Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Go back to AOL for a while, you clearly haven't picked up as much aolspeak as you thought you have. :p

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

If you create an IRC channel, you can kick people, etc; ownership and channel origination are related. On forums, ownership and thread origination are totally unrelated.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

While we're on the subject, all of the cool people here need to join #maemo and stop being lame. :p

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

except, IRC is lame... so you can't start using IRC and stop being lame. The two are mutually exclusive.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Well, I know somebody who isn't in the cool cat's club.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

No, I suck at faking any kind of foreign accent.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Yeah, all you people using IRC :-)

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Okay. Received a lot of input on this subject.

Well here is the final word on this subject:

1. Lots of smart people that visit this forum.
2. The N8XX is an awesome little linux machine.
3. The N8XX is by no means a true "convergence" device that allows the user to carry just one device that converges at lot of functions inside one small package.
4. The N8XX, with reports that only 700K units being sold, will be discontinued soon since no company, even powerful Nokia, can continue spending money on what people in this forum have called "an R & D" project.
5. Desktop linux apps such a word processors are not practical on the N8XX.
6. Symbian, while not being a full OS like linux, is quite capable of handling "convergence" type tasks.
7. The Nokia N95 8G is the "perfect" convergence device following short of things the N8XX can do however excelling many, many, more areas the N8XX can never hope to do.

8. Last and finally, if 3G phone capability is added and built into the N8XX and an even slightly better camera (3-5mg) is added, the N8XX will take over not just this planet but could rule the entire universe. In the absence of these things the Nokia N95 8G kills the N8XX insofar as convergence is concerned.

So there you have it folks.

The last and final word on this matter.

Thanks for offering your valuable feedback and making this a really, really hot thread.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

You forgot about IRC; we mere mortals await your final sol^H^H^Hword as to whether it's lame!

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Yeah .. this isn't biased or opinionated in any way .. and totally a great "summation" of everything that's been presented in these 22 pages. :rolleyes:


I'll retract my sarcasm if you can show me a news article or an official announcement from Nokia saying that N810 just "isn't worth it".

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Err... you recoup the R&D money spent by profiting off it from your other devices. For example, you sell the tablet (you may get some money back, or you may lose money). You see what features are seen +. What are seen as -.

Then you put those + features in your new products (Say an N95 or N96, or whatever device you want to sell to the masses). While minimizing the - features. This saves them the trouble of messing around with their main series phone much and they get the benefit of real user experience and input by having the internet tablets out in the wild.

People who buy those products (like you) then see the N95 or whatever as a great product. Therefore you've helped Nokia recoup the costs they spent on R&D for the internet tablet (if they haven't already recouped the costs) when you pay for your phone.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

fatalsaint, I was simply stating what someone had posted earlier in this thread. I had never my self thought of the N8XX as an R&D project however after having heard a post that only 700K has been sold and that its "R&D" then I concluded that this can't go on for too much longer.

I cannot find anything from Nokia indicating that though. It just seems like common sense.

Laughing Man, sure R&D projects have parts of whats leaned show up elsewhere. I dont see any of the fruits from the N8XX show up anywhere else in a Nokia product. Have you ?

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

*shrugs* I wouldn't know. I don't keep track of what features make it in and which don't. I don't even look at the Nokia phones often (I use Sprint which usually gives away free Samsung phones).

Maybe the GPS I guess. You'd have to ask someone else who knows more about it.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

For your luddite-friendly needs, I suggest an incredibly small, lightweight solution for storing your contacts. I have been using it for years, so I can guarantee its reliability. Never be "screwed" again, even when all you have is a landline!

It is the qPIM!

The "qole Paper Information Manager"!

Print out 10 or so of your most frequently-used contacts on a tiny slip of paper. Include your calling-card information so you can make long-distance calls. Cut out this piece of paper and slide it in beside one of your credit / debit cards. Every 6 months to a year, when your contacts change enough to make it worth it, print out a new slip of paper.

There. Problem solved. Next!

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Haha, how true. I keep a paper copy of my emergency contacts just in case.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Heh.. my take...

