Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Er, sorry, I was addressing the "Nokia didn't let you use the information at first" rather than the "Nokia used the accelerometers for image stabilization". ;)

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Why would you need any more than 5 Megapixels, anyway? When my old 5 MP camera died, I bought the modern day equivalent, and 8.1 MP model, and promptly turned the resolution down to 5 MP. If you aren't going to make the photo into a poster, 5 MP is fine.

I'd rather the N900 NOT have a highres camera. I'd rather have a camera designed to be a good CAMERA, and simply have a webcam on the N900.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Only if you consider the touchscreen primarily as an input device. For output purposes certain types of applications (eg microb, modest, osso_pdfviewer, fbreader, maemo mapper) would definitely benefit from having a few extra pixels, especially in non-fullscreen mode.

The current pixel density isn't too high either - there have been devices with higher DPI for a while, including some from Nokia (E60, E70, N80 & N90) and 1000x600 at the same physical dimensions would approximately match the DPI of the Neo/Freerunner displays which are still quite readable.

I appreciate the cost reasons for keeping 800x480 and can live with it, but I would also be willing to pay a premium for higher resolution.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. :)

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Hm, anyone know what exactly drivers/misc/cmt-speech is?

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

So the N900 can say "Not so fricken hard!" when you get a little too aggressive with the stylus. ;)

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

CMT may be "Cellular Mobile Telephone", at least that's the best (Google assisted) guess we came up with the other evening.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

So your N900 can phone you up and say "You left me on the bus. According to the onboard GPS I'm at the following location... I'll phone you again if the accelerometer says anyone has picked me up."

Roger.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

It looks like this driver was for a cell-phone. Maybe the next device will be a phone or Nokia is working on other Linux-based cell-phones for which they require these drivers. Maybe they're going to use Symbian on normal phones and Linux on smartphones in the future?

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Yes, HS*PA (data only)

There is already little to no difference anymore between 'tablet' and 'smartphone', and I only see these growing more towards each other. The RX-51 will have features smartphones tradtionally had. HSPA+ allows all-IP, LTE is all-IP. The only difference is one based on (wrong) perception such as the keyboard or the OS. But with smartphones getting full keyboard or touch-based keyboards, and with Maemo OS reaching adolescence and Symbian becoming open source and both using Qt those differences fade as well.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

and slap a video out on the smartphone and one have a nice computer (optionally, build in a projector system that can do the task for a 19" display, given the right surface).

hell, take a look at the redfly, its basically a larger keyboard and screen for smartphones...

(altho a N800 with font size 20 and a bluetooth keyboard works wonders for typing forum posts ;))

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

From other comments looks like Nokia is interested in Linux based phones. It is highly probable it prepares whole line of devices which will depend on this kernel but no one of them will have all features provided by software.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

I have been pointing my Apple Remote at my N800 and wished to skip to the next song in Vagalume a few times. So, a normal IR (not IrDA) receiver that can "read" all kinds of IR remotes might be nice. But probably not going to happen ;)

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Well, being the broken record that I am, I will point you here. So maybe, like me, you will no longer have to point at anything. Except, of course, the occasional sh*tty driver. And for your situation it may only cost you $45.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Yes, this would be nice. But it's also possible to get a Wiimote (they're simply Bluetooth HID devices) and use it for a remote control. It also has more buttons than the spartanic Apple Remote.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Remember what Jaaksi said in OSiM 2008:

"-- data is what we are talking about here today. -- And actually what I said already in my discussion -- these were some of the highlights, so were are still working. This is not sort of -- an announcement of the fifth generation." ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PRVkUe5tzE

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

(This is not a response to any past post that I know of, it is a thought I had today regarding the next NiT and it's associated soft/firmware.)

I saw this...



... Couldn't this concept be better realized with a combination of hardware and firmware in the next tablet?

That is:

Leave the form factor the same as the N810 however, when the tablet is held upright as in fig. 4, the active application auto-rotates and reduces to take up the top half of the screen. An on screen keyboard appears on the bottom half (if selected as a user preference :cool: ).

Rotate the beast back to landscape mode, as in fig. 6, and the app re-sizes to take up the full screen. If the screen is tapped in a text field and the keyboard is closed, an on screen key board pops up a la the N800.
When the keyboard is open, it behaves as the N810 does now.

***

Some variant of auto-rotation would have to be included in RX-51 for me to take notice. It would also have to run at a fast enough clock, for it to be effective.

