OMAP3 resources opened
 

I stumbled upon this blog post a few days ago and wondered if it would mean anything to Nokia and the tablets. Anybody know if/how (future) tablets are affected?

Could this lead to more open code in Maemo?

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Yes, future looks promising, too bad they (=TI) will probably open just new OMAP3 stuff, not older OMAP2 (or even 1) used in current tablets. But still it is great for any new OMAP3 based tablet :-)

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

right,fanoush get the point
http://www.zippo-shopping.com/zippo.bmp

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Is there anything special that devs cannot do now because of the closed design that they will be able to do in the future? anything that users are waiting for?

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

3D, java acceleration? But as fanoush said - they probably won't open the OMAP2 docs, so the devs won't be able to do it later too :)

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

a good wifi driver that support channel hopping ... :)

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Well, there might be an OMAP3 based tablet in the future, so even if the current tablets don't benefit from it, the product line as such might.

Also, if they see that opening the specs doesn't hurt, maybe they reconsider their position on OMAP2?

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

It is too early to name anything special now. We'll see how much will be opened. At least it will be a bit easier to run own stuff on new DSP and use other hardware that Nokia decides to not to use for whatever reason. But still the 3d chip may remain closed (it is licenced from 3rd party). Also wi-fi chip in current tablets is not from TI and is closed too so there may be not improvement here.

What matters it that it proves that times are changing and companies like TI feel the pressure and see the importance of having things open. And due to domino effect it will sooner or later push others in same direction too.

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Well, they planned it for OMAP3, it may not be possible to open older designs retrospectively due to 'intellectual property' reasons as some stuff may be licenced from other parties or other parties who already use current hardware with current licensing rules may not like it. Even if there is no problem they may feel it is not worth the investment to do it for old (soon to be obsolete) stuff. We'll see.

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

just give us the powervr driver >_<

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

It would be interesting to see more information about the PowerVR and how it is accessed, likewise it would be nice to work out what the IVA is and how to access it. Accessing OMAP resources from the DSP is another one (e.g. Bluetooth for a2dp).

This is specific to the ARM chip, not the OMAP itself. You need to talk to ARM about it.

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Jay!

(but not for the reasons some of you might think) :D

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Looks like IVA2.2 in OMAP3 is TMS320DMC64X+ DSP (32bit fixed point DSP)
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folder.../omap3530.html

IVA (not IVA2) in OMAP2420 is mystery to me too, read somewhere that it is another ARM core.

EDIT: it is mentioned here http://synopsys.com/products/sls/vp/vpom-2420.html so IVA 1.0 consists at least of "ARM7TDMIE, iINTC, System Controller, REGS2, MMU, sINTC, IVA Registers, RAM, VLCD, IMX, SEQ, DMA" so yes, it is ARM7TDMIE core

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Yeah I read something similar, but who knows! :)

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Considering that this is a thread I started myself I find it very embarrassing that I do not understand a single word in some of the posts above. :D

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

lol. IVA stands for Imaging and Video Accelerator. It's mentioned on the OMAP2420 page and the pdf from there says it can do some nifty things (http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/TI_omap2420.pdf).

The TMS320* stuff is the name of a Ti DSP, we also have a TM320C55x DSP on the OMAP2420 and 1710 (is that the right one for the 770). So it looks like the OMAP3 has twin DSPs, one designed to do audio stuff (like on our OMAP2420) and one to do video stuff built into the IVA2. the question is then is our IVA actually a DSP? And how on Earth can we use it?

There is some mention of enabling the IVA in the DSP Gateway code (it's been changed so that more than one DSP/Co-processor (as I don't know if it's a DSP) can be accessed, but my understand is that there's no kernel for the IVA.

HTH, but it may just confuse even more!

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Looks to me there is just one as a part of IVA2. Where did you see mentioning second one?
Sorry for the edit in my post above. It is ARM7TDMIE core probably together with some HW accelerators as its coprocessors or registers mapped to its memory.

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

I assumed it would have one (and it be called a DSP rather than an IVA), it being an OMAP. My mistake. It looks like the OMAP3 chips have an IVA and an ISP (Image signal processor). The IVA2 is a DSP, I don't know what the ISP is (though the reference manual probably says what it is).

Great! Good to have authoritative information about what it is :)

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Well I did a search for ARM7TDMIE on the Ti website and it turns up associated with a Ti chip called the TMS470R1x. This looks like it probably fits the bill for what the IVA is (though I hasten to add this is just my assumption), along with some coprocessors to do the IVA specifics.

My attention was piqued by this doc: http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/spna071a/spna071a.pdf

The chip is described here: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spnu134b/spnu134b.pdf

Then again, looking at this page (http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spnu248/spnu248.pdf) it looks like this chip has usually got peripherals attached to it (though it may still be used for the IVA as it's a know quantity for Ti, and it's about the only reference to that ARM chip I could find).

