Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

I don't speak Finnish, so I can't really judge the source or anything, but still, this is interesting:

Article (translated by Google)

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Well, Kauppalehti is respected newspaper in Finland.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Hehe, the guy said just enough to seed holy fear into Symbian management hearts ;)

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

I guess so ;)

If it turns out to be true (or really happening), I guess they'll try to use Qt to ease the transition between Symbian S60 and the new Linux-based OS? First offer Qt for S60 as soon as possible, convince the app developers to use Qt to design their programs and then switch to the new OS...

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

It is not as simple as just rewriting the UI. UI is almost the easiest part. The cellular comm stack, the real time framework, the bluetooth stack, the power management code are the hard parts. Symbian has them nailed down, but Linux does not. Nokia did have a lot of headstart with Maemo though.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

It seems relatively obvious that Nokia is considering moving away from the aging symbian platform towards some linux based device. Why do you think the internet tablets exist in the first place? Should I also point out that the most recent and desirable competition runs on BSD?

The real problem, however, is not the underlying os, be it linux or BSD. The real problem is the user interface and programming libraries. The most obvious and desirable competition took over 10 years building their interface, and they got a big head start from Next. Moreover, they were able to finance the development costs from their traditional computer line. Not so with Nokia (or Sony-Ericson, or Samsung, or Chinese manufacturers like HTC...), whose shareholders are probably much more interested in reaping the short terms benefits of selling cheap, simple phones by the millions.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

An english source...

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/20/n...lavor-unknown/

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Of course - but nothing stops Nokia from offering Qt bindings or something similar to detach that OS dependency from 3rd party apps, right? I haven't worked with Qt yet, so that's just guesswork on my part though...

I just thought that a move along that lines would make the Trolltech purchase a bit more logical....

I don't think they'll stop selling cheap, simple phones by the millions just because they spend money on adapting Linux to be the main OS. Just tell those pesky shareholders that this way, the company can save a lot of money in the long run otherwise spent on royalities for Symbian :p

I also doubt that Apple worked 10 years of the iPhone OS/UI, and that the synergies between the mobile version and the desktop system are all that great...

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

qtopia anyone?

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Oh, but it does; look at all the phones Sony and Motorola have that run realtime Linux under the hood, although you'd never, ever guess by looking at them.

With that kind of kernel already available, I'd think the UI (adapting or adding or what have you) is the most important part... that and applications for smartphones.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

chlettn is correct. Nokia will continue selling millions of cheap little phones while transtioning to the Next Big Thing. Anything less would certainly be a disservice to stockholders (and I'm one!). Serious investors understand this. That's why Nokia's stock didn't tank after the major re-organization last year, and why it continues to hold steady during rough economic times.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

I don't know about desirable ... I'm an old BSD fan myself (and a Nextstep/Openstep/OSX fan at that)... but, that said, there's more people pushing for Linux on phones than BSD. Motorola is already there in production. Trolltech had it on a dev. platform. Google is soon to follow into production, along with OpenMoko.

I think it's a coin toss, and Nokia already has some momentum built up toward Linux (maemo and trolltech teams). I think that's the direction the wind will blow.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

As I posted in the engadget thread:

I want to see a T-Mobile-USA WCDMA/UMTS enabled E71 ... running Maemo with Android extensions, or Android itself (I'd be happy with just Maemo though). Gimme that, and I'll be quite happy. Use the E71 for voice, SMS/MMS, PIM (since Nokia thinks that's where PIM software belongs, on the phone, not the NIT), basic note taking, maybe IM & email & web, and as a tethering point ... and then pull out my N810, or maybe an UMPC, for things that require a bit more screen space (VNC, extensive note taking, maybe IM, maybe email, maybe web, etc.).

And, while I'm wishing: it'd be nice if it had 2 SIM card slots. (1 for T-Mobile "Total Internet" and "Unlimited Domestic messaging" ... and 1 for T-Mobile Pay-Per-Day prepaid, since I don't think you can mix them on one SIM card account :-} )

And, it'd be nice if there was one E71 instead of three of them (1 for Europe/Asia, 1 for AT&T, 1 for T-Mobile-USA). It'd be nice to have one Maemo+Android running E71 that did all 3 WCDMA bands, with 2 SIM cards. But that's REALLY wishing.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Yes, but neither of these companies is going to provide Nokia with that version of Linux ;)

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Yes, Nokia can provide QT library for Symbian, running inside a lump of glue. No, having QT bindings will not automatically give you cellular stack on Linux. QT is a user interface library, not a communication stack.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

I would NOT buy a Linux phone from Nokia. I'd buy a Symbian because I'd expect closed stuff. Or an OpenMoko.

