Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

I tested 400x480 resolution on mplayer a few days ago. Works flawlessly at 7 fps, which is great. It's not fast enough for serious video playback, but it's brilliant for tutorial videos and slideshow videos (e.g. created in iphoto). I added that as a new resolution for media converter. Download here:
https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=26

Has there been any development on getting mplayer opera plugin that would be able to open flash videos on mplayer?

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

That's strange, MPlayer should easily work with 15 fps in this resolution. What did benchmark statistics say about the percentage of dropped frames when you tried higher fps? What is aspect ratio for this video? Make sure that MPlayer does not try to use software scaling to fix aspect ratio.

Anyway, software scaler for Nokie 770 will be also optimized and will work faster (N800 is at advantage here as it supports arbitrary scaling in hardware).

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

For a vga 30 fps video, 100 second test on n800:
xv + dspmp3 = 130 sec. 0.85 fps
xv + nosound = 188 sec. 15.9 fps
null + nosound = 142 sec. 21.1 fps



other observations about mplayer:
playing with xv sometimes freezes for several seconds and loops 2 adjacent frames while frozen
when playing a demanding video sometimes I must press home and select gmpayer or xterm to get mplayer to quit

these are with my own build:
mplayer/mencoder with v4l2 support can access the webcam
mplayer mirrors video from the webcam much better than the camera api demos

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Thanks for posting benchmarks. So right now we can suppose that MPlayer seems to play 30 fps video on N800 roughly the same as it plays 24 fps video on 770 (http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-dev...er/006646.html). That is if video does not need to be scaled (if scaling was needed, 770 performance would be much worse in video output). These results corelate with cpu clock frequency increase (24 fps vs. 30 fps and 250MHz vs. 330MHz).

Well, playback of nonconverted video even on N800 is still a challenge. Optimizations for ARMv6 SIMD instructions can help to make it faster. Also N800 has a specialized video accelerator (IVA), if it could be used, maybe the results would be a lot better.

By the way, it is possible to enable grayscale mode if cpu performance is not fast enough to play some movies, it works a bit faster (-lavdopts gray). But it is much less fun to watch for sure.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Serge,

Anything us mortals can do to help get mplayer ported to the N800? Seems like it would be easy to take up a collection to buy a unit for developers to use. Seems like the least the community can do.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

About SIMD benefits, I understood that new OMAP 2420 has SIMD support?
Some benchmarks done for XVID with and without SSE (SIMD of Intel Pentium family):

http://list.xvid.org/pipermail/xvid-...ry/004815.html

SIMD SSE brings big benefits (200-300%) for XVID decoding. Not familiar how well OMAP SIMD implementation and Intel SSE compares but probably it would make sense to take SIMD into use. This I suppose requires coding some routines in ARM assembler, though.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

How does the N800s hardware compare to that in the GP2X?

It's a cheap linux based gaming device that has no problem playing unconverted 720x480 Divx (on it's 320x240 screen).

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

I have found some information about GP2X here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gp2x
Apparently it is based on this SoC, so it has some dedicated video decoding support in hardware. Other than that, N800 has a faster CPU and more memory, so overall performance should be much better. Also N800 should have some dedicated hardware for video decoding as well check IVA block on this scheme, but probably it is not used yet in current version of software.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

ARMv5TE (Nokia 770) has instructions for performing fast single clock 16-bit multiplication (and idct for video decoding cointains a lot of such multiplications). Availability of such instructions speeds up video decoding as generic 32-bit multiplication takes more time.

ARMv6 (Nokia N800) has SIMD instructions to treat 32-bit registers as a pair of 16-bit values and perform arithmetic operations on this pair allowing to execute two 16-bit multiplies per clock.

Intel MMX uses 64-bit registers for SIMD, so it can perform operation on four 16-bit values at once. SSE2 has 128-bit registers and can perform operations on eight 16-bit values at once.

So SIMD on ARMv6 can't boost performance as much as on x86, but the improvement should be still quite noticeable :)

And you are right about assembly optimizations, they are needed and already used (but still can be improved) even for ARMv5TE.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

I'm just about to upgrade to the latest version of MPlayer on the 770.