1) Is an opinion. It could be construed as puffery and patronizing. I like puffery and patronizing. Please, continue.
2) Is an opinion, but generally that seems to be the gist. My opinion is that it's not awesome--but it is pretty neat and certainly better for me than most other devices. I'm still waiting for the AWESOME.
3) It's no more and no less a convergence device than a desktop or laptop PC with a built-in VGA (640x480) webcam, microphone, memory slots. You could MAKE it a convergence device--but it's not really designed as such. It's more of a computing device, near as I can tell, so that you can use it to connect up to the Internet and browse, listen and watch multimedia, sit down with a BT keyboard and do scripting, remote network and system administration (ssh, vpn, etc), browse the web, read your email and so on.
4) Where did you read that Nokia said that? Near as I can tell, it seems as if they're selling out all of their inventory pretty quickly. If anything, it seems as if they're not making enough of them. But that's just the impression I get from watching people (myself included, then I needed to replace my old N800) who're trying to pick up N800's and sometimes N810's.
5) This depends. Lightweight versions of these programs are definitely practical. If your statement were true, the Documents On The Go software for the Palm OS's wouldn't be such a selling point to business people. Near as I can tell, gnumeric and abiword are doing pretty well on the tablet. I also suspect that there NEEDS to be a bluetooth keyboard on N800's to make it worthwhile since screen real-estate is so precious for these types of applications. If anything, MORE desktop apps need to be ported and existing ports need to be tweaked a bit more for maemo to make the N8XX even more attractive to the business users.
6) But Symbian OS is even less capable of handling desktop apps, has NO support for Linux apps at all and it's effectively a lightweight 'specialized tasks' OS whereas the tablets with Linux are infinitely more expandable. Symbian OS is a good MOBILE PHONE operating system with support for some other things. Linux on tablets is a good general OPERATING SYSTEM to do pretty much anything. There's advantages to both.
7) Possibly--I've never had nor used one. Can I use it to run Python scripts and is OpenSSH available for the N95? Considering my heavy use of the N800 as both my fun ilttle podcast aggregation device that just magically GETS podcasts to listen to without the need to sync to a PC.. and it also doubles as my work-minded ssh terminal when I'm suddenly paged or called to duty and need remote access to the company's network to fix a server, switch or router problem.. I'm not sure that I can see the N95 filling that need but even if it does, for the cost it doesn't seem worthwhile for me.
8) This is all fine and well, but again increases the cost so as to make it not worth the cost for me. What it really needs is expandability instead of building in so much. I can at least afford to buy better and better radio for 3G or 4G or 5G as I go along. I can also afford to buy better webcams if it was an expansion offering. And so on.

And so there you have it, opinions differ and the feeling I got is that you're proposing opinion as a summary of fact. Maybe I'm wrong--just my impression.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Here we go again.

These are not opinions however they are my assessments of the device market as it pertains to the N8XX and the N95 8G. My assessment is based mostly on feedback received inside this thread from experts, including all of you reading this post, that have posted inside this thread.

My assessment is unbiased and FINAL. It cannot be changed. Please reread my 8 points posted earlier if you would like to be informed about the state of convergence as it pertains to the N8XX/N95.

I have spoken.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Now shhhhhhhh !!!

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

I just shhhhhhhhi 'ed you.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Sorry. Typo.

Its Shhhhhhhhhhhish.

I just Shhhhhhhhhhhhish'ed you.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Oh, I thought it was missing a 't'; though I was about to correct you regarding strong verbs...

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Just trying to quiet people down.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

So I can finally have my last word.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Ah, I see.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

No qwerty keyboard. Has to be an E61i or E71.

Though, it'd be better with an OpenSSH client (putty isn't good enough).

And, it'll get worse when Nokia drops the SIP client from its Symbian devices (rather stupid move, if you ask me ... but no one did).

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Which N contacts am I to choose? What if the ones I need to contact in that luddite-environment situation aren't among my 10 most used/ 10 most favorite/ etc. contacts? What if 10 isn't enough for me? the beauty of my convergence device is: I don't need to pick my N most favorite, or N most used -- I have access to all of my 100's of contacts all the time, whether I'm connected or not.



And, to get to your qPIM ... in other words, your convergence device model requires that you violate the convergence device concept (keeping it all in one place, accessing it all with one device) in order to avoid edge conditions. That would seem to immediately refute the validity of your convergence device, as it has just stopped being a convergence device.

And, conceptually, when looking past the media involved ... your qPIM process involves "syncing". In this case, syncing to print/paper. You are, once again, violating your own model (you implied syncing can/will/should become a thing of the past, and be un-necessary).

