New N800 price point
 

Expansys just established a baseline pricepoint for the N800 of $156.

Anyone paying more than this is paying to much.

Some profitteer, probably someone from this forum, bought 14 all at once and will probably be trying to sell them here for a profit.

He won't be getting my business unless its at or below the new baseline pricepoint of $156.

Whoever he is he will not make a dime on me and hopefully anyone else here.

Re: New N800 price point
 

Quite frankly, I find the implication that a "profiteer" is a bad thing to be more than a little irritating. But dropping implications and examining the substance of what you said, I'm left with a couple questions:

One: Why are you now "paying too much" if one dealer had a closeout sale at that price and nobody else does?

Two: I can see why you don't want to pay that much to someone; you don't think it's worth that much because (you think) you can find it cheaper elsewhere now. But why do you care if anyone else buys them at that price, or if he makes a profit? I don't see that it hurts you one way, or helps you the other. So why worry about it?

Re: New N800 price point
 

1. closeout sales = new price point to me.
All other sellers, especially those selling for higher, will be reminded by buyers that it once sold new for $156 and will be asked why are you still selling for so high. If the buyer stick to their guns then seller will feel pressure to lower.

2. I hate that I went to buy one an some guy, likely a profiteer, had already bought them all. Lock, stock, barrel. All gone. Now he will just sit on them to try to make a buck on someone like me that want an N800 however I wont budge over the new baseline of $156.

Re: New N800 price point
 

Benson, why is it hard to understand that to buyers, profiteers are bad people.

This person is no diff from oil companies running up profits.

Re: New N800 price point
 

Benson, I am sorry if I sound crude.

Just temporarily angry.

I respect you and everyone here.

Re: New N800 price point
 

I understand that, as you think you will be able to get them elsewhere at that price, you won't go over.
You didn't answer the emphasised query directly, so I'm left to infer:
So you seek to punish him because he was faster than you? By persuading everyone else not to buy from him, even if they feel it's worth whatever he's asking?

It's not hard to understand, it's just plain wrong. He's not trying to procure money at your expense; that's termed plunder, not profit, and would qualify him as a bad person.

If you don't think the deal a profiteer is offering (he gives you an N800, you give him $160) leaves you coming out ahead of where you were, then don't do it. I suppose you would, on the other hand, offer him another deal (perhaps you give him $120, he gives you an N800) in which he doesn't think he comes out ahead of where he was.

Classifying him as a bad person for offering the first deal is precisely equivalent to his calling you a bad person for offering the second deal.

Precisely.

Why's that so hard to understand? or doesn't your car run on gas?

Re: New N800 price point
 

Supply and demand establishes the price point. I believe Expansys also indicated that additional savings could be had for a volume purchase.

Using your logic then the baseline should be the per unit cost of what Expansys eventually sold the lot for??? :confused:

The reality is that if there is a demand for a unit and this dude has the supply, the new price-point is what he determines it to be and not you.

Good luck. :)

Re: New N800 price point
 

Anthony, Benson and YoDude are correct on all most counts.

Profit in and of itself is not bad. Price-gouging on necessities is.

Supply and demand, not a single closeout price, drive a spectrum of price points. It would be correct to say that Expansys just set the bar for low price on the N800, but that's it.

Re: New N800 price point
 

Actually I will take issue with the defense of oil companies.

Gas is a necessity in many regions, and oil companies have a known history of collusion and other unsavory tactics used to take advantage of consumers. There are laws in the US against this, but every time Congress has got all fired up to act the price eases a bit and they all quiet down.

And now it's even worse: commodities speculators have been shown to artificially drive up the price of crude oil in trading activities that had oversight removed several years ago. Some in Congress are now demanding the oversight be restored, but I'm not holding my breath on that one either.

Crude would be under $100 per barrel if not for the speculation.

/rant

EDIT: petroleum is not part of a supply-and-demand economy anyway. It's part of a scarcity economy.

Re: New N800 price point
 

I stand corrected. Thanks for the feedback.

My price for buying a new N800 will be less than 160 though.

