Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

In the case of my N800, I do it because it takes long enough to load some websites that I'd rather do something else while waiting.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

@ GA, that is a design flaw in the NIT, due to low resources available. Also, if you do that, the window pops up out of nothing once it is loaded. Hopefully solved in 'N900'/Maemo 5.

My TV has tons of buttons on it. I only use one though: the on/off button, and the remote control.

I don't even understand how the other buttons on the TV work. As far as I'm concerned they don't exist. Yet, they do, and when I accidentally touch them, I'm freaked out.

My TV also has S-Video. By default this is hidden. First of all, it collects less dust this way. Second, why show something normally not used?

This is an analogy why simplicity is sometimes better, and how a complex UI frightens a user.

BTW, if you read through the lines of this and my previous post you'll recognize the water and fire of the huge differences in usability paradigms between the 2 devices in question.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Design flaw that using the fastest ARM SoC at the time wasn't fast enough? Huh?

Sounds to me more like a good design that I'm even able to do other things while waiting. . . . :rolleyes:

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

My feelings BELONG in any thread where the Future of the Internet Tablet is deliberated, especially once worshipers of the iPhone chime in.

If the iPhone is seen as something to aspire to, the future of NiT will die.

You want to break the iPhone (as a device) apart from this discussion and steer the conversation toward features instead....go ahead....iPhone loses there as well.

You mention religion.....I laugh.....Steve Jobs has minds like yours so distorted by his dogma, it is you who is the victim of some religious blindness. Svengali....if you don't know the meaning, look it up.

I see things as they are.... I believe you see things as they compare to the iPhone (your Holy Grail).

As I said earlier in this thread, if Nokia is to learn anything from Apple, it would be to pervert it's behavior into that of thieves, liars, and hype artisans. Apple has a rich history in all of it (the thefts, the lies, the hype without substance)...and you seem to worship them. I hope Nokia does NOT allow itself to be influenced by it...or by those like you.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Yes, back then it was a logic decision, perhaps even a good one, but soon thats legacy.

On the new device it'd load instantly, and its assumed the user wants to continue with that task. Therefore, full screen.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Sounds like you want a different platform. I want to multitask, thanks.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

WOW-- that is messed up in my opinion. You must not be very into things technological if more buttons freak you out. You are afraid of buttons?

I bought a Canon digital camera many years ago, it had buttons all over it. It was the better user interface that all those cameras which followed with soft menus that I had to drill into to change a setting.

I HATE televisions and set top DVD players which have only one button on them (power on/off)...they suck ! I recently dumped a 32 inch Philips plasma BECAUSE of this short coming. The only reason a manufacturer removes switches is to SAVE COST not to enhance the user experience.

You sure have some strange ideas about electronic devices my friend.

WHAT???? Are you kidding?

Wrong ! It might frighten users with low IQ. So, you propose the future of technology cater the lowest common denominator...those who are frightened if given access to the internal technology a product contains? Your proposal is that hiding things from users is a good strategy? Simple is good, regardless of how it strips away functionality? I disagree.

You definitely should NOT be involved in guiding the Future of the Internet Tablet.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

I use my tablet every day.
When I need it, I expect it to help me with things I have trouble with (memory mainly)

I don't like tiny buttons and desktop interfaces, but know they exist "under the hood".

I want to talk with friends (email/im/videoblogs/twitter/jaiku/irc etc)
I want to pull it out and take a photo.
I want to easily sync with my master machine.
I want to not stress about command line this that or the other.

I like being able to lie in bed and surf or xchat or compile or download or configure and whatever else I can turn it to.

I want it to be fun and relaxing.
I want it to be easy.

Most of all, I want it to be maemo.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Usually yes... What does this tell you?

You can't expect all people to have a hive mind. The Person wants customization. The fact that you don't remember city and street names doesn't mean that i don't remember them.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

I want the NIT to be a part of my multitasking, real-life experience responding pre-emptive. I don't want to wait 5 seconds until my TV shows the next channel. If my TV would do that I'd start more multitasking as well. But the reason for doing so is a negative impulse; a design flaw. No thanks. I already gotta pee during the commercials.

