Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Update: So, I unplugged the N800 from the charger and turned it off using the power button. I pulled the battery, left it out for 10 minutes, then put it back in. Using the power button, I turned it on, and this time got the blue line running across the bottom, etc. Now the battery indicator is back in the upper right corner, and it shows 1 day usage left.

I've currently got it plugged into the charger, where it seems to be doing its charging thing OK. I'm stumped as to why it turned itself off earlier today, and why the battery indicator went *poof*. (And of course, now I'm fretting that it's about to brick itself just like my first N800 did.)

Maybe this disappearing icon is of no significance, but I figured I might as well throw it out there in case it means something to somebody smarter than I am.

It is ALL software problem
 

In order to iron out wether hardware is also involved in the power on/off enigma, I did an experiment with my swithch, the on/off power switch, the one with a minus sign inside a circle.

In the last 5 days, I have used the on/off switch more than 100 times. I pressed it in a regular manner, not too long, not too hard, not in any particular manner, and then I would use all the functions in the menu except "Switch off!", i.e., I would do "Lock touch screen and keys, Normal mode, Lock device and wake the tablet" etc. Whenever I am in a meeting, waiting for reports, 'talking' with 'unimportant people', I would keep striking the on/off switch, bring up the menu and turn the tablet to sleep, wake up the tablet and turn it to sleep again. Again, I am NOT turning the tablet off, I did not use the "Switch off!" function. All together 100+ use of the on/off switch have been performed.




Result: Not even one failure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The tablet goes into sleep mode as it should and wakes up as it should.

Conclusion: the power on/off enigma is ALL software. At least that is the case of my N800.


bun

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

If it's a pure software problem, why has a hardware replacement changed my experience from not knowing when I'll be able to power back on to hitting the power button with impunity?

This is on freshly flashed systems, btw, nothing but the base software running on my 810.

Maybe the problems are different between the two devices?

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

What is a hardware replacement? You mean the Nokia repair bill or something like that reported a hardware replacement, like replace your switch, or physically replace something in your tablet?



bun

Re: It is ALL software problem
 

Based on your own text, that seems to be a non sequitur. You're saying that the switch works properly and the computer reacts to it, which is a far cry from ruling out hardware involvement in the actual problem.

That said, software may be able to work around fickle hardware, especially in cases like this one which exhibits various symptoms of being a race condition of some variety. Nokia's statement in the bug report confirms as much.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

sudo gainroot
halt

Fine for me

I've never encountered this problem.
Yet...

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Hi,

I have the same problem but I haven't been following this topic for a while, so I don't know if this is any news for anyone, but Nokia has admitted that it was a software (or at least software correctable) bug. It has something to do with the timings in the initialization code. That could also explain why only some of the devices are affected.

Here is the link to the bugtracker where the developpers accept it as a software bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2673

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

It was returned as faulty. I got a new replacement tablet. The replacement one works absolutely fine. As the software in use is identical (the fact is that software does not deteriorate and can be verified to be identical in different instances), the only change was the hardware. As I said in my earlier post, the replacement does have different markings on the main board underneath the battery.

Provably identical software running differently on two different (but supposedly functionally identical) hardware devices indicates that there is a fault in one of the hardware devices. Now, there may be a software workaround to make the device appear to work - which may or may not appear in the next OS release (sorry, but shutdown scripts do not count as a software fix as they are only usable when you are planning to restart the system and will not help in the occasion of a software crash or battery failure) - but that does not detract from the fact that there was a hardware fault that prevented it from functioning correctly with the software it was designed for.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Hi,

I've only been using an N800 (OS2008) for a few weeks and was quite distressed to get this problem in the first couple of days. After trying to avoid power offs for a while, I have now found that I cannot reproduce the problem. One thing I have done is to set a 'lock code'. Has anyone else found that using a 'lock code' affects power on problems.