Re: New N800 price point
 

Well, yes and no. In the typical usage of the term "price-gouging" (which basically seems to just mean regular old supply and demand), I'd disagree—in that sense, it's a good thing, as it keeps the demand from grossly outstripping supply (as happens every time a hurricane rolls around in Florida), slows down the runs on emergency supplies, and helps keep certain individuals from buying way more than they need.

In the sense of abusing an emergency situation to jack prices beyond what demand justifies, well, right or wrong, who cares? Unless there's some major price-fixing conspiracy involving all suppliers, the market will take care of the issue itself and people will go elsewhere.

As it is, "price-gouging" laws mostly just result in insane rushes to pick up supplies people don't need and little incentive for suppliers to go to extra lengths to get more supplies to the area.

Re: New N800 price point
 

I think it's a mistake to draw a bunch of conclusions about someone who may have bought a bunch of N800s at a good price. Maybe he's trying to pay for his kid's leukemia bills.

I would guess that the overwhelming number of people in the world have made a profit from time to time. Some of those people might have been stoned for usury once. But that in was the Middle Ages.

I don't think that hating some anonymous person who might not even exist is a wise move, and basing your purchasing habits on the proported actions of this person seems unsound.

Re: New N800 price point
 

The qualifiers should be assumed in my post given the context (I did acknowledge regular supply and demand). But as I amended, petroleum (and ergo gasoline) no longer follow supply-and-demand and have not for years now. Unfortunately, recognizing a scarcity economy is almost always a hindsight sort of vision.

And while it betrays my cynical side, you seem to imply altruism on the part of producers that isn't there. Most operate out of self-interest (nothing really natively wrong with that) which at the peak and into the decline of any process starts working against the process. Thus the regulatory safeguards that many naively decry as unnecessary-- although they would be if we lived in Utopia. ;)

Collusion also creates the same result. Ah, if only the gears of economy were naturally oiled and defect-free...

Re: New N800 price point
 

Not to get too far off-topic here, but Paul Krugman blew that canard to pieces in Monday's paper.

/reverse-rant

Re: New N800 price point
 

Personally, I find that buying 14 machines to sell them at a profit qualifies as investment. And there is a risk: maybe this person will be left sitting on his 14 N800s with nobody interested to buy them. For example, if the price of the N810 would drop (not saying it will), this buyer will not be able to make a profit.

And I should say that I bought 10 N800s a month ago myself. They were sold out in Europe and relatively cheap in the US. Most of them were actually reserved for friends before the order, and I did not sell them for a profit (since I sold them to friends).

Re: New N800 price point
 

Eh, that's an opinion column, and others with at least as much credibility assert that speculation IS a factor. I'm inclined to believe the latter. Not saying it's the only factor, though. Scarcity (real or merely perceived) is the big one... speculators just play on that.

Re: New N800 price point
 

And that's always the chance.
AAA pays $160@
Tries to fleabay for $200
NOTE THAT THE WARRANTY DOES NOT TRANSFER
from nokia
price in big box drops to $180
AAA gets to sit on remaining stock

Re: New N800 price point
 

The nice thing about Krugman is that though he is a raving partisan, he always makes his reasoning clear. The implication above is that you choose who you believe based on their "credibility". I think the actual contents of their reasoning has something to do with it as well. This particular column seemed well-reasoned.

Re: New N800 price point
 

It *seemed* well-reasoned but was very, very light on detail. My take on Krugman's piece there is that he expects the beauty of his own verbiage to carry his argument. Sorry, to me it doesn't. Persuasive writing takes more than a command of language and a comfort with the topic.

I am biased the other way on his argument due to a variety of factors, one of which is my own familiarity with how markets work and having witnessed the reality of conspiratorial speculation first-hand (some naive family members lost a lot of money when the Hunt brothers manipulated the silver market years ago). As far as I'm concerned, it's extremely disingenuous to make the bold claim that speculation is not a factor in ANY commodity's price. And given that we have supposedly reached peak production vis-a-vis petroleum (based on conventional wisdom and technology) then it only stands to reason that both true scarcity AND speculation will combine to drive the price of oil up-- to some extent, artificially (the *some* is why I fall more in line with conservative estimates of oil's over-pricing rather than the hyperbolic statements of under $75). That artificial aspect is a common outcome in any scarcity economy. Fear is a powerful motivational tool.

