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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Competitors (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   Nokia N97 Announced (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=25311)

mobiledivide 2008-12-03 22:38
Re: Nokia N97 Announced
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 246654)
You've got to be kidding me. It's that easy to do an end run around the (supposed) costs and certifications required for mobile voice devices? It seems to me that, if this were true, the carriers would all be taking advantage of this and selling handsets that used the ostensibly data-only standards to do voice. Wouldn't that be cheaper for them?

I don't get this.
All phones (to my knowledge) that have 3G also support EDGE and GPRS connections which is a separate radio on GSM. In the US just by observing my 3G indication waiver between EDGE and 3.5G in the middle of NYC I would hate to have just a 3G radio without a fall back to EDGE.

GeneralAntilles 2008-12-03 22:54
Re: Nokia N97 Announced
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 246652)
I'm sorry, that wasn't clear from your post:
It was quite clear if you had payed attention to the post I was responding to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gammer (Post 246514)
If N900 is simply larger than N97 then it's also more expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 246652)
A $550 device will not be "in line price-wise with previous generations" of maemo devices.
The N810 was $479 at launch, that's not a huge difference. There's no point quibbling over degrees, though. . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 246652)
(I still would like you to take a moment and provide citations for your assertions)
After my Maemo-filled afternoon and evening . . . not bloody likely (it's been non-stop for the past 4 hours). Find it yourself or wait for somebody else to. <_<

SD69 2008-12-03 23:30
Re: Nokia N97 Announced
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 246654)
You've got to be kidding me. It's that easy to do an end run around the (supposed) costs and certifications required for mobile voice devices? It seems to me that, if this were true, the carriers would all be taking advantage of this and selling handsets that used the ostensibly data-only standards to do voice. Wouldn't that be cheaper for them?

I don't get this.
The data and voice are independent in HDPA. GSM is considered 2G and HSDPA is 3G backward compatible to 2G.

It's not as easy as just popping in a new radio chip. There are an awful lot of codecs, handoff algorithms, etc., in 3G that have to be present and supported by suitable drivers. Evidently, its basically a severe retrofit to get this to work with a linux kernel and not easy to do. I think Nokia (and others) are working hard on it thought.

As for the carriers, VoIP over the 3G data channel is much less efficient than separate voice channel with its dedicated codecs, etc. Aside from device costs, it wouldn't be cheaper for them because of the network management issues.

deadmalc 2008-12-04 00:00
Re: Nokia N97 Announced
 
I seriously hope the n900 supports voice and data, otherwise for my use it's a complete waste of money, and I'm getting excited about buying it!
At the moment I have to carry around a phone and my tablet, if I still have to carry around both, what is the point?

It's not like VOIP on 3G is going to be cheaper than phone calls, as that would mean it would use less bandwidth - in which case the phone companies would have already done this surely?

If it didn't support it when it came out and they added this a couple of months later I'd still buy it as soon as it comes out.

Tell me it ain't true!

gammer 2008-12-04 00:06
Re: Nokia N97 Announced
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 246533)
An interesting conclusion to jump to, though not one backed up by a whole lot of evidence. Remember, RX-51 doesn't have the same carrier expenses as a real cellphone, and, besides, several Nokia representatives have repeatedly stated their intention to keep the next tablet inline price-wise with previous generations.
With "just larger" I mean exactly this. It is not very likely either but I would like to have that option - a super convergence device with 4.x inch capacitive touch screen and maemo os. And this would be more expensive for trivial reasons...

allnameswereout 2008-12-04 00:30
Re: Nokia N97 Announced
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 246671)
The data and voice are independent in HDPA.
Do you mean HS*PA? As in, HSDPA and HSUPA?

Benson 2008-12-04 00:50
Re: Nokia N97 Announced
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 246654)
You've got to be kidding me. It's that easy to do an end run around the (supposed) costs and certifications required for mobile voice devices? It seems to me that, if this were true, the carriers would all be taking advantage of this and selling handsets that used the ostensibly data-only standards to do voice. Wouldn't that be cheaper for them?
Big Business (telcos) meets Big Bureaucracy (FCC) and you expect anyone involved to pick the cheaper route?!


I don't really know this stuff, but I am rather skeptical of the notion that the silicon will be incapable of voice. I'm not sure what effect that will have on certification, but inability (even from firmware) to make GSM calls can't hurt and may help.

But next-generation systems (HSPA+) will be all-IP capable, so the telcos are actually headed that direction, if not necessarily for this reason.

SD69 2008-12-04 01:01
Re: Nokia N97 Announced
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingsnot (Post 246516)
You can see a brief example of the homescreen widgets in the video on this page

http://events.nokia.com/nokiaworld/home.htm

At around 28 seconds :) Yes you're right, to say that the TS was taken from the NITs would be naive and wrong, but to say that Nokia have incorporated parts of the scheme and programme from the NIT design into the N97 and most likey future TS devices would be more of a correct summary, imho.
That was quick! I can't really determine anything. Hard to say they are widgets in any way uniquely drawn from NIT and not just generic J2ME widgets. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widget_engine
What I found unique about the homescreen widgets in the NIT was that they were movable about the screen and easily selected on or off by the user, and I can't tell that from the N97 video.

There really isn't enough there for me to say how much "scheme and programme" there is. And I have to say I am not familiar with the Tube, so I just don't know at this point.

flamingsnot 2008-12-04 21:42
Re: Nokia N97 Announced
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 246703)
That was quick! I can't really determine anything. Hard to say they are widgets in any way uniquely drawn from NIT and not just generic J2ME widgets. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widget_engine
What I found unique about the homescreen widgets in the NIT was that they were movable about the screen and easily selected on or off by the user, and I can't tell that from the N97 video.

There really isn't enough there for me to say how much "scheme and programme" there is. And I have to say I am not familiar with the Tube, so I just don't know at this point.
Well if you see the original post there's a link to a video demonstration that I put there, you can get a pretty good idea of the interface from that video (it's the quicktime movie) :)

lm2 2008-12-04 21:55
Re: Nokia N97 Announced
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 246577)
[Citation needed] :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 246592)
You are vaguely appealing to authority, but then you can't cite the authority.
And here I thought that I was the only professional philosopher around here. Boy o boy do informal fallacies warm my cockles!


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