Long Term Evolution
 

Wimax is not the future.

http://www.itwire.com/content/view/17484/1095/





http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.p.../03/23/1512220

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

Indoor performance decayed at 400 meters? How big is his house?

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

more like, when one was 400 meters or more from the antenna, signal was noticeably weaker inside a house then outside.

sounds similar to what i have read about umts installations, where they found that urban areas needed a forest of antennas, and even then the signal was poor inside buildings (but then most of those are reinforced concrete or similar).

im not sure LTE will be any better if its forced to run on the same high frequencies as wimax or umts. basically as the frequency goes up, signal penetration drops...

hell i have experienced degradation on satellite signals in heavy snow or rain, or if a tree is in the way...

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

I know, it was a joke:)

Indeed. Whatever the technology in use, they don't change the laws governing radio wave propagation.

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

ah, silly me. thats what i get for trying to get my sleep pattern back into something resembling a socially acceptable pattern.

yep, there is no escaping the laws of physicals, sadly...

now, maybe if we find a way to set up quantum entanglement at a distance. still, thats just exchanging one set of laws for another. still, its one of the most wacky laws out there imo...

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

Ah, not again... You know, the next technology after LTE will probably come two years after the two years... Why not wait for it instead? ;)

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

So much talk and hype but all I care about is reality. I'm curious about WiMAX or anything not tied to the cell companies or their pricing based on application. The new and improved and to 'rival' wired DSL/cable 3G/4G/blahG doesn't interest me in the slightest since it is just a faster version of what is already out there. I'm not avoiding xG because of speed but because of who runs it and how it is priced. Yep, I'm in Kanada and as such I don't own a cell phone so have zero interest in a faster data plan over a cell provider.

I want mobile internet, period. I don't want to pay these jokers for individual services such as phone, text, so called browsing, etc, I just want IP and then I'll run whatever I want over it based on a bandwidth cap. WiMAX promises that but the cell incumbents are doing all they can to kill that promise even when they are the actual providers. Promised me city wide wireless access and then only provided rural service (but good they did at least that) or a service that only runs over their locked down brick modems.

So all the news about the demise of this or the promise of that is just noise to me. When something is available here and now I'll listen.

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

A blend of WiMAX and wifi could solve the problem cited. Seamless handoff would be the main hurdle, but not insurmountable.

Also, as previously noted, the Australian rant needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

While I don't put a lot of faith into the Australian article, I'm looking forward to LTE. Both AT&T and Verizon are planning LTE rollouts on their recently acquired 700MHz blocks within a couple of years. Verizon (in conjunction with Vodaphone) has stated that they plan to start testing LTE this year, in hopes of a 2010 launch. From what I've seen on respective wikipedia pages, LTE looks faster, and I'm not sure how much faith I have in Sprint rolling out WiMax in the near future (as they've been saying that they'll start since mid last year, and we were supposed to have it here in Boston pretty close to now).

So, I'll probably end up with an LTE Android phone alongside my n800. The new n810 sounds really cool, but I'm not sure if they'll roll WiMax out before LTE becomes available. Plus, I don't want to part with the storage capacity of my n800.

I'm looking forward to a more usable mobile internet. Currently, with Verizon, all that is really usable is loading static pages, sometimes streaming music. I haven't ever had a fast enough connection to watch any streaming video without waiting until the entire thing loads first.

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

That's what I'm talking about, on the one hand you state the provider promises then on the other state the previous promises that failed to come true yet. I don't read or believe anything coming from the big boyz. It isn't about one being a little faster than the other, they are both fast enough.

These companies aren't going to give us what we really want unless they are forced to by somebody new and less evil (looking at you google). Why would they give us something like the internet you get at home (even at *only* 1-3Mb) when they can ding you .15 each way for a text message and .05/kb for data and gawd forbid you want to tether which then means mortgage the house.

North America might be use to these tactics but I'm not and choose not to use any of the existing services other than simple internet from a real ISP. My N8 works peachy as my primary phone and entertainment device over WiFI, getting it to be even more moble just like all those bogus ads would be sweet.

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

While I too am a bit skeptical of these PR statements, the biggest thing to look at here is that three of the four major providers in the US are looking at providing this. If only one of them rolls out their 4G network in 2010, then that one provider will see a swell of customers, which the other two providers really don't want to happen. All three providers will be motivated to get their networks up and operational by 2010 because by mid next year (let's hope), Sprint will already have begun rolling out their WiMax network to several cities. The other providers will be forced to compete.

Currently, all providers offer tethering (usually for about $60), and on Verizon it is, as i said, fast enough for static pages, and streaming audio (including VoIP - but not great sounding, and a bit ridiculous since I'm tethered to my cell phone).

Also, since Verizon won the C-block (i think?) of the 700MHz auction, they will be forced to follow a certain set of open access rules. This means that they won't be able to lock down their LTE network like they do the regular one. Although, I have never done anything on the EVDO network that has gotten me into any trouble or has been blocked by Verizon (no, I haven't used Bit-Torrent at all).

Also, regarding the cost per text message, I recall reading that the reason for that was the way that the information was sent. And, of course you can tether to your n800 and use your IM for free (if you pay for the full internet connection).

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

I'm beyond skepticism. Like ads in general, I don't even listen anymore. 4G or anything tied to a cell phone or phone plan is useless to me. They aren't going to make it cheaper (a LOT cheaper if I'm to use it) in fact it will be more expensive since it will be promoted as faster with more ads with smiling faces.