EDIT: really, Krugman's article is little more than elegant naysaying.

Re: New N800 price point
 

Guys, before you keep arguing about the oil price etc... read this (yes, I know it is long...), think with your own brain, and then make your judgment:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Index.html

Re: New N800 price point
 

I've read through that site before, Mara, but thanks for the refresher. It's certainly a sobering look at the oil situation (man are we off topic!).

I only take exception to this part:

The bolded part is incorrect-- there IS evidence of the possibility; the issue is one of interpretation of evidence, and acceptance.

Some of the basic evidence is:

-oil has been discovered and retrieved where it should not be according to conventional analysis

-an empty reserve off the coast of Louisiana was recently discovered to be experiencing replenishment from an unknown source... something that has surprised skeptics of renewable oil theories

I suspect it's possible we've been misled (intentionally or otherwise) on the concept of renewable oil. I suspect the process IS abiotic and constant. However, I still believe that even if that's true the REAL problem is one of recovery rates and practicality. Oil that replenishes slowly and/or is extremely difficult or noncost-effective to obtain might as well be nonexistent.

http://www.accesstoenergy.com/view/a...e/s76a2145.htm

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Oil-P...um-85267.shtml (a little more objective than the previous article)

Re: New N800 price point
 

That's the whole point: Oil is likely NEVER going to run out completely, but the speed it can be extracted/produced will be too slow to supply world demand. When that point (supply/demand) is reached, all bets are off.

Re: New N800 price point
 

Back to the original topic -- I just paid $219 for another N800 at CompUSA -- so the pricepoint is restored from the offending $159 low.

Catastrophe averted.

:D

Re: New N800 price point
 

I don't think that we will ever run out of fuel, BTW just cheap fuel.

When gasoline was $1.00 per gallon, it was not economical to use other fuels. All of a sudden, oil from shale, from coal, etc. is competitive with more expensive oil.

It's almost as though cheap oil was dumped on the fuel market for years -- holding back the development of new fuels. Now that the prices are increasing, we should see a real solid increase in conservation and competing and renewable energy sources.

It was already possible to make cars with 80-100 mpg -- but the engineers and car companies focused on heavier and more powerful vehicles. With some improved aerodynamics, lighter materials and other technologies like hybrid engines, a lot can be done.

We bought a prius a few years ago and we were the butt of jokes -- people would ask if it did more than 50 miles per hour (i think they confused the 50 MPG!) We love the car. There are literally no compromises when compared to a 100% gas powered car.

A few years ago it seemed unreasonably expensive to adapt the hybrid to a plug-in hybrid (more batteries are added and you get close to 100 MPG when you plug in to charge at night). But with gas at $4, it would pay for itself pretty quickly.

I think that we unfortunately need these higher prices to inspire conservation and development.

Re: New N800 price point
 

For Sale: brand new N800 - only $750.

Hurry, I only have 14 at this price. They WILL sell out!

Re: New N800 price point
 

Can we haggle?

I bid $157 for 1!

:D

Re: New N800 price point
 

This thread took a tanget; and I read it. I got thru a few of the links mentioned, the peak oil one hit...sobering type of hit. That's the kind of reading that makes me sit back a lot, evaluate everything.

Re: New N800 price point
 

No kidding!

On a positive note, though, keep an eye on IVAN stock. I recommend loading up on it while it's cheap (I have 171 shares so far and more coming). The company, Ivanhoe, has a patented process for extracting difficult crude and I have this feeling (reinforced by periodic price bumps during oli-related market panic) that it's gonna take off soon. About $2 USD per share. Cheap.

Re: New N800 price point
 

I keep jumping back and forth between speculative threads so maybe I'm confused, but is Nokia discontinuing the production of oil? Is this because the new price point of the N800 is somehow linked to the price of a barrell of crude?

