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-   OS2008 / Maemo 4 / Chinook - Diablo (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=29)
-   -   windows mobile emulator on maemo (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20862)

qwerty12 2008-06-17 06:49

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Might I also suggest copying the Nokia Sans font from the device to at least use the right font for the title ;) :p

OSEmuTech 2008-06-17 08:37

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by josiahg777 (Post 192765)
@OSEmuTech - May I humbly suggest using photoshop's "Clone" or "blur" tool to remove embarrassing signs of a photoshop job such as the off-color box of color behind the "Windows Mobile Emulator" text? :D

I is a poor college student who can not afford to go to school. Please feel free to donate Photoshop so I can continue to refine my awesome "Windows Mobile Emulator for Maemo" project. My unconceived children thank you!

OSEmuTech 2008-06-17 08:40

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qwerty12 (Post 192773)
Might I also suggest copying the Nokia Sans font from the device to at least use the right font for the title ;) :p

Doh! That sounds like more than 5 minutes worth of work. :p

Is the Nokia Sans font covered under copyright laws? Ah ... nevermind. I'd hate to see this thread morph into such a debate. :D

anidel 2008-06-17 12:44

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
OSEmuTech how the heck did you overclocked your tablet to 416Mhz !?!?!?
I want to do that too!!!

So that's real! Windows CAN make your device faster!

;)

andrewfblack 2008-06-17 12:53

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Yeah I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this but thats what makes forums fun but there is a verison of Windows CE for Embedded for ARM proccessors so in theroy couldn't someone get this working. Of course it would be free link most people want it to be.

Red 2008-06-17 12:57

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
KJ's antics remind me of the famous thread over at the A/V forums on watercooling.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56924

sjgadsby 2008-06-17 15:19

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewfblack (Post 192805)
...there is a verison of Windows CE for Embedded for ARM proccessors so in theroy couldn't someone get this working.

In theory, yes, but the probability is low.

andrewfblack 2008-06-17 15:33

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 192841)
In theory, yes, but the probability is low.

Yeah I know I just wanted to say it is Possible just not probable.

bunanson 2008-06-17 16:44

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Red (Post 192806)
KJ's antics remind me of the famous thread over at the A/V forums on watercooling.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56924

This is a required READing for anyone that have problem in laughing. And be forewarned, dont read it while you have anything in your mouth, you will choke to death! Watercool a PC to get rid of the fan noise, what a genius idea..................Was the original volkswagon beetle air cooled instead of watercooled? So there was some similarities :rolleyes: ....he forgot to use water-proofed SDram....


bun

qole 2008-10-01 22:10

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Sigh, now that Benson linked here, I've come back and realized that OSEmuTech actually did what I wanted and posted a screenshot of WinMo in VNC. (I didn't have auto-subscribe turned on at the time I posted my request.)

A couple of questions:

1) Is that really the resolution of a typical WinMo device? It looks microscopic on the N800!
2) Are there any 800x480 WinMo devices out there? What about 400x240?
3) Is there any way to emulate a 800x480 (or pixel-doubled 400x240) WinMo device on a PC and then use VNC to display it fullscreen on the N800?

Benson 2008-10-01 22:22

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
1) Yeah, QVGA is not awesome. It's fairly typical.
2) Well, the Axim X51v has a VGA screen (about the same pitch as the N800, in fact), and some others do, too. 800x480 is much rarer; the only device I've heard of is the HTC Touch HD.
3) I know the device emulator will happily emulate that resolution. As for VNC, well, of course. The emulator's not the awesomest thing in the world, of course; VNC over BT to a real WM device would probably be more useful. (And more expensive...)

If you really want screenshots, I can probably get some together... I don't have VNC on my laptop, and I don't have the winmo device emulator on my desktop.

Benson 2008-10-01 23:56

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Ok, here it is...

qole 2008-10-02 00:05

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Hilarious. Thanks again, Benson.

eiffel 2008-10-02 13:01

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson (Post 229494)
800x480 is much rarer; the only device I've heard of is the HTC Touch HD

Windows Mobile at 800x480 is also found on the Toshiba G900 and Toshiba G910/G920 (although with their tiny 3.0 inch displays, there's not much point).

Bundyo 2008-10-02 14:55

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Not that Touch HD display will be much bigger :)

eiffel 2008-10-02 15:04

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
If you consider the screen surface area (not just the screen diagonal), the Touch HD has 60% more surface area than the Toshiba 800x480s. The NITs have 18% more surface area than the Touch HD, and 89% more surface area than the Toshibas.

jackdoor 2008-10-02 15:36

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Why are so many people against having a windows mobile emulator, it must be better than garnet and even if its not its still something that people would like to try.

