Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Putative is the right word, Roger. ;) Still no evidence that the N810 variant pictured was anything other than a black version.

Also, I can't see a future N800 variant with a product ID greater than N809 at the highest. Of course, that's my opinion based on experience and not Nokia canon.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

OP's comments are not BS - this is standard modern pricing practice across almost all businesses. Pick up the 'Undercover Economist' next time you are in a bookstore. It will save you money (lots) if you know the game that retailers and manufacturers play these days.

For example, you don't think that sales are really sales these days do you? They are just another technique to sell the same thing to different people at different prices. When Nokia pushed the N800s through the retail chain for an end price of $200 they were trying to find everybody who was not prepared to pay $350 and sell them something for a small mark-up. But they were not going to let that market window stay open for long because they still wanted to sell them for more $ to folks who are prepared to pay. Every salesman's dream is to find the buyer's walk away price and then offer it for 50c less. At one time Amazon actually tried to price their products based on individual buyer profiles.

We all think that Nokia Marketing are stupid ( and I am sure that they like that - a lot), but I think that we are underestimating them - at least on pricing strategy. Seems to me that they are doing pretty well. They are not as good as Apple at this game, but they are pretty good.

I would be very surprised if they don't release something in the $200 range.

What does Steve Jobs do? Tweak the product to make it better and reduce the price a bit. Lean on his suppliers until they squeal. Find new customers with the price and, the masterstroke, get existing customers to buy another unit with just a few more cheap to add features.

I could be wrong, but I would wager a small amount that something like this will happen.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

I am a bit puzzled by the comments on this thread. Everybody seems to be fighting over whether Nokia should or should not keep 2 tablets on the market.

That's interesting, and I have my own opinion on this (yes, they should), but that is missing the point.

The point is that the N800 already disappeared from various Nokias web sites. Go back to the first post in the thread and check if you do not believe me. Nokia said that they wanted to keep two products in parallel at different price points, but they don't.

And I am not talking about anonymous web merchants choosing not to keep the N800 on inventory, I am talking about Nokia direct shops. In various countries, Nokia already took the N800 out of their product line themselves. That's a fact.

So?

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

"how many 'normal' people do you know have SDHCs, compared to people who have miniSDs?"

I think that many people have different kinds of memory for their cameras, and they go buy the kind required by the camera. I don't think that the kind of people who buy x kind of memory splits among "normal" and "abnormal" people. I don't think that sdhc memory is harder to use than other kinds of memory in any way, as your statement implies.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

...this happened before, gloom and doom and the demise of the N800 was predicted, and-- it's still selling, elsewhere.

Maybe I need to qualify an earlier statement with which you seem to quibble: "don't confuse the removal of the N800 from availability in certain areas with the death of the device itself."

There are numerous reasons why a manufacturer or distributer may want to pull out of a certain area or areas. I won't speculate for obvious reasons but I'm sure many here have no trouble figuring out what those may be.

But even with that said-- the point that was made about refreshing the N800 is not without merit in and of itself. So....?

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

So the N800 is in the process of being discontinued. It is a dead parrot.

I think the Chatterati have accepted that to be the case, so now we having fun blaming Nokia and/or speculating on the future.

This is SOP here isn't it?

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

^ troublemaker :p

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

- different market, IMHO... i don't want wireless-for-pay *anything* in my NIT... i certainly hope Nokia does not pursue this avenue...

- and the reason i didn't get an 810? i already have a GPS and never use it... the slide-out keyboard wasn't enough to make me pop for 2X the price (an Apple BT keyboard works well enough for me), and the 810 is a *downgrade* with only one slot - and a miniSD at that!

- my US$0.03 (adjusted for inflation)

:-)

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

My turn for $.03 ...

I don't think we need to worry so much about whether or not the N800 is being discontinued anyway. I'm now seeing OS2008 available (hack version) for the N770... I see THAT as a much more significant indication that my N800 will be useful for quite some time. Whenever an 820 or 830 comes out, it seems to me that my N800 will continue to trundle along with the pack. Thank you, Nokia!

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Exactly. And like I said, community support may carry old products even further, providing that
1) drivers are free
2) community is large enough
Community grows all the time, and hopefully Nokia sees that free drivers are in its own interest (because prolonged community support and vibrant after market are actual selling points for new devices). I really want to see a OpenEmbedded-based OS (or something) being the de facto OS for 770 in the future.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Basically you summarized my exact initial thought while reading this thread. If they have indeed discontinued the line (the fire sale single day blow outs a few weeks back were a sign something was in the wind) but if the N800 is done then it is only because the new version of that same device is due out in very short order. Nokia owes both it's retailers and stockholders to sell off as much old stock as possible prior to announcing a new model. I could easily see a new model N900(?), keeping with the Nx00 = no keyboard x 2 memory slots theme, and announced by mid-spring. That would seem very logical.