Even at $60, tethering is out since that is on top of a phone plan that I don't and won't have. So for whatever price a cell plan is I can make a decent phone call (or not) and for $60 more I can get crappy VoIP and static pages? And then get dinged again for other services or roaming? That's not even close to being useful. WiFI even with limited coverage is much much better for the time being. I was surprised that at the restaurant I went to last night out in the boonies had full speed open wireless allowing me to use my N8 like I normally do including my own choice of dinner music. No extra cost.

The providers have it all backwards for my needs. they can offer all manner of complicated plans and services but the only thing I want is TCP/IP running anything of my choosing. I'll gladly take and prefer to have a bandwidth cap vs all the nonsense out there now. Up here there is an "unlimited data" plan provided you only do it on their locked phone running their locked down applications via a long term locked down contract. meh.

I don't believe the reasoning for text messaging prices. The voice call over cell is digital and a text message is less than 1 second worth of minimal data that doesn't have to be real time. That is why I've been running my own services for a long time and have kept my own domain for over a decade despite changing ISPs and moving to a different provider area. Now I'm doing the same with my phone number, run my own system and be independent of the transport provider or physical location. My phone number(s) ring the house phones like a landline and follows me to the office phone and wherever my NIT is. And data runs over the same system from my computers and NIT without some special plan allowing me to do it exactly like I want. And the cost is small compared to even just a single cell phone plan. My ISP still makes money.

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

I like your line of thinking. But, I have a feeling that you're one of the few people who both know what they want, and how to get it for themselves.

I believe that part of the definition of 4G is a TCP/IP based network. You can already run whatever service you choose on the current dial-up networks, except for *maybe* bit-torrent. I believe that the $60 is in conjunction with a cell service, but you can get it without a cell service for a different rate, and neither is a long term contract, it's a month-to-month deal. I didn't say that the VoIP was crappy, but the couple of times that I tested it, the quality wasn't as good as a WiFi connection, but it was usable. As far as the text messages, I'm not sure, but if you don't think that it's worth it, that's when you use the net connection, and IM for free over that. It's not like they're forcing you to use it. And, as for 4G costing a premium, I don't really see that happening, they didn't do it with 3G, so why would they with 4G?

Also, advertisements are different from statements that are picked up by the news media, and circulated around the blogs. The blogs announced Sprints plans to rollout WiMax a couple of years ago, and have followed that story very closely, including Sprint ousting it's CEO, who was a big WiMax supporter, as opposed to the board, who didn't want to roll out a new technology, and instead focus on their current network. But, apparently they realized that it was important to move forward with their WiMax rollout, so it's back on the table.

I guess that the biggest issue is that for you, WiFi seems to be working pretty well, so why would you pay for an inferior mobile connection? I wouldn't if I could rely on having WiFi when I needed internet access, but I can't. The mobile service may be a bit slower than I'd like, but I'm willing to pay for it because there have been very few times where it hasn't worked (on the train in between towns in New Hampshire and Maine). I don't necessarily like the current situation, but it's the best available to me right now.

--
4G
Verizon LTE rollout
AT&T LTE rollout

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

I don't believe that it needs someone new or less evil (or even that google is necessarily less evil), it just needs someone who wants that market.
As soon as someone makes a play for it, the others have to join in.

Becasue if they have the bandwidth to give it to you, and need the market, they will.
A year ago in the UK, I couldn't get a decent practical 3G data service (no problem with phone service) at a price I could afford.
A few months back, one of the telcos decided they wanted that market and started offers for it, now mobile bandwidth has jumped 7 fold, and I can get gigs of data transfer for very little money. In fact, for the same cost as my ISP I can get half the data transfer as my adsl line, at what is an acceptable speed (certainly faster than anything I had up until a few years ago). This is nothing I could have done before, and I think it is fantastic - I have a functional mobile internet that works wherever I want to go, and it can only get better as more of the telcos have to join in. They have to work hard in the UK - it is a very mature market and noone who wants a phone doesn't have one and we change our phones a lot. The only new business they can get is taking it off each other.

Well, regardless whether it is 3/4/x/G phone, or WiMax/TLE/WTF etc, the technology is available, but if you have a problem with people providing the service, there is nothing you can do about it. If they think they can get money out of you they will.

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

I can't speak to the business end, and honestly, I don't know much about the technology end, either, but from what I have heard, LTE makes more sense and will be cheaper from a carrier standpoint. For the Verizon endpoint, working with the Vodaphone end, it just makes sense to get off the current platform and move to LTE.

That means better speeds for you and me, and better network utilization. True, text prices are market driven (sms vs IMs, they go over the same netowork, and the same protocols, mostly). but getting lot's of data across, like LTE enables, will be a real step up (supposedly). That is my understanding.

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

Did someone say LTE?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7348706.stm

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

So nokia make a wimax device and start pushing LTE? I guess that is keeping your options open!

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

Kinda like producing both CDMA and GSM phones, right? ;)

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

No idea, AFAIK CDMA was/is a US thing unless I am thinking of something else (which is perfectly possible!). Cetainly nothing I had dealings with.

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

CDMA is used by one operator in norway, sweden, denmark and finland to push wireless "broadband" on the go...

its operating on the old NMT frequencies iirc...

as for nokia going both wimax and LTE, not surprising. they are a hardware company so as long as they get some sales going, who cares what tech its using...

Re: Long Term Evolution
 

I wasn't critising, it just seems their announcement for both are pretty close.
But yes, that is the way a hardware company should be, especially in the heavily political world of phone communication.