Yes, and that shows the big gap between a device like the iPhone and the NIT. If you want to cater to a bunch of techies, then the past NITs serve that purpose. If you, like Nokia wants, prefer to cater more the masses, you have to adapt to the way the masses interact with a device. And thats different than a bunch of techies. Its more akin to the way I described in my previous posts. Will it change to that way? No way, not overnight. But eventually 1) it will 2) or the NIT remains some sorry niche because soon some corporation comes which will design the interfaces described minus the disadvantages of Apple's shitty vendor lock-ins. The techies will have their customization while the newbies will have pleasant default settings.

You must not understand Occam's razor or KISS principle. Why would I need the same buttons on my TV as well as my remote control? Do I look like someone who hangs around the TV the whole time simply to push some buttons? Do I look like I'm foolish enough to sell my remote control?

Yeah, and I have a Nikon, because I just want to shoot pictures without having to worry about all kind of crap. I can edit the picture later with Photoshop or GIMP.

The only reason a manufacturer adds switches is to make the thing attractive to men who require toys.

If you really wish to lower yourself to such metaphors: a lower denominator.

It is assumed the user feels this way; therefore the first user experience should not be frightening; the opposite; it should be pleasant. Those who knows, with their huge IQ (and ego), will be able to find the secret levers.

Perhaps you don't like GNOME either then. Or Hildon. Maybe you prefer KDE, or you programmed your own WM. And, the KDE people are starting more towards the GNOME path these days.

You clearly have no experience in UI designing. Stay away from it, or expect a leap of a learning curve.

Another example. I'm from a small country. When I lived in the USA the first big store I went to was Fry's in San Jose. It was so huge! For American standards relatively small, but for me it was huge. I went to search for a WiFi card (USB preferably). Well, guess what? Tons of them, tons. 30 meters long, 4 heights: WiFi cards. I looked at lots of boxes, and had a written note with me for the chipsets I was searching for. Lots of choices! Sometimes the same version popped up again behind a different location. Yet none they were selling was Linux compatible...

Now, some observations:

* Huge store, with so many choices, it was overwhelming.
* With regards to the WiFi cards: many choices yet not the one I was looking for.
* In the meanwhile my friend already picked her CPU, motherboard, RAM, and PSU.
* Filling in the WiFi chipset on eBay yielded a few, cheap sales.
* A specialized (Linux-friendly) electronics store might have been a better solution.
* Some hardware manufacturers put a Tux logo on their Linux compatible logo. Do you think this is quicker noticed than the name Linux? Why do you think companies have logos? Why do you think IBM is called IBM and not International Business Machines?
* Is it that more choice was better? On the Fry's layer it wasn't. On the store layer it was because I found a sale on eBay.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

LMAO.... you don't like buttons and now you admit you don't like large stores where there are many items to chose from.

This just keeps getting better with every rebuttal.

BTW- I am an engineer, and I have designed many a user interface. I was in the biomedical electronics instrumentation business. I understand user interfaces and the value of numerous buttons.

I do not "freak out" for fear of pressing the wrong button as you admitted to being earlier.

Buttons are good.

The Philips plasma TV I dumped??? It stopped responding to the remote control one day (some defect occured), and all that could be done with that TV after that was turning it on and off at the set. Nice design....NOT! If it had a few buttons the set would still have some value. No buttons meant no changing channels, no volume up/down, no selecting video source. The thing ended up in a landfill prematurely primarily because Philips ( from the Netherlands ??? ) was too lame to understand the things which many of us understand. I guess in Holland the Dutch just dislike (or fear) buttons.
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Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

BTW- I didn't edit pictures on my Canon digital camera. The buttons I liked because they allowed me to quickly change setting on how the picture would be taken (before I took it) and it allowed those setting changes without navigating through soft menus and drilling in and out of menus. THAT camera had good UI (and lots of buttons).

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Just a quick question, you did try changing the batteries and hitting the remote against the side of the chair didn't you?

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

So you're saying that non-techie people are just a flock of sheep?

You're getting quite good of missing the point though. ;)
I'm not against simple interfaces, i'm against not having a choice.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

I tried several things. Banging the remote against the side of a chair wasn't one of them though :-)

The remote was emitting infra-red light when you pressed a button (there are various ways to test for this).

Even after I downloaded the 170 page pdf service manual complete with schematics fixing the set was a nightmare. Fixing that Philips TV required some specialized diagnostic tools (and software Philips only let's their Auth. Serv. Centers access to). That 32 " Plasma was VERY computer-like inside, and difficult to work on the way it was constructed. I spent quite a few hours working on it before selling it to a guy on Craigslist ( who probably sent it to a landfill shortly thereafter ).

