerned about the legality, I guess delete it from your old device. Many of the older Palm apps I have are no longer produced, supported, and many of the developers are now gone. So I am not sure who is left to gripe.

I'll end with a question: Am I missing something obvious? How do I get apps running on the VM to recognize the SD card slots? I am a writer, and I use a nifty, although primitive, device called the Alphsmart for word processing (it runs Palm OS 4). All of my documents are on cards.

Re: Run 30,000 Palm OS apps on your Nokia Internet Tablet
 

As far as I'm able to tell, the GVM can't see the SD cards. FileZ certainly can't, and then I doubt any other application can. Here's to hoping that it'll be fixed for a later beta. (It can't use BT directly either, and that at least is mentioned as a feature in the whitepaper. As it isn't there now it must mean they plan to implement it.)