Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Michael Arrington's just posted this on TechCrunch.

I'm missing the part where the n800 doesn't already meet all of his requirements? Is he talking about a device with a larger screen? I guess he wants something thinner?

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

We don't have 512MiB RAM, and it sounds like he doesn't even want a d-pad. But it seems like close enough...

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

$200 target price... good luck, dude.

Looks like he's wanting one of those 'internet appliances' that were being sold a few years back, but thin and wifi'd... Why anyone would want anything so non-functional is beyond me, but I guess for $200...

Where's the sound supposed to come from...? And from the specs he doen't appear to be interested in any video support... hmm.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

my impression is a slate tablet pc, stripped to the bone, booting directly to firefox in full screen mode...

15" screen, intel atom, 512mb ram.

hmm, maybe just a scaled up mid would do?

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Yeah, "Good luck with that $200 price tag" was also my first thought.

I have to say that I'd personally love a superslim IT that's a bit bigger than the N810 though, maybe with a 7-8" screen or so.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Ah, glad someone here already posted this.

As much as it will be a near certainty that folks here will look at thier N8x0 devices and ask "what the heck," lets call to mind several aspects of the Maemo/IT project that have to make you wonder...

1. If the IT was marketed better, would there have been a need for antoher another group to start another internet tablet efffort?
2. If UX/UI issues were *not* an issue, would there be a need to look elsewhere except in the case of competitors?
3. A browser-based device that relies on the browser as the main UI component and manages most aspects of UI chrome means that app developers would have to concentrate on building programs? Like the Kindle, it will be niche as all get out, but could there might be more apps and faster with that aspect of things handled?
4. The price point is quite realistic given what the OLPC was able to do; does the IT and its current competitors (iTouch, Mylo, etc.) need to respond in kind by dropping their processes?
5. What does this post say about the posiviity of open source development to solve a problem that larger companies have more of a problem solving (speaking from the project initation phase aspect of identifying a problem and rallying stakeholders so that momentum can be realized into something sooner rather than later when that momentum matters none)?
6. What does this say about the speed of Maemo development (not a knock in terms of the question, but developers, Nokia, and hackers have to ask 'what the heck' if so many others are throwing their hats into doing something new where there is already something established)?

Just somethings on the brain. We are an intelligent bunch here, I'm sure things can stay civil ;)

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

I dunno. I see all kinda comments on that website like "I'd buy this at $500", or "$400", even "$800" or whatever... jeebus, you can buy a full blown laptop for that much, who in their right mind would pay that much for something that does nothing but surf the web, and doesn't even fit in your pocket???

Hmm, a $200 web browser. Sounds like a real bargain...

@ARJWright - I don't see the need to even bring Nokia's alleged "poor marketing" of the tablets into this thread. This $200 web browser isn't remotely in the same idea sphere as an IT. As far as the "positivity of the open source development... yada yada yada"... er, let's see the $200 web browser first, then we can all sing cumbaya.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Actually, they are aware of the NITs, and apparently think they're not half-bad, just not the right size...at least that's how I read a lot of comments regarding the N8x0 on there, like the following (second two commenters are from crunchgear.com afaik):

Anyway, to be honest, I'm sceptical of open-source hardware design in general. Even if they gain enough community momentum now and keep that momentum long enough to actually produce a prototype, it will take them at least the better part of 2 years to come that far I'd assume. In that time, a lot of things can happen in the commercial market...

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

It seems to me that building an el cheapo subtablet isn't exactly rocket science (anymore). If the people who are now developing the Pandora had left out the keypad, they'd have made one in basically under two years from idea to realisation, without any big corporation and without containers full of money.

The main problem for a tablet, and especially a subtablet, is the user interface first and useful applications second. This is where Nokia's tablets really suck: The user interface was designed without any vision or "grand plan" and the applications are basically retaylored Linux desktop applications. The only people who are content with these tablets are apparently either Linux sysadmins who like to have a portable terminal and people who are only interested in looking at content, not creating it.

OTOH, I see applications around me that might become killer apps for these subtablets. Take e.g. EverNote, a note-taking, information collecting application that outperforms Microsoft's OneNote in all aspects. A tablet version of such an app could -- nay: Is! -- immensely useful, provided that tablet has an efficient text entry system (and for a tablet that means HWR). It is flexible enough that most people won't even need a dedicated PIM and with the new connected features it has entered the "Cloud Era" as well.