All the manufacturer had to do was have a few "buttons" on the thing and it would have continued to be worth something.

It wasn't a real big deal because it was given to me not working (no picture) and I got the picture part fixed, but then the remote problem was discovered. The set was given to me, I would have never purchased a product like this that had no buttons on it. The reason should be clearer now that I've explained the details.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

That is how I'm feeling the whole time in this thread. In GNOME the default is simple and you have many choices to extend it. The default choices are the user's first experience. They should be pleasant. I'm pro ability of extending. But I don't need a serial and paralel port on my PC, I don't need an embedded Cray, and I don't need 100 incompatible WiFi cards.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

We get it.... "choice" isn't in your vocabulary. You also don't think your computer should have serial or parallel ports (you said so), and your TV should not have more than one way for video to get in (you don't want Svideo or other connectors on it). You hate having choices to make, and you fear pressing the wrong button so in your mind the Future of the Internet Tablet should take away choice, take away as many buttons as possible, take away ports (your idea of a future NiT would have no USB port, right?).

If your PC should not have serial and parallel ports in your mind than I have to presume a Future Internet Tablet would not need any I/O ports in hardware either. Oh man, you are exposing some messed up thoughts.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Exactly. The point is that less is (sometimes) more. If you never deal with people who want something to just work you don't have this compassion.

If you're from a society where everybody wants more more more and becomes fatter and fatter. Yes, then I understand you are not able to sympathise, let alone empathise.

You're no UI designer. You probably never wrote software for a non-tech, normal person. And I'm pretty sure you've never worked in a helpdesk environment either. Just like your buddy GA. :D

Sorry, you do not understand user interfaces.

What does this button do? *Poof*.

I had a toaster oven with an on/off button. I moved it aside. It touched the wall. It went on. I didn't notice. No light indicator for on/off. Later, there was a fire. Bad design. A toaster oven shouldn't have an on/off button on its side, and it should give user feedback about whether it is on or off. OTOH, it was very cheap.

I bet when someone comes at your door theres an entire interface to control the US nuke supply instead of one simple doorbell.

Buy a new remote control.

Or buy it in EU with a standard 3 years warranty.

No wait, you did neither, you bought a second hand device with no knowledge of its usage history, and you complain it doesn't work. Sherlock!

We don't have many outlets in the Netherlands.

But you're right. In Holland everybody rides a bicycle equipped with a little bell. Everyone eats cheese. A garden without a windmill is a golf terrain.

Nobody has a Nokia. Too many buttons. They're actually banned here. The Dutch have a too low IQ to handle 'em. When George Bush visited the country his Nokia was confiscated. Everybody has a Philips Plasma, and Philips flags, towels, etcetera. Everybody has an iPhone. And we are all the lowest common denominator in the world, with the lowest IQ.

About the only thing true is that 'everybody has an iPod'. I got a different device, and I'm satisfied with it (+ Rockbox 3.0), so I'm not switching.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Linus Torvalds saying, "Gnome seems to be developed by interface nazis..."

LOL that was too much.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Yes, because you totally know my background. :rolleyes:

I was a computer lab assistant in high school for 3 years (which basically involves helping people do simple things with computers for 40 minutes a day), and worked the infodesk at a bookstore for another (overlapping) 4, which is about as generic a help desk as they come.

Please, keep your assumptions and your cultural ******** out of discussions in which they aren't relevant.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

I don't think you get it.

It is, but choice isn't the holy grail.

Indeed. Know why? Cause I use USB <-> RS232, and because my printer uses USB / ethernet as well. Just because some ancient Alpha has to communicate over RS232 doesn't mean my PC needs it. Converters are useful.

Wrong. My Philips has a small panel on the right which includes S-Video. But I can hide it by default, only open it when I have to. Its also on the side. Don't have to get behind the TV to connect S-Video cable.

Sometimes.

???

Yours would be a Cray with 4 RS232, 2 RS432, 8 USB ports, 2 ethernet, 1 DVI-D, 1 VGA. Because choice is good... :rolleyes: (****, I forgot HDMI.)

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Simple thoughts from a simple mind. The remote controller (transmitter) wasn't at fault. Simply buying a replacement would have just wasted money and not solved the problem.

Not an option.

It was given to me, Sherlock.