What concerns me is there are still very few applications for the N8x0. And when I bought into the product it was with the idea it was relatively new, had a new OS and developers needed more time to catch-up. Discontinuing a product before it is even very useful is just very distasteful...especially if it means less resources will be dedicated to improving the applications out there for that platform/device.

BTW, I think, given Sprint's current shakey financial position and the lack of rollout for their WiMax (whatever they finally call it) so it's really too early for a WiMax tablet device. There just is not enough market penetration of the technology to make it viable anytime soon...unless Sprint has managed to completely hide construction and sub-letting of towers for the technology only to spring it on the US tomorrow saying "...LOOK we have WiMax EVERYWHERE NOW..." nope that is very unlikely. Which I would take to mean if there is a new device with that connectivity, it's not hitting the shelves anytime soon.

How embarrasing that would be for Nokia to produce a million units then have Sprint fold up their card table and go with at Burger King??? ;)

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

I really have difficulties understanding what you mean: "the demise of the N800 was predicted, and-- it's still selling, elsewhere". Or maybe you don't understand what I am saying. I am not saying that the N800 will not be supported: obviously, the N800 and N810 hardware are sufficiently similar so that the N800 software can be expected to be maintained along the N810. I am simply saying that it looks like Nokia will not keep a 250€ tablet next to a 450€ tablet in their product line.

Now, maybe you mean that the 250€ tablet may be taken off the product line in Europe, but will be kept somewhere else, presumably because of differences in market. If this is what you mean, I do not agree. The tablets are global products, and can easily be ordered across borders.

As I said, I would love it if Nokia would keep the two devices on production, not because I am afraid that the N800 will "die", but because I believe that the two devices are sufficiently different to justify keeping the two lines going.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Well, as I understand it, it's currently off the product line (at least temporarily, perhaps permanently) in Europe, and it is still available on their US website (Just checked, still there at $300). So if this is the end of the N800 in Europe, then it is, in point of fact, being "kept somewhere else, presumably because of differences in market." Don't know for how long, but the possibility of gray market sales has not generally stopped companies from varying their product offering by geographic market, so it's possible.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Very sound arguments have been made in this thread about why Nokia will indeed likely always have at least 2 price points available, so it would be silly for me to rehash them. If you disagree, well, you're free to be as wrong as you like. ;)

Oh, and don't assume the N810 will always sell for the current price. Did the price stay the same for the N800?

As for the tablets being global products, well, technically yes they are. Now: ask some of the posters here about their experiences ordering them across borders. Not as simple as you might think. And don't presume you've covered all the bases in your singular assumption of my rationale-- you haven't. But again, it's not something I should discuss in further detail in a public forum.

And ironically, you make everyone's argument for them in your last statement. If you're capable of seeing that wisdom, don't you imagine we Nokia folks are, too?

EDIT: I wish I could share with you guys more of what's being kicked around inside Nokia's walls. I really, really do. It's terribly frustrating to read some comments here and then bite my lip. Suffice to say that while much negativity may be warranted due to the lack of communication from Nokia, the silence does NOT reflect inactivity.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Tex, if you are implying there will be a suite of different tablet versions available soon, I'd vote for a premium version with a SIRFIII GPS chip and the best of everything else, processor, memory, etc. I'm willing to pay more than a little bit extra for the funnest toy available! :D

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Eh, nothing that concrete. :p

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

You live for this don't you:D

This will go on for several weeks, sigh...

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Nah. I'll shut up now. Except to say you never know-- I could be wrong about the stuff I'm guessing on. I just doubt it.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Well this has certainly been an interesting and quite odd topic to read though as the posts are all over the map... but I'd be inclined to believe (and unlike some in here I don't have any insider knowledge, just my personal business experience) that the reason they're not in the European shops/have been firesold off is simply to clear stock. Could be anything from a new tablet (maybe, but I doubt it considering they N810 JUST got released) to a simple upgrade. I mean, come on, who really thought they were going to keep selling N800s loaded with OS 2007 on them guys?... Could be as simple as "get rid of the existing stock at a good price to garnish interest in the product, then relaunch with new software and targeted marketing".

Of course the other thing to keep in mind is that damn infamous WiMax that everyone brings up from time to time... Europe is a far better market to do a launch of a WiMax product in than North America for example... lol you guys think Verizon and Sprint are annoying, try dealing with Bell Canada or Telus (lol half the time you can't even threaten to switch to another carrier 'cause there isn't one that gives you coverage!).