What are the current favoured command line options for playing back videos downloaded from the net via Opera?

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Ok, so if 16bit value multiplication is enough for IDCT processing then one could get x2 performance from coding critical parts in assembler so not so huge improvements as with SSE.

But do you know if decoding is bottleneck and not display rendering or reading from SD card? OMAP 2420 has 32KB/32KB cache, is it enough for performance critical part of mplayer?

Should get one when traveling again so can start playing again with assembler, even though last time was 12 years ago with Intel 8051 :)

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

I don't know where to find MPlayer in my 770. I used Application Manager to install it from the catalog, but don't know where it went then. I have X Terminal, but am fairly new at this. I know this question has been asked before, but I haven't found the answer that works. Help?

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

It should appear in your extras menu (as it has a gui now), otherwise launch it from the xterm by typing "mplayer" (without quotes).

Si

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

That was my problem - it wasn't in the extras menu, and 'mplayer' in xterm reported 'file not found'. So using Application Manager, I uninstalled, downloaded the .deb file to my memory card, and reinstalled. It is OK now, so the first online install must have been corrupted. I had the power supply plugged in for the original attempt. Is it a bad idea to do an install with the power supply connected? I thought I read that somewhere. Thanks.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Yes, but 16-bit multiplications are not the only operations in IDCT, you also need to load and store data for example. So performance improvement from using these instructions will never reach x2 factor in reality.

Sure, first you can check benchmark results provided by sdrman a few posts above and also my link with the results from 770. Decoding takes most of the time. Also it is easy to skip some frames on video playback if cpu power is not enough, but you can't skip decoding (so if your cpu is not fast enough to decode video in realtime, that's the worst case).

In addition, it is possible to profile mplayer with valgrind/callgrind (on x86 cpu, just to get general information about what parts of code take the most), or with gprof on real device. Some sample gprof output for mplayer on 770 can be found here: http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/...ry/050363.html

In my tests IDCT usually takes 30% to 50% of video decoding time.

You can also check this article explaining video compression basics and performance considerations: http://www.dspdesignline.com/howto/b..._sel/187002884

I did some simulations with callgrind. Instructions cache should be enough for mpeg4, but there are many instruction cache misses for h264 (especially with cabac). And data cache is not enough for storing all the image buffers in it for sure, so many memory accesses in mplayer while decoding video are data cache misses.

You are welcome :)

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Serge,

Just wanted to shoot you a quick note thanking you for your time spent on Mplayer optimizations for the N800.

I picked one up on Jan 8th from CompUSA, and I must say it feels considerably better than my older 770. I was able to watch an Xvid of Heroes at 624x352 with a total bit rate of 1150 kbits. It would start dropping frames in heavy action scenes but it held up for the most part. Do you think it will be possible to get full speed playback on these typical files? Would be amazing to not have to re-encode movies, but just toss them right on my tablet =)

If i can provide better feedback by dumping logs, etc... I'd be willing to help with some brief instructions from you.

Edit: The video framerate 23.98 as well. If I could get some instructions on how to run a benchmark from the gui (or terminal) I'd be glad to help.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Well, it is too early to thank me for N800 optimizations, they have not been done yet (except for selecting proper compiler options) :)

I hope that this kind of video (24 fps) will be watchable even on Nokia 770 after a bit more optimizations, we are quite close to it already.

You can press 'Report' button in GUI after watching video. It will show some statistics about decoding and video output cpu usage and also the percentage of frames dropped at the end of report.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.8
In other words, now we have a super fast JIT accelerated scaler and any video resolution should be supported with almost no performance penalty (not just only 320x240, 400x240, 400x224 as before).

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

I notice a bunch of changes for the 770. Is this build suitable for running on the n800 as well, or should I continue to run the one you released recently for it?

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Well, in fact all these changes provide improvement for 770 only. Now Nokia 770 uses a highly optimized software scaler while N800 supports scaling in hardware and such tricks should be not needed there.