So, a convergence device that requires a companion device ... and involves syncing. Remind me again how your convergence device is _actually_ a convergence device?

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Shhhhhhhhhhish !

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

OH! I thought you were just shishing that other guy. Did you mean everyone?

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

What's going on here?

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Now, you're just being argumentative (as if you haven't been all along :D ). Why would the contact you need to call in a disconnected environment be one that you don't have on your qPIM? I tried to think of such a situation, but I couldn't come up with one... ie: some obscure business guy called you but didn't leave his number. Ok, so if he's so obscure, why'd he not leave his number? And how did you get the guy's message, if you're disconnected?

And why the heck do you have hundreds of contacts that you might need in a disconnected (ie landline-only) environment? That, in itself, is an extreme edge case. I have lots of e-mail addresses, but they are only useful when writing e-mails, and I can't send e-mails unless I'm online.

Well, technically, your convergence device fails in edge cases too, since, in the edge case you referred to, you have to resort to a land line to make the call. Your device is simply the "second device" holding your address book.

My "second device" is tiny (literally, paper-thin) and only requires very irregular updating (not syncing, see below), perhaps once or twice a year. It never runs out of batteries, can withstand water, and is with you wherever you have your wallet. I have a removable mini-wallet with only two or three cards and $20 in cash; my qPIM fits in there, too. In summary, it's a very elegant hack for the fact that no convergence device works in every situation, and that we don't have an environment that is ready for my ideal convergence device yet.

One last point: I am not saying that your device cannot store a local copy of your online data, only that your local copy is not a master copy. "Sync" involves a complex interaction between two data stores, determining which bits have changed in each data store, figuring out which is the "master" version of the changed data element, and then updating the non-master. This process assumes that there are multiple out-of-sync master versions of the database.

Downloading a read-only copy of the online master to your device is not sync, and is probably a good idea before going to "luddite zones"...

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Well, we're having an interesting discussion here, but there seems to be a lot of noise coming from somewhere.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Sounds like someone's sprung a leak.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Karel Jansens, I'll tell you whats going on here, as of yesterday, I belive this thrad is being hijacked.

I say this cause certain posters here are just speaking total muck.

Thats okay. I'll just hijack their threads. Hehe.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

kudos to qole.

If you dont have cell coverage, and thus can't connect to the internet to retrieve your contacts, you still can't use the phone! So it becomes a $600 address book...

Still, I have not been to a place with zero phone coverage, because if there is no cell, there is satellite!

BTW, a pocket notebook ($5) can hold more than a 1000 contacts. The beauty of paper...

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

There goes one just now. Muckin up this thread.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

Okay. Received a lot of input on this subject.

Well here is the final word on this subject. Hopefully those dudes that have been attempting to hijack this thread with nonsense about a silly device that only works in the clouds are gone to bed now :

1. Lots of smart people that visit this forum. Lots of idiots come here also and they reared their heads in this thread quite often.
2. The N8XX is an awesome little linux machine and thats all it ever will be unless somebody wise's up at Nokia.
3. The N8XX is by no means a true "convergence" device that allows the user to carry just one device that converges at lot of functions inside one small package.
4. The N8XX, with reports that only 700K units being sold, will be discontinued soon since no company, even powerful Nokia, can continue spending money on what people in this forum have called "an R & D" project.
5. Desktop linux apps such a word processors are not practical on the N8XX.
6. Symbian, while not being a full OS like linux, is quite capable of handling "convergence" type tasks.
7. The Nokia N95 8G is the "perfect" convergence device following short of things the N8XX can do however excelling many, many, more areas the N8XX can never hope to do.

8. Last and finally, if 3G phone capability is added and built into the N8XX and an even slightly better camera (3-5mg) is added, the N8XX will take over not just this planet but could rule the entire universe. In the absence of these things the Nokia N95 8G kills the N8XX insofar as convergence is concerned.

So there you have it folks.

The last and final word on this matter.

Thanks for offering your valuable feedback and making this a really, really hot thread.

And please, no flaming. I am only the messenger.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

I'm unconvinced. Perhaps if you continue to submit that same text every dozen or so posts I'll come around.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

If it's every dozen posts, then it would indeed be right as often as a stuck clock.

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

um, no. A stuck clock is right once in a while..

Re: Found perfect convergence device. Its not a N8XX.
 

One in twelve hours; that would be 'final' one in twelve posts. ;)