n810.. a month later
 

I've now been playing with my n810 for a full month and I seriously feel like a beta tester.

• I have to backup, reformat, and reinstall the internal filesystem due to a corruption bug. How this bug managed to get into shipping units baffles me. The fix is via the command line and there is no official support for this bug/fix.
• Out of the box Application Manager lists Maps as having updates, but is unable to actually install it.
• Addressbook: Can't handle some basic vcard syntax so it's impossible to import an extract of my Mac addressbook.
• Default email client inoperable with major providers like gmail imap
• Built-in IM unable to do some very basic operations like status messages
• Interface is inconsistent at best
• Not finger friendly
• WiFi performance is marginal to poor with real world performance between 300 and 500 kB/s.
• WiFI will not auto-connect to WPA-Enterprise networks, I have to manually reselect them every time. My unit works with open, WEP, and WPA-PSK networks without a hitch.
• GPS and camera... I don't think I need to elaborate on this one

Those are issues solely with the stock firmware from Nokia. Many people here have suggestions for dealing with and working around these faults in the stock software, so I'll cover them here.

• Pidgin/RTcomm beta: Pidgin on maemo development appears to have ceased as bugs that I found almost a year ago are still unfixed. While a little tricky to install RTcomm beta has been the most stable add-on that I have used to date. That being said it's screwed up my address book on more than one occasion as well as having other major issues which have been reported.
• Modest/Claws: Modest, while mostly functional with gmail, has not seen a stable release since I received my unit. I have not yet tried claws because it doesn't appear finger friendly.
• App Manager: Once again it's refusing to install/update applications because of a repository conflict.

There are a few bright spots in all of this. The browsing is excellent most of the time with only the occasional crash. The built in SIP client works very well, better than many desktop tools I have used. I will probably keep the unit for now, but the issues that the n810 has have been disappointing.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Could'nt agree more.

The only other thing i want to mention is that....... this device has no competitor.....thats the reason nokia is going easy on it.

I cant understand why nokia is squandering the wonderful advantage it had by coming first to the platform. Surely this platform has a wonderful future and nokia is not taking it as seriously as it should. I personally think cell phones have almost come to the brink of thier development. I think more and more people will want miniature computers which will include the ability to call.
Nokia should just put a lot of effort here ........ The current effort is surely lacking.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

For me it was enough to copy all the data, format using file manager and put all the data back. No command line needed as you say (it was only needed of you wanted to check if you have this problem).
Yes, I confirm that this bug is critical and should not happen and that we were not informed about this problem properly.
I could list more problems we had: repository downloads problem for instance. But still this device has little or no competition when it comes to browsing the Internet. Yes, iPhone with it's fantastic interface for Safari is good here, but still you have to sacrifice ad-blocking and flash. I will stay with my n810 for some time and will continue using my Windows Mobile PDA as HSDPA modem for my Nokia.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

I got my Dell Axim X30 when they first came out with wm2003se and the experience was not too different; although Dell was working more agressively to fix the problems. it was the people sharing information on Aximsite.com forums (very much like this forum) that made it work. It took about 6-8 months to stabilize and I don't think I ever had any more problems with the OS. I am wondering if the new wimax version will work any better in the performance department; I have about a week left to return this unit and get my money back ...

Re: n810.. a month later
 

iPhone.
There. It's been said!

;-)

Re: n810.. a month later
 

As far as I can tell from the online forums, user experiences with WinMobile still tend to be not too different. At least with Maemo you can tweak the thing.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Here we go again...though I agree with you in alot of ways...

Re: n810.. a month later
 

I wrote my post to exclude any comparisons with any other tablets. I wanted to concentrate on the "core functionality" only.

So, please, let's try to keep the discussion on the quality of this base software only.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Why don't those of you who don't like your tablets sell them?

Re: n810.. a month later
 

What does that have anything to do with Nokia releasing beta quality software for an expensive piece of consumer electronics?

