Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Same here. Not only would I pay for the software, I was considering sponsoring development of a PIM until Nokia personnel asked for input.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Of course that is correct, I wasn't stating otherwise. I went for the N800 for its obvious hardware superiority

First off, thank you for your amazing work on KDE.

Actually I only use the Calendar function of KAPi and this is replicated very nicely on the N800 by GPE Calendar topped off with TahitiBob’s syc work with Google Calendar.

What I want are most of the other apps which I listed but these are custom made for the handheld screen and not big screen apps scaled down to fit.

Comparable apps were not developed for the N770 nor for the N800, neither has the so called consumer friendly N810 stimulated any such interest either.

Yet all the talk is about the N900. Can a platform really survive without a healthy vibrant software developing community?

It beggars belief that a fully fledged set of PIM apps was never part of the device in the first instance. When I first bought my N800 I really expected this to be just around the corner and I held that faith until about 6 months ago. From what you say, it is not your fault either.

I would still pay for these apps even now because there is a lot of life left in the N800 and this would tide me over until the 2nd generation MIDs surface.

Initially before purchase, I did approach tkc to gauge their interest in the Internet Tablet platform but they could see little future in it. Frankly, at this moment I can't say that they were wrong.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

many of the entries on the list looks like tcl/tk based apps. i wonder how easy it would be to port them after a working tcl/tk port was done (similar to python)...

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

The tkc apps are closed source. That in itself may be an obstacle, do you think?

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

ah, i just assumed that the opening tk was a reference to tcl/tk.

and closed source? ugh...

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Yes, sorry I didn't understand your tcl/tk reference.

theKompany.com (tkc) made available a plethora of Zaurus apps,
http://www.thekompany.com/embedded/

They charged for the apps - not much on average $15 - but presumably felt the need to protect their investment.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

No; they are all ported to ARM. So it shouldn't be too hard to run them on N8x0. They also have some demos available for some of the applications.

And I'm pretty sure a lot of people would pay $15 for a PIM application which Just Works.

But Zaurus ran Qtopia by default. All these applications are old Qtopia applications (akin to Qt 2.0 times) so probably out of date.

TheKompany.com doesn't port 'em to NIT because they see no commercial benefit for other reasons...

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

That's like saying a Windows application should run on Linux, since Linux runs on x86 CPUs.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Exactly.

I understand that they started to make apps available for the N770. The first and only effort was tkcPanels http://www.thekompany.com/embedded/tkcpanels/index.php3

From what I could see, there were not alone in this. Several developers supported the N770 and then stopped when the N800 arrived.
e.g. http://www.dejadesktop.com/

Possibly to do with incompatibilities in the two platforms?

It must be hard for a small software company to commit resources to a project and then see the goal posts moved shortly afterwards. But this is conjecture on my part, I am sure others on this forum will be more knowledgeable on the issues of making N770 apps work on the N800.

Whatever, it is clear that the initial surge of enthusiasm for the NIT platform quickly died.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Nokia discontinues N810 Wimax...as predicted. The Internet Tablet is reaching its end. RIP.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Ah, trolling. Who doesn't love it?

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

At least he's consistent.

Oh wait-- that's the hobgoblin of little minds when it's foolish.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Am I too late to witness/experience the torching!? :-)

I don't know if the Nokia Internet Tablet hardware will falter (or will be abandoned out of the blue like the Wimax edition and the (dis)continued development of Maemo for the N8x0) in 2009, but I'd like to hear honest opinions on why Android is popping up (being adopted) everywhere and Maemo..? Well, the planned next Maemo is too good for the current hardware so that particular ecosystem will have to start from zero again, sometime in late 2009.

I mean, Nokia's been at it in their own inimitable way for several years now and there may now be more (NDA-encumbered) OS developers than previously but this community appears to be strangely ankle-chained to Nokia's corporate decrees and hardware (development and pricing) policy.

How many times did you feel genuine excitement about a new Maemo app (or even an update to older app) during the whole of 2008? About Diablo and its bug-fix SSUs?

If you felt any such excitement about Maemo, did you miss the part where different hardware manufacturers actually compete for your patronage?

So Android isn't actually even shipping everywhere yet, but there's something to be said about its significant advantage in developer, manufacturer, media and user/public mindshare compared to Nokia's Maemo.

