Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

noooooo ok, i launched azeurus in xterm, using hilda azureus, and it started flashing a lot of text, but it never launched the window to start azureus. Is there any other way to access the files? Or see what packages are installed?

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Hey if maxzar100 can try azureus sure i can dream of monodevelop :) Thanks for the info... i may try it for novelty sake. It actually doesnt work well on an eee so its not surprising that this is probably to much bloat. I really only need 15% of the functionality so maybe i will unload some of the optional dependencies from the metapackage.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

no agogo i cant get the azuerus to work, it would be easier if THP would tell us how he got his version of debian working, it was a lot more user freindly and fast. The problem is that azuerus loads up in xterm, but then the azurus window never comes up DOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

That looks really great :eek: congratulations, but now you have to teach us how you did it, please :D.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

You're killing me, man.

You're comparing the speed of some trivial applets on a light-weight window manager to monsters like Firefox 3 and OpenOffice. "His" Debian is no more responsive than "my" Debian, because they're both Debian chroots.

I don't think you understood the demo video. The cool part was how he had a full screen window manager that he could switch to with a button on the status panel in OS2008. We've already experimented with putting a window manager "on top" of OS2008, and we weren't thrilled with the speed...

If you really crave the speed, make a new ext2 partition on your SD card and copy your chroot to there. I've found it gets better speed than this mounted file way. But you're required to know an awful lot of stuff to do that, which is exactly what I don't want here.

Please try the "Transmission" bittorrent client. I think you'll be much happier with the speed.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

sorry, the speed was just slow for me that one time for some reason, when i increased my ram it is fine. And i do apreciate the apps and the simplicity of your installer package. Think about this, a person with no previous linux knowledge (me) who started using their n800 on friday (also me) was able to install a chroot debian. That has to say something.

Are you gonna make a maemo garage project?

One bug i found, is that i am unable to download any themes or apps for iceweasel. I get a 228 error. But no biggy. Also, it would be nice if i was able to move the keyboard around, so it wouldnt always block the webpage. Is that possible?

Anyway, if i gave you an app that can get ARP packets from a wireless network, would you make the 2007 verison a 2008 version? Then everyone else could use aircrack ptw. the program is called wlaninject. here is the link to the maemo garage site. OMG PACKET INJECTION MAYBE?

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Some steps I did to get the setup as depicted in the video:

- Mounting/setting up the chroot is via a python script (automatically detects if the chroot is already set up, will carry out the necessary actions to set it up - given the image file name - in case it's not done already)
- The launcher executes a session script inside the chroot which will take over the screen via a fullscreen Xephyr, place the icon on :0 (the icon will simply bring Xephyr to the front) and launch a windowmaker session inside Xephyr
- The windowmaker session has a special icon which will call another script that will switch back to the maemo desktop without shutting down the chroot session
- When the windowmaker session ends, the icon will be removed and xephyr closed

I'd post my scripts, but they are quite hack-ish at the moment. If one would take the time and clean them up and package them, you'd simply install one .deb for OS2008, place a disk image _anywhere_ (i.e. on mmc1 or mmc2 or usb, ...) and have the scripts manage everything. For the chroot, you either distribute the scripts I wrote inside the image (needs downloading of the image the first time) or simply provide a .deb for the Debian chroot that will be installed there.

Also, I'd like to do something like starting completely from scratch with debootstrap to create a debian chroot image "from scratch" without editing the Debian tarball that is used as a basis for this chroot environment (that's also what I currently use as a basis).

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Thanks. Like I said, we (debernardis and I) have been experimenting with Xephyr and xfce4 (a simple script here), but we're not Python hackers, so things like icons in the OS 2008 status bar are beyond us. It looks like WindowMaker is probably better than xfce4; more snappy.

That would be magnificent. If you scan back through this thread, you'll see that I've been looking for a scripter to get the scripts all cleaned up and working well. My stuff is so kludgy and ham-handed.

Earlier in the thread, I posted a basic Debian Sid debootstrap tarball; this is the rootfs created by debootstrap, with nothing installed yet (it is actually a bzip2 file). I later posted a completely empty, ext2 formatted image file. You mount the empty image file, and then untar the "clean" rootfs inside the mounted image.

