2009 Tablet?
 

I'm guessing there will be an OS2009? so do you think there will be a new improved version of the n810 or a whole new device (n900?)? if there are any definite plans for a new tablet, i might hold back until it comes out, seeing all those flaws with the system in a bunch of reviews.

does anyone have any mockups or news about a new one?

thanks,
vapourstreakkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

There are no real news or mockups about a new tablet available. Nokia keeps this a secret. The first reliable indicator for a new tablet is when the FCC docs become available (usually a few weeks before the actual release).
You can bet on that Nokia is going to release a new tablet in 2009 (or maybe late 2008), and they have always been good for some surprise. But what it will look like or what it will feature... only some people at Nokia know at the moment.

I guess the new tablet will be built on a faster processor (ARM, not Intel Atom because ARM is used in mobile phones and Nokia uses phone parts for their tablets to make them cheap). It might feature 3D hardware acceleration and maybe a slightly higher resolution.
But I doubt the tablets will come with PIM software as long as they're placed in the N series instead of the E series.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

thanks. any estimated price point? how much do i need to save up to buy it?

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

I would say 500 USD. But if you can find a second hand n800 for about 150$ it is well worth it to get into this world even now.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

You'll probably have to fork over alot of cash. I think the new wimax tablet is around...$400ish? Not sure, considering I have absolutely no interest in it. Now, if they strip some of the nearly useless features from the old tablets (*cough* something that sounds oddly like "camera" *cough*) the price may go down a bit.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Personally, I think that Nokia will do very well to maintain the ~$400-500 price range of the Internet Tablets, though I would clearly be a fan of lower prices.

When you let the price creep up closer to that $1k price tag, people expect MUCH more, imo. Keeping the Internet Tablets prices low is going to prove to be key, specially with the Intel and other MIDs start hitting (or flooding, however you see it) the market later this year. Price will be a key factor.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

kk thx a lot.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

My money is on Fall 2008—we're in need of the generational upgrade, and that's about the time OMAP3 will really be up to speed.

Assuming we don't get anything out of left field, OMAP3430 is probably what it's gonna be (OMAP3440 may also be a possibility, but that one is really targeted at larger devices). So, something in the 600-700MHz range with (probably/hopefully) double the RAM and hardware video decoding and 2D/3D acceleration at a similar overall power usage to the OMAP2420 (so no real battery impact).

Well, that's part of the story. The other part being, primarily, that x86 just isn't anywhere near ready for the mobile space—especially not at NIT sizes. The Atom isn't an SoC, so you'll have to add a bunch more chips to the mix (and their power usage) to get the same functionality as one of the OMAP packages.

Nokia has a very strong relationship with TI which gets them big discounts, development assistance, and allows them to leverage their strong familiarity with the architecture. There's also a huge amount of momentum behind OMAP and ARM with the NITs, so a move to x86 (for no benefit at all) just doesn't make a lick of sense.

The built-in controller on the OMAP3430 is able to drive up to 1024x768, so Nokia could upgrade the panel to the something like 1024x600 without issue (hopefully still at the same panel size ;)). This is much less extreme than it sounds when you consider the Mylo 2 running a 3.5" panel at 800x480. Hopefully we get a full 24bits, too

The OMAP3430 eliminates the need for a 3rd party controller, so (as long as we get drivers—Nokia'd be insane not to get them) we get OpenGL and hardware video decoding (h.264 :D). Fast OpenGL and hardware decoding. . . .

Really, though, we've got nothing so far. Nokia doesn't (generally) announce future hardware or software plans, so this is all speculation at this point.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Based on previous design changes it will probably be more of the same with a few critical changes.

CPU upgrade, but don't expect it to exceed 800Mhz
RAM upgrade, but I expect it to be only 256mb... above that it's overkill for small linux device
Limited, but functional, 3d.. probably something integrated with the latest OMAP.

I'm torn if they will have capacitive touch. I would hope so, but this device has always been cost sensitive. Even if they don't implement multi-touch the active screen can sense finger input much better.