Lag time sucks. Just ask an owner of a new Blackberry. :eek:

The ability to easily manage multiple streams in a household WLAN and near real time HD video streams via the WWweb, will be what is expected by the public from the next "must have" device.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Eheh. That keyboard looks 100% like the one in E71. So I'd first look at which model of E-series this might apply to. Also, just because of schematics, doesn't mean the implementation(s) look like the schematics. For the patent doesn't include the keyboard as being part of the patent it is merely used here in the example. Perhaps for good reason, perhaps not.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

I have to add that the Cellular Mobile Telephone Speech driver is enabled in the RX-51 configuration only... Do your math. ;)

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Regardless, this was the point...

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Well maybe the keyboard on the N900 will be slide-out like the one in N97? I mean, the N97 while Symbian-based is also based upon aspects learned from the N8x0. Why would a N900 not learn the (same) things from N8x0, N97, or a superset of these? It already does: HS*PA, HD camera...

But then, I own a E71 soon, and the thing I saw I didn't like about it was the size of the screen. Besides that its very good with its own keyboard and such. So it'd make sense if evolution of E71 would improve on this aspect.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Interesting mechanical design but why would build a more complex mechanical design which doesn't change the size of the device but results in a smaller keyboard. IMHO the N810 keyboard is much more user friendly and has fewer moving parts.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

defensive patenting?

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

This.
Probably a ton more patents like this cooking over there in Espoo.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Could well be or perhaps it's the result of how the problem solved is stated. For example if someone wanted to get a bigger screen on a phone that already has a small keyboard they might consider that design. The best designs don't come from adding a feature they come from considering the applications in their totality. Design to benefit the user not just to add a feature.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

an accelerometer could be used for image stabilisation, auto-rotation of the screen, navigation dead-reckoning when GPS loses fix (or to save power in GPS by allowing chipset to sleep), games and gimmicks, HID (shake to control media player) etc.

on the subject of the webcam in the N800, it's poor probably for two reasons, one is the tiny lens, 2nd is the tiny sensor. I wonder if the circuitry could be re-purposed for something more useful, such as an additional USB port or high-voltage taser-like probe :-)

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

What aspects of the N97 do you think were learned from the N8X0?

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Maemo has been a Nokia touchscreen research project. The sliding keyboard, while not being 100% like the N810, still resembles it. The interface looks very much like [a] clone of Maemo although its way of dealing with applets is far better (other OSes and DEs have progressed in this before). The cry for disk space you can see back as well; with a 32 GB on-board. That might be the best of both the N800 and N810 SDs options. But I believe the development of N900, N97, and other touchscreen devices is somewhat paralel. One reason is because they all share some similarities (including TV out, touchscreen, ..). But also because of this news.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

I can't follow your reasoning.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Before the N97, there had already been a mid-ranged Symbian S60 model with the compass called the 6210 Navigator. Sorry; its a commody feature that, like TV-Out and 5mpx cameras, will be diffused throughout Nokia's lineup to enable connectivity to services that would best take advantage of such hardware.

Applets, or widgets, have been a main part of Symbian S60 since FP1; and pushed quite heavily with the Widsets initiative months ago.

The touchscreen is similar, but the usability of it is where it draws some from the lessons of Maemo, that's about it.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

In a related note about as could be the new tablet, Stskeeps and myself were looking to the mce header files for Fremantle, and we found this new interesting code about orientations:
Also this could be interesting but not related to orientations:
Mce should be replaced with OHM in Fremantle though.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Seems reasonable. Some Nokia phones do not ring while put face down on a table.

While the other call states are as follows, the case should be fairly obvious for everybody:

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

I see Maemo as a Nokia research project. Symbian is open sourced because of Nokia's experience with Linux and open source; IOW Maemo. Trolltech is also related to that.

Nokia E90 is landscape yes, but totally different resoltion. Nokia E90 keyboard has nothing to do with this. It is ancient stemming from older Nokia 9000 series. Its just a Nokia Communicator rebranded as E-series. It is a clamshell; the Pandora will be a bit like this because its also a clamshell. But with touch. Like Sharp Zaurus c7x0/c1000/c3x00... but a lot faster.

The N97 keyboard slides out, and if its slided out it makes the device stand in the same way the N8x0 series does.

Applets are very useful for user customized, default information gathering. On Maemo they've experimented with this as well, and will build upon this further in both devices. The 770 and N8x0 are Nokia's first commercial devices with touch screen capabilities. It'd be unwise to not learn from these experience, while at the same time learn from competitors who also use touch screen capabilities (so you will see things inspired by e.g. iPhone as well).