Thanks,

Alan

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

An observation on my N810 for the on/off problem:

It seems to be worse when the battery is fully charged.
I can usually expect a failure just after I charge it but, if I discharge the battery a bit through use, it will turn on until I have to charge it again.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Just an update, received my replacement n810 yesterday from Buy.com and all is good! This device DOES NOT have any power-on issues!! :)

For those that are curious, the Buy.com replacement path is a bit lengthy. It took them about 10 days to process my return once they recieved it. It does look like their return center is backed-up quite a bit....probably due to Holiday returns...not n800/n810s.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

I received my N810 over the weekend. I turned it on and off at will, so far. While my N800 can only be turned on 50% of the time. Whether you have this power on problem or not, it is very very clear to the user, there is no ambiguity.


bun

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Hi Everyone,

I'm just curious. I got my n810 used from someone and I did not have any issues witht he power on/off issue until I started to play around with the system. (The N810 had the latest OS2008 on it already and everyhting worked fine and turned on/off fine) First I flashed KDE and everything went OK and then I decided I did not like KDE anymore so I flashed it back to OS2008 2007_52_2 release. That is when I started to notice the power on/off issue along with some other problems installing applications using the application manager. The AM would casue an internal application error and quit (This is another issue altogether).

Anyways, it seems that the latest ROM I updated from NOKIA might be the blame for all this crap happening.

Can anyone with a working N810 with no power on/off issue prove this to be the problem. Can someone reflash their N810 to the latest ROM and see if it is indeed the ROM that is giving us the problem?

Thanks,

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Congratulations cryptoboy, I did the same thing back in December and couldn't be happier. I updated my N800 to OS2008 and haven't looked back.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Alan,

I can only power up my N800 using the charger (or I can start it up once if I remove my battery for 24 hours). I changed my*lock code from the default and I still experience the problem. I'll continue to play around with locking it and unlocking to see if that does anything.

Thanks,

Tom

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Hi,

My N800 went back to normal when I deleleted over 10000+ files on my external slot SD.

I guess N800 scan flash memorry before power on.
Try two things before shutdown:
1.umount mmc1.
2.tar seperated files into 1 file as posible.

Hope it helps.:)

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

I was just playing around with my N810 and had some very worrying problems--the only problem I've experienced in the two months I've had it. I want to describe it and see if this is what lots of others have been experiencing.

I simply launched Notepad and before it loads, boom, a crash. Only it shows the startup screen (hands) before shutting down. Then, when trying to boot up again, it shows the "Nokia" startup screen (before the hands) for a few seconds, and then the tablet turns off again.

To successfully start the tablet again, I had to plug it into AC power and hold the button down a few times before it started up. And when it did boot, the startup screen and progress bar weren't quite normal (different timing, no animation in the progress bar).

Very worrying. This was the first ever problem I had with my N810 but it feels like my tablet is now somehow messed up. Just after that first crash, I had another crash when loading the list of repos in the app manager. The same sequence happened again: I see the Nokia screen; it shuts off; it won't boot up without AC.

Is what I experienced related to the "power on/off" enigma? Is the random crash upon loading an app part of it?

I did change my startup image and the progress bar not long ago, but the tablet had been working fine for a while so I don't know whether to suspect this as part of the problem.

Re: The power on/off enigma.. Work around using lock
 

I'm frustrated by these "power up drama" workarounds... Three minute rule? Doesn't work for me. Putting my tablet in the freezer? No thanks. Remove/reinstall the battery? Requires hours of time. Here's one that worked for me...

Here's my workaround:
First, change the default lock code via the control panel
Then, run these steps:
- Press power > Lock device
- Press "cancel" instead of entering your code
- You'll get a prompt "Shut down?", select yes.
- Now, give the power button a quick click.
- Wait >30 seconds then hold the power button down
- The LED light appears and it starts to boot
- It asks for the lock code again before fully booting.

This worked multiple times for me. Thanks Alan for getting me to poke around the lock mode.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

I think my n810 is DOA.

I unpacked it and plugged it in. Nokia flashed on the screen for a second and it said it was charging and the green light in the corner turned on. I waited a few minutes and then decided to see how it worked while it charged. After hitting the power button I never got a response from it again. No charging status (green light or LCD) nothing.

After seeing some scary threads about turning it on in this forum, I unplugged it and pulled the battery for 30 minutes. Still no effect.

Any suggestions or is it time to just return it?