I'm pretty positive that the footprint will only be getting smaller. I would hope they will try to slim down the longest edge to 4.6" to bring it in line with the current generation of phones.

EDIT: GA snuck in while I was typing and beat me to the punch on most of the items.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Ehehe, I don't think it'll be as limited as you're thinking. That PowerVR 530 SGX is a damn impressive core (look at the Axim running Quake 3 on a much older PowerVR core back 2005).

Anybody interested in getting a bit of a sneak preview at the sort of things we might expect should pay attention to what's going on over in Pandora land. They're gonna be running similar hardware to what we can expect in the N900. Recycling Pandora code on the N900 is a particularly exciting prospect here. :D

I'm going to say "no" on capacitive—the interface just isn't setup to be purely finger-driven. Besides, the biggest use for multitouch kinda went out the lock when we got a hardware keyboard. Hopefully they will drop a higher-quality touch panel in there in any case (especially for stuff like MyPaint).

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

better screen anyone? 16mil colours?

also heard many complaints about the lag in the OS2008 UI. i think ill wait for the OS2009 with the new tablet. im in the process of creating a mockup of what i really want it to be, including hte internals. ill be considering the cost of manufacturing too, os it wont exceed $500 - $550.

any other ideas?

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

screw it. to hard. any other predictions?

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Overblown.

The N800 at $200 is a crazy-good deal. Personally, I'd get the N800 now rather than wait out the N900 (there's no way they're gonna go over $500).

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Keep in mind, they may deliver two products like they have the with the 800 series now. I wouldn't be surprised if they released a 900 for $300-$350 without GPS and a keyboard, and a 910 with those for $400-$500

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Would it seriously be that out of the box that the next NIT should have 802.11 N capabilites, it would seem a broader audience and a much larger playin field with N since they've now all agreed on the N format ? At this point Ii'd rather have N compliancy the WIMAX.

I'mjust really hoping for some sort of major hardware and usabiiliy much better, like putting the D-pad and "other" buttons (back) on the front facia an not hidden away when the keyboard is away.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is where does the next device in the series fit in Nokia's master plan?

Step 3 of 5 was the 810. WiMax can be assumed to have been step 4 of 5, but Nokia has been mum on this (from what I recall).

So will the next device be step 4 of 5 (meaning n810 WiMax flavour is insignificant).

OR

The next device will be step 5 of 5. That means that the next device will be quite significant. I would go as far as saying the most important tablet in the family, as it is Nokia's vision realized (or as close to it as possible). It will be a great device to say the least. I'll leave detail speculation to my fellow iTT colleagues.

Ok nothing exactly new up until now. But what about the future? What happens after step 5 of 5?

- Will Nokia cut it's loses and declare the iT an interesting project and close it down?
- Will Nokia declare the iT project an outstanding success and push it into the mainstream?
- Will Nokia continue to keep us in the dark?
- Will Nokia completely open up the platform (hard/soft/both) and really use/allow the community to push the iT forward?
- Will Nokia close the iT project, call it a success, and merge it with an existing product? (think N96+iT in one. N100: 500$)
- Move on to step 6 out of 10?

Some interesting open-ended questions that come to mind.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

i dont want a N800 because it seems so cheap. i need a more high-end device because it will have to last and be supported for a long time.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

You want a device that doesn't exist. Get over it. The utility of the n800 does not change based on it's price.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Perhaps, but consider this. I've had my N800 for a good year. It's served me well, and will continue to serve me for the next year to come. The n810 has few advantages worth it to upgrade. GPS? Don't really need it. Hardware keyboard? I type fast with stylus (nearly as fast as keyboard). light up keys? right...

Less than a week ago I finally upgraded to OS2008, and my N800 is like a new device (gmail is fast again!). Nokia really nailed it with the N800, so I see the need to upgrade to a "better" or "high-end" device. The fact that you can grab an 800 for 200 is really marvelous, I would go for it. You won't be disappointed. When OS2009 comes out, you will probably be able to upgrade to it and your n800 will continue to be "worth-it". But to each his own. If the n810 rolls you well, go for it. I might grab the future tablet, so if your patient and willing to wait, go for it.