I have stopped using the unit for mail since it's basically non-functional as well as IM since it's quirky. The browser and SIP calling are the only reason I put up with the poor quality of the rest of the unit.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

I'm using my N810 for just about two weeks, and I also can say few words. First of all, browsing is really great, and I'm enjoying the fact that finally some mobile device has a fully featured web browser. However browser get very slow at times, particularly when opening heavy pages, or loaded with many Web 2.0 features.

WiFi is quite good. I was actually really surprised that N810 picks up my work wireless network already at the car park, while other devices I have (particularly those from HTC) are having trouble with WiFi reception just 1-2 floors down.

GPS - I was really positively surprised with it. I though it would be rubbish initially, as SirfStar III chipsets seem to be the best on GPS-market, but then I've realised it works really well! The only issue is that it takes few minutes sometimes to get a fix from satellites, but other than that I can say GPS is quite neat.

Built-in IM and VoIP/SIP clients - both are nice and working well, however I also miss the ability of setting custom status messages.

Screen - it's just brilliant! 800x480 resolution on 4" screen makes everything perfectly crisp and clear! Ability to read in sunlight is also great.

Command line / root / ssh access - as a Linux user, I'm happy to have another Linux device on me, that I know I can tweak and access just like my day-to-day laptop. It's just fun ;)


However, N810 is not perfect device. It's somewhat true that N810 users are like beta testers. My concerns are:

Email client - built-in one is just rubbish. Slow and doesn't work with IMAP folders at all. Interface not too friendly. Externally installed Modest seems to be reasonable alternative, and I would almost liked it, only if it supported messages with non-latin1 characters better. Claws - feature-packed, but totally user and finger non-friendly, with odd interface. :(

SyncML support - literally none. Old-school phones like Ericsson T39m have it, but not the super-duper N810. :(

PIM - again, nothing. OK, there is GPE package, which is quite nice, but... how the hell I can synchronise it with my stuff at http://mobical.net ?? -> hence it's rather unusable for me.

Form factor - while generally I like N810's form factor and looks, I dislike the way hardware keys are positioned. There is virtually no way of operating the device without actually sliding out the keyboard, just in order to reach the joypad. N800 maybe was bulkier, but also much better in terms of keypad usability.

Keyboard - as I speak about keys, I was a little disappointed with hardware qwerty keyboard. It has really soft 'click', which leads to typing the same letter twice quite often. Hardware keyboard was the main reason for me to switch from N800 to N810..

General performance - I often experience general sluggishness of the tablet, apps are loaded rather slow etc. I don't think putting 400MHz CPU into device like that was wise, however I can understand it plays better with battery life...


As I probably won't be able to list all things I like or dislike in N810, in general I must say I'm happy with it. I feel sometimes like beta tester, but overall I'm pretty much used to it, as most of us probably know how it is sometimes using Linux as primary OS. ;)

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Just use PINE, for God's sake...

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Haha.. ha ... please tell me that was meant to be an April fools joke?

Re: n810.. a month later
 

What's wrong with pine? It's a great email client :)

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Almost forgot about one more thing - lack of A2DP profile support. :(

Re: n810.. a month later
 

I find threads like this the most useful for IT future-related discussion.

Well, I get really confused/upset (dont know the english word now) when I see a lot of comments in a lot of technology-related sites asking things like this:

― “Does it have PIM software?”
― “Does it make phone calls?”

These are potential IT owners who won’t but it. In the first case, I believe is a really easy issue to solve. And I talk about out-of-the-box worki
g, PC compatible PIM, not GPE (it well could be it, not at the moment tough).

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Meh, you can use A2DP right now, it's just not well optimized so don't expect good battery life or any sort of multitasking ability.