Re: New N800 price point
 

One Nokia N800 = 2.25 gallons of mid-grade gasoline.

Re: New N800 price point
 

I rarely see mention of another reason for rising barrel prices, the falling U.S. dollar. Priced in dollars it makes sense that a dollar that has fallen as much as it did would cause a rise in oil prices. In some places that traditionally have had *much* higher fuel prices but still maintain a healthy economy thank you very much, the price of fuel has risen but only a fraction of what is has in dollars.

To bring it full circle, I heard that a station in the U.S. did their annual cheap gas sale. People were parked on the road for many hours for the chance of saving a few bucks over a few hours hours of driving. Silly but at ~.0.98/gallon I will call that the new price point. Therefore I'm not buying fuel until I find it for ~0.30/litre. :eek:

We can turn this into one of those threads that go on for endlessly over things like $2 cables from china. jeez.

And I'll bid $158.33 for that N800. Call me crazy or call me iNuts, but I just gotta have another one...

Re: New N800 price point
 

All this and stock pimping too!

Not that I mind a Texan promoting Canadian stock, it just rather unusual :-)

Re: New N800 price point
 

I don't see the dollar as a reason-- I think the two are tightly intertwined.

Re: New N800 price point
 

I've owned numerous Canuck stocks. Just added one from Mexico today, too. And I'm long on a certain Finnish phone internet company. :D

Re: New N800 price point
 

With the energy savings between running a PC 24 hours a day and running the N800 for a mere fraction of the electricity intake -- at $158, that device will PAY for itself in no time. :)

Re: New N800 price point
 

I'm no economics expert but I play one on the interweb. Being intertwined is the reason I see the price of goo going up as the dollar goes down. They jumped for joy in Canada when the C Loonie hit par with the U.S. peso but that rise had just as much to do with the drop in the dollar as it did with the different economies and what is still hot in Canuckistan.

And of course there is that little matter of a war for oil that isn't going nearly as well as planned. One of the posted links goes on about future oil wars. hum, isn't that already happening? The doom and gloom coming out of the so called media in the u.s. over gas prices is such nonsense. They ain't seen nothing yet. Oh yeah, there's that war thingy. get the boys and girls the fsck back home.

Turn off the pc, turn on the NIT, drive less. 'mo bits to the gallon.

Re: New N800 price point
 

This looks like a good addition to your portfolio:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ELECTRISITREE-Th...QQcmdZViewItem

:D:p

EDIT: Looks like a bargain... :rolleyes:

Re: New N800 price point
 

That was seriously random. :p

Re: New N800 price point
 

This one tells you how much energy tablet runs, http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ad.php?t=20117. All you need is to measure your PC energy then one knows how many barrel of oil one can save by converting. I think we ought to notify the national defense :eek:


bun

Re: New N800 price point
 

That blog seems to be contrasting a scarcity economy vs. an abundance economy. It seems rather light on the economy side; to me it seems like a lot of feel-good blather. The abundance notions are particularly light on economics; if treating "happiness and spirituality as the default state of being, and not just a medicine to temporarily dull the pain", for example, is what this abundance economy consists of, I think a supply-and-demand economy is more readily identified with the scarcity economy.

In my view, a traditional supply-and-demand economy is a scarcity economy; things have value because they are scarce. While it's true that the supply curve and the demand curve may have varying elasticity, that's a qualitative difference, and not one that justifies claiming it's a different type of economy.

And for the record:
My point was that "oil companies running up profits" was not bad; if they weren't making profits, they wouldn't be shipping gasoline, and I'd be buying a lot more shoes.

I didn't say (nor mean to imply) that the particular means that they have a history of making bigger profits by (collusion) is ok; that wasn't Anthony's claim.

FWIW, though, I'm a serious free-marketeer, and tend to oppose the sort of federal regulations and oversight you're discussing, but I've no great inclination to argue that here; my initial point was rather narrower, and I'll stick with that. Hence my non-respondence to vast chunks of this thread.