Why all these different Map programs?
 

I need a map of the programs for viewing maps.

In the N800 there is pre-installed "Map" and ability to download some maps. I never needed that, but tested it out yesterday, just for fun. For me, the major shortcoming was that it did not show street names until the zoom was focused on a very small area. I couldn't find a fix for that. But after downloading the East and West USA, I checked some cities and the street layout are pretty much up-to-date. I just can't see the street names.

Then in the maemo garage I noticed a program "maemo-mapper" is at the top of the download list. "Is that the same Map program?" I wondered. Apparently not. And there is something in the N800 ApplicationManager called "mapdownloader" that gets "maptile" maps by longitude and latitude. But it does not say what program the maptile would be for.

<rant>Generally, I've found programs for N800 to be badly labeled and their descriptions are not informative. If maemo-mapper said "this is a free/open competitor against the Map program from the Wayfinder company that is provided in the N800" it would have helped me a bit more.

Speaking of vague descriptions, note flite is described as a hacked up version of flite! If the description said "this is a synthesizer that converts written text into audible speech" think how much happier people would be :) And then, if fbReader would use flite to read out loud, we could dance in the street with joy!</rant>

PJ

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Well, you usually get what you pay for. Ranting about poor descriptions of free software seems just a tad juvenile to me, but maybe that's just me.

Maemo Mapper is much better than the built-in program, and you can get all sorts of maps, including satellite photos. Try different sources for the maps and see which you like the best. I like the VE street maps, myself. It's just not possible to fit all street names on large-scale maps, there just isn't room. You have to get to a scale which gives room for the street names. I think you'll find Google or VE maps do this better, though.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

He's absolutely right though. It's not limited to maemo of course, I hate seeing things like "KSplungeBlatt - SplungeBlatt for KDE".

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Dude - they have SplungeBlatt for KDE? I've been waiting for that for, like, forever!

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

We could use a really well-written description of all the programs.
When do you start?

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Cryptic names and descriptions for software seems to just be part of the linux culture. Its not a problem if you get in the habit of reading the forums and learn about the packages from reading the threads. Or you can do a google search on the name of the package and site:internettablettalk.com

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

He just did, first post. Read it again, and add his descriptions to the packages. Thanks!

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

:D

I've been trying to compile GSplungeBlatt but I'm missing libneedlenardlenoo.so.0

No suggestions?

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Well, that's description isn't accurate, since maemo mapper was available well before there was a map program bundled with the tablet, so maybe "maemo mapper is what the map application bundled with the tablet will be when it's grown up" ;)

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Yeah, shut your mouth, this is free stuff, take it and like it. Your opinion to maybe make things better and easier and also instill some concise less geeky attitude, is not needed.

btw does anyone know if there is an update to hildergranommgeltigat.deb.so for os2008?

:)

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Other guy says "Well, you usually get what you pay for. Ranting about poor descriptions of free software seems just a tad juvenile to me, but maybe that's just me."

I have to disagree with the your point that the poor descriptions are inherent in either free software or in Linux. I've been a Linux user for more than a decade and I've never seen program descriptions in the RedHat/Fedora community that are as bad as the descriptions for the Maemo/N800 tablet packages. Go read http://www.freshmeat.net and you very rarely see a description of the form "flite is a hacked-up version of flite" or such. Compare that with the description you see on the Fedora 8 Linux version of flite. Here's output from "rpm -qi flite"

Name : flite Relocations: (not relocatable)
Version : 1.3 Vendor: Fedora Project
Release : 8.fc7 Build Date: Tue 14 Nov 2006 11:57:48 AM CST
Install Date: Sat 15 Dec 2007 04:41:35 PM CST Build Host: hammer2.fedora.redhat.com
Group : Applications/Multimedia Source RPM: flite-1.3-8.fc7.src.rpm
Size : 10483102 License: BSD-style
Signature : DSA/SHA1, Fri 18 May 2007 01:22:00 PM CDT, Key ID b44269d04f2a6fd2
Packager : Fedora Project <http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla>
URL : http://fife.speech.cs.cmu.edu/flite/
Summary : Small, fast speech synthesis engine (text-to-speech)
Description :
Flite (festival-lite) is a small, fast run-time speech synthesis engine
developed at CMU and primarily designed for small embedded machines and/or large servers. Flite is designed as an alternative synthesis engine to Festival for voices built using the FestVox suite of voice building tools.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I find myself wondering why the flite debian package for Maemo does not have a similarly rich description.

Are the online descriptions in the Maemo repositories taken from the build script files (in RPM systems, these are called "spec" files, I don't know what Debian calls them) with which the deb packages are built? Or are they just "off the top of my head" lines that package owners type in when they register projects?