There must be other such applications; I'm still thinking about LyX and its flexible screen display system and powerful typesetting background as a tablet alternative for the ubiquitous word processor); something like ArtRage2 that caters for the artistic tablet user (I'm not saying ArtRage2 should be ported, but a program that provides a subset of features would find eager customers)...

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Well not to start an argument, but efficient and integrated note taking isn't high on the priority list for many people who simply want a device to surf the web, play a few games, listen to music, maybe do some emails and chats. Fer instance... the device about which this thread is discussing - the enthusiastic commenters over there - for the most part - aren't 'power users', 'developers', sys admins or what not.

Frankly for all this rabble rabble about getting Word document and spreadsheet functionality, PIM suites and even advanced notetaking apps on the tablets, sure there's a market for that but if I'm gonna edit documents and do spreadsheets... sorry, I'm using an actual laptop, not a 4" screen and tiny keys. For people like me, tablets like the N800, and this $200 web browser - dare I say even an iPhone - aren't productivity tools, they are leisure devices.

I think that's something that Nokia 'gets' about it's tablets, that is oft overlooked by people here.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

I read this article last night and thought exactly what probably everyone here thought, "Hey, isn't that the N8x0 he's talking about but with a bigger screen?".

I gotta say that this is a genius marketing move by Arrington.

Making it an open source hardware creates buzz for the product. There will probably be follow up articles, informal polls, etc...basically generating more interesting content for his websites.

If this inexpensive internet tablet that caters to the larger market does succeed, it means more people going online, which circles back to more hits for TechCrunch.


Whether or not the product succeeds does not really matter. Arrington already wins.


I'm eager to see how this experiment turns out.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

ok, i got an idea.

we know that beagleboard can run maemo, right?

grab one 15" touchscreen.

attach a beagleboard and battery on the back.

hook it all up and boot maemo.

presto ;)

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

The difference is into getting latest HW (and i'm not talking only about the processor) at lower prices. Including the manufacturing process. Pandora uses the 35xx which has larger footprint. Small differences, but in the end what makes up for few extra millimeters here and there.


I think the 5 steps vision has not been a secret for some time, you are just too impatient :-)

I think we are starting only now -maybe- to have available HW that is somehow close to what 770 would have been if we had had the chance to really implement it according to our wishes.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

You don't need the latest hardware for good ui and useful applications. In some respects for example the old Apple Newtons are still superior as Sean Luke has argued here and here. I think it would be very interesting if they manage to pull this off without any 5 year plan with 'steps'.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

You beat me to it. Which of the five steps is the one called: "Develop temporary crappy UI and do not include useful applications"?

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

I really don't have much of a beef with the hardware, even that of the 770. Save the silly LCD throughput feckup, the Itablets have very nice hardware indeed. It's the rest that suxx.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Here if I disagree with you is about the HW, it suxx as well, at least from the standpoint of what we would really like to deliver.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

The UI is what it is, but you should rather ask the relevant question: which of the steps is "Develop a clean UI which goes beyond the one inherited almost for free from the desktop"?

Not that you are going to get an answer from me to such question, but at least you would have asked the right thing.

About the useful application, it was stated that part of the experiment with making the tablets was also to see how much the community would have been able to provide for itself.

On that side we have seen quite good examples.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Karel,

Have you looked at Notecase?

I've found that except for the "cloud" it performs all of the tasks my Palm Memos / Outlook Notes handled.

I currently run it off my N800 and off my desktop(pointing to the file on the SD Card in the N800)


Evernote on the N8x0 would be cool however....;)

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

is there not a app caalled maemopad+ that does tree based notes?

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Don't Liqbase and its potential descendents have the evernote note-taking aspect of things covered?

I think that the key word in the original article is "thin". Isn't this a patented Mac word? I think he is setting us up for an Apple tablet that he has heard about. Maybe it's paranoia, but who sits around daydreaming about something really thin? Someone really thin maybe, but not something. It was Steve Jobs with that thin Mac who tried to parlay thinness into something significant.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

For $200? I think not.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

I tried Notecase; it did funky things with the HWR -- make that "funkiER" and it had none of the features Evernote has, save that it stores handwritten notes. And seriously, "as good as Palm Memo" is hardly a recommendation...

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

There are many applications on the Itablet that do that. None of them very well though.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Not really. If you have a spare tablet lying around, I suggest you install a trial version of PenOffice and Evernote. That should give you an idea of what Evernote can do.