But, I bet you anything, that the Nokia Linux phones will use BB5 which will mean closed source stuff. Just like the N8*0 now, which uses BB5.

It's funny. When I arrived here, I wasn't really so bothered about Open Source but now, seeing what happens when companies close their source off, I am very bothered about open source. (but I will use commercial stuff over open source tbh)

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

@Qwerty12 - I know what you mean :P Once you go open-source you never go back. It sticks in your head to the point where you're suprised when you can't mod source code :P

I'm fine with a closed source cell phone though. All I require from my phone is good call quality and fast data servce over bluetooth. Other than that, all my mobile functionality is achieved through my N810. But for the sake of the NITs I hope Nokia moves to linux quickly, which should in theory make for better support for our tablet :)

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

BTW, Openmoko is switching to E17 and Qtopia...

http://osnews.com/story/19764/OpenMo...rom-GTK+-to-Qt

E17 i can understand but why the radical change to Qtopia?

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

'Cause let us be frank: GTK sucks as a framework. QT has its own problems (such as ABI that changes with every new version), but at least it uses C++ to manage complexity. GTK developers appear to be so averse to C++, that they have made a whole new language that looks vaguely like C++ but isn't:

http://live.gnome.org/Vala/FAQ

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

I'm aware of Vala, i also have better opinion of it than of C++, but i hadn't too much crossing points with the latter anyway.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Well, it couldn't possibly be WORSE than C++ ... poorly conceived load of crap that that language is. I mean, really, what self respecting knowledgeable programmer _defends_ C++? That's like talking about the merits of smoking: "Well, it's not as sure-fire suicide as shooting yourself in the head!"

If you want something that manages complexity use a REAL OOPL, not a half-assed OOPL that wouldn't know dynamic/late binding if it was bit in the *** by a dynamic binding runtime environment.

C++ : Programming Languages :: MS-Windows : Operating Systems

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

While this is kind of off-topic as far as this thread is concerned, I have to admit that some aspects of C++, such as data and functionality encapsulation, are actually useful, especially for a complex programming framework like GTK or QT. Claiming C++ to be a standard of OOP implementation is, of course, silly. It's not real OOP.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

QT developers: Everything must be C++!
GTK+: Everything in that language thats best for it.

For the most things C++ is overloaded and languages like python make more sense.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Which is, most of the time, C. And of course, you can bind QT to Python:

http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/.../pyqt4ref.html

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Or Vala :)

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Yup, this is the most important thing to understand.

You can't just slap an OS on top of a phone, you need to do a heck of a lot of work on the behind-the-scenes stuff such as allowing the computing part of the device talk to the telephony part. It's not a trivial task.

This is probably why the iPhone had such restricted telephony features, because Apple were totally new to the phone world and they hadn't been able to fully develop OSX as a mobile OS. It will take time for them to match the features available on existing platforms.

The success of Symbian is partly because it was developed for mobile devices from the ground up, and they've spent years enhancing it entirely with phones in mind. Symbian has never been used on anything other than phones, and it's jointly owned by mobile phone manufacturers. It's the world's most developed pure phone OS, which is why so many smartphones use it.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Even Reuters claims the same,

http://ca.reuters.com/article/techno...07696020080520

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Um... You do know that Symbian started life as Psion's SIBO and EPOC operating systems and that the only reason it's such a good telephony OS is because Psion made a heck of an OS to start with?

To say that Symbian hasn't been used on anything but phones is only correct in the sense that it wasn't called "Symbian" when it was installed on non-phones.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

I can't speak for krisse, but it seems to me that he knows that; note the distinction "developed for mobile devices" vs. "enhancing it entirely with phones in mind". Maybe I'm reading too much into it. It looks like the kind of technically correct, but minimally attention-drawing, sort of statement I make when I don't feel like explaining the whole back-story of something. It also looks like blind luck, of course.

Krisse?

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

I just wanted to make clear that Symbian wasn't so much developed for phones, as adapted to them. In that aspect at least, it's not much different from Linux. Or OSX for that matter.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

Well, I know krisse is an aas pro and I respect his knowledge and experience with Symbian but Karel Jansens is right, it was never meant for phones at the startt. It was for the Psion pdas first - never a phone. Nokia bought Symbian for their phones.

Re: Nokia will use Linux in phones?!
 

If we're being really pedantic: "Nokia *co-founded* Symbian for their phones" (OK, there were later buy-outs etc.)