We will get official A2DP support when it's optimized enough to be usable.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Yeah... the first one was great. But now it's become a recurring nightmare. It's like those high school essays that are posted for public use and the kids doctor a word or two to make it "unique". The only thing worse would be a thread of photocopied butts... :p

Seriously, these points are all well-taken not only by frustrated purchasers but by the ones who can correct it. Unfortunately, the polishing job has taken longer than many would like. That doesn't mean it isn't happening. Heck, anyone who's lived through OS2005-OS2006-OS2007-OS2008 and acknowledges the many positives knows exactly what I mean.

You may now continue with your regularly-scheduled ranting. :D

Re: n810.. a month later
 

If discussing the weaknesses of the flawless/perfect as-it-is-now ITs is a rant, well, there should be more rants in this forum. :D

EDIT: I don't even use PIM. But as a Nokia fan, or something like this, I wish Nokia could take the ITs a level up. And for this, I believe it should at least listen to potential consumers...

Re: n810.. a month later
 

I would give it a try anyway, as I'm keen to use it in my car with A2DP car player, when I have N810 connected to the charger all the time.

How to do it? Is using Kagu (?) player the only way, as I've found somewhere as an solution?

What do you mean by 'we'? Sorry for ignorance, but I'm quite fresh in tablet world.. Are you working for Nokia? :]

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Erm, we "the tablet community".

No, I do not work for Nokia.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

what's odd about it in your opinion?

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Seems like good points all around but I agree with the posters who say it is a recurring nightmare. I am all for voicing your opinion but unfortunately I guess we have heard it all before and repeating the same thing CLUTTERS up the forum. Why not just put it in the official thread for impressions found here

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ad.php?t=12004

The duplication of essentially the SAME topic over and over again is not needed, there is a very good google search linked from the front page of the forum found here

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=0059812...%3Awt9tjwf2kd4

Re: n810.. a month later
 

In each of these threads what you just said was said. Well, I just wanted to give my contribution, and that's it. :)

Re: n810.. a month later
 

I have no problem with people voicing opinions but its simply easier to read a forum where you know where to go for things. Want to talk about an App go to the official app thread, want to post an N810 impression goto the N810 thread. I am going to pitch up in every post like this and say the same thing and hopefully influence the culture of doing that.

If Nokia want to see what people think about their product they will go to the "Official Impressions" thread and read and trust me, you know that Nokia people are reading those impressions EVERY DAY.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Ah, you refer to that 987234642 pages thread? Ok.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Before *you* brought it up neither of those were topic of discussion. My post specifically ignored any functionality that is not delivered out of the box for that exact reason.

Things like the default mail client ceasing to function ( ie crashing before the UI appears ) once gmail is setup is unacceptable for a shipping software release.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Quick examples:
When I compose the message, I'd like to get rid of that section with To/Cc/Subject/Attachement fields from the top, as it takes quite a lot of screen space. Also, it seems to jump from top to bottom of the screen when I start typing a message, without a good reason. I didn't find a way to switch it off.

Folders listing, which is most annoying imho. I have example folder structure like this:

AccountName
-> INBOX
--> Folder1
--> Folder2

Now, when I have focus over AccountName and tap it with the finger, it opens a window with message list, which is obviously empty - because it's not a folder, but account. But when I click on it with center joypad key, it (un)folds INBOX / Folder1 /Folder2 underneath it. And when I want to open INBOX and check messages in it, then finger tapping opens it as expected, but center key click (un)folds folders down below. Surprisingly - right button click opens the folder as I want. It's inconsistent and super-annoying. :(

Marking all messages in folder as read - no easy way, or at least I couldn't find any. I need to dig through pretty deep menu.

Jumping to next unread message actually opens it automatically, while I'd prefer just to jump onto it's header and then decide whether to open it or not. Again, I haven't found such option in preferences.

These example are the first coming into my mind. Don't get me wrong - I can see Claws is very powerful and loaded with lots of options (maybe even a bit overloaded), but on the other hand it's usability puts me off, and makes whole experience much worse than it actually should be.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

That's why we have Modest (which will replace osso-email).