PJ

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Probably because the person who compiled flite for maemo didn't care to add a rich description.

I've spent hours and hours compiling tons of software for the tablets, by the time I have them running on my N800, I don't generally care to add a description. Of course the people who grab my packages know darn well what it is they're downloading, since I usually post them in response to a thread here in the forums :)

Descriptions are typically "off the top of my head", but sometimes the author will include a debian/control file which has a proper description, so no extra copy/paste/description writing is necessary.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

FWIW, here's the description from the desktop Debian flite package:
I don't know what others do, but when I port packages I include the original description as much as possible (I start out with the original debian package after all, with the original control file where this Description resides). I may change where necessary (e.g. not pointing to packages not available for the N800) and shorten it a bit, because the application manager will only show a limited number of lines.

What people put in the descriptions on the sites where packages resides I'm not sure. Possibly just some single line description, not in any way extracted from the package description itself.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

I agree with you - so why dont YOU also shut your damn big 'free stuffing' mouth and do a search ? This is free stuff, and it doesnt come with a how-to, so take it and like it. Don't ask others if there is an update - just go search like anyone else.

Learn to live by your own rules first before spewing meaningless venom and equally meaningless geeky attitude. It doesn't help anyone, least of all Linux and the free stuff.

Users have every right to ask for features, free or not - and the poster did ask very nicely. To get that age old - 'its free stuff' rant is now passe. Try a new line please.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

perhaps the reason so few people take the classes on sarcasm is because they're free and the class descriptions are so short. you basically have to use a dictionary to figure out what the classes cover.

by the way, hildergranommgeltigat.deb.so and libneedlenardlenoo.so.0 are still in beta, but the source codes are being distributed to those who attend the advanced sarcasm class.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Advanced sarcasm isn't available until you finish sense of humor 204. :D

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

So does that mean the sense-of-humor-impaired can never get sarcasm? Seems like discrimination to me. Any lawyers around?

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Hey, if you don't want to take the class, don't go trying to pull the discrimination card! Though you could try to clep out of the class. Or maybe talk to the instructor, maybe he'll wave the requirement. :D

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

in my day 'sents of humour' required an over-night spirtual desert excursion, with the further requirement that all acolites had to roll naked through the cactus. advanced sarcasm was indeed an easy class after that.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Man that sounds like trying to copulate with a porcupine! If you can do that without severely injuring your self, you can do anything!

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

...rolling naked through cacti...

I image everything must be easier afer that. :eek:

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Allright, I guess I need to take the desert excursion (cursing) class, sinnce I really missed that sarcasm bit in the original post where I got a little too serious. :D.

How could I miss that library thingie he put in there ? :confused:

Just goes to show - not to take these OS and free stuff wars too seriously.
But anyways, I will pass on that "cacti copulation" class, thank you.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

I've wondered about the other mapping programs also. (found this thread searching to the referenced flite). Which by the way I hadn't realized flite and festival were related (or the same or whatever).

Can Maemo Mapper create travel routes offline? I searched and actually found the manual, and the answer looks like no, they are made (somehow) online, downloaded and loaded. I might be reading it wrong or it might have changed since the documentation was written, <sarcasm>I know how these maemo programmers don't care about accurate documentation</sarcasm> [edit:Oh, I see the answer is no, and gets violent replies when asked AGAIN]

<Serious>I'll share some random information about sarcasm however. One of the differences between early-onset dementia and Alzheimer's, is Alzheimer's victim's get sarcasm. With dementia, you take things at literal face value. That is part of how/why old people tend to get 'taken' with driveway paving and roofing scams, they trust everybody. I think I got that from 60 second science podcast last month, but my memory's not that good.</Serious>

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

sarcastic rant/
It's interesting to me that the FOSS "community" has pockets in it that are very anti-community. "You get what you pay for". Does that mean FOSS is worthless? I bet there are a few developers who would take issue with that concept. So instead, FOSS is not worthless, but potential users are. So they better saddle up to Google and spend hours searching out descriptions, and explanations for those descriptions, because the packager didn't bother to take the time to throw in a useful description. Maybe I'm weirder than I think, but that sounds either selfish (I can be bothered with developing or packaging it, but not with providing a description so others might know what this is without reading forums and blogs and FAQs and stone tablets) or elitist(if you can't tell what it is by the title, you're clearly too stupid to benefit from installing it), or lazy (I coded it, I packaged it. Any you want a description too?? Do I look like a freaking developer to you???)
I know. We need a standard. A standard description for all maemo packages. Maemo can lead the way in better standardization of packages for all the FOSS projects of the world!

How about this for the first draft RFC?

Package Description -
Code, to do stuff, when executed properly on the appropriate hardware.