I like the idea. I doubt I'll buy one however; the "iPhone-like keyboard" got me right off it. Do people even realize how much screen real estate gets sacrificed for a usable onscreen keyboard? PenOffice HWR takes away exactly zero percent of the screen (well, that's not true; the ink of your writing does obscure a few pixels temporarily).

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Karel,

I'm afraid you're correct. A quick search for Linux HWR only comes up with other posts of yours ranting about the lack of support :)

You seem to spend a lot of time complaining about how much time it takes to get things done on these devices :). It's kind of a surprise that someone like you would purchase something like an n810. I'm not complaining, I like reading your posts.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

I complain out of love.

Oh, and I don't have a N810, and never will. I own a 770 and a N800.

And yes, I also have a BT keyboard. My ranting is not because I only want HWR, but because I'm firmly convinced that modeless, preferrably cursive-aware HWR (as the Newtons have) is the most natural, the most efficient and the least intrusive way to input text on a tablet when there's no keyboard around (like, oh, when you put the thing in your pocket and go walkabout?).

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

If he really wants something that just runs a browser and skype, why does he care that in runs on linux? And why the need for all that ram and flash?

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

I would imagine that there are loads and loads of people who, like me, want a slightly bigger n800. 5x8 would be fantastic. I don't care about fitting the thing in my pocket. That's why I have a man purse.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

feel free to write it then ;)

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

I actually find inputting text on my bumpy Treo keyboard surprisingly natural-feeling and fast.

And btw, responding to a comment above: I tried Evernote a loooong time ago, probably at least a couple of years.

I prefer memory-mapping style notes, or at least as close as I can get to that. My ultimate notepad would be something like mindmeister (www.mindmeister.com) optimized for the tablet.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

i fear those mindmapping apps as it would probably turn into a gordian knot of links if i tried.

i keep seeing links where there may not be any...

still, i do think there is a mindmapping app available for the N8*0 now. cant say anything about its quality tho...

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Okay, I know there's a smiley there, but this rant can't be stopped:

"If you want it, write it yourself," has to be the lamest excuse for an argument ever. Are you seriously claiming that only programmers and/or developers are allowed to express criticism about software, whether it be Open Source or not?

If so, please feel free to find yourself the top edge of a nice, high cliff and take a firm step forward.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

I didn't write that, but...

I'm not claiming that only programmers can express criticism about software, but I'd claim that only programmers can fix it! So... if it bothers you enough (and you can't get it fixed otherwise), you'd better become a programmer and fix it before it drives you mad. Perhaps a little late for that, though. :p

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Well I've never used this excuse.. but still.. the only people? No.. but if you want to be impatient over it then the "Do it yourself" or DITY method is always an option for you..

Otherwise you wait for the official developers/programmers to fix the stuff. And since it's open source.. and most 3rd party OS developers don't make a lot of cash.. expecting a one day turnaround is silly.. and complaining about software that was free that isn't 100% what you wanted is also silly. You can request upgrades or features added..but it shouldn't be expected.

You have 2 options if you must have it now: Go spend lots of money buying whatever professional OTC product exists that does it for you.. or do it yourself.

Otherwise you have one option: Wait patiently for someone to have the time to do it...

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

You could pay a programmer to write one... that's also an option.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Ok.. I stand corrected.. 3 options then :D

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Or completely drop the platform and go with one that does what you want.

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

That falls under the .. go spend lots of money buying an alternative that does what you want.. although what you WANT it to do..and the right way of doing it don't necessarily mean the same thing.. (Windows.)

Re: Arrington on TechCrunch - Wants A Touch Screen Web Tablet Built
 

Here's the thing about the Windows alternative: The crappiness of the platform notwithstanding, Windows only costs lots of money in the so-called "western world". I can go to a mall in Korat an "buy" Windows software for hardly more than the cost of the media. So snooty remarks about volunteer developers and free software only cut the mustard in a market where "warez" are hard to come by.

The remarks about the impatience and the "driving me mad" are wishful thinking at best. I really love Linux, and I love tablets, but if I don't get what I want, I'm voting with my wallet. Some people seem to erroneously presume that I don't want to pay for software for some reason but, FYI, I have spent more money on Linux software than I have ever put down for Windows proggies (OS/2 software might be higher than Linux; I never made the math on those two).