The bottom line though would be that Nokia knows they've been ahead of the game with these ITs for a while now; this year all the buzz is about more "touch screen portable devices", so they've probably got something up their sleeves to keep themselves ahead of the curve. However, no intelligent company willingly drops a profitable product until it becomes blatently unprofitable, and the sales numbers of N800s (along with recent popularity) should be proof enough that there's a future here...

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

And in the UK. I said so in the first post. Now the question is: "are they still keeping the line in the US or does this just mean that they have not cleared the complete stock?". Just a week ago, it was still on stock on the German site. Now, it is not just "out of stock", it is just plain gone. On the French Nokia site, they write, plain as day: "hurry up, last pieces".



I agree with the arguments, that is not the problem. I note that Nokia does not keep 2 tablets at a different price point, at least in Europe.

It is a bit peculiar to discuss "why they will have 2 price points" when they don't, isn't it?


For the most part of its life: yes.


Been there, done that myself. Pretty simple.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Hi folks --

Does anyone actually know for a fact that the 800 is discontinued? Or is this just speculation and rumor?

I'm new here -- sorry, don't mean to start off by confronting anyone! I've been shopping for a pocket computer for a while, and I've pretty much settled on the N800. I was planning to wait a bit longer to buy one, so if they have indeed been discontinued, then that makes a difference to me.

I guess I fall in the "geek" category. But I think the 800 is a better deal in some ways. It seems to me, the only advantages of the 810 are the keyboard and GPS; and from what I hear, neither one is all that great. Looking at the price difference, you can get an N800 and a nice BT keyboard and GPS, for less that the cost of an N810. The 810's dinky keyboard isn't much better than an on-screen keyboard; for any lengthy typing, I don't want to have to use a shift key to get to the digits. Also, the 800 has two full-size SD sockets, compared to the 810's one miniSD.

So, does anyone here have a contact at Nokia, or maybe a distributor or journalist who has the straight story?

Thanks --

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

What I meant was -- how many people (who are not geeks) go out with the specific intention of buying an SDHC. As you say, most people go out and buy a 'card' for their digital camera, but few consumers actually know or care about what SDHC is, as long as the 'card' works. That was my point.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

FWIW, the Newton community in NewtonTalk is still pretty much alive and kicking, even though the Newton got 'Jobbed' back in 1998 - 10 years ago.

I've noticed that so many people go into a doom-and-gloom mode when they hear that the N800 may be discontinued. No idea why, since it doesn't change the existing functionality of the N800 today. I going to call this the 'USR Syndrome', as in how USR was 'controlling' the NS-5 robots from a central source. Symptoms of suffers of USR Syndrome basicially have it stuck in their heads somewhere that these devices stop working once they are discontinued. Interestingly enough, sufferers of USR Syndrome also display huge emotion and mental issues grasping with the circle of life (and death) :P :D

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Sure, if you use a fairly loose definition of "most".

The N800 was released on January 8th, 2007 at $399 in the US.

Assuming we define life to be the period from then until the start of this topic on February 24th, 2008*, then the N800 lasted for about 415 days.

The initial price drops from $399 into the $350 range occurring around April, assuming exclude this price drop from the calculations, the next major price drop was at the end of August to the $250 range.

The first major drop occurred approximately 260 days from release.

260/415 = ~63%

Thus, N800 was at or near its release-day price point for only about 60% of its total lifetime.

For comparison, the 770 was released on November 14th, 2005 in the US, and the first big price drops occurred around June 2006. Around 230 days.

Applying this historical data to the N810, it seems likely that N810's big price-drops should occur sometime around July. In my opinion, historical data doesn't have a particularly large amount of meaning in this context, though. Especially considering the impending introduction of the WiMAX tablet and the not-really-an-update nature of the N810 release.†

*This date is based on the starting date of this thread, and really has no basis in reality. I only used what I had to work with. :p

†We're still due for a real generational upgrade, which the WiMAX tablet seems unlikely to provide (judging by the timing and the RX-48 product code).

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

In the US you are certainly right, but in Europe it was a different story. In France for example the price didn't budge one cent until the N810 was announced.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Trust me, back in 1998, electronic devices were practically obsolete 2 months out the door :) Look at the Palm devices, and the Apple Newton 2000/2100.

But I digress -- you're right about having multiple models not hurting shareholders. Product differentiation allows for greater reach and hence higher revenues, although this could be offset by the high cost of marketing vs the margins that Nokia has to make to make this a profitable product line.