The first thing you need to do when chrooting to this is "apt-get update", "apt-get install locales" and then "dpkg-reconfigure locales", otherwise apt-get will give you lots of locale errors every time you try to install something. But after that, you can build yourself any application set you want.

hmmm maybe this will help even more.
 

Do you think, if i added 1gb of virtual ram, out of my 8gb card, open office would run faster? I might try that and see how it helps. I found the code

First create a swap file like you do it normally (from the Control Panel).

Then run a XTerm and do these commands:

Code:

swapoff /media/mmc1/.swap
dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/.swap bs=1024 count=256000
mkswap /media/mmc1/.swap
swapon /media/mmc1/.swap

The second command is specifying the size of the swap, here it is close to 256MB, you can tweak it to your liking. This operation can also take very long time so be patient.

After restart it should remain the same size. It will reset probably if you mess again with the swap settings in Control Panel.

wow, now i can allocate as much ram as a Desktop PC!!!!

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

@maxzar100: I don't think this will give the boost you expect. When I didn't know yet that pdf were not functioning in ooo because the tempfs was too small, I tried to increase virtual memory to 256Megs the way you did. This was ineffective and ooo started as slow as with 128 Megs swapfile.

@thp:
I'd like to play with your scripts - really because I liked so much your smooth starting of chroot and the way you went to and fro from the xephyr window to the hildon one. Please post. Nobody is less literate than me in python here but at least maybe I'll be able to learn something from them. Thanks :-)

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

yeah i would like to play with them too, mainly because of the moveable keyboard. Dont worry, ive never touched a linux device in my life untill a few days ago, theres no way you could be less literate then me.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Some good news. OpenOffice.org has been bumped to version 1:2.4.1-3, and it no longer has packaging errors. Iceweasel (Firefox) 3 has been put in the main Debian repositories too, at version 3.0~rc2-2, which is only one revision away from Firefox 3.0 final (they just released rc3 as final).

I'll also be posting a clean Debian image in the next 24 hours with all the right pieces in place to make the chroot script work, but with a very minimal installed application list. This will allow hackers and such to install whatever they want without worrying about running out of space.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

That would be great. Also, is there anyway to make the keyboard move around.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

About unmounting: I found that killing all chrooted programs like this:


for i in [0-9]* ; do if ls -dl $i/root | grep -q /opt ; then kill $i ; fi ; done


And then unmounting in the correct order (basically reversed order of mounting), works everytime.

Now if there was only a way to prevent apt-get in the chroot from killing external daemons (ssh, hal, etc.), it would be great.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Yes, the Matchbox-Keyboard doesn't move around. I included it because it iis the only Debian virtual keyboard that that I've found that is usable with OS2008.

Your best bet for a little keyboard that you can make disappear when you want it to is the xkbd port. You want the OS2008 version. If you install it, you maybe should use debernardis' method given here.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Ok, here is a minimal Debian image, with locales installed and no hacks ("dpkg-reconfigure locales" still required for non-English locales). I've also installed ssh server so you can use this trick to ssh into your chroot and work on it remotely (even using x forwarding!)

You'll need to untar it and put it in the same place as the app-filled image. Use my instructions here.

Minimal-Install 1GB Debian Image

If you want the apps from the original package, and you are tight on space on your SD card, and you don't want to install anything else, here's a smaller image (730MB instead of 1GB) with all of the applications. It has no spare room for any more apps, however. It is purely an appliance for OpenOffice, AbiWord, and Iceweasel.

730MB Debian Application Image

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

By the way, for anyone interested in trying out thp's setup (but, sadly, without the polish of his python-script-enhanced version), you'll need the following three packages:

• xserver-xephyr (to put the secondary window manager over OS2008)
• wmaker (the Window Maker desktop)
• xvkbd (the "movable" virtual keyboard shown in the demo)

Write a script similar to the one under "Xephyr Method" in this post, and then have fun.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Will be posting my scripts sometime this week. Currenly busy with maths exam preparation, but then in the course of the week I'll take some time to do it. Please PM me at the end of this week in case I forget :)

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

For those who use Johnx's beta3 debian rootfs (like me), please be aware that the last update tries to reinstall the (infamous) mtd - resulting in a malfunctioning apt-get with the practical impossibility to get rid of mtd from your chroot.