You forgot the part about wearing wooden shoes so walking in the mud isn't so uncomfortable. I have been across Holland....very muddy.

That would appear to be true by your admission.
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Actually I love The Netherlands, and the people. I'd like to visit there again.
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Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

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I got a small bit of news for ya.... USB is a serial port.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Are you adding anything to the discussion or are you only content bashing iPhone and what you believe to be iPhone lovers ?

Everyone on this form is a IT lover and that why they are here.
But again most of them here are also open to seeing what is good elsewhere and admit it and debate it and discuss it, instead of trolling on inccesantly without adding a penny's worth to the actual discussion.

Also as a side note : I think you must be incredibly daft - to not understand the context of what is said and instead infer your own biased and assumed thoughts into people mind. Next time read the threads 2 times and if you still do not understand read it again. Believe me reading is a very good thing.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Pfff. Pissing contest? I meant RS232. The term serial port is usually used in reference to RS232 just like people use the term IDE in reference to PATA.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

*ding* may i suggest 5 min timeout?

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

My views add to the discussion if those views address the Future of the Internet Tablet. Someone here says leave off the USB port. They say leave off buttons. They say look to Apple's products for guidance to the Future of NiT. I post counter points to those views. Sorry you fail to understand that much of what I contributed here IS related to the Future of the IT as I would like it to take shape.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

No it is not.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Hmm. Strange. Here it says: While such interfaces as Ethernet, FireWire, and USB all send data as a serial stream, the term "serial port" usually identifies hardware more or less compliant to the RS-232 standard, intended to interface with a modem or with a similar communication device.

And for clarification. In reference to no device did I say leave off the USB port. You misunderstand what someone who has a different view than you writes. You don't seem to be able to comprehend what someone might mean with specific terms, or you just assume it means whatever you believe is the Right Interpretation.

PS: For the record, this is the only thing I said about FireWire: nothing.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Thats sounds very good, but when I was comparing features of a phone+PDA conbo (iPhone, Dell Axim, Xo etc) it was you who were religiosly pointing out your 'iPhone dogma'.

And also interjecting such statements as

This has nothing to do with discussing features or functions of any device but all to do with your bigotry towards 1 particular device. Which is what I mean by not contributing to the discussion.

Beleive me when I say this - we have all become tired of iPhone comparisons ourselves and iPhone zelotry is as much hated as anti-iPhone zealotry. We all appreciate a healthy discussion cmparing feature to feature, function to function, form to form with any device, be it the iPhone too.
We are not interested in Steve Jobs or Svengali (and no I dont know the meaning and I didn't look it up anywhere as that is not pertinent to the discussion here), or if Apple is involved in theft, or in some form of artistry which is hyped or is a pervert or is Steve Jobs a pervert or should I worship them or not and all that crap. This is not adding anything to the discussion anyways.

So lets call it a day - and get back to discussing the future of IT.
And I do apreciate where you are actually discussing features or function (like the USB/Serial thread).

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Haha, good point referree :)

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Yes... IN GNOME. That's why i use it. :) Guess why I don't use an iPhone. :D

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

That was long time ago, things have been changing since then. :)

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

we have choice.

both camps can be catered for without any kind of issue whatsoever.
this is linux - choose your favorite.

However, from Nokias' POV doesn't it make sense to give simple usable interface *by default*?

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

Yup, Fremantle FTW :)

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

The Future of the Internet Tablet. I hope Nokia refrains from marketing future NiTs in ways similar to those adopted by A**le. I also feel deeply that there are pitfalls in associating this lovely hardware with "carriers" who in bundling, subsidizing and distributing it in the USA would change it in ways which would ruin it.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

There is nothing at all wrong with a mass market clean product which is both functional and intuitive.

I really see your reservations about it to be petty and not helpful.
I see no reason at all that says you will not be able to make your Internet Tablet do exactly what you want it to - hell, I came to this platform for exactly this reason.

I have a piece of software which does things in a completely new way, if the platform were locked down I couldn't attempt that and I certainly wouldn't be helped along the way as I have so far by the amazing people in this community.

I hate vendor lock in for phones, but that has not even been discussed - all we know is it will have a cellular radio.

Re: Future of Internet Tablets
 

I don't want to be petty.

This is related to of which I speak:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

T-Mobile pulled this off their site. They don't want people to know. This could happen with NiTs too.