Re: The cohesive community: from talking to doing
 

We are dysfunctional! Hear us gripe!

:D

Re: The cohesive community: from talking to doing
 

It does seem irrelevant if you put it that way, but it probably became part of the conversation when it was pointed out that Nokia's decisions and posturing is becoming an impediment to attracting participation in open source directed at the maemo platform. It seems, from my reading, as if it turned from a rallying 'how?' to a more boggled 'how?' It seems to have had the effect of questioning whether everyone's time and efforts are going to be worthwhile. Eiffel's comments appear to strike the nail on the head with his comments. Mind you, I'm also cynical by nature and I'm very happy when I'm proven wrong--but it seems as if that doesn't often happen. How do you or anyone else respond to that?

I'm not sure that I agree. Can you explain the problem that this illustrates? Are you suggesting that Nokia is completely irrelevant? What can you suggest to get people more focused on the applications for maemo and less on Nokia's involvement?

Re: The cohesive community: from talking to doing
 

"Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing." - Data

Re: The cohesive community: from talking to doing
 

Alright, johnx was kind enough to step up and perhaps push this in a more productive direction (Thanks, johnx!).

This thread is that it's already been poisoned (probably beyond recovery), and the format may not serve so well as good ideas tend to get lost in the noise. So, he put together a wiki page.

Ideas should be much less prone to become lost in the noise, and individual issues can be addressed more directly. The wiki-format also serves to curb flamey-discussion. ;)

The sections on the page are only placeholders, a better organization will come when we have more problem/solution pairs to sort.

Re: The cohesive community: from talking to doing
 

Nokia wants to talk about community. The community wants to talk about Nokia. Cats and dogs start living together.

Re: The cohesive community: from talking to doing
 

(I hesitate to encourage more off-topic discussion here, but a separate thread is likely to lead only to more vitriol and little that could be called productive.)

What decisions, exactly? What "posturing"? Nokia certainly isn't there yet, but they've made great strides from where they started, and these things take time

Far from being helpful and productive, the angrier discussions just serve to widen the divide between the community and its goals and Nokia, and hurting the people who are already on our side (you know, the ones who take time out from their busy schedules to participate in discussions like these).

It may make us feel better spend so much time ranting and raving about how much at fault Nokia is, but in the end it's counter-productive to our real goals.

Define "it" for me. What has questioned the value of everyone's time and efforts? Quim's post? I don't see it.

Eiffel's comments address a separate issue that isn't on-topic here.

Of course not, nothing's that black and white. :) Nokia is a significant part of the community, but every one of the community's problems doesn't immediately come back to Nokia, its behaviours, and its decisions. Pretending that it's all Nokia's fault and willfully ignoring our own issues doesn't help us to build a stronger community.

Being mindful of what's on- and off-topic here. Perhaps johnx's wiki page will also help.

Re: The cohesive community: from talking to doing
 

GA, as much as you disagree with some content, there is value in venting. Better here than, say, the wiki. ;)

Re: The cohesive community: from talking to doing
 

Certainly, but after a certain point you have to move beyond venting to doing something about it, which is where this community often falls down, and addressing that is largely the point of this thread. . . .

Re: The cohesive community: from talking to doing
 

...agreed.

Re: The cohesive community: from talking to doing
 

Well, I'll state the obvious here just because it seems to be getting glossed over or forgotten.

A software community, no matter how good, and I mean guru good, cannot change hardware. Maybe I/we chose the wrong thread to talk about such things, and for that I apologize. But Nokia hardware decisions currently seems to be the elephant-in-the-living-room. But okay, we/you can talk about software UI, community, whatever. Sounds fun.