PS. My N800 has been generally useful for simple stuff despite being occasionally troublesome with maintenance, but this thread was about the future challenges. I am quite aware that nothing can kill the existing tablets any more than they can kill the Zauruses/Zaurii.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

I don't think Wimax edition abandonment is out of the blue. I was sounding alarms months ago. Hopefully Maemo 5 builds upon previous versions, and does not start again from zero (or even 10%).

There are a lot of reasons for the Android/Maemo dichotomy. Google pumped a lot of resources into Android while Nokia is less accepting of risk.

And yes I do miss that Maemo is not licensed to different HW manufacturers.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Peet,
From my personal perspective, the other devices do not compete.
Each device has strengths and weaknesses.

As for maemo being licensed to other manufacturers, I have seen Mer running on x86 as well as the tablet itself.
The core improvements to the Fremantle OS are available and open and accessible for us to build a community distro with.

Who knows, maybe we should try to port it to the G1 or iphone ;)

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

What I've grown to require in a mobile device at this point can only be fulfilled by the n810. Now that isn't to say that I couldn't pare back my requirements and go with a more limited device, but thankfully I don't have to.

The next logical step for me isn't hardware accelerated graphics or even an hd camera, but cellular connectivity. As ubiquitous as wifi is, I can't use it on the road (while my wife is driving, of course). Setting up a connection for each hotspot to re-route my traffic through an encrypted tunnel gets old. I want wifi at home, mobile broadband on the road.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

I predict Nokia will no longer be offering the Internet Tablet line by at latest the year 2743.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

As far as I know there isn't anything that competes with the NIT that makes Nokia want to drop the price. If someone wants a portable laptop they'll get a netbook. If they want a music/video player with nice apps they'll get the ipod touch. If someone wants an open source device to play with and has features no other device has then they'll get the NIT.

Sony's Mylo 2 is the nearest competitor to the NIT. Compared to the N810 it runs for $200, has a better camera and 1GB memory built in. Too bad it isn't open source, is a little bulkier, uses Memory Stick instead of MiniSD, and has no GPS or bluetooth. For some people the $150 difference isn't worth the open source GPS and bluetooth, for others it is.

As for UMPCs: Those things are crazy expensive compared to a tablet. They are pretty nice though. If I had the money and if they were smaller I'd buy one instead of a tablet.

The devices pretty much match the buyer's personality. So go buy whatever you want and stop bickering.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

There are many components that are open, but Maemo as an integral whole is not open and is not licensed (AFAIK). I would be happy if at least Hildon was open, but it is not (AFAIK). As to Mer, I am not familiar with the licensing status and would appreciate a clarification if there is one. Running it does not mean it is a legitimately licensed. Thanks.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

It would behoove you to get your facts straight before making judgements about the platform. Hildon, both the desktop environment (which includes the Application Manager, Control Panel and Hildon Desktop) and the GTK extension, is (and always has been) completely open source.

Maemo is about 80% open source with Fremantle, with most of the closed-source parts coming from 3rd-parties (Flash) or Nokia differentiation areas (seamless connectivity, battery life, and some UI features).

Please don't denigrate the good people working on the Mer project by so lightly assuming that they don't comply with licensing terms. :)

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

GA, he did add the disclaimer "AFAIK". That indicates lack of malice.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Hilldon is open, and Mer will provide an open image as well as one with value-added closed components. (http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint) Most of these are, I think, platform-dependent, so they would be replaced in a port anyhow.

The iPhone, or rather the iPod Touch, would actually be quite a logical target -- it's quite popular, has a Linux port underway, and is generally suited from processor and external perspectives, with a touchscreen and enough buttons to make a powerlaunch UI work out. The missing D-pad is the only real handicap.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

The general tone of troll threads tends to lead me to believe the worst.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

SD69 is no troll. He shouldn't be lumped in with the OP.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

It would still be interesting to see someone thoroughly evaluating the 1) developer, 2) manufacturer, 3) media and 4) user/public mindshare and perception differences - and respective strategies - between Maemo and Android.

All the four elements above are important to successful platform-building.

I'm not expecting the existing Nokia hardware or the community around it to vanish in thin air, but for a (relatively) long-time pioneer Nokia/Maemo platform does *appear* to be losing ground/momentum/mindshare here and it would probably help everyone involved to understand why that is.

In 2009 there will be a major watershed between the current and the new "N900" hardware and if Nokia (and it does appear to be just Nokia behind the Maemo project at the moment) doesn't do absolutely everything to get heavily discounted or even free hardware in the hands of developers then I could easily foresee the Maemo platform and Nokia's tablets treading water in comparison to competive software and hardware platforms.