Though that doesn't really help in getting it to do anything of course, but always nice to know (or think we know) what's lurking in there.

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Any one else attended webcast on OMAP 35x ? I got this mail from TI

"Thanks again for attending our live webcast OMAP35x Platform Overview: Applications Processors with Laptop-like Performance at Handheld PowerLevels held on April 9, 2008.

In appreciation of your interest, we'd like to send you a special gift."

Any idea what the special gift might be ? I would like a n810WiMax (if someone from TI is listening)

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

I did, and I got the same message.

My guess is that it is something fairly simple, such as a mousepad, USB-memory stick, or calendar? (I'd be very surprised if it was a OMAP3 SW/HW development kit... :D)

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Maybe a personalized NDA? Printed on a mousemat?

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

or a custom built nokia n1000 ( with omap3 (hd video) + renesas navi 2v ( next generation navigation and driver assistance ) )

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

A copy of the OMAP2420 Architecture Reference Manual would do fine for me :)

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

A ball-point pen that skips?

(With OMAP 3430 FTW! etched on the side, of course.)

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Just wondering if anyone who attended to this webinar did receive the gift yet? I haven't... :confused:

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

me neither.

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Another impact, other than maemo having more features and more openness, is that the use of OMAP processors will no longer be limited to the big players like Nokia. This should increase community support. As Mara mentioned you can buy a dev kit now http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/fold...dxevm3503.html for a paltry $1.5k and other people already have single board computers http://www.logicpd.com/products/som/ti/omap35x using OMAP35xx advertised.

Android was being demoed on the omap35xx at the embedded systems conference.

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Definitely. The Pandora project in particular should be interesting to N900 owners, as we'll be able to reuse a lot of their code, which equals really awesome emulators. :D

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Meh, I'm interested to see which will be more open and better (N900 or Pandora). I'm not a fanboy, if the competition is better, I will happily buy that instead.

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

From what I've seen, Pandora will clearly be more open. N900 isn't known well yet, but I think HW-wise, better is gonna be different for different people.

And it looks like we can run Debian on either of them (Thanks, JohnX!!), so openness isn't really a huge issue, from a practical perspective.

As I've said, I'm gonna get an N900 if it makes me happy; if not, I'll go for a P&|a, which should be cheap by then. Whichever way I go, I think the similarity of the devices (and some overlap of developer communities) will be a major bonus to both parties. We get emulators, they get Maemo Mapper... and we all collaborate on pulling OOo with our Miatas.

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Nice one is (or will be soon) http://beagleboard.org/ for $150

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

I guess Pandora will be more open in the sense that there is no army of lawyers, UI designers, managers and other specialists that can veto any slightly radical idea in both software and hardware design ;-) OTOH there is also no army of coders and QA people that will polish the device for you so there will be a lot of rough edges for some time (or forever).

At least I expect it to be easier to get low level HW (schematics, pinouts) and SW info (bootloader etc) from Pandora guys than from Nokia. They are smaller and really need help from community. As for N900 I'm expecting yet another great internet tablet with poor gaming controls :-) We'll see.

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Hmm...I should clear up my stance. Openness is still a big issue *to me.* Right now Debian for the N8x0 works by cheating: It borrows libraries and closed source kernel modules from Nokia's OS2008. Once Nokia stops updating their hardware drivers to work with newer kernels (and their gstreamer/dsp stuff to work with newer libc) things will start to break. The other direction of openness that I care about is for Nokia's userspace apps included with the n8x0, such as media player, browser-ui and others. This is all Nokia's choice as a company as long as they follow the letter of the license, which it appears they are doing. However, it is our choice as potential customers to vote with our wallets if we feel openness of drivers and software is important to us.

Nokia: I care about openness and the openness of future tablets *will* affect my purchasing decision.
Users: Vote with your cash if you care.

-John

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Yeah; I'm with you there, openness does matter; I was just saying that it's not huge (because less stuff is now troublesome, or more closed stuff can be replaced). Perhaps I wasn't very clear on that... I guess that emphasis should have been present in my previous post.

It will be a factor in my purchase, for sure, but so is the Pandora's form-factor (which I dislike). To me, these are comparable quantities, so depending on the actual N900, I could go either way.

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

Guess what? I just received my gift... it is a OMAP T-shirt. :D

Re: OMAP3 resources opened
 

http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=121

Nice, right at the bottom of the article:

No idea whether these features are "exported" for people to use (or if we'd need to write our own code to run on the chip to do this), but sounds like it should be fun to work out what the best optimisations are (SGX vs DSP vs Cortex).

These are probably already in the thread, but just in case:

Ti doc on the SGX: http://focus.ti.com.cn/cn/lit/ug/spruff6b/spruff6b.pdf
Intel datasheet (contains an SGX so I understand, see ch9): http://download.intel.com/design/chi...hts/319537.pdf