So, before updating-upgrading, better put mtd on hold:

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Just thought I'd drop into this thread and report that I had complete success with the image files and deb installer and it is working flawlessly on my n800.

Next question - is there a nice way to expand the ext2 file to be larger for more playroom? I suppose ideally, I should just make a ext2 part. on my SD, but I kind of like the ability to store various image states easily on the HD.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

I would like to know if this is possible, too. So far, I have been tarring up my chroot (the filesystem, not the image file), making a new image file or untarring the empty 1GB one, mounting the empty image, and then untarring the chroot back into the new file. That's really slow...

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Doing a little google'n, seems there is a way with resize2fs - which is missing from Maemo, but ironically is on the Debian file. I tried copying it off the Debian file system and moving it over to Maemo's /sbin and it appears to run. I haven't reboot to unmount the image, but I bet this will work.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

I have spent the (Canadian long) weekend learning how to do if-then statements in shell scripts so that the chroot script is much faster and much more flexible (you can put your image on either SD card and it figures it out, and it can handle ext3 file systems now), figuring out how to give the Xephyr window an icon in OS2008 (using a tiny Python program! it works!), and modifying a script by PenguinBait (thanks, PenguinBait!) to download and untar the big chroot image file automatically, without having to know how to use the command line. It has been a very productive weekend. I should have an updated .deb very soon; I think I'm almost ready to start a new thread and make the big announcement...

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Played around with installing some applications (well, mainly games ;) - gotta keep productivity up) and thought I report my hits and fails if anyone else is interested.

• Lordsawar - this is a Warlords 2 clone which runs amazingly well on the NIT, even though it appears to partially be programmed for 800x600 for some parts (like the introduction screen). While in game, I could not see anything "missing" and everything - minus naming a save file - is sylus driven. All in all, I'd say it is quite a success (and perhaps I'll need to figure out how to re-compile things and get it running under raw Maemo).
  
  
• Pingus - I did not realize that there was already a Maemo port of this, however the debian install worked great with a few command line options (I ran with pingus -f -g 800x480 -s -m). The -s and -m is due to lacking of having SDL mixer installed, but likely would work with those. The screen updates were completely usable, at least in the first level I played, at 800x480 full screen.
  
  
• kg - Sounded promising; an RPG similar to the Final Fantasy series. It ran, however it definitely needs some keyboard loving and unfortunately I don't have a floating keyboard installed yet since my reinstall. All in all, likely promising, especially for n810 folks.
  
  
• falconseye - Why stop at nethack, or at least so I thought. It appears it only runs in 800x600 (I couldn't find a option to change it) and I cannot get past the first screen as the button to continue is hidden. However, as the source is available, this may be a good candidate for some mucking to get it scaled down and running in Maemo.
  
  
• xconq - This turn-based strategy appears to be running and fitting on the tablet. To be honest, I didn't muck with it much, but nothing obvious was cut off and the speed appears to be quite usable.
  
  
• milkytracker - This is a mod/IT/XM/etc. music tracker. It loads - it appears to be fitting relatively on the screen (perhaps things missing on the bottom?) - however, I need to get sdl-mixer installed to see if it will play. Likely won't be wonderfully usable without a real keyboard though...

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Another useful debian install --> mp3info-gtk which is a mp3 tagger, one kind of app that's lacking as far as I know for the IT. After installing, you can call it from the command line with "gmp3info". Then, you can craft a .desktop file.

But, really, better start another thread for debian apps. Much better, another forum section for debian?

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

I would vote for another sub-form -- there is more possible threads for Debian than KDE, which has it's own, and it is a discrete, different environment and not really proper for "Apps".

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Me three. I have no idea how to request such a thing, however...

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Me four. Just PM Reggie. Someone did that and he put up a whole new section for Android. ;) And Debian is so much farther along, I don't think he'll say no.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

I am putting together a new apps package for the big release. I want to include a lightweight WM for use with Xephyr and my new little Python script so that apps like OpenOffice will look their best.

While Window Maker is certainly lightweight, it is really too minimalistic to be usable by most newbies. xfce4 is nice, but it is almost too big and bloaty. I haven't tried JWM nor ICEWM, but I think I will end up choosing one of them. ICEWM has the benefit of looking like MS Windows, and the newbie crowd that I'm aiming for with this project will probably appreciate a familiar-looking WM...

