Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

Then stop wasting bandwidth while people try and find something useful in your posts.

Many of us do care and and one of my reasons for participation is to improve my talking points with those I work with who have for too long been blind followers of the likes of Nixon and GW(MD) Bush.

Less than a month remains in the present election cycle. The lies and allegations which are not quickly disputed are coming out of the woodwork. Both sides will come up with stories that should questioned.

Perhaps a week before the elections we will be told that Obama is part of a Muslim terrorist cell and they will have proof in a month. Or that McCain will nuke North Korea. Oh, sorry - not enough time to check the allegations.

If enough people like me could have persuaded others to vote for Gore we might not be in the mess we are now. But, as I've mentioned before, many of my coworkers thought this dumb concept of "Global Warming" was absolutely wrong and wouldn't happen here.

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

What state are in you in? the Libertarian party is on 45 ballots, Constitutional is on 37, Green is on 32 and Nader is on 46.

Im either going to vote Libertarian or Constitutional.
Im sick of the two parties and their big spending, and their pointless wars, and their intrusion into the market and my life. I just want to live my life and deal with my fellow man without government involvement.

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

I don't understand the motivation behind that post.

Maybe I need more education...

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

Well if you do not follow politics closely why do you get so upset about others statements? Look you don't have to follow politics closely in my opinion. Are you better off now than 8 years ago? I know my family certainly is not. Regardless of how I or anyone else feels. Sit down and think about what issues you care about and see who is addressing your issues. Go to each of their websites and research before you vote. Check places like http://www.dividedwefail.org

If its McCain? In my opinion, then you are either rich or confused.

But hey feel free to cast your vote how you like. All I know is no matter what. Bush and Cheney will be gone shortly, Oh Happy Day!

McCain honestly is not that scary to me, compared to Bush, Palin however scares the **** out of me.

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

"If the belief that main street needed a bailout due to a credit crunch then why not have the govt. take over WAMU and Wachovia and turn them into "the peoples banks" and extend proper credit through them until the "crisis" is over."

I don't understand all the ramifications of the bailout, and I doubt that anyone fully does. However, the people who agreed say that there is a decent chance Americans will get their money back, or most of it. There have been instances in which bailouts have netted a profit for the government.

The problem is that the government gave us almost no notice that this sort of sudden need for hundreds of billions of dollars was a potential problem, so there was no time for a full debate and analysis of how to solve the problem. Time was said to be of the essence, and I think that's true. So, one can propose lots of alternate solutions, but who is confident that there aren't hidden flaws in their ideas? I am not.

Unfortunately, I think that what has already happened is that the US is being dethroned from the center of the world's economy because we aren't as reliable as the world thought we were. This is going to impose a permanent new cost on the US.

A Mark Twain quip is, "put all your eggs in one basket and WATCH THAT BASKET!" Unfortunately, I think that the Bush administration forgot the part about watching the basket.

Have I said yet that I think that Obama will be forced to spend almost all of his first term digging out from disasters created by the current President? Bush will get a third term after all, no matter who wins.

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

Unfortunately in my readings on the RTC and Chrysler bailouts they did not calculate in the extra cost to the government (personnel, overhead, etc.) of running the programs.

Heck, even Ford would probably be making a profit if the government paid ALL the overhead costs of running Ford.

Admittedly the govt. people don't get paid much.

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

well the reason there wasn't time for a "full debate" is because all those regulations that would have been used to red flag these things were dismantled by congress. Furthermore there were many people who knew that problems were coming. Nobody in power gave a shat. I knew it in 2003 and I'm not even an econ expert.

ANybody here been reading Counterpunch? That stuff has been discussed there for years.

Fact is Congress was asleep at the wheel. The media as well as both dominant parties did the best they could to vilify and marginalize anyone who questioned what was going on.

There's no time to debate because this is a hold up. The American Taxpayer is being held up in a huge wealth transfer from the taxpayer to business in history. If they gave congress time or even gave them a heads up a year ago (which IMHO any competent congressperson ought to have seen this coming) then no way would this bailout even have happened.

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

I frequent one of Counterpunch's media links: Common Dreams.

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

Money has to be printed to "fund" the baillout. Our treasury is already overtaxed (pun unintended). I'll bet this serves to drive the dollar value lower.

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

One can talk about "knowing" that this problem was coming, as I can, because I saw the Economist cover from several years ago called "The Coming Real Estate Bust", showing a baloon floating perilously close to a pin. (And I read the accompanying article, too!)

So, those of you who knew this was coming, how much did you make on this crash? You probably bought a lot of gold stocks, right? And got completely out of real estate?

How did you profit from your knowledge?

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

Hey Texrat,

Nokia makes lots of money overseas... does that mean your stock is likely to go up if the dollar is worth less?

Sorry to everyone else (in the US), just looking for silver linings ;-)

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

No because overseas markets are also crashing. For the short term, people in many countries will buy less, making everyone poorer. What is happening now appears to be: The US economy is pulling down those of other countries. Their problems are making the US economy worse. Which makes the US economy pull down those of other countries. Continue forever. This is the dynamics of recession. Of course, "continue forever" is an overgeneralization, but you do get a kind of down-spiral.

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

That is true, the effects over here in good ol' europe are similar. And that is another fundamental problem in all this:
As I bank, I have two possible strategies in general:
a) be very risky ans make lots of money as long as everything is well
b) be conservative and have slightly lower profits
If bank a) crashes, the tax payer has to take care of it (as the effect on overall economy would be too catastrophic if a big bank crashes), so why should I be bank b)?
Same with states. Countries that have very weak rules regarding financial safety (as the US do) push their economy, countries that have a more conservative, safe approach don't. When the s**t hits the fan, the safe countries have to pay too, so why should they be conservative?
All in all, the system favors speculation. That won't change in the future. :(

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

"All in all, the system favors speculation. That won't change in the future."

It won't change, exactly, but it might become less popular. I'm not sure that speculation is an entirely bad thing.

In fact, speculation reminds me of wildfires here in Southern California. We have giant fires, and it often turns out that they were caused by kids playing with matches, or unattended campfires. Gotta do something about that!

But the fact is, forests that are filled with tinder are just waiting for something to start a fire, and the fault would not be fixed by preventing such accidents -- doing that just makes the next fire bigger. In fact, encouraging fires is not a bad idea, to burn up that tinder.

Similarly, speculation is caused by systemic weaknesses and people trying to take advantage of them. The solution is to stop the problem from getting that bad to begin with. Somehow...

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

I'm thinkin' because the US acted first to attempt to add liquidity to the credit markets, the value of the dollar may actually soon go up!

Re: Palin/Biden debate
 

I wish, but I highly doubt it.