That covers every line of code ever written, or to be written, for anything. Now these poor over-worked, under/not paid and under-appreciated developers and packagers can spend their time doing things that will really benefit the FOSS community.

Boy that was simple to resolve. Whats wrong with you all that I had to do all the work and solve this for you?? /sarcastic rant

And for those of you wondering, I have the cacti scars to validate my BA in Sarcasm and the obligatory minor in Hilarity, which is an advanced study of humor.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

I like that; "potential users are [worthless]". :p

In most Free and Open Source Software this is usually the case.

Not because of the developers disdain but because the majority of FOSS was originally developed for one user only, the developer his or her own dang self. Potential users were not even a factor at the time of the original motivation. :)

The fact that it is in the public domain is because the developer chose to share it in the first place. This is a good thing.
Publishing documentation for tasks that one already knows is redundant. Perhaps a talented developer would rather spend his or her online time sharing more work that they ...developed. :rolleyes: (rolls eyes sarcastically)

Ideally if a FOSS is useful others will find it. If it is good, those who found it will promote it. And if enough people use it, a community will develop around it.

In the end, the community independently provides a good deal of the documentation and support for many good and worthy FOSS efforts.

...for example. >> Clicky <<

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

In your not a Linux user name will be "Cryptic".. It goes the same the other way Linux to Windows or Mac to anything...

Linux structure makes a lot of sense. If your just jumping in to the "culture" then take a quick look at what your getting into. Here's a great place to start http://linuxcommand.org/ also you if you like to N810 then you should try out a "live CD" on your laptop or desktop to look at an actual Linux Operating system. (I'm an Ubuntu Fan, this is also Debian based.

The other good read is an article on the conception of unix/Linux. I like the wikipedia entry on it.


Any way, not to hijack this thread (sorry about the above, I'm an avid linux user.) I've been trying to use mameo mapper and the base Maps program from Wayfinder and I'm not satisfied with either. Are there any side by side comparisons out here? Obviously the Nokia N810/N800 community is small, it's been hard to find. If I can't find it I'll have to do it myself :) but no point in repeating it, plus I would like to find something I like.

Last thing is there a running list of the map options?
This is what I've found so far;
* Wayfinder's Map -w/ Teleatlas
* Mameo Maps w/ open street (I know there's more map options, what are they?
* Navit (I just download but haven't used) http://www.tecdencia.net/navit/
* Roadmap, I've just read a few small things on this. I'm not sure if it's a separate piece of software or just some sort of plug-in/add-on.

Anyway curious to see what's out there.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

Back to the serious side of this question.
I for one would like to know if anyone has tried all of these mapping programs and written a comparison or if there is a website with a comparison. I finally got my GPS working last night and would like to know which one will fill my requirments the closest. I imagine that I am like many others in that I would like to fire up the mapping program, enter a destination and have my N810 tell me how to get there. I only need this once or twice a month, so do not really need a dedicated GPS, so it would be great to have my unit do this when I am not surfing while waiting on my kids....

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

I believe Maemo Mapper is the most mature, followed by Navit.
You can definitely meet your requirements with MM.
Before you leave home, download and save your route. See this post about my first trip.
I tried Navit once, but could not get it to display the map I downloaded. I probably did something wrong.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

I just went for the few extra $ and bought a license for the "map" application.
Besides the fact it has (as an EU user living in a damn small country) the nasty idea that you need to change from maps at country boarders (you cannot go from Belgium to France on one map for example) it works pretty good.
If you can score on of the old packages (Nokia N-N880 Navigation Kit N800) out there for a N800 with a bluetooth mouse included it's even cheaper - they sell for less (I payed 60 €) than the price of a license, you get a '"okay" gps mouse, a car holder, car charger and you can use the serial for 3 year routing.

The serial (and gps) work also on the N810 by the way.... carholder will not fit 100% as it's made for the N800.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

So whats the most user friendly (not having to edit code, and easy to navigate the menus) FREE On the fly gps application that will run on diablo?

Navit looks good but I have no idea what I'm doing outside of the gui. Maemo mapper looks good as well but I need to be able to change my route on the fly w/out a internet connection. So what are my options?

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

I don't think there are any choices, you can pay for on the fly or have MM for free but I don't think there is a free alternative that can do reroutes on the fly.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

If you can get Navit to work (I couldn't), that would be your best bet.
MM can store routes. So if you know you need to travel from PointA to PointB at some time in the future, you can save this route. When you're ready to travel to PointB, just load the route at PointA, and you have instant directions. You can store multiple routes. Unless you have a totally random schedule, this can work for you.

Re: Why all these different Map programs?
 

can you add poi's in maemo mapper like open wifi hotspots for a whole city? then when my blip gets near the other blip i'll park and wifi it up...