Most likely this mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.8 build can be run on N800 as well, but it was specifically configured and optimized for 770. So performance on N800 will be far from optimal.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Will MPlayer support streaming video? The Media Player on the N800 is so limited, I doubt Nokia will ever be able to make it as good as MPlayer. I would really like to stream windows media (.asx) to the N800.

MPlayer is great, I'm really looking forward to a version that takes advantage of the N800 capabilities.

Thanks

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

My ultimate goal is to stream from Orb (mycast.orb.com) to my N800. It does work today using real media, but at poor quality. If the N800 could play a 500kbs stream at 720x480, or even 640x480 at 25fps from Orb, I would happily pay for that feature. As a matter of fact, that is the only reason I spent $400 on the N800 to begin with. It actually works perfectly on my x51v, but the x51v screen is polarized in a way that gives me a headache when viewed in Landscape mode.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

2TheMostToys: Try installing the package linked from this page http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...&postcount=275

MPlayer should already support streaming and play video if you feed an url to it (either in the command line which is the preferred way for experimenting first, or in the top edit box in GUI). But windows media is not the best supported codec and you may have some performance problems using it. Even mpeg4 may be a bit too heavy at 640x480 resolution right now, but 25 fps can be ok. So the best way to check if it works is to try :)

PS. Thanks to Nokia for providing me with N800 discount code. But as I live in a country where Nokia online shops are not available, it may take some time (months?) before I actually get this device in my hands.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Serge: Whereabouts are you? I'm sure someone living in a country with the closest Nokia online shop would be happy to ship the device to you, since your work on mplayer's been so sterling!

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Serge,

I have that version installed. How do I set the web browser to launch MPlayer instead of the built in Media Player. Or I guess I could try to copy and paste the URL, but I don't know how to view the URL of a link. Orb creates dynamic (very long and cryptic) links, when I click on the link text, it automatically launches the built in Media Player.

BTW, the demo video plays, but only almost as well (a little choppy and slight tearing) as the built in Media Player.

I also tried a few wmv's that easily play on the x51v and MPlayer hangs "GMPlauncher is not responding". I am not stuck on wmv as a format, it would just save me from doing a LOT of transcoding.

Thank you, I hope your N800 arrives promptly.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Wmv doesn't play for me anymore. MPlayer 1.0rc1 on my PC plays this video fine. Earlier ports of rc1 for Maemo played it, although not perfectly. The current version simply freezes while it tries to load. This video uses wmv3 if that's important.

Edit: Latest mplayer on the 770 plays this fine, n800 freezes.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Thanks for your concern, I think that I can solve this problem myself even without the help from forum members (most likely even much faster than initially anticipated). It will only take some time, so I will be just a bit late to the N800 party :) Anyway, this time can be spent on improving Nokia 770 support in mplayer, it still has some potential for performance improvements.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Please forgive me for not tracking back through this forum...
I plan on purchasing the 770, with the primary reason of watching training videos on the move... all the videos I have are in WMV format, and I have no desire to convert them to AVI... how simple would it be for someone like me (I'm an IT guy, but know little of programming) to get this MPlayer up and running for it?

Additionally, is the input code a one-time thing (like installing an add-on), or is it something I'd need to input everytime I wish to start up a WMV video.

Any additional words of advice would also be appreciated (as you can tell, I'm pretty much ignorant in this field).

Thank you in advance!

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

mplayer is easy to setup. Just click on the installation file, wait for app installer to open, click install and you're done with it. It has wmv support built in.

Might help to know if you have wmv7,8,9 or 10 videos? I think mplayer might have 7 and 8 support, but not sure about 9. Definately not wmv10 support.

In any case, for example media converter allows you to drop all your video files for conversion in the evening, choose resolution, then click on convert and you'll have all videos converted by next morning (well you'll have converted versions as well, it doesn't consume the originals).

While you are thinking about buying N800, you might want to see if your training videos can be converted:
https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=26

While I think wmv files might work well on the mplayer, I still recommend converting them.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Thanks for the prompt response... so I guess conversion is the best way. My experience with conversion is with another piece of software called WinAVi and it takes a long time to convert my files. Maybe Media Covnverter will fair better, I'll give it a swing when I get out of work.