Yes, this is what I meant. I forgot the price cuts in the US.

All what we know is that the N800 disappeared from various shops. Those who might know more are not allowed to talk.

About the N810: I thought the same as you do until I got a N810. Now, I appreciate the GPS (which actually works quite well), the transflexive screen, the keyboard (especially when using the command line), the smaller form factor. I miss the 2 slots, maybe we should have had 2 micro-SD slots instead of the obsolete mini-SD. Sandisk just announced a 12GB micro-SD.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

1. don't wait too long

2. what difference?

- the n800 is a 'classic' piece of engineering, IMHO... i'd be very surprised to see any improvement on functionality in a future device (but, eh, who knows, right?)

:-)

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Totally agree.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

There are 2 price points in some regions. Just because it isn't true in all regions doesn't obviate the situation in others.

To reuse one of your responses: So?

Did you perhaps misunderstand my statement? I suggested you ask OTHER posters. Your experience is not one size fits all. Besides, it doesn't address warranty issues, which are important to many.

Anyway, you're obviously trolling or arguing merely for the sake of arguing. I don't see a need to respond to anything further unless you elect to employ a little intellectual honesty.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

And the minor price drops began almost immediately, at least in the U.S. I resisted purchasing my N800 only until February 7, 2007--a little less than a week after TigerDirect began fluctuating their pricing on the tablet between $399.99 and $369.99.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

When i searched n800 couple weeks ago, it was almost mission impossible.

In finland there was alltogether 0 pcs of new n800:s at all webshops, nokia website(nseries.com buy - link for n800 redirects to buy n810.), local resellers, teleoperators and so on.. finally found out after hours of googling that expansys had french models (who needs the manual anywhay ;) ) so i ordered there.

Excuse me? Trolling? I am citing facts that anyone can check: the N800 has been taken off numerous European Nokia shops. I think it is perfectly reasonable to infer that production has stopped and that shops still selling it in other countries are only selling remaining inventory.

And I don't see how this discussion could possibly be trolling. I, for example, will make very different buying decisions whether Nokia is keeping a product line around 200$ price point or whether one needs double that amount of money. I need another two tablets for my family. In the latter case, I need to try to find them on the second hand market or order them in the US before prices for second hand N800s go back to 300$. I suppose that I am not the only one who needs to plan their purchases, so I suppose that this discussion is of some use to other forum members.

Now, YOU are the one repeatitively posting nebulous theories that the N800 is not discontinued, and that Nokia will maintain two different devices on offer at different price points. Those theories do not appear to be based on verifiable facts. They may be based on insider information which you are not in a position to disclose, but if YOU know something that the general public does not know, that does not make ME a troll.

Anyway, to me this discussion has reached an end. I told what I knew, and I have nothing more to add. And the next time I'll notice something, I'll keep it for myself.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Points completely missed. My apologies if I didn't make them clear enough.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?...It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice....Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out."

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Well, Tex, I must admit it's true. When the N810 came out you were quite affirmative that the N800 would continue its career in parallel (which sounded logical and altogether good news). Jerome is saying that it's becoming very difficult to come by in Europe, with confirmation from Finland and elsewhere. And now you're saying... well, I'm not quite sure what you're saying anymore :-)

PS: it still *seems* to be available from the French Nokia shop - only for 300€, which is like 450USD, ya know ?... :-)

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

All this newbie has to contribute to this is that Sharp only kept one model of clamshell Zaurii on the production line at a time; and the Z is closer to the N-series than any cellphone. Of course Sharp was only aiming at the Japanese salaryman market after the 5500 and the 6000. And their internet capability was an afterthought on an electronic dictionary/business tool.

I must say I hope Nokia doesn't follow in Sharp's footsteps all the way to the end!

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Well, the local Walmart has an entire section of a display with a good dozen different brands & sized SD & SDHC cards up to 4gb. Whatever that means.

Re: Nokia N800 discontinued?
 

Correct, but you're missing my point. People like you and me (okay, maybe it's just me) go out and say, I need an SDHC.

The average Joe buys a digital camera and says, hey I need a memory card for my camera. Yes, Walmart appeals to the average Joe, but my point is that Joe wouldn't have the faintest clue about the difference between a 4GB SDHC and a 4GB SD card.

Another reason why Nokia may have gone with the miniSDHC card could be due to the fact that most of their phone models today use miniSDHC card readers. I'm guessing here that they found themselves with a LOT of leftover SD card readers from the old 7710/Communicator days and decided to put it to good use. Either that or Nokia decided that the N800 was going to be used by media junkies who would try to fit 2 to days worth of music and movies for on-the-go-entertainment