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

A question....one boot-up most of the time my N800 shows the progress bar across the bottom of the screen, and then some times it doesn't.

Is the boot-up software a little flakey?

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

I think it is time to DEFINE what is called power on/off enigma.

Start from myself. My N800 will NOT do NO squat when it has the power on/off enigma, i.e. dead. There is no light, no hands, no animation or whatever, you can keep pressing the power button and pray, there is absolutely NO NOTHING. Period. That is my understanding of this power on/off enigma. My solution: plug it in and wait, it will always turn on after awhile, so far.....

Now, we start to see people posting, saying their N8x0 gets only blue light, or only hands, or hands and blue light or what-not combinations, I would NOT classify that as power on/off problems. Instead I would call that as boot up problems. And, if you see only partial booting, i.e., Nokia logo, or hands, and the tablet turns black, I have seen that before, no sweat, your battery is low. In that situation, you do not have boot up problem nor power on/off enigma. akd: what do you think? Or what is your tablets' symptoms?



bun

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

I had the same power on/off issue as Bun. The device did not respond to anyhting until I plugged the device in and waited....and waited....

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Agreed, plus that the only actually successful fix (i.e. one that isn't just a coincidence that it happened to turn on at around one of the times it was tried) for this described in this thread is to return the unit as faulty and get a working one.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

I do not think any sensible user will argue against sending it back as the ultimum solution. What I, or some of the users here, would like to avoid this pathway if possible and 'tough' it out till a software fix. For the time being, I have a reboot switch on my screen top, and have been able to use the tablet as normal as it can, and reboot anytime I would like to. So the power on/off does not bother me any more, except when I need to switch MMC cards, then I have to turn the tablet off and pray.


bun

Sorry if I haven't read this ENTIRE thread, but I was sure my N800 had h/w problems of a smilar nature, plus odd clicking noises, and flashing to OS2008 'healed' it all. Be sure you've tried that.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

I got mine back a few days ago from Buy.com. So far, so good! It does things the other one didn't do... like finish charging and tell me to unplug. :)

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

UPDATE - turned the IT off cause I didnt have my cell phone charger and it didn't turn on right away every time. What I said below does not apply to the problem.
================================================
disclaimer - I have no idea if what I did and solving the power on/off enigma are related.

My N810 had this problem until I performed the operating system update. Now it turns on every time. This update to OS2008 has to be done in red-pill mode.

I used to be afraid to turn it off as it would not power up immediately but now does every time.

MY OS is still OS2008 vers 2.2007.50-2

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

How to update the OS in red-pill mode......?

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Try this thread

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...+system+update

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Guys, I know a forum is not the best way to share information but as I have posted before, this power up thing has been identified as a software related bug by the developers. Look here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2673

They say that it's timing a problem in the OMAP initialization code. (OMAP is the processor, or more precisely the SoC in the tablets.) It seems that the timings are not totally off, so some devices work and some don't. They are not totally identical even if they are built from the same parts. Some blogger, for instance, had a hack, that was to put the device into the freezer for some time. If cold (I mean physically) the device would consistently turn on while on room temperature it would consistetnly NOT turn on. That actually helped the develpers to indentify the problem. Cooling the device changed some parameters of the electronics and the timing issue went away.

Now everyone can decide themself if they want to return it, which very probably results in getting one that works with the current software, or wait for a fix. For some of us not having the device for weeks is not really an option or at least is a worse compromise than waiting for a few more weeks or even months.

Another note to every user from the same thread on the bug tracker: there's no point in turning of the device for short periods of time. Short period means a few days. One of the developers noted that if teh device doesn't run any application (including desklets) that periodically wake up to do some work and the network and the screen are off then the device uses less energy during a few days than during the boot up process.

For those of us having this problem it would make life easier and more secure if there was a reboot option in the system menu that pops up when pushing the power button. I already had two cases when the device wouldn't react to anything but the power button and the screen lock latch (once it ran out of memory and in the other case the browser went nuts and eat all the processor time). As far as I know the system menu is modifiable by editing an XML file. I'll try to do it and then post the result here.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

I mean turning off :)

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Chalk up one more casualty in the power on/off enigma saga on my brand new N800 running OS2008 version 2.2007.50.2. Sometimes the power button would work only after a wait of 5-45 minutes; other times it would work as it should. I tried the recommended routines of removing the battery, trying it with and without the charger plugged in, etc. but they had no apparent effect.