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Overlooking the hyperbolic sarcasm (:p), which makes more sense to you: a single long master thread, or a multitude of threads repeating the same themes? Keep in mind the latter has the potential for more posts.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Brontide: sorry, I must have misread your post. You can ignore my posts. I just understood that the lack of PIM is, for a lot of people (mainly "common" people who just want an IT for productivity) is a fault, just like a malfunctioning email app. And I didn't want to start a thread just to say that.

/me retires to my insignificance.

For the police on duty, thanks for the advices. I gave up posting. Will only post my questions from here.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

It's amusing reading one-off, subjective evaluations of this most complex piece of equipment. Having managed digital infrastructure comprised of many hundreds of computers I still end up mystified how any two machines, cloned progeny of the same parent, can end up behaving so differently from one another.

Contrary to the experiences of some, my N800 simply works as I use it throughout the day, for email (Modest/IMAP), or Pidgin, my IM of choice. Until Abiword is completed, I happily create text documents in Notes (exported to HTML and blutetoothed to my Mandriva desktop). Spreadsheets in Gnumeric work great, with the only obstacle being my aging eyes. And I am now learning to love finger-friendly Canola. The Nokia beats the pants off of any notebook wandering around my campus' wireless LAN.

My guess is that for the majority of users, few of whom are represented in this forum, and who likely don't stray far beyond included applications, the experience is more than satisfactory as they learn what it is or isn't suited for.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

My post wasn't about N810 first impressions... It was about the importance of threads that points out what could be improved on next OS releases, like I had undestood this post was about.

But I must have misread what Brontide expressed, and I already apologised with him.

Well, I speak for me, you speak for you, and the millions of potential Nokia consumers speak for them. That was not a rant, Tex. Believe me, I like my N800 very much and made a great effort to buy it (I live on Brazil, where guess? Nokia doesn't sell the ITs).

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Personally, I believe the importance of those threads to generally be "low", as they tend to largely end up being rants.

If you really want to affect some positive change, head on over to bugzilla, register and get to filling , contributing to and voting on bugs. That's where the people who are actually capable of fixing things hang out.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

...

Dude, you have a few of us pegged all wrong...

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Which I covered in my first post... for the past month it's not seen a stable release where it worked consistently without either complaining every time it opened or crashing in the background. It also does not replace osso-email, since there is no documentation on how to swap out the uri handling ( if it's even possible at this point ).

Once it's stable and included in the firmware then I might be able to check email off the list of beta quality software.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

Then your experience does not jive with mine (honestly, I didn't give the first post more than a cursory glance as these threads all seem to start the same way), yes, Modest is beta, but I've found it to be quite stable and usable for my particular use case (3 IMAP accounts, none of them particularly large).

:shrug:

Check the roadmap, it does replace osso-email, just not at this stage.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

You mean this roadmap?

http://maemo.org/intro/roadmap.html

That is a list, not a roadmap. It's a list without dates, context, or priorities. It's everything I have come to expect from Nokia at this point. Sometime "later" they will dump another os2008 update on us with little to no community input or testing with the features they have gotten around to.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

It's funny; about the same time the complaints of Modest crashing with Gmail IMAP accounts started in these fora, Modest finally stopped dumping core on every connection to a SSL'ed POP3 server I use. And now I see from postings here that Gmail IMAP users are finding joy with Modest again, and my account still works too. Sometimes software development is two steps forward, one step back, but overall, Modest is improving. By the time it's out of beta, it should be a solid product.

Re: n810.. a month later
 

No dude, it's you who got me wrong. I wasn't ranting.

See, I don't work in the "tech side of the force" :) , I have minimum knowledge of Linux (despite having a big wish and I've been trying to use it), and am starting in the IT world. Just wanted to give my contribution, and I'm being compelled to post things like this. I definitely didn't feel welcomed... I think other people like me would feel intimidated to post something...

That's it, I must be only one of the dozen that thinks it.

Bye!