What's your take on the N800 vs. 770?? Apart from looking nicer, the N800 has the SD card slot... any other insight you may have as to which one I should go for? (the SD issue isn't the biggest problem)

Cheers!

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

N800 has better screen, faster processor, more memory, two SD slots, better pen (believe me, it matters), stereo speakers.

770 is slightly smaller.

I'd go for N800.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

I tried to install this from maemo's catalogue but application manager won't let me install it. how do i get this to work?

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Install directly from debian in here:
https://garage.maemo.org/frs/downloa...mo.9_armel.deb

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

This seems seriously unstable on my n800... The playback is not fluid, and it hangs and doesn't let me quit the application very easily... Ironically, the in-built app seems much more stable. Am I doing something wrong?

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Saccente - probably not, I've had the same behaviour with previous mplayers on N800 (build 7 if I recall - build 8 was better). I don't believe the author (Serge) has a N800 yet and some of the builds will not be fully optimised or tested on N800 until he can get hold of one - Serge lives in a country not supported by Nokia. :(

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

I have been playing with this on my N800 recently and have noticed some issues. With the default settings and in high motion scenes I see some skipping back and forth a couple frames at a time. As if someone in the scene was putting their foot forward then back again, then they keep walking.

I tried with -ao esd -ac ffmp3, and while a lot more frames get dropped, the skipping back and forth isnt there anymore which i think is more bearable.

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Right now the problems with video support on n800 are related to video output drivers.

Nokia 770 has the following options for video output (-vo option):
* sdl (no hardware YUV colorspace support and slow software scaler)
* nokia770 (hardware YUV support using framebuffer direct access and optimized scaler, right now it is default option)

Nokia N800 has the following options for video output (-vo option):
* sdl (no hardware YUV colorspace support and slow software scaler)
* xv (theoretically the best video output method, it is hardware accelerated and provided by xserver bundled in n800 firmware)

Now the bad news. Looks like video output in n800 using xv is rather buggy both in built-in player (see some reports here) and in mplayer. Video output using 'nokia770' driver does not work on n800 yet. First, screen update ioctl seems to ignore YUV color format flag and works with RGB (green colored garbage), pixel doubling is not supported anymore, also JIT scaler crashes on n800 (apparently some problems with cache coherency for dynamically generated code). The only more or less reliable video output method for n800 currently is sdl, but it is very slow.

BTW, there is no surprise that built-in player is a bit more stable, at least I'm sure that testing and quality assurance in n800 firmware was done for it, but not for mplayer ;)

So what can we do right now? In the long run we can expect some bugfixes for libxv in future n800 firmware updates. Another alternative is to experiment with framebuffer ioctls and update 'nokia770' video output code to work with n800 (xserver sources provide some insights about how it should work, I'm checking this code now). With some luck, we may expect a n800 ready build of mplayer soon (if a bug is only in xserver but not in kernel framebuffer driver, otherwise a fixed firmware will be still required).

Well, I already got my n800 on last Sunday, but did not have enough free time to do anything with it till this weekend :)

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Here is some N800 progress report.

Now I have some test version of framebuffer based video output for N800 working. It is not ready for public release yet as I still need to clean up the sources a bit and test it more (make sure that nothing got broken for Nokia 770 while hacking the code). This video output code is not very fast (looks like framebuffer driver got a bit more complicated and YUV screen updates are currently slower than RGB) but video playback does not jam anymore.

Anyway, direct framebuffer access on N800 may serve only as a temporary solution, once libxv gets fixed, it would be the preferred way for video output. In addition, we can't be sure that framebuffer API would not change in the next firmware update breaking mplayer. But we can keep xv video output as default and have an option for enabling this framebuffer based video output hack for those who would like to watch video here and now :)

What do you think, is it worth trying?

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Do you need testers?

Re: MPlayer which version is suitable
 

Having the xv option as default is probably best, assuming we get a fix from nokia
sometime soon. But it would be great if there was an easy to use gui switch to activate the temporary work around you came up with. I am so very excited to use my n800 as a multimedia device soon. Thanks again for your hard work Serge.

Edit: lol hard to tap this out without a keyboard