What I did determine was that the problem is 100% correlated with temperature. If the unit is warm it will not boot; if the unit is cold it will boot. Period. I reproduced this behavior time and time again while driving in my car (the heater and air conditioners were convenient heat and cold sources). In normal usage, heat sources that would warm the N800 include: carrying the unit in a shirt pocket, charging it, and using it heavily. I believe that the reason that the power button usually starts working after a period of time is due to the unit cooling down after being inactive.

Given that the rumored software fix has not been released, nor that we even know for a fact that this problem is fixable in software, I'm returning the unit for a replacement (thanks, TigerDirect!). Hopefully it will not have the same problem.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Hallelujah! !!!!!!!!!!

Its taken 24 pages of this thread but we finally have a real answer.
I bow down before you with gratitude, crankybent.

Thanks to a fridge and a ziplock bag, my N800 has, for the first time ever, been able to turn off and immediately on again. So consider that an independent confirmation.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

:::

Umm, Where can I get a mobile Freezer..?

:::

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

I actually wrote it down a few pages before. It has been known for a few weeks, some other guy found this too, blogged it and that gave the hint to the developers that it was a timing bug in the startup (initialization) code. Nokia is aware of the bug and they are testing a fix. I would not recommend anyone to return their n8x0, at least not if it is expected to take weeks. If you bought it in the shop round the corner, then go ahead :). For more information and probably an announcement of the bugfix release you can follow the bug tracker: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2673

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Assuming the temperature factor, mine is exactly the reverse case. I mean, the problem exist when I turn my N800 off and wait a time enough to cold down the tablet. If I turn it off and, let's say I turn it on back in 15 minutes or so the unit acts absolutely normal.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

If the problem truly is temperature related, do you think Nokia derate the processor speed down again (from 400 MHz to 340 MHz) in an effort to make it run cooler?

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Nope, and its not the CPU temp. OS2008 (chinook) runs at the full 400, but that means the DSP runs slower, to synchronise.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

Nope. Some devices are OK, then some devices don't turn on at room temperature, no matter how long they have been off, but then they do turn on when chilled (around or below 0C). Electronics is like this, parameters change with temperature and it can introduce timing bugs. This is the exact phenomenon that makes PCs crash when they overheat (e.g. if you have poor cooling on your CPU and it gets hot in the summer).

I don't get this whole speculation thing. You've got the answer.

Re: The power on/off enigma..
 

I've got TWO N800 so far with similar power won't on problem.(The 1st one I got on Jan. 11 from an online store(NCIX), I sent it back, paid the shipping myself, got the 2nd one on Feb. 4). Every time I turn off the device, I cannot turn it back on unless I put it into a fridge or let it sit for more than 4 hours.

I don't understand why so many ppl having the similar problem yet no one make the complain to nokia. And simply sent your old one back can NOT solve the problem. You might end up getting another defective device just like me. And nokia canada really sucks. They don't even admit this existing problem. see what they said:
"we are unable to duplicate the problems you are experiencing with
your Nokia N800 Internet Tablet. Nokia does not comment on forums and
third party web site comments." Totally bureaucratic craps, and they asked me to send it to nokia US for repair, but they won't even send it back to canada after the fix because all n800 sold in canada are US model. I can only ask my friend in US to get it for me........
And I've contacted the retailer, they can only refund me for the device but I'll have to pay the shipping myself! I was so frustrated and angry and ............
I just checked the vote, out of 132 ppl, 55 have the similar power on problem, which is over 40%, yet nokia dosen't admit it!
So only if you guys all send a complain to nokia, it will take us customers seriously and try to find a fix quickly! And by the way, be careful about putting the device into a fridge, it'll void the warranty (I was told by a customer representative).

Or should we all try to file a group complain together?

By the way, for those considering buying N800, I highly recommend NOT to buy it, at least for now, it seems the whole batch(after 2008) is not right.