Essentially I'm waiting for the next tablet, though I won't necessarily upgrade due to the N800's sheer head on the nail from Nokia.

Jon

Edit: Brontide, thanks for summarizing my entire post in one line. Before I posted :p

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Step 1 is the 770
Step 2 is the N800
Step 3 is the N810
Step 4 is the N810W
Step 5 is the N900(?)

This is correct.

I think the media-handling capabilities of the OMAP3 will go a really long way towards validating the N-series designation. Users wont have to think about what they can put on the device—they just take the media they have and use it. No hassle, no fuss.

The improvements in horsepower will really bring the whole mobile internet (especially with the proliferation of AJAX/Web 2.0 nonsense :p) that's not actually 'mobile' full circle. Really being about to chug through those heavy sites like you can on your desktop or laptop—but in your pocket!

I do not see this happening.

I guess it really depends on how step 5 goes, but it'll be interesting to see if the resources and development get ramped up.

Yes. They're a consumer-oriented company—that's how consumer-oriented companies operate (something makes me think you're not an Apple user :p).

Hardware, no, talk to TI and the rest about that. ;) TI does seem to be heading more in the open direction these days, but changes like that take time. In the short term, there's simply no viable completely-open substitute for OMAP for Nokia right now.

Now, software-side (particularly platform stuff) we are getting some traction getting stuff opened up (largely thanks to Ubuntu Mobile), and Quim has requested some requests from the community for what we'd like to see them focus on opening up (I've yet to see a real response to this request, though). While platform stuff I'm mostly optimistic about, the user-space stuff I wouldn't recommend holding any hope out for, but I'm not as concerned about this stuff as it tends not to impact developers as much.

Honestly, I think you're way overestimating the importance of N. We're not even getting close to maxing out G bandwidth-wise, so the real benefit might be in range (well, assuming they don't have some miraculous bus improvement), but I really haven't been all that impressed with the range improvements of the N devices that I've worked with so far and the NITs are the most sensitive (non-specialty) G devices I've ever used.

It's likely that the N900 will be N, though.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

I have to say, I don't buy into that the N810 WE is step 4. The 770 was step 1, N800 step 2, and N810 step 3, clearly. Thus, each 'step' is clearly an entirely new device. The N810 WE isn't a new device, it merely gained an antenna. It doesn't fit with the rest of the Tablet history for it to be considered an entire step.

Similarly, IF indeed the N810 WE *is* step 4, then Step 5 has no chance at being something significant, as it would seem that the steps are getting smaller. 770 to N800 was a HUGE leap in terms of hardware, software, everything. The N800 to N810 is still a leap, but not nearly as big as 770 to N800, and N810 to N810 WE is hardly what I would even call a step, really.

I agree that N isn't really any more attractive than WiMax, for most people. The tablet hardware is pretty much what I would call 'there', but it's the software that's preventing it from truly fitting in with the Nseries family, in my opinion. More to come on this in a blog post, but the media capabilities are going to need a serious overhaul.

In any case, I would say that currently, the N800 is a complete brilliant purchase. It's clearly going to be supported for at least another year, since internal hardware is pretty much the same as the N810 (processor, etc) and it was stated in the N810 WE press release that the next firmware update would be available for the N800.

Just cause it's cheap doesn't mean it's a cheap product. Quite the opposite, imo, Nokia's supporting it still because it's a very low-cost way for people to be introduced to the tablets.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Ahhh, yer quibbling, guru. :p

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

mhm... nokia pointed out the n810 is not a successor to the n800, but more of a sideline or a sibling. why would it be step 3 then? if step 5 is the ultimate, perfect, WOW!-factor device, i think we're still at step 2 with N8x0. (at least i dont see that much of a difference between n800 and n810 in terms of evolution towards the consumer market.)

or maybe the "steps" are not strictly hardware-related at all but refer to criteria they plan to meet in software, too... so one day a n810 could be step 5 as well, provided the ultimate OS will be compatible and still run on the device.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Then you're wrong. ;)

We could apply the same point to the N810.