But not on-board a lot + microSD, or on-board not much but with SD. So that is what can be learned from N800 -> N810.

Their target release date are 2009Q1 and 2009Q2. N900 learns from N8x0 but also aspects you've never seen in Nokia Internet Tablets but with which Nokia has a lot of experience in their smartphone lines. Now, if you take into account the N97 similarities. Would you argue the N97 looks more like N96, or more like N8x0? To me, it seems like its definetely gotten aspects from both.

The name 'NIT' is abandoned. Qt will be a bridge between Symbian and Maemo. Symbian is open sourced. I believe there is a lot of reflection back and forth internally, and it won't become less. We'll see with Harmattan brining the official Qt bridge. The question is rather: how much is it now.

Yes, that is stated in the article, but that is also their primary navigation device. So that aspect is learned from that (it is worth the price). But it is new all these devices will contain TV-Out.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Huh? The N97 display shape and resolution is more similar to E90 than to the N8x0. So what that the e90 keyboard stems from the communicator series? The N97 keyboard is more similar in configuration to the e90 (and the communicators) than to the N8x0.


I haven't seen that. I saw a hinge that tilts the display relative to the keyboard; not a keyboard that slides out and stays in the same plane as the display. Can you link to a video or something that shows this?

Applets are not unique to Maemo, and you didn't answer how Maemo and N97 "deal" with applets in the same way.

Well, this is wrong. The 7710 was Nokia's first commercial device with touch screen capabilities. (And the Tube was developed one generation before the N97.) But I'm glad you said that because (sorry to be blunt) I am beginning to surmise that you don't follow the themes of technology development rather than I am missing something. I appreciate your comments. A socratic method is a good way to test a hypothesis.

If interested in learning more, you may want to read Steve Hamm's new book on the history of portable computing.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Answering eiffel:

> (3) Tell us as something substantial about the form factor.

We don't especulate about future devices. This is what device announcements are made for.

Also, why developers or community members need to worry about anything before a beta SDK is out? Of course I see reasons for interest, but not for the pre-panic seen in some threads lately. Note that no Nokia representative has said a single thing about future hardware, so any fears or conclusions are made on top of pure forum speculation.


> Something like this would be enough: "There will be a device with a
> keyboard. There might also be a tablet, and might also be a device
> with a form factor not seen before. They will all be pocketable,
> although larger than a cellphone." And dammit, if there's not going
> to be a D-pad, just tell us will you, and let us get on with coping with
> it. Obviously all this stuff has already been decided. Can't you just let
> a junior staffer leak the concept video? It seemed to work well for the
> 5800.

Ditto. And in addition to that let me remind once more that Maemo is a platform being developed to support several devices. The architecture it is already quite flexible and this flexibility is what allows any device program to think in different form factors, hardware keys and etc.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

In this tread it is suggested that the Maemo 5 will be a purely touch UI. I don't think it's far fetched that the screen will be multitouch.

The advantage of current resistive screen is that it is accurate and can be used with a stylus. That doesn't really matter if the UI is designed for use with fingers, so it would be logical to switch to capasitive screens that supply multitouch.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

It's not and it wont be. That was unclear, what I mean to say is: the touchscreen is resistive. :)

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Which is what? :D

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Resistive is not capacitive and that means it's not multi-touch.

Re: What we do realistically see in the RX-51
 

Quim, first I apologise to you personally for having treated you as the "public face of Maemo Software". Jaffa pointed this out and he's right. Nevertheless it's inevitable, just as we hold the waiter responsible for our food even though it's the chef who cooks it.

Sure, we're not asking you to speculate. We're asking Nokia to announce some information.

Developers worry because we need to know that we won't be wasting our time developing. I got burned once, spending over a thousand hours on an open source project written in the Eiffel programming language (that's where my username comes from) before the compiler vendor effectively ruined the niche.

Developers worry because there are hints of radical change in directions that might possibly make the N900 un-useful to us. There are also some wonderful things that could happen, but until we see them we can't develop for them.

If Nokia wants a successful open source product, they need to be much more open. No two ways about it. As that's not happening, I'm going to use my N800 until it breaks, but develop for Android for the future because it will provide a good choice of devices.

It's a sad but necessary decision for me. Back in July several people said "Just wait for the Maemo summit, something awesome is going to happen" but it didn't. There's still nothing more than "Trust us". No way. Trust has to be earned, not blindly demanded.

Regards,
Roger