Benson 2008-10-02 16:20

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jackdoor (Post 229719)
Why are so many people against having a windows mobile emulator, it must be better than garnet and even if its not its still something that people would like to try.

I don't think anyone's against it, really; I'm sure if Microsoft produced one, a lot of people would use it. But we all know that won't happen.

jackdoor 2008-10-02 17:24

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Well cant somebody make an emulator?

BrentDC 2008-10-02 17:34

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jackdoor (Post 229770)
Well cant somebody make an emulator?

No, the majority of people prefer not being sued :D That is assuming the years of reverse engineering required to make this project barely usable work...

Benson 2008-10-02 17:37

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Of course someone can; anything can be reverse-engineered and reproduced. But does it make any sense?

You mentioned the GVM; that wasn't the work of "somebody", that was from Access, the owners of Garnet, and is part of their business plan. So they have an easier time (because they have Garnet to start from), and more incentive (to make money). "Somebody" has neither of those advantages, so it's quite unlikely that someone's going to invest the time to do it.

Still, if you think it's really worth it, get started. Whatever investment you may have to put into learning up-front is outweighed by the size of the project, so you're as qualified as the next guy.

jackdoor 2008-10-02 17:53

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
I'm not a programmer so I don't know how much work s involved but it seems like a lot, because if I was I would be interested in making a windows emulator.

Karel Jansens 2008-10-02 19:53

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jackdoor (Post 229784)
I'm not a programmer so I don't know how much work s involved but it seems like a lot, because if I was I would be interested in making a windows emulator.

It would probably be easier (although not much) to "port" wine to the ARM architecture.

BrentDC 2008-10-02 20:18

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karel Jansens (Post 229847)
It would probably be easier (although not much) to "port" wine to the ARM architecture.

I imagine that would be harder still...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wine Website
Well, it is true that Wine only runs on Intel's x86 processors. Unfortunately it will also require quite a lot of work before it runs on other processor architectures.

But what do we mean by 'running on a non x86 processor'.

First it can mean 'I can compile a Windows application on Sparc, link it with Winelib, and have it run on Solaris'. I know, this is not what you had in mind. This may seem very restrictive and yet would be very useful: it means easy porting of Windows applications to almost any Unix architecture. In any case this is the first step towards allowing Wine to run on other processor architectures. Unfortunately Wine's code is not very portable to other processor architectures, partly because some parts of it have to know a lot about the processor, and partly because most of it makes assumptions like 'sizeof(int)==sizeof(pointer)' and 'byte-sex==little-endian'. This is being worked on though, and progress is being made albeit slowly.

Then we could take it to mean 'Wine on Alpha should be able to run Windows NT Alpha applications'. The prerequisite for this is that Winelib compiles on Alpha (or MIPS, the other defunct Windows NT platform). Now, would it be really useful? I don't think many people have Windows NT applications for the Alpha or MIPS processor. So this is probably not that useful and also rather unlikely to happen since we would need a programmer who has just this combination of hardware and software to work on it.

Then there's what everyone has been waiting for: 'I want to be able to run my x86 Windows applications on any processor architecture I like. That's the most complex one. Again the prerequisite is that Winelib works on this architecture, which will definitely happen someday. Then 'all that is needed' is to integrate an x86 emulator with Wine (and also change Wine's name :-). Ulrich Weigand just did that as an experiment some time ago when he had 'some spare time'. He even managed to get some Win16 applications to run. His code was not in a state where it could be integrated into Wine yet and I don't know how much work has been put into pursuing it. His attempt did spark many discussions on Wine's mailing list though. The result is that we would need a sophisticated emulator including a JIT in order to get something really viable (i.e. not too slow). And developing such an emulator is a whole project in itself.
Does it mean it will never happen? Not sure. Maybe we'll get some motivated developers once the Winelib problems are solved. Of course, it would happen much faster if, for instance, Compaq made its Fx32! Intel x86 emulator Open Source and financed the development of Wine for their Alpha machines. As with all Open Source projects, if enough people are interested and pool their resources together, it will happen.


Johnx 2008-10-03 13:58

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jackdoor (Post 229784)
I'm not a programmer so I don't know how much work s involved but it seems like a lot, because if I was I would be interested in making a windows emulator.