'No chance'? Have you been paying any attention to what's going on on the hardware front? OMAP3 is mindblowingly awesome, and solves all of the major hardware issues with mediaplayback—not to mention significantly improving the overall performance of the device.

Heck, if anything, OMAP3 is a much bigger jump than the 770 to N800 transition.

Perhaps if WiMAX doesn't appeal to you (my needs are covered by 3g just fine, so it doesn't particularly appeal to me, either) but, for a lot of people, WiMAX is their solution to fast all-over data access, and that's definitely a big step.

This is more of a hardware issue than anything, and OMAP3 blows that out the lock. Besides, just look at what Nokia jumped us with with OS2008—there's still a lot of time for OS2009 to really get moving, and who knows what they gonna drop when fall rolls around.

Hardware keyboard, GPS, transflective and size—those are some pretty important things to a lot of people (especially to a lot of Joe-Consumer types).

Somewhat accurate, but I think you're underestimating the importance of the N810's feature improvements. Simply because it doesn't mean a lot to you, doesn't mean it doesn't mean a lot to others, and I know a lot of people for whom the N810 was a very big upgrade. ;)

Well, sorta. Step 5 is also a generational upgrade (i.e. 770 -> N800), so, particularly with OMAP3, there are going to be a lot of very significant improvements with the hardware to go along with the software.

Quibbling over what you "think" does and does not qualify as a step is rather pointless. Nokia has definitely confirmed that the N810 was step 3, and, aside from the fact that arguing that something Nokia releases isn't actually part of their plan is, well, pointless, others here have basically confirmed that the N810W is step 4.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

quit your jibba jabba fool :p

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

I'm new to the whole 5-step plan, but it reminds me of the NASA plan in the 60s.

Some would argue there was little difference between the Mercury and Gemini programs other than an additional crew member. Or that the early Saturn 1B flights weren't significantly different from the Gemini launches.

But then oh what a difference when the Saturn V took three guys all the way to the moon and back.

I'll bet the next step will be significant indeed, and don't doubt it will be step 5. I just hope that I can continue to ride on the new OS coattails and upgrade my N800 with each new step. It's been a fun ride for the past four months and I hope it continues!

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

IMHO, and I'm not looking to stir things up, Nokia is going to encounter steadily increasing resistance above the $400 mark.

For one thing, at that point you're crossing paths with the price of solid-state subnotebook computers heading in the other directon- down. I know that many are going to loudly protest that they're not comparable, but it doesn't really matter- they ARE compared, loudly, by a great many people, every single time the price of an IT comes up, and I don't really see that going away, justified or not.

Also, Palm found out that the market for handhelds pretty much maxed out at $400 some time back, and the "smart phone" experience hasn't been that different either.

For whatever reasons, perhaps partly just the chance of loss or damage, perhaps it's just a primitive throwback to "weighing" what they're getting for their money, people seem to get reluctant to spend more on smaller devices. Once you start talking about >$1000 keychain devices, it doesn't matter any more what it does for them, virtually nobody is listening. They just say, literally, "for that little thing?". Those capable of reasoning (or willing to rationalize) beyond that are a tiny minority.

I personally expect that limit to come down in the future, not go up. I would guess that the market for a $200 device is several times the size of the market for a $400 device, and the market at $500 may well be less than half of that.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

I am assuming you are from america. That may be true in america because of the crappy phones which the carriers provide with a "Discount". But in europe and asia people buy brand new unlocked phones which are a little pricey compared to the $400. So yeah if you go above the 400$ lesser number of people will be interested but you just cannot say that people will lose interest. Another thing to remember is the size. That is the sweet spot irrespective of cost for mobile devices

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

That's why keeping the N800 around (and eventually the N810, or whatever last-generation device they have) for as long as possible at a lower price point is important. Just look at the increase in users the N800's low price point brought in!