Any comments on this?

EDIT: I'm going with IceWM because it is tiny and familiar unless someone can tell me why I should go with another one...

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Me five, and now it's done. Here's how. :p

(I was going to PM Reggie about it in a day or so if he hadn't done something about it, but I thought discussion on the other proposals I made could be useful, too, so I did that first. Of course, Reggie never sleeps, so he got it already. :cool:)

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Icewm is good, light and very configurable - very nice look just out of the box! Go with it :-)

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Argh. I am trying to build a fresh chroot with all of the applications + xephyr and icewm. I ran out of space when trying to build it in my 1 GB image file, so I've sacrificed my bootable debian partition and I'm building it there. When it's done, I'll put it in the image file.

It gets really really ugly if you run out of space in the middle of a big apt-get install process.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

icewm looks awesome, also, if possible can you include another blank .ex2 partion with bigger space so we can add apps? or will it fit on this one.

and please include gimp if you can.

thanks,
maxzar100

p.s. im working on getting a lite version of xp to work on the tablet. I have this iso of xp hackers edition the iso is only like 500 mb, and the actuall files needed to run windows come out to be about 2.4gb so its possible. we shall see soon....

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

What will you be using to emulate the x86 processor to run XP?

I still need to test whether that resize2fs will work and not be painfully slow on the NIT+SD as I had this fun a couple times.
On the aspect of Window Managers, I tried out Enlightment on the Nokia and it seems to fly pretty well - a better experience than I did with XFCE and KDE - at least once I got the main enlightenment menu remapped to a hardware key.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

I saw your Enlightenment screenshot. I must say it looks very nice. I have noticed that, while IceWM is tiny and fast, a big problem with IceWM is that there is really no GUI configuration available. It looks like you have to do all of your configuration in text files! Perhaps Enlightenment might be better? Does it have a GUI config?

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Depends what aspects you want to configure - things like color/themes/wallpapers or even the keybinder and whatnot are GUI configurable - the keybinder is a biggy since you can then map a hard key to run a command (such as that KDE right click script - which works great in Enlightenment as expected).

With that said, I have not located a way to modify the menus via the GUI - although such a beast probably does exist. There are quite a few "epplets" that add various functionality.

Now as far as resources used, I never really used Icewm before, but I get the general impression that it is lighter than enlightenment. Speedwise though - I found enlightenment to be very usable. I believe the install took maybe 8megs for the whole shebang, so I'd recommend taking a glance.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

there is a bochs emulator for tablets, and dosbox witch works with 98 and 95. So im trying to get a light version of xp to work. Im making the image with dosbox on my pc first.

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

XP is NT, while 9x are DOS-based; dosbox does not have full compatibility, but enough for DOS-like systems. I seriously doubt XP will work at all (that way).

Re: Running Debian in a chroot
 

Looks like the current version of Iceweasel installs extensions -- I was able to install the Adblock Plus and del.icio.us extensions. I haven't tried themes.

I think the problem before was that Mozilla wasn't officially supporting FF 3.0, so they were letting you attempt to install stuff for FF 2.0, and it was failing. That's my guess.

Resizing the debian.img.ext2 image
 

I finally after running into the "out of space" jazz again decided to try the resize2fs ordeal, and it worked!

Step by step (in case anyone needs more details)

• I opened up a Debian shell and copied /sbin/resize2fs over to /media/mmc1 and then under an OS2008 shell (as root) copied it from mmc1 over to OS2008's sbin. (and I think I had to chmod a+x resize2fs since the FAT SD killed the execute bit)
• I rebooted, since I am too lazy to ensure the image is properly unmounted.
• After rebooting, in an OS2008 shell (as root) I typed: "resize2fs /media/mmc1/debian.img.ext 1512M" - the 1512M can be changed, of course, to whatever your target size is.
• Afterwards, I ran "e2fsck -f /media/mmc1/debian.img.ext2" to ensure there were no errors in the file system (I found a few, but they were fixed).
• Install, install, install. :)

Warning: Before others do my "opps", remember that FAT doesn't like files larger than 2gb!

Loving this chmod bit, Qole!