"Being a programmer" is not the same as "being a human" or "being a tree:" It's not something you're born with and it's never too late to learn. For this project you're in luck, because "learning how to program" would be pretty easy compared to reverse engineering the whole Windows Mobile API and reimplementing it from scratch in a "clean room" (without using or seeing any of Microsoft's code).

-John

tom61 2008-10-07 03:00

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Wow, the WINE FAQ hasn't been updated in some time(or whichever part of the website you found it on). Alpha processors and NT4 for Alpha being a significant discussion topic is almost humorous now. Long since that entry was made, people started bolting QEmu to WINE to run Windows x86 apps on non-x86 architectures. See http://bellard.org/qemu/qemu-doc.html#SEC69

It still wouldn't help much, as emulating x86 is slow by itself, then emulating ARM via the Windows Mobile SDK emulator would grind things to a crawl.

However, emulating an entire device, particularly with a dynarec core, would be fairly practical. I stumbled across an emulator for a specific iPaq some time ago, it was meant as debugging tool for ARM Linux on that platform, but was complete enough to boot the Windows Mobile ROM for it. Porting that and optimizing that would be far less intensive than making a full-blown API wrapper, though it'd be of questionable legality (HP has the rights to the ROM, I suppose it'd fall under fair-use if you owned the iPaq in question).

Still a bit too much effort for Age of Empires, Slay and a few other Windows Mobile apps, IMO, though.

eliagp 2008-10-07 03:08

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
I want an ms-office compatible app. the rest is just padding.

qole 2008-10-07 06:19

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
yeah, wouldn't openoffice be nice?

Thesandlord 2008-10-07 07:01

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Oh, but OpenOffice is too bloated. Normal people can't be expected to use that! And you have to do complicated stuff like "dual-boot" and "Deblet" and stuff. Oh no, way to hard.

Or, just install Documents2Go on GarnetVM. Done. (ok, so you have to email it or bluetooth it to yourself, or wait until Access adds memory card support....)

Johnx 2008-10-07 13:25

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Of course the simplest thing of all for something ms-office compatible would be to just finish abiword. It's most of the way there already. Best of all it doesn't involve legal grey areas, CPU emulation or OpenOffice's giant code base...

phutterman 2008-10-07 20:49

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Yeah, OO.o is waaay too slow. AbiWord is usably fast on the tablets.

I want to find just a .doc viewer...I don't even need to edit them most of the time, it would just be nice to be able to look at them. I would've sworn there was one for the ITs at one point, but I haven't come across it in a long time.

Also, there's always Google Docs.

For running other Windows stuff, there's always the possibility of rdesktop/VNC/etc to a machine running windows; that sidesteps much of the problem, if your connection is adequate.

speculatrix 2008-10-07 21:00

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by phutterman (Post 231429)
just a .doc viewer...I don't even need to edit them most of the time, it would just be nice to be able to look at them

if you kept an eye on maemo.org you'd have seen that evince was being paraded as a jewel on the home page :p
http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/evince/

"Evince is a document viewer for multiple document formats. It currently supports pdf, postscript, djvu, cb, cbr, cbz, tiff and dvi."

Benson 2008-10-07 21:02

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Well, that still needs something to translate from .doc to one of those formats (most likely PDF).

qole 2008-10-07 21:06

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
If you just want a MS Office doc viewer, but you don't want to mess around with Debian (oh come on, you know you want to!), you can always try Bundyo's "Biggest Viewer of them All", it will convert all types of MS documents to PDFs.

Benson 2008-10-07 21:13

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qole (Post 231440)
If you just want a MS Office doc viewer, but you don't want to mess around with Debian (oh come on, you know you want to!), you can always try Bundyo's "Biggest Viewer of them All", it will convert all types of MS documents to PDFs.

Which is just OOo, which I thought was what some people were trying to get away from. There's no help for it; the only countermeasures against the bloated evil empire are available from the bloated not-evil empire. :(

Install Debian and be happy! ;)

qole 2008-10-07 22:22

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
Well yes, of course, that's my song too. Easy Debian "just works" to bring you all the apps you want without much hassle. However, some people only want MS Office compatibility. If so, then the Big Viewer (yes, it uses OpenOffice's conversion library) might be for you.

speculatrix 2008-10-07 23:28

Re: windows mobile emulator on maemo
 
links of interest for converting stuff to pdf

http://www.ros.co.nz/pdf/
http://www.fpdf.org/
http://www.tecnick.com/public/code/c...aiocp_dp=tcpdf
http://www.lowagie.com/iText/
http://framework.zend.com/manual/en/zend.pdf.html


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