As the market expands, economies of scale will kick in more, and competition will help drive prices down. I dunno about $400, but I can't imagine Nokia breaching $500 with these things.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Something that I don't believe to have been adequately addressed yet is: Is the n810 WE really step 4 of 5.

In Reggie's intro to the n810 WE he wrote " 8. No one will confirm if this if the “4 of 5.”" [1]

Perhaps I missed something, but has Nokia recently stated that WE *is* step 4 of 5? Nokia clearly stated the n810 as step 3 of 5, but it looks like they were a bit unwilling to make the same clear statement about the WE.

What does this mean?

(If I missed something then just correct me, sorry in advance)

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

It's true enough- very few people here in the US have any idea what their phones cost (I'm an exception- after going for something like 15 years without losing one, I lost two cell phones in one week last summer motorcycling, and was faced with outrageous MSRP quotes for replacement). It's very much the same reason they have no idea what Windows costs, or whether it's difficult to install- both issues are artfully hidden from the consumers.

I'm not certain what you mean. MOST consumers will look at a device with an undersized screen and tiny thumb-keyboard and consider it to be worth less, for their purposes, than a small notebook computer. I understand the huge difference between a device that's with you only when you KNOW you'll need it, and one that can effortlessly be with you even if you DON'T know that... but to be fair, there's still considerable sacrifice associated with the smaller size as well.

"Palmtops" have just never really caught on. People understand phones and notebooks, but most don't see a personal need for a pocket computer. I'm speaking as someone who does; I've owned an Apple Newton and four Palms, but I also know that we're a small minority.

I may be wrong, but I'm so far unconvinced.... I think Nokia, if they choose to explore that option, will find a great deal of market resistance not far above $400... this year. Next year that ceiling may well be lower.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

IMO N810 WE isn't 4 of 5. They would be suicidal to declare that. Because it would mean that first Nokia device on OMAP3 is 5 of 5. And first generation devices are very rough things. They will release "N900" as bait to generate feedback, polish elements and in 18 months there will be 5 of 5.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Gigaboom, I believe your points were valid even a few years ago... but I also believe that perception is changing. The iPhone has actually done a lot to open consumers' eyes to what can be done on a tablet form factor. The challenge to the internet tablets is to do it better... and get the word out. ;)

Anyway, there's room for price overlap between high end tablets and low end laptops. How MUCH room remains to be seen.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

That isn't actually a US only thing. In the UK, everyone knows how much a phone costs, it costs nothing. The only thing that varies is that you have to pay different amounts for a contract. If you don't get a new phone, the contract gets cheaper.
Mine was unusual in that I paid for one as I didn't want to go to an 18 month contract.

Pretty much agreed here. Anything over that price is a luxury item, or to close to a laptop price.
They can't make enough eee's here to keep up with demand, but that is the price. Put it up another $100 and it wouldn't have sold hardly anything.

I have been looking for a N800 as they are much cheaper now, but they are still a bit much new.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

Heh. A little more than a year ago, I paid $370 for my N800. A few months later, I paid $300 each for two 15-inch notebook computers from Dell.

My N800 is still my main computer, but someday, when I have some time, I'll get my notebook out and install scratchbox. In the meantime, I boggle at how often "it's a cheap notebook" is used when speaking of the Eee PC.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

So one thing I am not getting here. Step 5 comes along and it is just a new processor (your omap thing). Although presumably more than just that as the general public really wont care about that (unless it gives huge battery life) but anyway, it comes out and it is fantastic.

So then what? Nokia says 'We are at step 5, so we are done'? They give up on ITs as they have got to step 5 and there isn't room for step 6?

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

The five steps are from geek toy to general consumer device. There will be room for improvement beyond step 5.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

My hope is that they nudge up the screen size to 4.3" in the same overall form factor rather than upping the resolution....

Well, that, and a truckload of commercial-quality software magically appears.

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

[QUOTE=jzencovich;166016]

What happens after step 5 of 5?

-QUOTE]

I'm betting on Step 6 of 5!

Re: 2009 Tablet?
 

7 of Nine!