Torch the messenger if you will, but I'm really just trying to be helpful by raising these issues (or alternative unpopular opinions?).


As the "Community Council chair" you'd do well to avoid shooting from the hip and instead concentrating on positive community-building. IMHO.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

While there are often specific niches within larger markets, devices providing similar functionality do compete on many levels; for 1) developer, 2) manufacturer, 3) media and 4) user/public mindshare and money/effort spending power.

The strengths and weaknesses analysis should go much deeper than simply looking at (potential) hardware capabilities.

(Although your concentration on unlocking the capabilities of N8x0 hardware are very much appreciated!)


All these issues should be looked at in comparison with Android or whatever is de facto competing with Nokia/Maemo for available resources.

If Nokia's Maemo infrastructure can't keep up with Android then maybe efforts would be better/wiser spent on jumping on the Android train and using available resources on Maemo'izing and Hildonizing that for optimal experience on Nokia's hardware?

I'm not saying it should happen but just urging people to consider possible ways of achieving maximum momentum (and synergy; a dreaded term but..). And application availability. And long-term usefulness of EOL'd hardware...

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

I didn't denigrate anyone. In fact, I ASKED for clarification of the licensing status of Mer.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Pretty simple really:

* Upstream is Ubuntu/ARM (so we inherit any licensing status from that)
* The components we use from Maemo are all open source/distributable and published as such.
* When we will publish images containing closed source components for HW support and other tablet value-added things, there are discussions to do this through maemo.org (see http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community...e_distribution and attached mailing list discussion ) - until an agreement is in place we're not publishing images with the closed HW bits and just generally relying on having access to /mnt/initfs

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Nokia has run a discount program for developers following the release of each previous major hardware revision, and there's been no indication that they won't be running a Developer Device Program again this time. Indeed, folks from Nokia have stated that they'd like to work with individual developers to try to get prototype devices in their hands well in advance of the commercial release of the next device. Since access to such prototype devices is usually reserved for corporate partners, it's not clear how, or even if, something can be arranged for individuals, but the fact that Nokia's even investigating the possibility speaks volumes.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

The real reason behind threads like these is that so many people can't resist telling "the losers" that they've "seen the light" and are "moving on". Yada yada.

Just move on, OP. No one will miss you, here.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

It's funny though that both Penny Arcade guys use Macs and iPhones now, isn't it? Of course, Tycho also uses a Zune, so...

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

cant say, as i dont read the comic in general. i just have that strip in the back of my mind when it comes to people that need to shout from the top of some mountain that they use products from some brand vs anything else.

or to say it another way, there are a lot of people out there that attempt to internalize the ads and stuff related to some product or brand. if some movie star is seen using product A, they themselves will choose said product, no matter what.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

As I sit here finishing my Yuban Organic Free Trade coffee and type upon my IBM Thinkpad T43 beside an HP C6180 multifunction printer under the soft glow of a table lamp from Lowe's I can't imagine what tso is blathering about. :D

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

if you actually read any of the articles or press releases regarding the end of life of n810w then you would know it was because there are only two metro areas that have wimax rolled out and apparently there are/were issue on the wimax end. nothing at all to do with the tablet


read the forums... android is being ported for the tablet... if you don't like maemo and its app's go android there are many more years left for this hardware

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

A Beaglebord costs $150. A Pandora costs, I don't know, $300? More OMAP3-based devices are on the rise see Cortex entry here. SDK pre-release is free, and actively being developed.

Free N8x0 devices were handed out to KDE developers on aKedemy summit.

Hardware specs of new device are roughly known. Nokia is heavily developing on Fremantle & Maemo 5.

What more do you request?

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

At this moment that is the best hope that I can see. Not just for the Nokia Tablet but for the MID's too.

There are two things in hand to make this a reality. One is the amazing work being done to port Android to the N8*0 and the other will be the availability of 'paid-for' Android apps.

Once developers see that their efforts can be rewarded I am confident that great software will be forthcoming.

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

And Google behind it, actually marketing the damn thing. ;)

Re: My prediction: Nokia Internet Tablet will falter in 2009 and beyond
 

Eh, nothing more. Clearly I was mistaken wondering about the whole wider mindshare thing and the future is certain to be bright. It's not really my business to be raising any questions anyway. Glad to hear everything's going according to the plan.